Loading summary
Transcript167 lines
- [00:00]
Nuveen Announcer
This message is brought to you by Nuveen. How would you invest if you knew the future was watching at Nuveen? This isn't a theoretical question, it's a perspective that comes from navigating 125 years of market cycles and the changing needs of investors around the world. Visit Nuveen.com future to learn more. Investing involves risk. Principal loss is possible this holiday season.
- [00:24]
Express Employment Announcer
Is likely to be a roller coaster for logistics and manufacturing, but having the right staff in place can be easy. When you choose Express employment professionals, they can handle everything. To ensure you have the right size contract workforce, go to expresspros.com solve your workforce challenges. When you choose Express to support your hiring in a variety of roles, including two of our biggest areas, manufacturing and logistics, visit ExpressPros.com today. That's ExpressPros.com running small and medium sized.
- [00:54]
Jamie Margera
Businesses is hard work. Business owners need to be sure their ads are working just as hard as they do, and Amazon streaming TV ads makes your marketing dollar work harder. With Amazon ads, trillions of insights help small and medium businesses reach the right customers that matter. Your ads will show up during the shows the people are actually watching and measurement tools show you what's working the hardest. Gain the edge with Amazon Ads.
- [01:23]
Nuveen Announcer
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is Masters in Business with Barry Ritholtz on Bloomberg Radio.
- [01:38]
Barry Ritholtz
This week on the podcast. Wow. What can I say. Jamie Margera is head of BlackRock's US wealth advisory business as well as running their retirement business. BlackRock is the $12 trillion investment giant, the biggest asset manager in the world. Jamie has been working for the firm effectively since 2001, where she began at Merrill Lynch Investment Managers, which was merged with Blackrock in 06. She's risen through the ranks and has really seen every aspect of the wealth management and product services, everything from iShares to their alpha products to alternatives. She has quite a fascinating history and there are few people better able to describe and discuss how the wealth management business is changing and where it's going than her. I found this conversation to be fascinating and I think you will also. With no further ado, BlackRock's head of US wealth advisory business, Jamie Margera.
- [02:48]
Jamie Margera
It is so good to be here.
- [02:50]
Barry Ritholtz
It's so good to have you. I've been looking forward to this conversation, but I want to before we get up to the US wealth advisory business and retirement business of BlackRock, let's talk a little bit about your background. You go to University of Pennsylvania Undergraduate. What'd you study? What was the plan.
- [03:08]
Jamie Margera
So I studied psychology. I went to University of Pennsylvania. My brother went there as well. My sister went there as well. Psychology major. I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I was that kid that loved working. So I had, you know, any job I had when I was growing up, I just loved. I was a babysitter, I worked at a bakery. I taught tennis lessons. I did it all and I loved it.
- [03:31]
Barry Ritholtz
Taught tennis. Are you any good? You still play?
- [03:33]
Jamie Margera
I am incredible. Don't ask my husband, singles or doubles. So I don't play well or regularly any longer. There is a story behind that which maybe I'll share with you. But my husband does play tennis. He's incredible. And he coaches at West Point.
- [03:48]
Barry Ritholtz
Oh, wow, that's amazing. So what was the first gig right out of Up?
- [03:53]
Jamie Margera
So, you know, I was a psychology major and I knew that I was fascinated with people and also with distribution. And I'll come onto that in a second. Because I was a music person. I loved music. I wanted to be in the music industry. So my plan was, do I go FBI criminal psychology or do I go into the music industry?
- [04:12]
Barry Ritholtz
Very similar, very similar. And I'm not being sarcastic because you're profiling people who perhaps have certain deviant perspectives about the world.
- [04:22]
Jamie Margera
I'll leave it there. Okay. And so I had to make a decision. And so I was going towards the music industry. And so people always say, well, were you a performer? Did you sing? Were you classically trained? The answer is no. But I was fascinated with the business of music and the distribution of music. And so at that time, remember, it was kind of Napster, right? So like things were going, wait, like.
- [04:42]
Barry Ritholtz
Late 90s, is that what we're talking about?
- [04:44]
Jamie Margera
Oh, yeah. So we're going from CDs to digital distribution. And I just found it to be fantastic, fascinating. And, and what did that mean for the business and the implications for artists? And so I had this dream. I was going to be a big time record label exec. I had internships, I got a job. At the time it was Sony bmg. And then I realized as I got my offer letter that I wasn't quite sure how I was going to, you know, sustain my life, pay my bills. My parents helped massively with college, but there was some student debt that I had to pay off. And so at the time, my brother was a financial advisor. So I called him up and I said, hey, big bro, what do you recommend? What should I do? And I was thinking he'd Give me some financial advice. And his advice was get a real job that's going to help you pay your bills and then you can go back into music after. And so that's kind of how I made my way into finance.
- [05:32]
Barry Ritholtz
So what was the real job?
- [05:34]
Jamie Margera
So the real job was working at Merrill Lynch.
- [05:36]
Barry Ritholtz
So your whole career you've been in the same. More or less the same place. That's amazing.
- [05:40]
Jamie Margera
Yeah. And there's this theme as you kind of look through different things I've done throughout my career. But I started at Merrill Investment Managers, which was the asset management arm of Merrill Lynch. And I wanted to be the farthest thing away from markets because I had no experience. I didn't know what the markets were. I didn't even know what a mutual fund was. And so I joined Merrill as an analyst in their analyst program. And I was a technology project manager.
- [06:06]
Barry Ritholtz
Wait, so as an analyst, did you become a cfa? Did you go through that process or.
- [06:11]
Jamie Margera
I did not. So you get all of your series sevens and everything else, but I was responsible for. Again, let's date ourselves here. The late 90s, early 2000s E business was the thing. Right. So it's going to be big one day. It's going to be big one day. There's this whole thing called the Internet. And so at the time, Merrill did not even have a website for their financial advisors.
- [06:31]
Barry Ritholtz
How is that possible?
- [06:32]
Jamie Margera
I know.
