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- [00:00]
A
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B
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A
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B
I want people to understand how difficult a conversation and honest conversation this is to have. Right. Like most podcasts, don't touch this shit with a 10 foot pole. They'll just tell you how to do your finances.
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A
We weren't taught this stuff in school growing up, you know, back in the 80s, the last thing that I can remember learning is like how to write a check. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Marriage of Martinis. I'm Adam, here is Danielle.
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B
Hi.
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A
All right, so we're talking about finances in a nice, positive way, like a general, you know, all around experience that we've gone through. Like, not a, we're not doing like a fighting episode. We're not doing like we're gonna get into it. Just, just kind of an overall experience as we've experienced.
- [01:31]
B
Well, yeah, I also think it might be reflective of where we are in our relationship. This, you know, we've done finance episodes in the past from a very different place, from a place of great divide in like the whole financial territory of our lives. You know, you sort of having this one role in it all, me having another role in it all, and us not really ever converging on it. And I think that that great divide just caused so much hostility and resentment and, and, you know, and when it came down to it, very unhealthy financial situation.
- [02:27]
A
Yeah, look, in the past we've done episodes like you just said, about the divide, about blame, about, you know, faults, all those things. Then we did a episode with the how to Money guys a while back.
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B
Oh, that was so long ago.
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A
So long ago. But I'm, I, I'm thinking some of this stuff is going to be repetitive from stuff we've talked about before, but so I've just kind of wanted to.
- [02:49]
B
Well, I was thinking about that because we have done episodes about finances before and obviously last week we did the mental load. And in our dynamic, you and me, you can't talk about the mental load without finances. And also, though, even the stories that I've told in the past or you've told in the past, I think our perspectives have somehow shifted a little bit. I think we have more empathy for one another. I know that there is still on, you know, on both of our ends for a long time. There will be residual, you know, frustration and, you know, and, and a feeling of inequity and unfairness in all of it, you know, and just this lack of overall communication about it. And that's one of the things that is, you know, my thing is. So I just asked all these Instagram polls and it's funny because I ask Instagram polls all the time and I'm always so, you know, I'm so grateful for how open and honest people are usually. And I think about things like that are really hard to talk about, right? That we talk about all the time. We're used to it. Like I said with this episode, most people won't touch finances with a ten foot pole. But we're morons. So we do it and we have no shame anymore.
- [04:17]
A
Yes and no.
- [04:18]
B
I mean, no, I'm saying we're morons in the fact that, like, we'll talk about everything because, you know, that's just what we do, you know, and we want other people to feel then like they can follow. But when, When. Even before I posted the questions for the polls, I had a thought to myself, which is, you know, we do, like I said, things like sex and intimacy, which is a very hard thing to talk about. You know, things about the mental load, things about, you know, parenting and. And I feel like with all of those, I get very, very honest answers. I feel like the polls for something like this are hard to trust because I don't even think people know where they're at with their finances. I don't think they truly understand the impact that it has on a relationship. I don't think that people talk about it nearly enough. Like, I think with sex and intim. Intimacy, look, if you're not having sex or you're not content, you know, and happy and excited about the sex you're having, that's evident, right? Like you, you don't want to have it, right?
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A
The difference is when you're talking about sex and intimacy, like, that's a fun thing to get into, right?
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B
Like, no, not for a lot of couples.
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A
A lot of couples, okay.
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B
But very touchy.
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A
It could be touchy. And then once they get over that, you know, it's more of like, oh, hey, like, this is what I maybe need from you, or this is what you need. Like, I think it's an easier bridge to cross. I don't know where finances is, like, an ugly, boring, overwhelming topic, but for you're.
- [06:01]
B
You're looking at our relationship. For us, it's much easier to tackle the intimacy stuff. I think that's. I think there are a lot of couples out there where probably finances maybe is more comfortable for them than intimacy. They might be much more comfortable discussing finances.
- [06:18]
A
Totally agree. But I feel like the end result when you're thinking about it is like, okay, if we talk about sex, and here's what I would like from you, and vice versa, you can see what's happening on the other end. Right. Like, you know what's coming. Right. That's what she said. So when you're talking about finances, it's just like, oh, okay. And then we'll be budgeted. Great. You know what I mean? Like, there's no immediate satisfaction of, like, the sex talk, you know, so it's. It's kind of more.
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B
I think it's way more complicated.
- [06:53]
A
Of course it is. I'm simplifying it. Of course. But, yeah, I'm just saying, like, I think it's maybe an easier gap to, you know, whatever it needs your hump to get over. Sure. All the buttons. Yeah, all the things.
- [07:11]
B
I see what you're saying. And also it's. Look, it all depends on the relationship. You know, you might have grown up in a very healthy financial environment. I don't know many people who did, but I know a lot of people who think they did.
- [07:24]
A
But even if you did, I mean, it's an. It's a different time. Things are different. It's not as easy or hard in certain areas of financial stability. You know, back from when you were growing up or what, you know, things change, and things are so different now, especially that it's just even harder to try to make this all efficient or budgeting or, you know, make things work or, you know, it. It's a hard.
- [07:51]
B
But this is one of those things where I would. I wish that I could get the perspectives from both partners. Right. Like with. Again, with sex and intimacy and stuff. If you say you're not enjoying the sex you're having, that's your experience. You know that to be true. If you say, yeah, we're doing great with our finances. We're just fine, but you don't have actual involvement in it, or you're not feeling the ramifications of making, you know, paying all the bills and being up to date with everything, then that's, you know, I don't know, is your partner going to say the same thing or are they going to be like, I don't know what the fuck they're talking about? We are struggling. So this is one of those things where I really wish that I could get both perspectives. And I so far have been surprised about some of the numbers that, you know, look, if people are doing great financially and it is not a strain on their relationship and they're not just passive aggressively, like, not talking about it and everything, fantastic. Like, mazel tov. But, but I, I, I'm skeptical. I am skeptical.
- [09:04]
A
Well, I think this is a good time for us to be doing an episode like this because speaking of ramifications, we're finally realizing the ramifications of our mistakes, plus unexpected consequences that we're involved in of expenses that we didn't realize were going to be happening. Right. So we're, we're, we're in the pinch. We're feeling it now. And it's, we finally, because of that.
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B
Came together and started drug dealing.
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A
And started drug dealing. So you can find us on the corner if you need a little something something.
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B
Either way, we'll do anything, but, but depending on the offer, you know, so.
- [09:45]
A
I don't know, you know, I don't know how most marriages work. Right. So, but, you know, we, for so many years was, I was kind of paying the bills, taking care of the finances, the savings and all that stuff and you involved the savings. Well, there were, there were. Right. Now there's not. But there were. So I, you know. How old are we? 47.
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B
No, 20. 46 and 11 months.
- [10:18]
A
Almost 47. Yeah. So at, finally, at 47, we're coming together and, and actually communicating. Right. We have nothing solved. We have nothing done.
- [10:32]
B
This is not an advice episode. If we have ever said we're not experts in anything.
- [10:38]
A
Yes.
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B
Listen to us this time.
- [10:41]
A
No, but there's a, for the first time, there's an understanding on both of our parts. There's a realization. There's, okay. All the shit that we've done in the past. Great, we'll talk about it. You know what? It was fun. We had a great time. We're paying for it now, but great. Now this is where we need to be. And I think that's an amazing first step that we've finally come to an agreement and understanding on.
- [11:14]
B
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, it's trauma bonding. We're trauma bonding. Yeah, I, I think that also, look, it's, it's a, it's a ripple effect. Right? It's a domino effect. It is a You've stepped up in a lot of ways and. And shown the importance of respecting and valuing my needs just recently.
- [11:42]
A
Oh, come on.
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B
I mean, it's been, you know, relatively speaking. And I think that, again, like I say with the challenge and everything, you know, those big change, small change, big impact challenge, it's a reciprocality that you want to keep doing. Right. Like, it feels really good to do something for, you know, to recognize something from your partner that's meaningful and you fulfill it. And then you see the way that they reciprocate just naturally. Right. Like, it's just. And then that just kind of keeps going. And I think that we've done a really good job recently of being consistent with that. I think we're both very much stepping up.
