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- [00:01]
Podcast Host (Narrator)
On Masters of Scale, we talk a lot about inflection points, those moments when a technology stops being optional and starts being fundamental. AI presents one of those moments. And behind every breakthrough, whether it's medical research or education or even cinematic visual effects, there's infrastructure most people never see as the essential cloud for AI. CoreWeave is building that foundation. It provides a purpose built AI cloud designed specifically for pioneers at leading AI labs and enterprises. Ready to power the biggest ideas and the boldest ambitions. Ready for Anything. Ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWeave.com ReadyForAnything
- [00:53]
Maryam Banakaram
startups grow in unpredictable ways, but your infrastructure shouldn't Deal scales with you from Employee 1 to Employee 1000. Deal's real time payroll engine cuts weeks long cycles down to minutes, and their global experts keep you compliant as you expand. Plus, startups can tap into perks like up to $25,000 in deal credits and support programs designed specifically for high growth teams. Deal is the fastest way to hire, manage, pay and equip anyone, anywhere. Deal your Forever People platform. Visit d e l.com mo to learn more and book a demo. I remember when I took the job at NBCUniversal and it was my dream job, right? Like cheers friends. That was my network. I show up and the HR person says to me, you know that these are the mean kids in school, like the ones who won't let you sit at the cafeteria table. And I remember saying to her, like, maybe you should have said that to me before I signed my contract. And then I had my group meeting with my team and somebody said to me, we fired all these people and hired you. And then a person said, well, you have the worst job outside of the janitor.
- [02:17]
Bob Safian
That's Marianne Ban, former CMO of Univision, Gannett and Hyatt, and host of the podcast the Messy Parts. Today we focus on career disruption, which is escalating across the economy. Maryam stories and advice are illuminating, from navigating politics of the C suite to embracing joy and betting on yourself. She grew up in Iran and so shares her personal insight into the current Middle east conflict. Looking for hope amid the chaos. Maryam is funny, unpredictable and inspirational in her commitment to the power of human connection and what we can all achieve. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian and this is Rapid Response. I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Marianne Banakaram, host of the terrific podcast the Messy Parts, founder of the New Community the interval, which I'm eager to hear more about. Also founder of NYC Next and the Longest Table, former chief Marketing officer. From Univision to Gannett to Hyatt and a longtime friend, Maryam. This is going to be fun.
- [03:26]
Maryam Banakaram
I'm excited. Bob. Let's go.
- [03:28]
Bob Safian
Let's start with the messy parts. Cause first of all, I love that word, messy. Can you describe what the messy parts is and what you mean by messy?
- [03:37]
Maryam Banakaram
The show is about interviewing successful people about the things that go wrong. I think that in a world like we live in today, we see the highlights real. Whether it's on Instagram or LinkedIn or anyplace else, it looks really easy to sort of climb the ladder or become a founder and have a unicorn company, right? But the truth is, it's never easy. Everybody has messy parts. Those moments stay with you and you figure out how to pick yourself back up. They're never easy, but actually, that's where the growth is, right?
- [04:06]
Bob Safian
I love the word messy. Cause I feel like creativity is messy, growth is messy. You know, we have plans. But life is really what happens when you know your plan didn't work out. Like, have you always been drawn to messy?
- [04:19]
Maryam Banakaram
Well, I think I never knew anything but messy. I mean, I'm a kid who grew up in a revolution. My mom and dad went to college in Boston and left me behind with my grandmother in Iran when I was three, which most people think is really traumatic. But what else did I know? You know, I had a father who drowned windsurfing when I was a sophomore in college. I mean, I only know Messi. But what I also learned is, as a result, how to pick myself back up pretty quickly. And I think the sooner you learn that, the easier it gets. Not that we want people to have complicated journeys, but I do think you develop this muscle memory that while it may be hard, you learn sort of that it's gonna be okay.
- [05:00]
Bob Safian
And sometimes the mess is the opportunity too, right? It's finding the opportunity in the mess.
- [05:09]
Maryam Banakaram
100%. Bloomberg talks about having started Bloomberg as a result of being fired, right? When people step away or pause, whether by choice or by, you know, somebody else's choice, what ends up happening is that you have to sort of decompress and deal and find a path. I had a job that I took at Amarati Puris Lintos. It's not even on my resume. I took that job, and a week in, I knew, oh, things were not good here. And, you know, that was terrifying. But if I hadn't walked away from that job, I wouldn't have had a pivot in that moment. That really became transformative for my career after that. It's easy to see that in retrospect. But when it was happening and I was like, oh, my effing God. Yeah, that didn't feel so good.
