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Reformers Set for Takeover of Brooklyn Democratic Party
01:07:38
Three leaders of the reform movement in Brooklyn …
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hello and welcome to Max Politics. This is Ben Max coming to you from New York Law School and its center for New York City and State Law. Thanks for tuning in. It's Thursday, August 6, 2026 and my guests on the show today are three leaders of the movement to reform the Brooklyn Democratic Party, otherwise known as the Kings County Democratic Committee, and change how it does business, who leads it and how it operates around local party decision making, support for candidates in competitive elections, influence beyond Brooklyn and more. They're here to discuss major recent wins that appear set to allow them to name a new chair of the Brooklyn Democratic Party in just a few weeks and overall how it operates. With me shortly will be Caitlin Kawaguchi, Tony Malone and Julio Pena iii, who is the person their reform coalition says will be the next chair of the Brooklyn Democrats when that leadership vote happens in either late September or early October. My guests have been involved for years with various reform clubs and coalitions, including the New Kings Democrats, or nkd, an organization that sought to root out self dealing and a lack of activity, infighting and other problems they've pointed to in how the Brooklyn Democratic Party has been run historically. NKD was first organized in 2008 and some of its initial leaders or supporters included progressives like Congresswoman Nydia Velasquez, now Brooklyn Borough President Antonio Reynoso, and now City Council member Lincoln Ressler. My guests and the New Kings Democrats helped organize an offshoot effort known as the Brooklyn Can't Wait Coalition, which includes various other groups and leaders to elect enough Democratic district leaders to be able to name a new county party chair, which they believe they've now done and they'll tell us about the that work and what comes next in just a minute. There are 42 Democratic district leader positions across Brooklyn, two for each state assembly district in the borough. Given the results of the June elections, which is the whole ball game for Democratic Party positions like District leader, the coalition says it now controls 22 of those 42 seats and that that majority of returning or incoming district leaders has pledged to support Julio Pena to head the Brooklyn Democratic Party in a position technically known as the Chair of the Executive Committee of the County Committee. Kings County, AKA Brooklyn, is the county with by far the most Democrats of any county in the state and is seemingly among the top few counties in the country when it comes to the number of Democrats. There are more than 1.1 million active registered Democrats in Brooklyn, according to the State Board of Elections and its most recent data release in February. That's about 1/3 of the Democrats in New York City and about one sixth of the Democrats in New York State. There are twice as many registered Democrats in Brooklyn alone as there are registered Republicans in all of New York City. So the potential of the Brooklyn Democratic Party is quite big. Though of course, harnessing it requires building a lot of bridges among various stripes of Democrat, actually building a very big tent. But reformers say it hasn't been done or even attempted anywhere near its potential, and that they want to turn the county party into a real vehicle for organizing Democrats. In fact, they say the county party leadership has allowed for recent Republican gains in several Brooklyn seats for the City Council, State Senate, State assembly, while also doing very little to help Democrats in competitive general elections in other parts of the city or state. Currently, the Democratic Party of Brooklyn is led by State Assemblymember Rodney Speshad Hermelin, who took over in 2020 for Frank Sedio. Both of them continue to be elected district leaders in the borough. Bashad Hermelin has made some reforms to make the county party more open and responsive, but reformers like my guests continue to argue that county party leadership has not gone far enough to foster a more small d Democratic Democratic Party, nor been an active enough force in New York politics more broadly. And they also say the chair has actually worked against some Democrats in competitive races due to intraparty rivalries. County party leaders and the party itself can have immense influence over local politics, picking candidates for judgeships and special elections for state legislative seats. When there's a vacancy. They can marshal resources to support their preferred candidates and oppose the competition and do do much more to activate voters. Spend money and in a moment we'll get into a lot of that on the battle for control and reform of the Brooklyn Democratic Party and what it means. Very briefly, if you missed any recent episodes of the show, I've had a bunch of great conversations this summer that's included various post primary interviews on the elections of June and what comes next, including with Democratic State Party Chair Jay Jacobs, as well as several winners of competitive primaries like Brad Lander and others. I also had a really good conversation with strategist Matt Wing about Mayor Zoram Mamdani's first