← Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
The Wild, Wild West. All right, we're live. Gabe Polsky, man. Thanks for coming.
- [00:05]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [00:06]
A
Thank you for coming. I. I wanted to bring you here. I. I saw your documentary a while back. I got a little. Little screener copy. Honestly, I said, I'm not just fluffing you. I thought it was one of the best things I'd watched in a really long time. So the man who Saves the World, that's it? Yeah, question mark. Not the man who Saves the World? No, question mark. That's about a guy who didn't drop the nuclear bomb or something.
- [00:27]
B
Yeah, yeah, that. That's another film.
- [00:30]
A
Yeah. Yours is the man who Saves the World, question mark. Which. Dude, it's. I swear to God. I, like. I. Brandon, our mutual friend from Rough out, sent it to me and I was like, all right. You know, and I'm. I'm like, I'm pretty, like, precious with my time, so if someone's like, hey, do you want to watch this two hour thing? I'm usually like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll watch it. But I read the tagline. I'm like, dang, that sounds kind of cool, dude. One night I just. I saw through it, so congrats on that. That's awesome.
- [00:55]
B
Yeah, it's. It's 85 minutes. Because I know that, you know, the two hours. Two hours scares people.
- [01:00]
A
But, dude, now I feel like now documentaries are six hours.
- [01:03]
B
Yeah, it's. It's murder mystery doc things long. It's.
- [01:06]
A
I know, but the murder mystery doc, I'm telling you, man, I'm not. I don't want to start by on a negative note, but, like, dude, I. I would really like to move back from the six hour twisty murder doc. It's like, just. I don't need to watch this for six hours. Just give me an hour and 20. Hit me with a twist at the end.
- [01:22]
B
I agree. I'm the same way.
- [01:23]
A
It's like a full work day.
- [01:25]
B
Yeah.
- [01:25]
A
I'm signing up to watch this lady get murdered. It's like, dude, hit me with the facts.
- [01:30]
B
I know.
- [01:30]
A
Give me the facts.
- [01:31]
B
Stretching, you know?
- [01:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, true. But no, I thought your. I thought your documentary was honestly, fantastic. And, and just to like, I don't know. I don't want to give the whole thing away, but just to recap, I've. I try to explain it to people and I. I, like, I always sound crazy. It's about a guy who, by the guy alone, could have been. What's his name?
- [01:49]
B
Patrick McCollum.
- [01:50]
A
Patrick McCollum. I mean, obviously, it could have just done one on that guy alone. His life is crazy. He was a peacemaker or, you know, he. He just does everything. But he got convinced somehow that he was the center of some ancient indigenous prophecy that he was going to. Was it save the world or bring everyone back together and thus save the world by saving the Amazon.
- [02:12]
B
That's right. I mean, the second part. Yeah. So. But. But basically, these indigenous elders from the Amazon came to this guy at a peace gathering in India, and they said to him, we think you're this guy in our prophecy that we've had for hundreds of years. So different tribes of the Amazon, they all kind of got together and identified this guy and said, we think you're this guy. And initially, he's just like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just kind of a regular guy. I don't think I'm the guy. And they basically, for eight years, kept coming to him and. And. And saying, you know, when are you going to come and fulfill this prophecy of ours? Is he going to come and unite the tribes of the Amazon and essentially save the Amazon and restore the Earth? And after many years, he's just like, all right, like, I guess I'll, like, do what I can and go down there. And first of all, how.
- [03:04]
A
That's crazy. He was able to fight that off. I would immediately be like, yes, Getting hit with the chosen one is my personal fantasy. So that's crazy. He got to live that out. And it's nuts that he tr. He was like, no, no, no. Obviously you're the chosen one. If you're gonna be like, no, I'm not the chosen one. It's like, you're definitely a chosen one.
- [03:20]
B
Yeah.
- [03:21]
A
So he was right. But, dude. But then you've. So I'm like, okay, that's. First of all, that's a. That's like, kind of a wild concept. Then you get into that guy's life, and it's like, he. It's. That guy was. I've never even, like, heard of or seen a guy like that.
- [03:34]
B
Yeah.
- [03:35]
A
I mean, most talented guy I think I've ever seen.
- [03:37]
B
Yeah, no, that. That's kind of what drew me in. Honestly, the prophecy part of it was just, to me, just so bonkers that I'm just like, this. This is. This guy's a artist. This is crazy. You know, And I was, you know, incredibly skeptical of it. And then ultimately I. You know, first of all, I started doing a lot of research. I hired A private investigator, you know, to look into this guy. You know, he was saying he's best friends with Jane Goodall, and I. I didn't really believe him there.
- [04:04]
A
I forgot about that. He was buddy. Buddy with Jake.
- [04:06]
B
Yeah. And then. And then I, you know, reached out to her personally and got an interview, and she said this guy's the most fascinating guy she's ever met. And, you know, one of. And so obviously that vouch for him, but really what kind of drew me in was how weird and amazing this guy's life was. He was like the most fascinating guy I've ever met. He's, you know, he's a carney. He was a jewelry designer to, I guess, you know, Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, and Russell Crowe. He was, you know, at first a carney. So he basically at. At 12 years old, he, like, joined the carnival for like, four years because his. His brother got cut in half.
- [04:50]
A
Yes. Okay. Yes.
- [04:51]
B
And his parents.
- [04:52]
A
It's crazy.
- [04:53]
B
Yeah.
- [04:53]
A
I don't want to laugh at his brother getting cut in half, but. Yeah. His brother got cut in half.
- [04:56]
B
Yeah. And so he. His parents had to go basically take care of his brother. So he was left kind of on his own.
- [05:01]
A
Yes.
- [05:02]
B
At 12 years old. And. And so what he decided to do was join the carnival, and there he kind of met all these freaks and married a prostitute, which isn't in the film. But. And, And.
- [05:14]
A
And then he's like a mythical guy.
- [05:16]
B
I swear, it's like Forrest Gump. It's like Zelig. It's like the guy has literally done everything. You know, he's. And so, yeah, I. I just felt like him alone as a character study. I don't know if you. You sort of like character study of movies or documentaries. You know, just a fat. Just him alone, I knew would be kind of fascinating. And then on top of that, you've got this whole prophecy. You've got, you know, indigenous. You know, going into this sort of indigenous world that, you know, most people have no idea.
- [05:49]
A
Yeah.
- [05:50]
B
About, you know, and learning about, you know, their wisdom and connection and all that. And having this guy kind of fulfill this prophecy. It's just like the strangest.
- [05:59]
A
Yeah.
- [06:00]
B
Story.
- [06:00]
A
And you kind of followed him around more. So kind of like fact check. The guy, which I. I could pick up on towards the middle, towards the end of the doc, was pissing the guy off when you were fact checking him, and he was just like, well, you don't believe me, dude. You don't believe me. I'm the chosen one to save the world. So, yeah, I don't want to give it too much away, but it was. Dude. The documentary is fantastic. This episode is brought to you by Amazon MGM Studios new movie Mercy, only in theaters January 23rd. Set in the near future, trials are run by artificial intelligence that has access to every camera phone and database. Matt, that's so spooky.
- [06:34]
B
Whoa.
- [06:35]
A
Chris Pratt plays a detective on trial and he has 90 minutes to prove his innocence to an AI judge played by Rebecca Ferguson. Directed by Timur Beckman. Bed off. That's good. You've got to experience this movie on the big screen, especially in IMAX 3D. Check out mercy movie.com to learn more. Rated PG 13. Rated PG 13. So, so how does that work? Like, when you want to do a documentary, you just, I guess you just got a hot tip somehow. And then you got to go, like, you just follow the guy around, like, what was it like? I mean, I, I guess you weren't with him all day, every day. When I, When I see a documentary, for some reason, I imagined you're just like, living, eating, and sleeping in the same quarters with the guy. I was gonna say sleep with the guy. You're sleeping in the same quarters with the guy, but it's like you're just kind of popping in, recording, popping out, you know, going back and forth. What is that like, after a certain time, do you guys become, like, super close or is it just kind of like all bizarre?
- [07:29]
B
Yeah, well, everyone is different. I mean, this one, I actually really did sleep at his house twice, which was pretty wild. I mean, his house, he's got two places, one in Moraga, California, and one in New Mexico. And they're both kind of really wild. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, in this instance, you know, it was kind of on and off and, you know, you, you just, you know, I, I was kind of documenting him and following him, but it was, it was really kind of on and on and off, you know, so I would shoot with him for, for a few days and then, and then like, you know, maybe a couple months would pass. I would sort of shape the story a little bit more. Then, know what, you know, something else is coming up. Then I would go and, and shoot that, you know, until I kind of, you know, was trying to wrap it all up and say, what? Where is this going? When is this going to end? You know, how long was actually the most.