- [05:59]
Bob Safian
Yeah, but it's hard to walk away from things, especially if you're someone who like, no, I'm a successful person. I get things done. I solve problems. Why can't I solve this one?
- [06:09]
Maryam Banakaram
I'm a professional problem solver. That's generally what I say people are. In the world of business, the hardest thing for me is sitting still. When that pause comes, it's a real moment of identity shift. Because, you know, I remember leaving Hyatt and taking a year and a half off. And literally, to the person, they would be like, she's the former global CMO of Hyatt. As if somehow I had no value outside of that title. I had headhunters who called me who said, you know, don't wait too long because you're not gonna be able to go back in. I mean, there's so much anxiety that's placed on you when you pause again, whether it's by choice or not. And I think for people who are successful, you know, to get to that level. Yeah, your identity is completely intertwined because you had to make sacrifices in order to be able to get there.
- [06:56]
Bob Safian
I know when I. When I left Fast Company, you know, which I had been there for 11 years, it was a long time. And I did have this sense of, like, what is my relevance? You know, like, where do I go next? And you. You do feel a little lost.
- [07:12]
Maryam Banakaram
I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up. I don't know where this journey is going to take me, but each thing leads you to the thing. Right. And so I think that belief that it will work out, even though it seems easy to say, is actually pretty much true. I would say that is the through line among all the people who've come on now. They have. Some of them will tell you, you know, live your purpose. Some of them tell you, don't live your purpose. Like, there's a lot of competing ideas, but the one thing I will say is grit, resilience. They work hard and they learn over time that even though they have these bumps, which are inevitable, that it somehow works itself out.
- [07:50]
Bob Safian
You mentioned your upbringing in Iran. What do you make of it? Do you still have family that you're in touch with?
- [07:57]
Maryam Banakaram
Yes, I still have family there. My aunt and her husband are still there. I left when I was 11, in fifth grade, at the end of fifth grade. And for sure that was, I think, the beginning of a feeling of non belonging in a way. Right. Because you were sort of extracted in the middle of your life from the world that you knew. I have felt numb pretty much since then in some ways. I remember when the women life freedom broke out. There was this song called Bararia, which, which actually won a Grammy that year. When that song played for the first time, something in me broke and I cried. I don't think I'd cried the entire time. Right. For me, I was a kid as the revolution heated up. We had more and more kids who were being pulled out of school. We had teachers who left, we had martial law, My father was under house arrest. But as a kid, oddly, I found it exciting. And so I had an American teacher. She did current events. And I remember at the end of the year, she said to my mom, your daughter's going to become a journalist. And as they were killing all the journalists, my mom said to her, that is a fate worse than death. So, you know, but I think it's hard not to look on. Obviously there's a lot of civilians being impacted, not just in Iran, but in also all the other places where bombs are being dropped. There's no question that this has been a government that's sort of terrorized its own people. I think there's a sense of we're going to burn it to the ground before we give up. So you worry about where the end is. I don't think anybody, you know, who knows what's happened in terms of the repression and really the aggression which they've put down. Any kind of protest, you know, would be sad that things change. But I do think we're going to experience a high cost of what you call, you know, unintended casualties. Right. And I think that's a hard thing to watch from afar. And I know people who check in on their family, and I should say the families check in on them because the Internet isn't working, cell phones aren't working, landlines are how parents are getting through to their children or cousins to their cousins. You know, people wake up and it's pitch black from the fumes. Right. There's a lot. And I think I'm worried about the water supply. There's all kinds of things. And that's not even talking about all the implications that could happen outside of Iran and other neighboring countries. And frankly, Even here. You know, I have kids who've never been to Iran, right. They weren't born outside of Iran. Would I like to be able to take them back and show them where I grew up and sort of this incredible rich history, you know, a country that's been around for a very long time with amazing sites and people, of course. But the question becomes. The question becomes, at what price? And by the way, is there an end in sight? I don't know. It's hard to tell. I mean, do any of us know?
- [10:54]
Bob Safian
I mean, out of all this, you have been yourself a very creative person as a marketer and otherwise. I mean, I remember during the pandemic, you sort of threw yourself into championing New York City at a time when cities seemed scary and at risk. And you rallied people in the art and outdoor performances. And you put together the longest table, which is this. Was this sort of block long dining table in Manhattan to kind of fuel connection. Now you've started a community called the Interval for Executives in transition. Is there something that you feel like connects those things?