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A
I agree. And for the first time, like you were saying about me stepping up for your needs, it's the same thing happening the other way around.
- [12:36]
B
Yeah.
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A
Like, you're finally stepping up for the needs that I have, and we're doing it for each other. Right. And so, like, if. What if I do it for you or you do it for me, Whichever we realize. Oh, they, you know, you are trying to understand what I'm saying and help me out with that. That makes it so much easier to say, okay, so, hey, wait, what does she need from me? Or what does he need for me?
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B
Yep.
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A
It just makes it so much easier to be like, yeah, I. I could do that.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, when you want. You want to do it, but, yeah, because you're not feeling the resentment. You're not feeling the she or he, you know, in our situation, you know, you're not understanding what I'm saying, and there's frustration and resentment and all those things, and why should I be helping you if you're not helping? Like, that all goes away for the most part when we start this understanding, when we start this communication.
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B
Well, I also think that there's a consistency now in the way you spend. That didn't exist before me.
- [13:38]
A
That's been a long time now. That's a long time. It's been since six years since we started this podcast. It's been a complete transformation on my end. And by the way, it's been a zero struggle. Like, I'm so, like, understanding of the reasoning behind why I'm not.
- [14:01]
B
Well, okay, let's. We can. Let's. I wanted to talk a little bit about the. This will take us to the place where I'm trying to go talking about our upbringings a little bit and how we, you know, hold on one second.
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A
I'm warm.
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B
I told you to say. It's not just me being perimenopausal. By the way, we got tons of amazing feedback about the menopause episode.
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A
Oh, really?
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B
If you have not listened to it, please go do that because we, yes, there has been and we will again have follow ups. But yeah, we got tons of great. But yes, I am warm too.
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A
But you're sweating. I'm warm.
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B
I'm always sweating. That's just my life now.
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A
You're like sweating glitter.
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B
That was probably my makeup from last night that I never washed off.
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A
Wonderful.
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B
I don't want to run out of makeup, so I'm being, I'm only washing it off like once a week.
- [14:54]
A
You're being frugal, but you're being frugal. Makeup remover. I appreciate that. Um, all right, so you were saying you wanted to talk about how we kind of grew up, the differences between the two of us, which is, and.
- [15:08]
B
Again, I, I, I want people to understand how difficult a conversation and honest conversation this is to have. Right. Like most podcasts, don't touch this shit with a 10 foot pole. They'll just tell you how to do your finances, but they're not going to be honest with you and tell you all this shit about theirs.
- [15:24]
A
Right. But just don't listen to us.
- [15:25]
B
No worries. Don't listen to us. But, but at the same time, the judgment needs to be at a, at a really low minimum because we're, we're, you know, we're sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of relationships.
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A
Well, we're sacrifice. Sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of our relationship and our children and our family.
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B
Well, we don't need to do it on the podcast.
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A
Well, we're not.
- [15:52]
B
I guess we could say that with everything But.
- [15:56]
A
Estes.
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B
Planes, 5G.
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A
The Apple.
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B
Samsung or Google and Qual Care Condition Solo and Verizon.
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A
You came from more of a. Correct me if I'm wrong. More of a savings, like watching the money kind of household. Right. Don't spend too much on everything and.
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B
Correct me if I'm wrong. I know. Like that to the.
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A
I wasn't there. I'm just.
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B
Oh, come on. You have been a part of this family for long enough that, you know. Yes. That it was. Listen. Yeah, go ahead.
- [16:59]
A
No, no, it's fine. So, so you came from that. Right. So I came from more of the. Coming from nothing, making money and enjoying it and spending it and using it. Why are you laughing?
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B
Because you're so nice.
- [17:13]
A
Well, but it's the truth. I mean, it's, you know, it's came into, you know, finally, you know, got successful, came into money and spent it. Right. Doing, you know, all the things that you, you know, to be. You consider yourself. Yourself successful and wanting to enjoy the money that you've made. Why is that?
- [17:36]
B
No, nothing. I'm not. I. This is a conversation for another time.
- [17:39]
A
Okay, that's fine. I. Look, I know there's layers. I know there's. Yeah, give me more of those therapy words. There's layers.
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B
How about just therapy?
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A
Okay.
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B
Like, just go talk about it in therapy.
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A
Right, sure. But the. But the. The difference and the similarities are that you were kind of the outcast of your family with spending. I was just.
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B
You fit right in.
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A
I fit right in? Yeah.
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B
So I would say when you and I started dating, look, again, I. By no means. I grew up very privileged in so many ways. Right. Like, you know, again, my father, Education to him was everything, and I think it was really a lot to do with my grandfather. Didn't, you know, didn't go to college, didn't finish high school. He had to help support his family. You know, he opened up a. A business, a paper company or something. I don't quite quite understand it.
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A
You don't know what he did?
- [18:38]
B
I. I kind of do, but, like, I think he did a lot of different things. You know, like, he was sort of. He had his. I know that he was like junkyard. No, that was the wrong grandfather.
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A
Oh, the other grandfather.
- [18:49]
B
I'm talking about my dad's dad. I know he was responsible for footing. Putting the first TV in a hospital.
- [18:57]
A
Really?
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B
Yeah. But I don't know much. We have to ask my dad more about that.
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A
Okay.
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B
But anyway, he had, like, a lot of different things. He. And. And I think his dream, you know, for his son. He had two kids, but his dream for his son was for him to be a doctor. And, you know, and I think that my dad kind of like, you know, he felt the pressure of that. I think that he really felt like. And, you know, at the time when I was growing up, I was always a little bit. I was frustrated with my dad a lot because, you know, to me it was cheap. Right? It was. He wouldn't spend because, you know, he always had this real, like, real visceral concern about, like, being. Getting, you know, losing all the money and. And, you know, and he wasn't. He was a doctor. But again, you know, he worked in an inner city. He worked, you know, He. He was the doctor you want to have. Right. He was the doctor who didn't kick you out after 45 minutes. If you had a concern.
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A
45 minutes these days, what are you in there for? Four minutes.
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B
Right. But that was my dad, and everybody knew it. If you say his name where we live, it's. He. It is like Robin Hood, you know, And. And, you know, being his kid, I sort of was always like, wow, you know, and I think my mom, look, she was. She grew up in the 50s and 60s. Women didn't have credit cards, women couldn't get their own mortgage, women. And so you didn't have any reason to learn any of that stuff. She never paid a bill. She never, like, nothing. And, you know, she. To this day, I don't even know if she knows how to use the thermostat. You know, like, my dad always controlled the temperature of the house. He's not a controlling guy.
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A
I wish you didn't know how to use a thermostat.
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B
I think that she just, you know, didn't do it. And. And I think that he always felt the weight of that. His dad sacrificed everything, you know, all his money and everything for my dad to become a doctor. And I think my dad, you know, that stayed with him like that. He had this huge responsibility to everybody. And so when I met you and started. So, so anyway, so to the point where, like, if I, you know, had a fender bender when I was in high school or college, I was worried to tell my dad. You know, I was worried to be like, yeah, I, you know, I got an offender bender because I knew the stress that he was going to feel. I knew the guilt and the, you know, it was the. It was a lot. And when I met you, it was like this.
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A
Wait, before you go there.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I have a question.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Can you more appreciate and understand what he was the way he was then?
- [21:49]
B
Absolutely.
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A
Now?
