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- [00:00]
A
The amount of people who want crypto who are actively interested in it or passively interested in it, as we say, far exceeds the amount of people who currently have it. So even though adoption is very healthy in apac, it's poised for some really significant growth.
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We all want to believe in something. In Chinese, belief also means trust. We want to trust our systems and each other so we can build a future beyond what we know. Join us at Consensus Hong Kong, where belief becomes real. We are one month away from Consensus Hong Kong, and we are taking a closer look at crypto in the region. COINDESK recently commissioned protocol theory to do some deeper research on adoption in apac. Alistair Rennie joins us now to unpack some of the key findings. All right, Alistair, the report's called the People Powered Crypto Movement in apac. I want to dive into the nitty gritty of it, but first I gotta ask you, what was the most surprising thing you found while you were putting this data together?
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A
I think there were three big surprises. Can I do three? Can I get away with three?
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B
Yeah, yeah, you could do three.
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A
Cool, cool. Okay. So I think the first one for me is that adoption in APAC is not being driven by a lot of the things that we maybe focus on a lot in the industry, things like institutional investment, regulation, even the tech itself. And some of our core narratives is being driven by these underlying beliefs in the future of crypto. And that I thought was not just surprising, but actually really inspiring. The second big surprise was the extent to which adoption is being led by emerging markets, countries like Thailand, India, Philippines, compared to developed markets like Japan and Singapore and Hong Kong. That was a big surprise. And the third big surprise was actually the amount of unmet demand that exists in this region. So the amount of people who want crypto who are actively interested in it or passively interested in it, as we say, far exceeds the amount of people who currently have it. So even though adoption is very healthy in APAC is poised for some a really significant growth.
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B
Well, tell me if this is true for you. I mean, you look at the data much closely than I can, but this sounds like the total opposite of what we're experiencing over in North America.
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A
Yeah, there are some real differences. And that, again, fits into that narrative of developed markets versus emerging markets. Right. What we typically see in emerging markets is there's this much bigger appetite for tech. Okay. So you've got folks in these countries are relying on tech a lot more and in different ways than a lot of folks in these more developed markets. There's some other really interesting differences as well. For example, in developed markets, including America, people's optimism financially is a lot lower in terms of the economy and their personal finances than it is in emerging markets, which is, I think is really, really interesting. Right, because we've got lower incomes in these markets and there's a whole host of, of different challenges. But I think the thing is in what we're seeing in more developed economies is that people have a lot more debt. So the amount of debt per person in developed markets is like orders of magnitudes, magnitudes higher than it is in emerging markets because they have less access to credit for. Apart from everything else, which is interesting in of itself when you talk about crypto and access to financial services, but essentially in emerging markets, they're less burdened by debt and they are much more positive about their. When you talk to people, like, based on the data, this is. When you, when you talk to people in emerging markets, they're really positive or they're much more positive about the future than folks in developed markets like America.
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B
You said that the beginning of this conversation that one of the driving factors of adoption was the underlying belief in the ethos. How do you measure that? Tell me a little bit more about that. That is really interesting.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And this was a big surprise to us. We weren't expecting this. We put it in, you know, we try and be, we try and, you know, think ahead and use some foresight when we, when we design this research. So we put questions in about, you know, what do you believe about crypto? We were expecting a different. We weren't expecting it to be the answers to play out the way they did. So apart from the fact that, you know, people say, yes, we can make money out of crypto as an investment, the 2 second most powerful drivers are, is this belief in crypto. There are two. There's belief in crypto and its role in the future of investment, and there is a belief that crypto is going to be used for everyday payments. So this is really interesting for two reasons. Right. I think maybe a lot of your listeners will say, sure, yeah, we already know that crypto is going to be a big part of the future of investment. But like, because we think about ETFs and all the institutional adoption. Right, but for the general population, right. This is not normal dinner conversation. Right. They don't sit around at dinner and breakfast talking about ETFs. The general population. They don't yet they still. There's like 50%, 50% of all adults in APAC believe that crypto is going to play a role in the future. So that's really powerful. And the other big belief was that 41% believe that crypto is going to be used for everyday payments. And I just find that fascinating because in all of the countries that we surveyed, and most in the world, crypto, it's not legal tender, right? So there's almost, I guess you could say a feeling of inevitability around that aspect of the future of, of crypto. So these are two really powerful beliefs. And what we see is those beliefs in some, in some countries have been able to overcome the lack of, or the lack of clarity in regulation or even places where it's been like, almost banned. We see that crypto is finding a way because it's been driven by this, by this underlying demand. So, yeah, that's really sparring, inspiring and very powerful. And I think the term we coined in the report was, and what we concluded was that when millions of people are united in this belief in something better, it's no longer a trend, right. It becomes a movement. And that's what inspired the title for the report.