- [11:33]
Maryam Banakaram
The through line is belonging. I think for me, as a kid who lost her sense of belonging, not only creating belonging for myself, which I really did, by joining and doing, like, that's how I found belonging. I was like, I'm willing to help and get involved, but also finding. Helping others find belonging for themselves. Like, nobody needs to repeat middle school. I say, like, I think we can all relate to that emotion. I think that that matters in the world of business. When you step away again by choice or not, there is this incredible moment of vulnerability. And I think what's amazing about the Interval is that you find a group who is willing to support you without judgment. I mean, I remember when I left Hyatt, my son said to me, mom, you're the most busy unemployed person I know. And I think, you know, motion was my default. He was not wrong. But I think one of the nice things about sitting with other members of the Interval is that we. We recognize each other. I actually spoke to somebody who went back in for a job, and she called me a couple months later, and she said, I've decided to leave this job that I went back in for. And I was like, wow, you just took it like, what happened? She said, being part of the Interval made me realize that life is too short and I don't want to live my life that way, and I have the privilege of not. So I've decided to move on. I think there's so many different ways to live your Life. For me, the Longest Table, which is a nonprofit, has been a way to reinvent myself, right? To just give back in a different way. And honestly, I'm in a place to be able to do that now. Even doing the podcast. I always wanted to be a journalist. Apparently, that was seeded from fifth grade. But I was financially not in a place where I felt like I had that opportunity. So, you know, my mom used to say, and it was such a cringe moment for me. She'd be like, it's never too late. You can still be Oprah. And I'd be like, ugh, mom. You know, And I think, like, you know what? I may not. I may not be Oprah, but I can be me. I can be messy me.
- [13:35]
Bob Safian
And the interval. Is the. Is the scale of it designed to be small, or is this something that you feel like, over time, will become a bigger community?
- [13:46]
Maryam Banakaram
The backstory of that is that when I left Hyatt, I took a year and a half off. It was such a moment of privilege to be able to stop working and not worry about paying my bills. And it led me to write this article, which the New York Times published. I talked about stepping away right this moment where my son said to me, if you go back in, I'd miss you. And that moment, like, really stopped me in my tracks and made me decide to not go back in, which was terrifying. But then, as I said, amazing. So Shelly Huff and I met. Shelly's my co founder. We met at Fortune's Most Powerful Women, a room that was, you know, a big thing to get invited into. She just left as CEO of Serta Simmons, and she came to find me a couple months later in New York, and I said to her, this is a hard thing to go through. Like, if you run at that pace, when you stop, it's like the earth moves beneath your feet. And it's hard for people around you to understand because, you know, they're like, oh, my God, you have free time. You can go to yoga, right? But you're having all these existential moments. And so I introduced Shelly to a couple of people, and then over the course of 18 months, there was, like, a hundred people in this group. Like, literally, there isn't a week that doesn't go by where somebody doesn't say, I have somebody else who should join. So I think we're gonna see. Now, we know, having been parts of lots of communities, that size matters in terms of, like, intimacy, right? And so I think we're very intentional about how we're gonna you know, evolve the interval. If you reach this level and you find a group of people who are willing to be there for you, I joke, like in their curlers, right? Not like in their best suit, like, just like, yeah, I see you. So I think the intimacy matters. And can you do that and scale
- [15:25]
Bob Safian
the interval grew out of Fortune's most powerful women is it for women? Primarily.
- [15:31]
Maryam Banakaram
Since we've announced, since we went public, we actually have gotten inbounds from men who want to join. Men go through the same kind of a thing when they step away. I talked to a friend who was a CEO at a very big company and he left his job at the end of December. I talked to him maybe a couple weeks ago. He said for two months I was super busy. Today's the first day I have nothing to do. I don't know what to do with myself. I just think about this like, you know, my middle school analogy. It's like, you know, when you're in a big job, everybody calls you the minute you leave that big job, like all of a sudden it's like you hit the plague. Nobody seems to remember you, right? But the two people who call you, you remember them. You remember the people who are there for you. Not on the high, but on the low. Because guess what? It's easy to be there for the party. Not so easy to be there, you know, for the funeral.
