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- [00:00]
Credit Karma
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- [00:15]
Shiptoshi
You can't just jump into the fad, especially if there's a monetary gain, without fully understanding the repercussions of it. A lot of people think that they're just going to throw a hundred dollars into a token and they're going to wake up a millionaire. You know that's not the case all the time. And if that's that is the case, you also then got to take into consideration liquidity to market cap ratio.
- [00:42]
Zion Representative
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- [01:11]
Nijen Sanasi
Ready to take the leap?
- [01:12]
Zion Representative
Explore Zion today at Zion.bernt.com we all.
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Consensus Representative
Want to believe in something. In Chinese, belief also means trust. We want to trust our systems and each other so we can build a future beyond what we know.
- [01:26]
Shiptoshi
Trust.
- [01:27]
Consensus Representative
Join us at Consensus Hong Kong, where belief becomes real.
- [01:31]
Nijen Sanasi
Hello and welcome to Markets Daily, hosted by Nijen Sanasi. On this show, we navigate the currents shaping the crypto markets, providing insights against the broader financial landscape. So whether you're actively trading or simply fascinated by the volatility that is the crypto markets, this show is your compass to understanding what's happened, where we are and where we're going. On today's show, CEO and founder of Squid Grow Shiptoshi joins me. Shiptoshi, nice to see you.
- [01:56]
Shiptoshi
Hey, nice to be back again. Thank you for having me on. I'm looking forward to our conversations.
- [02:01]
Nijen Sanasi
Of course, the last time we saw you was at Consensus in Austin, Texas, and a lot has happened in the market since then. So let's just set the stage. What are you watching as we head into 2025?
- [02:13]
Shiptoshi
Keeping my eye on blue chips mostly. Obviously, it's hard to ignore Bitcoin, but I think, you know, more of my attention is, you know, pull towards Ethereum. I don't see Ethereum as having the movement yet that, you know, Bitcoin has. So I think there's quite a a lot of Runway left. And when it comes to Bitcoin, I Think, you know, the masses would be lucky to maybe get a 2 or 3x tops in this bull on Bitcoin. Whereas Ethereum, it's, you know, 3x is a lot more achievable. You know, it's, it's down from its all time high of last bull market so and it hasn't yet broke that all time high. So I think that you know, it's got some movement. So I'm paying very close attention to Ethereum and also Ethereum Classic.
- [03:07]
Nijen Sanasi
I want to talk about Ethereum Classic in just a second, but let's stick to Ethereum Ether. There have been some folks have come on this show recently that said, you know what, Ethereum might be dead in the water. They have so many competitors right now, it's not seeing the same traction when it comes to price movement as Bitcoin. Talk to me a little bit more about your thesis there.
- [03:28]
Shiptoshi
Well, I mean Ethereum is generally a slow mover. You know, when it comes to the market like, you know, it kind of always trickles down. It starts with Bitcoin and trickles down from there. And yeah, you know, Binance BNB has, has had good movement so far. Solana is doing its thing. But you know, Ethereum is just so vast and there's just so many projects that are built on top of it and it's just, there's a lot going on there. I, I, I think like all these cycles previously it's been a little slow mover and I think it just hasn't been primed and popped yet. And you know, I would disagree with anybody that says that, you know, it's, it's dead.
- [04:06]
Nijen Sanasi
You mentioned Ethereum Classic just now. Talk to me about what you're watching there. I, why are you paying such close attention to Ethereum Classic when so many people are looking at the Solanas of the world?
- [04:20]
Shiptoshi
You know, I'm not going to call this a kept, a good kept secret, but Ethereum Classic always follows Ethereum. So Ethereum moves first and then Ethereum Classic follows. So if you're, if you're a perpetual trader and you're trading features with leverage on the centralized exchanges, if you have your Ethereum chart up and you're ready to hit the go button on Ethereum Classic. If you see Ethereum move one way or another, there is a delay in Ethereum Classic responding. But it's kind of like getting a glimpse into the future, you know which direction it's going. And anytime that I've ever been paying attention to Ethereum and Ethereum Classic. I've never seen it not follow along. So it's kind of like, you know, you get your lottery ticket a little, you know, lottery ticket numbers before the numbers are drawn, in my personal opinion. So I've made a lot of good money following that. And that, that little advice with following ETH and Ethereum Classic was actually given to me from my previous cmo Dane Cryptoblast.
