At The Money: Building A Car Collection

Summary

Masters in Business: At The Money - Building A Car Collection

Host: Barry Ritholtz
Guest: Hannah Elliott, Supercar Reviewer for Bloomberg
Release Date: July 30, 2025

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Introduction to Car Collecting

In the episode titled "At The Money: Building A Car Collection," Bloomberg Radio host Barry Ritholtz engages in an insightful discussion with Hannah Elliott, a seasoned supercar reviewer with over 15 years of experience in covering cars, the auto industry, and car culture.

Is Building a Car Collection an Ill-Advised Idea?

Barry initiates the conversation by addressing whether building a car collection is a prudent endeavor.

Barry Ritholtz [02:38]: "If you like cars and you want to have joy in your life, buy an old car. Buy a vintage car. It's fun. Now if you are hoping that this is going to bring you a lot of money a long time down the road, probably not the best investment class, but there are a lot of other values that you get from owning old cars that aren't just about the money."

Key Insights:

• Passion Over Investment: For most enthusiasts, car collecting is a hobby driven by passion rather than financial gain.
• Enjoyment Factor: The intrinsic joy and satisfaction derived from owning and maintaining vintage cars outweigh potential monetary returns.

Hobby vs. Investment: Understanding the Distinction

Hannah probes deeper into whether car collecting is primarily a hobby or an investment.

Barry Ritholtz [03:21]: "For the average person, this is a hobby for sure. There are a lot of expenses associated with owning old cars... For most people, yes, it's a hobby, it costs money, but you have a lot of fun."

Key Points:

• Recurring Expenses: Ownership involves costs beyond the initial purchase, including storage, insurance, maintenance, and repairs.
• Relationship with Cars: Viewing car ownership as a dynamic relationship involves ongoing investment of time and resources.

Starting Your Car Collection: Passion vs. Potential Appreciation

The discussion shifts to strategies for initiating a car collection.

Barry Ritholtz [04:07]: "Buy things that you genuinely like. Buy things that genuinely excite you... If you buy something you like, you know you will enjoy it. And if you make a little money on top too, even better."

Guidelines for Beginners:

• Personal Preference: Prioritize cars that align with your personal interests and excitement.
• Value Retention: While not guaranteed, cars chosen out of passion are more likely to be maintained well, potentially retaining or increasing in value.

Budgeting for Car Collections

Barry provides practical advice on budgeting for car collecting.

Barry Ritholtz [05:04]: "There is an entry point, price point for every budget... For instance, if you buy something that you really like, even if it loses a bit of value over the years, you still get the value of owning something that you genuinely like."

Budgeting Tips:

• Diverse Price Points: From affordable models like older Porsches or Mazda Miatas to higher-end vehicles like Rolls Royces, there are options for various budgets.
• Maintenance Costs: Consider ongoing expenses such as insurance (specialized providers like Hagerty), repairs, and storage.
• No Direct Correlation Between Cost and Fun: Expensive cars aren't necessarily more enjoyable or reliable than more affordable options.

Choosing a Fun Starter Car

Hannah shares recommendations for those new to car collecting.

Unnamed Car Enthusiast [06:28]: "Check out the Honda S2000 convertible stick shift... Now the answer I give people is find a well sorted out Mazda Miata... so much fun for so little money."

Recommended Models:

• Honda S2000: Previously a popular choice but now appreciating in value.
• Mazda Miata: Highly recommended for its reliability, affordability, and driving pleasure.

Barry's Endorsement:

Barry Ritholtz [07:19]: "Mazda Miata... It's such a fun car. Parts are readily available, it's very predictable... You can get one in driving condition for $8,100."

Establishing a Theme or Focus for Your Collection

The importance of having a thematic focus in car collecting is emphasized.

Barry Ritholtz [08:00]: "It's nice to have a theme or a focus because it creates efficiencies... You start to learn who the trusted mechanics are. It just makes it easier."

Benefits of Themed Collections:

• Specialization: Easier maintenance with trusted mechanics who specialize in specific makes.
• Community Engagement: Deeper involvement with local enthusiast groups centered around specific brands or types.
• Resource Optimization: Efficient part swapping and maintenance within a focused collection.

Engaging with Local Car Communities

Barry discusses the value of participating in local car clubs.

