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- [00:00]
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- [00:24]
Student
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- [00:54]
Jen Senassi
Hello and welcome to Markets Daily, hosted by me, Jen Senassi. On this show, we navigate the currents shaping the crypto markets, providing insights against the broader financial landscape. So whether you're actively trading or simply fascinated by the volatility that is the crypto markets, this shows your compass to understanding what's happened, where we are and where we're going. On today's show, we are joined by bitstamp USA CEO and Chief Commercial Officer Bobby Zagata. Bobby, how's it going?
- [01:21]
Bobby Zagata
It's going great. Great to be here, Jen.
- [01:23]
Jen Senassi
Yeah, thank you for joining us. It has been an absolutely insane week for crypto markets and I guess that came on the back of some, some other very turbulent news in the last week. Talk to me about what you've been watching.
- [01:40]
Bobby Zagata
Yeah, I'm not sure what you're referring to, but. No, I'm kidding, of course. Yeah. Incredible news coming out of the election and I think many people anticipated that if the administration changed it would. It would support crypto markets and bitcoin pricing. But I'm not sure if everyone anticipated to the ext extent that it has created a bona fide market rally, which is quite exciting. Now, there's a couple of other macro factors that I think are in play here. You know, I always tune into six months post having. Six months post having usually also for whatever reason creates momentum. And then these things all conspire together to get more people into the markets, which is. Which is exciting.
- [02:25]
Jen Senassi
Well, that's interesting. Let's put the election aside and look at six months post having. I know when the having happened, there were A lot of charts out there, a lot of folks looking at comparisons to previous havings. If we take the elections out of the narrative for just A second, we're six months post having, we're going into 2025. What do you expect to see given the havings that have happened in the past?
- [02:51]
Bobby Zagata
Yeah, I expect to see continued and sustained growth for the next few quarters anyway. Why do I say that? It's really driven, I think by increased institutional involvement and that's of course driven by several factors, not the least of which is ETFs. So just cannot understate the importance of Bitcoin ETFs and ETH ETFs in the marketplace today. It has a familiarity for institutions and retail investors that have unlocked a whole new set and segment of participants and that just continues to grow, I think. And as that money flows into the ecosystem, that creates more opportunities, more volume, more trading opportunities and investing opportunities. So that's been a really important piece of the puzzle in addition to this kind of six month phenomenon, post having. And then institutional involvement today continues to grow. So, you know, this week at Bitstamp, you know, our corporate onboarding was, you know, 60% higher than last week. Last week was 50% higher than the week before. You know, there's real interest by institutions and not just trading companies, but hedge funds, asset managers, more traditional financial services companies, that they finally perhaps have a level of confidence to participate fully.
- [04:21]
Jen Senassi
Does that level of confidence come from the result of the election?
- [04:26]
Bobby Zagata
I think in the US it's pretty significantly tied to the election. So in the US the regulatory environment, as you know, has been a little unclear and, or confusing. So, you know, different regulatory bodies, you know, perhaps battling for jurisdiction and lots of mixed signals is the way I view it. And so with this election, there is the anticipation of a clearer code of law, a clear set of regulations. And you know, for companies like bitstamp and many in the, in the ecosystem, you know, we just want to do everything correctly, everything right and make sure we're the safest possible place to access these markets. Now it's different outside of the us In Europe, for example, you know, they are ahead of the US in terms of achieving some level of regulatory clarity, specifically the MICA framework in the EU as an example. But in the US this is a real catalyst tied to the administration change.
- [05:31]
Jen Senassi
I mean, speaking of all these catalysts, I'm sure you saw Bitcoin's now become the seventh largest asset by market cap, overtaking oil giant Saudi Aramco. I just it's kind of unbelievable to read when you think about how old bitcoin is and how young I guess this industry is. Talk to me about what that means for you and how you put that in context. I mean, when you're talking to some of these institutions.
- [05:57]
Bobby Zagata
Yeah, I'm glad you highlighted that because sometimes in the day to day marketplace you kind of lose sight of how far the cryptocurrency phenomenon has become. I've been in this space full time for six years now and just earlier this year when the campaigns were starting to focus a bit on bitcoin and cryptocurrency, I was telling many of my colleagues this was unimaginable even just a year or two ago that it would be a bonafide campaign issue. And then to your point, now it's become mainstream. So it's acceptable, it's not a bad word. It's not only or solely associated with some of the darker parts of its history in the early days. And then we sometimes forget that in other jurisdictions in the U.S. it can be quite recreational. But in Venezuela or other developing countries in Africa, this, this, this blockchain technology and the ability to, to control your own destiny in terms of how you manage your, your money or your wealth is, it's a lifeline. It's not, it's not recreation, it's, it's truly a new path that, that can really improve society.
- [07:17]
Jen Senassi
It really is incredible. I mean I was in Argentina doing some reporting recently and just seeing how embedded different cryptocurrencies, I guess in Argentina it's more stable coins are into the everyday lives of people is just incredible. Like you said here, it's almost a novelty if you know, you know, you know, it's not as mainstream but there it has already really kind of embedded into the lives and are solving real problems. It was really incredible to see.
- [07:45]
Bobby Zagata
Yeah, that's a great example because in certain areas of the world, you know, the citizens who work hard their whole lives, they make some level of money, but they can't really trust their institutions to the extent that we sometimes take for granted in the US and so stablecoins is a perfect example. And stablecoins as you know, is just a super active part of the ecosystem right now. It is a killer app of sorts and is really creating new opportunities and there's a, there's a ton, There's a proliferation of new projects and possibilities across currencies, not just USD today.
