Podcast Summary: Más de Uno (Onda Cero)

Episode: Tertulia - ¿Es una victoria la suspensión de las jornadas de Pérez-Reverte?

Date: 29 de enero, 2026
Host: Carlos Alsina
Panelistas principales: María Daván, John Müller, Toni Bolaño, Rubén Amón, Marta García Ayer, Ignacio Urquizu

Overview of the Episode

This episode centers on two main topics:

1. A deep dive into the controversy surrounding the suspension of the “Jornadas Letras en Sevilla”, an annual literary and historical conference, after several high-profile participants withdrew, sparking debate about dialogue, memory, and polarization in Spain.
2. A data-driven and opinionated discussion about Spanish pensions and the perception of pensioners, their political significance, and the intergenerational tensions tied to economic challenges.

The tone is lively, at times humorous and biting, but always deeply analytical, especially as participants dissect issues of public debate, policies, and media spectacle.

1. The Suspension of the Jornadas Letras en Sevilla (00:00–26:08)

Context and Key Events

• The literary conference was postponed after several participants withdrew, notably David Uclés, who objected to sharing the program (not a panel) with figures like José María Aznar and Iván Espinosa de los Monteros.
• Uclés declared:
  "No tengo miedo al diálogo, pero nunca conversaré con un criminal de guerra" (presumably referencing Aznar, 15:28), and also criticized Espinosa de los Monteros for his stance on social rights.
• Arturo Pérez-Reverte, co-organizer, called the postponement a “victory” for Uclés, citing threats of protest and sabotage from far-left groups.

Main Discussion Points

Purpose and History of the Jornadas

• Alsina highlights that the Jornadas have historically featured diverse ideological views, citing a previous edition on the Catalan “procés” where opposing perspectives debated constructively (14:13–15:20).

Reasons for the Suspension

• Maria Daván criticizes the manner and reasoning of Uclés' withdrawal, suggesting he knew full well who was attending and that real dialogue was the original intent:

  “Él sabía a qué jornadas iba cuando confirmó. Eso me parece lo menos elegante de todo… Se toma como victoria silenciar un congreso que lo que buscaba era dialogar sobre la Guerra Civil y a mí me parece que esto no puede ser una victoria.” (17:16)

• Points raised that when major figures on the left withdrew, ideological diversity was lost, undercutting the event's value.

Freedom of Expression and Polarization

• Marta García Ayer laments the lost opportunity for intellectual debate and warns:

  "Este debate lo hemos perdido todos. Y lo hemos perdido por el sabotaje de una cierta izquierda intolerante... Sale perdiendo la libertad de expresión y sale ganando la intimidación de las ideas y el miedo..." (18:55)

Reflection on the Spanish Right and Left

• Discussion acknowledges that, while some on the right (especially Vox) have not clearly condemned Francoism, the objective wasn't apologia, but to critically analyze Spain’s history (23:25–24:04).
• Bolaño points out the irony:

  "Nos quejamos amargamente de que se ha intentado blanquear el franquismo... y cuando hay oportunidad de debatir sobre ideas, renunciamos por considerarnos insultados por los otros." (22:28)

Memorable Moment

• Reference to Fraga and Carrillo, once on opposite sides of the Civil War, able to share a stage—unlike today’s polarized climate:

  “Me parece una cobardía que personas que ya sabían quiénes eran los ponentes... se den de baja a última hora por estos ofendiditos que les parece mal que se celebre un debate.” — María Daván (20:33)

2. Spanish Pensioners: Realities and Politics (28:43–56:48)

Data and Electoral Importance (28:43–39:51)

Quantitative Snapshot

• Ignacio Urquizu provides a deep dive:
  • 9.4 million pensioners, 10.5 million pensions (many with dual benefits).
  • Pensión media: slightly over €1,500/month.
  • Men: €1,730; Women: €1,210/month.
• Despite perceptions, pensions are modest, and real affluence is heavily dependent on home ownership.

Political Impact

• Pensioners are the last bastion of Spanish bipartidismo.
  • PSOE: 31%, PP: 22% of pensioner vote in recent surveys — crucial for electoral results.
• Notably, pensioner support for Vox is rising (now 8%), while Sumar falls.
• Pensioners lean moderate ideologically, not heavily left or right, but they're more optimistic and less likely to believe another civil war is near, compared to younger Spaniards.

