← Masters of Scale
Masters of Scale
Your Rich BFF dishes on dopamine spending and the new money minefield, with Vivian Tu
00:38:07
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- [00:01]
Podcast Host/Announcer
On Masters of Scale, we talk a lot about inflection points, those moments when a technology stops being optional and starts being fundamental. AI presents one of those moments. And behind every breakthrough, whether it's medical research or education or even cinematic visual effects, there's infrastructure most people never see as the essential cloud for AI. CoreWeave is building that foundation. It provides a purpose built AI cloud designed specifically for pioneers at leading AI labs and enterprises. Ready to power the biggest ideas and the boldest ambitions. Ready for Anything. Ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWeave.com ReadyForAnything
- [00:53]
Vivian Tu
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- [02:16]
Bob Safian
That's Vivian Chu, CEO of youf're Rich bff. The personal finance media brand. Vivian provides advice to millions of followers across multiple platforms as well as via her best selling book Rich af. Now she's got a new book out well Endowed. And so it seemed the perfect time to check in on the state of financial risks and opportunities, how Gen z is navigating 2026's uncertainties and the implications of what she calls lifestyle inflation. We dig into tech, stock valuations, online prediction markets, and the lessons we can learn from Rihanna Vivian is practical, instructive and fun. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian and this is Rapid Response. I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Vivian Tu, the financial educator known as your rich bff, advisor to millions, author of the bestselling book Rich AF and author of the new book well Endowed. Vivian, thanks for, thanks for joining us.
- [03:20]
Vivian Tu
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat.
- [03:22]
Bob Safian
I have so much been looking forward to this. Earlier in my career, I also found myself focused on personal finance, which wasn't particularly my plan, as I know it wasn't initially for you. But I ended up as the editor of Money magazine, which was the, you know, the biggest personal finance outlet at the time. And I remember feeling this sort of, this burden, this pressure of, of offering personal advice to millions of people which, you know, as, you know, you can't really do or, or, or maybe you can today with social channels, I don't know. But back then it was, it was largely like a print monthly magazine and trying to give personal advice. It, it's, it's hard.
- [04:02]
Vivian Tu
Very, very hard. I mean, I think I have the luxury of being able to put out content daily. I feel like social media has very much democratized access to this type of information. But yeah, especially once your audience starts to get a little larger, you have to realize that, like, they're not all the same demographic anymore. Some of them want budgeting tips, some of them want investing information, some of them are actually looking for how to build an estate plan. What you do is try to give a little something to everybody. But, you know, at the end of the day, not every single post is going to be something for every single person. And I think that's okay.
- [04:38]
Bob Safian
Have you had any folks who sort of have responded to your advice and then like, complained to you about it?
- [04:43]
Vivian Tu
I'm always giving best practices and there will be people who are on absolute edge cases that then complain that what I'm saying is incorrect. So the other day I gave a quick finger to the wind strategy to determine how much of your portfolio should be in equities and how much should be in bonds. And the strategy is you take your age, you minus 10, and then you round to the closest five divisible number. So for me, I was like, I'm 31 and 21 rounds down to 20. And so 20% of my portfolio would be in bonds and the rest would be in equities. And someone said, well, I'm 47 and I've been in 100% equities for the last 10 years and I've been making so much more money and I would have not made so much money if I was in bonds. And I'm like, true, but ostensibly you're also retiring in 13 years. Everybody's gonna come and find and pick a hole and it's like, ah, yeah, this girl doesn't know what she's talking about. It's like, yeah, I would know what I'm talking about. If you started investing in your 20s, but if you're playing catch up a little bit later, sure, yeah, you might have to be in a little bit of a riskier portfolio, knowing full well that you may not retire until you're 75.