- [05:21]
Nijen Sanasi
Let's talk about Solana for a second. We've had, we've been taking a look at predictions for 2025. Some of the asset managers are predicting that Solana hits, I think I read a thousand dollars this morning. I read Bitwise's recent report. They say solana could hit $750 in 2025. I know we just Bitcoin and Ethereum, but are you, you said you're dabbling in the Solana ecosystem.
- [05:46]
Shiptoshi
Yeah, I just, I just started. Yeah, I just started dabbling. I'm kind of kicking myself in the butt because I, you know, had every opportunity, like a lot of other people, to get in super early, and now it's, it's starting to make its moves. But, you know, in the early stages of Solana, they had a lot of outages on, on their, on their blockchain, and that was kind of a turnoff for me. You know, you want, you want some consistency and reliability. And I think now they're, they're sorting it out. A couple weeks ago, they had a, some downtime, I believe, on Solana, but they, they rectified it relatively quick. So it's come a long way from like being down for hours. But, you know, it's one of those things that there's a lot of volume and there's a lot of liquidity over there. There's also a lot of, like, meme tokens popping up over there. I mean, we, we got peanut, you know, I mean, that came out of nowhere and listed on Binance and, you know, I guess they're listing on Coinbase or maybe have listed on Coinbase. I mean, there's just a lot of liquidity over there. So naturally, you know, as people are making money, you know, in a certain area, you know, that money starts migrating to other chains, other tokens and so on and so forth. And that's kind of how the bull goes. But Solana is definitely making some noise now with their cheap fees, their fast transaction times, and, you know, the revolving door of these tokens that just keep on, you know, printing millionaires. So it's a very thrilling time to be overseeing, so to speak, you know, right now. So pretty, pretty cool. Like I said, I wish I would have got into Salana a little earlier but you know, it's still relatively early and you know, if those predictions come true of say $1,000, well, you know, this could be another Ethereum, right? So in 2020, Ethereum was trading between 300 and $400. And now Ethereum, you know, is substantially higher than that. So this could be one of those situations where you can get into something that's going to go the distance and go a long way and you can get into it relatively early. I just wish I would have taken it a little more seriously earlier on.
- [07:53]
Nijen Sanasi
But I think a lot of people wish that, you know, there was a time, I think Weslana was at around the same price it is today and then it went all the way down below $10. And I think a lot of people are kicking them for, for not getting in then. But such, such is life. We move on. We live and we learn.
- [08:11]
Shiptoshi
Lesson learned.
- [08:13]
Nijen Sanasi
Exactly. Well, speaking of the salon ecosystem, Pengu launched yesterday. I know everyone was very excited on, on X about it. It had a massive launch. I want to tell you the market cap, but I can't remember it right now and I don't want to get it wrong. Were you following that? Like, do you follow?
- [08:31]
Shiptoshi
Yeah.
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Nijen Sanasi
Do you follow these launches on a day to day?
- [08:34]
Shiptoshi
Not on a day to day. I hold some NFTs and I haven't yet claimed my tokens yet, but if I remember correctly, it got up into the 6 billion range before it had some fallback. I know from the Binance listing announcement that it was launching at a price of 0.05 with their supply that would put them launching at about a 4.4 billion market cap. And you know, it came in hot and heavy but you know, as in most cases when you give airdrops and free tokens and stuff, you know, people start, you know, selling and pulling profit on the pumps on the, on the way up. And that's exactly what happened I think right now with Pangu. They are, we are waiting to find the floor, right? People are still claiming their tokens. Excuse me, in Buddy Pendulums, Pangu is the token. But I think right now we're waiting to find the floor and you know, I am watching it a little, a little closely. It's a massive company. I mean they've got their, their little pudgy penguins in like all the superstores, you know, Walmart, so on and so forth. They've done Crazy things with their NFTs. I was just reading the other day that one sold for like $400,000. So you know, maybe they can spark the NFT run as well. But a lot of attention going on with them, massive company and obviously multi billion dollar company and I think they're going to go relatively high and market cap as far as the token goes. You know, I think that, you know, we can see them in the 10, 15, 20 billion plus market cap range with the type of people that are associated with that, with that company and just the notoriety that they have. So you know, it's still kind of, still kind of early. Anything can happen.
- [10:25]
Nijen Sanasi
Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I know the last time we spoke you said you don't give, give advice but for folks who are just getting into the crypto space, they're becoming interested because of all of the fanfare that's happening around a lot of these tokens if they received that airdrop. I mean, give us some advice from your experience like what should you do with a token when you receive an airdrop other than just sell right away?
