Podcast Summary: "Más de uno" — Que sabemos de la nieve

Podcast: Más de uno (Onda Cero)
Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Carlos Alsina
Guests:

• Jorge Olcina — Catedrático de Geografía y director del Laboratorio de Climatología, Universidad de Alicante
• José Rodríguez — Arqueólogo, Universidad del País Vasco
• Jesús Ortiz — Jefe de Inhibición y Producción de Nieve, Formigal Panticosa

Overview

This episode revolves around the cultural, historical, scientific, and current realities of snow in Spain. Through lively discussion, humor, and expert insights, Carlos Alsina and his guests explore topics such as the historical use of snow wells (neveros), climate change, the evolution of snow events, artificial snow production, and the weather extremes facing Spain today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Snow? (00:18 — 01:22)

• Snow as a Type of Rain: Jorge Olcina explains snow is fundamentally "lluvia en estado sólido" (solid-state rain), which forms when water in clouds freezes into ice crystals, joining together to become snowflakes.
  • "Es lo que se llama una lluvia en estado sólido. ... Por tanto, sí, es una forma de lluvia." — Jorge Olcina (01:22)

2. Ice Ages and Historical Snow (“La Pequeña Edad del Hielo”) (01:42 — 05:52)

• Historical Context: Spain, like much of the northern hemisphere, experienced major glaciations, with the most recent, "La Pequeña Edad del Hielo," lasting from the 14th to the mid-19th century.
  • Volcanic eruptions (e.g., Tambora, Laki, Krakatoa) contributed but were not the sole cause.
  • The current climate is in a "periodo interglaciar" (warmer phase), further heated by human emissions.
  • Notable quote:
    "Ahora estamos en una fase en el que el clima de la Tierra es más cálido... este carácter cálido se ha incrementado debido a esas emisiones..." — Jorge Olcina (04:26)

3. Impact of Climate Change on Snow and Weather (05:48 — 09:14)

• Snow Is Becoming Scarcer: Less snowfall, shorter cold seasons, and shrinking glaciers are all direct consequences of warming.
  • "Nieva menos, mucho menos." — Carlos Alsina (05:48)
  • "Esto ha alterado... la cobertura de nieve, lo que decimos de manera perpetua, lo que llamamos los glaciares se van reduciendo..." — Jorge Olcina (05:52)
• Weather Extremes: Strange temperature swaps (e.g., Bilbao hotter than Sevilla), more frequent and intense heat waves, and erratic rainfall patterns are new norms.

4. Snow Types and Meteorological Phenomena (06:15 — 07:17)

• Discussion of various solid precipitation forms (nieve, escarcha, cencellada) and "hidrometeoros."
• "Hay diferentes maneras de presentarse esa precipitación helada en forma de sólida..." — Jorge Olcina (06:25)

5. Historic Snowfalls in Spain (07:17 — 09:14)

• Major Events Highlighted:
  • Filomena (2021)
  • 1926 snowfall (rare snow in Cádiz and Huelva)
  • Navidad 1970-71, 1985 cold snap
• Regardless of trends, snow and severe cold will still occur albeit less frequently.

6. Laboratory Climate Studies in Spain (10:45 — 12:45)

• On-going Research: Permanent monitoring of weather data.
• Three Direct Impacts of Climate Change:
  1. Increasing nighttime minimum temperatures (more “noches tropicales”).
  2. Greater rainfall irregularity.
  3. More extreme weather events (heat, rain, drought, storms).
• "...lo que llamamos eventos extremos vinculados con el calor, con la lluvia, con la falta de lluvia, con el viento importante, oleajes..." — Jorge Olcina (11:57)

