Max Politics Episode 253: Reflections on Andrew Cuomo’s Reign

Date: August 11, 2021
Host: Ben Max (A)
Guest: Rebecca Katz (B), founding partner of New Deal Strategies and former chief strategist for Cynthia Nixon’s 2018 gubernatorial campaign

Episode Overview

This episode of Max Politics centers on the resignation of New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, following the release of the Attorney General’s report detailing numerous allegations of sexual harassment, a toxic workplace environment, and retaliation within his administration. Ben Max is joined by Rebecca Katz to discuss Cuomo’s legacy, his leadership style, and the broader implications for New York politics. They revisit Katz’s experience managing Cynthia Nixon’s primary challenge against Cuomo in 2018 and consider what Cuomo’s departure might mean for future gubernatorial races in the state.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Circumstances of Cuomo’s Resignation

• Cuomo announced he will resign on August 24, 2021, following the Attorney General's report on sexual harassment and misconduct.
• Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul is set to succeed him, marking her as New York’s first female governor.
  • Hochul emphasizes “listening first and then taking decisive action,” setting a clear distinction from Cuomo’s leadership approach. (01:55)
  • She promises a smooth transition and will not keep any officials with ethical issues in her administration.
  • Hochul acknowledges her distant relationship with Cuomo, having been excluded from the center of policymaking.

Cuomo’s Political History and Style

• Katz’s Early Impressions:

  • Cuomo’s influence loomed large during her work in the de Blasio administration.
  • Initial relationship with de Blasio was not antagonistic, but tensions escalated over policy issues such as universal pre-K and tax policy. (06:39–07:31)
  • Cuomo often shifted from initial opposition to later adopting progressive policies, like the minimum wage.

• Media Perception:

  • Katz notes the discrepancy between national perception of Cuomo, especially during COVID-19, and his local reputation marred by scandals and corruption.
    • “When people say something like, ‘isn’t he great?’ my response is usually, come, pull up a seat. Let’s, let’s have a conversation.” (08:48)

• Reputation for Fear and Retaliation:

  • Cuomo cultivated an environment of intimidation, making it hard for political operatives and public officials to oppose him.
    • “Everyone was afraid of him... That’s why it might be so hard for the average New York voter to understand how much scandal has been going around with him, because people have been afraid to speak up.” (11:14)
  • Cynthia Nixon’s campaign faced staffing difficulties because experienced operatives feared retribution. Nixon was able to run because she “had nothing to lose.” (11:14)

Revisiting the 2018 Primary: The Cynthia Nixon Challenge

• Theory of the Case:
  • Katz explains Nixon ran to hold Cuomo accountable for underfunded public schools stemming from the campaign for fiscal equity. (13:11)
  • The campaign also focused on failures with the subway (MTA) and holding back progressive reforms in a “blue” state.
  • Cuomo’s handling of the MTA—attempting to blame Bill de Blasio despite state control—was a major campaign issue.
  • Nixon’s candidacy was met with skepticism and sexism; she faced harsher media scrutiny than Cuomo.
    • “Cynthia was the only one who could take him on and who wasn’t worried that he would destroy her.” (16:14)
• Administrative Dysfunction:
  • Katz points to widespread corruption, unaddressed workplace harassment, and a lack of tough media coverage in New York City as reasons Cuomo retained power.
  • Difficulty in building a broad opposition due to Cuomo’s vindictiveness and influence.

Cuomo’s Patterns of Power and the Culture of Silence

• Political Retaliation Examples:
  • Cuomo’s response to the Working Families Party’s opposition was to create the Women’s Equality Party to confuse and undermine them.
  • He persuaded unions to abandon the WFP, demonstrating his tendency to punish dissenters. (21:13)
• Fear of Political Reprisal:
  • Even when officials like Bill de Blasio publicly challenged Cuomo, they ultimately lacked sustained organizing and suffered political consequences.
  • “If you want to kill the king, you best not miss... No one wants to be that person, right, with no power.” (21:13)
• Turning Point:
  • It took young staffers—Charlotte Bennett and Lindsey Boylan—publicly sharing their stories of harassment to finally break the culture of silence around Cuomo. (22:08)
  • “It took like a 25-year-old executive assistant of his to actually speak truth to power... she was braver than almost any legislator in Albany.” (21:13)

Looking to New York’s Political Future

• Kathy Hochul’s Ascendance:
  • Katz hopes for a new progressive era, with a leader focused on New York City and state improvements, after years of neglect.
    • “I hope it’s someone who cares about New York City... We have so many amazing state leaders. It would just be really something to have New York live up to its potential.” (23:26)
• Bill de Blasio’s Prospects:
  • On whether de Blasio might run for governor:
    • “I’m going to take a no comment on that. I think if Bill de Blasio runs for governor, that might be Andrew Cuomo’s only way back.” (24:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rebecca Katz on Cuomo’s Control:
  • “He’s been holding that power very tightly for many years... People have been afraid to speak up.” (11:14)
• On Cynthia Nixon’s Candidacy:
  • “Cynthia was the only one who could take him on and who wasn’t worried that he would destroy her.” (16:14)
• On Cuomo’s Unchanged Nature:
  • “Andrew Cuomo is exactly who he was a year ago. Like, he didn’t change. Everybody else... if these brave women didn’t step forward, he would still be doing all these terrible things and would probably win reelection by a lot for his fourth term.” (22:37)
• On Political Retaliation:
  • “If you want to kill the king, you best not miss.” (21:13)
• On the Future:
  • “I'm hopeful after all these years of Cuomo, we get a fresh start and we bring good government back to the people again.” (23:26)
• On de Blasio Running for Governor:
  • "I’m going to take a no comment on that. I think if Bill de Blasio runs for governor, that might be Andrew Cuomo’s only way back.” (24:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cuomo's Resignation & Hochul's Transition: 00:15–04:25
• Rebecca Katz’s Introduction & Cuomo's Early Connections to de Blasio: 05:52–07:31
• Cuomo’s National vs. New York Reputation: 08:27–09:43
• Roots of Cuomo’s Leadership Style and Power: 09:43–11:14
• 2018 Nixon Challenge: Motivations & Obstacles: 12:14–16:14
• Cuomo’s Pattern of Feuds and Media Manipulation: 17:13–20:07
• Culture of Fear, Political Retaliation, and the End Game: 20:07–22:37
• 2022 Gubernatorial Speculation: 23:10–24:19

Tone and Language

The conversation is informal, candid, and direct, with Katz offering inside-the-room perspectives and Max providing probing, context-laden questions. The tone is one of critical reflection, interwoven with humor (“we really deserved a quieter August, but we're not getting it”) and seasoned political skepticism.

This summary captures the episode’s rich context and provides an in-depth look at the dynamics, personalities, and culture surrounding Andrew Cuomo’s tenure and resignation, as well as key insights into the future of New York politics.