- [06:32]
Barry Ritholtz
Can you imagine 2001. We're gonna, we're gonna wait and see if this thing becomes.
- [06:37]
Jamie Margera
Takes off.
- [06:38]
Barry Ritholtz
Right.
- [06:38]
Jamie Margera
I have a feeling.
- [06:39]
Barry Ritholtz
Right.
- [06:40]
Jamie Margera
So that's.
- [06:40]
Barry Ritholtz
I have a good feeling. Yeah.
- [06:42]
Jamie Margera
Yeah. So that's unbelievable. Where I started.
- [06:44]
Barry Ritholtz
And so did you help build out the first set of Merrill lynch websites for their. Is this for outward facing, for clients, internally for advisors and brokers, or.
- [06:54]
Jamie Margera
A little bit everything for advisors and brokers. And so that's where I first learned, you know, the role of the financial advisor and what it is to be a financial advisor and how you serve your clients and how hard it is and, and what it is to actually sell and support and serve those financial advisors. But that was the job. It was translating technology speak into business and client needs.
- [07:16]
Barry Ritholtz
Really interesting. So I know you've had multiple, multiple roles at both Merrill and blackrock. Let's quickly walk up the ladder. So from that, what was the next role?
- [07:27]
Jamie Margera
So I always had this, this idea that I wanted to get closer to the client. So I would move and you'll see, for my career, I moved into roles that were closer to clients. So from There I went into marketing, which you really learned strategic messaging and how to simplify and help people understand what you're doing. I then went into our retirement business where there I used to help participants understand how to enroll in their 401k plan. I mean, literally going around the country helping people figure out how to save and how to invest. And then I moved back into the wealth business, which is where I am today, along with leading our retirement business. And the wealth business was the first time when I came back into it that I actually had direct client accountability. And that was important to me because I had done technology and marketing and product and strategy and everything else. But I had never been responsible for helping to solve client problems directly.
- [08:16]
Barry Ritholtz
And to clarify, you didn't just kind of move into the wealth business. You are the head of BlackRock's U.S. wealth advisory business. That is not like just, you're not just casually drifting into that space, you're running it. So. So let's talk a little bit about how you got there. So Maryland Blackrock merged in 2006 when the dust settled. What was your title back then?
- [08:42]
Jamie Margera
So back then I had moved into marketing and I was the head of marketing for our wealth business. Then Fast forward to BlackRock acquired BGI and iShares.
- [08:52]
Barry Ritholtz
I recall one of the greatest acquisitions.
- [08:55]
Jamie Margera
In finance history and a theme for BlackRock on just structural growth and how we view where the, where the world is going, how we meet the needs to be there. But at that point, leadership had asked me to bring together all of the retirement businesses that were legacy, BlackRock, legacy iShares, legacy BGI. And I was part of that team.
- [09:14]
Barry Ritholtz
In other words, turn it into one unique company instead of all these separate pieces. How long did that process take?
- [09:21]
Jamie Margera
It was, I mean, every day was another step in that process. And you know, we learn over the years how important it is to integrate and to acquire. When you acquire, you're acquiring for capabilities, but you're acquiring for talent and culture. And so the match between the firms was really strong and that helped us to integrate even faster.
- [09:38]
Barry Ritholtz
So you began this process late 2006 and right around the corner comes the financial crisis. How did that get in the way or affect this entire post merger situation? It had to be pretty disruptive, certainly on the client level. How did it affect what you were doing?
- [09:58]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, I mean of course it was disruptive. And I think this kind of goes back to part of the vision with BlackRock. Always was. And I mentioned the term structural growth, but what does that really mean? It means Durable engines of growth, resilient engine of growth, growth that can persist, market cycles. And so even through a financial crisis, the fact that we had our iShares ETF range, we had fixed income, we had equity, we had cash, we had everything you can imagine. And we had Aladdin. Remember Aladdin? Our technology platform was massively helpful to so many firms and institutions and governments during that time. So we had multiple ways to lead through that and help our clients through that crisis.
- [10:40]
Barry Ritholtz
Huh. Really, really quite fascinating. And back then, you know, is a couple of $trillion dollars. Now BlackRock is what, 11 $12 trillion. That's the largest asset manager in the world. I want to say Vanguard is probably 10, 20% behind you, nipping at your heels. But between Vanguard and BlackRock, these are two of the most storied firms. And in fact the new CEO of Vanguard used to run a division over.
- [11:09]
Jamie Margera
Great friend of mine, Celine, which, which.
- [11:11]
Barry Ritholtz
Really just goes to tell, I recall interviewing him when he was at at blackrock and like how that guy's going to go somewhere one day. But what's fascinating is just how unbelievably successful the iShare business became. But people tend to think of retail, investors tend to think about BlackRock in terms of iShares. But BlackRock is really so much more. It's not only passive beta, but there are alpha seeking strategies and as we'll discuss later, there are alternatives. So there are a lot of things going on at BlackRock. As head of the US Wealth Advisory, what is the core focus? What are the balls that you keep in the air all the time?
- [11:52]
Jamie Margera
Time. Yeah. So one of the things I love about the wealth business generally is that it is changing so rapidly. It's dynamic. Every day there is something new, investor preferences are changing, there's different client segments. And as you said, it's not just about iShares. I mean we have so many capabilities that we can bring to bear. And so when we wake up every day, what we think about at BlackRock is how do we make investing easier, right? How do we get more people access to the capital markets? And that used to be public markets, now it's public and private markets, but that's what we do. And when you think about our wealth business, we do that through financial advisors and with wealth management firms. So our job in our wealth business is to help advisors and the firms that they work for build better portfolios for their clients so that they can achieve their dreams. And we aim to power their growth, to help them scale their businesses so that they can do what they do best, which is serving their clients. And so that's what we wake up doing every single day in the wealth business.
- [12:48]
Barry Ritholtz
So I've seen a variety of various BlackRock model portfolios. If you have a bond ladder that you have concerns about, you can run it by the blackrock folks. And hey, here are your options. We really haven't talked about SMAs, which I know is a really fast growing part of the business. Is there a priority or are all these things just day by day you're just checking off different boxes and working on different projects?