- [05:59]
Bob Safian
I mean, people's understanding of, of that word risk is so variable. Like, yeah, I'm fine taking a risk as long as I'm not gonna lose any money. Right, Right. That's mostly what people say. Right. So the subhead of your new book, well Endowed, it reads the secrets to strategic planning, building a foundation for you and your family and creating lasting generational wealth. Your first book, Rich AF came out in 2023. What prompted you to write the new one?
- [06:29]
Vivian Tu
Rich AF was very much a love letter to my early twenties or the beginning of anybody's financial journey when they're really focused on how do I make more money at my how do I budget smarter, how do I save, how do I invest efficiently, how do I handle some of the trickier things like paying down debt. Great. Once you have a baseline financial foundation there, well Endowed is where you want to go because well Endowed discusses all of the level two items like buying a home, considering buying a car, getting insurance for all different facets of your life. And then also I ended up getting married in between the first book and this book. And man, was that a really fun filled, extremely expensive party with a lot of paperwork involved. So I think I have to talk about marriage and divorce. That's something that was on my mind as my husband and I were drafting our prenup. I talk about how to manage money between family and friends. Because once you start to get a little bit more financially savvy, everybody, you know, Uncle Tony comes knocking on the door being like, I have a small business idea and then the future. So things that like, I've personally started thinking about, which are starting a family, how would I set those kiddos up for financial success? How do I plan my dream retirement without really having to sacrifice so much today? And last but not least, I mentioned this earlier, but estate planning, like trusts, wills, power of attorney, a healthcare directive, like the knock on wood, things that you never want to have happen, but ultimately all of us die. Whether that's at 110 and you've lived a really long life or unfortunately, there are some really untimely ends which leave whole families in a tizzy. I wanted this book to be a way for people to feel like they were spending their money and actually getting what they wanted out of life.
- [08:18]
Bob Safian
Well, I. And, you know, the more resources that you have and the. The bigger your family circle becomes, the more complicated all of this stuff becomes, right?
- [08:28]
Vivian Tu
Always.
- [08:28]
Bob Safian
It just. It just builds and builds. I'm curious how you think about sort of the tone that you use in talking to your. Your audience, your customer and who they are. Like, I used to get into these debates with colleagues when I was at MONEY who wanted to sort of dumb down everything. And. And I would say, just because these folks aren't sophisticated about finance doesn't mean they aren't sophisticated people. And I'm curious how you think about who it is you're talking to.
- [08:56]
Vivian Tu
Your rich BFF actually started for my girlfriends. I went to the University of Chicago. It's an incred, competitive, elite university. My best friend is a surgeon. Now I have friends who are lawyers, who are consultants, who are engineers. But I remember trying to explain to them why it was important for them to put money into their 401k. And people like my girlfriend, who can literally give a face transplant to a burn victim. I saw her eyes start to, like, just glaze over, and I'm like, okay, you are a smart person, but maybe you're just not smart with your money yet. How do I explain this in a way that the average person can understand and feel smart, that doesn't question their intelligence. It's not to shame people. It's not to embarrass them for something that they don't know. Because we don't teach this in school, but it's.
- [09:47]
Bob Safian
Well, that's the thing. We don't. We don't teach it. Right. I remember having my. Trying to explain to my kids, like, this is how a credit card works.
- [09:53]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [09:54]
Bob Safian
Like, this is what a checking account. I mean, the most basic things you just don't learn at school, you don't
- [09:59]
Vivian Tu
learn it in school. So that's my expectation, is that people don't know.
- [10:02]
Bob Safian
I mean, one of the. One of the principles behind my time at MONEY was that in some ways, like, everyone's trying to take advantage of you in Financial world, You know, Wall street brokers and insurance agents, car dealers, travel agents, credit card companies like that. If you didn't arm yourself, you know, you'd be used. Is that still part of the message?
