Masters in Business: Risk and Reward with Maric Capital Co-Founder Matt Sherwin

Host: Barry Ritholtz, Bloomberg
Guest: Matt Sherwin, Co-Founder & CIO, Maric Capital
Date: March 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of risk, credit markets, and the evolving structure of the financial industry with Matt Sherwin, co-founder and Chief Investment Officer at Maric Capital. Sherwin draws on decades of experience at JPMorgan and Citigroup, offering reflection on past crises, the current alternative credit opportunity set, regulatory shifts, and how Maric applies a distinctive lens to drive returns and manage risk in an increasingly specialized financial ecosystem.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Career & Lessons in Risk

• Finding Finance:
  Sherwin didn’t initially love economics in college, finding it too abstract. He came alive in finance classes, captivated by the practicality of calculations, discounted cash flows, and direct market application.

  “I just like when there's numbers on the page, it adds up to something. You're trying to make money, it's hopefully positive at the end it might be negative. It's pretty clear cut, at least the goal is.” (03:19)

• Transformational “Engine Room” Experience:
  His move in late 2019 to JPMorgan's CIO/treasurer role, coinciding with the start of the repo crisis, was a career inflection point. It granted a view into system-level risk and the stark mechanics of financial plumbing—analogous to leaving the ship’s bridge for the engine room.

  “I went from being the captain of the ship to going to work in the engine room and seeing the actual gearing and how it works and how it doesn't and what could stop it from working…20 odd years into my career, that's how I felt at that moment.” (06:25)

• Lessons from Crises:
  Comparing 2008-09 and 2019, Sherwin describes the overwhelming, all-consuming work of the financial crisis—asset-backed securities, subprime, CDOs, “tip of the spear in a bad way.” He learned to “think bigger, think broader, think worse,” and to understand not only the risk in specific products but also their interconnectedness within the broader financial system.

  “All of that helped me understand how does my product I'm trading fit into an investment bank. How does an investment bank impact the system?” (09:34)

The Maric “MCCLR” Lens on Markets

• Money, Capital, Credit, Liquidity, Regulation (MCCLR):
  Sherwin and Maric dissect every opportunity through these five guiding factors.

  “I think about it in terms of money, capital, credit, liquidity and regulation. That's my five: money, capital, credit, liquidity, regulation, MCCLR.” (14:00)

  • Money – How is it created/destroyed and how does it move?
  • Capital – How is it measured and how much do you have?
  • Credit – How is it extended and through whom?
  • Liquidity – What are the flows and sources?
  • Regulation – Which rules matter and how do regulatory changes affect opportunity?

• Fragmenting Financial System:
  Sherwin sees a de facto return of Glass-Steagall in function, if not in law, with “G-SIBs” (JPM, BoA, etc.), large private lenders (Apollo, Blackstone, KKR), and nonbanks each carving out specialized risk silos.

  “…it's disaggregating the financial system and putting it into different buckets...Who wins, who loses, what are the flywheels here.” (15:25)

• Opportunity from Overreaction:
  Maric identifies opportunity where markets misapprehend regulatory changes or overreact to rules that matter less than people assume (i.e., SLR rule removal).

  “…the market moves to place on some that simply don't matter, like its lack of understanding of what SLR was…everything the market's doing in reaction to that is a potential opportunity for us.” (19:57)

Assessment of Current Market Opportunity (2026)

• Business-Forward Policy, Deregulation, and Flawed Narratives:
  Sherwin characterizes the current U.S. administration as “in the business of being in business” with an urgent need for lower rates due to debt loads and a willingness to roll back regulatory layers.

  “They need rates to get down... because of how much debt the country has...they're going to do everything they can to it.” (22:41)

• On Bond Vigilantes and Market Discipline:
  Citing the fading power of bond market discipline, Sherwin notes markets are now so hyper-specialized that episodes like sudden rallies or sell-offs are driven by narrow mandates and institutional footprints, not broad market panic.

  “The markets are so big now that it's been broken into specific functions. Like people have a thing to do and they do that in a narrow mandate.” (25:48)

• Link Between Credit Spreads and Risk-Free Rate:
  Sherwin highlights the merging of credit and rates risk, especially evident during periods of government shutdown; when information goes dark, volatility fades, but so does liquidity.

Why Launch Maric Capital?

• Flexible Mandate vs. Institutional Constraints:
  Large banks often can’t or won’t act beyond narrow risk parameters. Maric aims to take advantage of wide opportunity sets using a flexible, multi-asset, multi-strategy approach centered on credit and specialty finance.

  “We see a very large addressable opportunity where we have a unique perspective, a defined lens and a way of applying that to these big liquid markets that we think very strongly we can take advantage of...” (30:09)

• Team Structure and Culture:
  All trades expressed in a collaborative, “one book” approach, leveraging buy- and sell-side experience in rates, mortgages, ABS, CLOs, and credit.

  “It's our name, it's our reputation, because...that was something we really wanted. I took some time off...but I was getting to the point where I was like, okay, I feel great. I want to do this. I miss markets. I love this.” (34:38)

Use of AI and Novel Technology

• Tool Building and Efficiency:
  AI is used to prototype and build portfolio tools rapidly versus legacy approval bottlenecks.

  “We use it every day. We build stuff more quickly. We build our own tools...at their desk in a week that would have taken a year to do somewhere else, literally.” (37:39)

• Hyperfocus on AI-Driven Market Segments:
  The “AI Capex boom” is viewed as a source of commercial real estate risk, revealed through non-traditional (corporate bond) wrappers—appealing for their mispricing and structural complexity.