- [13:15]
Jamie Margera
Yeah. So our priority is serving the client, meeting their need. And when we look at the wealth market and talk to advisors every single day, there's really three, call them client segments, investor segments that advisors are trying to serve and win and build relationships with. And we're trying to help the advisor do so. So those three segments, think about the next gen investor, think about women and think about high net worth and we'll hit on kind of direct indexing and everything that we do through that. But if you think about those three segments, and it's a broad way to think about this, there's exceptions to every rule here. But next gen, what are we talking about? It's the millennials, right? It's, it's, it's.
- [13:52]
Barry Ritholtz
And Gen Z.
- [13:53]
Jamie Margera
And gen Z, it's 44% of the population. So it is a massive number by quantity, but it's also a massive number by assets. Right. That generation is going to inherit 70 trillion plus in assets over the next few years. And so what's interesting and what's different about these folks is that they want to invest in line with their beliefs. They're incredibly tech savvy. In fact, they trust digital and social more than they might even trust humans these days. But they want advice from advisors and they want to invest in things that are new and interesting. And so you think about bitcoin, right? Bitcoin. 80 plus percent of millennial millionaires hold crypto. They're more inclined to use crypto than stocks and mutual funds. So what we were doing and investing and innovating in, in service of client demand is creating a Bitcoin ETF.
- [14:42]
Barry Ritholtz
Ibit. I bet one of, if not the fastest growing ETF in history. Fastest to a billion to 5 billion to 10. But I haven't even looked at what it is.
- [14:51]
Jamie Margera
85 on.
- [14:53]
Barry Ritholtz
Unbelievable. This is less than two years old, right?
- [14:56]
Jamie Margera
Yes.
- [14:56]
Barry Ritholtz
That's incredible. $85 billion and no passwords, no loss. This, no that, that. They've taken. What was a. You know, whenever I see the return claims for, for Bitcoin, I always have to point out, hey, 20, 30% of coins have been lost, passwords have been lost, drives break. So subtract a third of all of that. But really it's it's this or zero if you totally lost it. You guys have made this a traditional financial product. So it's pretty amazing. And we've seen like a general acceptance of hey, Everybody should have 1% or maybe a little more, a little less, whatever your needs are of some bitcoin. And this seems to be the easiest way to do it.
- [15:41]
Jamie Margera
I think we'll see a lot more of that too. I think we're going to see a lot of firms coming out now to say we are actually going to allow advisors to incorporate this into portfolios on the fee based side on the advisory platforms. And so I think this is just the beginning. But it's also just a perfect example of if you understand where clients are going and you have the capability set to innovate and build products around it, then you can deliver those products to market and help advisors better serve their clients.
- [16:05]
Barry Ritholtz
And ibit's a perfect example of that. Really, really quite fascinating. Coming up, we continue our conversation with Jamie Margera, head of BlackRock's US wealth advisory business and head of BlackRock's retirement business, discussing wealth management and retirement. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Rad.
- [16:31]
Nuveen Announcer
This message is brought to you by nuveen. How would you invest if you knew the future was watching at nuveen? This isn't a theoretical question. It's a perspective that comes from navigating 125 years of market cycles, using foresight to innovate and adapt to the changing needs of investors around the world, and remaining steadfast in the pursuit of lasting performance for clients, communities and the global economy. Nuveen invest like the future is watching visit nuveen.com future to learn more. Investing involves risk, principal loss as possible in business.
- [17:08]
Express Employment Announcer
They say you can have better, cheaper or faster, but you only get to pick two. What if you could have all three at the same time? That's exactly what Cohere, Thomson Reuters and Specialized Bikes have since they upgraded to the next generation of the cloud. Oracle Cloud Infrastructure OCI is the blazing fast platform for your infrastructure, database, application development and AI needs where you can run any workload in a high availability, consistently high performance environment and spend less than you would with other clouds. How is it faster. OCI's block storage gives you more operations per second cheaper. OCI costs up to 50% less for computing, 70% less for storage, and 80% less for networking. Better. In test after test, OCI customers report lower latency and higher bandwidth versus other clouds. This is the cloud built for AI and all your biggest workloads right now with zero commitment. Try OCI for free. Head to oracle.com strategic that's oracle.com strategic.
- [18:14]
Nuveen Announcer
Every business has an ambition. PayPal Open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, pay later and all major cards. So you can focus on scaling up when it's time to get growing. There's one platform for all business PayPal open grow today at paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations.
- [18:48]
Barry Ritholtz
I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm speaking this week with Jamie Margera, head of BlackRock's US wealth advisory business as well as retirement business. So let's talk a little bit about both of these. I want to start with the wealth management business. This is more than just iShares. This is very holistic and comprehensive. Tell us a little bit about the US wealth advisory business.
- [19:16]
Jamie Margera
So our business is really focused on helping those advisors who are really trying to go after multiple client segments and help those client segments actually meet their goals. And so, you know, we talked a little bit about next gen and kind of the Millennials and Gen Z. The other segment that is just growing in incredible rates is women. Women today control a third of the world's assets. In a few years, it'll be 50%. It'll be 70% by 20.
- [19:42]
Barry Ritholtz
50. 70%.
- [19:43]
Jamie Margera
70%. And you know, part of this is, let's talk about what's driving this. Women are creating wealth. Right. More women are having careers, are reaching executive levels or starting their own businesses. Women are also inheriting wealth. Right. From family or from parents. Women are also in, we call it the horizontal wealth transfer. Right. Divorce or widowed tent.
- [20:03]
Barry Ritholtz
Outlive the husband.
- [20:04]
Jamie Margera
Yes.
- [20:05]
Barry Ritholtz
So it's a way station before it goes to the kids.
