....Brought To You By The Letters "A, D, H, and D"

Summary

Marriage and Martinis - Episode: Brought To You By The Letters "A, D, H, and D"

Release Date: March 10, 2025

In this compelling episode of Marriage and Martinis, hosts Danielle and Adam open up about their personal journeys with ADHD and OCD, offering listeners an intimate look into how these conditions influence their marriage, parenting, and daily lives. The episode serves as a candid exploration of mental health within the family unit, highlighting both the struggles and strengths that come with managing these diagnoses.

---

1. Introduction to ADHD and OCD in the Family

Danielle initiates the conversation by revealing her recent diagnosis of OCD, adding to her existing ADHD diagnosis. She reflects on the long journey to this revelation, stating:

“I, I don't think we've spoken about it since my recent, since the revelation, the world-changing revelation of my psychiatrist and therapist that I have OCD. OCD? Yeah, I fucking do.”
— Danielle [01:15]

This announcement sets the stage for a deeper discussion about how mental health conditions have been navigated within their household.

---

2. ADHD in Their Children

The couple discusses their children's experiences with ADHD and autism. Danielle shares the story of their middle son, Ian, who was diagnosed at eight years old, emphasizing how his traits mirrored ADHD symptoms:

“He literally could never sit still. I mean, he couldn't sit still for two minutes.”
— Danielle [03:01]

Mia, their eldest daughter, was diagnosed on the autism spectrum with severe ADHD symptoms at 19. Danielle notes the complexity of diagnosing ADHD in girls, who often exhibit internalized symptoms that are less visible than the external behaviors typically seen in boys.

---

3. Gender Differences in ADHD Diagnosis

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring why ADHD is often underdiagnosed in females. Adam points out the challenges associated with this disparity:

“You can’t easily see and relate to having ADHD.”
— Adam [56:36]

Danielle concurs, highlighting societal expectations and traditional gender roles that further complicate the recognition and diagnosis of ADHD in women.

---

4. Societal Impact on ADHD Symptoms

Danielle discusses how modern society's fast-paced nature exacerbates ADHD symptoms, particularly executive dysfunction and attention issues:

“Our daily life moves so fast, right? Our daily life moves so fast.”
— Danielle [10:08]

Both hosts agree that societal structures often fail to accommodate the needs of individuals with ADHD, leading to increased stress and challenges in maintaining organizational habits.

---

5. Personal Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

Danielle opens up about her personal struggles with self-identity post-diagnosis, expressing feelings of confusion and relief:

“This now, coming to realize that maybe my perception of myself wasn't what I thought it was.”
— Danielle [49:36]

She also touches on addictive behaviors driven by dopamine deficiency, linking them to her ADHD:

“Some people have a hyper of it and some people have a less than.”
— Danielle [29:25]

Adam shares his experiences with managing ADHD over the years, emphasizing the importance of recognizing both strengths and weaknesses associated with the condition.

---

6. Therapy and Medication

The conversation delves into the roles of therapy and medication in managing ADHD and OCD. Danielle expresses frustration with therapists who lack specialization:

“I shouldn't need to tell you something about my condition. I would hope that you're going and, you know, trying to research it yourself.”
— Danielle [43:41]

Adam discusses the balance between leveraging strengths and mitigating weaknesses through therapeutic interventions:

“I found my strengths and I found how I can better them.”
— Adam [40:47]

---

7. Gender Roles and Their Impact

Danielle explores how traditional gender roles have negatively impacted her experience with ADHD, particularly in a highly gendered family environment:

“Gender roles very much negatively impacts women with ADHD.”
— Danielle [56:52]

She reflects on feeling ostracized for not conforming to expected behaviors, linking this to her ADHD-related challenges with spatial and time awareness:

“There's a lack of spatial and time awareness that comes with ADHD.”
— Danielle [56:52]

---

8. Conclusion and Future Discussions

As the episode wraps up, Danielle and Adam express gratitude towards their listeners and outline plans for future discussions, including a follow-up episode focusing on Adam's experiences with ADHD. They encourage listeners to rate and review the podcast to support their work amidst challenges with podcast platform changes.

“Please rate and review. You guys have been so awesome.”
— Danielle [69:45]

They also touch briefly on their foray into political activism, acknowledging the support of their community in navigating these new terrains.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Danielle [01:15]: “I have OCD. OCD? Yeah, I fucking do.”
• Danielle [03:01]: “He literally could never sit still. I mean, he couldn't sit still for two minutes.”
• Adam [05:46]: “It's harder because of the symptoms and the masking.”
• Danielle [10:08]: “Our daily life moves so fast, right? Our daily life moves so fast.”
• Danielle [49:36]: “This now, coming to realize that maybe my perception of myself wasn't what I thought it was.”
• Adam [40:47]: “I found my strengths and I found how I can better them.”
• Danielle [56:52]: “Gender roles very much negatively impacts women with ADHD.”
• Danielle [43:41]: “I shouldn't need to tell you something about my condition. I would hope that you're going and, you know, trying to research it yourself.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Marriage and Martinis offers a raw and honest examination of ADHD and OCD within a marriage and family context. Danielle and Adam's discussion provides valuable insights into the often-overlooked challenges faced by women with ADHD, the societal pressures that exacerbate these conditions, and the importance of specialized mental health support. Their openness serves as a beacon for listeners navigating similar paths, emphasizing that understanding and support are crucial in managing mental health within familial and marital relationships.

Transcript

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[Danielle]

Foreign.

[Adam]

Hey everybody. Welcome to marriage and Martinis. I'm Adam, here is Danielle.

[Danielle]

Hello.

[Adam]

I'm, I'm curious, what made you want to talk about ADHD today?

[Danielle]

Well, I, I don't think we've spoken about it since my recent, since the revelation, the world changing revelation of my psychiatrist and therapist that I have ocd. Ocd? Yeah, I fucking do. I mean all the, yeah, all the letters. Adhd. Yeah. That I got, I've recently gotten diagnosed and it's something that, you know, I've, I've thought I've had for, I don't want to say a long time, but as, as you know, when Mia went to get. Mia, who's now 19, I guess she was, I don't know if she was 14 or I guess she was 15 when I took her. Our son, our middle son, who is.

[Adam]

You'Re showing signs of adhd.

[Danielle]

You know, that's, now, that's all I thought about since we started researching this episode. Everything. I was like, oh, my notes are so unorganized. And I was like, oh, well that checks.

[Adam]

My daughter who's 19 and my son.

[Danielle]

Okay, well, they're related literally.

[Adam]

Now I, I. Finish your thought, please.

[Danielle]

Well, no, I, I, I think that this is going to be a common theme that comes up and by the way, I'm going to put money on it right now that this is going to be a two parter at least.

[Adam]

At least.

[Danielle]

At least.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

But Ian, our middle son, we're all like so open about all this in our house. Like, like some people are like, how do you talk? Like, don't reveal anything about. They don't care. They're so used to us.

[Adam]

No, it's, it's actually more than that. It's like we kind of taunt each other a little bit. Kind of. Because we all have something or everything.

[Danielle]

Except Jonah.

[Adam]

Right.

[Danielle]

We'll him up, but we just haven't yet.

[Adam]

He just looks from the sideline like, hey, you're all.

