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A
Part of it is we have a great team, we work really hard, but I'll be honest, part of it is just crypto's such an amazing space and so it is so much less risky than the press, you know, kind of makes it seem. And, you know, so that's why I think, you know, getting exposure, you know, now versus five years from now is still so important.
B
Well, let's get to the first guest of the day, A pioneer who launched one of the first crypto funds in the U.S. back in 2013, Pantera Capital's founder and managing partner, Dan Moorhead. Dan, hello.
A
Hey, thanks for having me.
B
It's great for you to be here. How are you doing?
A
I'm great. It's a great conference.
B
It is a great conference. Now, Sam and I were just talking about markets this morning. Sea of Red out there. I love that we have you at the desk as our first guest because Pantera first launched its crypto fund in the US when Bitcoin was just at $65 a coin. You've been through the ups and downs. What should folks, advisors, institutions, and even retail traders who are looking at what's happening in the markets and trying to make sense of it before they maybe dive in for the first time, what should they be thinking about?
A
Sure. Hey, I'll admit if we sat down on New Year's Day 2025 and listed out all of the very positive developments that would happen with the SEC and Congress passing stablecoin legislation, all those things, and you would have said, hey, crypto up or down? I would have said up. And crypto was down 9% last year. I think it's a function of this, the hype cycle. Crypto is going to change the world. And anything that important gets a little too hypey. And it also does have a four year cycle. And when I got into this in 2011, someone mentioned it to me and I was like, hey, if we all know it's going to happen, it can't happen, right? But it does happen each time. And after Terra Luna and FTX and bitcoin was about 20,000, we did all our work on previous cycles and said bitcoin would peak at $117,452 on August 11, 2025. And, and it did that day, which is pretty freaky. But one of our LP said, hey, congrats, great call, but doesn't that mean it's going to go down tomorrow? I was like, oh no, this time's different.
B
You know, everyone says that this time's Different.
A
Unfortunately it wasn't different. And in hindsight I think that the factors were. There was a huge demand from two publicly listed things, ETFs and digital asset. Treasury companies combined for over 100 billion of net buying. And that drove the market up a lot. And it stopped in September and the market sat back. What I would say to your, the long answer to your short question is you got to view crypto as a multi decade trade and it's going to change the world, but not overnight. And so only invest as much as you can afford to withstand a pretty severe downdraft. But hold it, hold it for five or 10 years. Anyone that's ever held Bitcoin for four years has doubled their money or more. So, you know, just put on the amount you can hold and hold it.
C
Dan, you mentioned the ETFs. I think about the average price entering ETFs for Bitcoin as an example is about 7,000 higher than it is right now. So most people are kind of underwater at the moment. But I think to someone who has had to manage the volatility up and down and obviously in the great trajectory of up for you long term, how do you just day by day look at it? Is it something that you get down about or something you're just like, I know it's going to happen in just about when.
A
Yeah, so first couple cycles, totally sweating at every cycle. Now I've just seen this so many times and still so few people actually own exposure to this that we're still in the very earliest stages. So for people that are 7,000 price points underwater, you know, just hold it. Bitcoin as a proxy for our industry has almost doubled every year for the 13 years we've been doing this. You know, if you hang out for like six months, it should be back in the money and you know, five or ten years from now, way higher.
B
I got to ask you this because it was very popular on CoinDesk. I talked to Bitwise CIO Matt Hogan recently. He said Bitcoin could be six and a half million dollars within the next 20 years. And now that we're talking about long term holdings, you don't have to give us a projection if you don't want to. But what do you think when I say that?
A
Yeah, so that's the greatest part of the trick is like everyone coming up the even bigger number for their, you know, their price. We forecast three orders of magnitude already. I think you go up a fourth order of magnitude, but once you get there, you're Starting to get to be maybe 10% of assets in the world and things like that. So I think a number a little bit below 6 million gets you to $750,000 for Bitcoin, gets you to kind of starting to be real in the financial markets. It'd be hard to go another 10x from there.
C
Dan, I want to get your take on, you know, you guys had bitco just go public last week that you guys were early supporters of. You've been in circle, Amber Group, Gemini. It feels like the last six months has been an amazing time in public markets for crypto. Do you think we're going to see that trend continuing?
A
Well, part of the answer is the SEC had restricted IPOs for so long, and so we are seeing kind of a pent up, you know, pressure that's been building and so we probably won't have the same pace. Pantares had five IPOs in the last four months. We're probably not going to have five every four months going forward. But it is a huge milestone for our industry because all those investors like, you know, bitco, we've known those that team for 12 years. You know, circle probably 12 years figure also went public recently. I've known Mike Cagney for 25 years. All that money can now get recycled. And that's the huge thing. Once companies go public, the original investors can then get their cash back, reinvest in new entrepreneurs who are going to bring the next wave of innovation. And it's really important for our industry.
C
I just want to follow up because you guys do make so many investments. What are you looking at right now? What's interesting to you and who you're investing in?