- [10:47]
Shiptoshi
Well, the first thing, I mean there's a lot of airdrops that occur in the space, right? So the first thing is you have to verify the source of the airdrop in regards to pudgy penguins and go to their official website, their official X page. They have their, well if you go to their X page you can go to their official website and then on that website when it's loading or when it actually loads because right now I think it's under a lot of load, so it hasn't been loading. There is a claim page there and you connect the wallet and you're able to claim your tokens. Now in regards to what you do with, you know, those tokens, whether you hold, you sell, you pull some profit that's completely, you know, up to the individual. If you're in the United States, just be mindful that, you know, that's definitely qualifies for long, for short term capital gain tax. You know, you were just gifted a large amount of money and you know, if you realize those gains without holding them for longer than a year, you're going to be, you know, subjected to, you know, high tax, 40%. So you know, it just kind of depends on, you know, your individual situation. You know, so I can't really advise what somebody should do if they've received airdrop. But I think that right now we're pudgy. Cleveland is, you know, we're looking to find the floor. So I, I still think there should. There could be some upward momentum. But again, that's not financial advice.
- [12:12]
Nijen Sanasi
I mean, I know you don't. You don't give advice per se, but I think those are great tips. Understand the tax implications, understand where the tokens are coming from, verify that the project is legitimate, and then do your own research and make your own choices. I think that those are the perfect tips for someone who's receiving an airdrop or who wants to participate in an ecosystem in the way that we just spoke about. Now, we know that you're following blue chip projects, but if we kind of broaden the conversation out and talk about the ecosystem more generally. What are you anticipating for 2025? What are maybe some of your predictions?
- [12:48]
Shiptoshi
What are you looking forward to in 2011? When I came into the market with bitcoin, I believed that bitcoin was private. And this is true to an extent, up until the point somebody gets a hold of your wallet, address, verifies that it's you, and then although your identity is not attached to it, they can follow you up and down the blockchain wherever you transact. So we're starting to see bigger people in the space with massive following, like Tucker Carlson and some of the giants that crypto really isn't that private. And where I'm going with this is I think that privacy is going to start, you know, is going to start taking front center stage. I think more and more people are realizing that, you know, crypto is not private and we should have privacy in crypto. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of privacy, but I think a narrative for, you know, 2025 is probably going to be privacy. Also, we've got a new administration coming in. I was in Bitcoin Nashville when Trump spoke, and, you know, he mentioned bitcoin reserves. So that's a huge thing. I think, you know, for, you know, this upcoming year 2025, I think we can, you know, start looking forward to maybe some guidance from, you know, governments on operating cryptocurrencies. I think that's something that we actually lack. I know from a builder in the space. Like, we don't have true guidance. There's just a gray area, and we rely on the opinions of our attorneys to, to guide us properly. But there's not really something black and white where they can go to, like, something written and say, okay, well, we can't do this, so let's, let's do it this way.
- [14:33]
Nijen Sanasi
Yeah. I mean, just based on the conversations I've had, I think that you're right. I think that that privacy conversation will continue into 2025 as people start to understand the space more, as we start to get more clear regulations, hopefully in the United space. I think that you're absolutely right. Privacy will be one of the driving factors there. Now I have to ask you, I think I asked you similar when we saw each other in Texas, but probably around a different holiday or gathering. But the holidays are coming up and I know that for people who have been in the space for a long time, their friends, their family, to be asking them about crypto or what to invest in, how to get started. What do you tell people who are asking you that, who know absolutely nothing about crypto. How are you planning to engage over the holidays? Maybe people can get some, some tips from you.