Social Perceptions and Tensions

• The “vida cañón” debate questions if pensioners are privileged over struggling youth.
  • María Daván:

    "La paradoja es que los pensionistas que pasan a serlo ya cobran más que el salario más frecuente en España." (36:37)

  • John Müller:

    “Seguramente el problema no es un conflicto generacional, sino que en España hay una situación donde el salario medio lleva estancado mucho tiempo.” (37:57)

• Key point: The real divide is more about wealth/patrimony (property ownership), not just pensions vs. salaries.

Intergenerational Dialogue

• Panel acknowledges older generations worked in tougher conditions to gain what they have but that today’s youth face insurmountable barriers in jobs and housing.
  • Alsina:

    "A los pensionistas nadie les ha regalado lo que tienen, lo que tienen es fruto de haber trabajado mucho." (39:28)

The Pension Decree and Political Strategy (49:12–56:48)

Drama over the “Decreto de Pensiones”

• The government included a pension hike in an omnibus bill, knowing it could fail and thus blame the opposition for pensioner uncertainty.
• Alsina highlights that a clean pensions-only decree would pass with bipartisan support, but the government prefers to build political capital by dramatizing the threat to pensioners.

Quotes and Analysis

• Carlos Alsina:

  “La solución… va a ser hacer un decreto con Junts per Cataluña... El decreto dice ‘se actualizan las pensiones’ y tiene ya la convalidación parlamentaria asegurada con los votos del Partido Popular y del PSOE. Todo lo demás es querer utilizar un asunto para otras cosas.” (49:55–50:33)

• John Müller:

  “Lo que le llega a la población al final es que uno lo quiere subir y el otro vota en contra, que es una gran simplificación, pero es lo que acaba llegando.” (50:42)

• The consensus: government is manipulating the message for electoral gain, generating “angustia innecesaria” among pensioners.

Panelist Criticisms

• Maria Daván:

  "Esta maniobra abunda en el desprecio que en parte está teniendo el gobierno hacia el Parlamento... habría que tener un poco más de respeto.”

• Toni Bolaño acknowledges that decrees ómnibus are routine but points out:

  “No son obligatorios. Tienes que saber las fuerzas que tienes… el Gobierno es que no sabe la fuerza que tiene.” (55:36–55:44)

Closing Reflection on Strategy

• The group agrees that the ultimate intent is narrative—being able to tell pensioners the PP voted against their welfare, regardless of the technical reality:

  “El objetivo no era aprobar el decreto, era estar en campaña repitiendo que el PP ha votado en contra de la revalorización de las pensiones.” — María Daván (56:48)

3. Other Notable Segments

Financing Autonómico & Ordinality Principle (60:54–67:02)

• Attempt to clarify the “principio de ordinalidad” (ordinality principle) in regional finance; Alsina quips about government evasiveness and lack of clear definition even after asking government spokespeople.
• Humorous close:

  "Podía haber dicho ‘las gallinas que entran por las que salen’” — Rubén Amón (63:09), mocking vagueness.

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• María Daván on the Jornada’s collapse:
  “Se toma como victoria silenciar un congreso que lo que buscaba era dialogar sobre la Guerra Civil…” (17:16)

• Marta García Ayer on intellectual loss:
  “Este debate lo hemos perdido todos… Sale perdiendo la libertad de expresión, sale ganando la intimidación de las ideas y el miedo…” (18:55)

• Carlos Alsina on political tactics:
  “Todo lo demás es querer utilizar un asunto para otras cosas.” (50:33)

• John Müller on public perception:
  “Lo que le llega a la población al final es que uno lo quiere subir y el otro vota en contra… es lo que acaba llegando.” (50:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–13:10: Introducción, actualidad y prensa española
• 14:13–26:08: Debate central sobre la suspensión de las Jornadas Letras en Sevilla
• 28:43–39:51: Ignacio Urquizu y datos sobre los pensionistas
• 49:12–56:48: Debate político sobre la subida de las pensiones y maniobras del gobierno
• 60:54–67:02: Principio de ordinalidad y financiación autonómica

Episode Takeaways

• The cancellation of the Jornadas Letras en Sevilla is seen as a defeat for dialogue and open debate, not a victory—regardless of ideological positioning.
• Spanish society remains deeply polarized in historical debates, with both sides culpable of “cancel culture” when convenient.
• Pensioners are crucial political actors, more moderate and pragmatic than stereotypes suggest, and leveraged as pawns in political narratives.
• The government is criticized for using pension policy and parliamentary tactics for electoral gain rather than straightforward governance.
• Structural generational tensions in Spain stem more from wealth inequality and opportunity than from pensions alone.

This episode is a nuanced, lively reflection of how contemporary Spanish political, cultural, and economic issues intertwine, offering both hard data, sharp opinion, humor, and insightful media critique.