- [10:24]
Vivian Tu
Yeah. I think we should just take an example of, you know, one of the most popular singers of our generation, Rihanna. You ever wonder why she wrote that song Bitch better have My Money? It was actually about an accountant who had stolen from her millions and millions of dollars. And you think someone like Rihanna, like, is too, like, almost too big to fail. Right. Like, she has all of these experts around her, guiding her. And so if you are not careful with the money team that you build, the experts that you put around yourself, it's very easy to get swindled even when you're Rihanna. It's very easy to, maybe not in the case of actually having someone steal from you, but like, have a financial advisor recommend products that are not necessarily the best for you, but rather the best for their commission. If I'm going in to get my car maintenance done and I don't know anything about cars and this person starts talking about, oh, well, you need this changed and that changed and da da da da da, and I panic and I'm like, sure, we should definitely do all of these things. Probably just routine maintenance that I'm getting upcharged for. So maybe I need to find a new servicer who's not going to take advantage of me. Or two, I need to get smart enough so that I can't be taken advantage of.
- [11:38]
Bob Safian
Are there particular companies that you're or areas that you're most wary about? I know you write in the book about sort of how advertising online and the messages we get come to us, but are there particular things that you focus on?
- [11:52]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, I think it's all of it. Right. Like, financial Advisors are charging 100 to 125 basis points, which is 1 to 1.25% of your entire portfolio for as long as you're with them. That can be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars over the course of your lifetime for the average person. I feel like financial advisors more often than not don't make sense because they're too expensive. You'd be better off using a robo advisor. I think in many cases, life insurance salesmen are so, so into selling you life insurance, especially of the whole variety or the more like complex variety versus term because they get paid large commissions on them. And I think it takes a lot more research than many people are willing to put in. And I hope that by writing something like this, it helps prevent people from getting taken advantage of.
- [12:45]
Bob Safian
Are you a fan of, like, the Buy Now, Pay Later? Like, is it good or is it a. Is it a tool to get us to. To overspend and get into debt?
- [12:53]
Vivian Tu
Buy Now, Pay later actually was not a terrible idea, not an evil idea at its inception. Okay? Buy Now, Pay later offered credit to, more often than not, underserved communities that could not get credit through a more traditional means. It allowed them to split up major purchases. So I'm talking appliances, a new laptop for work, things that somebody might need that they could not afford all in one go. That was the initial concept, and I think the initial concept was healthy. However, capitalism gets its, you know, its claws into you, and all of a sudden you're trying to buy Now, Pay later pay in four installments for a what? Chipotle burrito? Like, you have already consumed the burrito, and now you're gonna pay this over four months? Are you nuts? Like, if you cannot afford a burrito today, you should not be purchasing a burrito from Chipotle, having it delivered by a courier to your doorstep. Get off. Off of your butt. Go to the grocery store. Buy the ingredients you need to feed yourself. But, like, I think Buy Now, Pay later started as a good idea and has completely warped and morphed in its utilization to the point where it has become an incredibly unhealthy drain on our society. I think it is damaging people's credit now, especially now that it's being reported to the credit bureaus. And when people miss payments, they're paying interest rates just as high as credit cards.
- [14:24]
Bob Safian
What about online betting, sports betting, or prediction markets like Kalshi and Poly Market?
- [14:31]
Vivian Tu
Bob, just punch me in the throat at this point. Like, I feel like the old man yelling off of the side of the mountain into the abyss. Please stop saying trading on world events. You are not trading on world events. You are betting. There is no underlying value to you placing a trade quote, unquote, on who will become the new LSU football coach. Like, literally, what is the underlying asset you own? Nothing. You are gambling. This is the equivalent of going to a casino. And I am so sorry, but studies have literally shown that when people are in more economically trying, more desperate moments, they actually lose all sense of, like, risk assessment. And instead of being like, oh, I should save my money, they say, I'm gonna put my entire paycheck on who is going to win the national championship. And if I'm right, I'm gonna hit it big and If I'm wrong, well, I'm already down bad, so who cares?