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B
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And also, I have this sort of, I think, for a lot of women, and probably guys, too. I don't know a lot of women, I have the. To this day, I was always shunned about money. I was always kind of, you know, chastised about spending. And no one ever sat me down to teach me. And, And. And so therefore, you know, there's this whole, like, look, like anything else. I always say there are some things that you struggle with and you don't know how to fix it. And for many things, we offer tools, we offer support we offer. And financial is one of those things that it's Just like spend less and that's it. And that makes no sense because it is so much bigger than that. Especially when you're in charge of so much financially and you're in charge of the, your kids lives and them getting what they need and getting them the stuff that will help them socially, will help them later in life, will help them if they're neurodiverse, if they are struggling. All of the things, it all comes on you and then you're sort of told you're spending too much money. So it's this huge, it's this huge disconnect between we're responsible for all the things and then we hear the. But you, you didn't do it right with all the things. And so I know a lot of stay at home parents can relate to that, you know, or if you've been in a more quote unquote traditional situation and you know, even if you're not a parent, even if you're just in charge of the household or whatever. And you know, I, I, to me, that was always really hard that I wouldn't. It was the same thing with my dad, right? Like, look, my, my parents didn't take me back to school shopping. It just wasn't. My mom just didn't do it. I don't know why. I'll never know why she didn't buy my prom dress. Like, there's all these things, you know, that I have to sort out. And on top of it, it was sort of like then I would go and I would get the dress that I wanted to get, and then it would be like, well, you spent too much money. You know, like, there was no moderate, There was no teaching moderation. And then there was my mom, who just spent a lot of money, and my dad, who spent none. So there was so much confusion growing up. And then I met your family and I met you. And again, it was like all this confusion about spending. Right. Well, it was like our second anything like this.
- [25:03]
A
Well, ours. I don't think we talked about this in a while. Our second date, when I brought you to Atlantic City and we went down for the night and I'm at the craps table, you're playing whatever with your $40 and you come over to me and you're like, hey, I'm out. You know, I was like, here, here's hundreds, you know, here's three, four, whatever.
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B
I thought I was hallucinating when you started handing me hundreds. I mean, really, I had. You know, my mom loves Atlantic City. I always loved gambling. My Roommate and I used to come with $40 between the two of us for a night.
- [25:38]
A
Again, you were in college, I wasn't. Right. So there's that difference.
- [25:42]
B
Okay. But I had never met anybody else understood that.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah, but because you were in college and you're dating college guys or whatever. Yeah, right. But also we weren't taught this stuff in school growing up. You know, back in the 80s, the last thing that I can remember learning is like how to write a check. That's it.
- [26:01]
B
I don't think I.
- [26:02]
A
Getting into high school, it was like there was a stock market class or a finance class, which for three days there was about how to invest in the stock market and play. Like we, we picked some stocks or whatever, like. And I was. That was the most of it. I think it's better now. I think they're doing more with finances in schools these days, but not to what it needs to be. Right. They're not learning about debt and mortgages and credit cards and how, you know, dangerous they are and all those kinds of things which really should be done. There's only so much you can do as a parent to talk to your kids about this stuff. Right. They need to know about this stuff in the real world and have classes and homework and reading. Like, we can't provide that stuff. You know, we can just tell them from experience or what we know, but we can't provide the textbook knowledge of this stuff, which they need to learn.
- [26:50]
B
And I mean, and it's more than that. It's, you know, you see, there's this whole movement right now with young kids, you know, young girls especially going into Sephora and you know, they're buying luxury makeup and they're, you know, they're buying luxury clothing and luxury. Like they're. I, I feel like, how are we, first of all, what are they aspiring to? Right. Who are we talking about there?
- [27:20]
A
That they're like the Gen Zers or.
- [27:23]
B
Yeah, I think more Jonah's. Yeah.
- [27:27]
A
And they're at 14, 13.
- [27:30]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. There's this whole tick tock thing now. There's like a big, you know, there's a lot of child psychiatrist, psychologists talking about it and stuff that, you know, look, social media, it's social media. They see the Kylie Jenner's and the, you know, all those celebrities doing, you know, selling, buying. This is what they have. This is how they look. Look, you know, you see a before and after picture of Kylie Jenner and you're sort of like, shit, I want to buy that makeup and, and it's confusing for them, too. I'm not blaming them. I'm a little bit blaming the parents, even though I know how hard it is. But is it healthy to be teaching your kid that, you know, you could be spending 400 a pop at Sephora?
- [28:14]
A
No. Understood. I see it myself in my store when they're buying a lot of people of Gen Z. No, they're. They're buying, like when they have football games or they have school spirit or they have like. And they're buying these wearable things, like whatever, or even Halloween, buying the accessories, the costumes and all that kind of stuff, where now when they're working, they're making a quote unquote livable wages, right? I know they're not, but, you know, five years ago it was $8 an hour, where now it's 15, right? So these kids who are new to getting jobs are making what they consider to be a lot of money because they're 15 and they live at home and they have no expenses and they're making $15 an hour, so they're making $80 a day or a lot of money for somebody that, that age. And they just go out there and again, because things are expensive uncontrollably because of inflation and because of a married.
- [29:10]
B
Not anymore.
- [29:12]
A
That's a whole another subject.
- [29:13]
B
Okay, but not anymore.
- [29:14]
A
Okay, yes or no. But anyway, things are very, very expensive, right? And they're out there to just spend what they have without consideration, without. They don't, they don't know the total when they're checking out, they don't know how much it cost. They just buy what they want. And I mean, good for them, right? But it's an awful, awful, like real life learning experience.
- [29:36]
B
You know, we have it too with, we're, we're guilty too. I mean, I think we try to do a good job and I think in some ways we really do. But also, look, there was Ian. Last week there was the Travis Scott concert. His best friend called him at 12:00pm you know, his best friend, who lives an hour and a half away, got tickets for a fraction of the price of what it costs to go to Travis Scott. You know, Ian's cousins have gone, his friends have all gone to the concert, whatever. He's been dying to go for a really long time. And, you know, look, he has no money. You know, I mean, he worked all summer, but he didn't get paid well, but he did work, you know, he's a kid. And it was. Look, it wasn't cheap, but it was a Fraction of the price of what they cost. You know, they go for 6, 700, which is insane. But. And. And. And he was, you know, begging us. And. And there was a part of us that was like, we don't want him to miss out.
- [30:40]
A
Well, it's the same thing, like, with kids and phones, right? So many parents who say, I don't want my kids having phones. I don't want them having social media. I don't want them having. But if they don't, they're missing out. They're not in with everybody else. They're not involved. They're not part of. So how could you not. Like, how could. You know. Yeah, you almost have to do it, because if. If you don't participate in this stuff, you're left out. And, you know, you don't. You don't want that for your child. We've been through with Ian. We've talked about it a lot, so we want the best for, you know, for him to be involved and be, you know, all the things. So we do things even though in our gut we're like, we should not be spending this money on this. We shouldn't be doing it.
- [31:24]
B
Yeah. It wasn't just, you know, then he gets there, he's got to eat. He's got. You know, it's all that stuff.
- [31:29]
A
But. But it's like, how do you say no when it's not just about the money, when it's about all the other stuff, right? It's about connecting with his friends and.
- [31:40]
B
Making sure he's with them and participating.
- [31:42]
A
And making sure he's active and making sure all those things. And, you know, that's. That's the cost.
- [31:47]
B
That's hard. So very hard.
- [31:50]
A
You know, I'm assuming it's so much harder now than when we were kids. You know, there's so much more.
- [31:58]
B
Well, it's just the cost of concerts is insanity.
- [32:01]
A
Everything.
- [32:02]
B
I mean, it just. You know, it makes me to be a Taylor Swift fan. If you don't have a rich parent, your parent isn't a celebrity, or they're not willing to break the bank for you, then you don't see her.
- [32:18]
A
Didn't she try to do something about that, or.
- [32:20]
B
No, I think. I think she said that she didn't realize, like, when ticket might look, and I don't. I'm not gonna blame Taylor Swift. I. You know, I. I do think it's hard to be. You know, even Pearl Jam at one point wasn't with Ticketmaster, and they had to go back.
- [32:34]
A
I was gonna Say they're the only ones.
- [32:36]
B
Yeah, but I think now they're back with them.
- [32:38]
A
But there's no choice.
- [32:39]
B
That's what I'm saying.
- [32:40]
A
Yeah, because Ticketmaster and Live Nation, they merged and like the whole thing, there's no choice.
- [32:44]
B
Monopoly.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah. So. But at least see how I know what that is, a Monopoly. Because he played the board game.
- [32:51]
B
No, but.
- [32:52]
A
No, but, but, like, they stand out to me because they were trying to fight the man. They were trying to, like, do. Didn't work, but they tried, you know, so there's some respect for that. But there's got to be something like, can't you just.
- [33:06]
B
Well, there is. There. They're trying to pass a bill in Congress. I don't know much about it, but I know they're saying it is fifteen.