[Danielle]

Yeah, yeah, basically. So anyway, when Ian, our younger one, our middle son. Oh, My God, I'm a little nervous to talk about this. Me, not him. He was 8 when he got diagnosed, and it was literally, like, his teacher told me that she. I mean, I always. We knew. I mean, he was, you know, drumming on everything from the second he was born. And we're all like, oh, he's such a great drummer and everything, but he literally could never sit still. I mean, he couldn't sit still for two minutes. He's still. To this day, he's always, you know, drumming or talking or whatever. But Mia went, as many girls do, undiagnosed for a really long time. And again when she was growing up, I always knew something was off. We knew something, you know, wasn't right. More than just. I didn't. ADHD didn't even come to my mind, really. And so I had taken her for a full evaluation at her request. It was, like a intense process and super expensive. But I drove her into New York City every week for. I don't know. I don't know if it was four weeks or six weeks. Once a week she went, and it was like this really official test where she would be in there for, like, three hours, and they would do these, you know, where she would have to, like, listen to these tiny little sounds and how many sounds were there in a minute and how many, like, all these different tests to see what was wrong or what was. I don't want to say wrong, different or whatever. And it came back that she was on the spectrum. You know, she's autistic and. Which was really what we were going for. But more than that was that according to the woman who was. I don't know, he. She's like a renowned neuro. Pediatric neuropsychologist. I think this was, I don't know, five years ago now. She. Her ADHD was, like, off the charts. That was really. I mean, she was like, I can't believe she's never been diagnosed. And it's so interesting because Ian and Mia's. They may have some overlapping things that are similar, but they're completely different.

[Adam]

Right. I mean, you don't typically. We'll get into this, too, but you don't typically look at girls and think, oh, that's an ADHD symptom. Or that's, you know, because you can look at a boy and be like, he's got adhd.

[Danielle]

Well, Reese, now you do. Now, I think you can tell a lot more because there's a lot more research.

[Adam]

Well, yeah, but it's also harder because of the symptoms. And the differences and the masking. Yeah. So it's much harder, but we'll get to that stuff. But I really wanted to know why. Why did you think you had adhd? Like, what were the symptoms that you were. You know, because you. Like you just said before, you know, you have OCD and you have, you know, anxiety. You have all these things. So what. What was the term determination of? Well, this thing is adhd.

[Danielle]

Well, first of all, a lot of this stuff is interconnected, and a lot of this stuff overlaps, and it's really difficult to know where one quote, unquote, mental illness ends and the next begins. They're all sort of intertwined. And we do. We have a ton of history in my family of anxiety, depression. And OCD is the biggest. I mean, my grandmother had it really badly and unfortunately suffered for years of her life because there was no medication or anything. My mom has it. She still doesn't talk about it much, but she has it. And I never really knew growing up because I knew she did things that were, you know, repetitive and constant and everything, but we didn't. She didn't really talk about it. So I didn't know what it was until later. But, you know, adhd. And now I've found out a few of my cousins have girl cousins. So, you know, all this stuff was really pervasive in our family history. And I've always known. Look, I've always had issues with. I started reading more and more about ADHD when Mia had it. You know, as a girl, I read a lot when Ian had it, but it was so different from, you know, anything really, that I related to. So I didn't really. I researched for him, but there wasn't a lot of light bulbs going off. And then when. Because I researched everything. When Mia was diagnosed, I started researching a lot because I wanted to get, you know, the right school for her, the right therapist, all the things. And a lot of what I researched, I started being like, this really sounds like me, even if it wasn't her. You know what I mean? Like, when I was reading, I'd be like, oh, well, that's not Mia. But I do that a lot. And then I had some friends who got diagnosed, and they, you know, and I would talk to them about it, and. And at a certain point, I was sure I was like, 100%. I know I have it. I have. So I check so many boxes and look again. It's probably exacerbated by my ocd. It's probably exacerbated by My anxiety, it's probably exacerbated by my lifestyle, all of the things. But I knew I had it. I just needed to go. Like, there wasn't a part of me that thought that I was going to go speak to the specialist and him be like, I don't think so. You know what I mean? Like, I knew.

[Adam]

Yeah. Well, the problem with adhd too, is, you know, it's like every other thing that's out there, like OCD or like people who, whatever, they, they're clean and they're like, oh, I'm so OCD about cleaning, or I'm so adhd because I can't focus this second on this. Like, it's become so synonymous with. Because there's so many symptoms, there's so many relatable symptoms, but they don't get the fact that it's actually a real symptom of every day.

[Danielle]

It's not an adjective, it's a. It's a condition.

[Adam]

Like when you, you know, if I'm scrolling, tick tock, you know, I get these videos all the time of, you know, this is what it's like to live with adhd. And it shows, you know, somebody do, you know, doing, you know, and they're also like, yeah, of course. We're all, you know, we all get frustrated with sitting too long or we all get frustrated, you know, all the little things. So it's like, oh, everybody's got adhd. You know what I mean? But it just goes so far beyond all that. Like, there's so many other symptoms that you don't even realize, you know, like what we went through with Ian, what we went through with Mia, what we go through, you know, all those things that are not, you know, scrollable on TikTok because it's not a relatable thing, or it's not funny, or it's not, you know, those things.

[Danielle]

Yeah, no, I was going to add to that, that I also just think our society is set up for a way that, number one, does not support, you know, ADHD and executive function or lack thereof in any way. But the, the reason, I think, why so many of us have trouble waiting and, you know, whatever is that, number one, society moves so fast, right? Our daily life moves so fast. And we're used to, especially now with, you know, I mean, everything from. It started with the microwave and everything could get done quickly and, you know, with TV and now, like, you know, when we used to get up and turn the channel and now we just. If it, if the TV doesn't turn on in one second. Because we pushed the button once, like in the, in when we're in our family room and they push the button once and they're like, what the hell? Why isn't it turning on? You know, and, and like all of the, you know, if we have to watch an ad when we're watching a Netflix show or whatever, all of that stuff has gotten us to a point where we don't know how to slow down and.

[Adam]

Well, especially again, like with Tick Tock or something like when you're watching.

[Danielle]

Exactly.

[Adam]

Second.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Adam]

Clips or whatever where, you know, our attention span is just diminishing. But you know, it's, it's funny. You and I had this conversation not too long ago where it's either like the far extreme both ways, right. Like if I'm watching Tik Tok or I'm watching whatever, you know, and it's a 10 after three seconds. If I'm not into it, I'm next, you know, like, like everybody, right? So your attention span is, you know, it's crazy, but when I listen to podcasts and they're an hour, I'm like, why the is this not two hours? I want to hear more about what they're talking about.

[Danielle]

Well, you're doing other things when you're listening.

[Adam]

Well, I'm driving, right? Yes.

[Danielle]

You're not doing anything else when you're scrolling TikTok.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm sitting on the couch. You might as well be driving. Like, what's the difference? Like I can't obviously watch videos while I'm driving, but I'm not doing anything. I'm watching Tick Tock sitting on my couch or in my bed, like you know, flicking through. But I think our attention spans are like geared towards certain things now. Like we have attention spans for different reasons, like for scrolling Tick Tock for three seconds or listening to a podcast because I'm in the car and I'm driving. Or you're doing something at home. We're working in the yard or working in the kitchen and you have your AirPods in. So it's, it's kind of a weird, like there's no middle ground, you know, so it's interesting.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And now even with everything going on, like with the news, I feel like all these news, independent news people or accounts are doing so well because people can only take it in bite sized pieces. Like if, I don't know if you follow Midas Touch, but Midas Touch and they, I think they, they've, I think their podcast is like number one now or something. Or number two, but they do it where as soon as a news story comes out, the second it comes out and they've, I guess they've confirmed it, they do a one minute clip about it and that's it. And then an hour later, another news. So it's not you sitting there for an hour hearing about everything that happened during the day. You're literally getting it instantaneously as it's happening and you don't have to focus for more than 60 to 90 seconds.

