Masters in Business Podcast Summary: "Who is Government" with Michael Lewis

Release Date: March 27, 2025

Bloomberg Radio's "Masters in Business," hosted by Barry Ritholtz, features an in-depth conversation with acclaimed author Michael Lewis about his latest book, "Who is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service." This episode delves into Lewis's exploration of government institutions, the unsung heroes within them, and the intricate dynamics between public service and the private sector.

1. Introduction to Michael Lewis and His New Book

Barry Ritholtz opens the discussion by praising Michael Lewis's knack for uncovering compelling stories that often precede major headlines. He highlights Lewis's previous works—"The Big Short," "Flash Boys," "Moneyball," and "Going Infinite"—noting how each book anticipated significant events or trends in their respective fields.

Barry Ritholtz [01:43]: "Every time I am afforded an opportunity to sit down with Michael Lewis, it's just delightful. He's such a fascinating character."

Lewis introduces his new book, "Who is Government?", emphasizing its focus on the dedicated civil servants who provide essential services to the American public, from ensuring safety in coal mines to combating cybercrime.

2. Evolution from "The Fifth Risk" to "Who is Government?"

The conversation transitions to Lewis's previous book, "The Fifth Risk," which explored the critical yet often overlooked functions of federal agencies during presidential transitions. Lewis recounts his experience covering the Trump administration's unprecedented move of dismissing an extensive transition team, leading him to investigate departments like Agriculture, Commerce, and Energy.

Michael Lewis [04:07]: "I thought it's like a great comic premise. I'm going to go around the government and get the briefings, and the reader will be on the joke that we know more about the government than the president does because they haven't bothered to learn."

This investigative approach laid the groundwork for "Who is Government?", where Lewis collaborates with a team of esteemed writers to delve deeper into various government sectors, highlighting individual stories of public servants.

3. Collaborative Writing Process and Story Selection

Lewis explains his decision to involve other writers such as Dave Eggers, Geraldine Brooks, Kamau Bell, Casey Sepp, Sarah Val, and John Lanchester in crafting different chapters of the book. Each writer brings a unique perspective, allowing for a diverse portrayal of government functions.

Michael Lewis [32:19]: "I picked them one, because they're all fun. Two, because they're all able to kind of go in and find stories that other people don't see. And three, their voices are so different from each other, I thought they'd find very different things."

One notable chapter by John Lanchester examines the Consumer Price Index, showcasing the intricate processes behind national statistics and their foundational role in democracy.

4. Highlighting Unsung Heroes: Chris Mark and Others

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Christopher Mark, a former coal miner turned engineer who revolutionized mine safety. Lewis shares how Mark's personal journey and dedication to public safety exemplify the mission-driven ethos of government employees.

Michael Lewis [19:17]: "It's a fascinating psychological thing... Instead of the free market figuring it out, with the regulations, we would still be having all these coal mine collapses."

Barry commends the depth and humanity Lewis brings to these stories, emphasizing their nonpartisan nature and the essential roles these individuals play in everyday life.

Barry Ritholtz [26:24]: "You're familiar with the Peltzman effect. Does that ring a bell?"

Michael Lewis [28:35]: "The greater the illusion of safety we create in the markets, the more recklessly the people behave."

5. Navigating Political Polarization and Reception

Lewis addresses the challenges of releasing a nonpartisan book in today's highly polarized environment. He discusses the backlash from certain political factions attempting to discredit his work based on stereotypes and preconceived notions about government employees.

Michael Lewis [44:40]: "Everything gets quickly politicized. You're either in tribe A or tribe B... You can't do anything about that except try to come at the material pure of heart and open a mind."

Despite potential criticisms, Lewis emphasizes the universal truths and valuable insights his book offers, aiming to bridge understanding across political divides.

6. Writing Routine and Future Projects

Barry inquires about Lewis's writing process and how it has evolved. Lewis shares that fatherhood shifted his routines from nocturnal writing sessions to morning-focused endeavors. He highlights a deeper emphasis on character development, ensuring that the individuals driving his narratives are well-rounded and compelling.

Michael Lewis [61:34]: "I've gotten more adamant. I've got to be more certain about the character before I start."

Looking ahead, Lewis hints at exploring topics such as the influence of figures like Elon Musk on government operations, the commercialization of youth and college sports, and personal experiences with grief.

7. Personal Insights and Interests

In a lighter segment, Lewis shares his sports affiliations and personal connections, revealing his fandom for the Chicago Cubs, Golden State Warriors, and New Orleans Saints. These anecdotes provide a glimpse into his life beyond writing, showcasing his diverse interests and connections.

Michael Lewis [68:22]: "Nico Horner is their second baseman... And so he has led me to become a Cubs fan... I've got to stay in the Hampton Inn. He wants to sit in the back of the plane."

8. Conclusion and Upcoming Events

Barry wraps up the episode by promoting an upcoming event featuring Michael Lewis and encouraging listeners to explore Lewis's extensive body of work available on various platforms. He extends gratitude to his production team, underscoring the collaborative effort behind each insightful conversation.

Barry Ritholtz [71:54]: "If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and check out any of the previous 500 conversations we've had over the past 11 years."

Notable Quotes

• Michael Lewis [19:17]:
  "Instead of the free market figuring it out, with the regulations, we would still be having all these coal mine collapses."

• Barry Ritholtz [26:24]:
  "You're familiar with the Peltzman effect. Does that ring a bell?"

• Michael Lewis [28:35]:
  "The greater the illusion of safety we create in the markets, the more recklessly the people behave."

• Michael Lewis [44:40]:
  "Everything gets quickly politicized. You're either in tribe A or tribe B... You can't do anything about that except try to come at the material pure of heart and open a mind."

Final Thoughts

In "Who is Government?," Michael Lewis sheds light on the indispensable yet often unnoticed work of government employees. Through rich storytelling and collaborative narratives, the book challenges stereotypes, highlights essential services, and underscores the profound impact of public service on everyday life. This podcast episode not only provides a window into Lewis's latest work but also celebrates the dedication and ingenuity of those who operate behind the scenes in government institutions.

For those interested in understanding the intricate workings of government and the individuals who ensure its effectiveness, "Who is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service" is a compelling and enlightening read.