- [20:07]
Jamie Margera
Absolutely. Absolutely. And women are, quite frankly, underserved in this market. Women were not seen as a significant growth segment in the past, and now people are starting to come around to. Wait a minute. This is a very important segment that we need to get right and Women do things differently. And so advisors need to help women do things differently and they need to serve them a little bit differently. And women like to have impact. We talk about the fact that some people invest as a means to an end. Women tend to invest as a means to what's next. Right. They want to impact their community, they want to impact their family. They're always thinking about what can I do with this money? As opposed to I want to make more money. And so that's, it's a nuance, but it's a difference that really requires a very personal relationship with a financial advisor. And trust.
- [20:56]
Barry Ritholtz
You know, it's been fascinating seeing what was previously a male dominated industry slowly awaken to the idea that hey, women have money and they're going to continue to accrue more money. Maybe we should be more open to coming up with a way to serve that demographic. It's like amazing. It's taken so many decades for the industry to adjust, but, but it's shockingly slow and sometimes stuck a little bit in the past.
- [21:26]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, it is. You know, the wake up call, I think for many is when a financial advisor has a client, maybe it's the man in the household and perhaps there's a divorce or the client passes away. Listen, 70% of women leave their financial advisor, leave their husband's financial advisor after a divorce or a death.
- [21:48]
Barry Ritholtz
So obvious with divorce, but with death it tells you what a terrible job that advisor did speaking to both of those. And you know, I've heard stories from advisors about people kind of aghast at somebody ignoring the spouse in the room. It's just totally wrong, wrong approach. How does BlackRock help their advisor clients address this issue?
- [22:14]
Jamie Margera
So we believe there is such an opportunity for advice here. Right? I mean, there's just this whole world of women who want advice. They want a coach, they want a partner. And so what we do is we work with financial advisors to help them better serve these clients. We do that through products. So for example, women want to be able to customize and personalize their investments to things that are important to them. So we'll talk about direct indexing, but direct indexing and what we're doing through appirio is a great way for an advisor to sell, serve his client and help her have impact with what she's doing. We also care deeply about educating advisors on this. And to your point, it's not that the industry just woke up, it's that nobody was really talking about it. And so now we're really invested in talking about this and helping and doing events and getting advisors to bring their prospects in and we'll join them. We are a minority investor in a company called Willow which focuses exactly on this. It builds practice management and education and actually helps connect female investors to advisors. And so we're really focused on this and it's just such an opportunity for advice, but also an opportunity for advisors to grow their business.
- [23:25]
Barry Ritholtz
So you mentioned Appirio. Let's talk a little bit about direct indexing. I'm a big fan of it. We happen to have started on a different product five, six years ago, so we've been pretty locked in on that. Why do you believe it's gaining so much popularity amongst both advisors and clients?
- [23:42]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, so direct indexing, it still sounds like a new phrase to many. It's been around for quite some time and previously it was really used for ultra, ultra high net worth families and direct indexing, an ability to create a portfolio, a custom index, if you will, of securities that you can choose and select what securities you want in that portfolio to align with how you want to invest. And you can also then manage taxes more effectively in there because you can tax loss harvest. And so it's a brilliant approach for not only aligning with your beliefs on how you invest, but also really living in an after tax world. We need to better look at tax Alpha in our investment portfolio.
- [24:23]
Barry Ritholtz
So I'm so glad you said that. When we first started working with o' Shaughnessy on their product, I was on the impression that it would first be like the most common use case would be hey, I don't want tobacco or guns or I don't want this, whatever. I know the New York Bishops Archdiocese investment pool uses it to say, hey, we don't want a board efficient in our portfolio or anything related to stuff that is in contradiction with our belief system. I thought that would be the biggest use. And then hey, I work for Apple so I don't need all this tech. You could tune down tech in my portfolio and then taxes would bring up the rear. I had it exactly backwards. In the past five, six years after tax returns. Tax Alpha seems to be the dominant usage for this. Concentrated portfolios, low basis cost, inherited stock, things like that really are a challenge to dealing with capital gains. Tell us about blackrock's experience with this.
- [25:27]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, so we agree completely. In fact, back in 2021 we acquired the firm Appirio. And Appirio was a pioneer in direct indexing. Appirio led the market working with ultra high net worth. They called it the new institutional for the purpose of tax management after tax returns. And you think about it, we live in an after tax world. I bought my coffee with after tax dollars. Yet we manage our investments before taxes. And so we saw this trend coming and we could have built it. It would have taken us probably a lot more time but we saw what Eperia was doing and their capabilities and just their approach, approach and we thought man, if we could match that with our distribution reach and our scale, we could really make some wonderful, wonderful solutions for our clients. And that's what we did. We acquired Appirio and we have a very significant direct indexing business. And to your point Barry, it is predominantly tax customization, tax management.
- [26:25]
Barry Ritholtz
Right. Any, especially when we see markets are at all time highs, people are sitting on enormous gains. Sometimes that becomes very concentrated, to say nothing of people who work for tech stocks and they've accumulated or other companies that have just accumulated so much value that hey, maybe I have too much single stock risk and I want to diversify into things. Tell us, what else does blackrock do with direct indexing? How do you differentiate yourself for Everybody these days seems to have a direct indexing product. What makes BlackRock special or unique?
- [27:01]
Jamie Margera
Yeah. So you know, one of the things that we did is when we acquired Appirio, we already had a very significant separately managed account business. I mean for, for decades we had fixed income and active equity. And what we did not have was that direct indexing capability. When we brought Appirio into blackrock, we then pulled it all together and said how can we actually make all of these capabilities together better serve our clients? So that means for example, tax loss harvesting on muni portfolios. Right. So being able to take a capability and not just do it on, on equities, but do it on fixed income. Last year we acquired a company called Spider Rock. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Spider structured notes.
- [27:39]
Barry Ritholtz
We've used them in the past. And option overlays similar, kind of not quite the same, but occasionally similar. A different solution to a similar problem.
- [27:48]
Jamie Margera
Yeah. And to your point on concentrated stock, what a great way to hedge that concentrated stock position. If I want to continue holding that stock but I want to hedge against it and manage the risk or I want to manage for tax implications, why not run an option overlay on top of that? And so the beauty of what we're doing now is we're bringing all of these discrete capabilities together into one portfolio, one holistic offering. And so you'll be able to, will Be able to work with advisors and say, let's look across your client's entire book and let us help you build a whole portfolio of public markets, private markets, direct indexing option overlay, all in one. Really solving for unique needs, customized preferences, really quite fascinating.
