Masters in Business – At The Money: Monetizing Dirt

Host: Barry Ritholtz (Bloomberg)
Guest: Brandon Zick, Chief Investment Officer, Saris Farmland Fund
Release Date: October 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of "At The Money", Barry Ritholtz delves into the world of alternative land investing—specifically, how farmland and other "dirt" assets are monetized in ways far beyond traditional farming. Guest Brandon Zick, CIO of Saris Farmland Fund, shares insights from managing $2.2 billion in agricultural assets, discussing how various types of rights—mineral, timber, renewable energy, recreation, and more—unlock new streams of value and revenue for landowners. The conversation provides a comprehensive look at the investment case for land, surprising ways “dirt” is monetized, and why these trends are likely to intensify in the future.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Optionality of Land Ownership

[03:17] Brandon Zick:

• Farmland is compelling because it offers layers of optionality—beyond agriculture, there’s income potential from mineral rights, timber, recreational leases, and more.
• "When you own the real estate, when you own the dirt, you have a lot of optionality, starting with mineral rights." (03:22)
• Zick describes how his own family farm in NE Pennsylvania saw its value soar thanks to the Marcellus Shale discovery, demonstrating how “unknown” optionality can emerge with time.

2. Monetizing Mineral Rights

[04:11-05:51]

• Mineral rights, especially in regions with oil and gas (e.g., Marcellus and Utica Shale), can produce cash flows far outweighing farm income, sometimes $4,000–$5,000 per acre per year versus land valued at $1,500–$2,000 per acre.

• Extraction is typically non-intrusive (via horizontal drilling/wells from property edges or adjacent lands).

• Regulatory frameworks (e.g., unitization) aim to ensure fair compensation among neighboring landowners.

  Notable Quote:

  • "You had land that probably would have transacted...for $1,500 to $2,000 an acre. It was generating 4,000 or $5,000 per acre in revenue per year. Wow, that's a lot."
    — Barry Ritholtz (04:48)

3. Recreational Leases (Hunting & More)

[06:34-07:40]

• Landowners can generate significant off-season revenue by leasing land for recreation, especially hunting.
• There’s a robust rental market, often mediated through third parties that require insurance and enforce boundaries.
• "There's a lease being paid. And once someone's paying and paying for the insurance, they're enforcing the boundaries...which is great."
  — Brandon Zick (07:15)

4. Renewable Energy: Wind and Solar Leases

[07:40-09:37]

• Wind farms bring incremental, low-footprint income to farmers ($$ typically 20–50 basis points of income), but permitting has gotten tougher due to aesthetic, land use, and environmental (bird migration) concerns.
• Solar projects, by contrast, are more “transformational”—they require more land but generate income several times larger than mere farming or wind could, and can be viable for smaller parcels.
• "What you tend to see on the solar side is revenue that could be anywhere from three to five times the total return of farmland plus wind."
  — Brandon Zick (08:47)
• Ritholtz humorously proposes using light or sound cues on wind turbine blades to protect migratory birds (09:37), to which Zick replies: "It seems like it hasn't been solved yet, so someone might be on it. But this could be an idea for you." (10:21)

5. Biogas (Anaerobic Digestion)

[10:48-11:18]

• Not as lucrative for landlords directly, but farm tenants (especially dairy) can turn manure into energy, creating a "green" revenue stream.
• Particularly prevalent in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and New York.

6. Timber as an Asset Class

[11:18-12:36]

• Timberlands are a major institutional asset class, especially in Canada, northern Michigan, and the Southeast US.
• Large-scale owners dominate, selling to end-users. High-value hardwoods add nuance, but overall, it’s a mature sector, less scalable than others.

7. Conservation Payments and Carbon Credits

[12:36-15:30]

• While carbon sequestration and credits are frequently discussed, the panel is skeptical about their financial value for farmers—many sustainable practices (like cover cropping) are already common, and the "strings attached" often outweigh benefits.

  Notable Quotes:

  • "[Carbon credits:] The landowner and the farmer should probably get a bigger portion of the credit than the person who's transacting...But that's not how it works."
    — Brandon Zick (14:17)

• Conservation easements and wetlands banking (selling credits for land preserved as wetlands) provide more reliable options in specific regions with high development pressure.

8. The AI/Data Center Boom and Land Values

[15:30-17:07]

• The growth of artificial intelligence has triggered a wave of data center construction in rural areas.
• Data centers seek sites with plentiful electricity (from grid or natural gas), fiber optic access, and water for cooling—electric transmission lines now boost, rather than depress, land values.
• "Now it's like being right next to the exit on the interstate. It's a huge bonus for that land."
  — Brandon Zick (16:19)
• Big tech (Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta) are the main players, sometimes transforming entire midwestern communities.

9. Legacy and Traditional Land Uses

[17:18–17:47]

• Manufacturing and distribution centers continue to be key non-farm uses.
• These uses can boost land values by 5x, 10x—even 20x over pure agricultural value.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “They ain't making any more land. So this is likely to keep staying popular in the future.”
  — Barry Ritholtz (17:47)
• "If you don't own land, that comes through the rental market and there is a robust rental market."
  — Brandon Zick (07:09)
• “Now maybe from an agronomy standpoint, but if they're doing it anyway, you don't need to sign a contract.”
  — Brandon Zick, on voluntary vs. contractual conservation practices (14:35)

Key Segment Timestamps

• [03:17] — Land as an "optionality-rich" real asset
• [04:11] — Mineral rights and Marcellus Shale example
• [06:34] — Hunting/recreation leases
• [07:40] — Wind & solar lease mechanics, impact, and economics
• [10:48] — Biogas projects and revenue
• [11:18] — Timber as an investment class
• [12:36] — Conservation, carbon credits, and regulatory realities
• [15:30] — Land value explosion due to data centers and AI boom
• [17:18] — Legacy uses: manufacturing/distribution centers

Conclusion: Why Land Remains Attractive

Land’s enduring appeal—to farmers, institutions, and now tech giants—goes far beyond “dirt value.” The explosion of new revenue opportunities (energy, minerals, recreation, conservation, and especially data centers) gives landowners more ways than ever to “monetize dirt”—a phrase that captures the core of Brandon Zick’s thesis. As Ritholtz notes, they may never make more land, but the ways to profit from it keep multiplying.