Co-host (1:53)

I mean, Tristan, I can't imagine you don't bring the same discipline to your, to your game as you do to this. We've had a lot of conversations. You are, you are in it. You are trying to, like, push your brand, but also your, your understanding and knowledge. Herman, you're no slouch. Like, we've had you speaking on stages with us for years, you know, fandom, you know, digital virtual communities better than most.

Tristan Thompson (2:14)

Yeah.

Co-host (2:15)

Tell us about how this really came together.

Herman Narula (2:17)

Sure. I mean, I'll maybe give my bid and jump in, but look, I. I met Tristan, and I think, like a lot of people, you know, I met him for my podcast, Herman's podcast, and I kind of underestimated him hugely. You know, a lot of the talent that we speak to who have become famous in one field often don't necessarily present as having the narratives, the articulation, the communication power to build out a business that is. That genuinely startles us after having thought about this problem for a long time. And Tristan just crushed me. He floored me. Right. Like in my pre meetings, in my discussions on the podc, I was like, here's a person who doesn't just understand the problem domain really well, but can actually help us understand as people who aren't in the sport, you know, how we can apply what we have to transforming it. And so I just. I had to invest. I had to do it. You know, I think I. I called up my founders that day, my co founders from the podcast. I was like, we're giving this guy money. And they were like, who. Who are we giving money to?

Tristan Thompson (3:03)

Why?

Herman Narula (3:03)

What's happening? And so, you know, it took us a while to, you know, to get the whole thing sorted, but now we're, you know, well underway.

Tristan Thompson (3:08)

Yeah, but I think for us, I think we, we. You almost want to challenge the system, right? I think that's why me and Herman, like, we mesh so well. Is that because especially in my world, we're always taught, like, this is how it is. Right. This is like, fans are right here, prediction markets right here, Gambling's right here. And it's almost like we want to challenge that to see, like, are you really as good as you say you are? And is this actually the best solution? Right. And for us, we came together and we're like, especially on the infofi side, right? Like, if we are able to take all this information and what I like to say is this, social media wise, is so powerful that those communities. And I'll give you an example, I know owners in the NBA that literally go on social media and they have fired head coaches just because they've been killed about the hire they've made. So if you can go to the community for negative and make a change to your franchise, imagine if the community is able to give you positive and great information. I'm really telling you the valuable player, the true value of player not just these analytics, statistician guys that are just placed in here, whether it's a favor from mom and pop or just a nepotism thing, right? Where, like, who actually really knows the sport and actually can help the sport grow completely.

Herman Narula (4:10)

And I'd say, like, you know, the thing that won me over wasn't just the vision for what we can do for the NBA, but the idea that, you know, there is talent out there in the world. You know, whether that's in Nigeria, Ghana, Indonesia, anywhere. I think you were saying there's like, what, there's like six scouts per team or something to cover the entire world. And so, you know, my thought is like, well, hey, if we make it into a game, if we make the discovery of talent into something that can accumulate value, maybe we can open up a whole bunch of people to career opportunities that wouldn't otherwise have existed. And look, I think infofi is the next matter. There's a lot of talk of like NFTs, etc. But Infofi is maybe the most pure example of what crypto can do to make markets more efficient. And I suspect, you know, it's where we are. We're backing with Somnia. I think it's going to be the next big thing.

Interviewer (4:52)

Talk us through how it works for a fan out there who's going to use the platform. Like, what does that experience look like?

Tristan Thompson (4:56)

Well, the experience is pretty simple. I mean, just imagine basically using the blockchain for, for just fantasy and prediction. Mark. Right? Everyone knows about Polymar. Listen, Polymarker is basically more credible than CNN and Fox and all those other coin death. Come on. But, you know, so you're looking at these two areas and especially from the sports and, and the gambling side, right? Like FanDuel and drafting. Yes. Guess what? They're doing great things. But I challenge them. I challenge, like, are they really the best source of, of outcome or really like, we want to be disruptors in this space? And I think that's how you kind of make a change. Like no different than like Uber when it came with the taxis. Like, you got to almost go left field and have this kind of crazy idea. People might think you're like, he's that. Excuse my French. S H I T crazy. But like, he might be onto something, right?

Herman Narula (5:40)

Like completely. And look, we're already trading shitcoins. Why not trade tokens that represent players? Why not trade things that really matter, right? And maybe that'll allow some of the drama, both on and off the pitch to kind of come into you know, into this experience. I think the other key thing for us is low fees. Like, I think you've been really big on this. It's like making this fair, making this accessible, making this somewhere where an edge actually means something, you know, And I'm really excited about what this can be.

Tristan Thompson (6:02)

And have the fans really determine about the player.

Herman Narula (6:04)

Exactly. Right?

Tristan Thompson (6:05)

Not just the LeBron James and the.

Herman Narula (6:06)

Giannis, but everybody else.

Tristan Thompson (6:07)

Everyone knows it's like the role players, right? Like, for instance, I'm thinking in my head like a guy like Marcus Smart, that was with the Celtics, right. He was not Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown, but he was just as important to the Celtics in terms of a championship run that they had. Right? So, like, let the fans really ignite that and put a value behind that and tokenize it where it shows how important he is to the actual team, but in a way where we can use gaming and fantasy completely.