Barry Ritholtz [09:33]: "It's important... you have a network, a support network. They'll lead you to... the right mechanic, the right place to find a part."

Advantages of Car Clubs:

• Support Network: Access to knowledgeable members and resources.
• Community Building: Opportunities to form friendships and partnerships within the car collecting community.
• Educational Opportunities: Learning from experienced collectors and enthusiasts.

Storage Solutions Beyond Your Garage

Exploring various storage options, Barry highlights alternatives to personal garages.

Barry Ritholtz [10:52]: "Car clubs can be a little bit expensive, but again it's an investment in the hobby... They will also maintain the car for you in house, which is a great benefit."

Storage Options:

• Car Clubs: Offer secure storage and maintenance services, fostering a communal environment.
• Specialized Garages: Facilities that provide climate-controlled storage and specialized care.
• Private Storage Units: Personal storage solutions for those with adequate space and security.

Essential Resources for Aspiring Car Collectors

Barry recommends valuable resources to aid in car collecting.

Barry Ritholtz [11:39]: "K500 is an index that Simon Kidson runs out of England... They have amazing data on values, trends, history."

Key Resources:

• Hagerty: Specialized insurance for classic and vintage cars.
• Bring a Trailer: Online auction platform for buying and selling unique vehicles.
• K500: An advanced index for high-end car valuation and historical data.
• Auto Tempest: A relational database for detailed car searches and specifications.

Importance of Documentation and Due Diligence

Ensuring proper documentation is crucial when acquiring vintage cars.

Barry Ritholtz [13:03]: "You want to make sure you see the title with the seller's name on the title... The more maintenance records, the better."

Documentation Essentials:

• Clear Title: Verify the authenticity and ownership of the vehicle.
• Service History: Comprehensive maintenance records indicating responsible ownership.
• Ownership Duration: Prefer cars with long-term single ownership to ensure proper care.
• Professional Consultation: Especially for international purchases, seek expert advice to navigate title transfers and legalities.

Conclusion: Common Sense and Passion Fuel Successful Car Collecting

Barry wraps up the discussion by reiterating the blend of passion and practicality required for successful car collecting.

Unnamed Car Enthusiast [13:54]: "You don't need a ton of money. You could start with just something very basic like a Miata or an old SL, but find the cars you really like, do your homework, get to know your local enthusiast club... and learn from the experts how to make a good decision with a car that will bring you pleasure and maybe a little money for as long as you own it."

Final Takeaways:

• Start Small: Begin with an affordable, enjoyable model.
• Research Thoroughly: Invest time in understanding the market and maintenance needs.
• Engage with the Community: Leverage local clubs and experts for support and knowledge.
• Enjoy the Journey: Prioritize personal satisfaction and the joy of owning classic automobiles.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductions, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussion between Barry Ritholtz and Hannah Elliott regarding building a car collection.

Transcript

[Barry Ritholtz]

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[Hannah Elliott]

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[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

Are you passionate about cars? Are you interested in collecting, rebuilding, racing or showing them? Have you ever considered having more cars than you could reasonably drive in a given week or month? Classic cars have been appreciating rapidly and if my emails are anything to go by, quite a few of you have caught the fever. If you've ever wondered what it's like to build and own a car collection, well then I have the perfect guest for you. Hannah Elliott is the supercar reviewer for Bloomberg. She's been covering cars, the auto industry and exploring car culture for over 15 years. She also drives a 1975 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. So Hannah, let's start broadly. How does a person who's passionate about cars find themselves with a collection? Is this an ill advised idea?

[Barry Ritholtz]

That's a great question. I think the quick answer is no, it's not an ill advised idea. If you like cars and you want to have joy in your life, buy an old car. Buy a vintage car. It's fun. Now if you are hoping to that this is going to bring you a lot of money a long time down the road. Probably not the best investment class, but there are a lot of other values that you get from owning old cars that aren't just about the money.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So since you brought up the money, what separates a passion project for from an asset class for the average car guy or car gal? Is this a hobby or is this an investment?