A
Oh, so one of the things you mentioned, risk, volatility, crypto seems so crazy. In the normal real world, 70% of venture companies go broke, right? And then one or two do. Okay. And then one kind of helps you make two times, you know, your, your return. We've been doing this for 12 years. 86% of our investments have made money. It's crazy. And part of it is we have a great team, we work really hard. But I'll be honest, part of it is just crypto is such an amazing space and so it is so much less risky then the press, you know, kind of makes it seem. And, you know, so that's why I think, you know, getting exposure, you know, now versus five years from now is still so important.
C
I need to tokenize copy trading dam. That's all we need.
B
All right. Sam's going to Tokenize that. You mentioned digital asset Treasuries earlier and I want to talk a little bit about that. That was a big theme that came out of 2025. I know that Pantera closed more than $500 million in funding to launch a Solana digital asset Treas, the Solana company. There's this concern now that without real business operations and real business models, these digital asset Treasuries are going to start trading below their net asset value. How are you thinking about that? What would you tell people who have this concern who are watching digital asset Treasuries continue to track along?
A
Yeah, so I think the reason so many people put money into digital asset Treasuries is there a fairly asymmetric bet. There was a time some were trading at multiples of their net asset value, 3, 5, 8 times. And so if you could buy something at $0.100 on the dollar that might trade at 3 or $0.400, that sounds great. And I really think the downside is something like 80 cents on the dollar because once you get below that, it's economically rational for the bigger, stronger ones to buy up the littler ones at lower prices. And so there's been one or two happen so far, but I would say over the next 12 to 18 months you're going to see a lot of it. Where do very well run dads that have access to capital that can sell above net asset value. Buying ones that trade at 60, 70, 80 cents on the dollar because it's accretive. Right. If you're buying, you know, 100 units of Bitcoin for 80 cents, that's good. And so I don't really see it as a problem. Like it'll resolve itself, it'll take some time, but it really is something that can easily get resolved.
B
You see a consolidation?
A
I guess I do. We don't need, I don't know how many deaths. A couple hundred probably. Now we don't need a couple hundred ads, you know, we need a couple very well run ones. And it's, you know, it's like Wayne Huizenga rolled up all the video stores in America called Blockbuster and then did it again with waste management. You know, like someone's going to be the Wayne Huizenga of dads. Right. Somebody's going to like roll them all up and you know, you can have probably one or two really good bitcoin ones, one or two Solana ones, one or two Ethereum ones.
C
I even wonder about how much investors are pricing in the yield. Right. I think about the grayscale, Solana ETF. And they're giving, I think, 7% yield. So it's like if you're buying it at the right price, you're also locking in a return that is hard to even get on the market.
A
Yeah, you know, it's great point. You know, if you buy some at $0.80 on the dollar, goes to par, that's 25% extra return. Right. And so that's, that's why I'm not worried about DATs. When they're trading at a discount, they start looking pretty attractive. And you'll see that capitalism is very efficient and that's why there's so many debts. They were trading a huge premise. We had a ton of debts. At a discount, you're going to have less debts.
B
We started the conversation talking about 2013 when you launched the first crypto fund with Pantera. We're sitting here in 2026. It is really an amalgamation of crypto natives and institutions, massive institutions like blackrock. Did you think that we would get here so soon? I mean, I know it's over 10 years, but that's really fast when, when we, we look at how the speed at which this industry moves.
A
Oh, I agree, you know, it's come a long way. But the thing I would still stress is this is just the beginning. The median holding of institutional investors in cryptocurrencies and or blockchain venture is 0.0. Literally the majority have nothing. And so while there's a couple great companies like BlackRock that are in the space, Fidelity's been in this space since 2014. The oldest bank in America, bank of New York's been in this space. Most aren't, you know, and that's, that's why I'm so bullish, right, that all those people, they ultimately have to cover their short, you know, someday they have to buy crypto. And so, you know, it's coming and again, it might. It'll take 20 years, I think. This is a very long, very long trend. But it will happen. You know, it'll definitely happen in our investment lifetime.
B
Yeah. Dan, thanks so much for joining us to kick off the show. It was a pleasure having you at the desk.
A
Yeah, it's been a blast.
C
Thank you, Dan.
B
That was Pantera Capital's founder and managing partner, Dan Moorhead.
Podcast: Markets Outlook (CoinDesk)
Episode Date: February 5, 2026
This episode of Markets Outlook features an in-depth interview with Dan Morehead, founder and managing partner of Pantera Capital, one of the earliest and most successful crypto investment funds in the US. The discussion centers on Pantera’s investment philosophy, the evolution of the crypto market, the dynamics of digital asset treasuries, and long-term projections for Bitcoin and broader industry trends. The tone is practical, bullish, and seasoned by years of experience through crypto’s often dramatic cycles.
Dan Morehead offers a clear-eyed, optimistic view shaped by experience and data. The episode emphasizes long-term thinking, cautious optimism amid volatility, and conviction that crypto remains in its early innings — especially in institutional adoption. For investors, the primary takeaways are patience, resilience during downturns, and belief in the compounding impact of exponential trends in a rapidly evolving market.