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B
You mentioned that a lot of people surveyed don't have access to debt. You also mentioned that they really believe that this is the future, future of payments. And you know, when I hear that, it, it really highlights that this technology is solving real problems in these parts of the world. Whereas maybe in the parts of the world that over here at Coindesk, at least on the shows that I'm on, we talk a lot about North America. We've not yet found those real everyday problems that people can really look at this technology and say, like, hey, this is solving this thing for me. Or maybe we have and we have not yet articulated it in a way that resonates with our audience on the side of the world.
- [07:24]
A
Yeah, I think we see that a lot. Right. So in emerging markets, this wouldn't be the first time that we've seen a new technology start to leapfrog developed markets. Right. Like we saw it with, what's an example, mobile payments. M Pesa in Africa, right. No banks, no problem. We've got mobiles. Leapfrog, we're kind of seeing, it's not quite the same, but we're seeing something similar here. So there's a greater reliance on tech in these emerging markets than their appetite for new technology generally is much higher. It's not just crypto either. It's things like AI, it's things like augmented reality. We threw those in the research just for, you know, to get a. That comprehensive measure. So they're just, they're more likely to embrace new tech. To your point, a lot of the time is driven by a real need. And specifically for crypto, you can, you can see that, right? You see that because there's a much higher proportion of people using crypto for payments. There's a much higher proportion of people using it for remittances, which kind of makes sense because people in these emerging markets, there tends to be a much higher demand for international remittance. But even so, it's not like there isn't a demand for that in places like North America, Right? So yes, they are. They are using the utility to solve. To solve everyday problems, more so than we're seeing in developed markets.
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B
It's interesting, I know one part of the report you took a look at the appetite for tech versus the appetite for risk. And it really shows that the appetite for tech there is so prevalent and not so much the appetite for risk. Again, I say, you know, when we think about crypto now, the way we talk about it in North America is really like this risky thing. It's like, you know, a casino technology, people who have to have really big appetite for risk. And this is just proving that it doesn't have to be that. And there are different narratives that are unfolding all over the world. So I really appreciate you putting this report together. Before we wrap it up, tell me, if you want people to take one thing away from reading this report, what should it be? Oh, you already gave me three. You want to just pick one now?
- [09:30]
A
Okay, okay, well, here's, here's. I mean, what, when I look at it all, what it means to me is that, okay, look, in Web three, we're building and crypto, we're building so many amazing things, right? So much good technology. We innovate the technology, like every day. It feels. But the protocols enable the people, okay, but it's ultimately, it's the people who will decentralize those protocols, okay? So we can build whatever we want, but if we want to decentralize, which we have to do, right? If we, if we really want to transform finance, money, the Internet, then it needs, we need adoption. It needs to be decentralized. So we need. It's the people who are decentralizing this technology that's critical for the value of the networks that we build. So we need to talk to them, we need to listen to them, and we need to build for them.
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B
Alistair, thanks so much for chatting with me.
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A
You are very welcome.
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B
And to our audience who wants to dive even deeper into the progress being made in the Asia Pacific region at Consensus Hong Kong, you can join us by getting your Tickets today at consensus-hong kong2025coindesk.com.