- [15:33]
Bob Safian
It's the lottery, right? It's like, it's like putting money into the lottery. But I think, I think some people, like, they look at investing in stocks the same way. Like it doesn't feel any different to them than, you know, whatever buying a means.
- [15:46]
Vivian Tu
You don't understand investing. You don't understand investing because if you actually looked at the Monte Carlo simulation that has been run on all different types of portfolios over the last, I believe the study was actually 50 years, you would find that there was a 99% chance of you making money if you had a buy and hold strategy.
- [16:10]
Bob Safian
And just so everyone knows who's listening, a Monte Carlo simulation is like a computer generating, you know, thousands and thousands of different scenarios and, and, and giving the odds of what happens as a result of them. Yeah.
- [16:23]
Vivian Tu
I promise you, if there was a Monte Carlo simulation on any of the things that you could bet on, on Polymarket or Kalshi, you would not have those kinds of numbers of 99% odds of being able to make money. Like being a buy and hold investor is literally the easiest and laziest way to grow your wealth. And people won't do it and they call that gambling. But you're willing to bet on, you know, how likely someone's going to say the word nuclear weapon during a press conference. Like, that's insane to me.
- [16:56]
Bob Safian
I get questions from friends and family these days because the stock market is, has been at record levels about, like, is, should I be buying stocks right now? Should I invest right now? Do you think people should be wary about buying, we know, whatever, tech stocks at record highs or is it just like, listen, you can't time the market just if you have money to invest, just invest.
- [17:18]
Vivian Tu
Bob, the market valuation has been frothy. We have been overvalued for like the past five years.
- [17:25]
Bob Safian
Yes.
- [17:26]
Vivian Tu
And at every point they have said like the, you know, I feel like Michael Burry's called 23 of the last two downturns. And I think it's just silly because, yes, I am going to sit here and guarantee you at some point the market is going to crash. Are you willing to miss out on annual returns of very literally. I'm not even making these numbers up. These are the past couple years. 16%, 25%, 30%.
- [17:56]
Bob Safian
Yeah.
- [17:57]
Vivian Tu
Are you? I'm not. I'm going to keep investing. And when the market turns down and when we see some sort of correction, I'm going to buy even more Than I'm going to keep buying and buying because guess what I told you earlier, I'm 31, I'm probably retiring closer to 60, 65. I got a long way to go and I'm probably going to see a number of downturns. I'm going to see a number of corrections over the course of my lifetime.
- [18:21]
Bob Safian
Which for you is probably good. Like I think about, you know, someone my age, I'm going to be a net seller of stocks over time, right? So, so I want prices to go up. But for younger folks who are going to be net buyers over time, they want the market to go down, right? Prices going down.
- [18:35]
Vivian Tu
What's the greatest thing for the 20 year olds? A crash would be incredible for 20 year olds. We never ever, ever run from a sale. Except for the stock market. If Sephora has a sale where they're like everything 75% off, I tell you the the baddies on Internet are running to the Sephora, their lip liner, they are getting their makeup, they are getting their skincare. They're so stoked when the stock market goes on sale, all of a sudden you don't want it. Weird. Yeah, weird.
- [19:04]
Bob Safian
Vivian just puts it out there. The weird, the practical, the infuriating. So just how realistic are Gen Z complaints about their challenges? And does uncertainty make us all less rational in our financial decision making? We'll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us.
- [19:32]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [21:05]
Bob Safian
Before the break, we heard financial educator Vivian Tu talk about her role as your rich BFF and what's behind her new book entitled well Endowed. Now we talk about Gen Z's challenges, how the job market is shifting and how to know what advice you can trust online. Plus a rapid fire round on home buying versus renting, car ownership versus the uber life, the biggest financial mistakes smart people make, and more. Let's jump back in. We often hear that Gen Z doesn't feel great, great about its economic prospects right now. But unemployment is low, the economy is humming along and I hear from some folks like oh, younger people's expectations are too high. And then of course other folks say like older people just don't get it.