[Adam]

But the funny thing is, contrary to that, I see like what's happening with the news media and the frustration and people not trusting it anymore and all those things. But one of the things is they're so frustrated with the fact that there's a news segment for a minute or five, but it's such an important thing that it should be a full hour segment. But, you know, and they get to an important thing like, okay, it's time to go. We have to cut.

[Danielle]

We have to. It's so frustrating. So stupid. We're over on time. Meanwhile, the other person just said something like absolutely fucking ridiculous. No fucking fact check them before you move on. Nope, we can't. Sorry.

[Adam]

Yeah. This company found the cure to cancer. I'm sorry. It was time to get. We have the next guest. So, so that's what I'm saying. It's like we have attention. Spirit bands. They just have to be used or we, we need it, I guess for specific things other than just the way the news used to be. I guess.

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Adam]

I don't know.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Do you want to hear? I, I, I kind of went into like the history of ADHD and Is it, is it boring?

[Danielle]

Do you want, you could just, I mean, because it's a few.

[Adam]

Yeah. Because I think it's, it's kind of. Not everybody knows about it. Not everybody realizes that, that it's a, you know, it's a real thing. Like I was saying before.

[Danielle]

Oh, people. I think today, everybody knows it's a real thing. It's so pervasive.

[Adam]

Okay. I guess, but, but you know, I guess most people aren't researched about it or know too much about it.

[Danielle]

Right. I don't, I don't know much about the history of it except that it was first, you know, studied in boys way before it was studied in girls.

[Adam]

Right. I, I just pulled a few interesting things that I thought, you know, it's starting with the history of it, that it was actually first described in 1798 by a Scottish physician who, you Know old timey language of the incapacity of attending with a necessary degree of constancy. Constancy, consistency, consistency, constancy to any one object. Right. So you get the point of like what they were saying. Right. And then Fast forward to 1902 or. A British physician described an abnormal defect of moral control in children.

[Danielle]

He.

[Adam]

He found that some affected children could not control the behavior and a typical child would. But they were still intelligent. And that's still intelligent. They were still intelligent.

[Danielle]

Oh, they were still intelligent.

[Adam]

I'm not good at reading.

[Danielle]

No, I thought that it was maybe just like, like a medical, you know, that sometimes the language is.

[Adam]

No, but this is back in 1902 and it's. It's exactly. It correlates to the way we look at it today, you know, so it's, you know, very interesting that way. I'm not going to bore you with that one. But it wasn't until the 1960s that it was formally recognized as a mental disorder. And in the 1980s the diagnosis became known as attention Deficit Disorder, with or without hyperactivity. And then in the 80s, which is our generation, they changed the name of the disorder to add. It was called High Hyperkinetic reaction of Childhood. But scientists still believe that hyperactivity was not a common symptom of the, of the disorder. That was 1980. And then in 1987, hyperactivity distinction was removed because obviously they are correlated. And ADD and ADHD were combined to ADHD just as is. I'm qu. I'm getting to your. What you want to talk about soon, so bear with me. According to the cdc, ADHD is most often identified in the elementary school years. However, adults can demonstrate symptoms and be diagnosed as well. That obviously makes sense. You were just a child who had it and was never diagnosed and now you're an adult. Symptoms. Okay, and real quick, the APA included the three symptoms of inattentiveness, impulsivity and hyperactivity into a single list of symptoms and did not identify subtypes of. Of the disorder. Anyway, okay, so a combined adhd, add, and then there are. I was curious about you. Predominantly inattentive type ADHD or predominantly hyperactive impulsive adhd. Where do you think you fit in that?

[Danielle]

Well, I. Yeah, yeah, I've looked into all of this and you know, and I've spoken about it with my therapist and I've spoken about it with the person, you know, the man who, the, the psych psychiatrist who diagnosed me. And you know, I don't think again, there's you have the. You have this list of criteria for each sub. For each subtype with a. You could go through the three subtypes, say what they are.

[Adam]

It's not the three but the. It's inattentiveness versus hyperactivity and impulsiveness which kind of correlate into the three.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And then there's the third one. Correct. So which is the combination of the two.

[Adam]

Correct. That's why I just broke them down to the two.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So it's pretty much the inattentiveness is struggle to follow instructions, appearing not to listen when spoken to, become easily distracted, having difficulty following through on tasks or assignments, losing or forgetting things or events. That one, hyperactivity, fidgeting or squirming, being unable to remain seated for long periods. Take talking non, stop, learning out answers, being impatient, on and on and on and on. Those kinds of things. So go ahead.

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[Danielle]

Yeah, that's. I mean, which do you think I would have?

[Adam]

Oh, the inattentiveness symptoms. Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle]

I mean for, for sure. And a few of the others. And you know, a lot of. I went to a sound bath last week. I don't know if I told you about this. Do you know what a sound bath is?

[Adam]

No.

[Danielle]

So a sound bath is like you sit in a chair. My friend brought me one of her friends does it. She's. I don't know, a sound bather. I don't know what the term is. Don't even know. But it was really cool. It was so different than anything I'd done. And I am very much like. I can't sit for periods, long periods of time. But what this is, is you. I can sit for long periods of time and do what?

[Adam]

I mean, you can sit like if you have your phone.

[Danielle]

Right? Well, this is not that.

[Adam]

So.

[Danielle]

So this is. So I'm. You're sit. Well, I'm sure they're all different, but I'm sitting in my. In like a. It's like a zero gravity chair, very comfortable. You have a blanket on like a sleep mask over My eyes. And there she has all of these amazing, like, Tibetan bowls and these glass harps. And, like, her whole. The whole room was, like, filled with these. They don't look like instruments. They look. Some of them look like, you know, instruments, but they look like bowls. And. And she, you know, one of those things that sounds like rain that she does back and forth and whatever, and she basically makes all of these different sounds throughout the whole session. And you're just kind of laying there listening, and, you know, it's like half meditation, half. I mean, it's therapeutic and everything. And I was really nervous to go to it because I know how fidgety I am and. And, yeah, I don't want to be the one who's like, you know, I'm, like, scratching my legs and moving my chair and all that. Like, I can't sit still. And I couldn't. I mean, it was. I couldn't. I still very much enjoyed it, but I couldn't. You know, I wasn't, like, meditating or anything. I was listening and enjoying it and appreciating just sitting there, not having to do anything. And it's very, very cool. It's like, if you get into it more deeply, it's all about the chakras and all that stuff that I don't know and understand that much about. But definitely the. A lot of the. The sounds are. They kind of reverberate through your body. Right. And they're supposed to, like, give you certain responses. And I very, very much. I asked the woman after, I was like, do you find that different personalities sort of, like, react differently to different. Different noises and everything? She's like, yeah, everybody's, you know, different and unique. I was sort of like. Because I was most responsive to the really overpowering sounds. Those were the ones that hit me the most. You know, the other ones I sort of listen to and enjoy. But, like, the overpowering ones, like the gong type sound.

[Adam]

That makes sense. I understand.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Because I think that I need that extra hit of whatever it is. Like, that's the. So one of the what?

[Adam]

That's kind of how you are all around.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

You know, like, massages totally need to, like. You need to be, you know, beaten up.

[Danielle]

Okay.

[Adam]

Sex. You need to be like.

[Danielle]

Okay, so. Well, we'll get into that, because I. I do want a little bit talk about that. But so I. You know, there were a few things when I. When I was diagnosed that I learned about that. Really. When I first read about it, I cried so much, and I might cry now, because it made me understand so much about myself and question so much about myself. And it's, you know, there's. I don't know. See, here's the. Here's the thing. I'm going to read things that I studied. I got diagnosed, what, a month and a half ago maybe, And I bet I know so much more than you. And you've. You were diagnosed at what, 11, 12?