7. The Architecture and Heritage of Snow: Neveros (12:45 — 28:19)

• Neveros (Snow Wells): These structures were central from the 15th to 19th centuries for storing ice/snow, necessary for food and beverage preservation before mechanical refrigeration.
  • In Alicante (Mediterranean), more common due to lack of natural cold.
  • In País Vasco (Basque Country), over 150 neveros identified—both natural (caves, cracks) and artificial (large, stone-built wells).
  • "El primero que hay que hacer para construir un nevero artificial es excavar generalmente una ladera..." — José Rodríguez (17:45)
• Ownership: Usually public (municipal), but also private (e.g., monasteries for profit).
• Snow/Ice Harvesting: Transport was mostly at night; snow was compacted with straw or other materials to aid insulation and handling.
  • "Se puede utilizar paja, se puede utilizar cualquier… elemento vegetal que ayude a separar un poco en capas..." — José Rodríguez (22:33)
• Conservation: Many neveros have deteriorated; some are preserved, especially those in protected areas. Awareness and restoration are ongoing.
  • "...forman parte de un patrimonio cultural necesario de conservar, de proteger." — Jorge Olcina (25:16)

8. Artificial Snow—Technology and Climate Limits (29:07 — 35:46)

• Can we make snow/rain artificially?
  • Limited success with silver iodide to seed clouds.
  • Most artificial snow for ski resorts is produced on the ground with “cañones de nieve” (snow cannons) or advanced Snow Factory systems.
• Snow Factory: Can make snow even at high temps by forming it inside a controlled machine before projecting it outside.
  • "Estas máquinas son capaces de fabricar a más altas temperaturas." — Jesús Ortiz (30:57)
• Types of Snow: Natural snow varies (powder, spring snow, hard-packed). Artificial and natural snows are both directly skiable after grooming.
  • "La nuestra es esquiable directamente..." — Jesús Ortiz (33:32)
• Economic importance:
  • First snow cannons in Spain in 1990 (Baqueira Beret); now more than 4,600 cannons servicing 400km of pistes.
  • "...el deporte de la nieve se ha convertido en un negocio también turístico y que mueve muchos cientos de millones de euros..." — Jorge Olcina (36:22)

9. Climate, Human Adaptation, and the Future (37:54 — 38:45)

• Ideal Climate for a Climatologist: One with regularity and without sharp extremes.
  • "Aquel que no tenga grandes alteraciones ni grandes sustos meteorológicos..." — Jorge Olcina (37:58)
• Unpredictability as Challenge and Opportunity:
  • The “anarchy” of today’s climate makes research both challenging and fascinating.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On climate change and unpredictability:
  "Estamos en unos años decisivos que no conseguimos cambiar esta dinámica de emisiones y de calentamiento. Por tanto, de momento hay que acostumbrarse a vivir en estas condiciones de un clima más cálido..." — Jorge Olcina (05:23)

• On the importance of preserving neveros:
  "Este tipo de construcciones, de obras de fábrica, nos manifiestan un poco el sentir popular del clima... está muy bien conocerla, conservarla y protegerla." — Jorge Olcina (25:16)

• On the ideal weather for a climatologist:
  "Aquel que no tenga grandes alteraciones ni grandes sustos meteorológicos, que sea un clima bastante normal, bastante estable dentro de la racionalidad..." — Jorge Olcina (37:58)

• On transporting snow/ice:
  "En ocasiones eran decenas y en algunos momentos... hasta centenares de kilómetros si era necesario. ...obviamente de noche era más sencillo..." — José Rodríguez (21:20)

• On artificial snow's role and controversy:
  "...no del acuerdo de todos, porque hay gente que está en contra de todo esto, pero bueno." — Jorge Olcina (37:22)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• How snow forms, its definition: 00:18–01:22
• Historical context & glaciation: 01:42–05:52
• Climate change impacts: 05:48–09:14
• Types of snow, meteorology: 06:15–07:17
• Historic Spanish snowfalls: 07:17–09:14
• Climate laboratory research: 10:45–12:45
• Neveros: history and heritage: 12:45–28:19
• Artificial and manufactured snow: 29:07–35:46
• Economic, social, and climate reflections: 36:22–38:45

Conclusion

With a balance of humor and expertise, the episode traces Spanish society’s past and present relationship with snow—celebrating its role in culture, economy, and daily life. The dialogue emphasizes how climate change is reshaping expectations and traditions, from erratic snowfalls to new snow technologies, and underlines the importance of preserving both physical and cultural heritage in an unstable climate.

For those interested in further reading, "Pozos de nieve en el País Vasco" is available online and in select specialized bookstores.