- [21:52]
Vivian Tu
Everything is great. The economy is at an all time high. It's not. It's at an all time high for some people and everything is great for some people. And I think this is the trouble with using the mean as our barometer of how healthy the economy is. When you hear things like oh well, GDP increased by X, Y, Z and like unemployment is low, like we have actually seen that the top 10% of Americans are accounting for half of all spending. Half. What does that tell you? It tells you the people who have money are living big. It is the greatest time ever to be a rich person, right? But the thing is is like the average person is actually doing worse when you actually take an average, a mean figure of all of these uber rich people who've gotten uber richer versus people who've gotten slowly and progressively less. Well to do where our middle class is very literally shrinking, you get a washed up figure that looks larger when in fact people are worse off. Ever since COVID there has been a dramatic K shaped divergence in how the economy quote unquote has done for white collar employees who make six figures and more who have the discretionary income to invest. Yeah, y' all got rich. And it was. It has been a great time, it has been very fun. But for the folks who were already middle class, maybe working class, things have only gotten worse. The cost of living is completely unmanageable. Rent has gone up, wages have continued to stagnate. There's nothing for them to look forward to. I completely understand why Gen Z is so deeply disenfranchised, why so many young men are turning to online online betting. I completely get it. Because if you feel like there is no hope for you to have the American dream, what's the point?
- [23:55]
Bob Safian
When you've talked about Jobs. You've talked about the idea of being up or out every couple of years, like trying to get a raise or finding a better paying employer. Does that look any different when the job market is tighter or is this like a full.
- [24:10]
Vivian Tu
Sure does. Immediately post Covid. I truly believed in the upper out method. You needed to be getting a raise or a promotion every two years or you needed to go up. If you couldn't get up, you got to get out. You got to go find somewhere else that's going to pay you and going to give you that raise, going to give you that promotion, going to give you that upward mobility. However, now we have actually, and this was not just because I felt like the vibe shift, but it was actually shown on data. We have now seen the amount that job jumpers and job stayers make converge. So it is no longer more lucrative to job jump. It is no longer more lucrative to try to find a promotion elsewhere. Right now, in a tough job market, people are literally sending out thousands of applications to get two interviews. Like, if you can find a way to grow internally, if you can still be in the top 10% of performers, you're still gonna get raises and you still will probably get promoted. It's just not as easy as it was during the Great Resignation. We have to understand that that, like, the actual environment shifts and we have to adjust ourselves to make sure that we are in the most advantageous position possible.
- [25:20]
Bob Safian
At this time of year, the start of the year, there can be this sort of, this impetus, this pressure to reset budgets and habits and goals. Can people go wrong in moments like this? What tends to backfire?
- [25:34]
Vivian Tu
Too large of a shift can backfire. So I always, I'm like, okay, this is the year I get physically fit. I eat right. And then after four days of rabbit food and working out every single day, I'm like, mm, me thinks not. I'm gonna order a taco and then sit on the couch for eight hours. I don't think that you can yo yo. Diet your way into wealth. It is truly like making a healthy lifestyle choice. Unfortunately, you have to do it kind of forever. So with money, it's not about January 1st. You're like, oh my gosh, I am going to start saving. I'm never gonna spend money again. Everything's gonna be amazing. Like, it's not that it's making little choices over the course of the year and it might take you the full year. It's every single Friday evening when you get home from work, do one thing that helps you financially Maybe that's opening up a high yield savings account. So all of a sudden the money sitting around waiting for your rainy day can actually earn you a little bit of extra interest. Maybe it's building out a plan to pay off your debt. Maybe it's organized by highest to lowest interest rate. So you're doing it most mathematically efficiently. Maybe it's okay, I am going to go change where my direct deposit is deposited. So it's not all going into my checking account. 10% is automatically going into a savings account. That'll make it easier for me. Because the hardest thing to do with money and frankly anything else in your life is willpower your way through it. Yeah, I don't have enough willpower for that today.