[Adam]

No, I was diagnosed at like, 17.

[Danielle]

Okay, so four. How many years ago is that? 30? Yeah, 30 years ago. You tell me if you've ever heard of this before. Rds.

[Adam]

Oh, yeah.

[Danielle]

What is it?

[Adam]

Just, I want to see if, you.

[Danielle]

Know, see, like, I can't even. I mean, I ran to start researching as soon as I.

[Adam]

So we're different that way. You know what, you know what's going to happen with this episode? We're going to do me next episode like we did, like the reverse. Okay, we did last time where we did mine and then yours. So I don't need to get into my stuff today. Okay, so we'll do that next.

[Danielle]

Okay, but. But the point is, is that I.

[Adam]

But I want to respond to that next time.

[Danielle]

Okay? But I was. So. I just wanted to learn about myself more and I wanted to learn about myself more also because I was like, holy shit, now I can actually do something about all of this. And so, you know, and I know it affects a lot. It affects a lot in my life. It affects a lot in our life with my kids, you know, so RDS is reward deficiency syndrome. And that is a component of adhd. Not for everybody, but basically, to break it down, I want to see if I can explain it correctly. And this was really, for me, the biggest, I don't know, aha moment or like, and. And mind fuck at the same time. So there's this. There's this genetic component of adhd. And. And I'm going to have to. Everyone will have to forgive me because I'm going to explain it incorrectly because I am. Science is not my forte, so I'm gonna have to put it in as layman terms as I can, but basically you have like a dopamine react. A dopamine reactor in your brain, right? And sometimes adhd, if you have adhd, it affects the dopamine reactor, which basically means what most people can find. And you know, again, this also was probably somewhat connected also to serotonin, which I also lack. So it's all of the above. But the, the, the dopamine, in order to get a dopamine Hit. Right. Like, some people, you see them on a walk, and they're like, it. Oh, you know, this is my happiness. Just walking or whatever. And, like. And. And they.

[Adam]

Like a runner's high or those.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Or like, they take a bite of a piece of cake and they're like, that was satisfying. And, like, they're done. Or, you know, they. They dabbled in drugs here and there, but, like, that was fine and they were good. Or. Or they can have one glass of wine at dinner. You know, like, the normal things that people get, you know, that little hit of dopamine. But if you have. I'm not. This isn't all ADHD by any means, but this is.

[Adam]

Well, there's no such. None of this stuff. Everybody. All cases.

[Danielle]

Correct. But, you know, I'm gonna get messages of people like, I don't know. Okay, so basically, you need so much more of that. Of whatever it is in order to hit that dopamine.

[Adam]

That makes sense.

[Danielle]

Yes. And so for me, I've always described myself since I was little. Right. I always say I had my first cigarette when I was 8 years old. My friend and I were in the woods, eight years old, and it was all. Nobody pressured me to do it. I was like, I want to fucking do this. Like, I want to try this. And, you know, my first drink when I was, I don't know, 12, 13. I don't know.

[Adam]

Wow. I'm so surprised how much. How different we were at those ages, you know?

[Danielle]

Yeah. I was. Well, okay. So. So here's the thing. So I was very promiscuous at a very young age. I. You know, when I was in middle school, I was. I wasn't having sex, but I had a boyfriend, and, you know, we were doing just about everything. But I really hope my parents listen to this episode.

[Adam]

I'm learning a lot about you.

[Danielle]

You do?

[Adam]

I mean, really, I knew most of it. I did, but I'm just. I guess I'm realizing maybe for the first time how. How different we were and how not like, that I was until, like, high.

[Danielle]

School, and then I was very advanced, and then I.

[Adam]

And then I was, you know, I was all in.

[Danielle]

Right. Okay. So. So basically, if you have that aspect of adhd, you're much more prone to, quote, unquote, risky behaviors. And for me, who. I have a debt, you know, my identity has been so built on this. I'm a wild child. I'm a, you know, this wild human who likes to live on the edge and, you know, and all this stuff and, like, Looking at my siblings and everything being like. Right, right. But it's true, like looking at them being like, oh, well, you know, they're very, very like straight and narrow and they have their head on their shoulders. You know, they're fun, but they like know how to keep it in check.

[Adam]

I thought you were going to say disappointment compared to your brother.

[Danielle]

Well, that too, but. But they know how to keep it in check. Right. And you know, I've always been the one who couldn't keep it, any of it in check. And I always say looking back, and I know a lot of us in who grew up in the 80s and 90s say this, right? Like we did such stupid fucking shit because, you know, we weren't there. Number one, there wasn't social media to like, you know, record it all. Number two, our parents, like didn't give a shit where we were and you know, all the things. So we got away with more. But also I was, I really, I mean, I had such risky behavior and you know, people who have this dopamine thing or you know, deficiency.

[Adam]

I was just going to ask you, is it a deficiency in people?

[Danielle]

Some people have a hyper of it and some people have a less than.

[Adam]

A hyper of it.

[Danielle]

A negative. Yes.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Danielle]

So they are more likely to, you know, to engage in high risk behaviors. For instance, speeding, extreme sports. I, I don't have either of those. But you know, that, that, that rush of. No, a lot of it, they say is connected to. Also to the impulsive decisions. Right. That you have these, you make these impulsive decisions. I don't think that's me as much.

[Adam]

Okay. Yeah, I agree.

[Danielle]

I mean, for sure, I did plenty of dumb without thinking about the consequences.

[Adam]

But it's not even just dumb. Impulsivity is not just about some things. It's about saying something or doing something.

[Danielle]

Oh, for sure.

[Adam]

But without thinking about it. And it doesn't have to be bad. It could be good.

[Danielle]

And it has cons. But it has.

[Adam]

But it has consequences. Yes.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Trust me, when we do me, I'm getting into all that stuff that's.

[Danielle]

Are we doing you next week? Because you have to research it now.

[Adam]

This week.

[Danielle]

No, I have had it for 30 years and now you have to research.

[Adam]

No, no, no, no. I've laid out all. Look at, at this, look at this page. Like all my stuff. Not all. A brief collection of my stuff. But, but that's. Go ahead. I don't want to. Yeah.

[Danielle]

Okay. So addictive behaviors including substance use and gambling. I mean, I don't have Gambling. Although when we go to Atlantic City, I don't want to stop. Well, not anymore.

[Adam]

I'm very anymore. Because we haven't been there in six years.

[Danielle]

No, we were there once with friends. Okay, fine. But even that night, I was like, I gambled for like an hour, and then I was like, okay, I'm done, because I'm just not into it anymore. But when I was younger and we would go, right. Oh, my God. I was like, it was crazy. And same thing, you know, I. Look, I don't drink every day. I don't, you know, I'm not the type. I don't go out and drive or whatever. But, like, people are like, oh, I'm gonna sit down and have a glass of wine. I don't drink during the week because I know I can't just have a glass of wine.

[Adam]

Agreed.

[Danielle]

And. And you know, there's a reason for that. Look, I've always been prone to smoking. Smoking is a very, very pervasive vice addiction, whatever. With people with adhd, especially women. That's one of the. One of the things that I looked up, a significant increase. And acting on negative feelings, including self harm. I don't have that. But a lot of people, you know, who have like, skin picking or cutting or whatever, like, whatever you do, you need more. Like you said, when I go for a massage, I'm like, you need to beat the. Out of me. Like, none of this. Like, none of this Swedish.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm in the tickle room. You're in the right.

