Masters in Business: An Evening with Michael Lewis, From "Liar’s Poker" to Today

Released on May 14, 2025

Introduction

In this bonus episode of Masters in Business, hosted by Bloomberg's Barry Ritholtz, renowned author Michael Lewis delves into his latest work, "Who Is Government?", while reflecting on his illustrious career spanning iconic books like "Liar’s Poker," "Moneyball," and his insights into the financial and governmental sectors. The conversation offers a deep dive into Lewis's storytelling prowess, his unique approach to uncovering hidden narratives, and his perspectives on government functionality.

Michael Lewis and "Who Is Government?"

Barry Ritholtz [01:22]: “...Michael Lewis on his new book Who Is Government and his Career as a Writer. Welcome, welcome Michael, it's a pleasure.”

Lewis begins by addressing the collaborative nature of his new book, revealing that he co-authored it with six other writers, which is a departure from his solo endeavors. He expresses ambivalence towards book tours, describing them as a "slog" and contrasting the solitary act of writing with the performative aspect of public appearances.

Michael Lewis [03:32]: “I have six other writers that I hired to do this with me. So this is a way of answering your question.”

Connecting Past Works to the Present

The conversation transitions to how Lewis's previous books, particularly "Premonition" and "The Fifth Risk," laid the groundwork for "Who Is Government?" He clarifies the sequence of his publications and emphasizes how his exploration of overlooked government departments unveiled compelling stories and characters.

Michael Lewis [09:17]: “It really is special... it's all literary opportunism.”

Lewis shares anecdotes about his research process, highlighting encounters with unsung heroes like Arthur A. Allen, a Coast Guard oceanographer whose work has saved countless lives. These stories underscore the vital yet often unrecognized roles within government operations.

Uncovering Hidden Narratives

One of the standout segments discusses Arthur A. Allen's groundbreaking work on understanding object drift at sea, which revolutionized search and rescue operations. Lewis illustrates how Allen's contributions have had profound real-world impacts, yet he remains largely unnoticed by the public.

Michael Lewis [10:11]: “Arthur A. Allen... He's been honored by other countries, Taiwan and Australia, but we don't even pay attention.”

This exploration reflects Lewis's knack for spotlighting extraordinary individuals in mundane settings, revealing the depth and complexity of governmental functions.

The Writing Process: Stories That Find Him

When delving into his writing methodology, Lewis describes a serendipitous relationship with his subjects. He emphasizes that stories often "wander into [his] life and get to the point where they can't not be written."

Michael Lewis [35:09]: “I have all these stories that you've just started talking about on the phone. He gets outraged...”

Lewis attributes his success to a blend of curiosity and what he whimsically calls "deep laziness," whereby his initial disinterest turns into an obsession worthy of his undivided attention.

Revisiting "Liar’s Poker" and Early Works

Reflecting on his debut book, "Liar’s Poker," Lewis recounts the challenges and growth he experienced as a young writer. He candidly critiques his earlier work, noting moments of embarrassment and the rawness of his initial foray into authorship.

Michael Lewis [45:04]: “I was 26 when I wrote that and I'd never written anything... It was so embarrassing.”

Despite his initial discomfort, Lewis acknowledges that "Liar’s Poker" was instrumental in launching his career, laying the foundation for his future explorations into finance and beyond.

From Book to Screen: "Moneyball"

Lewis shares his experiences with the adaptation of "Moneyball" into a major film. He humorously narrates interactions with Billy Beane, the Oakland A’s general manager, and discusses the film's production quirks, including a memorable on-set incident involving two characters named Billy Bean.

Michael Lewis [58:52]: “Billy’s like, ‘You're a genius...’ He’s like, ‘Will you just please sign my book?’”

The story underscores the sometimes tumultuous relationship between authors and filmmakers, yet highlights the lasting friendships and unexpected moments that emerge from such collaborations.

Political Insights: Relationship with John McCain

A poignant segment covers Lewis's interaction with Senator John McCain during the 1996 presidential campaign. Lewis recounts writing a transformative piece about McCain’s genuine character and the deep bond that formed between them, illustrating how a single journalistic endeavor can significantly influence political narratives.

Michael Lewis [72:15]: “He was a little disgraced overnight. Everybody wanted to write the same story. And he got his relationship to the rest of the world, to the media in Washington, just changed.”

This story exemplifies Lewis's ability to uncover and portray authentic human elements within the political sphere, offering readers a nuanced perspective beyond conventional political reporting.

Government Functionality and Public Perception

In discussing "The Fifth Risk" and "Who Is Government?", Lewis highlights the often-misunderstood roles of government departments like Commerce. He critiques the public's limited understanding of these entities and underscores the essential services they provide, such as accurate weather forecasting, which are taken for granted but have profound societal impacts.

Michael Lewis [80:01]: “80% of the budget is the National Oceanographic Administration, and 75% of that budget is the weather service.”

Lewis warns against the privatization of such critical functions, advocating for the preservation of impartial and universally accessible government services.

Closing Remarks

As the conversation wraps up, Lewis touches upon various unfinished projects and stories that tantalize his future writing endeavors. He reflects on missed opportunities, such as an in-depth book on George Soros, and muses about potential future works that continue to explore the intersections of finance, government, and human stories.

Michael Lewis [67:00]: “I have those kind of things I don't have. And I have... no go.”

Despite numerous untapped narratives, Lewis remains committed to his craft, driven by an enduring curiosity and a dedication to illuminating the hidden facets of our societal structures.

Conclusion

Barry Ritholtz's engaging interview with Michael Lewis provides listeners with an intimate look into the mind of one of modern journalism's most insightful storytellers. Through anecdotes, reflections, and thoughtful commentary, Lewis illustrates how his work transcends traditional genres, offering profound insights into the interplay between finance, government, and human ingenuity. For those unfamiliar with his work, this episode serves as a compelling introduction to the stories that shape our understanding of complex systems and the individuals who navigate them.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Lewis [03:32]: “I have six other writers that I hired to do this with me. So this is a way of answering your question.”

• Michael Lewis [10:11]: “Arthur A. Allen... He's been honored by other countries, Taiwan and Australia, but we don't even pay attention.”

• Michael Lewis [35:09]: “I have all these stories that you've just started talking about on the phone. He gets outraged...”

• Michael Lewis [80:01]: “80% of the budget is the National Oceanographic Administration, and 75% of that budget is the weather service.”

• Michael Lewis [72:15]: “He was a little disgraced overnight. Everybody wanted to write the same story. And he got his relationship to the rest of the world, to the media in Washington, just changed.”

These quotes encapsulate key moments of insight and reflection throughout the podcast, highlighting Lewis's analytical approach to both his writing and his subjects.