- [27:06]
Bob Safian
There's so much uncertainty, you know, prices, jobs, politics. Do you see that shaping how people behave with their money? Like are they less rational in financial decision making?
- [27:19]
Vivian Tu
It's like, well, if you don't think you're going to be able to afford a home or you don't think you're going to be able to go on that actual vacation you want, it becomes like the Estee Lauder lipstick index of oh well, I can't afford a new TV so I'm going to go to the drugstore and get myself a little lipstick or I'm going to dollar dribble for a little coffee. I'm going to do this. I'm going to like, you're spending on things that you will not ultimately derive true happiness out of true pleasure. TR joy just to like get a dopamine hit. When you are in a position of uncertainty, it is more important than ever to have a plan because if you just leave it up to like hope, it's not going to get you there.
- [28:01]
Bob Safian
I got to get into the AI discussion. Lots of folks are using AI tools these days for financial decisions, budgeting, investing, even taxes. But a lot of surveys say that for a lot of these folks it's led them to some bad decisions sometimes. Where do you think AI can genuinely help with money? Where should we be more wary?
- [28:23]
Vivian Tu
Well, I want to be very clear that none of the AI LLMs like the, you know, the chatgpts of the world, like none of them are financially licensed not to like, you know, be so self serving. But like, that is in part why I built out my venture called ask Dolly. Ask Dolly.com, check it out. We are actually an SEC registered RIA and if you ask Ask Dolly, too complex of a question that is not knowledge based but rather personal based. We transfer you to one of our CFPs.
- [29:00]
Bob Safian
I just want to say RIA's registered investment advisor. CFP is certified financial planner.
- [29:05]
Vivian Tu
Oh, sorry, guys. Yeah, I just, like, we saw that AI is the next iteration of financial, like, exploration, and it really does help people on their financial journeys. They get to ask the embarrassing questions that they're too ashamed to ask. But I don't think that AI can operate independently of a little bit of human touch. And frankly, someone who is licensed to provide you financial advice because it is so personal and there are so many factors to take into account.
- [29:33]
Bob Safian
I mean, there are a lot of people, online creators like yourself, who offer financial advice. Not all of them are licensed or registered or. Right, well, and how do you know if something you come across on a social platform or online, that it's. That it's reputable, that it's worthwhile? I mean, we get this with health advice. We get with money advice.
- [29:58]
Vivian Tu
What I say is, even with my content, if you see something and you're like, I wonder if this is true, you need to be doing your own research. Watch my video and then go online and check, can I find three reputable sources that back up what she's saying? You'll always be able to, because I actually research my topics. But, like, go look at articles from the Wall Street Journal, from the Financial Times, from Barron's, from law firms or. Or banks or all, like, compare them. We have unfettered access now, so there is no excuse for falling for a trap. Like, you actually have to do your
- [30:37]
Bob Safian
own research and you have to understand how. How the people who you're engaging with, how they make their money.
- [30:43]
Vivian Tu
Exactly, exactly.
- [30:45]
Bob Safian
I mean, are there things you've learned as a creator yourself that you think people don't really understand about how creators make money?
- [30:53]
Vivian Tu
Yeah, 100%. Like, you wonder why all of those lifestyle influencers were pushing Stanley Cups and all of the little charms that then go on the Stanley cup and then all of the, like, they make an affiliate commission on the back end. She doesn't love her Stanley Cup. She wants you to buy one so she gets money. I always am very, very honest when I do brand partnerships. I'm like, these keep my content free. This is why you don't have to pay a subscription fee for this. This is why I can do all of this editorial work unpaid, is because I make money. But at the end of the day, whether or not you get the High Yield savings account, I recommend you should just get one anyway.
- [31:32]
Bob Safian
Are you saying that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck don't love Dunkin Donuts? Is that what you're saying?