- [28:30]
Barry Ritholtz
So you mentioned you work with a lot of different wealth management firms. What does that relationship look like? What are these firms looking for from blackrock?
- [28:39]
Jamie Margera
So I remember when I first started in the wealth business years and years and years and years ago, you know, the relationship between asset managers and wealth management firms was often a kind of a vendor relationship relationship. Yes, right. It was. You have a product. Let's put it over here. Our position and our partnership with wealth management firms today is the only word I would say it's like true partnership. Right. It's aligned interests. We are there to not only provide them with investment capabilities, by the way, we have incredible breadth to do so, but we're also there to help them with their technology needs, their operational and scale needs, their advisory needs. How can we help them think through how they can grow organic growth? That's everyone's challenge. How do I grow organically? Well, you have to scale your business and increase your margins to do so. We help them think through all of that. And the other thing that we do is we have incredible people that are so expert in working with these firms and advisors every single day to help them achieve their goals. And our view is if we can help our clients, the wealth management firms and their advisors grow, we'll naturally grow with them. Right. So our job is to help them grow.
- [29:49]
Barry Ritholtz
So let's talk retirement. We're recording this post Labor Day. But by the time this comes out, blackrock's big report, the read on retirement will be out. Tell us some of the big takeaways for this.
- [30:04]
Jamie Margera
So it's really special for me personally because I've just now returned into the retirement business and have the responsibility for this retirement business. And I say it's a responsibility and an honor because we think about the 35 million people across America that we are helping to save for retirement. Like that is. That is what we do. Over half of the assets at BlackRock, not many people know this. Over half of the assets at BlackRock are helping people save for retirement in some way.
- [30:32]
Barry Ritholtz
Really? So when you say that it's 401ks, 403s, IRAs, any pensions, DB. Wow.
- [30:38]
Jamie Margera
Yes.
- [30:39]
Barry Ritholtz
That's amazing.
- [30:40]
Jamie Margera
Over 50%.
- [30:41]
Barry Ritholtz
I would not have guessed that.
- [30:42]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, not many people know that. And so you know, it's Something that we, we are so proud of. And really for me, it was always my North Star. I remember when I was first in the retirement business at BlackRock, I was able to go home and tell my parents what I did and explain it to them in a way that I felt so good about and they understood and that's what we get to do every day. You mentioned the survey. So it's our 10 year anniversary of doing this survey.
- [31:06]
Barry Ritholtz
Wow.
- [31:06]
Jamie Margera
We've been doing it for a decade now. And every time we go out, we go to plan sponsors who are the employers building the plans and offering them to their employees. We go to the savers who are the employees at massive corporations. And then we also talk to retirees, people that have saved and had access to a 401k plan, but they're now no longer working and they're in retirement. And so this year I'll break it down in this way. Savers, those that are still working, the employers of these or the employees of this company, savers have the highest confidence we've ever seen, like off the charts confidence. Now it's come down a little bit because of market volatility. And I think what that calls out is of course we're all more confident when markets are rising, but very strong confidence in their ability to retire. However, we've seen savings come down. And so the question is, is that because of confidence?
- [31:56]
Barry Ritholtz
When you say savings, we mean savings rates. Right?
- [31:59]
Jamie Margera
Savings rates have come down. Thank you. And so the question is, is that because of confidence or is that because actually people are spending money, more money they need to, maybe inflation maybe. Right. So like we have to dig into that a little bit more. But importantly, savers are seeing more confidence or feeling more confident. You then ask the people in charge, the experts who are building those plans, confidence is very low, in fact lower than we've seen. And I'll come back to that in a moment. But I think there's a really interesting tension there of perhaps overconfidence in savers and reality in those building the plans. And then when we move on to retirees, very low confidence once they've retired and their ability to actually figure out how to sustain their life in retirement. And so some of the actions or some of the insights that really came out of this one, savers are looking for access to professionally managed solutions. Think target date funds. Right. Life path portfolios. BlackRock invented the Target Date Fund 30 years ago. But target date funds are very, very important. Two is savers are looking for some type of clarity or solution around guaranteed income. Give me something that will just tell me what I'm going to be able to spend every month and better yet, make that guaranteed so I know I have it every month.
- [33:12]
Barry Ritholtz
So what does that look like? Are we talking an annuity product or something else?
- [33:15]
Jamie Margera
So imagine a target Date fund with a guaranteed income sleeve in that. So we have a product called Life Path Paycheck. Life Path Paycheck is among a few other solutions in the marketplace. But LifePath Paycheck is the fastest growing guaranteed income solution. What's amazing about this solution though, is that it gives employers and employees the choice to turn on that guaranteed income. So you're investing, investing, investing. And then you come to a point and you decide, do I want that guaranteed income?
- [33:43]
Barry Ritholtz
Flip the switch, flip the switch. Huh?
- [33:44]
Jamie Margera
Really, really interesting. And then the third point is people, both employers and employees, are saying we need to close the gap on this savings shortfall and we need to find more returns and more protection. And so that's really where you start to point to private markets.
- [34:00]
Barry Ritholtz
So the, I think of the traditional retirement savings as classic 60, 40. And what I've been reading about and hearing about for the past 10 plus years is, hey, 6040 isn't going to get it done in the future, especially with yields as low as they've been up until 2022 anyway. How do you see this side of the business changing? Is it no longer 60 40, is it 60, 30, 10 or what does this look like?