- [08:23]
A
And you filmed for how long?
- [08:25]
B
You said about three years, you know, on and off.
- [08:27]
A
Dang. So, yeah, that's got to be nerve wracking. Especially if you're filming film and filming. You're like, all right, come on, go meet these guys, go do the stuff.
- [08:33]
B
Yeah.
- [08:34]
A
How did you handle kind of like trying to keep them on a timeline with that?
- [08:38]
B
Well, I would constantly ask, like, where is this happening? What's happening next? Is the prophecy, you know, going to be fulfilled? Like, you know, in our culture, you know, we're constantly, you know, we want results, you know, we want. And plus, like, I don't want to be shooting this for like 10 years. Like, I've got other things to do and whatever. So, yeah, I would be, you know, putting a little bit of pressure on, on him about where is this going? And that was kind of the most nerve wracking part of this particular documentary that I made was just that it was so unknown where this was going and I had no. I don't know if you've ever been in a situation where you get involved in something, you have just no idea where it's going and you think you're crazy. Why am I doing this? I couldn't even.
- [09:23]
A
Like a marriage or something.
- [09:24]
B
A marriage thing is so hard to. Yeah, exactly.
- [09:28]
A
Yeah. A little idea. No, A project like that would be. It would drive me insane.
- [09:33]
B
Yeah. To not know I was literally on the verge of insanity. Like.
- [09:36]
A
Yeah. Especially because, you know, I don't know if you've staked it yourself or you have financial backers. You're doing this and it sounds awesome and you're like, fuck, dude, come on.
- [09:45]
B
Well, this one I was kind of on my own because as you said earlier, you know, pitching this story to like Netflix and HBO and places like that, I mean, it's just so far out and so weird. They're not making this kind of stuff, you know, I haven't seen anything.
- [10:01]
A
Yeah. I haven't seen anything like that before.
- [10:02]
B
And so I even going to investors, you know, they're just look at me like, what the hell are you talking about? This is too weird. You're crazy. And so I, I was kind of on my own at a certain point when I decided to commit to this, you know, I realized that I was kind of going to be on my own here. So that, that put a lot of even more pressure.
- [10:27]
A
Yeah.
- [10:28]
B
Financial also, like, one of my biggest fears is like wasting my time, you know?
- [10:33]
A
Yeah.
- [10:34]
B
If you spend three years of life, like, what have you been doing? You know, you talk to your friends and family like, well, what are you making now?
- [10:40]
A
Tough one to explain.
- [10:41]
B
I'm just like, yeah, this guy, he's in the middle of a prophecy. They think they're like, dude, dude, you're.
- [10:48]
A
Out of your mind and you got.
- [10:50]
B
To go see somebody. And so it's been hard to kind of. But I did see a vision about this film. No matter how crazy it was, I knew that somehow I could weave all these really interesting things together into something really meaningful and funny and really bizarre. It's like a trip.
- [11:13]
A
Yeah.
- [11:14]
B
This whole thing's like, just going into, like, a psychedelic, kind of weird trip. But that also, I think, you know, gives you a lot to think about afterwards.
- [11:25]
A
Yeah. And especially. Yeah. And again, it kind of does, too. And I'm actually reading a book right now, speaking of the Amazon, about the first conquistadors who, like, sailed or, like, went down, I guess, in a canoe or whatever, navigated the entire Amazon River. And the author went down there because he always likes to visit, like, the historical sites or whatever he's writing about. And he did say. He said the Amazon in particular is like. He's like. It's literally like a magical world. And he's like, you know, there's obviously a lot of. It's been, like, destroyed, but he was basically saying that if we do lose, like, the rainforest, we're kind of. We're kind of fucked.
- [11:59]
B
Yeah.
- [12:00]
A
Because it's like. It, like, retains moisture, and if you knock down the trees and plant different trees, they don't retain the same amount of moisture, then it gets hotter and blah, blah, blah. But so hopefully it's true. Hopefully he does the thing. Because it's like, I don't know. Again, no spoilers. But I was like, you watch it and you go, maybe he did. Maybe he did the thing. Yeah, yeah.
- [12:18]
B
I mean, you know, that was the whole thing. I mean, I would go to these. To these gatherings, you know, where he was essentially uniting tribes of the Amazon, you know. And, you know, there would be these sort of smallish gatherings, you know, there'd be tribes from various parts of the Amazon and. And, you know, let's just say about 100 people, you know, and, you know, I'd be looking at this, and they'd be doing, you know, indigenous ceremonial things with feathers, with fire and all kinds of things, and connecting with spirits and so on. But from an outsider perspective, you're just looking at this thinking, you know, what the hell am I looking at? You know, this is so weird. This is about saving the world. Is he uniting the tribes here? But then I started thinking to myself, how does any business deal, or any. Even. Jesus Christ, for instance, when he was doing his sermons and starting out and talking to people. It probably didn't look like anything. It's just him talking to people and doing about some weird stuff. And, you know, no one, no one would have said, this is the guy. He's gonna, yeah, that's happening. Everything happens. Even on a big things that end up having these ripple effects that huge, they start off really small and they probably don't look like anything that special. Yeah, well, that was when you guys started your podcast. You know, it's just you guys in a room and then it becomes.
- [13:40]
A
Yeah, far from glamorous.
- [13:42]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [13:43]
A
Yeah, that was the, the meetups in the hotels where it's just like a 20 person meet up in a hotel convention center. That was kind of crack. That was cracking me up. He's like, bro, wait, this is the big meeting. I will say what I liked about him too, is that like, he would do those meetings, you know, it doesn't look great. There's just a couple people strewn. And he would get out and be like, that was awesome. Yeah, that was what we needed to do.
- [14:05]
B
That's exactly. He's like this insane optimist. And every time I would talk to him, it would just be like, literally, he just did the biggest thing ever. And I'd be like, were we at the same place? Like, what is going on here?
- [14:19]
A
Yeah, no.
- [14:19]
B
I don't know if. Have you met people like that that are just like so positive and so, you know, almost in slightly delusional way, but it becomes kind of contagious and weirdly self fulfilling?
- [14:31]
A
Yeah, it is. I, yeah, I, I, on my good days, I can kind of do that myself a little bit. But then, you know, I, I slip all the time. I'll just go anywhere to do a show and be like, this is it, I fucked up, I'm done. This is, I'm gonna freak out on stage, I'm gonna walk off. Yeah, Happens to me like 40% of the time. I'll be in the middle of starting a set and I go, well, I'm gonna have to leave and everyone's gonna be furious and I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna move back in with my parents. I'm on stage, this is the first like seven minutes, and I'm like, I'll just move it back in with my parents. It's no big deal. But, but yeah, I try to persevere. But there is something nice about that, especially now where, like, I feel like, like intense pessimism and negativity is almost like in, in a way where it's like, it's almost cool to be like, world's ending, dude. We're, we're screwed. Everything's done. It's like, I don't, I don't like that stuff, honestly.
- [15:19]
B
Yeah, I don'. Dude, it's such a fight to stay positive, you know? But it's so important.
- [15:25]
A
Yeah, man.
- [15:26]
B
You know, I mean, well, it's like, how do you do everything, dude? Once you start that negative talk to yourself, you're, you're, it's really bad, dude.
- [15:34]
A
And, and yes, that's, it's literally like the worst thing you can do. But there's nobody, in my opinion, there's like no emphasis put on the responsibility of not being a gigantic bummer.
- [15:44]
B
Yeah.
- [15:44]
A
Because if you ever have like a, have you ever had like a. You know, I remember having like regular jobs. 90 of the people I've worked with were like massive, just chronic bummers. Every single person I've worked a regular job with shows up and they're like, sucks.
- [15:59]
B
Yeah.
- [16:00]
A
No other way. This is what it is.
- [16:02]
B
Yeah.
- [16:02]
A
Just show up and be like, another day here. This ass place. I hate this. But you're like, dude, I just, I just got here. Can we just chill a little bit? So, yeah, I mean, I wonder what people would need though, because I don't know, I feel like without religion, I don't know what else could possibly stoke somebody day in and day out like that, you know what I mean?
- [16:21]
B
It's somehow a mindset. I mean, even like, you know, making documentaries, it seems like the greatest thing ever. Oh my God. You get to do. Tell that story and this one and that one, but on a daily basis, the grind of it and the pressures, you know, it's so easy to get into that negative.
- [16:37]
A
Yeah. Have you ever been, have you ever been tempted?
- [16:39]
B
Even the best things, I mean, they should teach it in schools, you know, about kind of the art of positivity because that's all related to this mental health.
- [16:50]
A
You need it.