- [16:21]
Bob Safian
Maryam gives a great reminder about what true support and connection means. Like most things, it can be easier said than done. So what does it take to dance in a flash mob? Or navigate the internal politics of the C suite? Or host a community dinner across the length of the Brooklyn Bridge? Maryam shares stories about all three and more after the break. Stay with us.
- [16:45]
Podcast Host (Narrator)
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- [18:26]
Bob Safian
Before the break, Founder of NYC Next and the Interval Maryam Banakaram shared how her upbringing in Iran during the time of revolution has shaped her career. Now Maryam talks about the politics of corporate life, how she hunts for joy in unpredictable places like flash mobs, and the value of embracing messy ideas big and small. Let's dive back in. One of the through lines I see in your life is that you are a terrific marketer. You get people excited in unexpected ways. I mean, you mentioned to me when we were talking yesterday that you were recently part of a flash mob.
- [19:08]
Maryam Banakaram
So the flash mob was organized for the Every Woman Biennial, which is a biennial that is for women and non binary artists. And so they were organizing this flash mob as part of their opening, which was on International Women's Day on Sunday. But they had me at flash mob. I was like, I've always wanted to be in a flash mob, right? I mean, I don't know, I'm not a great dancer, but you know, I like to dance. I went to one rehearsal, I kept saying to them, make it simple, I have no memory anymore. And then we showed up on Sunday, there we were on 22nd street dancing in bright colors and it was so fun. We danced to Lady Gaga. I have to say I would definitely join a second flash mob. And you know, one of the things I think is we don't have enough joy in our lives these days. I mean the world can be difficult. Like there's a lot going on, as you pointed out in Iran. But even here and just having a moment where you remember joy, where you actually get to feel joy, which dancing does for you. I think watching a sports game does for people, you know, experiencing music does for you. It really does change your I will confess that I had to buy a bottle of Advil in order to be able to survive a flash mob. Because you know, like my hips aren't the same.
- [20:24]
Bob Safian
You seem like you never get self conscious to me, Miriam. I mean I saw a video you posted recently walking through the subway while it was like on fire. Like there was smoke everywhere. I mean, it's not the time that I would tend to pull out my
- [20:38]
Maryam Banakaram
phone, I get on the subway and I hear an alarm. So I'm like, wait a second, what's happening? And then I say to the person next to me, like, are we moving towards the smoke? So I decide, okay, I'm going to pivot and go the other way. And so I just found out that the messy parts had been written up really nicely by somebody on medium. I just wanted to talk about that. So, you know, it's like I'm a millennial or whatever that is that knows how to make those videos. I will say, like, anything, the more you do it, the better you get. Now definitely my daughter does the eye roll like, oh my God, mom. But yeah, you're right. I probably. It's a good thing. I was never worried about being cool because I definitely am not.
- [21:18]
Bob Safian
Is that one of the lessons that you've learned from the marketing world? I mean, are there lessons about the marketing world that folks listening to this that you feel like people don't get or should get more about what's effective, what makes it work?
- [21:35]
Maryam Banakaram
One of the things I've learned between the New York City next, the longest table, the messy parts interval is like a lot of these things were not baked business plans. You know, they weren't like laid out with the strategy in a ten year plan. They were just ideas. You know, the longest table was an idea like, what if we did this? And then I tried it. I had no idea if it was going to work or not. It was a low investment thing to do other than being embarrassed if it didn't work out. Right. And so we just tried it. And now we have over 2,000 people who come to Chelsea for a long table on the street and 50 of these that have happened across the country. I didn't set out to create a movement, you know, I didn't see my way to 50 tables when I started. I think one of the things, you know, that I highly encourage everybody to do is just to be willing to try things. And oftentimes what happens when you're in these big jobs, you have to convince people, right? You have to present big proposals and convince them. Do brands matter? How much is it going to cost? What's the art? By that time, like, the creative idea has been, you know, shriveled up and thrown away. What I've discovered between New York City next, where we did a moment for Broadway and the Billy Joel video that won an Emmy, right? Like totally out of my regular box is that sometimes if you really believe in something and you invite others in, because none of these Things were done as one person. Real magic can be unlocked. And in the end, marketing is about storytelling, right? I think the longest table has grown through other people's storytelling. And in the end, it's about connecting emotionally, right? So people want to feel things. When you're a cmo, it's so much command and control. When you're in the C suite in general, right? You're leading from the top, directing from the top. I tell people you do the longest table, it's about grace and trust. Somebody shows up for a volunteer meeting and says they're going to organize the day of volunteers. You don't know them and you're like, all right, Bob looks okay. Like Bob. You know what? All you. And if Bob doesn't do it my way, it's totally okay. Actually, it's kind of amazing. And so when you do that, everybody, it's like an orchestra. They all get to have their own piece. They all get to be individuals, but part of a collective. I think that is a huge lesson for marketing because in today's day and age, you don't control things. You think you control things, but you don't.