six months in office, touching on a variety of themes and topics. And my two most recent guests have focused on city government. New York City Council Speaker Julie Menon joined me to discuss several pressing policy issues and some of her legislative priorities. And then most recently, New York City Deputy Mayor for Housing and Planning Leila Bozorg joined me for an in depth conversation about the Mamdani administration's housing plan. Those and more in the Max Politics feed where you can catch up on anything you may have missed, but only after you listen to this one. All right. I'm pleased to welcome to Max Politics three leaders of the progressive reform movement in Brooklyn Democratic politics. Tony Malone is the president of New Kings Democrats, or nkd. Caitlin Kawaguchi is a former president of nkd. And Julio Pena III is a district leader and recent Community Board 7 chair, expected to become the next chair of the Brooklyn Democratic Party, also known as the Kings County Democratic Committee. They've been instrumental in the Brooklyn can't wait effort to elect progressive reform minded Democratic district leaders across Brooklyn, of which there are 42 positions in total. And in the Rep your block effort to elect more like minded candidates to the Brooklyn Democratic County Committee, which is made up of thousands of local posts. They've been leaders in the continued growth of the New King Democrats, a group organized in 2008 to reform politics in Brooklyn, including by engaging more Brooklynites in local political and civic affairs, bringing more democracy to the county party and helping elect a new generation of Brooklyn Democratic leaders. They now appear on the verge of seeing even more fruition of that effort and a takeover of the Brooklyn Democratic Party leadership. And and as I said, their coalition of district leaders plans to elect Julio Pena III as the next county party chair. So Julio, Caitlin and Tony are here to discuss all that and more.
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B
Hello.
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A
Thank you for joining me.
- [07:08]
B
Thanks for having us.
- [07:09]
A
Julio, let's start with you. Big picture here. What's the vision for how you and your allies want to remake the Brooklyn Democratic Party? We'll get into a lot of details in a couple minutes. But big picture, what's the vision here if you do indeed take the role of chair, as expected in late September or so?
- [07:28]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think Brooklynites are hungry and ready to turn the page. We've had several years of just controversy after controversy of not like rolling up our sleeves and electing Democrats. And for us, our vision is really electing Democrats across our borough, ensuring folks have information and we're vetting properly vetting judges who appear on our ballot and really changing the narrative of the Democratic Party. We're one of the largest parties in the country, certainly the largest in the state, and we're not really acting like it. And we have a real opportunity to do that.
- [08:09]
A
All right, we'll get into more details there. Caitlin, from your assessment, how far are things right now from that vision that you all share and you've been working on to sort of remake the Democratic Party in Brooklyn. Where is it at right now? What's some of the current good, bad, ugly of where we are right now in terms of the Brooklyn Democratic Party?
- [08:33]
C
Thanks so much. Great question. I mean, I would say right now the Brooklyn Democratic Party is pretty far from that vision that Julio shared. And that's what makes this moment so important. That's why we've been working on this and running district leaders to what Julio said. We want a Democratic Party that elects Democrats. And that sounds really basic. But unfortunately, I would say some of the bad and the ugly of the last couple years has been that the party's been failing at its most basic goal, beating Republicans and running Democrats. We've saw that in the years where the party spent more money in primaries than they spent in the general election. And in some years, not spending any money in the general election, which seems unfathomable. And then even as recently as 2022, the current party chair kicked the only Democratic assembly candid off the ballot in a district, leaving a seat open for Republican to run and to be elected. And so those are the kinds of things that when you think about Brooklyn and you think about how many Democrats we have here, they seem completely unreasonable. And they are. And that's why we think it's so important and so critical that we have a real change in party leadership and also how the party is run to ensure that one person can't single handedly make decisions like that. This party is actually a body that represents Brooklyn Democrats, folks who are in leadership and the voters and who can really do the job that we're meant to be doing?
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A
And so to pick up on that, Tony, maybe what are a few of the specific reforms that you've been advocating for that your slate has been running on that would actually make the Brooklyn county party more low lowercase D Democratic, more inclusive, more transparent, and as Caitlin was just saying, sort of more reflective of rank and file Democrats across the borough.