- [08:28]
Jen Senassi
Yeah, I'm, I'm excited to see where, where stablecoins go I agree with you. I think it is the killer use case here. Now, as we head towards the end of the year, towards 2025, a lot of folks who are investing or thinking about investing watch the show if you're thinking about allocating a portfolio. What does that look like to you? If you're looking at a good balance across different crypto assets or crypto and traditional assets?
- [08:55]
Bobby Zagata
Well, Jen, you know, I would never give investing advice.
- [08:58]
Jen Senassi
That's why I framed the question.
- [09:01]
Bobby Zagata
Certainly not my role. But how, I'll tell you how I think about it. So, you know, it's not too dissimilar from the equities marketplace. You know, you kind of have your blue chips and your large caps and you have your mid caps and then you have more risk assets, you know, and so that's the way I think about it. And for me personally, bitcoin in particular, to me is a blue chip kind of asset. It's got such tremendous aum and acceptance around the world. And it also has some unique features that make it, I think, quite valuable. The scarcity component and the pure independence of the protocol. But then there's a lot of very interesting, let's call them mid cap or mid tier token opportunities that have really interesting use cases attached to them and are getting a lot of momentum. So tokens like Solana and Avalanche and Sui and Cardano and Polkadot, there's quite a range of really interesting technology and therefore protocols that are getting traction. So when I think about portfolio, to me, 50% is the large caps and then 50% is a combination of mid and more emerging opportunities. And in this marketplace, meme tokens have become quite interesting too. So I view those as kind of risky, riskier bets perhaps, but interesting markets.
- [10:38]
Jen Senassi
Meme tokens are really kind of driving this bull run as we spoke about it on markets Daily recently. Is, is that a surprising narrative to you? Like, what do you make of this? Like a massive interest in meme currencies right now?
- [10:56]
Bobby Zagata
It is a bit surprising, to be honest. You know, there's, there's always, or historically there's been a phenomenon with a bull market that altcoins in general do do very well and they, they start to balance against the, what we were referring to as large caps earlier bitcoin and eth. So that's not surprising. But the meme tokens in general have captured a lot of people's imagination and I think speculation is one of the great American pastimes. If it's not cryptos, it's other types of Asset classes that people like to understand the markets and make bets and see what they can learn and see what they can achieve. So I think that's what's happening in the meme token space. But to answer your question directly, I'm a bit surprised that they're getting so much attention and so much traction right now.
- [11:55]
Jen Senassi
I know I have to just point out one peanut surpassed a $1 billion market cap in less than two weeks. It is kind of wild to see. It feels like we're heading towards a pretty epic bull run. But again, I don't have a crystal ball, so who knows what's going to happen next year? We're talking about this market. Euph. Talk to me. Just given your experience, you've been in this industry for a long time. Is there anything folks should be wary of amongst all of this euphoria and excitement?
- [12:27]
Bobby Zagata
Well, I would say a couple of things. First of all, like any marketplace, there are cycles and there's long term views and there are short term views. And my personal view is that the bitcoin market in particular and cryptocurrencies in general is a long term play, if you will, and opportunity. So there will be. This is an exuberant market at the moment. There will be some corrections. But in general, I can't give any investment advice to anyone. But from my standpoint, the trend is undeniable if you look over the course of a few years, and I think it will continue for a few years. So I would say take a long term view and don't be rattled by short term cycles. That's part of any market, whether it's Tesla or Apple or bitcoin. So that's what I try to emphasize with my friends and family. And any asset class is a risk vehicle, if you will. So allocate your portfolio appropriately, you should, you should really only allocate a portion that you're comfortable dealing with, market cycles.
- [13:50]
Jen Senassi
All right. And the last thing I want to touch on is something that you brought up at the beginning. Obviously, regulation is a big theme as we head into 2025 under a new administration here in the United States. I know that bitstamp USA is very obviously focused on following the law, being compliant, as our other crypto firms that operate in the United States. Talk to me about what you expect to see from a regulatory standpoint in 2025 and how that might affect how the markets react, but also how crypto continues to develop here in North America.
- [14:28]
Bobby Zagata
Yeah, well, as you can imagine, we follow this very, very closely. Bitstamp as you may know, is the longest running crypto Exchange. Founded in 2011, we were the first exchange ever to get a regulatory license. Back in 2016, we were the first exchange to start getting global financial audits from a big four accounting firm. We've been doing that for eight years. We've invested heavily in compliance and being a leader, if you will, in terms of creating a safe way to participate for institutions and for retail investors. And so we've worked closely with legislators, legislatures, not just in the US but around the world. We've tried to shape policy, we've tried to create clarity. And from our standpoint, as I alluded to before, we just want better clarity in the U.S. tell us the rules, we will do it immaculately, as will others, and ensure that it's safe. We all have the same objective. So what do I anticipate? I'm hopeful that with the change in administration, it will unlock some of the blockers that I perceive have been in place that have made it impossible to advance legislation that will provide a framework of law that regulators, the sec, the CFTC in particular, can then create rulemaking out of and have clarity of jurisdiction. So, so I think that will be how it plays out versus kind of a, an, you know, a rulemaking by enforcement approach and trying to guess what the courts are going to do. So that's what I anticipate and that's what I'm hoping for, but I think we'll see in the next hundred days or so.
- [16:17]
Jen Senassi
Bobby, thanks so much for joining Markets Daily.
- [16:20]
Amazon Voice
It was a pleasure.
- [16:21]
Bobby Zagata
Great to see you, Jim. Thanks.
- [16:23]
Jen Senassi
And to our audience who is watching at home, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy Markets Daily or any other of our podcasts on the Coindesk Podcast Network, just subscribe to the Coindesk Podcast Network that is available on all podcast platforms. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Give us a thumbs up. It was wonderful chatting with you today. We'll see you tomorrow.