- [33:11]
A
Hundred dollars to go see Taylor Swift.
- [33:13]
B
I know, I know. And. And then it's just people making all this ton of money on reselling tickets, so.
- [33:19]
A
But she does good with the money, right? Like, she's.
- [33:21]
B
Yeah. No, no, no. Like I said, look, listen, I'm not. It's, it's a way bigger than Taylor Swift. Of course, you could say it about, you know, how many concerts. I mean, my God, it's impossible. But, but, you know, and I, again, I get it. People want their kids. You know, if your kid has been waiting for months and months and dreaming of this, and all their friends have gone, and that's hard.
- [33:45]
A
That's the problem is that because of social media is all of your friends have gone. They've all posted the pictures. They've all like, experienced that. They've. And if you're left out these days.
- [33:57]
B
If you're left out.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, you're, you know, you're ostracized. You know, like you're, you're left out. You know, like they're all posting the pics and that's what it's all about.
- [34:08]
B
Yeah.
- [34:09]
A
Getting that pick.
- [34:11]
B
Right, Right. I especially, I think it more for girls than for boys, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but. And also, you know, I think also you say to yourself, look, they're good kids. They do what they're supposed to do. They're, you know, they're, they're nice, they're sweet. They're, you know, and then you're sort of like, oh, but this is, you know, it's, it's hard. It's basically how I sum it all up.
- [34:35]
A
Well, no, I agree with you, especially with. I don't know how much we want to get into this. Right. But like, with. Because we Were talking about Ian with going away. No. He's such a good kid. Right. He has his issues. Right. He's.
- [34:47]
B
Sure.
- [34:47]
A
But like, he's such a good person. Like, I, I honestly, I, I, I just feel bad, like if I have to say no, I feel bad. I want, I don't want to say no.
- [34:58]
B
I know, but we have to. Yeah, you have to tighten the reins and listen, he hears no plenty. He's, he's got friends who, you know, are, they travel, they do this, they do that. He can't, you know, he's not doing a lot of what they're doing. He worked all summer. A lot of his friends were doing teen tours and this and that.
- [35:16]
A
I know, I know. Look, look, he's not, you know, the most silver spoon fed kid in the world, right? Yeah, but, you know, a little bit, yes. But I just, I don't want him. I, I think a lot of parents feel this way. Like you, you, you just, you don't.
- [35:34]
B
Want them to be the one missing out. Of course it, Absolutely.
- [35:37]
A
All right, moving on.
- [35:39]
B
Do we need to take a break or anything?
- [35:41]
A
Sure.
- [35:41]
B
Okay.
- [35:41]
A
All right. Be right back.
- [35:45]
B
I think we're at this pivotal time kind of in as far as gender roles and you know, it's hard because in one, on the one hand, I think were improving. On the other hand, I am concerned about going backwards. And I think that for a long time, one of the things for me was you were working, you know, out of the house, I was home. And there was for a long time this huge divide. There was you at work, me at home. And I know, you know, you paid the bills and you had responsibilities and stuff. But I also think that there was a time when I had very little power in our relationship. I think that because you worked and because you resented me staying home, I really felt like I was like a second class citizen in my own home. I wasn't able to make any decisions really about our finances. There were big decisions that you had made that I felt like if I argued with you about it, it wasn't my place because you were the one making the money. I'm not blaming you for all of this. I should have put my foot down much earlier and we should have communicated about it all much earlier. But also, we have both evolved so much as humans. We were such different people. And I think that part of me was like I was in charge of, I guess, and it's a trigger because similarly to when I was in, when I was growing up and you know, like I said, My mom didn't take me to buy things. I was in charge of buying them. I mean, I even kind of went food shopping for myself. It's a whole thing that I need to, like, keep dissecting in therapy. I think that I felt like I was responsible for everything in the home, everything for the kids. You know, you didn't know what size they were. You didn't know what size diapers they wore. You didn't know, you know, what, you know, what they needed.
- [38:11]
A
Like.
- [38:11]
B
Like all those things. All those things. You had no idea. And I think that, you know, I was resentful, too, of that, that I was taking on the brunt of it. And I guess that there was definitely part of me that was like, fuck you. Like, I'm gonna buy the nicer clothes for them and I'm gonna buy the. You know, and then I think there was also this power play where you would tell me I was spending too much. Like, I'll never forget. This is a very famous story. I think I have to write a blog about this. Actually, there's this very famous, famous for us, I mean, between the two of us story where you had literally given me a lecture about spending and money and the credit card, and the next day you came home with a brand new fucking television. Huge, beautiful television. When we already had a very fine television in our. In our. This is when TVs were still expensive. This is not when they were like, you know, $200. Like, you spent a good over $1,000 on it. And. And, you know, I just remember being thinking to myself, like, God, I really don't have any say in what we spend in this household, you know? And so I think a little bit for a long time, that was my mo. Like, that was my. That was my power play. I was sort of like, fuck it, I'm going to spend too. You know, And. And I think that there was, you know, there were a lot of inconsistencies. There was no communication. And all the while, of course, what I don't realize when I'm doing that is I am hurting our family. And, you know, and by kind of getting revenge in some ways, you know, I was hurting us, too, definitely.
- [40:05]
A
So my response is, yes, we were a complete shit show at that time, both of us. I made tons of awful mistakes. You made some mistakes as well. Our. Our worries were at that point when the kids were little, right? So there were no expenses except for diapers and formula and, like, all that stuff, right? And Gymboree and minimal, like, whatever you Were home. You didn't need a nanny or a somebody to stay at the house or anything like that. Child care or anything like that, according to you. Right. But at that point in our lives, you know, there was excess money. Right. So what, we were in our 30s at this point. Right. So we were kind of. Yeah, barely. So for the first time, kind of on our own as adults, as parents, and like, for the first. This message comes from Greenlight.
- [41:08]
B
Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy?
- [41:12]
A
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- [41:19]
B
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- [41:22]
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- [41:29]
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- [41:31]
B
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- [41:34]
A
Healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk free@greenlight.com listen. Greenlight.com listen time. We can do what we want. And I did. We didn't know about, you know, saving for kids or how to, you know, what do you spend on diapers versus what do you spend on food or what do you. We didn't even go through that process. And we were like, we like a nice landscaping in the backyard.
- [42:09]
B
Let's build a rock wall.
- [42:10]
A
Yeah, let's spend $20,000 on a rock wall or whatever the it costs.
- [42:14]
B
Right. It's almost hard to say out loud.
- [42:16]
A
I know. All the things that we just spent stupid money on.
- [42:19]
B
Oh, my God.
- [42:19]
A
And the parties that we had. And, you know, I. The way that I look at it was like I was involved in the big stuff, right? The houses, the cars, the. All the big ticket items where you are more focused on, you know, we need all the small things. Like we need the best of the clothes for the kids.
- [42:41]
B
No, I didn't do that.
- [42:42]
A
Whatever. What was it?
- [42:44]
B
No, my kid and the kids never really even. And when I say, well, they did.
- [42:47]
A
A little bit, but. But.
- [42:49]
B
But they really.
- [42:49]
A
I take responsibility for that too. Right. So. So, like, I got Mia the Burberry dress for her.
- [42:55]
B
Yeah, whatever. You know what I say clothes, but it's not even really true. Yeah, they had Uggs, but I was never. They. I bought them Gap in Old Navy.
- [43:03]
A
Okay, so it. I'm trying to say is it was the small ticket items that you were spending on that just add up.
- [43:12]
B
Oh, sure.
- [43:12]
A
To me, the big ticket items. The few.
- [43:15]
B
Yeah.
- [43:16]
A
You know, but. But big numbers, right.
- [43:18]
B
Mine was more close for me. I didn't give a. What they were.
- [43:22]
A
Right. But so, you know, we were young. We had young kids with minimal expenses. We had money and we spent it.
- [43:30]
B
And we, you know, we didn't anticipate for the future.
- [43:34]
A
Exactly.
- [43:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [43:36]
A
Look, in all fairness, I tried to. At the same time, I was being frivolous.
- [43:41]
B
Yeah, not really.
- [43:43]
A
No, that's not true. Because I was so involved in 529 market. Yeah, that's fine that you didn't want.