- [16:50]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [16:51]
A
You need that. The problem is it's being delivered by school teachers who can be a little negative and nasty. You know what I mean? It's tough if you're like a 27 year old lady being paid 30 grand a year. It's tough to get the kids and be like, guys, life is awesome. Life is great. You guys just got to believe in yourselves. Teachers. That's one job I would never, I would like to have. But it's. I don't know if I could do it, man. Especially, like, it'd be one thing if you had, like, other sources of income, but if you're just living on that, like, the teachers I've talked to, apparently they just get crushed by the administration because they're like, you have to do it this way. None of it makes sense. But this is that the way we're going to be funded. And every parent is like, dude, you suck my kids. Right? You suck. Blah, blah, blah.
- [17:33]
B
So with coaching, too. Yeah, it's.
- [17:35]
A
Yeah.
- [17:35]
B
Similar about the parents getting involved.
- [17:39]
A
This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. The big game is right around the corner. Once championship Sunday hits, there's only three more football games this season, which means you're running out of chances to get it right this football season. And there's no better place to get it right than prize picks. Oh, yeah. With player picks and team picks, you can pick how many yards the QB will throw or who will join bad bunny on st. Don't do that, Bill. Bill, don't do that. No intense zoom ups, dude. Bill, no intense zoom ups, dude. It's out of our contract. I don't like the way I look. I don't like the way I look. And what you're doing is. That's not right. It's like an up guarantee. What? I don't like it. That's literally like doing an upset on a lake. Guys. Download prize picks app today and use code Drench to get $50 off in lineups or start it over. No, no. What specific players you think you're going to do? Really well. I think Christopher McAffrey is going to continue to do well. He dominated. Download the Prize picks app today and use Code Drench. Get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's Code Drench. Get $50 in Lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks. It's good to be right. Oh, man, I love that. I, I, I don't know. It what, like, the pressure for coaching. I don't know if that's like. Is that like scholarship pressure? Like, I played sports, my parents were just like, we're happy you're out of the house. They would show up and be like, great. Yeah, zero points.
- [19:08]
B
Mine didn't show up that much, but yeah.
- [19:10]
A
Oh, man, I'm sorry.
- [19:13]
B
No, no, no, no. But I'm saying, I'm just saying, you know, I, I didn't. Sometimes it's a good thing, you know, if your parents aren't there every single.
- [19:22]
A
I Prefer them not to be there.
- [19:23]
B
Yeah.
- [19:24]
A
Honestly, I didn't. I didn't like, if they came, it was like. Sucks.
- [19:27]
B
Yeah.
- [19:28]
A
Then like, you know, I would ride the bench for most. There's nothing worse than your parents showing up and you're on the bench the whole game and you're like, I'm sorry I brought you guys here.
- [19:34]
B
I know. I agree. That happened in college a couple times, you know, when I played.
- [19:39]
A
You played college?
- [19:40]
B
Well, I played college hockey. What, at Yale? Yeah.
- [19:43]
A
Damn, dude. What the. What position?
- [19:46]
B
I was a forward.
- [19:48]
A
What?
- [19:48]
B
Yeah. What the hell?
- [19:50]
A
I didn't know you're a hockey player.
- [19:51]
B
Yeah.
- [19:52]
A
You don't strike. I mean, again, I'm not saying you're not like rough and tumble, but you don't strike me as a college hockey player. How'd you keep all your teeth?
- [20:00]
B
Yeah, we. We wore masks in college, you know.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah. Okay, fair enough.
- [20:04]
B
When you play it professionally, then the masks come off.
- [20:07]
A
But why?
- [20:09]
B
I don't know. I don't know why they. They kept that rule. Maybe they wanted people's faces to stay.
- [20:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:16]
B
Until. Until you play pro.
- [20:18]
A
Those time to take the mask off and show you show that beautiful hockey face.
- [20:22]
B
For advertising. They need to see the faces.
- [20:24]
A
True. For the game. Yeah, yeah.
- [20:26]
B
If you're wearing a mask, it's not. You can't relate to the players.
- [20:29]
A
Yeah, that's true. So what was the hockey grind like growing up? Because you must have played.
- [20:32]
B
That's tough.
- [20:33]
A
Yeah. That's a sport you play like early in the morning.
- [20:36]
B
Yeah, it was. It was, you know, like. Like anything. Just such a huge commitment. But to find ice time in the more oftentimes, like when you're a little kid, you have to wake up at five in the morning and.
- [20:46]
A
Yeah.
- [20:47]
B
For school and stuff like that, I think a couple times a week.
- [20:49]
A
Damn.
- [20:50]
B
It was. It was, you know, just like. It was just a huge commitment your whole life, you know, you want to be a great player, you want to play.
- [20:58]
A
Did you. Did you cop the scholarship to Yale?
- [21:00]
B
They don't, you know, they. They give financial aid, so if they look at your income and, and decide what. What they to do with you, you know, they're not allowed to just. I don't know about now, but back then, you know, that's how they did it. But I got. I got offered a couple scholarships from like Notre Dame and dang other places, but.
- [21:20]
A
So you're nasty.
- [21:22]
B
I was.
- [21:23]
A
You don't. You don't want to tee your own horn. I get it. So how many documentaries have you done.
- [21:28]
B
I've done. I've directed four, and then, you know, made five.
- [21:33]
A
Okay.
- [21:33]
B
Yeah.
- [21:34]
A
What was your favorite one, you think?
- [21:37]
B
You know. Well, this one, they've all been very different, but one that's kind of near and dear. We're talking about hockey. Well, I've actually done several that are somewhat hockey related, but I really love In Search of Greatness, which is about the greatest athletes of all time and about the nature of greatness told from the perspective of the greatest athletes. And it's really about kind of creativity and about how most of the greatest athletes, from Gretzky to Tom Brady to Messi, they're not what we think they are. They're. They're actually on a spectrum of, like, athletic ability and speed and this. They're actually, like, worse than the average athlete's strength and speed. Gretzky. Let's take, for instance, you know, I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, he. He was. He was like an anomaly. Could barely bench press anything. He wasn't very necessarily fast. He wasn't. Didn't have the hardest shot. He was. But he was.
- [22:37]
A
Just.
- [22:38]
B
Because of these weaknesses, he had to figure out, you know, another way to play the game. And he just, you know, was the greatest ever by far, you know, because he had to come up with these comp. You know, compensation tactics. So he. He just crazy thought. He thought faster. The same thing with Tom Brady, if you look at his combine score. Whatever. Yeah. So what I was trying to argue is that I think we. We see sport in a. In the wrong way. We were not looking at the right things, you know, and it's. For me, it's all about creativity and sort of what we do with our weaknesses and that we can actually reinvent our fields by thinking about sport or whatever it is in a completely different way. You look at artists, it's the same thing. In order to reinvent something, you have to. It's not what you think.
- [23:33]
A
I know what you're saying. It's not all about the 40 time. It's not all about blah, blah, blah.
- [23:36]
B
It's totally the opposite. It's about the mind and about creativity.
- [23:40]
A
That's pretty cool. Did you see the movie Inside out too? I don't know if you've watched that with your kids.
- [23:45]
B
I don't know.
- [23:46]
A
I don't think I. Dude, Inside out, too.
- [23:48]
B
About emotions.
- [23:49]
A
Yes, it's all about emotions and stuff, but there's a part in that where, you know, the. It's all about the kid having emotions. Emotions get out of control. And they got to find some, like, equilibrium. And that's kind of like the whole movie, basically. But there's a part in the end of Inside out too, where the girl. Josh, you've seen this movie. This girl's having a tough time. Her emotions are all out of whack. She's obviously sitting puberty, too. So there's, like, new emotions. And there's a part where, like, it all fight. Like, the thing you're talking about finally clicks. And it shows that, like, she's all, like, gung ho, like, I gotta be the hardest and fastest. And then, like, she just gained some sort of peace in herself. And there's a thing where she's, like, skating serenely through the ice, playing hockey. And I started to cry. Yeah, it was just such a beautiful. It stuck with me for three days. Just. I was like, God, man, that was it. Because there's so much going on in her life. And then she just was, like, quiet inside her head. And she was able to just, like, part through, like, having fun rather than, like, gnashing her teeth.
- [24:40]
B
That's exactly what the point of this movie is. In fact, my greatest memories of maybe in life are, like, playing hockey in an outdoor rink, just skating on my own and just like that, enjoying kind of the feeling of it. And, you know, it's magical.
- [24:57]
A
Yeah.
- [24:57]
B
And that's what the essence of. Of life is in sport, too, is just this free. This feeling of freedom and being able to experiment and. And it's the same with, I'm sure, comedy, too. It's all about just that period of experimentation and just. Yeah, unstructuredness about it, you know?