- [31:40]
Vivian Tu
I'm saying that I have tasted Dunkin Donuts coffee. It's good, but it's not the only coffee out there.
- [31:48]
Bob Safian
So I'd love to ask you a few rapid fire questions if I can get your advice on things. All right, so what's the biggest money mistake that smart people make?
- [31:58]
Vivian Tu
Mm, I think it's just lifestyle inflation, especially for people who start to make more money. You make a little bit more money, you spend a little bit more money, you make a little bit more money, you spend a little bit more money. And then at the end of the year, you're like, how come I don't have any additional money saved? All of us fall victim to the comparison trap where we compare our lives with everybody we see on social media and suddenly you think that if you don't have X, y and Z, you have a bad life. You don't need to be spending on stuff just to impress other people.
- [32:27]
Bob Safian
All right, next question. If I could focus on just one thing financially this year, what should it be?
- [32:34]
Vivian Tu
Trying to increase your income. Because my mentor told me this one line and it's stuck in my brain forever. She said, you can only save as much as you earn, but you can always earn more money. We talk so much like, cut out the avocado toast. Don't buy the latte. Don't get the little treat. Imagine how many little joys in your life you would have to cut out to save $5,000. Now imagine how easy it is to ask for a $5,000 raise. Frankly, people get much larger raises than that. It is so much easier for you to make more money than to try and cut every little thing out.
- [33:13]
Bob Safian
All right, next question. How much time should I spend on optimizing my credit card rewards?
- [33:21]
Vivian Tu
Not too much, because one credit card points are devaluing by the day. They make a new rule every three months and they get worse. Sure, maybe. Will you lose a couple extra points here and there? Yeah. But the time you save and the less mind, like mind space you're giving to it is probably worth it.
- [33:40]
Bob Safian
Home ownership, rent or buy in 2026. How do we decide?
- [33:45]
Vivian Tu
This is an insane question. Because real estate is so geographically focused, I cannot sit here and be like, you should Ren or by. I don't know where you live. And in some cases the answer is different based on where you live. What I do know is that it is currently cheaper to rent them by in 70% of all major metros and frankly, we should all be looking at our own lifestyles and asking ourselves a couple questions. One, do we plan on being here for longer than five to seven years at a minimum? If not, you're not buying. Are you in a position in your career to potentially have the opportunity to make massive leaps and bounds for a little bit of flexibility? So is there a chance you might be transferred to the Tokyo office? You being able to be flexible might be the reason why you get that position versus somebody else. And having that flex might help you. So renters win. But there is something to be said about building equity. Ask yourself this question. Do you want to build that equity in your primary residence or would it be smarter to maybe just buy an investment property somewhere that is a little cheaper and then continuing to rent your primary residence? If you are planning on building out a family and you really want to paint the walls and you want to have the nursery and you want to do all of these things, maybe renting is not the right move. Maybe you want to buy again. We go back to that. Five to seven years at a minimum. Because the fixed costs of buying a home are very expensive. You have mortgage origination fees and you got to pay some broker fees. You got to pay fee fifum. If you're going to pay all that, you ought to be staying there for at least a little bit.
- [35:18]
Bob Safian
All right. Car ownership?
- [35:20]
Vivian Tu
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Bob Safian
Lease or buy or Uber only.
- [35:24]
Vivian Tu
It's up to you. I actually don't own a car. My husband and I actually tinkered around with the idea of getting one. But I think from ease of not having to pay for parking, not having to pay for gas, not having to pay for insurance, I am not commuting so much that I would actually need that. I split my time Miami and New York. In New York there is ample public transportation. In Miami, I largely work from home and if I do need to go somewhere, I can call a ride share. But I just think that like you have to factor in all of the costs, not just the cost of buying the car or leasing the car. It's the insurance, it's the gas, it's the maintenance, it's I want a car. Every time I need to go buy groceries, I'm like, wow, would be so nice to have a trunk. But I think about, you know, all the money that I'm saving, I'll just order Instacart. Like I think you have to think about how much you're driving. So for folks who need to commute for work, that's a really big question. But also, if you are trying to buy something, you need to be willing to drive that thing into the ground. If you are leasing and you want to have something new every other year, great. But like, just know that, like, you might be paying more for that. So it's, it's all. It's up to you. Personal finance is personal. I really do believe that.