- [43:52]
B
To have a 529.
- [43:53]
A
I never said I didn't want it.
- [43:55]
B
No, yes, you did not. You said, why would I do it now when I. When later on it's just gonna be like, we'll just put that money towards it. We might as well have that money to spend now.
- [44:07]
A
All right, that makes sense.
- [44:07]
B
Yeah.
- [44:08]
A
Yeah.
- [44:08]
B
No, it doesn't make sense.
- [44:09]
A
No, no.
- [44:10]
B
But I couldn't argue with you.
- [44:11]
A
It makes sense that I said that.
- [44:13]
B
Right?
- [44:13]
A
Yeah.
- [44:13]
B
And I couldn't argue with you. We're being very honest here, people. Better, like, simmer down and just say thank you.
- [44:21]
A
I, like, if. I swear, if. If we had this conversation or if I could have this podcast when I was 22 and listen to this episode and tell myself all the things.
- [44:34]
B
Send it to all your.
- [44:35]
A
Almost especially. Because, number one, I. I said I tried to save a little bit, right? And. And I did. We. We opened the accounts. I had the. I had the Roth IRAs. I had the. The 529s. I had all the things. But we were spending too much, not putting enough in these things and not realizing what happened to the expense of these things, like college over the last 20 years. Right? Because, look, I mean, the. The price of college is doubled and tripled over the last 20 years.
- [45:13]
B
Disgusting.
- [45:13]
A
It's like, who. You can't plan for that.
- [45:16]
B
It's disgusting, you know? Well, it helps. It helps to plan for it. I'm not gonna lie.
- [45:23]
A
It does. But if you're planning for something that's Gonna cost you $30,000 and it's all right anyway.
- [45:29]
B
Nope, nope, nope. Everyone, don't do your own fucking research. Do not get it here.
- [45:35]
A
I'm not offering advice, but, you know.
- [45:37]
B
Here'S one thing that I do want to. Want to ask people, and that does concern me as a parent. And then I struggle with how much, you know, how much do you say to your kids, we can't afford it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, when there's. When they're. Look, as most people who are listening to this, I know who our parents, I know feel the same as we do, we do everything for our kids. And I know, you know, so many people out there are thinking to themselves, yes, us too. That is. I know it. And I know that they're right, that they do probably do everything for their kids, right? And at a certain point, you know, you think to yourself, we can't do it. We cannot financially do it. And. And it, you know, and how much do you say to your kid, listen, I'm sorry, we can't afford it.
- [46:35]
A
It's also hard because it could be something so simple and not expensive as, like, they want to go out to lunch, which will cost $15, right? Where it used to cost four. Right? So. But when it's four times a week and they need money because they're in school and they're not work. And when I say in school, I'm talking about middle school and high school, not when you're in college.
- [47:00]
B
Well, and when you get free lunch at school, as our kids do, right. Then they decide that they don't want the free lunch, but they want pizza.
- [47:08]
A
How do you say to your kid, It's, I need 15 for lunch. We can't afford 15.
- [47:14]
B
Well, it's. But it's not 15.
- [47:16]
A
That's my point. That's what I'm saying. Because multiply it out over the month, and you're talking about 400amonth to let them go for lunch for pizza. You know what I mean?
- [47:24]
B
And I know we're going to get a thousand messages from people saying, give them chores, have them earn an allowance.
- [47:30]
A
Doesn't matter.
- [47:30]
B
Still. And not only that, thank you. Thank you for that advice. It's. We know. We've tried. Well, we've had. We've rated all that, me and you. Yeah, listen, we're. Look, people are. We're not great at that kind of stuff.
- [47:46]
A
You're not saving money. It's not easy by having your kids do chores. You're just. They're just helping you do chores. There's no more money because they're helping you do it. So it's not like you pay somebody to come over and empty your dishwasher if they're doing it. It's just helping.
- [48:03]
B
Yeah, that's not even that helpful. Right, but hence Ian's pink clothes that came out of the dryer yesterday.
- [48:11]
A
Oh, really?
- [48:12]
B
Or two days ago.
- [48:12]
A
Well, he likes pink. It's okay.
- [48:14]
B
Yeah, but they weren't supposed to be pink. Yeah, that is always for me. Like, sometimes I just want to be like, look, dude, you know, you wanted to play baseball. You wanted to, you know, you needed a new bike. You, you know, you need books. You need. You wanted new sweatpants. You. I can't. I can't. I can't do it anymore. Like, we did all those things, and now we can't do this. Well, but I also don't want them to be stressed and feeling like, oh, my God, are we going. You know, because I often felt that growing up, I often felt like, holy shit, am I going to be responsible? Like, oh, my God, I'm responsible for our financial situation. Like, my, you know, I think my dad put so much weight on us spending frivolously that, you know, sometimes. And I love. My. My dad is so wonderful and everything. And then I know that a lot of it, you know, it was all. Look, he did a lot of it. He did look towards the future, you know, and. And that was. That was good by him.
- [49:19]
A
Yeah. But, you know, another example of that is, you know, we. Our kids are in private school, like, so we're paying for school. And he plays baseball. He's not going to the mlb. He's not going to be a professional baseball player. He's. I love that he's doing it. I want him to do it. I love that he loves it. But we pay for the school. And then it's like, oh, even though he's jv, and last year he was a freshman, we're going to Florida for spring training.
- [49:50]
B
That's every year.
- [49:52]
A
So it's like, okay, so now here's, you know, you owe us this to go to.
- [49:56]
B
Yeah, but every school has that.
- [49:57]
A
But that's my point.
- [49:58]
B
Yeah. Every school, you know, it's a senior trip to Disney or. It's. It's not just. It's every school.
- [50:04]
A
If I knew he was doing it to get into college or to be a professional player, like, okay, that's an investment. This is more just like.
- [50:12]
B
No, it's still an investment.
- [50:14]
A
In what?
- [50:15]
B
In being part of a team. And. But he's learning.
- [50:18]
A
You don't have to go to Florida to be part of a team.
- [50:20]
B
Okay, you're taking a little too far. Listen, I agree it's a big expense, but it. That's everything. And, you know, I know people. Someone just told me their daughter is playing soccer for her. She's on a travel team. For her to play for the season is $6,000. It's everybody. It's everywhere.
- [50:41]
A
All these dance parents who are complaining. Cost and the cost and the expense. Yeah.
- [50:46]
B
Yes.
- [50:47]
A
It's just all like, there's nothing affordable Anymore.
- [50:51]
B
Yeah, I know. And you know, I don't know, I just, you know, I feel like now, look, there's always, there hasn't been a time in the past, I don't know, 20 years where I don't have a, a pit in my stomach about something, right? Whether, you know, I also have anxiety and ocd, so that also is part of it. But, you know, whether it be you're in my relationship, whether it be something going on family wise or something with the kids, you know, there. Look, there's always something. I did a video the other day that has like almost gone viral about how, you know, when, when at some point today when you're feeling like you're losing your shit and something that should be simple feels really hard and you, you know, can't figure out why you're exhausted and drained. Just remember we're supposed to be healing from the fuckery of our past while in this moment also anticipating the fuckery of the future and the futures of all those who were responsible for. And it's true, like in every situation, we are not just dealing with that situation, we're dealing with so much more. And you know, there's part of me that right now, like, we really are. If people listened to and if you haven't, go back and listen the episodes from not even a year ago, the. What the fuck are they called? When is it the last straw and you know, the, the something, the ones that followed it. I don't even know the names. We were, we almost separated. We were almost divorced. Like, we were, we were there and we've done a lot of work and I mean, we went through a period where it was like intense, intense like involvement and it was the opposite of what that was. And now I think we're at a really good balance, you know, I mean.
- [52:49]
A
The early episodes of anything having to do with finance, where we're like, we throw our headphones off and like turn.
- [52:56]
B
Off the mics and like the mental load.
- [52:58]
A
We fought. We did it for many episodes and we would fight for an hour before we calm down and come back on. So, yes, this is, you know, it took 22 years. Are we married? Yeah.
- [53:16]
B
Subtract the, the four, carry the one. The exponent of the 24 years we've been.
