Episode Overview

Podcast: Markets Outlook
Host: CoinDesk (Jen Senasi)
Guest: Peter Schiff, Senior Economist (Euro Pacific Asset Management) & Founder (Schiff Gold)
Episode Title: "I May Have Influenced More People To Buy Bitcoin Than People Who Advocate Bitcoin"
Date: December 30, 2025

This episode features an extended interview with Peter Schiff, a noted gold advocate and crypto critic, who discusses gold’s remarkable performance in 2025, reflects on his influence in the crypto space, and debates the ongoing gold vs. Bitcoin narrative as well as the prospects for tokenized gold. The conversation moves seamlessly between macroeconomic themes, personal anecdotes, Schiff’s skepticism of Bitcoin, and exploration of future trends in digital assets and tokenized real-world assets.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Peter Schiff’s Unexpected Influence on Bitcoin Adoption

• Recognition by Crypto Community

  • Jen highlights Schiff’s inclusion on CoinDesk's Most Influential list despite being a Bitcoin critic.
  • Schiff's Self-Reflection ([01:14]):

    “I may have influenced a lot more people to buy bitcoin than the people who have advocated bitcoin.” — Peter Schiff

• Anecdotes from Bitcoin Conferences ([02:00])

  • Schiff recounts being approached by hundreds at a Bitcoin conference, thanking him for awakening their understanding of sound money and inadvertently guiding them toward BTC.

    “Hundreds of people came up to me individually to tell me that I was the reason that they owned bitcoin.” — Peter Schiff

  • He views this as ironic, given his intent was to promote Austrian economics and gold.

2. Gold’s Remarkable Run in 2025

• Continuation of Momentum ([04:44])

  • Gold’s breakout started in 2024, moving from $2,000 to over $4,000/oz by October 2025.
  • Trump’s reelection did not deter gold’s ascent; Schiff attributes continued gold strength to persistent inflation and expansionist policies regardless of administration.

• Macro Drivers ([06:18])

  • Gold’s decade-long consolidation (2011–2024) laid the groundwork for current explosive gains.
  • Bitcoin gained traction during gold’s stagnant period, fostering the “bitcoin is the new gold” narrative.
  • Schiff forecasts a new multi-year gold bull market and predicts the “Bitcoin is the new gold” story will unravel now that gold is performing strongly.

    “Gold is now in another phase... where we’re going to see steady and substantial gains. And I think that’s the environment where the whole bitcoin narrative is going to fall apart.” — Peter Schiff ([07:45])

• Economic Implications ([08:36])

  • Rising gold is a warning sign, reflecting deep concerns over inflation—not “contained” as per Fed officials:

    “If people weren’t worried about inflation, they wouldn’t be buying gold. That is the primary driver.” — Peter Schiff

  • Central banks buying gold, not dollars or Treasuries, is another red flag for fiat’s health.

3. Is Bitcoin ‘Sound Money’? Schiff’s Counterarguments

• Intrinsic Value vs. Scarcity ([10:33])

  • Schiff argues that mere scarcity doesn’t make something sound money.

    “Just because it’s scarce doesn’t make it sound money... Bitcoin doesn’t make a sound because it doesn’t have any substance. You can’t drop it on the table... it’s nothing.” — Peter Schiff

  • Real sound money (like gold) has intrinsic value and industrial utility, unlike Bitcoin, which he sees as valuable only due to collective belief—a “confidence game.”

• On Government Acceptance ([13:08])

  • Schiff is unconvinced by examples of government adoption (e.g. Czech central bank):

    “I don’t think governments are looking to acquire Bitcoin... This is just pandering to a special interest group.” — Peter Schiff

  • Schiff sees government crypto interest as the result of crypto industry lobbying, not fundamental value recognition.

4. Bitcoin Market Vulnerabilities & ETF Critique

• Post-Liquidation Market Assessment ([15:29])

  • Schiff views October’s major liquidation as a preview of greater volatility ahead.

    “That big liquidation is just a small taste of what’s going to come... I don’t see the other side of the trade.” — Peter Schiff

• ETF Investors & Market Structure

  • He differentiates between “true believers” and recent ETF entrants motivated by hype or FOMO.
  • He predicts ETF outflows will reveal a structural weakness, with no comparable wave of buyers when redemptions hit.