- [23:55]
Bob Safian
One of the things that businesses sort of struggle with is the idea that, you know, there's sort of, there's organic demand. If you have a creative and a good enough idea and then there's sort of marketing driven demand is these two different levers and, you know, how much do you put towards one versus how much you put towards the other? Do you have a philosophy about that?
- [24:19]
Maryam Banakaram
In the end, great marketing is actually solving somebody's need, right? That's why marketers, by definition are curious. Like, you have to be interested. I remember when I was at NBCUniversal, I was not an oxygen viewer, so it didn't matter whether I liked the show or not. It was about who the oxygen viewer was and did the show actually connect with them. In today's world, it's very, very two way, right? It's not a one way experience. So how do you invite them in? So, I mean, I don't know. In the end, I have less of a framework and I think I've developed more of an instinct over time. But you do have to bring other people along in a big organization, right? You have to get the CFO on board, the CEO on board. I mean, that is part of the job in the C suite. I will say when you're doing a longest table or whatever, you have to bring other people who are as crazy as you who are willing to do things that may seem irrational to other people, but when they come together, boy, is there magic to be unlocked.
- [25:18]
Bob Safian
You've been inside the C Suite at a bunch of different places. Are there things that people don't share about what it's really like to be in the C Suite? Like that people don't understand what that experience is or what's happening in there.
- [25:33]
Maryam Banakaram
I mean, what I would say is it's very political, right. And I don't know, do people really understand that you go in gung ho, trying to make all this change and the company may reject the organ that they need? Right. I will say, as somebody who did change in turnaround, I often was the outsider who was brought in.
- [25:50]
Bob Safian
You were not shy about being the outsider. You didn't mind that necessarily, right?
- [25:56]
Maryam Banakaram
Well, I was always the outsider in my life, so it was kind of a perfect fit for me. I will say that you do have this, like, bravado or this ability to put fear aside, which I think is definitely true for me. I remember when I took the job at NBCUniversal, and it was my dream job, right? Like, Cheers, Friends. That was my network, and I get the job, and I'm so excited. It was after Univision and I signed a contract. I show up and the HR person says to me, you know that these are the mean kids in school, like, the ones who won't let you sit at the cafeteria table. And I remember saying to her, like, maybe you should have said that to me before I signed my contract. And then I had my group meeting with my team, and somebody said to me, we fired all these people and hired you. And then a person said, well, you have the worst job outside of the janitor. I was like, welcome. And so we learn at every job, we learn, like, what we like, who we want to be. I think I've learned to be kinder over time and less focused on just getting the job done right. Like, you hire me and I'm going to move mountains to get what you need done. Now, I think I would push back a little bit more on that. Now I have a little bit more perspective. I mean, I remember so distinctly at NBC, there was a. I had two bosses. There was a moment where one boss, I'd inherited a group, and she wanted me to just get rid of all of them. And I was like, okay, I know a way to solve that. I could do that. You know, I have a way like that I could make that happen. And the other one was like, I'm not gonna let you do that, because Politically, that is massacre. And you're gonna. That's. That's not gonna be a good thing, right? So it was interesting having these two bosses who. One who just wanted what she wanted at whatever cost, and the other one who sort of had a political read. And I think you get better, but what is the corporate job like? Like, half of it is about getting the job. Half of it is just the politics.
- [27:51]
Bob Safian
You and I have talked privately about that. Some of the CEOs you worked for, you had a lot of heart. For others, kind of less so. I'm not asking you to name names, but, like, what makes a good CEO?
- [28:02]
Maryam Banakaram
You want some messy parts, Bob?
- [28:04]
Bob Safian
Oh, you know, I don't want to put you on the spot, make you uncomfortable. But, like, what makes a good CEO? What makes a. Makes a less good CEO?