- [10:34]
D
Sure. No, thanks for that question. I think that the first thing this new party leadership needs to do is stop gatekeeping and kicking Democratic candidates off the ballot and start putting all the party's resources into beating Republicans. And I think that that is one way to start to win back the trust of voters. You know, right now we've seen that, you know, Donald Trump and the Republican Party are hugely unpopular in Brooklyn at this moment, but the Democratic Party also is not very popular when you ask voters. And we need to change that. And I think another key reform is opening up party meetings, letting people speak, and conducting fair votes. You know, we've seen the party chair come into party meetings with hundreds and hundreds of proxy votes of pieces of paper that allow her to outvote every person that took the time to show up and participate in the meeting. So those people going home feel like they just wasted their whole day. They didn't get to make any decisions at all. And the party doesn't care about their impact or their input. And I think that that's how a lot of people feel about the Democratic Party in Brooklyn right now. And this is a huge opportunity to change that, to build a party that welcomes participation and engages with every community in Brooklyn.
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A
And Julio, if you are indeed taking over running the party, do you want to add anything to that list in terms of specific reforms that you would intend to help lead through, how you would democratize the running of the party? Anything you'd add on to those? Couple of things. One, obviously, is a big sort of way that the party would be run to focus on beating Republicans and not so much internal Democratic primaries or fights. That's a lot of both internal and external work. And then the other thing that Tony mentioned there, in terms of how the meetings are run and the voting is done and so forth, is a very sort of internal reform. Anything else you'd add to that?
- [12:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, specifically, there are. We have over 3,000 people on county committee, and they're hungry to be activated. And so one of the things I've, you know, I really did, I really worked on at when I was the chair of the community board is really ensure people are activated in our committees. That is where like the bread and butter of the work we do to support our community happens at committee meetings, whether it's transportation issues, public safety, organizing for community events. All of that happened at committee meetings. And, you know, we have. At the county level, we have currently up, I think, almost 20 committees of the county committee, but none of them do anything. They. They haven't met, with the exception of maybe the rules committee and the labor committee. And I think that's a really great place to get people focused and activated, particularly for organizing around elections that is, you know, these 3,000 people can be activated in a way that is really meaningful and helpful around electing Democrats in November. You know, going back to the, you know, Tony mentioned the party rules and, you know, one person controlling the destiny of a meeting, I think that is such an easy, tangible way to make our party more reflective. Like, obviously, there's a lot to go in goes into that in terms of like, what does that look like? What reforms are you looking for? I think starting off the conversation with a basic premise that one person controlling the destiny of the meeting is not really sustainable model. And I think our goal is to really work with our district leaders and figure out what is going to work for us and how can we make it so that when people show up that they feel included in part of a conversation.
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A
I want to come back to more of the vision ahead. But Caitlin, maybe take a couple minutes and then Julio, Tony, jump back in to say a little bit about how everybody got to this moment. You and your allies, organizations like New Kings Democrats and a variety of others. People who've been involved in this work for a long time, like Antonio Reynoso, the Brooklyn borough president, and many others, have been working at reforming the Brooklyn Democratic Party for a long time now with a big push since NKD was formed. Coming out of the sort of activism and optimism of the Obama 2008 campaign. Say a little bit about sort of the path here, the motivation for reform, some of the reasons that you and other reformers have felt so motivated to put in all this work to sort of build power and try to get to this moment that it seems like you're on the precipice of the reformers sort of taking over the party. What's the path been like and what's been some of the motivation behind it?