- [53:21]
A
24.
- [53:22]
B
Wait, no, no, 22. Yeah, 22.
- [53:26]
A
I know.
- [53:26]
B
Lucky 22.
- [53:28]
A
So after 22 years of marriage, just so everybody knows, that's how long it takes to get on page with each other about anything as important as I.
- [53:38]
B
Do think we're at the best point in our relationship we've ever been. And people know that. I don't say that lightly because I am the first one to say, fuck you, I don't like you.
- [53:47]
A
And, and I'm the first one to say to my friends, I don't like her.
- [53:54]
B
No. But I don't know. I. Do you agree with that?
- [53:56]
A
I. 100%. Yeah. I hope so.
- [53:59]
B
So I guess there's part of me that's like, oh, my God, we're good. But now we have these fucking finances to worry about, don't we?
- [54:08]
A
Like that. We all do.
- [54:09]
B
And I know people out there are probably like, you have a home. You have. You. We get it. We know what your kids are in school. Listen. People who have listened to the podcast know what we have gone through with our kids. And, you know, we are only trying to do right by them.
- [54:27]
A
List. This is all relative.
- [54:29]
B
Yeah.
- [54:29]
A
And we're, we're fighting the bat. And this is like I, I, I said to you not too long ago, like, this is a self. What's the word? Self. We did this to ourselves. Right. So we didn't expect.
- [54:44]
B
You see, I disagree with that.
- [54:45]
A
I know you do. We didn't expect, you know, to be paying for three schools at this point in our lives. Right. Had. Could. We had been saving more towards college to pay for schools because we didn't do this. Yeah. You know, that's another.
- [55:01]
B
I. Yes, I understand what you are saying. I also believe that is way more complicated than that. I'm not gonna get it. I'm not gonna get into it. I think anybody, you know, who has trauma in their life or who, you know, has certain family issues or whatever will understand what I'm saying when I say that there were 10 things, 20 things, 30 things that happened that led you to this point and some of the decisions that you made. A general. You. Oh, you know, people who can relate that. That, you know. Yes. Something seems to be our fault. And like, we up and we, we definitely did. No, no, but don't, don't. No, no.
- [55:48]
A
Okay.
- [55:48]
B
No, don't interrupt me. You can speak after.
- [55:51]
A
I was just gonna say I don't think we up for the reasons that the kids are in these schools.
- [55:57]
B
No, no, I'm not.
- [55:58]
A
That's.
- [56:00]
B
You're saying we didn't anticipate in this and that and whatever. People who have gone through issues bigger than themselves know that a lot of what we do is much bigger than the choice we made. Right. It is our upbringing, it is choices that the people before us Made and taught us to make. It is the healing that we're doing. And maybe we're not quite healed. And I'm not trying to deflect the part that's our responsibility. I am just trying to say it is way bigger than that. And oftentimes a lot of the mistakes that we make, if you really want to think about it and break it down, have far more. Pre. What's the word? Like, pre.
- [57:06]
A
Don't ask me for words.
- [57:07]
B
Pre. Come on. Like, pre. Then, you know, it's not just us.
- [57:16]
A
I'm sure I could go to a therapist and divulge all my.
- [57:23]
B
Let's not go there.
- [57:24]
A
No, no, no. Hear me out. And they, she or he, whoever, whomever, would tell me why it's not my.
- [57:32]
B
Fault that already happened.
- [57:35]
A
But I made those decisions, right? Like, I made a lot of bad decisions.
- [57:40]
B
It is very, very hard for people to. To not take. It's interesting, for some people, it is very easy to take the blame off of yourself and put it on others. Right. For people who, you know, have no real integrity and no real moral grounding and everything, it is very. They do it to. They do it to everybody. Right. It's nothing is their fault. We've all thought of people who do this. We see people in the public eye. We know people in our lives who do this. However, it is far more difficult to be a person who places that blame on people who are close to you when you have been conditioned a certain way to not blame them. And I think that that is a huge part of a lot of what happens in people's lives is, you know, you take the blame, other people put the blame on you and everything. And again, I'm not deflecting and saying we didn't do things that we didn't do. Stupid shit. We did plenty stupid shit. I'm also saying there were 10, 20, 30 steps leading up to that.
- [58:59]
A
Understood.
- [59:00]
B
And a lot of that is a product of what we saw, what we modeled, what we copied, what we tried to aspire to.
- [59:12]
A
Well, mine was a copy. Yours. It was more of like a rebellion.
- [59:18]
B
Well, a lot of things. But I will say this. You know, when I first met your family and saw you guys and how you. It was very confusing for me. And a little bit I felt like I had just met, like. Like when I met your family, it was sort of like Annie getting adopted by Daddy Warbuck. Right. Honestly.
- [59:37]
A
No, I understand.
- [59:38]
B
And it was very confusing. Like, vice versa. There were. Was part of me that was like, this feels uncomfortable. And there was part of me that's like, this is fun, you know?
- [59:49]
A
Well, yes, because I think that's what you are more accustomed to for yourself. Right. Because you were spending, unlike your family.
- [60:00]
B
But I also worked my ass off.
- [60:02]
A
You did, 100%. And that's why I avoided Banana Republic, because I knew you were working.
- [60:07]
B
Correct.
- [60:08]
A
Yes, but then you saw my family, who was working and spending money the way that you saw. Like, your eyes were glowing, like, I want to do that too, you know, Kind of.
- [60:22]
B
Yes. Kind of. Again, very. There's multi level.
- [60:25]
A
There's levels and there's.
- [60:26]
B
There's levels. But yes. When you. When you gave me that money in Atlantic City and again when I started dating you again, all I knew about you was that you lived with your parents.
- [60:35]
A
There wasn't much to know about me.
- [60:37]
B
Right. It's true. No, I knew that you were. I would. You were 22, living with your parents, and you. No, didn't.
- [60:46]
A
That's.
- [60:47]
B
When I weren't in college.
- [60:48]
A
22 is when I was moving out into my condo.
- [60:53]
B
That was with me.
- [60:54]
A
No, that was because you forced me to move.
- [60:56]
B
No. You didn't even buy the condo until we were together.
- [60:59]
A
Oh, yes, I did. Oh, no, no. We were together when I bought it.
- [61:04]
B
Yeah.
- [61:05]
A
Yeah. And you were in the city, correct? Yeah, yeah, correct. Right. But we were. We were a boyfriend and girlfriend.
- [61:12]
B
Yeah, but what I'm saying is I. I obviously didn't start dating you for the money, because all I knew about you when we started dating was, number one, you lived at home with your parents, which. This. What, you weren't a millennial.
- [61:23]
A
I was a catch.
- [61:25]
B
And you weren't in school.
- [61:28]
A
Nope.
- [61:28]
B
And you worked, like, part time at your family business.
- [61:32]
A
Not part time.
- [61:33]
B
Oh, full time. But you were. Whatever. But, like, I didn't know anything about your financial situation, so I certainly didn't start. It was, like, a perk. Right. Until it wasn't.
- [61:46]
A
Yeah.
- [61:47]
B
So. All right. Did you have, like, any questions? Did you do.
- [61:50]
A
I did.
- [61:50]
B
Yeah.
- [61:51]
A
I have a ton of stuff, but I have to pee, so we'll come back.
- [61:54]
B
Okay. We don't match that much.
- [61:55]
A
No ads. Don't worry. We'll be right back. So I. I found some stats and stuff that I thought were interesting that I thought maybe. Do you want to hear some facts first? Do you want questions first or.
- [62:08]
B
I don't want to make any decisions.
- [62:10]
A
Okay. I'll take care.
- [62:10]
B
Yeah. Thank you.
- [62:11]
A
Yeah, I got it. So. All right. Just some. Just some quick facts. And I used chat. GPT. I used Google I used all, like, the relevant information that's out there. Everything must be right. Everything's real. Yeah. No, the stuff that I was searching, I'm sure the stats are somewhat realistic. Maybe some are a little skewed in certain ways or whatever, but just take it with a grain of salt, I guess. Right. So I was trying to search people our age, you know, for. For the most part here. So savings by the age of being in your mid-40s, what savings do you think across America do people have in their 40s?