[Danielle]

Right. But everything, like, I, you know, I. I can't. I overdo it on everything. And so for me, who grew up thinking, like, I was just this black sheep in my family who, you know, who couldn't. Who had this edge to me, right? This, like, I need to live on the edge and stuff. And that's how I've sort of identified myself my whole life. And I think it's actually been very beneficial to me in a lot of ways. Also very toxic in a lot of ways. But now looking back, and of course, I can't be mad at my parents because they had no clue. It just wasn't a thing for girls, Right?

[Adam]

Of course, not even just girls. Boys too. I mean, it was becoming a thing when we were kids, hence when I was diagnosed. But I was diagnosed even late for when we were kids, right? So. So, yes, so definitely it took much, much longer for girls to be diagnosed than boys. But it wasn't. When we were little, our parents, our. Our teachers, they. They didn't know about this. Doctors knew about it.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

You know, therapists knew about it.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So if you were, you know, a problem kid, if you were a bad kid, if you, you know, all, all the labels that they would give you because they didn't know there was something behind it that.

[Danielle]

Yeah, well, I had that in school, too. I mean, I always tell the stories of, you know, my siblings and I went to the same school, you know, throughout. And I would go into classroom. My brother's 10 years older than I am, my sister's seven years older than I am. And, you know, and I would walk in as the third child into some of these teachers rooms, and after about a week that, you know, they'd put two and two together and be like, wait, you can't be. You can't be, you know, because.

[Adam]

And similar for me, too.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And. And I, you know, I guess I just made that my identity sort of like this. Well, I am the, you know, the third child who's usually like, a little bit different and, you know, a little more wild. And they're the ones who are, you know, most likely. I made that joke at Jonah's bar mitzvah when I did a speech like, you know, third child. He's the third child. I'm the third child most likely to go to jail. Although, you know, Jonah is so not that child. But I was probably the one that my parents were worried about, you know, more so, so much than my siblings.

[Adam]

But I think that's also one of the things that can go along with it, is you found an identity in the fact that you were the black sheep of the family. Right. So now, so you go with it. You work with that. Like you, you fix.

[Danielle]

And I can't fix it.

[Adam]

It's not fix it. You fixate on the fact of how you're different. And now you have your own identity from your family, so you're your own person. You found. Not you, I'm saying in general, or maybe I'm talking about myself. So you run with that, you know, and it's things that are controllable, things that aren't controllable. But you're, you're on, you're. You're on a course now because you've kind of, whether it's right or wrong, found out who you are versus who you're having.

[Danielle]

I don't know if I agree with that, though.

[Adam]

No, I'm not saying it's agreeable or disagreeable. Well, I'm saying it's, it's, it's you're, you're kind of not pushed in a direction, but you, you're taking in how you're perceived and you, you go self fulfilling prophecy. Sure, there's a lot of good.

[Danielle]

I don't know, maybe partially. But I also know that it's not something like I could stop, you know what I mean? It's not something.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm not saying that it was conscious.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Adam]

Like, I don't think when we were kids and if, you know, going through everything that you just said, you thought to yourself, oh, this is my identity because I'm different than my siblings, I'm gonna go with it. It's just second nature. Like, that's how the mind works.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Adam]

You're not consciously thinking to yourself, I want to be different than my family.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Adam]

I want to do these negative things. It's just you're, you're gravitated towards those.

[Danielle]

Right. You know, they weren't always serving me. Sometimes they were because, look, I don't think we would have started this podcast if I didn't have that. I need something, you know, I need to have something that I can express myself and be myself and say all the things and be wild and curse as much as I want and all that stuff. And like, can't do that at like your kids preschool, you know. So I do think that it has benefited me some. Look, I think it's made me very witty, very funny, I'm very quick on my feet. But it's affected my health, it's affected my relationships. You know, I'm constantly, I think, feeling like nothing is enough to satisfy me, which is an ongoing theme that I know, which has been an ongoing theme with my therapist for years. You know, why, why can't, why can't I just feel like, satisfied and I'm not talking to you.

[Adam]

If your therapist needs examples, I've got plenty for you.

[Danielle]

I'm looking for all the examples.

[Adam]

No, there's probably plenty that you're not even aware of.

[Danielle]

All right, well, anyway, I know that about myself. I am self aware just now, the, the idea that, look, I'm not upset about being diagnosed with ADHD or anything, that to me wasn't a mind fuck. It's these realizations that come from it. The, holy shit, this is why. And I know Mia felt that so much at 15, you know, and in many ways she's probably more, I don't know what the word is, maybe was more affected by it in certain ways because I don't know if I have the social component as much. But. But to find that out at 47 years old. It was. Yeah, it was 47. It was right after my birthday. It's a mind fuck. Because your entire identity. And now you're like, well, wait a minute. Which is how much of this is me, actually? Or how much of this has been this condition, this illness that I, you know, quote unquote illness. I hate even.

[Adam]

It's all you. I mean, you know, that's part of who you are.

[Danielle]

Well, except that I. It is a strange thing to think about. Cause when you sort of self identify as something for one reason and then you're realizing that that really wasn't it.

[Adam]

Right. But what I found is, and I'll get into more of this in the next episode, is it's almost like finding out you're like Superman. You have these special powers, but you have kryptonite too. And how this is just what I've realized in the last maybe year or two.

[Danielle]

You hear this on Rogan. I just. You know what I've decided. I'm sorry. And then I'll let you speak. I'm so sorry, but I've decided that like, you know how in south park they kill Kenny every episode? I think I need to make a Joe Rogan joke. From now on in every episode until the end of time, go for it.

[Adam]

It doesn't offend me in any way.

[Danielle]

Okay, I know and I enjoy it.

[Adam]

But I have found like my super strengths within the adhd. Like, I found how I can benefit from. Trust me, this is only a year or two that I've come to this realization. I found my weaknesses. I found my strengths. I found how can I stop the weaknesses from controlling me and how can I better them? And how can I better my strengths into being more productive? Right? So like I said, I'll get into all of that later on. But I think there is some kind of like power within having something like this that you wouldn't have otherwise.

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[Adam]

Race the Rudders, Race the sails.

[Danielle]

Race the Sails.

[Adam]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

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[Danielle]

Oh, agreed. And I think that about every. Listen, my ocd. I mean, as much as. Look, now, it's. It impacts me, but, I mean, there was a time when, you know, trigger warning, but I was suicidal from it. I mean, when I was pregnant, if I hadn't been pregnant with Mia, I don't know what would have happened. You know, that was the only thing that really kept me going was the fact to me that.

[Adam]

Wait, say that again. You were suicidal from your OCD when.

[Danielle]

I was pregnant with Mia.

[Adam]

Right. But you just said, had you not been pregnant, you don't know what would have happened. Yeah, but you don't think the pregnancy kind of elevated that level.

[Danielle]

True, because I wouldn't have gone off my medication had my doctor told me, you guys can go back and listen to those episodes about my ocd. But, yeah, I. You know, I. It's been awful in a lot of ways. Also people with ocd, because again, something that I've, you know, researched so much and, like, when. And one thing I do, I have always done is hold my therapists accountable, too. Because sometimes if I say something and they don't know about it, I'm sort of like, that's up. Like, they know that and they're not oc. This. I used to go to an OCD specialist. I don't anymore. But, like, I'm sorry, but I. Therapy is expensive. Like, I shouldn't need to tell you something about my condition. Like, I would hope that you're going and, you know, kind of trying to research it yourself and not to put down therapists, especially right now. You guys are holding the world together. But sometimes I'm sort of like, I don't know, maybe you could have, like, you know, my personality. You could have. But our therapist.

[Adam]

Sorry to interrupt you, but our therapists are there specialists in ADHD and ocd. And so. But if you go to a therapist who's not a specialist in those things, do they have. They typically have ideas about.