- [36:41]
Bob Safian
So what does it mean to be rich? Is it a number?
- [36:47]
Vivian Tu
It's not a number. I think having true wealth is having the ability to make decisions where finance isn't a consideration factor. The greatest asset that rich people have is like, not having to think about money. So when you are in the position to be like, I can wait because I don't need this gig, or I, I want to, you know, take, wait for a different job, even if it doesn't pay as well, I want something that I really believe in. When you have that time, freedom, when you have that choice freed, I think that's truly being rich.
- [37:17]
Bob Safian
Should I live for today or save for tomorrow?
- [37:21]
Vivian Tu
Why not do both? Bob, I think you can still have a little bit of fun today, but also make sure that you're taking care of tomorrow. You. Because I know so many people are like, well, an asteroid is going to hit the Earth and it's not going to matter anyway. Sure, okay, but what if it doesn't? What if the asteroid does not hit us and then you're 60, 65, and you don't have a dollar saved, which, by the way, one in four Americans has $0 saved for retirement. If you have nothing, you're going to really regret it. You're going to be older, maybe all your friends are retired, and now you're going to be working until you die. And that sucks.
- [37:55]
Bob Safian
Looking ahead to 2026, do you have one piece of personal finance advice you'd give to almost anyone? Something to wrap this up?
- [38:06]
Vivian Tu
Be very, very choosy with who you decide to spend the rest of your life with, because your partner is the biggest financial decision you will ever make. Life is so hard already, you cannot afford to have a hater at home. It has been shown in studies that people with conscientious partners, on average every single year, make 4% more. This is someone who understands you when you're busy at work, understands that you may not be as attentive to the dishes. This is someone who encourages you to take those big swings. This is person who backs you, who's your number one cheerleader. And I didn't. You didn't hear me say this person has no debt. You didn't hear me say, this person is very, very wealthy and comes from, you know, an oligarch family. What you heard me say is, you want a partner who understands you, who values a dollar the same way you do. I have a husband that, when we met, he made so much more money than me. He never made me feel less than for making less than he did. And. And now I am the breadwinner in our family, and you have never seen someone more proud. He is my number one fan. He has been my number one supporter, and I think that I spend the entire day fighting the rest of the world. I get to come home and I. I have someone to fall into and just someone who I know is going to be there for me, and I think we should all have that.
- [39:26]
Bob Safian
Well, Vivian, congratulations, because not everyone can find that. So, yeah, you know, I found him
- [39:31]
Vivian Tu
in the basement of a dive bar. So you can find love in a hopeless place.
- [39:35]
Bob Safian
You never know. You never know.
- [39:36]
Vivian Tu
You never know.
- [39:37]
Bob Safian
Well, Vivian, this was great. Thanks. Thanks so much for doing it.
- [39:41]
Vivian Tu
Thank you so much for having me.
- [39:44]
Bob Safian
Gotta say, I have a lot of heart for Vivian, and not just because I was also running a personal finance media platform when I was her age. I love that she boils down the complexity that hinders so many financial decisions into their essence. And I love that she's willing to be vulnerable, from her own car ownership decisions to her relationship with her husband. My time working in personal finance was so useful in part because it trained me to prioritize what's really most important, what's worth spending on or investing on, and what's a distraction. Whether we're talking about our personal finances or our businesses, building the right habits, asking the right questions, and zeroing in on what matters most, that really is the road to value creation, whether you count that in dollars or share value or in human relationships. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a. Wait. What? Original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Trow. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashumaku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Malad. For more visit RapidResponseshow.