- [63:02]
B
So hard. Yeah, that's so hard. I mean, there's such a spectrum.
- [63:07]
A
Okay, so the answer is $130,000 in savings. That makes me feel a little. All savings. And the median Is that including retirement? Well, that's what I'm saying. The median 401k balance in your mid-40s is $62,000. It's not, you know, in your 40s.
- [63:28]
B
Terrible.
- [63:28]
A
I mean, you know.
- [63:31]
B
No, I know. And. Oh, how sad.
- [63:35]
A
Yeah.
- [63:35]
B
This is where. How we live.
- [63:36]
A
About 93 of college students say they need some kind of assistance. Assistance to pay. Oh, obviously. Especially now. So about homeownership. About 65% of Americans own their own home. When I say own. With an average mortgage of about $240,000. Where the average home price in the US is $416,000. Granted, where you live is very different. Where we live, New Jersey, New York, you know, obviously very different. The average credit card debt of The American is $6,500, but about more than. I'm sorry. And more than 2 million consumers over $50,000.
- [64:28]
B
Say that again.
- [64:29]
A
Yeah. So the average credit card debt in America is about $6,500, but about 2 million people in the US have. This is consumers, not businesses. Over $50,000 in credit card debt. The average American. I'm sorry. The average amount of savings American parents have for college by the time their child is 18. $28,000.
- [65:00]
B
Makes me sick.
- [65:00]
A
It does nothing that pays for food.
- [65:02]
B
I know.
- [65:03]
A
For college.
- [65:03]
B
I know.
- [65:07]
A
Okay. As of 2024, studies show that about 60 to 65% of men in the US feel confident in their understanding of personal finances, compared to 50 to 55% of women.
- [65:20]
B
I even think that sounds.
- [65:21]
A
That's close. Er, than I thought it would be like. I feel like guys would be like, yeah, you know, I got it. I understand. Right. I understand crypto, but who the does these polls, you know? Right, right. So who in the knows? So as far as questions for you. Yeah, here we go.
- [65:44]
B
This is like you with menopause all.
- [65:47]
A
Right, we'll start off.
- [65:48]
B
This is my men. This is my kryptonite.
- [65:50]
A
We'll start off easy.
- [65:52]
B
Oh, for fuck's sake. Don't say that. That's even worse.
- [65:55]
A
How would you. What is a budget? That's it. Simple. What's a budget?
- [66:02]
B
A budget is the biggest turnoff one could ever have. A budget is when you create a system of saving money. So if you make $1,000 a week, a budget is saying, okay, we're gonna spend 200 on food, 100 on groceries. That's the same thing. 100 on. You know.
- [66:28]
A
Yes, you're right.
- [66:29]
B
Yeah.
- [66:29]
A
So, yeah, a financial plan to look at your income versus your expenses and do the math and the calculations and all that fun stuff. Right? Have you heard of the 50, 30, 20 rule? Do you know what that is?
- [66:46]
B
My bust, but not my waist and my thighs.
- [66:51]
A
So that is a budget plan where 50% of your money goes towards needs, 30 goes towards wants.
- [66:57]
B
I mean, needs is so relative.
- [66:59]
A
20 goes towards savings.
- [67:01]
B
Needs is. You know, at 3:00 in the morning when I'm fall asleep, I needs a Starbucks.
- [67:09]
A
Right. Like after recording, I need doordash.
- [67:12]
B
No.
- [67:12]
A
Yeah.
- [67:13]
B
So you know. Yes.
- [67:15]
A
Do you know? We. We. This is why. One of the questions. I was saying, we've done this stuff before. Do you know what a Roth IRA is?
- [67:26]
B
He's a very nice Jewish man. No, I'm sorry. It's enough jokes. A Roth IRA is. Is something where you.
- [67:36]
A
What's that something?
- [67:38]
B
It's a. It's like an account.
- [67:39]
A
Which kind of account?
- [67:41]
B
It's a Roth IRA account. Wait, It's a, like. It's an account for work. That you get from work? No, from the government. From the Candyman.
- [67:51]
A
What kind of account, Santa? It's a Roth ira.
- [67:55]
B
You're saving for what you're saving for. You're saving for the future, which is your. Your retirement.
- [68:03]
A
Yes, it's a retirement account.
- [68:05]
B
What's the IRA stand for? The R is retirement. What's the I? And the A.
- [68:11]
A
Okay, so. So the.
- [68:16]
B
See, I'm sorry. The education system has failed me. I don't take any blame for this.
- [68:23]
A
I'm deflecting the benefits of a Roth ira. The Individual Retirement Account is that your growth is tax free. Right. So you put money in after you pay your taxes.
- [68:40]
B
We should do that.
- [68:41]
A
We did and then we spent it. So you put your money in after taxes and then it grows tax free. So it's the best way. But there are restrictions, right? There's. There's Income limits. You can't make more than a certain amount to be able to contribute to it. Oh, there's a lot of things. Right. Okay, what is the average cost of private college in the US including room and board in 2024?
- [69:11]
B
Well, that depends. You going to a state school? In state. Out of state.
- [69:14]
A
Okay.
- [69:15]
B
Does it say private? Oh, private.
- [69:17]
A
Private college.
- [69:18]
B
Out of state. Private. I'm gonna say 55, 000.
- [69:21]
A
58, 000. Very good.
- [69:22]
B
Thank you. That's one thing I do know. I've got a lot of research on this.
- [69:25]
A
That's the average. That's not the norm.
- [69:28]
B
No, the norm is higher than that. Yes. So sad.
- [69:33]
A
$1 in 1977, which is the year we were both born, is worth what today? So what could a dollar buy you then compared to what it's worth today? So let's say in 1977. Who knows?
- [69:50]
B
That was the year I was born.
- [69:52]
A
A slice of pizza cost a dollar. It didn't, but let's say it did.
- [69:55]
B
No, because a slice of pizza cost a do when I When? In like the late 80s, early 90s, that I know for sure. A $5 pizzeria in Lawrenceville, New Jersey.
- [70:05]
A
Scotto's Pizzeria in Ta.
- [70:07]
B
There you go.
- [70:08]
A
Yeah, cost a dollar. But let's say something cost a dollar in 1977. What would it cost you today to buy that? Same thing. Because of what?
- [70:18]
B
Inflation?
- [70:20]
A
Very good.
- [70:21]
B
A dollar in 1977, I'm going to say, say, $10.
- [70:27]
A
$5.20.
- [70:28]
B
Oh, see?
- [70:29]
A
But we're doing okay. Credit card debt just passed this milestone amount for the first time in 2024. How much credit card debt is the US in?
- [70:44]
B
Wait, the country or the people?
- [70:46]
A
The consumers of the US have credit card debt? What is for the first time in 2024? The total U.S. debt. Not U.S. consumer. U.S. debt for credit cards. How much?
- [71:03]
B
I'm gonna go with no solution.
- [71:05]
A
$1 trillion.
- [71:07]
B
Yeah, that sounds right.
- [71:08]
A
In credit card debt in the US in 2024.
- [71:11]
B
I'm sorry to say we've contributed.
- [71:13]
A
Okay, this is interesting, and I kind of want to get into this a little bit now.
- [71:17]
B
We got to do a second episode.
- [71:18]
A
Fine. All right, so we'll do it quick.
- [71:20]
B
Next one I'm gonna run. I'm in charge of the next finance episode.
- [71:24]
A
Fine. Totally. I. I agree.
- [71:27]
B
Why is it frugal if you go to Target and spend $65 and get back a five dollar coupon, do you.
- [71:36]
A
Have to open a credit card?
- [71:37]
B
That's. That's gonna be what mine is gonna be about right.
- [71:40]
A
How much wealth does the top 1% in the US own? Oh, of the overall.
- [71:47]
B
Oh, 99. No, it's 98.
- [71:50]
A
33.
- [71:52]
B
Exactly.
- [71:52]
A
So all the.
- [71:53]
B
Feels like 99.
- [71:55]
A
All the money in the you. All the money in this country. The top 1% own 33 of that money. There's interesting things here because it's not what I expected.
- [72:06]
B
Why aren't people using more of their money?