• MicroStrategy (Strategy) as a Cautionary Tale ([17:00])

  • He views business models built purely around holding Bitcoin (like MicroStrategy) as fundamentally flawed and expects their collapse when market sentiment turns.

5. Tokenized Gold & The Future of Real-World Asset Tokens

• Tokenized Gold Plans ([20:00])

  • Schiff sees potential for blockchain to enhance gold’s utility (portability, divisibility, efficiency) rather than displace it.

    “Rather than killing off gold, a blockchain could give it a whole new lease on life... Bitcoin ultimately goes away because there’s no real reason to have it.” — Peter Schiff

  • He discusses his project (T Gold, tgold.com): allowing users to buy gold and silver he hopes will be tokenized for greater usability.

• Skepticism on Broader Tokenization ([20:18])

  • While open to blockchain improving asset transferability, Schiff notes the industry’s history of unmet promises regarding real estate and car titles; warns of market hype and misallocated resources.

6. Trust: Blockchain Versus Custodians ([23:02])

• Replying to CZ’s Criticism (re: tokenized gold as a “trust me, bro” token)
  • Schiff argues trust in third parties (e.g. custodians, insurance companies) is fundamental to capitalism, citing longstanding gold custody practices as examples of trust-based, working models.

    “We trust third parties all the time in capitalism... In Bitcoin you don't need any of that. But the problem is Bitcoin represents the ultimate trust. I have to trust that people continue to believe that nothing is something...” — Peter Schiff

Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Quote/Exchange | Speaker | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------| | 01:14 | “I may have influenced a lot more people to buy bitcoin than the people who have advocated bitcoin.” | Peter Schiff | | 02:00 | “Hundreds of people came up to me individually to tell me that I was the reason that they owned bitcoin.” | Peter Schiff | | 04:44 | “The events of 2025 are really a continuation of the events of 2024, because gold had a huge year then as well.” | Peter Schiff | | 07:45 | “Gold is now in another phase... where we’re going to see steady and substantial gains. And I think that’s the environment...” | Peter Schiff | | 10:33 | “Just because it’s scarce doesn’t make it sound money... Bitcoin doesn’t make a sound because it doesn’t have any substance.” | Peter Schiff | | 15:29 | “That big liquidation is just a small taste of what’s going to come... I don’t see the other side of the trade.” | Peter Schiff | | 23:24 | “There’s always an element of trust in capitalism. Companies compete for reputation, for brand... In Bitcoin you don't need any of that. But... I have to trust that people continue to believe that nothing is something and that they don't wake up to reality. I don't want to put my faith in that.” | Peter Schiff |

Key Segments & Timestamps

• [01:14] – Peter Schiff on influencing Bitcoin adoption, stories from Bitcoin conferences.
• [04:44] – 2025 gold market review, macroeconomic and political implications.
• [06:18] – Gold’s consolidation history, Bitcoin’s parallel rise during gold sideways movement.
• [08:36] – Rising gold as inflation warning and fiat illusion.
• [10:33] – Bitcoin as “sound money” debate, intrinsic value argument.
• [13:08] – Governments’ relationship with Bitcoin: skepticism on real adoption.
• [15:29] – Crypto market structure, ETF risks, and impending volatility.
• [17:00] – Caution about Bitcoin-centric corporates like MicroStrategy.
• [20:00] – Plans for tokenized gold, perspectives on tokenized real-world assets.
• [23:24] – Responding to trust criticism of tokenized gold versus Bitcoin.

Tone & Language

• Schiff is candid and witty, combining deep skepticism of BTC with an educator’s tone on sound money.
• Jen Senasi keeps the discussion balanced, occasionally challenging Schiff’s views and prompting clarification.
• The overall discussion is lively, substantive, and occasionally tinged with irony and humor (particularly regarding Schiff’s role as a “reverse influencer” for Bitcoin adoption).

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode offers a comprehensive look at the evolving gold-versus-Bitcoin debate, featuring Peter Schiff’s trenchant critiques of crypto, insights on macroeconomic drivers behind gold’s surge, and plans for tokenized gold solutions. Schiff mixes self-awareness about his ironic influence in the crypto space with his lifelong commitment to Austrian economics and sound money principles. For those tracking digital assets and portfolios, it’s a fascinating window into increasingly intersecting debates about trust, technology, and the future of money.