[Barry Ritholtz]

For the average person, this is a hobby for sure. There are a lot of expenses associated with owning old cars on top of the initial purchase price that you know, of course you've got to think about storage, you've got to think about insurance, you've got to think about maintenance, repairs, gas. Obviously there are lots of things that are going to come up. I think it's important to think of it as a relationship. This is a give and take thing. There may be a little bit of dysfunction. It's not just going to be, you know, ride off into the sunset and you, you pay up front and you never pay again. For most people, yes, it's a hobby, it costs money, but you have a lot of fun.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So where does one begin? Do you go with the models that excite you or do you try and pick those cars that are going to appreciate over time?

[Barry Ritholtz]

For somebody just getting involved in owning old cars, I would really strongly recommend you, you buy things that you genuinely like. Buy things that genuinely excite you. Sometimes if you're really lucky, maybe those things will retain their value. Maybe they will even gain value over years if you hold something for a long time. But here's the thing, if you buy something that you really like, even if it loses a bit of value over the years, you still get the value of owning something that you genuinely like. Whereas if you buy something simply because you think it might gain value it, if it loses value, you're kind of out because you didn't necessarily like it and you didn't make a lot of money on it. So it's kind of a lose lose. At least if you buy something you like, you know you will enjoy it. And if you make a little money on top too, even better.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

Let's talk budgets. What do you need to become a hobbyist and what are some of the costs that you should budget going forward?

[Barry Ritholtz]

Okay, I would like to say there is a vintage car. For every price point you can buy an old Porsche. Now, I'm not gonna say an air cooled 911, but you can buy an old Porsche from a swap meet in Pomona, California for 8 grand, 10 grand. It's gonna need some work. But you know, I buy old Rolls Royces. I have bought them for ten grand. Now that maintenance costs a little bit more on that and we can talk about that. But I Just wanna illustrate. There is an entry point, price point for every budget of course. And I would say I don't think there's necessarily a correlation between spending a lot of money and having a lot more fun on a car that's perfect and spending less money and you're going to have less fun and the car is going to need a lot of work. There's not necessarily a correlation. You can spend a lot of money on something and it's not great to drive and it requires a lot more maintenance. Obviously registering a car is a one time thing. Insuring a car. There are many vintage cars, insurers like Hagerty for instance, that have pretty great insurance policies and you can even get less expensive insurance policies on classics if you don't because you don't drive them as much because they're not daily drivers. So it's worth going with a insurance provider that specializes in classic cars that will charge you less.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

When people used to ask me for suggestions for a fun car to start with, I used to say hey, check out the Honda S2000 convertible stick shift. Ton of fun. But those have been appreciating. So now the answer I give people is find a well sorted out Mazda Miata. Also with a convertible, a stick shift. So much fun for so little money. And you could go from there if you want.

[Barry Ritholtz]

You know what, as you said Mazda Miata, I was typing Mazda Miata. So we are completely tracking. You're so right. It's a, it's such a fun car. Parts are readily available, it's very predictable. You know, it's not going to need a lot of maintenance. You can get a manual and I'm looking right now on Hagerty's price values. You can get one in driving condition for $8,100.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

That's amazing. You get a nice one for 10, $12,000. They're very reliable, they're very tossable. It's just a beautifully balanced car and they have some history. That's the car that sort of brought back the resurgence in convertibles. So, so the other question I wanted to ask is how important is it to have a theme or a focus for your interest or collection? And I asked that knowing your husband specifically collects Air cooled 9 11s from the 60s and 70s. Some people have a broad assortment like Jay Leno, but for the average person thinking about adding a car or two, where do they go?

[Barry Ritholtz]

You know, it's nice to have a theme or a focus because it creates efficiencies. For instance, if you have a Great mechanic who works on your Mercedes, he'll be able to take on more Mercedes vehicles. Whereas if you bring him something else, a Miata for instance, there may not be as much overlap. It's kind of nice to have a specialist. You know, I've also got a 77C3 Corvette. You know, that car goes to one guy, the Rolls Royces go to another guy, the Porsches go to another guy. So when you do have a theme it creates more efficiencies. You can send them all to the same person to work on them, you can swap parts. That's also a nice efficiency. Also you can get involved more deeply in the local culture of whatever that make is, which is really fun because when you start talking to other people who own similar makes or even if you're just going to say all British cars or all Ital, you know, Alfa Romeos for instance, you kind of, it's fun to get involved in a culture that focuses on that thing. You talk to old timers who have a wealth of knowledge, who can give you tips. You start to learn who the trusted mechanics are. It just makes it easier. So I do really like the idea of having a particular theme to it.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So you mentioned earlier the local car community or the enthusiast community. How important is it to get involved with your local BMW or Miata or Porsche club in your neighborhood?