- [15:49]
C
As you said, sort of we're definitely building on the shoulders of people who've been trying to do efforts like this for a long time. And with New King's Democrats, been working at this since, since 2008. So it's been a long journey to get here. And the way I sort of often describe it is I feel like for New Kings, Democrats, figuring out how to really transform the party system has been sort of like peeling back an onion. Like, the party is so many layers. And we, you know, tried and built so many, so many mechanisms to try to get to this point of change. And so sort of starting at the beginning, as you mentioned, NKD was founded in 2008 when a number of folks who'd been volunteering for Obama, who had been trained to organize, were excited after that election to bring it back to Brooklyn to their backyard, came back and went to the party boss at the time, Vito Lopez, who later gotten all sorts of other legal troubles, followed by another party boss with now similar legal troubles, and went and looked to volunteer. And I think that's really the kicker about so many parts of this story is that a lot of what we're trying to do, including now, is activate folks who are willing to give their time to make the party and to make Brooklyn a better place. And not every turn being turned away by party leadership. And so Vito Lopez said, you know, go away. We don't need you here. And at that point, the opportunity that NKD saw was through county Committee and understood county committee to be this body that made the rules, that was managing how the party was run and so looked to start running folks for county committee seats. That led to eventually what became rep Your block, which is the now coalition effort between New Kings Democrats and many, many other clubs around the borough to help folks take that first step in getting involved in running for county committee. What we found, though, unfortunately, and was that a majority in the room doesn't really mean anything because of how party leadership works and how party leadership uses proxies, which are people who are not in the room at the meeting sending back their vote to be used by party leadership. There's a great New York Times article in 2018 that details some of what happened at one of these meetings. But basically that when we finally had that majority in the room and attempted to change the rules, Frank Sadio, who was chair at the time in that meeting, pulled out the stack of proxies and said, doesn't matter. This is going to go my way. And the other caveat I'll add there is that it's not like these proxies are of people who are aware that they're giving back their proxies. Proxies can be oftentimes from people who don't even know they're on accounting committee. And we've even found, unfortunately, some folks who have passed away who have supposedly sent in proxies, which that can't be possible. So lots of reasons to question that system. But seeing that it made NKD look one level up, which was, okay, what's happening at the executive committee level. And so in 2020, we started supporting district leader candidates, including Julio Pena, who's now here, and started with five candidates and four who won their races. And that really, I think, kind of opened the door to seeing what was happening at the executive committee and how much power was really initially, and Katie thought it was in the county Committee, then in the executive Committee. But really realizing that so much power is consolidated in the chair itself, in the party struct. And so from there we continued to build with Brooklyn can't wait, growing the coalition and running More district leaders and got to this point this year. That's really exciting of having a majority and finally being in a place where we can make an impact. And I think something key there is that we're not just looking to replace one chair with another who's going to do the same thing. The goal here is not that, you know, Julio is going to run this continually as a, you know, this top down machine and hold a bajillion proxies. And the goal here is really to look at the leadership structure and how we can make a change that will be really sustainable and actually set up Brooklyn for success in the future as well.
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A
Julio, I got to ask you, so you're ready to come in, get nominated, get to this powerful position and then give up a bunch of that power that's been concentrated in the chair. I mean, how do you think about that? Are there any ways that, you know, I mean, this is sort of a common conversation in democracy, right? It's like how much democracy is a good amount of democracy. Are there ways in which sometimes you need a leader or a group of leaders to sort of take charge and push through. What they get is a sense of what will make, you know, the masses happy. You know, how do you sort of think about that concentration of power, giving some of it up, but still being able to run the party?
- [21:13]
B
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. And again, I'm going to go back to my experience on the community board because serving on your board is a lot of work and especially being the chair. And obviously I went into it with a specific vision and goal of what I wanted the board to achieve. One of them, I'll just say, is street safety, transportation issues. And so I really looked for a transportation chair who valued that. We shared, we talked about what our goals, we want them to be, and they executed that and found committee members who are willing to kind of roll up their sleeves and, and do the work. And I kind of look at, you know, the chair of the, the party in a very similar sense. Obviously I have very specific goals and values and things that I want to see done. But it's gonna, it's not gonna be just me doing that. It's gonna be a whole host of folks. It's gon coalition. It's going to be folks who are not in our coalition and really bringing our values together and figuring out how can we move our party forward. And obviously, I think there are times when, you know, you need a party leader and a person in charge to kind of delegate and do certain things. But there's also times where that power needs to be distributed. That needs to be like a committee focusing on a specific issue and then working together in alignment so that we're achieving common goals, particularly around organizing, around our finances, fundraising, our party rules, our structure. All of that, I think, is going to be in tandem with other folks. It's not going to be just me because it's also like there are expertises that people have that I don't. And I'm really going to be leaning on. Leaning on folks to help with that.
- [23:01]
A
Tony, maybe start on this one, but anyone else jump in? Are there things that the party is doing well now that are worth continuing building on? Is there anything of the sort of old school, you know, county party, like Tammany hall style work that's happening where people are actually, you know, there's like benefits in the community from things the party is doing or ways in which the party has made reforms because the current chair says she's come in and made some reforms and seemingly she's made some. Would you point to any positives in terms of either community impact or ways the party has been evolving that you want to build on as your coalition comes into more power?