- [34:26]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, so it's, you know, the one thing that's different about the retirement space is it's versus the wealth space is retirement is quite slow moving, the market itself is quite slow moving. And so if you actually look back 20 years, I would say there's probably less change over 20 years than we'll expect to see over the next 10. Meaning people are getting very focused, policymakers, employers, asset managers, record keepers on how do we close the gap between this retirement savings shortfall. And so to your question, the 6040 worked. It works. But actually if you were to have a 50, 30, 20, but strategically and thoughtfully make sure that that glide path, that target date fund that also incorporates private markets, is doing so in a way that helps people get more diversification, gain alpha, possibly gain more income. We've done studies that show you can get 15% more return on a portfolio with private markets, a target date fund with private markets over a 40 year retirement. And so that's something to talk about.
- [35:27]
Barry Ritholtz
Not, not nothing that's pretty substantial. Coming up, we continue our conversation with Jamie Margera, head of BlackRock's US wealth advisory business as well as head of BlackRock's retirement business, discussing the rise of alternatives in the Investment Space at BlackRock Talk. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.
- [35:54]
Nuveen Announcer
Every business has an ambition. PayPal open is the platform designed to help you grow into yours with business loans so you can expand and access to hundreds of millions of PayPal customers worldwide. And your customers can pay all the ways they want with PayPal, Venmo, PayPal later and all major cards so you can focus on scaling up when it's time to get growing. There's one platform for all business PayPal open grow today at paypalopen.com loans subject to approval in available locations Time for a sofa upgrade?
- [36:26]
Washable Sofas Announcer
Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices with sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [37:25]
Barry Ritholtz
Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons to why you should 1. It's $15 a month.
- [37:34]
Jamie Margera
2.
- [37:35]
Barry Ritholtz
Seriously, it's $15 a month.
- [37:37]
Jamie Margera
3.
- [37:38]
Barry Ritholtz
No big contracts.
- [37:39]
Jamie Margera
4.
- [37:39]
Barry Ritholtz
I use it. 5. My mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per.
- [37:49]
Jamie Margera
Three month plan $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.
- [37:58]
Barry Ritholtz
I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Mic Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My guest this week is Jamie Maggiera. She is the head of BlackRock's US wealth advisory business as well as the head of their retirement business. The firm manages over $12 trillion. So let's talk about alternatives. This has been one of the fastest growing space in investing. Tell us what BlackRock is doing. I think a BlackRock of iShares and biggest manager of public equities and bonds in the world. What is BlackRock doing with alternatives?
- [38:38]
Jamie Margera
So if you think about the capital markets, public is only one piece of those capital markets. And for so long private markets, the other part of capital markets have been utilized for institutions or even the ultra, ultra, ultra high net worth. And so there is a world to believe strongly an investment thesis that if you're going to do the best thing for a portfolio or an investment, you need full exposure to public and to private markets. And so BlackRock is doing a lot to help advisors and their clients have easier access to private markets. So you may recall last year we had a whirlwind news announcements around hps, gip, prequin, three acquisitions all related to private markets. Prequin related to data, GIP infrastructure, HPS credit and private financing. And so we acquired these firms so that we could offer to our clients not just the full power of the capital markets through public, but now also through private. And so we are very focused on really democratizing access, helping everyday people when appropriate gain access to this very important part of the capital markets.
- [39:54]
Barry Ritholtz
And I mentioned earlier, 60, 40, you peel 10% off the 60 and 10% off the 40 and you end up with something that looks like 50, 30, 20. Is that the future of this? Because typically we see a lot of privates, they tend to be locked up for a long period of time. They tend to be complex to administer custodians and reporting and fees. It's like you buy an iShare, it's easy, you want to get involved on the private side. It just seems so much more complex for anyone less than, I don't know, pick a number. 20 million. 10 million. 5 million. So what does the future of alternative investment look like at blackrock?
- [40:34]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, so you, you hit on it, right? I mean it was so hard for people to gain access to, was complicated if they were able to get access to it. And to your point, liquidity was not necessarily a top priority for various reasons. When you think about where the market is going now, there's just been so much change over the wealth industry on how the wealth industry as a whole is starting to modernize access to private markets. And so one thing we are doing at blackrock is we focused very much on technology partnerships that allow and relieve the advisor of all of that operational complexity. So you think about a firm like iCapital.
- [41:14]
Barry Ritholtz
ICapital of which you are on the board of.
- [41:16]
Jamie Margera
Correct, I am on the board. And you know, iCapital has done so much to actually pave the way for advisors ability, wealth management firms, ability to access private markets. But they are a technology platform. You still need the products. And to your point on drawdown and liquidity, we've done so much work to build solutions that actually are semi liquid and that provide that liquidity on a regular basis for advisors and their clients. And so that's something that has, you know, really held advisors back in the past. I think the last point, Barry, is it's still new to so many and there's a lot of education that's needed.
- [41:52]
Barry Ritholtz
Sure.
- [41:52]
Jamie Margera
And you know, it's education on the asset class. And what does this really mean? And how do I actually strip the 10% here and the 10% there? And so we've gone a step further to say how do we make it even easier for advisors to build portfolios? Not that I have my private markets over here and my public markets over there and another account, but instead how do I build a portfolio that's one account and it holds public and private together in one portfolio? That's professionally managed asset allocation. All of the due diligence has been done. And so recently we've engaged in partnerships with firms like Geo Health and I Capital to be able to bring models to market, strategic asset allocated models that are professionally managed, that incorporate private markets alongside of public markets.
- [42:37]
Barry Ritholtz
So the pushback, I hear from various people about alternatives. They're expensive, they're liquid. You have these long lockups. Doing due diligence is complex and expensive. All of the back office aspects seem to be like a series of one offs. There's no real scalability. How are you addressing these issues?
- [42:59]
Jamie Margera
We have found a way to scale and make it more convenient. So all of that work that you just talked about, the due diligence, the operations, the complexity, we have taken that on. We have built model portfolios that do all of that for the advisor. The advisor just has to offer that to their client.
- [43:17]
Barry Ritholtz
Is this in an SMA or is this. How does this. So my firm, we're BlackRock, Vanguard, a handful of other. The bulk of our portfolios, either direct indexing or mutual funds or ETFs, looks like that some, some clients say what do you guys offer in terms of alternatives? And we have to click Off a run of stuff. And what I've noticed is once you start working into the here's the cost and here's the lockup and here's what the reporting looks like and it's held at a custodian here, the complexity tends to be like is this really worth it? Well, theoretically it provides diversification and historically there have been some cases of outperformance. All that comes off the advisor's plate and you guys handle all of it.
