Podcast Summary: Markets Outlook

Episode: Does The Future of Crypto ETPs Belong to Altcoins?
Host: CoinDesk
Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Markets Outlook features a conversation between host Dave (CoinDesk) and Steve from Canary Capital, diving deep into recent shifts in the U.S. regulatory landscape for crypto Exchange-Traded Products (ETPs), with a particular focus on the thriving market for altcoin ETPs. They discuss Canary’s first-mover advantage with XRP and other altcoin ETFs, broader industry trends, and the next wave of thematic and meme-coin products. The discussion offers both regulatory and product innovation insights, with memorable stories from ETF veterans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolving U.S. Regulatory Environment for Crypto ETPs

• Steve highlights a dramatic shift in regulatory attitudes, particularly at the SEC, which now embraces innovation, offers safe harbors, and encourages dialogue.
• The political pressure that historically slowed progress has subsided, allowing for actualization of long-anticipated changes.
• The introduction and rapid implementation of generic listing standards for crypto ETPs is described as unusually swift progress in Washington that has catalyzed product launches.

Notable Quote:

"What we have now is an SEC that really embraces innovation. They have offered, in a lot of cases, even safe harbors for any type of innovative product, which is fantastic. That's something that you would have never guessed would have happened."
— Steve, [02:26]

Supporting Points:

• The SEC’s approach is now more open and collaborative, especially when proposals align with core principles: “fair and orderly markets, investor protection, and capital formation” ([07:39]).
• The time from generic listing standards being proposed (June) to actual implementation (October) was surprising and marks a positive inflection ([03:19]).

2. Canary Capital’s First-Mover Advantage and Industry Partnerships

• Canary moved quickly to capture early market share once regulators gave the green light, launching several ETFs ahead of larger incumbents.
• This agility was attributed to both regulatory openings and partnerships with nimble organizations and service providers (e.g., US Bank, CoinDesk, liquidity providers).

Notable Quote:

"We've been able to move fast and get some filings out there ahead of others. And that wouldn't have happened in previous years when they were holding everybody up to go at once. And that really favors the large incumbents. It seems like they're really starting to favor those that are a little bit more nimble."
— Steve, [04:59]

3. The Historic XRP ETP Launch

• Canary’s XRP ETP set a record for day-one trading volume—$60 million—making it the top ETP launch, reflecting pent-up market demand.

Notable Quotes:

"Your XRP launch was, as measured by daily trading volume on day one, the number one launch of all ETFs and ETPs in the US market this year. That is an absolutely insane stat."
— Dave (host), [08:36]

"It should be applauded by the crypto industry, it should be applauded by the ETF industry, it should be applauded by, by the markets."
— Dave (host), [08:36]

4. The ETF Structure: Credibility, Agility, and Democratization

• Both speakers emphasize the ETF/ETP wrapper's reliability for tracking underlying crypto assets and providing transparent exposure for investors.
• ETPs allow for both long and short positions, regardless of the investor’s sentiment or the asset’s nature (even for meme coins or NFTs).
• The structure is described as democratizing and “battle-tested.”

Notable Quote:

"You can go long it if you like it, you can go short it if you don't like it. But you're going to get highly credible performance experience in utilizing the ETP to get exposure to, you know, those particular assets, whatever the asset is..."
— Dave (host), [13:57]

5. Looking Ahead: Thematic, Meme Coin, and NFT ETPs

• Steve sees continued evolution, including the launch of meme and NFT-oriented ETFs (e.g., Dogecoin), which reflects rising market demand for new types of exposure.
• The future will bring both successes and failures, especially among smaller or less sustainable tokens, but innovation is expected to flourish.

Notable Quote:

"The one that I'm most interested in seeing is some of the Meme COIN and some of the NFT ETFs coming because I think we've got a Doge ETF coming...I believe that's the future."
— Steve, [13:00]

6. Industry Wisdom and Team Reflections

• Steve credits his experienced team for Canary’s innovation, highlighting veterans like Kevin Farahay and their history of groundbreaking ETF projects (e.g., the first actively managed ETF holding asset-backed securities after the financial crisis).
• Patience, partnership, and regulatory persistence have been keys to success.

Notable Story:

"...if you think Bitcoin's bad, use a three letter word after CLOS blew up and say yeah, we'd like to do structured credit active in an ETF when at that time actively managed ETFs were not a thing. So we had to get by that hurdle. ...so you know we're used to being patient."
— Steve, [10:15]

Memorable Moments & Closing Thoughts

• Both participants stress the neutral utility of ETPs—they are tools for investment rather than endorsements of the underlying assets, enabling investors’ autonomy.
• Steve’s recurring refrain:

  "Doesn't mean that I'm bullish, doesn't mean that I'm bearish. It means that I'm creating an opportunity for people to do what they want to with their money and it's none of my business what they do with their money."
  — Steve, [00:00] & [14:57]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Regulatory Shifts and Generic Listing Standards: [01:46]–[04:59]
• First-Mover Advantage and Partnerships: [04:59]–[07:39]
• XRP ETP Launch & Market Impact: [08:36]–[09:31]
• Team Building and ETF Industry History: [09:31]–[11:39]
• Future Trends: Meme Coin & NFT ETPs: [12:52]–[14:57]
• Closing Reflections on ETPs as Investment Tools: [14:57]–[15:25]