[Danielle]

Yeah, you know, yeah, they have ideas, but. But also, I've found sometimes that they. I think that they don't research much about what you're going through. And that frustrates me sometimes. And I'm not. I'M just talking about my own personal experiences. I'm not saying anything about all therapists. Right.

[Adam]

Like, what I'm saying is you shouldn't have to go to somebody for your ADHD and then somebody for your OCD and then somebody for your anxiety and then somebody for. You know, there should be kind of a general reference.

[Danielle]

Oh, that's what most therapists are. But. But to get into the real nitty gritty and everything, you really need to have, you know, a specialty in it. Like, when I was in the mid. In the thick of my ocd, I couldn't have just gone to a regular therapist.

[Adam]

Right. There should be somebody out there who's, like, an expert in all the things that you just see. One person that can.

[Danielle]

I don't know.

[Adam]

I don't know.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I know.

[Adam]

I don't know.

[Danielle]

I don't know. Well, it's. Yeah, look. And you want to be with somebody who you click with also, right? So that's another factor of it, too. Like, you can go to somebody who's an expert. Expert in your field and not feel comfortable telling them the truth. So there's a lot of components to it. But I would think, you know, your patient has something specific, and you're sort of like, maybe going and being proactive about learning about it. So anyway, I forgot where I was going with that, but. Oh, but I think that, you know, I. My entire life sort of has been, why am I like this? And that is the question I go into a lot in therapy, is why? Why? You know what? Like, when. For instance, when we get in. And if you don't want to. If you don't want to hear anything explicit, fast forward. If you are related to me or something, fast forward. When we are like, wait, give him.

[Adam]

A chance to fast forward. Because.

[Danielle]

Gotta be faster than that. When we are in, like, we go through stages, as I'm sure a lot of couples do, of, like, sex and whatever. And, like, sometimes it's like, we have it all the time. But I'm a lot of the time, the ones who's like, all right, let's go. Like. Like, we didn't have it yet today, or we didn't have it. Like, I can't balance it very much. Like, I want it all the time. You know what I mean? Like, I can't. There's no balance for me of pleasure, you know?

[Adam]

Yeah. I'm just. I'm thinking about all the feedback that we're gonna get. Like, oh, poor Adam. You know, poor. You know, like, what you Must be traumatized.

[Danielle]

Well, and that's the thing. And that's one thing that I've spoken about before in the podcast and that I speak to my therapist about also, is like, then sometimes, like, you'll go in the other room to go to sleep if, you know, whatever. If we're trying to, like, get a good night's sleep and you. And. And then I'm, like, taking out toys and stuff, and then I'm like, that. I don't want him to think that, like, you know, most women would. You're in the past, you know, year or two, our sex life is amazing. I should be able to just go to sleep after that, you know. But again, it. I. Now it all is coming together of why. Why I have this issue, why that is the case.

[Adam]

Wait, can we just point out there that you are satisfied during our sex? Like, you don't.

[Danielle]

Yeah, like I always say, most women would be. Just like, I always say that. I'm like, it's crazy because most women in the past year or two and this has taken a lot of communication and a lot of, you know, that kind of stuff. A hundred percent.

[Adam]

Yeah. I don't. I don't want to portray kind of like, we had sex and then I left and you're like, oh, it was, you know, let me take care of myself.

[Danielle]

That's what I'm saying. No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. Well, sometimes that's okay, too. But no, but that's what I'm saying is, like, that shouldn't be. I should be able to just go to sleep. You know, I spent another two hours up, like, doing whatever, and. But now, you know, it sort of makes sense, which is. Which is, I guess, a relief in some ways. I don't know if that is fixable or even if at this point I want to mess with that because it's so a part of my personality.

[Adam]

But why is that a problem? Like, what, What. What's the detriment to you, to yourself?

[Danielle]

Well, that's just one specific.

[Adam]

Right. But I think part of this is also, like, we look at things like that that aren't not a problem. They don't cause any issues with anybody.

[Danielle]

Like, I mean, I could use some sleep. I could go to sleep early.

[Adam]

Fine. I could use some sleep, too. Right? Like, whatever. It's not the end of the world. Like, it's like, you don't need to go on medication because of that. You know what I mean?

[Danielle]

I think I've never. I think for me, that you talked about kryptonite for me, that a kryptonite is discipline. And I have.

[Adam]

I'll discipline you, trust me. You just say the word self discipline. Oh, damn it.

[Danielle]

I, I, I, I've always not had much self discipline and I've, I've a lot of times had to be a. What's it called? I've had to fix the problem after it happens. Right. I've had to clean up the mess after it happens. No pun intended. And not literally, but I. Oh, you what? That was a cleaning joke.

[Adam]

Keep going.

[Danielle]

Well, I'm going to get into that. The cleaning.

[Adam]

I can't wait.

[Danielle]

You laugh again.

[Adam]

No, I'm not going to.

[Danielle]

Okay. I don't think so.

[Adam]

Scared.

[Danielle]

Anyway, I just, it, it's all, you know, it's, it's a lot to process and I'm not upset about having ADHD at all. It's just this now, you know, coming to realize that maybe my perception of myself wasn't what I thought it was. You know, maybe it was just this sort of dopamine issue.

[Adam]

That makes sense.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And, yeah, and a little bit that, that helps. And a little bit it's like, well, fuck, you know, like if someone had fucking done the research and I had known this back in the day and now, you know, I've been on medication for a few months now. Does not help with my dopamine, that's for sure.

[Adam]

So what, so what are you on? Adderall.

[Danielle]

I can't remember one of those, but it's like a generic because it's cheaper.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle]

But, yeah, Bretolin, Adderall, one of the. Whatever, whatever. Whichever was the one that, that, that worked better for me.

[Adam]

They still make Ritalin, they still make Riddle.

[Danielle]

I mean, until RFK Jr. Comes and, you know, takes it away.

[Adam]

That scares me. I already talked about it before.

[Danielle]

Ritalin.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Scares you. Well, that's just because you, that's not. Don't say that.

[Adam]

No, no, because I abused it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked about it before. Like, it's not. Yeah, right.

[Danielle]

But people may not know that. And I don't want anyone to think you think that Ritalin is.

[Adam]

Oh, no, no, no. Me personally, 100. Yeah, yeah. Because of my dopamine, especially right now deficiency and needed lots of Renalin.

[Danielle]

I mean, you have the dopamine thing too, for sure.

[Adam]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Danielle]

And the impulsivity. But we'll talk about it.

[Adam]

Yeah, I got it all.

[Danielle]

Trust me.

[Adam]

All the things you're talking about. I've got it. All plus we'll get to them. Trust me, we'll get there. Everything you're saying is 100% relatable to myself.

[Danielle]

The difference is I'm. I try to work on.

[Adam]

That's not fair. I do too. Especially in the late.

[Danielle]

Of late.

[Adam]

In. In the of late. Okay. All right, I'll get to that.

[Danielle]

Okay. But they did find that people with ADHD have an average IQ of 9 points higher.

[Adam]

That makes sense.

[Danielle]

And that might be a myth, they say, but it might be true.

[Adam]

I would have.

[Danielle]

I mean, my IQ is not great.

[Adam]

Mine is probably very high in certain things.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Adam]

Other things, it's really bad.

[Danielle]

Yeah. I mean, you are some. I mean, you are so smart in so many things.

[Adam]

It's so dumb in so many.

[Danielle]

Well, that's both, everyone.

[Adam]

Right.

[Danielle]

But anyway, so. So I. I feel like it's. It's a readjustment on my self identity, you know, how ident. How I identify.