- [72:08]
A
How much wealth does the bottom 50% own of the money in this country?
- [72:14]
B
I think I want to know.
- [72:15]
A
2%.
- [72:16]
B
I know.
- [72:18]
A
All right, here's where it's a little interesting because I'm surprised. I thought it was going to be different to be in the top 1% of earners a household in the US needs to make how much per year to be considered in the 1% above $250,000. Oh, all right.
- [72:40]
B
Am I right?
- [72:41]
A
No, but I would have thought so much more. It's 600, 000.
- [72:47]
B
Yes.
- [72:48]
A
I would have thought it was like a billion to be in the top one.
- [72:52]
B
Because. Because the way most people you see, spend it seems like they're making a lot more than they are. No, but it's, it's, it's a. Optical illusion.
- [73:03]
A
No, but that doesn't matter because this fact is about how much you actually have, not about the perception of how much you have. So I thought it was going to be so much. I mean, obviously, when you live in New York.
- [73:16]
B
Well, how do they find that out? They ask people.
- [73:20]
A
No, this stuff is public, you know. You know, people who make millions of dollars, you know, But I just thought $600,000. Look, that's a lot of money. I would love to make $600,000, but I wouldn't consider that one the top 1%. You know what I mean? On average, individuals in this group have a net worth of how much would you think the top 1% of. Not globally, not all, like the other countries. Not like in the US the top 1. How much do you need to have a net worth of to be considered the top 1%?
- [73:56]
B
What's the net worth?
- [73:58]
A
Everything that you own? Less how much you owe? So let's say you have a million dollars and you're. And you're. And you have no debt except for your house. And your house, you owe $400,000, then your net worth is $600,000. Right. So everything that you owe, minus everything you owe, everything you own, minus everything you owe.
- [74:24]
B
Yeah.
- [74:25]
A
That's your net worth.
- [74:26]
B
Yeah.
- [74:27]
A
How much would you think top 1% in the country. How much is that?
- [74:33]
B
I must say, no solution.
- [74:34]
A
It's $11 million. That's a lot of money. Don't get me wrong. We don't have $11 million. I wish we did.
- [74:40]
B
Can you stop saying that, please?
- [74:42]
A
But it just doesn't seem to me like that's a number. That's like, yeah, I feel like so many people must have $11 million. You know what I mean? Like, people who work at fucking Apple and Google and Amazon and like, all the top.
- [74:58]
B
Yeah, but think about the expenses. Those are the same people who are driving the cars to keep up with the Joneses. Those are the same people making that kind of money who are sending their kids to the top colleges. Those are the same people who are, you know, going on the private yacht vacations and traveling the world and buying the, you know, the air maze bags and the, you know, they're the ones who are actually doing it.
- [75:22]
A
Makes no sense.
- [75:23]
B
Like, they just put an air maze in the town next to where we live. And I am like, I want to know who the fuck is shopping here?
- [75:30]
A
I want to know.
- [75:31]
B
Like, no offense, if you shop at Air Power to. You, sure, I. I get it. But also, I'm like, do you get it? I don't want to do it. There was a time when I probably would have enjoyed it. I have no interest now. I could give a shit. And I'm not putting anybody else down for doing it. You do. You go. You go at it. You buy that Birkin. But, like, I also. A Birkin Hermes bag is like, a very hard bag to get. And it's like, you know, a lot of money, but they're very pretty. So are they. They really are. Yeah.
- [76:07]
A
It's not like a stupid.
- [76:08]
B
No, no. I mean, look, they're brown bag gold letters. I'm not a bag person. I don't. I'm not an accessory person. You know, I buy, you know, my, My. The. Probably what I'd spend the most on is jeans, and I wear them to the bone. But. But I think that, you know, there are some times when I'm sort of like, really? Like, are you. Are you putting your kid in baseball, too? And you're. And you're shopping at our air maze. Like, how. And again, I'm not putting anybody down. I'm just always like, who, How? What how? You know, and it's probably because they made smarter decisions than us. And that's it. That's it.
- [76:44]
A
Put into a good place and made money, and it just happened.
- [76:48]
B
Yeah. I don't know. No, no. People work hard and make money and they, and they do good things with it. Listen, I, I, I'm sure it happens plenty, and I'm good for them. That's great. You, you keep going. You keep trucking, like, great. I'm proud of you. Yeah. But, you know, I think that there are also people who are financially savvy. And I mean, I have, I know people who just, just know what to do with their money. They're just really good at it.
- [77:20]
A
We should marry them.
- [77:21]
B
I should, I, I should marry them. I still can.
- [77:23]
A
I said we.
- [77:25]
B
Yeah. No, I wouldn't divorce you. Maybe we could just use their finances or something and then we can get them in on our drug deals.
- [77:34]
A
Exactly. All right. That's everything. That's what I got.
- [77:38]
B
All right.
- [77:38]
A
I mean, I got a.
- [77:39]
B
No, I want to do a second episode for this for sure. Because even when I was doing the polls on Instagram, I stopped at like 10, like 10 poll, you know, questions.
- [77:48]
A
Talk about it.
- [77:49]
B
No, I guess I'll do it next week.
- [77:50]
A
Okay. Because I did a whole. Look at this.
- [77:52]
B
Oh, no, I have so much more.
- [77:56]
A
I did a whole thing on the different generations.
- [77:58]
B
Oh, I have so much more. And I think that other people want more also, especially with how honest we're being. But I also, I, when I was doing the polls, I was like, I, I could ask 50 more questions. So. Yes, and I have a bunch more.
- [78:14]
A
Too, so we'll split it up.
- [78:16]
B
And listen, I think we wrote our date night questions, and again, I know I talk about this all the time. We wrote our date night questions when we were in another really hard time of our relationship. And I think that so many of the chapters in there, not just the Keeping up with the Joneses chapter and not just the Mental Load chapter. I think there are so many opportunities to have great financial talks in that and I hope that, you know, people who haven't bought it will purchase it. And it, you know, it, it does lead to some amazing conversations. And if you are buying now gifts for the holidays or you're buying for a wedding, a bridal shower, you know, a baby moon, whatever, it's a, it makes a great little gift.
- [79:00]
A
Give them a discount.
- [79:01]
B
Oh, there is a discount. There's Eminem podcast, which is the largest discount for 20% off. And there's free shipping on the print version.
- [79:08]
A
Always, always.
- [79:10]
B
Now we changed it.
- [79:11]
A
Yeah.
- [79:12]
B
We are changing lives one date night book at a time.
- [79:15]
A
Buy a book shipping.
- [79:17]
B
Buy a book. Get it shipping.
- [79:19]
A
Yes, we'll hand deliver to your door.
- [79:22]
B
No, we won't.
- [79:23]
A
Oh, but we'll ship it for free.
- [79:27]
B
Maybe if you email us, we'll sign it for you. How about that?
- [79:30]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [79:31]
B
Yeah. Email us. Say you want a signature. Or DM me on Instagram. Instagram. Say I'd like it signed and we'll do it.
- [79:38]
A
Yeah.
- [79:39]
B
Okay.
- [79:40]
A
All right.
- [79:41]
B
All right.
- [79:42]
A
That was very nice.
- [79:44]
B
It was nice.
- [79:44]
A
Very nice.
- [79:45]
B
It was very much better than it.
- [79:47]
A
Would have been in the past.
- [79:48]
B
Oh, everything is better than it would have been in the past. I don't know. We have to figure out exactly what the formula is, but it's working right now. I hope it lasts.
- [79:58]
A
Yeah.
- [79:59]
B
What?
- [79:59]
A
What?
- [79:59]
B
I hope.
- [80:00]
A
Why wouldn't it?
- [80:01]
B
This. This.
- [80:02]
A
Us?
- [80:03]
B
No, no, not us. This. The. Where we're at.
- [80:05]
A
Yeah, that's us.
- [80:06]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [80:08]
A
No, Yeah.
- [80:09]
B
I like this volume of us.
- [80:12]
A
All right.
- [80:12]
B
This.
- [80:13]
A
Yeah, let's keep it here.
- [80:14]
B
Okay. All right. End it.
- [80:16]
A
All right. Goodbye, guys.
- [80:17]
B
I love you.