Stablecoins, Survival and Trust in Emerging Markets | Markets Outlook

Summary

Markets Outlook – Stablecoins, Survival, and Trust in Emerging Markets (September 17, 2025)

Overview

In this episode of Markets Outlook by CoinDesk, the hosts are joined by Justin Norman, founder of The Flip and creator of a new documentary series focusing on stablecoin adoption at the last mile. The episode explores the varied roles stablecoins play in emerging markets, especially in Latin America and Africa, diving into the everyday realities, challenges, and tensions that emerge as individuals and businesses use crypto to navigate unstable or inaccessible financial systems. The conversation centers on how stablecoins are both a tool for survival and emblematic of deeper structural issues, with nuanced observations about local adaptation, trust, and legality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nuanced, Local Impact of Stablecoins

(00:00–01:26, 01:26–02:28)

• Global technology, local differences: Justin emphasizes that while stablecoins are a "default global technology," their actual adoption, use cases, and the specific problems they solve differ dramatically from market to market.
  • Quote [A, 00:16]:
    “...even though stablecoins are this kind of default global technology, the way in which they're being adopted and used and spent and the problems that they're solving can be vastly different market by market as well.”
• Need for a bottom-up approach: True understanding requires “this nuanced, like bottom-up approach to understand how it's going to solve problems depending on the market you're in” [A, 01:23].

2. Stablecoins Beyond Hyperinflation: The Argentina Case

(02:28–04:11, 04:11–06:02)

• Common assumptions vs. real motivations:
  • Despite the narrative that hyperinflation drives crypto use in Argentina, Justin observes after on-the-ground research that hyperinflation is "maybe the third thing on the list." Instead, issues like "taxes and government overreach" and a deep-rooted dollar preference stemming from lack of trust are more important.
  • Quote [A, 02:46]:
    “Hyperinflation is maybe the third thing on the list. They'll say taxes and government overreach... there’s a long history of, I think, dollar preference as a result of lack of trust and taxation and different things like that.”
• Stablecoins as remittance and access tools:
  • Stablecoins are crucial for moving money across borders, not necessarily for direct retail spending. On the street, pesos remain dominant and stablecoins are mainly off-ramped into local fiat for consumption.
  • Quote [A, 03:18]:
    “If they're spending in USDT or USDC, they're off ramping into pesos... I actually left thinking that the future is more of this entanglement and intertwined stablecoin fiat. You know, being able to move between them a lot easier and cheaper.”

3. The Tension Between Formal and Informal Economies

(04:11–06:24)

• Blurry lines in the economy:
  • In Argentina, the greatest friction exists “between formal and informal” sectors, with a sizeable parallel market of dollars and cash necessary for business survival. About "30% of the economy … if they didn't operate informally, they couldn't exist in Argentina" [A, 04:43].
• Necessity, not choice:
  • People resort to informal or parallel markets “because they have to,” not out of preference.
  • Quote [A, 05:03]:
    “They don't want to operate informally. But like, there is a reason why the parallel market exists and it thrives. And there's this tension between formal and informal, this like really gray line between legal and illegal.”

4. Bolivian Survival and Business Continuity

(05:16–06:24)

• Dollar shortages force innovation:
  • In Bolivia’s agricultural industry, “they have to use stablecoins in order just to continue their business and to survive.” This highlights stablecoins as essential for maintaining economic activity where fiat and dollars are unavailable.

5. The Grey Area of Legality and Trust

(06:02–08:14)

• Parallel economies and trust gaps:
  • Massive usage of physical dollars and stablecoins in Argentina exists outside of formal channels, largely due to institutional mistrust and regulatory limitations.
  • Quote [A, 06:29]:
    “In Argentina the second most amount of physical dollars in circulation outside of the US are in Argentina. So there's this entire thing that stablecoins are now plugging into...”
• What seems 'sketchy' is simply survival:
  • Justin shares that practices which seem risky or outright illicit from a Western point of view are often "business as usual" in markets like Argentina or parts of Africa.
  • Quote [A, 07:38]:
    “What looks sketchy to the West is often just business as usual or how you have to operate in some of these markets. I don't think that that's very well understood… They just say, I don't have a choice.”

6. Stablecoins as 'Just Money'? Branding and Perception

(08:14–09:52)

• Crypto as infrastructure, not product:
  • Panelists debate whether the term “stablecoin” itself is even useful; in many markets, USDT and the US dollar are treated interchangeably.
  • Quote [C, 08:27]:
    “It makes me feel like we're talking about SSMTP or like MP4s when we talk about music. I wonder if there’s almost a brand change that has to happen on the ground for people just to say, no, this is, it’s just money.”
• Anecdotes from the field:
  • Justin shares observing USDT prices (but no stablecoin acceptance) in a Bolivian airport duty-free shop, illustrating the confusion and flux at the intersection of crypto and fiat.
  • Quote [A, 08:37]:
    “I walked around Argentina and asked people if they knew what stablecoins were and they said no. And then I said USDT. And some said, oh yeah… in some markets they do kind of think interchangeably about like USDT, USD—it’s the same thing.”