  “...AI Capex boom to us is actually like a source of very cheap risk for us to look at.” (39:07)

• Novel Opportunities and Risks:
  Maric looks for overlooked or misunderstood pricing, such as first-time issuers and “North Star” companies aligned with bondholder interests.

Navigating Policy-Driven Volatility

• Trump’s GSE Directive as Case Study:
  The aftermath of the hypothetical $200B GSE mortgage-buying tweet exemplifies how even massive policy announcements can be drop-in-the-bucket events in enormous markets. It highlights the need to model not only direct effects but the chain of market reactions.

  “As silly as it sounds, like 200 billion, it's just not enough pocket cash...in a $12 trillion market, 12 trillion, it's not even 1%.” (43:43)

• Trading Tactics:
  Be Positioned for Policy Event Risk:
  Maric strives to be positioned ahead of policy shocks—benefiting from rallies or covering shorts as appropriate, always analyzing both “price today” and implications for future policy moves.

Portfolio Construction, Risk, and Flywheels

• Dynamic Allocation & Dual Mandate:
  The fund maintains long and short exposures across mortgages and credit, aiming both to express core theses and to hedge or exploit convexity.

  “We have long stuff and shorts across the book...” (45:54)

• Leveraging Market “Flywheels”:
  Focus on feedback loops where, for instance, lower rates plus tighter spreads enable refinancing, which in turn raises asset values and allows yet more borrowing at even tighter spreads.

  “...the market completely underestimates the power of those flywheels and what it can be achieved.” (46:52)

• Stress Scenarios & Risk Management:
  Risk is modeled using a variety of stresses (rate shocks, credit crunches, QE forever...), and the process is designed to identify attribution/exit points rather than rely on static calculation.

  “I believe managing risk at scale is a skill...I like to look at the world in a stress based framework...it's a starting place for a conversation...” (49:26)

  • Notable mantra: “You don't go out of business because your assets. You go out of business because of your liabilities.” (54:33)

Thematic and Tactical Opportunities

• Trophy Office Real Estate in Gateway Cities:
  Despite doom and gloom around commercial real estate, Sherwin believes high-end ("trophy") offices, especially in finance-driven cities, are mispriced. Strong demand from growing firms focused on in-person business supports these assets.

  “We really thought…one of the places to extract from the fund flywheel is in securitized markets… trophy quality office in gateway cities…” (51:04)

• Dynamic Supply (Conversions):
  Ongoing conversion of offices to residential or data centers further supports pricing for remaining A+ stock, with pockets of opportunity even in consensus-bearish markets.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Learning and Adaptation:

  “It took me a little while to realize what I was interested in, what I was interested in being interested in.” (03:25)

• On JP Morgan, Pre-2008 Risk Attitude:

  “[Jamie] just said, clear all this junk off of our balance sheet. We don't. We can't handle this risk. Doesn't seem to be worth the potential upside.” (12:50)

• On Naming Maric Capital:

  “Marec is Matt and Derek. Because we spent way too much time trying to think of what's a clever name. Derek's wife one day was like, enough, it's Marek, Matt and Derek, now go do some real work.” (33:40)

• On Market Specialization:

  “The markets are hyper specialized in very, very large markets.” (25:48)

• On What Investors Overlook:

  “I think they're underestimating the things that could go right or what the power of financing and the mechanics around financing...can really do to both recover value and create value…” (56:03)

Important Timestamps

• 02:04 – Sherwin’s early education; pivot from econ to finance
• 07:07 – Career-defining transition to JPMorgan treasurer/CIO role (repo crisis, Covid)
• 08:44 – Crisis lessons: 2008 vs. 2019
• 14:00 – Introduction of the MCCLR framework
• 17:40 – Discussion on “backdoor” return of Glass-Steagall
• 22:11 – Why the current market opportunity is unique
• 25:29 – The disappearance of bond vigilantes; modern market discipline
• 28:53 – The “elevator pitch” for Maric Capital and its differentiated lens
• 31:37 – Portfolio structure: multi-asset, one collaborative book
• 37:23 – Use of AI in tool-building and opportunity analysis
• 39:44 – AI Capex boom as a source of “cheap risk”
• 43:34 – Trump’s GSE $200B tweet: how Maric responds
• 45:54 – Risk balancing: long/short approach and live “flywheels”
• 49:26 – Stress-based risk management methodology
• 51:04 – Trophy office real estate: contrarian opportunity
• 54:33 – How liquidity vanishes in crises and the true causes of firm failure
• 56:03 – What investors are overlooking in the alternative credit space
• 57:31 – Final lightning round: mentors, reading, advice

Tone & Style

The tone is candid, wry, and very “market operator.” Both Ritholtz and Sherwin blend practical wisdom, deep experience, and humor. Sherwin is especially good at unwrapping complex topics—market structure, regulation, risk—letting the audience in on both technical process and the personal side of decision making in high-stakes, high-velocity environments. Their dialogue focuses on lessons learned, processes used, and overlooked opportunities rather than predictive bravado.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode provides a masterclass in how market veterans translate structural change, regulatory ambiguity, and market specialization into flexible, actionable investment strategies in alternative credit. It will especially appeal to those interested in the “plumbing” of the financial system, institutional risk management, and how to establish a differentiated asset management firm in a crowded, evolving space.