- [28:12]
Maryam Banakaram
For me, I really care deeply about purpose, right? I cared about working at a place where I believed in the product, that I thought we could make a difference beyond just making money. So I picked people who were purpose driven. Like, that was a thing that mattered for me. Sometimes they are purpose driven, sometimes they say they're purpose driven, as you know. You know, I remember people always say, like, I want people who are going to tell me like it is. Sometimes they mean that, sometimes they don't. I mean, I remember I met a. A CEO and he wanted to hire me, like, literally after an hour meeting. And I was a little thrown. And I said, you don't know me. Like, I'm actually going to tell you bad news even when you don't want to hear it. Like, are you sure you're up for that? And people think they're up for that. And then you do that, and guess what? There's a price to pay. I think for me, choosing a CEO is like choosing a friend in the sense that, like, I have to be values aligned, right? I have to know that you're not just gonna pivot on the dime and be like, oh, you know, flavor of the month, like, you ha. You have to actually be able to make hard decisions that you can stand by. This something I learned early on, actually, as a child in revolution, where it was, like, easy for people to just move expeditiously to save their skin. I wanted to be on the boat with other people who are rowing in the same direction for a cause that was bigger than them themselves. Really, there was something magical about that. And honestly, when we started doing New York City Next and the Longest table, I really felt that right in that moment where the city was at its Worst when really there was nobody out on the streets, when everybody came together to make a moment for Broadway happen, to sing one song on the steps of Times Square, when nobody was being given permits, where Bernadette Peters showed up and 24 other people and, and Clear Channel gave us free boards and Gary Vayner did free PR and Andrew Gollum did free ads that we put up. It wasn't about any one person. And by the way, who better than marketers to do that kind of a thing? Who better than marketers to create community and create a long table? I mean, seriously, I mean that is what we're built for, not just making a marketing campaign. So yeah, I can get on a soapbox
- [30:24]
Bob Safian
you. And I texted earlier this week about sort of the, the environment we're in and you know that the changes going on in Iran and the economy and we were encouraging each other to like focus on what's closest at hand and the things we can control. When you're looking at projects that you're going to do, new ideas, new initiatives, new marketing things like how much do you say, like, oh, here's low hanging fruit that I know has momentum that I can, you know, play off of versus like oh, here's a big bet of something that like it may never work out but like I'm going to go for it anyway.
- [31:03]
Maryam Banakaram
I was always a plan A, B and C kid. You know, I never thought something was going to work out. So I always, I was always having different things. I mean, in my head it's a bit of a mess. I think AI could really organize my head. So I try lots of different things. Not really necessarily always knowing if it's going to work out or not. With the longest table, I had no idea if that was going to work. It was just an idea. But when we started doing it and you know, just putting up the flyers every night when I walked the dog at 11 o', clock, I re flyered the street. You know, I didn't leave it to chance. It wasn't gonna not work because I didn't put in the elbow grease. So then when that worked the first year it was like, wow, there's something here. So I could have that moment of like, okay, there's something here, maybe we should do it again. But I also dream of doing one across the Brooklyn Bridge. Now that's not easy, right? But it could be really amazingly glorious, like literally and figuratively connecting people over a body of water for a shared meal. So I've been chasing that for three years. I literally chased the head of the DOT under the Adams administration to have a conversation with him about it. Like, no stone unturned. That won't be the reason it won't happen. I'm always optimistic.
- [32:16]
Bob Safian
So in this world where so much is uncertain, is there a lesson of messiness that we should all, you know, take with us?
- [32:26]
Maryam Banakaram
I would say embrace the mess. It's actually difficult, but the thing that will be most rewarding if you can somehow let go and sort of just be and remember the things that gave you joy when you were younger, you begin to connect with things you didn't even, you know, you didn't know about for a while. And I think, like, that's what the flash mob was about. I was like, why not? Let's see what that opens up.
- [32:49]
Bob Safian
Well, Maryam, this has been great. Thank you. Thank you so much for doing it.
- [32:53]
Maryam Banakaram
Thank you so much for having me.
- [32:58]
Bob Safian
I just find Mariam a total breath of fresh air. I always have. She brings an energy I think we all sorely need. Her truly entrepreneurial spirit, her wisdom about bold ideas, her sense of experimentation and community, and most importantly, optimism. Optimism. She's emblematic of what I call generation flux. Those who are ready for whatever the world sends our way. The fear of embarrassment shouldn't stop us. Whether for our professional aspirations or more broadly in society, willingness to embrace the mess, as Marianne puts it, is the key to true progress. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a Wait. What? Original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashumaku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Mallad. For more, visit rapidresponseshow.com.