- [25:17]
A
Yeah.
- [25:18]
B
That creates.
- [25:19]
A
Well, yeah, once you get in your head, it sucks. It becomes a nightmare. If you get in your head, like, it becomes ritual.
- [25:23]
B
I got to do this. I got to do that, you know.
- [25:27]
A
No, I was talking to God. I'm blanking on the guy's name. Kirk Fox. Who's a guy? Kirk Fox is a comedian. He's in la. And, you know, I was at the Mothership, and I was just, like, in one of my little funks where I'm like. I had, like, started doing newer material. I had to work out the hour, and I was just, like, you know, possessed. Being like, this has to be good. And I would just go on stage and I could. I could feel crowds being like, ugh. Because I'd come out like, hey, guys. And they'd be like, you know, this is. That's not what this is about. About. You should be Having fun and making us have fun. And I got off and I was, or I was about to go on and maybe I was between shows and I was just like talking to him like, I don't know, I'm just like fucked up right now about all my stuff. And he was like, he's like looked at me and he's like, who cares? Like, just go have fun. Stop being, you know, such a simple, such a dumb thing. But I like at the moment it hit me and I was like, God damn it, you're right. I went on after that and had a blast. And I was like, yeah, I was doing a disservice to everybody else by being so self centered and being like, no, I have to be the best. This needs to be great. It's like literally a scourge.
- [26:23]
B
Like it's fall into that crazy trap, you know. But it kind of comes back to what we were talking about earlier about positivity and, and just kind of having fun with things, you know, and trying to find that somehow because you get pulled back into that seriousness of the negativity and you know what I'm saying? And yeah, you can't.
- [26:44]
A
Oh, dude, it's. It's literally the worst.
- [26:46]
B
You can't perform either as well, you know.
- [26:48]
A
No, it's, it affects all things. I'm. I'm up the age now. I'm turning 40 in like literally a week. And I like, like clockwork now. Like I was, you know, my whole life I've been so cocksure in terms of erections and man, like I'm noticing now I'm like, dude, if I even think about anything else while I'm having sex, you know what I mean? Like any, if anything else enters my field of awareness, if I start going like, what's this? Like, is it. It's gone. I had. Not even gone. But it's just not, you know, it's not. Yeah, it's not the dick. It's gone. And it's like, it's been fun for me now being like, all right, how do I, you know, what do. I got to let go of you? And maybe it's just going to get worse and worse as I get older. But that's. I sort of, that's an interesting one. I've never had that problem. And like, I mean that's like a very, you know, localized example, but you know, we'll see. That'll be my next quest to see if I could somehow overcome that. But it's, you know, plus like, you.
- [27:44]
B
Know, if you're with the same person. You know, it's a little hard talking about.
- [27:51]
A
What are you talking about?
- [27:54]
B
It's amazing.
- [27:57]
A
But I'm just powered by the strength of our connection. I have no idea what you're talking about. No. Yeah, obviously. It's like, you know.
- [28:03]
B
You know, sometimes I find, like, if you close your eyes and not. Not that you still connected to your partner, but turn on the lights and.
- [28:10]
A
Put on your plugs.
- [28:12]
B
No, no, it does internally. And so how you're feeling and, you know. You know, less stimulus.
- [28:18]
A
Yeah.
- [28:19]
B
So it. That helps a little bit.
- [28:22]
A
I think so. I think so. I. For me, I just eat and I recharge. But the.
- [28:26]
B
That. That helps.
- [28:27]
A
That's the move like a babe. Time out. I need a water break. I need a water break, babe. But I. I agree with you, man. I. It's like, you know, that's. If I. If I could somehow, you know, if you think about distilling all of your life's efforts into, like, one thing, it. For me, it really is trying to figure out how to kind of spread the stoke as much as possible. And not even, like. I feel like it gets a bad rap because there's that, like. Yeah, vapid version of that where you're, like, in the mirror being like, you're a champion. It's like, not that at all. It's like, no, you're a worm and you're pathetic on some level, but despite all that, you can still transcend that inside yourself and not be a total drag on your own life and, you know, everybody else's.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah. Like, when people say, you know, it's. It's. I hear this saying all the time. Well, you got to love yourself. You gotta love it. I can't quite.
- [29:16]
A
Did you ever try?
- [29:17]
B
I do.
- [29:19]
A
Yeah.
- [29:19]
B
It's just a weird thing, you know? So it's. I don't even think it's that.
- [29:23]
A
I. I don't. I don't think.
- [29:24]
B
You do have to.
- [29:25]
A
You don't.
- [29:25]
B
You shouldn't, like, hate yourself and beat yourself up. That's the thing. But, yeah, loving yourself. How do you do that? Oh, I love you so much.
- [29:34]
A
It's the weirdest thing. I've literally tried this. I. I was.
- [29:36]
B
I can't.
- [29:37]
A
I was on LSD one time, and, like, towards the end of it, I got this wave where I was like, I gotta show up for myself. I got to love myself. And I, like, looked in the mirror and there's a first thought of my brain was like, shut up. And I was like, all right. My bad. Try to love you. But you pushed me away. But, yeah, I personally think. Yeah, I think that's one of those things that, like, it sounds great, and then you try it practically, and you go, okay, like, this is impossible. I personally think you should not beat yourself up, like you're saying. And just rather than trying to play some weird mind game with yourself and, like, loving yourself, just go do something for somebody else. That's the easiest.
- [30:15]
B
That's it.
- [30:16]
A
That's easy. I can. I can pump someone else up. I can show someone I love them. But, yeah, that whole thing, like, love yourself. I don't know where that comes from or, like, where that even originated, because there was no way that's. I think that must have come in, like, the 80s. Like, that was. Nobody said that in, like, the 50s, 60s, 70s, maybe 70s and 60s. But.
- [30:35]
B
But I do think that love itself is a key to it. You know, that feeling of, like, if you can get that right here to, you know, love other people and, you know, to get that feeling for other people and for life and, you know, makes a big difference too. It's. It's similar to positivity or whatever. But that feeling of love is what I think we all crave.
- [31:02]
A
Yeah.
- [31:02]
B
And not to be cheesy or whatever, but there's something to that too.
- [31:08]
A
For sure. That. That was the.
- [31:09]
B
That's when you say helping other people. Yeah. It's.
- [31:12]
A
That makes me feel.
- [31:14]
B
Transforms you. You know, if you could get. Wake up and sort of try and channel that feeling of love rather than hate or, you know.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah.
- [31:21]
B
Or. I mean, what's. What all religions. What all spiritual traditions, you know, are saying, you know, and all the great people from, you know, Gandhi, Martin Luther King. It's the key.
- [31:33]
A
Yeah.
- [31:33]
B
Seems to. Yeah. To. To have it, you know, have a good.
- [31:38]
A
For me, if I want to try to alter my own mood, it's. It's such a labyrinth and mind game that it's like I'm just gonna end up probably having a panic attack if I, like, close my eyes and start going, like, all right, dude, let's make yourself feel as good as possible. I'm gonna. And I literally did this the other night. I was, like, putting my kids to sleep, and I lay on the floor while they're, like, getting ready to fall asleep. And I, like, started having a panic attack, and I was like, all right, I gotta get out of my head. But I can easily text my wife and, like, you look great today. And she's just like, oh, my God, thank you so Much. And then I'm like, all right, I feel good now.
- [32:07]
B
Yeah.
- [32:07]
A
But when you try to apply it yourself. Yeah. It doesn't work.
- [32:10]
B
You can. Yeah.
- [32:11]
A
So what I do is I do really nice things for a lot of people, and then I keep score if they do nice things for me, and then I eventually explode on them and say, you've done nothing for me. Told you look nice ten times this week. But, yeah, man, it's.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah, keeping score is.
- [32:26]
A
Is. Can't keep score. Can't keep score. Just got to be it.
- [32:30]
B
Especially if you're married, you know, Geez.
- [32:32]
A
Can't keep score. Yeah, you can tell them how hard you don't keep score. That's what I do. I go, look, the other day you left your stuff out. I didn't say anything, but I don't keep score like that, so.
- [32:40]
B
Yeah, exactly. Right.
- [32:42]
A
But that. I mean, marriage is one of those things that, like. Yeah, man. It's like, if you really want. Because I feel like, again, I. I only know my own self, but I. I do feel like, let's say collectively, it is like a. Like a furnace, because it's you and another person. You have different ways on. Like, this should be done this way. This should be done that way. And in my experience, you either, like, let go of a lot of stuff or it just explodes. Like, there's. There's no other way.
- [33:11]
B
You have to.
- [33:11]
A
And if, you know.