[Barry Ritholtz]

It's important. I think it's a nice value added thing to get involved with other like minded enthusiasts in your era. I think area, I think, you know, that is some of those clubs can be really picky. Of course I'm thinking of Rolls Royce people. You know, I sort of deliber avoid some of the Rolls Royce clubs in, in Los Angeles because those guys are, they know their stuff, which is great and not great. They, I don't drive mint condition cars so you know, they certainly are friendly but they also can tell me everything that's wrong with the car. So you know, I, I, I tried to get.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

That can be useful, right?

[Barry Ritholtz]

It's useful, it's useful. The, the broader answer is yes, of course, get involved. The more people you have around you, hey, at some point you're going to break down, you, you need to phone a friend and AAA is great but you know, you just want people around you who are a network, a support network. They'll lead you to again, the right mechanic, the right place to find a part. Maybe you end up getting a second car and the same theme. They're gonna, they're going to know who wants to trade, who wants who can, you know, lead you down a path, deeper down the rabbit hole of whatever your drug of choice is.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

And you mentioned garages, but there are other options for storing a car. It's not just your own garage. What are some of the other storage?

[Barry Ritholtz]

Car clubs. Car clubs can be a little bit expensive, but again it's an investment in the hobby. There are many car clubs. I just know Manhattan and LA because that's where I live. But there are some great car clubs of course, across the south in Arizona. Car clubs are great because again you pay a price per month for them to store your car. Often they will also maintain the car for you in house, which is a great benefit. And again you get exposed to similar people, like minded enthusiasts who are keeping their cars there. It's all at the end of the day about building this community of people, friends, colleagues who enjoy what you enjoy.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So you mentioned Hagerty and you mentioned bring a trailer. What other resources should potential car collectors know about?

[Barry Ritholtz]

The third one that comes to mind is K500 which is an index that Simon Kidson runs out of England. Very good on really high end. Now this is like an advanced move, K500. You need a membership to subscribe. But again they have amazing data on values, trends, history. They will have specific pedigrees and lineages of particular cars. This is for the really high end stuff. But I also look at K500 just as educational. They've got, they cover all of the auctions, they've got analysis, they've got experts. Steve. Steve Wakefield is Simon Kitson, sort of top analyst. Those guys are really great. They're out of England so I recommend it.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

Ever play with Auto Tempest as a web?

[Hannah Elliott]

No.

[Barry Ritholtz]

No.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So it's just a giant relational database that lets you search for any year or group of years for any marquee and specific car and specific variants and then you can refine that search for. All right, show me just the convertibles. I want to see just the cars with the sticks. Just show me this color.

[Barry Ritholtz]

I like that.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

And it really allows you to hone in and it pulls in stuff from tons and tons of other stuff.

[Barry Ritholtz]

Auto Tempest.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

Auto Tempest. So last question, let's talk about documentation. How important is it to make sure that you're not only getting clear title but seeing the service history of any vehicle you're thinking about purchasing?

[Barry Ritholtz]

I think it's important. Obviously you want to make sure you see the title with the seller's name on the title. For some older cars and race cars, a bill of sale is also used. Some cars don't have titles if they're really old, so a bill of sale is used. If you're buying a car from Europe, that can be pretty complicated to confirm to transfer a bill of sale into like an American style title, so you might want to consult a professional about that. The more maintenance records, the better. Obviously, the longer ownership span that a car has by a single owner, generally the better. You don't want a car that's been flipped, you know, every two years because generally that car, there's a reason it's being flipped and it may not have been maintained so lovingly as someone who owned their special baby for 20 years. So the more records you can have, the better.

[Unnamed Car Enthusiast]

So to wrap up, there's a lot of common sense involved in this. You don't need a ton of money. You could start with just something very basic like a Miata or an old sl, but find the cars you really like, do your homework, get to know your local enthusiast club or that particular BMW or Porsche club, and learn from the experts how to make a good decision with a car that will bring you pleasure and maybe a little money for as long as you own it. I'm Barry Ritholtz, you're listening to Bloomberg's at the Money.

[Hannah Elliott]

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[Barry Ritholtz]

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