- [15:18]
Shiptoshi
Well, majority of my circle is all involved in crypto at this point. But you know, I think I, I have a couple people that, you know, aren't, haven't yet embraced crypto because they don't understand it. So when the crypto conversation starts coming up, obviously as the mainstream starts talking about Bitcoin, Ethereum, the celebrities start launching their coins and doing this and that, you know, more and more people will take notice and try to get involved. And you know, a lot of people rush into the market not really knowing what they're doing. They lose money, they buy rugs, you know, so how I generally had the conversation when somebody asked about crypto, crypto is I asked them, what's your understanding on crypto? Right, We've got to establish just a basic understanding first. And after they have the basic understanding, we start talking about, you know, I'm a big advocate in self custody, obviously with centralized exchanges, not your keys, not your crypto. So I explain the differences between holding your crypto on a centralized exchange and holding them in a self custody wallet. Obviously it's a little easier to get into the crypto market on exchanges and that's generally how the normies do it because you can just hook up your debit card, you can buy your crypto and you can convert that to whatever you want. But you know, I try to establish that, you know, the difference between it, not your keys, not your crypto. I bring up FTX and what happened with that debacle and just try to give a clear understanding. And then, you know, that's kind of around the time that I would just kind of push them out the door. You know, I, I really tried not to give financial advice. It almost cost me A very good friendship at one point in time because I actually advised one of my friends to sell the position and sold position for, you know, in his words, life changing money. And you know, had he held a little longer, he really would have had that generational wealth and it almost cost me a friendship. So I really try hard, even in my personal life not to give advice on how to transact, how to hold, when to pull profits any longer. But, you know, that's generally how I start the conversation. I just try to give them a true understanding. Because when I was doing due diligence on crypto, I didn't really truly understand the importance of Bitcoin until I actually read the white paper. And then I started reading online and seeing how people were receiving it and the speculative use cases for it. And you know, you can't just jump into the fad, especially if there's a monetary gain, without fully understanding, you know, the repercussions of it. A lot of people think that they're just going to throw $100 into a token and they're going to wake up a millionaire. You know, that's not the case all the time. And if that is the case, you also then got to take into consideration liquidity to market cap ratio. Like you got to be buying crypto assets that have liquidity. Because if you have substantial gains in a token, let's say, you know, you invest $1,000 and you know, that position eventually goes up to a million dollars, but that token only has, say, $200,000 in liquidity. Well, if you were to exit that position, 200 grand is all you're going to get. And you're not even going to get that because of the, the price impact effect. Right. So, you know, I just tried to do my best to thoroughly explain to people like the ins and outs of, of crypto before they actually start dabbling into it. And I always suggest, you know, doing research on YouTube, there's a lot of great information out there, a lot of good Google articles as well. So, you know, people need to just get an understanding of it. So hopefully I was helpful in my little rambles there. But I think that's just generally how I do it.
- [19:00]
Nijen Sanasi
Of course, I think those are great tips, right? It's not all about the headlines, you see, you really have to understand what you're getting into. You have to be thoughtful about it. And it's not, I mean, lots of people call it a crypto casino. And a lot of these memes out there, I guess, are similar to some Some casino games and some of this casino psychology, but you're not going to get rich overnight if it sounds too good to be true.
- [19:27]
Shiptoshi
Yeah. And there are instances where that does happen, you know. You know, you've heard the stories from, you know, early investors of Peanut that, like Peanut the squirrel, invested like $70 and they're sitting on millions of dollars. It does happen. Right place, right time. Nine times out of 10, it's not going to be you. You're gonna lose. And, you know, you know, I've got a lot of friends dabbling and so on right now on Pump Fun. And, you know, these projects are just. It's a revolving door, you know, I mean, you enter a position where my buddy said, like, you know, he threw, I think he said, like, 15 Solana into this token that was about to get bonded on Solana, which I guess is like, on Pump Fun. It's like you got to get to a certain market cap before you can actually, like, go mainstream and get off. Pumped up fun. But it was, you know, getting ready to bond. And right as he entered his position of his Solana play, it rubbed and it went to zero. And, you know, he started revenge trading, and he ended up costing him quite a bit of money. So there's a smart way to do it and a wrong way to do it. And when you're comparing it to casino, it's very similar because if you're at the casino and you lose some money, you get on that revenge trick where you're just trying to make sure that you recoup what it is that you've lost, not realizing that you're losing more and more money in the process, getting further, further away. So, I mean, I would definitely compare it to. Because, you know, it's, It's. It's all a gamble. That's all it is. Anybody that sits here and tells you that they know which direction it's going to go, I mean, obviously that's an educated guess, but as far as I'm aware, there's no time travelers that have been to the feature and can come back and tell us what the price is going to do. So, you know, I don't think that anybody can really guarantee gains on anything. And I would be very cautious of anybody making promises and setting expectations on price movement.
- [21:20]
Nijen Sanasi
So, Shytoshi, I think that's the advice, and those are the wise words that everyone needs to hear. As we head into 2025, it seems like it is going to be an exciting year ahead for crypto for a variety of different reasons. Shiptoji thank you so much for joining Markets Daily today. It was a pleasure speaking to you again and we hope to have you back on the show next year.
- [21:42]
Shiptoshi
Thank you for having me. It was a good chat.
- [21:45]
Nijen Sanasi
Awesome. And thank you to our audience for watching and following Markets Daily. If you like to watch the show, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Leave us a comment. We do read all of them. Unless you're trolling us, we're just going to ignore you. If you prefer to listen to the podcast, we're on the CoinDesk podcast network that is available on all podcast platforms. Subscribe Leave us a comment Give us five stars. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see you tomorrow.