- [33:12]
B
And also, you gotta really anticipate that people are gonna change, you know, that. That nobody stays the same. That's not the point of life, is to stay the same. It's to. People are growing, they're doing different things, and to anticipate that and then really, I think, make that just commitment to. To kind of go with it and weather and not. Not fight against it.
- [33:35]
A
No, no, I'm telling you. I used to always, always, when I was younger, hear people say, like, just that similar, like, kind of folksy, happy wife, happy life stuff. And I'd always be like, never. I'll never give up. And then you. You. You hit the point. You go, I give up, dude. I'm done. I'll do. I'll just clean up my plate or whatever you're so freaked out about. But. Yeah, yeah, but it's good. You know what I mean? It's like. It sounds not, but it's like. I don't know, like, you know, for me, this is, like, kind of different, but, like, Covid for me, like, this whole thing about, like, being kind to other people, because I was like, I'm a nice guy. And then, like, I would notice. Like, I didn't notice how much I did this before COVID but I would be in a grocery store, and I would, like. I would just see a person. And, like, my brain. I would. My brain was constructed to, like, keep myself somehow above anyone around me and anyone way I could think of. So I would, like, see. I would see, like, a tall, handsome, muscular man. I'd be like, loser. Guy's probably a big dork. Thinks he's so cool. Guy's literally probably a dumbass. And then I would just see, like, a lady. Like, look at that lady. And I would just do this in my head.
- [34:38]
B
I'm the same I now.
- [34:40]
A
But, no, I would do this all the time, where I walk around and go, look at this guy. And then Covid heightened it because it was like, people would have the mask. I. I wasn't a fan of it. I was like, I think it's weird. We're all afraid of the air. So I would go out. I wasn't being, like, super aggressive with it, but, like, if I was outside walking my dog, I'm not wearing a mask. Like, I'm. I'm fine. I'm not worried. We're all far apart from each other. And I would get, like, dirty looks in my neighborhood because everyone was, like, completely K95'd up. And I had, like, it, like, heightened that thing in my head. So now it was like enemies to me. And I was like, look at this. Now. I was, like, really amped up. And I remember. I think I was in, like, a Whole Foods or something. And I, like. I realized somehow that every time I'd walk past a person and be like, look at this piece of. It gave me a bad feeling.
- [35:26]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [35:27]
A
And I just. Something, like, snapped in me to where I start. Every person I saw, I'd be like. Like, rooting for them on some level. I'd be like, I wish them the best. And, you know, I'd still have that, like, look at this lady's weird ass pants. Yeah. I'd be like, but I wish her the best. And, dude, I get filled with, like, an incredible sense of peace. And ever since I've been. Because the whole thing for me is, like, even if you see somebody who's, like, kind of unbearable, like, maybe doing something crazy or whatever, once you have kids, you're like, oh, that's somebody's kid.
- [35:52]
B
Yeah.
- [35:53]
A
So, like, if my kids are out in the world, God forbid someone walk past them, or, like, nice hat, Dumbass. I'd be so upset. So I started being like, well, I'm gonna treat everybody like there's someone else's kid. And, you know, and it's like, because, you know, I would, I would hope their parents would, like, want them to be treated nicely. And if their parents don't care if they're treated nicely or not, then they need even more kind of like love and careness or, you know, loving care, whatever it's called.
- [36:16]
B
And having kids really helps with taking that kind of perspective too. Especially like with your own parents. Like, once you have a kid thinking about your own parents, how they dealt with you, and having a little bit respect for that, you know, being a dad and having a dad, you know.
- [36:33]
A
Oh, yes.
- [36:35]
B
And. And other people too, like you're saying. But I don't know what that is. I, I had that same thing about judging everybody. And it's, it's a weird. Where does that come from?
- [36:45]
A
I have.
- [36:45]
B
If you can't, even if you're self aware, you're like, why did I keep doing that?
- [36:49]
A
You know, I have a theory. I have a theory and it's. My theory is that. So it goes, I think it goes all the way back to, like, it's just a thing in nature. Like, if you're an organism, you have.
- [37:00]
B
To size everything up.
- [37:01]
A
Exactly. But if you're an organism, say, and you. And like, there's a bigger organism than you. You're. You have a fear of annihilation. Instinctively, you're going, this thing's bigger than me now I'm going to die. And I think humans have so many dimensions to judge. Where it's like, money looks, success, what it's like infinite.
- [37:20]
B
Like, so, like comparing.
- [37:21]
A
So if you, if you sense someone somehow bigger than you, then it's like you have to somehow cut them down in your head because there's like a weird innate fear that pops up. That's my theory.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah.
- [37:31]
A
So you just walk around the day all day, and then if there's someone that like, you can just completely slam dunk on, it's probably just a feeling of victory where you're like this piece of. So, yeah, I don't know. That's my theory about that. But it doesn't help you. And the thing is, is you think you get this buzz off it, but I really think it makes you feel worse.
- [37:47]
B
Yeah, it does. It's kind of like when you're in grade school doing that. You know, it starts there almost.
- [37:55]
A
Oh, for sure.
- [37:56]
B
Kids making fun of other kids. And so I still feel like when you're an adult doing that, you feel like you're a kid, essentially. Still. No, but I. Yeah, I mean.
- [38:10]
A
Well, it's.
- [38:10]
B
What.
- [38:11]
A
I mean, if you're with your bros, it's fun. It's fun to mess around with your bros like that. But, yeah, if you're out and, like, in public around someone who's essentially a stranger, and you're like, I know a lot of people do this and start just absolutely ragging on people, I'm like, bro, you can't do that. It's not nice. Yeah, but. But, yeah. That helped me with social comedy, though.
- [38:28]
B
Don't you always have to be observing and, like, it's. Part of it is picking people apart or their idiosyncrasies. And I'll do it. Part of the.
- [38:38]
A
If I'm. If I'm struggling on stage, I'll sacrifice a crowd member just because I'm like, I'm not doing well, and I'll just absolutely sacrifice somebody. And I know I'm like, this is wrong, but I need this laugh right now. And I'm going to make fun of your hat and I'm going to make you feel terrible right now so that I can continue.
- [38:54]
B
Yeah.
- [38:54]
A
And I know it's not right, but it's.
- [38:56]
B
Or you're doing it to yourself, too. Like, about your own life and.
- [38:59]
A
Yeah.
- [38:59]
B
How. Yeah.
- [39:01]
A
Oh, I do that. But if I. If I. That's an easy trick to get a crowd on your side. Just absolutely. Just crush somebody in the crowd. And then they're like, all right, any of you guys want this, you better start laughing at me. I will. You. No. That's how my growing up, my family dinners were like that, though. Like, we would all. I was one of six kids, and we'd all sit around the table, and it was just like. It was a war zone. Like, everyone would start making fun of each other. Like, my dad would get involved and, like, he would just, like, it would be one victim. You'd be. If the light turned on you. Everyone would start just saying whatever they could to just completely humiliate you.
- [39:32]
B
Yeah.
- [39:33]
A
And you had to, like, strike out against somebody else and would turn the attention on them. And it was like. It was not. It was like every night at dinner.
- [39:40]
B
It's probably how your comedy started. Now, it could be.
- [39:43]
A
I don't know, but it's definitely. That's. That could be at least where that very critical negative voice came from. Because you'd be eating and, like, did you have five other people being like, well, look, you're fat legs. And you'd be like, you know, you'd have to fire back somehow.
- [39:55]
B
Yeah.
- [39:56]
A
So it's not the best, but it is fun. I don't know. I do think it's fun, though, like, with people if they're, you know, I don't know. Even when they get. When they react negatively to it. It is so much more fun if you catch someone who takes himself so seriously.
- [40:10]
B
I know, right?
- [40:12]
A
I'm kind of like a bloodhound for that. If I detect somebody's kind of, like, getting, like, pissed like that, I can't help it. I'll start, like, needling and messing around.
- [40:21]
B
Yeah. Yeah. But when I was perfect, when we were kids. Yeah. My friends and I would just kill each other. Like. Yeah. I assume it's like in every. You know, in every circle when you're a kid and we just kill each other.
- [40:36]
A
Yeah.
- [40:37]
B
Over and over. It was. It's. It's part of the whole. And then. But people would laugh, you know. I mean. Yeah, it's just. It's funny too, that that's the difference.
- [40:45]
A
If you got to be able to take it.
- [40:46]
B
Yeah.
- [40:46]
A
Because that's my. That's my mom's big critique of my. My dad loves giving it out, but if you get him, he's just like, you guys are. Asshole. He doesn't. He doesn't like. He doesn't like it at all. Loves dishing it out, can't take it. Which I think that's probably everybody, but. But nice, man. So. So the. The sports doc. So you're talking Gretzky. Who else? Who's. Who else is an example that.
