Markets Outlook Podcast: “How Blockchain Adoption is Moving Beyond the ‘Crypto Casino’”

Date: October 24, 2025
Host: Jen Senassi (CoinDesk), co-host Andy Baer
Guest: Morgan Krepetsky (VP of Onchain Finance, AVA Labs)

Episode Overview

The episode explores the evolution of blockchain and crypto adoption beyond the speculative “crypto casino” phase, highlighting increasing institutional engagement, regulatory developments, and the real-world utility of blockchain and DeFi. Morgan Krepetsky provides an insider’s view on institutional perspectives, regulatory milestones, the crucial privacy narrative, and the future outlook for tokenization and stablecoins.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Institutional Engagement & Regulatory Developments

• Federal Reserve’s Payment Innovation Conference

  • Morgan shares that the conference showed a "convergence of regulatory engagement" and the movement from enforcement to collaborative dialogue between institutions and blockchain-native firms (01:41).
  • The “Skinny Master Account” is highlighted as a game-changer:
    • Would provide legally eligible institutions limited, direct access to Federal Reserve payment rails without becoming fully licensed banks (03:31).
    • Seen as a way to modernize payments and enable grater institutional adoption of stablecoins and tokenized assets.
    • Could allow stablecoin issuers to hold reserves at the Fed, increase settlement finality, and enable easier real-time tokenized asset transactions.

  Quote:
  “It opens the door for direct Fed connectivity and real settlement finality… a green light for the industry to move forward from an innovation perspective.”
  — Morgan Krepetsky (04:10)

2. Institutional Mindset Shift & Business Case Communication

• Past the Point of Proving Blockchain’s Merits:

  • Morgan notes a significant change post-election: banks and FMIs (Financial Market Infrastructures) are more eager to engage with public blockchains (06:01).
  • The conversation has shifted from technical explanations to highlighting business value—such as improved payments, treasury, remittance, and automated credit services.

  Quote:
  “It does feel like, frankly, since the election, there's been really a 180 from especially banks… about wanting to engage with and explore leveraging public blockchain network networks.”
  — Morgan Krepetsky (06:08)

• Trust and Relationship Building:

  • Personal connections remain vital in onboarding institutions—technical prowess alone doesn’t drive adoption (08:03).
  • Institutions increasingly accept that building everything in-house is not viable; collaboration and leveraging existing blockchain infrastructure is now seen as pragmatic (08:16).

3. The Privacy Narrative in Institutional Crypto

• Growing Emphasis on Transaction Privacy:

  • Institutions expect privacy for transactional and portfolio activity, much as they do in traditional finance (09:07).
  • The balance: enabling regulatory compliance without full public transparency.
  • Prediction of more purpose-built, permissioned blockchains optimized for institutional needs, potentially managed by industry consortia (e.g., SWIFT or NASDAQ), but connected to public liquidity and stablecoin networks.

  Quote:
  “I’d be hard pressed to see a world where BlackRock would be OK with VanEck seeing their flows, and vice versa… Solving the privacy question is extremely important.”
  — Morgan Krepetsky (09:16)

• Changing Attitudes on Public vs. Permissioned Chains:

  • The narrative has shifted in the last 12-18 months; purpose-built, semi-private chains are likely for wholesale finance, but public infrastructure remains important for liquidity and integrations (10:30).

4. Institutional DeFi Sophistication and Education

• Institutional “Degens” and DeFi Literacy:

  • There is a spectrum, from institutions just starting to learn about blockchain to those with sophisticated on-chain applications.
  • Many asset managers are “borderline degen participants” on a personal level, driving deeper organizational engagement with DeFi and tokenization (13:57; 15:03).

  Quote:
  “You’d be surprised how some institutions are fully up to speed, borderline degen participants... especially as tokenization or RWAs have increasingly converged with DeFi.”
  — Morgan Krepetsky (13:58, repeated emphasis at 15:03)

• Collaborative Approach & Domain Expertise:

  • Morgan underscores the importance of bringing in ecosystem partners and domain experts to tailor solutions for specific institutional needs (16:10).

5. The “So What” of Blockchain for Business

• Business Value First:
  • Focus is on articulating tangible business improvements—speed, settlement, regulatory clarity, and access to new markets—enabled by blockchain.
  • Ava Labs leverages a background in traditional finance to be trusted advisors to institutional clients, helping them issue and distribute tokenized assets (07:35).

6. The Future: Adoption Drivers Beyond Tokenization

• Beyond Tokenization:

  • While tokenization remains a foundational theme, Morgan also points to broader adoption driven by stablecoins and new user experiences.
  • Integration of blockchain into traditional distribution channels is bringing non-crypto-native users into the ecosystem, indicating growing product–market fit (18:23).

  Quote:
  “What that means is it’s net new users, net new capital… and something that will ultimately mark real world adoption and product market fit.”
  — Morgan Krepetsky (19:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Comment | |-----------|-------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41 | Morgan Krepetsky | “It’s really been great to see this convergence of regulatory engagement and really moving from enforcement to engagement…” | | 03:31 | Morgan Krepetsky | “The concept of the Skinny Master account would give legally eligible institutions limited but direct access to the Fed's payment rails…” | | 06:08 | Morgan Krepetsky | “Since the election, there’s been really a 180 from especially banks… about wanting to engage with and explore leveraging public blockchain networks.” | | 08:03 | Morgan Krepetsky | “Despite the fact that it’s Web3 and it’s tech, a lot of it still comes down to personal relationships…” | | 09:16 | Morgan Krepetsky | “I’d be hard pressed to see a world where BlackRock would be OK with VanEck seeing their flows, and vice versa…” | | 13:58/15:03| Morgan Krepetsky | “You’d be surprised how some institutions are fully up to speed, borderline degen participants…” | | 18:23 | Morgan Krepetsky | “Of course it’s tokenization… but listen, I’m excited to see as an extension of tokenization and stablecoins bringing more kind of non degens… bringing them on chain because they’re being offered net new or better products and services.” | | 19:13 | Andy Baer | “Your mom’s right. You are doing God’s work.” | | 19:16 | Morgan Krepetsky | “Thanks guys.” |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Fed Payment Innovation Conference & Skinny Master Account: 01:41 – 05:16
• Institutional Mindset & Business Case: 06:01 – 07:58
• Privacy, Public vs. Permissioned Chains: 08:16 – 11:19
• Degens in Institutions & DeFi Education: 13:57 – 16:10
• Future Outlook & Adoption Beyond Tokenization: 17:31 – 19:09

Tone & Style

The conversation is direct but optimistic, blending regulatory and technical details with a pragmatic, sometimes wry perspective. Morgan injects humor (“My mom says I’m doing God’s work”) and realism about the incremental yet accelerating pace of real-world adoption.

Summary

This episode underscores the maturation of the crypto and blockchain space as it moves beyond speculation toward substantive, institutional-grade adoption. Regulatory engagement, improved infrastructure (especially in payments and tokenization), and the forming of collaborative, multi-domain relationships are driving both credibility and practical use cases. Privacy remains a priority as institutional capital transitions on-chain, and the narrative is rapidly evolving: Institutions now see public and permissioned blockchain models as complementary rather than competitive, and the “real-world” phase of crypto is beginning in earnest. The next three to five years, according to Morgan, will see a diversity of new entrants—on both the retail and enterprise side—spurred by tangible improvements in financial products and services.