- [44:04]
Jamie Margera
So if an advisor wanted to build a portfolio for you, you're the client. The Advisor could call BlackRock, could say I want to build a custom portfolio. I want it to have this component of public markets. Maybe it's iShares ETFs, maybe it's direct indexing, a PEO. I would like it to have this component of private markets. Perhaps it's BlackRock credit, BlackRock equity on the private side. We will customize that for them and then it's waiting for them on a platform like GeoWealth which is a, you know, geo wealth. Well, a technology platform that will automatically rebalance it for them. And that advisor can now then invest their clients in that portfolio.
- [44:39]
Barry Ritholtz
How about if a firm comes up to you and says hey, we're pretty good on the stocks and bonds side, we really need help on the alt side and we have such embedded long term gains that it's painful to peel too much off. But going forward we want to build this into what we offer and add this to existing clients. What does that solution look like?
- [45:01]
Jamie Margera
Call BlackRock. We have a team of. You asked about CFAs earlier. We have a team of CFAs, portfolio consultants, tax economists who do nothing but work with advisors every day on solving those problems. They will work, they will consult, they will help them take the portfolio they have. We want to meet the advisors where they are, right? So we want to help them build on what they have and we will work with them to take that portfolio and transition it into whatever the destination is they're going for. We'll work with them in a way to do it tax efficiently and at the appropriate cadence for their client.
- [45:35]
Barry Ritholtz
And you guys very successfully took crypto and bitcoin and put it into an etf. Are we ever going to get to a point where alts become an ETF product?
- [45:45]
Jamie Margera
Look, I think there is a world where so much can happen right in the next five years I think we're going to see a lot of things around private markets. Part of that is solving for data and having the transparency around the Private markets. What is an etf? Right. It's transparency into that index. Part of our thought process in acquiring Prekin was being able to offer data transparency around private markets markets. But I also think that sometimes people naturally go to ETF as kind of shorthand for liquidity, convenient and low cost. And I think there's a lot of ways that we have to figure out as an industry and BlackRock's working on this right now. How do you structure and build vehicles that allow for liquidity, allow for lower cost and allow for easier access, less complexity around private markets? Maybe it's an etf, maybe it's something else.
- [46:35]
Barry Ritholtz
Yeah, liquidity is always the challenge. When you have an investment product that by design is supposed to play out over five, seven, eight years, they're not public for a reason. They need the breath for whatever that market cycle is to realize those gains. So I get the challenge. What are you doing to educate advisors and clients about what this process looks like?
- [46:57]
Jamie Margera
I'm glad you asked that because I keep coming back to Liquidity is a challenge when it does not match an expectation of a client. And so advisors need to fully understand what they're working with when they delve into private markets. And in some cases it is a five to seven year lockup if they're doing drawdowns. In some cases you do have a liquidity interval every quarter. And so we are working with advisors all across the industry to help educate them on the new type of, of private markets, the new vehicles, the semi liquid structures, but then more so we're working with them to help them understand. How do you actually put that in a whole portfolio? Talk to me about how private markets sits alongside of public markets and what that does for the risk profile, for the return profile and for the liquidity profile.
- [47:48]
Barry Ritholtz
And BlackRock launched a model, I want to say, earlier this year that uses both private and public assets under one ticker. That sounds like really challenging to put together. Tell us a little bit about that.
- [48:01]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, it was challenging, very challenging. And it was something that we could not do alone for all of the reasons you mentioned. It took operations and technology platforms like iCapital. It took operations and rebalancing and trade platforms like Geo well to be able to allow us to deliver this portfolio. So this was something that we announced earlier this year alongside of GeoHealth and iCapital and it was the first of its kind in the industry. A model portfolio that in one model, in one account you can have public and private automatic rebalancing customized for your Client done so easily. So conveniently.
- [48:42]
Barry Ritholtz
Some of what you're describing sounds a little bit like ocios. That kind of were the rage a few years ago. Outsource CIOs where a professional manager can bring a higher level of professional wealth management to a smaller shop. Tell us, is this similar to that or what are the parallels?
- [49:02]
Jamie Margera
Yeah, it's, it's a, it is one of the most accelerated trend we are seeing in the wealth market right now which is this whole notion of outsourcing and, and whether an advisor is doing it because they want to professionalize what they're offering to their client or whether an advisor is choosing to outsource because they want to save time and their value is being with the client and talking about the holistic wealth plan, not the investment management component of it. And so they turn to blackrock to be the outsourced provider. And so we have a models business which is effectively an OCIO business. A models business for the wealth channel is 350 billion today. It's grown rapidly over the past few years. We think that'll double in the next few years. And it's because advisors are turning to us to say please let us outsource to you. And it's not just advisors. Wealth managers are doing the same because again wealth managers are going to focus on their core value which is serving their clients, helping their clients build financial plans and helping them navigate their wealth picture holistically. They turn to blackrock to help them scale their investment management. And that's where our outsourcing capabilities come in.
- [50:10]
Barry Ritholtz
So we've talked about wealth management, we talked about iShares and as well as alpha pursuit and retirement planning. My last question for you is what do you think advisors, clients, investors are not thinking about but perhaps should be what important topics. It could be an asset, it could be a geography, it could be a policy or data point. What do you think's getting overlooked but just shouldn't.
- [50:36]
Jamie Margera
I think taxes is still not being discussed enough. Taxes as a concept, I mean there is so much value you can bring as an advisor to your client by just having that conversation asking the question. So I would encourage everyone to do that. That is such a way to build loyalty, trust and deepen relationship and by the way your client starts to tell you where they have assets elsewhere. The other area I would say is just really thinking about the future growth drivers of of our economy. So infrastructure. I we didn't talk about AI but the going to be another, another thing. It might turn into something going to.
- [51:10]
Barry Ritholtz
Be big one day. Exactly.