[Adam]

I'm happy that you did that. I'm glad you're finding this.

[Danielle]

Okay, so now let's go into a little bit. I have been wanting. I've been saying for years that I think I have adhd. And you.

[Adam]

You've been. You've been saying to me that you think you've had adhd.

[Danielle]

Are you gonna do this? Are you gonna pull a. Well, I know nothing about that. How many times did you say to me you don't have adhd?

[Adam]

I don't remember, honestly.

[Danielle]

Sound like Trump.

[Adam]

Why? You don't sound like Trump.

[Danielle]

How many times did I say to you used to say you don't have adhd. You don't. You already have OCD or you. Oh, you don't remember saying that?

[Adam]

I really don't.

[Danielle]

That's insane to me.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm sorry. No, I really don't.

[Danielle]

You used to say that to me all the time. In fact, it's why I put off getting diagnosed for so long.

[Adam]

Is that true?

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Adam]

Man, I apologize.

[Danielle]

I mean, I used to say it to you all the time. How do you not remember?

[Adam]

I probably. I'd have no excuse.

[Danielle]

So when I asked you that question, you just.

[Adam]

No, I didn't. I had nothing because I don't remember.

[Danielle]

You can ask the kids of.

[Adam]

Ask the kids if you asked me.

[Danielle]

Correct. Because I used not asked you. I just used to say, I think I need to get.

[Adam]

I believe you. Yeah.

[Danielle]

You are so sure. You were like, you don't have it. You don't have any of the symptoms.

[Adam]

Huh? Okay.

[Danielle]

I have trouble believing you don't Remember that? Because it happened a lot. But I was going to ask you why you thought. And I would assume it's because, you know, I didn't manifest it in the same way as.

[Adam]

As what?

[Danielle]

As what you were used to.

[Adam]

Well, no, because I do understand the differences between boys and girls or men and women. No, no, no. For quite some time. But I just. I think I always assumed because of the other things that, you know, the OCD and the anxiety. Like I thought they were kind of those things. Right. Like, I didn't. Yeah, No, I didn't know.

[Danielle]

I mean, I could probably find old episodes.

[Adam]

Probably. Yeah.

[Danielle]

In fact, I'm sure of it.

[Adam]

You know what? Maybe I just never took it seriously and. And never even thought about it consciously.

[Danielle]

So I think maybe you also didn't want me to have something else that, like, I had to work on or I had to like, get help for.

[Adam]

Or maybe because that's mine and I don't want you to have it too. No.

[Danielle]

Is that like in 8th grade when three of my friends wouldn't speak to me because I got the same Birkenstocks? You couldn't even get a different color.

[Adam]

Wait, I don't even think we said about the difference with boys and girls. We kind of touched on it, but didn't really get into it, I guess.

[Danielle]

Sure.

[Adam]

But I guess as of now, boys are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than girls. But females are not necessarily less susceptible. Females with ADHD are likely undiagnosed for a variety of reasons, including some differences in symptoms and unequal focus on research, as they are for males. As we said before, boys are more likely to display external symptoms like hyperactivity, impulsivity, and disruptive behaviors, where girls are likely to exhibit internalized symptoms, inattentiveness, daydreaming and internalizing symptoms, and have more anxiety, more depression, those kinds of things which you can't easily see and relate to having adhd. Anything you want to further on that, that is. Yeah, it's in a nutshell. I get it.

[Danielle]

It's very quick because again, there. There are certain things. Okay, I'm gonna say a little bit and you can always edit it out later. Look, I married into a family that was very traditional in gender roles. Right. I didn't grow up with a family. Very traditional role.

[Adam]

That's ok. Yeah, sure.

[Danielle]

I married into a family that was very. And again, black sheep. Right. I've always sort of number one because I didn't agree with it all, was sort of ostracized. A little bit. And then on top of it, you know, it was a lot of women in the kitchen and cleaning up and all that stuff, and men sitting down, doing whatever. And I would be more like the conversationalist, right, who like, you know, there were like 12 women doing one thing in the kitchen. And I would be like having a conversation with somebody because I'm good at that. And I really did want to try to get to know people and everything, and I was always ostracized for it. And, you know, one of the things that I read about, because again, I'm trying to read up on the things that affect me, is that, you know, ADHD very, very negatively impacts, or I should say the other way around, gender roles and traditional gender roles very, very much negatively impacts women with adhd. Because, you know, there's. There's a time and spatial awareness that, that comes with ADHD or a lack thereof where you just. And I've always had this, I've always said this. You know, it's a reason why people with ADHD are late, right? Or they can't find their keys or all that stuff. It's this lack of spatial and time awareness. And also the idea that, you know, you're off in 12 different directions when you're concentrating on one thing. And I can sit literally in a room and look at everything in there and, and, and scan it. And it would be like if I was a robot, it would, like, I would malfunction. You know, I, I can't. Even though I know that things go places and everything, I can't. There's. I'm not receptive to that. And so, you know, there's a lot of things with, like, cleaning and everything like that, that it's like, oh, she's so messy. She's so. And a lot of it is literally a spatial awareness thing. I was, I've been punished a lot and looked down upon a lot for, again, what you think of as traditional gender roles, right? Keeping the house neat, being on top of the sea schedule. Those kinds of things that, like, I have known deep down inside were something more than just, I don't want to. That's not it. Nobody. I don't want my house to be chaos. I don't want people, you know, to have to spend two hours making it look even somewhat presentable when people come over, you know, And I can no longer blame it on, oh, I have a one year old and a three year old. No, my kids are fucking older and they don't have any toys.

[Adam]

So no, my. My thing is here, like, my debt. Like, all the things that are my negative influence, not influences, frustrations towards you with adhd, I need to work on, I need to fix. But, like, you're saying, like, you have this. There's nothing I can do about it. That's just the way I am.

[Danielle]

Well, that's not fair for that. No, I don't think that's true. I. I completely, completely disagree with you. First of all, I've done all the responsible things. I'm working with therapist. We talk about this all the time. I do all the research. I make a schedule for myself, and I can't stick to it. I'm doing all the right things. It's not like I'm sitting back and saying, oh, I have adhd. I don't have to work on it. Okay, there's none of that.

[Adam]

No, the way you just said it before kind of sounded like that, like, well, I have spatial awareness issues and I have adhd, and.

[Danielle]

And that's exactly what your mom would say to me, too. Like, oh, you're just saying, like, it's you, and that's. There's no. There's nothing you can do.

[Adam]

No, but that's how it sounded before.

[Danielle]

I mean, when do I ever not work on something for myself ever?

[Adam]

No, you. I'm using this one thing that you just spoke about as. As an example that you don't.

[Danielle]

I would. Well, I was saying I don't want to be that person. It's really. It's not, like, okay for. For phone calls and stuff, right? For things that are hard for me, like making phone calls and stuff, right? Really, really hard for me. Like, my sister sometimes makes phone calls for me because she knows how hard it is. And, you know, and it's something that I have really worked on. And, like, there are days when I will make an appointment for something. I will call, and they'll be like, okay, I have to check with the doctor. Can you call me back? And I'll be like. Or can I call you back? And I'll be like, no, no, this was my phone call.

[Adam]

Yeah, I get that.

[Danielle]

This was my phone call, and I can't do it again. You know, stuff like that. Like, I. And I'm trying. And then I'm like, no, no, no. Like, you have to. You have to understand how, like, the fact that I have to call for them to call in my anxiety medication is. Is the most ridiculous thing in the entire world.

[Adam]

You need to. I'm. A lot of people are probably going to disagree with this, and you probably will too, but we need to get it through Amazon because they make it so easy. Like, I switch.