- [41:07]
B
There's Tom Brady, Gretzky, so Rocky Marciano, who was one of the greatest, obviously, boxers ever of his time, was like, you know, really short. He had no reach. But he developed this style, you know, where he would just really like. Tyson had this, too. He would get. He basically was undefeated, and he would get close and. And basically, like, hit from up close. He would just keep, you know, get.
- [41:33]
A
Stay in your face.
- [41:34]
B
Exactly. And he was undefeated, but his body was like, you know, was not meant for heavyweight boxing.
- [41:42]
A
Yeah.
- [41:43]
B
And I'm saying it was. She was short, you know, not very heavy and had a short reach, but developed a style like Lionel Messi. I mean, he was also shorter than most people. He had this, you know, human growth issue where he, like, wouldn't grow when he was a kid and had to get testosterone. But he was, you know, he also developed this flea, like, style of, like, you know, deeking people. And he was so good with the ball and smart, you know what I'm saying? So he had that deficiency, but he overcompensated in other ways. I mean, you go through even Jerry Rice, so he's one of the best receivers in history. He said he wasn't very fast, but he basically memorized timing and routes so perfectly that it gave him that competitive advantage because he was in the right place at the right time, knew exactly when he, you know, when the ball was coming. You know what I'm saying?
- [42:37]
A
Yeah.
- [42:38]
B
I'm just thinking of all that's.
- [42:40]
A
That's really nice, too, because especially, like, with little kids, I've noticed. It's like, maybe it's always been that way, but, like, I'm just noticing now because I have kids, but there's, like, a serious paranoia about any. Even signs of, like, just kid showing any developmental dislike, you know, delays and blah, blah, blah. And people really freak out about that. And it's nice to think, like. Yeah. Rather than trying to, like, force my weaknesses to become something they'll never become, how can I kind of, you know, adapt and kind of, you know, play to my own strengths?
- [43:09]
B
Like, even, like, Greg Maddox, I was just thinking. I mean, he. He's not even in my film, but, like, same thing. I mean, he was. He sort of doesn't really look like a baseball player. Like, he's a little bit schlubby. He's not that tall. He's not that strong. But his accuracy and his ability to understand batters and, you know, was on a whole another level.
- [43:29]
A
Yeah.
- [43:30]
B
It's. You look at every sport, every of the greatest athletes, it's something like that, you know, that's completely unexpected. You know, I call it, like, Polski's Law, because it's like everything you see, everything you see is like, the opposite.
- [43:43]
A
Yeah.
- [43:44]
B
You know, that's pretty cool.
- [43:46]
A
You coin that paradox.
- [43:48]
B
I did coin it.
- [43:49]
A
Damn.
- [43:49]
B
I say to my family, I don't like. Well, now here on the podcast, but what? Just that I don't like to be, like, a douchebag.
- [43:59]
A
You know? Why? Coining. No one else is going to do it for you.
- [44:03]
B
Yeah.
- [44:03]
A
You don't do Polsky's Law. People are going to take it and they'll call it maybe McCusker's Law.
- [44:07]
B
Everything you see is the opposite. Yeah.
- [44:10]
A
So what is the law again? You're saying everything is opposite as what you.
- [44:14]
B
Everything is the opposite of what you see. You know, what you think. So if somebody's, like, happy all the time, you know, like, you know, they might be, you know, the saddest people.
- [44:26]
A
Gotcha.
- [44:26]
B
You've seen things like that or, you know, these sort of paradoxes of opposites.
- [44:31]
A
Yeah. Like the surface, the thing you present is. Yeah. The reality is probably compensating and.
- [44:36]
B
Yeah.
- [44:37]
A
Hey guys, real quick. I have some shows this weekend coming up. I'll be doing live stand up comedy. I'll be at the Belding theater in Hartford, Connecticut, January 23rd. That'll be Friday. Saturday, I'll be at the Egg the Hart Theater at the Egg in Albany, New York. Both the Tick. Both, both those shows. Shows are almost sold out, so please come. And if you want to come, there's, you know, a few tickets left. Also the. I'll be in Las Vegas, then Denver, Boise, Idaho, Salt Lake City, Cleveland. Just go to mattmccusker.com there's a bunch of other places for tickets.
- [45:09]
B
Thank you.
- [45:11]
A
I'll be in Helium Atlanta tonight, Thursday through Saturday. Please come if you can. If I know the weather's going to be bad, but I'll still be there. So please come. Sean gardini.com the link is below. Thank you very much.
- [45:26]
B
I'll be at Dallas hyenas the 23rd.
- [45:29]
A
Which is Friday, or in yellow rose cane on Saturday.
- [45:32]
B
Panties in your mouth podcast. Come on, guys. Well, the holidays have come and gone once again, but if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless.
- [45:44]
A
So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year.
- [45:49]
B
What do you have to lose?
- [45:50]
A
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch limited time. 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required. $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 month or $180 for 12 month. Plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy. See terms. Woo. Fair. Do you ever see the guy, there's a guy on Instagram who does facial scanning where he'll be like, all right, this guy has a, this kind of face. And you know, he has all these funny names for this like tree face block. And it's like, it's not like a derogatory thing. He's like, these are the facial structure terms. But he'll like, he says like, no one's two eyes are the same. And he'll be like. So he'll cover up the left eye. Like the right eye is the eye of the Father. And that's your secret hidden self. And like, look how afraid he looks in this eye. And they cover this eye and they'll be like, this is the eye of the mother. And this is like your, you know, outward personality. But it looks like angry. It's really kind of fascinating.
- [46:38]
B
Wow.
- [46:38]
A
And when you see it, it's like, it's not complete because, like, everyone does have, like slightly different looks in each eye. I've been in the mirror non stop the last couple weeks just trying to like, see which side that is, which eyes wit. And like what it says about me, it's kind of a terror that he like looks at people's faces and he breaks them down to a T. And some of the people are people he, he like, knows nothing about. And then the producer goes, oh, this guy like killed his entire family. He goes, oh, yeah, told you. He looked kind of up. And they, the craziest thing they said there's a term called. But it's, it's called whites on three terms, three sides of the eye. So like, when people have a lot of white showing underneath their eyeball, he's like, that's like a giant red flag because he had, he had done. The guy, I forget his name, the guy who killed his parents, Nick Reiner, he did a facial analysis of that guy. And that dude's eyeballs are like. Like, you see a lot of the whites under his eye. So I've been on the lookout for that lately. But there's. It's like a Japanese saying for whites under three sides of the eye. And it's like kind of like, if you see that, be careful.
- [47:38]
B
Oh, wow, that is cool.
- [47:39]
A
Tampaku. Is that what it's called? Oh, yeah, Senpaku. Whites on three sides of the eyes.
- [47:45]
B
Yeah. I feel like all the, those serial killers, they all have that look.
- [47:49]
A
Yeah.
- [47:49]
B
I don't know if we're sort of. If that's a stereo, I don't know. But, but they do have. I don't know if it's like, you know, they took too much acid or whatever.
- [47:58]
A
Could be.
- [47:59]
B
Yeah.
- [47:59]
A
I. The funny thing was so total. I heard about that whites on three side of the eye thing. And I kept saying to myself, like, I would hear of people being. Oh, I just did like a bunch of ayahuasca. And a lot of them would get this wonky look in their eyes and it's, it's literally it kind of looked like you'd see a little bit underneath and I could never like pin down, like, what is that about that. But it was like, I don't know.
- [48:20]
B
Yeah, I've done.
- [48:22]
A
Have you done ayahuasca?
- [48:23]
B
Yeah. Do I have that?
- [48:24]
A
How do you know you don't have that? You have. You're free from. What's it called again? Tanasaki.
- [48:28]
B
Yeah.
- [48:28]
A
Sandbox. What's your thoughts on ayahuasca?
- [48:32]
B
It's. Well, I. You know, it's very mystical. It's Opens kind of like a portal to different dimensions that, you know, it's just. It's just. It's very hard to describe, but it's very mystical. It's. It's. It's beyond opening a portal to something that you can't experience without taking ayahuasca. Imagine God or somebody saying, let me just show you this new dimension, or several of them, of what's possible in the mind. And you're just like, oh, my God, this is insane to have an experience like this. And part of it is. And I can't confirm this, but is the healing. Healing of. Of, you know, past traumas and you're throwing up, you're purging, you know, you feel better afterwards. It's not that I didn't do it because necessarily I'm looking to get healed or anything. For me, it was more of a curiosity and just sort of understanding. A deeper understanding of, who are we? What are we doing here? What is all this? You know?
- [49:42]
A
Yeah.