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On local nuance:

  "The way in which they're being adopted and used and spent and the problems that they're solving can be vastly different market by market… it really does take this nuanced, like bottom up approach..."
  — Justin Norman [A, 00:16]

• On Argentina’s informal sector:

  “There’s this tension between formal and informal, this like really gray line between legal and illegal. Also I think that maybe kind of resonates with stablecoins and crypto adoption as well.”
  — Justin Norman [A, 05:03]

• On Western perceptions:

  "What looks sketchy to the West is often just business as usual or how you have to operate in some of these markets."
  — Justin Norman [A, 07:38]

• On rebranding crypto for everyday users:

  "I wonder if there’s almost a brand change that has to happen on the ground for people just to say, no, this is, it’s just money."
  — Host [C, 08:27]

• On stablecoins as an extension of everyday currency:

  "In some markets they do kind of think interchangeably about like USDT, USD—it’s the same thing."
  — Justin Norman [A, 08:54]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–01:26: Justin introduces the nuanced global adoption of stablecoins.
• 02:28–04:11: Argentina’s case – expectations vs. real on-the-ground stablecoin use.
• 04:11–06:02: The tension between formal and informal economic participation and its impact on crypto usage.
• 06:02–08:14: Legal grey areas and the pragmatic necessity of parallel economies.
• 08:14–09:52: Discussion on branding, perception, and interchangeable use of stablecoins and fiat.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is analytical but grounded, with first-person anecdotes and candid observations from Justin’s documentary travels. It’s critical of simplistic narratives about crypto in emerging markets, highlighting messiness, adaptability, and the constant negotiation between survival and legality.

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Conclusion

This episode underscores the reality that stablecoins are not a one-size-fits-all solution; their adoption and impact are deeply shaped by local economic structures, histories, and trust dynamics. In emerging markets, the lines between formal/informal and legal/illegal are often blurred out of necessity, and technology is quickly normalized as “just money” even as terminology and infrastructure evolve. Justin’s perspective reframes how we think about crypto adoption—not as a purely technical or financial innovation, but as a new lens on century-old dilemmas of trust, survival, and adaptation.

Transcript

[A]

I think one of the main things that I'm learning is like, even though stablecoins are this kind of default global technology, the way in which they're being adopted and used and spent in the problems that they're solving can be vastly different market by market as well. So it really does take this like nuanced, like bottom up approach to understand how it's going to solve problems depending on the market you're in.

[B]

As the founder of the Flip, he is producing a new documentary series focused on stablecoin adoption at the last mile, bringing to life the stories of how people from all around the globe are using this technology to solve everyday problems. Justin Norman, welcome.

[A]

Thank you. I'm very impressed with that transition and just how you guys are doing this all morning in general.

[B]

That means so much to come from a filmmaker I know.

[C]

If you have any tips, by the.

[A]

Way, everything in film, everything is, is edited so it's not live. Right. It makes it much easier in my opinion. Yeah.

[C]

Do you think I need a key light over here is real question that.

[A]

The lighting I use, my production team tells me what to do.

[B]

Okay. Sam, you look great.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Then you look great.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Let's, let's get into the conversation now. I love that you are traveling around the world and talking to people about stablecoins. You know, Sam and I spoke very briefly about how it's impacting folks largely in the developing world where the financial system has forgotten about a lot of people. Talk to us a little bit about what you're learning as you produce these stories.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I'm interested in stablecoins in the, in the developing market context in particular. Just because those are the problems, those are the markets where there's like real problems to solve. Right. I think even though now kind of after the genius act in the US people are kind of understanding what stablecoins could be good for in the US it's very obvious in places like Argentina or Bolivia or Nigeria or now Nepal even. Right. The role that stablecoins are playing and like what the job to be done is. And you know, so, so, but, but I don't think that the conditions on the ground are well understood. Right. So people will say Argentina hyperinflation. But if we really want to solve problems in Argentina with stablecoins, we really need to understand the context. And that's, I think one of the main things that I'm learning is like, even though stablecoins are this kind of default global technology, the way in which they're being Adopted and used and spent in the problems that they're solving can be vastly different market by market as well. So it really does take this like nuanced, like bottom up approach to understand how it's going to solve problems depending on the market you're in.

[B]

Let's stick in Argentina for just a second. Explain that context, because that's a story. We hear a lot in this industry about how crypto is solving problems for folks in Argentina, but we don't really get to dive into it deeper.

[A]

So. So I'm going to be a little bit maybe counterintuitive here. Everyone talks about Argentina and hyperinflation, right? But when you spend time on the ground and you ask why are people using stablecoins or why do they prefer dollars? In the first case, hyperinflation is maybe the third thing on the list. They'll say like taxes and government overreach. There's a long history of, I think dollar preference as a result of lack of trust and taxation and different things like that. And stablecoins are now playing a role, especially in helping move money across borders in the Argentinian context. But as a result of this narrative, when I was going to Argentina, I had this expectation that I'd see much more visible stablecoin adoption, like prices in USDT or merchants accepting. And you don't really see that much of that. It feels like a regular economy. People are all spending in pesos. If they're spending in USDT or usdc, they're off ramping into pesos. They're kind of doing Mercado Pago qr. Right. And so I think that that's a good example of like I went with this expectation that it would be more on chain than any other place I went to. And I actually left thinking that the future is more of this entanglement and intertwined stablecoin fiat. You know, being able to move between them a lot easier and cheaper. And even though we're telling the story of Argentina is the most on chain and the best place for stablecoin adoption, obviously the, the actual reality is a lot more nuanced and complex than that.