Herman Narula (6:32)

And then the players who are first, the fans who come in earliest, they're going to have the biggest opportunity to win on this. I think there's a huge vision for the company to reward early adopters and not in an exploitative way, but really to make them co creators and builders. So, yes, it's one of the most exciting projects we're building on.

Co-host (6:46)

Somnia, I want to ask you, you know, Top Shot really kicked off a lot of this, right? 2020 Big Top Shot moment. Now we saw what happened with football. Fun. I want to just understand why sports and crypto go so hand in hand. I think, I think everyone. To your point, Tristan, it's like people want to know the bit players because they think in fantasy that that's the one that's going to make them win. So. So what is it about the information of, like, I just want to be like, do my homework, get inside. Which is not that different than meme coins. Like, if I can figure this out, I can actually benefit. What is it also about split sports that makes it so exciting?

Tristan Thompson (7:19)

Yeah, I mean, listen, when I was. When I got into the space and when I went to Token last year, you start to realize how much people in web3 and crypto love sports. Like, they're really sports, Madison, to be honest, they love basketball. And like everyone I run into, like the 2016, like, I. I never realized how much people are in the sports and like crypto and it's like, literally whether it's 2K, madam, it's so much. You know, everyone uses the cliche like, rappers want to be athletes, athletes wanna be rappers. No, it's almost like crypto guys want to get on the court and play one on one versus their players and like literally go hoop. Like you see Thread guy and these guys like hooping and talking about who's the best guy in web three in basketball. Right. So it's like, it makes sense. And like we've been getting a lot of grip completely.

Herman Narula (7:56)

And also like regulatory and legal changes have heavily assisted this. Right. I think we're in a very unusual situation in the United States now where, you know, everything was either securities law or gambling. Now this is like gray area, which is in a sense regulated and in a sense unregulated. And you know, with tax changes that have happened and the approach to gambling being almost seen as like commodity market interaction, I think it's led to a lot of people being, being excited. And look, the other element to this is people like being right, people like winning. Crypto people like winning more than almost anybody else likes winning. And to have an opportunity to take something you're passionate about to win and to even catch the attention of players. You know, Tristan won't be the only one, I think, engaging with this, with, with some of your plans. I think it's going to be very exciting.

Interviewer (8:35)

Herman, you brought up regulation right there. I'm just curious, like, how closely you're watching regulation in the States.

Herman Narula (8:39)

Oh, you know, incredibly closely.

Interviewer (8:41)

Yeah. You know, people are waiting for the CFTC to make some recommendations on prediction markets like polymarket. How closely are you watching and how adaptable?

Herman Narula (8:49)

Incredibly closely. Right. And look, one of the things we believe in is that a lot of crypto has lost its decentralization. You know, I think when you think about things like stablecoins, which have been a big aspect of growth, they're actually very centralized and it's very easy for like, you know, whether it's tether or USDC to actually ban accounts and prevent you from using your money. And a lot of that centralization has become a way of appealing to regulators. Right. And to sort of go look, it's not that scary, it's kind of different. But a lot of the power of crypto is decentralization and co ownership. So one of the things we're doing is why we built a really powerful blockchain was so that we could put more information on chain and make things more decentralized. So our hope is that if we can maintain credible decentralization, then no matter the regulatory climate, we're going to create an environment that is pretty appealing to folks and to allow them to build and compose businesses.

Co-host (9:34)

Final question. Tristan, in the locker room, how many guys are asking you what the price of bitcoin is going to be at the end of the year?

Tristan Thompson (9:40)

Listen, I'm telling you, ever since I've gone to space and my teammates will see me on air, Joan, like, yielding. They're like, yo, what are you doing? Like, I'm yielding, guys. All right? But really, like, my teammates have started noticing. They ask questionnaires, and guys are like, you know, like, do I get more xrp? Do I buy more eats? So, like, literally, guys are texting me and then, like, in a group chat saying, like, yo, it's pumping. What should I do? I'm like, hold it. Long term, guys. Think long. The same way you bet on yourself to get to the NBA, you got to bet on these coins and bet. Bet on, bet on. Bet on the space. Bet on what the future of digital finance is. Bet on. That's what's going to be our kids. Kids. That's the form of that. They're not going to be walking into these. These banks and these. These institutions. They're going to be literally having their wallets and being on a computer and literally managing their finance like this.

Herman Narula (10:17)

Everyone's going to trade. I mean, it's like, almost like a national sport in a weird way. Yeah.

Interviewer (10:22)

What Sam, I think was getting at is when they ask you what the price of bitcoin is going to be, do you tell them a price?

Co-host (10:29)

All right. Arthur Hayes sold us 250,000 by the end. Higher.

Interviewer (10:33)

Disagree.

Tristan Thompson (10:34)

I'm gonna say, look, Arthur Hayes is an og, so he's a very aggressive, and he's gonna give it to you hard. But, you know, for me, I'm gonna say, like, a 150.

Interviewer (10:40)

That's what you said.

Tristan Thompson (10:44)

I'd rather. I'd rather set the bar low and overachien, like, damn, Tristan, I don't know.

Co-host (10:49)

I heard it here first.

Interviewer (10:53)

All right, that was NBA champion Tristan Thompson, who thinks bitcoin could get to 150 by the end of the year. That's not bad. Insomnia founder Herman Narula.