- [49:43]
B
And it's just if you're somebody who is curious about reality and mysticism and sort of understanding deeper about reality and stuff like that, I think it's. It's fascinating and enlightening in that way. You don't go. I mean, it's definitely still confusing because it's like you're opening into this portal and you're just like, what the hell is all this? This is. This is incredible and crazy and strange and. You know what I'm saying? But it's not. It's not like, oh, here's the answer to life. Some people do say, oh, I was told this, and, you know, I met Jesus, or I don't know what. What they happens. And then for me, you know, I can't say that I have a lot more clarity about everything, but it gave me a richer feeling about life and what's beyond what we can see.
- [50:39]
A
Yeah.
- [50:39]
B
You know, I don't know if you've ever. I mean that. With mushrooms.
- [50:43]
A
Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. How does it compare to, like, a super high dose of mushrooms? I don't know if you've ever Done.
- [50:49]
B
Different, almost dimension, really. It's like, you know, mushrooms you go into. In one dimension, which is like, I. I don't know.
- [51:02]
A
It's also mythical.
- [51:03]
B
You're in a portal. You're. You're seeing things that are. Yeah. You could never imagine, you know. But ayahuasca is like, even a little bit of a different. Each plant has its own almost world or something.
- [51:14]
A
Did you feel like, out of body, or is it. You're just looking around and stuff?
- [51:19]
B
Kind of. You're just. You're just in another world. You don't even feel a part of your body. You're just almost going into other dimensions with different, you know, patterns. You feel like almost. And again, everyone has different experience. But I felt like I was in. In some kind of strange matrix of. Of patterns that were, you know, and the patterns would sort of tell you stuff in a way.
- [51:42]
A
Or how many times.
- [51:44]
B
Feelings. You'd have these feelings, you know?
- [51:47]
A
Yeah. How many times did you do it?
- [51:49]
B
I've done it like, seven times.
- [51:51]
A
Really?
- [51:51]
B
Yeah.
- [51:52]
A
So, yeah, that's been my thing with ayahuasca. I've never done it because I talk to people. Like, I've done it like, 55 times. Like, literally like 55 times. And I'm like, what? Why would you think somebody would do it that many times?
- [52:06]
B
Well, why would somebody. I mean, I don't know. There are. People do it for different reasons. Some people, they. Let's just like, they, like, need to get healed or they're trying to get to something. They're trying to. It's a medicine. I mean, some of these shamans or people in the Amazon, they're doing it thousands of times. You know, so for them, that's not a big deal. You know, it's just part of daily life. They want to access the. The spiritual realms. You know, they want to be close to that. Because there's a lot happening right now that, you know, we're not perceiving, we're not seeing. You know, some people can. Can be in both worlds at the same time. They can be in this reality, but also experiencing, you know, this spiritual reality at the same time. The question you asked was, why do they need to do it that much? I've also noticed that people can do it a thousand times, and they're still kind of the same. Yeah. Which is. I don't know, are you trying to change so much or.
- [53:03]
A
I see what you're saying. It's like looking at it from, like, a cure perspective, where it's like, you.
- [53:07]
B
Hear that I've seen people get better. Mostly. You know, mostly you get better. That's cool of a person.
- [53:15]
A
That's nice.
- [53:16]
B
Yeah. I mean, so if you're somebody that is just, like, constantly depressed or has negativity just, you know, generally.
- [53:26]
A
Well, Wilson are better. After the slap, I think he had done ayahuasca, like, 30 times.
- [53:31]
B
Really?
- [53:31]
A
I swear to God. He did. He came out of the ayahuasca portal and just slapped Chris Rock right in the face. I could be. I don't want to be wrong about that, but I read his book, and he was like that. He was. He claimed, like, that was something that came kind of for, like, the right time for him, but. Yeah, that makes sense. So it's not like, cure all, but it definitely. Because I. I agree with that. Like, with, like, you know, just doing, like, mushroom. I've only ever done, like, mushrooms and. And acid and stuff.
- [53:54]
B
Have you done it, like, in a party setting or more just like, oh, I'm gonna go deep. I'm gonna go on my own.
- [54:00]
A
And I. I don't like the party setting.
- [54:02]
B
Yeah, I don't like that.
- [54:03]
A
Although I took acid at a concert. It was awesome. But that was sick. But the. But I prefer to, like, lay down somewhere quiet and do it. That's how I did the mushrooms. And it was like. It was awesome. Yeah, it's great for. For me, it's like. It's awesome. It really does, like, shape for me. Like, in the. The experience of it, you're like, oh, I've all. I figured it out. While you're in it, you're like, I figured it all out. But in reality, for me, it does, like, shave edges off slow. So maybe I answered my own question. That's why I do it 55 times. It does feel like it, like, shaves off edges slowly, but, you know, it's like A. Yeah, 2%. Once you. Weeks later, once you, like, the afterglow, all that stuff wears off. You're like. You're like, I'm still the same, but it has, like, shaved off a lot.
- [54:40]
B
Like, the mushroom works your subconscious, you know, really?
- [54:43]
A
And it helped the mushrooms help, for me realize how much I didn't realize how neurotic I was. I always knew I wasn't, like, you know. You know, like, not neurotic. But when I took those mushrooms, it was like the 5 grams. I, like, laid in bed, that whole thing, and kind of blindfold and all that. And I. The day of, I was like, picking out clothes, like, all right, what am I. I'm gonna, like, wear something comfortable. And there was like. I was looking in my closet and there was, like, stuff I had gotten a long time ago from Goodwill. And I would look at shirts. I'm like, that could be on a. That could be like a dead guy shirt. And I was like, I'm not wearing that today. Like, I. I didn't realize. And then when I did it, it was like. It just really just kind of like. I always tell people, it feels like there was like your. You know, like your own frame of awareness is like a football helmet you can't take off. And it was just like, take it off. And I got to, like, look at it. And I was like, dude, I'm nuts. And then I was like, oh. And then. But it was good. And then, like. Or I'd, like, wake up in the middle of the night to pee and I'll just get, like, rushed with the most insane thoughts of, like, I gotta get it back to bed right now. If I don't fall back sleep. And it's like. It just kind of, like, deadened a lot of that stuff, which was. That was like, nice.
- [55:47]
B
Yeah. And it's hard to. Sometimes you'll. You'll feel like you've got the key to life. It's right there. I figured it out. And then literally, like two seconds later, you forget.
- [55:58]
A
Yeah.
- [55:58]
B
What just happened? You forget.
- [56:00]
A
Yeah.
- [56:00]
B
Everything. It's amazing. You. You have the most incredible experience and, you know, a day later you just can't remember anything.
- [56:08]
A
Yeah. That's kind of weird thing.
- [56:09]
B
But it does go in into your subconscious.
- [56:12]
A
That's true. And I do think it'll be nice. Said this before, but it'll be nice for. For people now who, like, have to confront death. You know what I mean? Like, when you're getting older, it's like, yeah, like, that. That's going to be a godsend. Because before it was like, you just had to, like, smoke cigarettes, like, watch tv. And that's like a really gritty way to, like, die. You know what I mean? To try to, like, contextualize your death and, like, come to peace with it. So, yeah, I think that'll be a good thing for a lot of people.
- [56:39]
B
I think that, like, did you get this sense when you did psychedelics that, like, somehow you. This is where you're going, like, after you die, like, into this kind of dimension or. No. That it kind of would prepare you for.
- [56:54]
A
I didn't get that feeling, honestly. I. Honestly, I just more so get stuff of like, you know, mine's More about, like, life. About, like, this is just kind of what life is and, you know, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, but no, I've heard people say that with dmt, like, oh, like now I know.
- [57:09]
B
Like, it did feel like that with Ayahuasca, that, like, somehow that I'd been to that place before. This weird dimension, that I've been there many, many times, you know, and so I do feel like they might be where. Where you're headed, you know?
- [57:25]
A
Yeah, it's plausible. I mean, I get it. I know. I agree, man. That's the one thing of, like, just having some form of religious or spiritual sentiment. Like, sentiment, like, whatever. Sentimental. I don't even know the words. Sentiments is the word. Just having something to be like, I'm not going to die and rot in the ground for nothing. You know what I mean? Like, it's. My life is a meaningless. Like, that's. It's so bad for you. And I remember reading, I think it was Carl Jung was saying that, like, he had. I think that's how AA kind of started, where he met whatever the guy's name was, Bill W. And told the guy, the guy was like, dude, I've tried everything to get off alcohol. I don't know what to do. And he was like, yeah, dude, you're like 35. Like, if you don't somehow come to grips with, like, some concept of God, you're toast. He's like every person I've ever worked with. That's kind of the X factor. If you're like 40 and you're like, I'm a staunch atheist. He's like, yeah, you're going to be depressed, though. So, yeah, good luck.