[C]

You know, Justin, when I think about great documentaries, I think about that there's often a tension there. I think about that you have a sort of a hero and villain moment. What, what's the real sort of.

[A]

What'S.

[C]

The friction you're running into that you're, you're seeing these, these communities trying to overcome?

[A]

Yeah. So I think it depends also on what market we're talking about in Argentina, it's actually this tension between like formal and informal. Right. So there's this whole parallel market that people operate in because they have to. Right. Because the history of Argentina, monetary policy and taxation has meant that you have to reside over here or else like your business isn't going to survive. Like people were saying to me, 30% of the, the informal, 30% of the economy, if they didn't operate informally, they couldn't exist in Argentina. Right. And they don't want to operate informally. But like there is a reason why the parallel market exists and it thrives. And there's this tension between formal and informal, this like really gray line between legal and illegal. Also I think that maybe kind of resonates with stablecoins and crypto adoption as well in a place like Bolivia. I was just in, so I was in Argentina a couple of weeks ago. I was in Bolivia about a week and a half ago in Bolivia it's like dollar access for survival. There's massive dollar shortages in Bolivia right now. I met with like a 30 year importer, a 30 year old business that's importing agricultural products. They have to use stablecoins in order just to continue their business and to survive. Right. So this tension between, you know, where this regular formal family owned business and now we're learning how to adopt this new technology. It's actually like kind of a lifesaver for us. That tension is an interesting one as well. And there's more that I can do. But those are two recently that come to mind.

[B]

You talk about that blurry line between legal and illegal, especially in Argentina. I was there last year for another event, another broadcast like this one and I noticed the same thing you did. A lot of folks raising stablecoins but no one was talking about it. And it almost felt like this like dark underbelly. Yeah, but everyone was participating in it.

[A]

Yeah. And I would say that it's not just like stablecoin adoption as this dark underbelly, but it's this entire parallel market of dollars and cash that is, you know, in Argentina the, the second most amount of physical dollars in circulation outside of the US are in Argentina. Right. And so there's this entire thing that stablecoins are now plugging into that's not just just about that, but I think it's like, you know, if you for example, during a period of hyperinflation, chose to sell your pesos into dollars, you couldn't do that through the bank because either the bank didn't have, didn't give you access or because the parallel rate was better. Right. So you chose to use the informal market and then your money exists outside of the system, which a lot of people want. If you then wanted to put that back into the bank, which a lot of people don't want to do because they don't trust banks. But let's say you wanted to and then you wanted to participate in the formal system. Again, you have to kind of show how did you earn these dollars. Right. And you can't do that because you bought them informally. And so that's. This idea about this tension is like you might have done a, like run a legitimate business earned in pesos, moved your money out, move if you want to move it back in. Right. Like that tension of like, is that money laundering? I don't know if it is. Right. But there's, there's like a very legitimate reason why people are participating in this parallel economy. And I think also, like, as an American, I lived in South Africa for 10 years and have traveled and spent a lot of time in east and West Africa. I think that that sort of tension of like, what looks sketchy to like the west is often just business as usual or how you have to operate in some of these markets. I don't think that that's very well understood. I don't know if it's legal or not. I don't know if Argentinians think it's legal or not. They just say, I don't have a choice. Right.

[C]

I think that's a fascinating topic. It also makes me wonder if, like we've already said stablecoins 95 times since we started this broadcast. But that's like, I mean, it makes me feel like we're talking about SSMTP or like MP4s when we talk about music. I wonder if there's almost a brand change that has to happen on the ground for people just to say, no, this is, it's just money.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is there like, is there any insight you have in that?

[A]

I would agree. Yeah. I mean, I walked around Argentina and asked people if they knew what stablecoins were and they said no. And then I said usdt. And some said, oh yeah, you know, But I do think it's like, yeah, I mean, thinking about it as just money. I was in the. Another just anecdote. I was in the airport in Santa Cruz, Bolivia and the duty free shop had all of the prices in usdt, but they didn't accept usdt. So for some, I don't know why, but for some reason, maybe they wanted to and they couldn't figure out merchant acceptance. But yeah, I guess they're just kind of thinking about like in some markets they do kind of think interchangeably about like USDT us, you know, USD it's the same thing. In that store they only accepted dollars in cash or zelle interestingly enough. So I guess they had a US bank account. But I agree with you. Right. Like it's the way in which it's being utilized in many of these markets is interchangeable with cash and in some ways is, you know, just a more like readily used version of cash. You can do more with it. And that I think is what the future should look like is just using it for the same reasons why you might use cash but you can do a lot more with it than you can do with cash.

[B]

Justin, thanks so much for joining us at the desk. I'm sure we'll see you around and we'll catch up on the next episode.

[A]

Yes, thanks so much.