- [51:11]
Jamie Margera
But, you know, you think about some of these future growth drivers, infrastructure as part of, you know, why we acquired GIP. But we have iShare solutions that really align with infrastructure as well. And I just think that's such an under discussed opportunity.
- [51:26]
Barry Ritholtz
Really interesting. All right, I only have you for a few more minutes, so let's jump to our favorite questions that we ask all our guests, starting with tell us about your mentors who helped shape your career.
- [51:37]
Jamie Margera
Oh, so this is such a good question and hard question. I will answer it this way. There are so many. I love to have a board of directors approach. Like, I have this whole crew of people that I go to for different things and I truly like. You know, you mentioned Salim Ramsey. He's one of them. Martin Small, Rob Goldstein, Rob Capito, Mark Weidman. Like, there's so many. Ann Ackerley who used to run the retirement business at BlackRock. And they've all played a different role in my career and in my life.
- [52:05]
Barry Ritholtz
Really, really interesting. Let's talk books. What are some of your favorites? What are you reading right now?
- [52:11]
Jamie Margera
Llama Llama, Red pajama to your kids at night.
- [52:15]
Barry Ritholtz
Is that what that is?
- [52:17]
Jamie Margera
He loves Llama Llama. So any Llama llama you can imagine. But actually I just finished a great book for the second time. A more beautiful question. Warren Berger. It talks about the art of inquiry and using inquiry to, I mean, gosh, the heart of any innovation. Why does the world not have this? What if the world did have this? How do we get the world to have this? And so it really talks about the art of inquiry as a way to better understand, to fuel curiosity and to innovate and create better solutions.
- [52:50]
Barry Ritholtz
I love that name. I'm going to have to check that out. Let's talk streaming. What are you watching or listening to these days? Netflix, Amazon, podcasts. Tell us what's keeping you entertained.
- [53:00]
Jamie Margera
So I have this. This barbell approach. I go, I love reality tv. Oh, really? Below Deck. Do you watch Below Deck?
- [53:07]
Barry Ritholtz
No, but I know plenty of people who do.
- [53:09]
Jamie Margera
So good. But that's kind of one side of it. The other side of it is I like intensity. So, like, mayor of Kingstowne, I'm watching Terminal List, Dark Wolf right now. I think that's on Amazon. It is very good. Basically, Chris Pratt. Yes. Navy SEAL turned CIA operative.
- [53:28]
Barry Ritholtz
Very interesting. Right. We just finished Killing Eve.
- [53:33]
Jamie Margera
Oh, I haven't started yet.
- [53:35]
Barry Ritholtz
My wife watched it, loved it, and said, you have to watch this. And she re watched it with me. If you like that sort of high intensity espionage, really great cast, really strong recommend. So our final two questions. What sort of advice would you give to a recent college grad interested in a career in retirement services, wealth management, investing? How would you advise them?
- [54:01]
Jamie Margera
So I go back to my way, my entry into this industry. I didn't know the first thing about anything. I didn't think I wanted to be in this industry. I. But I went in with open eyes and I asked a lot of questions. And in some ways it was like, because I didn't have the experience, it made it easier for me to be just like an everyday person that we were trying to serve. And so I say, come into this industry. You don't need a traditional background. In fact, I prefer people not to have a traditional background of finance or econ. Come into this industry and help us make it better. Huh?
- [54:30]
Barry Ritholtz
Love that. And our final question. What do you know about the world of wealth management, retirement services? Investing today would have been useful 25 years or so ago when you were first getting started.
- [54:43]
Jamie Margera
I was really fortunate to have my father tell me that the first thing I needed to do when I got a job was start saving in an IRA and in my 401k. And even when it hurt to do, I did it. I wish I had known back then that I could have been saving in many different ways. I could have been investing in many different ways. And so, you know, to anyone who's out there thinking about are they saving enough or investing enough, the answer is probably no. And you should do more. And there's so many ways to do it. You can use a financial advisor, you can go direct, you can do it in many different ways, but just do it. Just start. That's something I would have done.
- [55:17]
Barry Ritholtz
Huh? Really, really good advice. Thank you, Jamie, for being so generous with your time. We have been speaking with Jamie Magera. She's head of Black Rock's U.S. wealth Advisory Service as well as head of BlackRock's retirement business. If you enjoy this conversation, well, be sure and check out any of the previous 550 we've done over the past 11 years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Bloomberg, wherever you find your favorite podcast. And be sure and check out my new book, how not to Invest. The ideas, numbers and behavior that destroys wealth and how to avoid them. How not to Invest at your favorite bookstore. I would be remiss if I did not thank the crack team that helps put these conversations together. Meredith Frank is my audio engineer. My producers are Anna, Luke and Alexis Noriega Sage Bauman is the head of Podcasts at Bloomberg. Sean Russo is my research future. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.
- [56:33]
Washable Sofas Announcer
Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out where designer quality.
- [56:46]
Jamie Margera
Meets budget friendly prices.
- [56:48]
Washable Sofas Announcer
That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return, shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [57:33]
Express Employment Announcer
Fox 1 is now live. It's the new way to stream all your Fox favorites all in one place. That means NFL Sundays and college football games. Break breaking news with the Fox voices you trust and your favorite show streamed as they happen so nothing gets spoiled. With Fox one you get it all live edge of your seat plays, jaw dropping moments and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Start your 7 day trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox One for complete terms and conditions. Fox One we live for life streaming now.
- [58:04]
Jamie Margera
Ugh.
- [58:04]
Barry Ritholtz
Come on.
- [58:05]
Jamie Margera
Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
- [58:08]
Nuveen Announcer
Still using yesterday's tech Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 car Ultra Light Ultra powerful and built for serious productivity with Intel Core Ultra processors, blazing speed and AI powered performance. It keeps up with your business, not the other way around.
- [58:22]
Jamie Margera
Whoa, this thing moves.
- [58:24]
Nuveen Announcer
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search@lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity.
- [58:38]
Express Employment Announcer
All on one device.