- [58:20]
B
I kind of agree with that. Yeah.
- [58:22]
A
Yeah. Or.
- [58:23]
B
Yeah, some. Some spirit, some creator, some. Something. I mean, you know, I mean, we're here for some reason. I mean. Yeah, you know, we're.
- [58:31]
A
Well, it's funny, people. Like, this is a childish superstition. It's like, I can face it by myself. It's like, good luck.
- [58:37]
B
Yeah, I can't. I can't handle that. Yeah.
- [58:41]
A
Yeah. Well, that's cool, man. That's. How long. When did you start doing, like, when did that kind of come into the mix?
- [58:48]
B
I think actually during this process of making this film.
- [58:53]
A
That makes sense.
- [58:54]
B
Yeah, exactly. But I've always been super scared of it because when I was like 12 years old, I. I smoked pot, you know, and I totally freaked out and thought I was crazy. And just like, for a good six months, like, I had a panic attack and was still, like, just in shock. It totally tuned me up, and I was just like, what the hell? You know, it was devastating. And so after that, for, for like 20 years, I was afraid to do anything like, wow. If pot. You know what I'm saying?
- [59:26]
A
Like, oh, so you went from, like.
- [59:28]
B
No, anything, nothing, Nothing for, like, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, alcohol and stuff like that, but because, you know, I thought weed was so, like, insane for me, of an experience and shocking.
- [59:40]
A
And what was the bug out like at 12? Because I used to smoke weed when I was younger and I was chill.
- [59:44]
B
Wow. No, it was, I did do it one time and it was chill. Then I did it again, and I just completely lost it, like. Yeah, it was just like a panic attack. I, I, I wasn't prepared for the, for the psychedelic aspect of it. I mean, it was just like, really, you know, I did a lot, like, a lot of.
- [60:05]
A
Yeah.
- [60:05]
B
You know, and just everything was like this. And I thought I was gonna die. I thought I was going crazy, literally, for whatever. And it was so, so traumatizing that.
- [60:14]
A
Yeah.
- [60:14]
B
For, for months I was just like, is this real? Is this what is going on? You know?
- [60:19]
A
Yeah.
- [60:19]
B
And no one knew, like, what to do. They thought I was, like, crazy. Yeah. But I, But I just, I did tell them.
- [60:26]
A
Did you really?
- [60:27]
B
I was just like, you know, I need to go to the hospital. Like, this is dang, what they say wrong with me. They, they had no idea what to do. I mean, gradually it's dissipated.
- [60:38]
A
Yeah.
- [60:38]
B
I still never felt like my old self, you know, and it really kind of tuned me up and made me feel, like, very vulnerable. Yeah.
- [60:47]
A
Sorry.
- [60:47]
B
Yeah, that's all right.
- [60:48]
A
Yeah, that. Dang, that's crazy.
- [60:50]
B
And so since that point, I was, like, terrified of losing my mind, you know, but ultimately I got gained enough courage, you know, in the last few years to like, you know, it's just so curious that I wanted to, to try it, and I kind of started to.
- [61:06]
A
That must have been terrifying then.
- [61:08]
B
Like, absolutely, like, and I think everybody's a little bit terrified of these, you know, these plant medicines or mushrooms, because, you know, everyone's afraid of losing their mind.
- [61:19]
A
Yeah, true.
- [61:20]
B
But I think part of it is, is that's what we kind of need to do, that this world is tough. Yeah.
- [61:28]
A
I've been, I've been just for, like, you know, was you doing a podcast? You go, I might, I might. I should know, like, what's the top 10 news stories right now? And I've been like, grokkin being like, yo, what's hit me with the top 10 news stories. Yeah. So scary. Everything you read is, like, really bad.
- [61:45]
B
Yeah.
- [61:45]
A
It's like, fuck, this is. You know, and it is. It is funny. I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, we should just get along, but it's like, it's gotta be something we can do. This is. This is kind of nuts. When you read every story, it's just like, the technology's too good. We can't keep fighting. The technology's too strong. Get into, like, bioweapons, all this other shit, and it's like, dude, we gotta be nice. That's literally. We're gonna die. Yeah, we're all. We're all gonna die in, like, a hot, nasty flash, and it's gonna be pretty. Pretty sad.
- [62:12]
B
And going back to the movie, I mean, you know, I guess what I learned was that a lot of these indigenous prophecies kind of were all saying the same thing. So for the past, like, hundred thousands of years, they've been saying, you know, at this time the world would be going through incredibly difficult place, like, cataclysmic kind of things, and that it will be in such a bad place that, you know, we're going to really need indigenous wisdom. Go back to the original. They called the original order the. You know, the. Go back to the origins, you know, of indigenous wisdom and connection to the earth that we're going to need to. To basically save ourselves.
- [62:59]
A
Yeah.
- [63:00]
B
You know, part of that is connection to, you know, the Earth listening. The Earth listening to all what's going on and then behaving in the. In the right way. I don't know. It's.
- [63:11]
A
Yeah. I mean, it's here. We're going to run out of water. It's like, fuck, yeah. Three quarters of the. It's all water.
- [63:17]
B
Yeah.
- [63:17]
A
Fudgeing. Use it up. But, yeah, that's. Yeah. I mean, I. The thing that freaks me out is I think human beings need a cataclysm. If you're not gonna, like, completely, like, rock your socks with psychedelics, it's like, well, reality is going to reach a fever pitch so hard that, like, it's either going to make a plague. You know, we. Covid was like a minor. That was like a little bit. But, like, I mean, it's nothing like, you know, like the Black Death in Europe. That was like a real kind of rock your socks moment. Covid was, like, scary, but, you know, it wasn't like, you know, kids dying. It was still like the elderly, which is like, you know, sucks, but it's not like as gripping, I would say, as like every, you know, tenth kid fucking dying, which is like, maybe we'll never have that again because of medicine. But, but yeah, it's. I do worry that humans need another big old cataclysm to kind of like be like, all right, all right, all right. And that I think now, like, God knows what that could look like if it's not a natural disaster. If it's like a man made cataclysm. Could be. That could be rough.
- [64:17]
B
Yeah.
- [64:19]
A
And it's for like, for what? It's like, you know what I mean? Like, what are we doing here?
- [64:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, the reality is definitely getting weirder and weirder, you know, right now. Yeah. The world. And it's just an understanding reality. Understanding, you know, what to believe. You know, that's kind of. These are big themes in my movie too, is just what stories do we choose to believe? What, what do we believe in this kind of chaos, you know?
- [64:50]
A
Yeah.
- [64:52]
B
You know it's true.
- [64:53]
A
Yeah. Again, I just read the news now and I just prayed none of this is true. I hope it's all fake. I hope it's staged to scare me. That's like best case scenario. Then you look at it like, now these are probably a bunch of psychos fighting and you know. Yeah, we shall see. But Gabe, thank you, brother. Thank you, dude. Definitely go check out the movie. It's called the man who Saves the World, question mark. And it's. Dude, I, I, I'm telling you, I liked it so much. I was, as soon as I watched it, I was, I was talking, Brandon. I was like, dude, this is, was awesome. Where the, where'd you get, where'd you get this? So what, you did a theater run in it, right? You released it in theaters?
- [65:25]
B
Yeah, so we're still, we're still in theaters. We're doing basically like a tour, Like a comedy, you know, a comedy tour. We're basically, you know, been all over the country and, you know, so people, at the end of the month where we're doing four cities, you know, we're, we're doing San Francisco on the 27th, and then Oakland on the 28th, and then Boulder on the 30th. This is January. January.
- [65:48]
A
Okay, nice. And then from there, what are the plans? Just keep.
- [65:50]
B
Yeah. So we're kind of building, you know, this grassroots, you know, brand, you know, audience swelling and, and then ultimately, you know, it'll be more widely available, but. Cool. Yeah. So we're. We're just. We're out there getting the word out and. And doing these theatrical events.
- [66:09]
A
Nice. What do you. What do you have? Do you have anything down the pipe.
- [66:11]
B
Or wouldn't it be in Austin, by the way? February 26th.
- [66:14]
A
There you go. Nice, man. Do you have any other projects you.
- [66:17]
B
Want to work on? You know, I'm so focused on just taking care of this that. That this is kind of my main focus right now is just making sure that this is released. Well, and. And then. Yeah, I've got. I've got a bunch of other things I'm. I'm sort of thinking about.
- [66:32]
A
Cool.
- [66:33]
B
Yeah.
- [66:33]
A
All right, man. We'll do. Thank you.
- [66:35]
B
Yeah. Thank you, dude.
- [66:36]
A
Of course. Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane's Secret podcast on Spotify. Do.