[Danielle]

No, you can't do stimulants through there though.

[Adam]

Well, I switched Mia's medication to Amazon.

[Danielle]

Not. Not her. You can't switch her stimulants. Stimulants has to be. The person has to.

[Adam]

Or.

[Danielle]

Or an adult over 18 has to go in person.

[Adam]

Oh, is that true?

[Danielle]

Okay, yeah. Yeah. Like the same reason why you can't get like cold medicine now without someone coming and unlocking it.

[Adam]

The worst.

[Danielle]

I'm sure RFK Jr old, the worst.

[Adam]

Thing happened to me this week is we had a problem with Verizon from our. Before we moved with our account that it was over a year and a half ago and they've been charging us for the last year and a half after I called and chatted and emailed and all the things to cancel that account. And they obvious they didn't cancel it. So we owe eighteen hundred dollars to Verizon because it's a year and a half later. So I didn't have a way to contact them. You can't like email them, you can't chat them because there's no record of anything. So I happen to know somebody who works for Verizon. I said to them, I'm getting threatening emails from Verizon saying, you owe this amount of money. We're going to report you to a credit agency or, you know, collection agency or whatever it is. Can you help me? Like, is there something you can do? He got me in touch with somebody who called me and it's been three weeks that we've been back and forth with. There's no. I can't email her proof of anything. I can't chat with her or anything. All I can do is talk. Like, all I can do is make phone calls. That's all I can do. It's like she calls me every day, 8 o'clock in the morning to go over the situation. I can't email her proof. I can't. I said, please email me. I'll just reply. We don't have access to email. Like all we can do is talk on the phone. My stress levels about this. Yeah, not answering, you know, every other day I don't answer the phone because I don't want to deal with the conversation. I like, I'm just saying I understand what you're saying. Like in a situation like that where there's no alternative, but a phone call stresses me the fuck out. So you Never told me you were going for testing.

[Danielle]

Correct.

[Adam]

Would you like me to come with you? For. To talk to the doctor?

[Danielle]

No, no, not about this. No.

[Adam]

Okay. I. I thought it could help. I mean.

[Danielle]

Help with what? No, you don't need to tell him all the things I like.

[Adam]

It's not. No, not for that reason. I could be.

[Danielle]

By the way, did you know she does have you check this off?

[Adam]

No, but. But even if I did, that, that could be a benefit to the doctor to help with your, you know, whatever.

[Danielle]

That's not really what they're. They're helping with at this point.

[Adam]

They're just like medication, like.

[Danielle]

No, no, no, no. It's sort of like processing it, you know, like it's sort of processing it. And, you know, honestly, there isn't much from. From all the research I've done. And I'm sure you'll know because I'm sure you've done the same kind of research. Is. I mean, it is. There is part of me that's jealous that you've known this for 30 years.

[Adam]

And I'm dealing with it.

[Danielle]

Okay. But anyway.

[Adam]

No, they're kind of upset about that.

[Danielle]

What?

[Adam]

That you don't realize or recognize the fact that I've worked very hard on finding what I know to be my faults.

[Danielle]

You have. In the past few. Few months.

[Adam]

Well, a few months.

[Danielle]

Oh, yeah, a few months. Oh, yeah, a few months.

[Adam]

All right. Keep going.

[Danielle]

Overwhelms me with how far you've come. Overwhelmed me in so many ways. And in a good way like that, you have.

[Adam]

No, I know what you mean.

[Danielle]

Impressed me.

[Adam]

So I think if you think back 10 years and then think back two years.

[Danielle]

I am not a believer that someone can do this on their own. I am not a believer that someone can get to the bottom of situations without therapy or medicine.

[Adam]

No, no, no, I. I agree with.

[Danielle]

You, but you're not doing any of that. No, you were my therapy and that's fair. Well, we definitely, obviously have to do a follow up. Yeah, there's like a lot of stuff we didn't talk about. We didn't even get to executive dysfunction, although we kind of talked about it. But. Yeah, but the gender roles thing, you know, I think that that's also one of the things that is hard because I think women especially, and I'm sure men who struggle with it too, and, you know, it hurts them with work or it hurts them in relationships, for sure. You know, it's a hard thing. The one difference maybe I would say from that is that you guys you know, had the access to find out about it because it was a studied thing. We did. Not sure. But I do have to say, you know, the whole. I mean, gender roles are so fucked on so many levels, but this especially makes it really hard. And I think that, you know, there's a lot of. I have a lot of, like, pain about that or hurt from that. From the beginning of our marriage and, you know, the relationship with your. Your family and everything. And I always, you know, wanted to say to them, like, I don't think you understand. I'm not in there, because I don't know how to be a part of that. And, like, you know, and so that was always really hurtful because I wasn't, like, doing it on purpose. I just didn't know how. But, you know, that's just, like, one of the things that I'm like, makes sense now. And I wish I had had that to be able to say, but also, like, would that have been a valid excuse even? You know, So I don't know. There's a lot of judgment. And, you know, when it comes to gender roles, I think that people need to be patient. And, you know, and women are just starting to get diagnosed. Even though it's been a few years, women are just starting to realize, like, oh, shit, maybe that's me too. So.

[Adam]

Well, yeah, because like we said, it's so hard to see in women and girls because it's so internalized.

[Danielle]

All right, well, that was easy.

[Adam]

What else you want to talk about?

[Danielle]

I want to watch Severance.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Danielle]

All right, guys, actually, maybe after the season, we should do, like, a mini episode on Severance.

[Adam]

No.

[Danielle]

Oh.

[Adam]

Do you even know what's going on?

[Danielle]

Because Mia does. Our daughter.

[Adam]

I know, but we're having problems, like, watching, right? Like, one episode is so different from the other. We don't know where we are, what's going on.

[Danielle]

Right.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Okay. All right, well, anyway, we'll be back with ADHD Part 2 soon. Please rate and review. You guys have been so awesome. I asked everyone to rate and review because I don't know if you know this, but we were a little rape bombed on Apple and Spotify by people who were pissed off about our political views. So, anyway. But people were so awesome, Our podcast listeners. I was like, look, you guys message me all the time, and I'm so grateful and I love it, and I read all those messages. But, like, if you could go write that on Apple or, you know, Spotify, that'd be amazing. That's very helpful. So people have Been awesome. Also right now we're sort of like in between podcast platforms.

[Adam]

Yeah, I was gonna say that.

[Danielle]

Which is exciting. Well, we'll tell more about it next time. Time.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm just saying there might be a delay. There might be a week off or something like that.

[Danielle]

And also our, our income that comes from ads might be affected. And it's already affected because on Instagram I've become a full blown political activist.

[Adam]

Oh, really?

[Danielle]

No, don't check.

[Adam]

Why, why am I asking?

[Danielle]

Don't check.

[Adam]

Why am I, Why am I seeming surprised?

[Danielle]

Yeah, a little bit. But anyway, so you know, so the people who aren't the political activists are becoming the. They're getting all the brand deals right now basically and everything. So anyway, so if you want to go to buymeacoffee.com marriage martinis and buy us a coffee, a lot of people have and it's been really, really nice. Or get our date night book, something to support us reconnect is for 15 off and just. Thank you guys. This is. I have to say though, our community has been saving us through. Saving me through this. I mean really for real.

[Adam]

Oh, I know.

[Danielle]

They've been saving me. No, for real. Yeah, I don't, I don't that I could do this without them.

[Adam]

I know. Okay.

[Danielle]

I mean that. All right, thanks guys. Love you.

[Adam]

Love you.

[Danielle]

See you next week.

[Adam]

Bye.

[Danielle]

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