- [23:46]
D
Sure. I mean, I think that there's some good things there in the party structure, but it's just a matter of putting them to good use. I love the fact that county committee exists, that there are, you know, Democratic Party officials that represent every single block. You know, you can represent literally like two or three blocks as the Democratic Party official for that, you know, election district, but the party hasn't been engaging with county committee members and hasn't been using them other than to send them a piece of paper in the mail saying, send this back and give your vote to the party chair and that's it. So I think actually mobilizing those county Committee members not to collect bribes, which I think is what Tammany hall did with them, but to actually knock on doors and get voters excited to go out and support Democrats would be amazing. And that's part of the Democratic Party structure. I also think that the party has made little steps, and a lot of this is thanks to people like Julio and like District Leader Shaquana Boykin towards holding public forums where people can meet candidates who want to be Supreme Court judges, who want to be civil court judges. Most voters don't know anything about these people, and they have a huge impact on people's lives. So I think that's really an area we'd Love to see the party continue to grow and make the judicial selection process more transparent, you know, vet judges publicly. I know this is something that a lot of district leaders and district leader candidates this year are passionate about, and we're really excited to see what this new team can do to continue down that road.
- [25:27]
A
Julio, anything you'd add on that, Caitlin? Is there. Are there, like, is the party. Does the party do, you know, school backpack giveaways or turkey giveaways or any of that stuff? I mean, I know a lot of council members and other elected officials maybe have taken that over out of their offices, but I don't know, you know, I don't see, you know, I don't know of evidence of it, but I'm not in the weeds on it like you all are. Is the party benefiting, you know, the sort of community at all, or. And do you think that that's even a role for the party to do things like that, or is it mostly really about sort of the political process, the judicial process, you know, some of these more structural things? And the party should not be doing, you know, giveaways?
- [26:10]
B
I mean, I would say the party isn't necessarily doing it, but district leaders are. I think, you know, there are some district leaders, again, in and outside of our coalition who are real big advocates for their community and. And host community events, fundraisers, giveaways, and I think that's great. I do think there's a role for the party to. To kind of do some of that work as well, because they have an infrastructure. Whereas, you know, one or two district leaders in a community may not. I'll also say, you know, the. I'll give one credit to our party chairs that she's a good fundraiser, she's raised a lot of money, but most of that money is, if not all, has gone to our housekeeping account and not our campaign account, where we really should be doing the work to elect Democrats in the general election. And, you know, I think that's a really important role for our party to have a real solid coordinating campaign with our, you know, general election candidates who are, you know, running against Republicans. Because our number one job is to be electing Democrats.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting because you do have so much of the borough that's just dominated by Democrats, and very often you're talking about just a handful of elections in Brooklyn that are really general election competitive contests. So it's interesting to think about. I mean, I know there's other things that the party does, and again, we, You Know, judicial nominations and so forth, and selecting candidates for special elections, for state legislative seats and so forth. But it's interesting to think about the party focusing so much on a select, Just a small select number of competitive general elections, which maybe we can come back to in a second. What is the party spending housekeeping money on? I mean, is it going to good use running the party? I mean, again, I'm sort of looking around in preparation for this conversation, also trying to figure out, like, what the Brooklyn Democratic Party does. And I know that's been almost a running joke for a long time that the Brooklyn Democratic Party doesn't really do very much. And part of the reason there's been momentum around reform is that money going. Is it just like staff and running the party and then running the fundraiser or two, and then it goes back into the staff and the running of the next fundraiser?
- [28:31]
B
Yeah, I'll start, and I'll let Tony jump in here, too. I mean, the housekeeping account generally is really the administrative finances of the committee. So, like, office space, supplies, staffing, meetings. So really kind of like the general operating expense account for the committee, that is not campaign. That is a separate account. But it's really a lot of our. Our. All of the money, if not that we generate, really just goes to the housekeeping account.
- [29:09]
D
Yeah. And I was going to jump in because that. I have a recent experience of how the party spends its money because they spent, you know, untold sums trying to kick Democrats off the ballot this year, which they've done, you know, two years ago in other districts, so legal fees. But you have four candidates for district leader this year. They sued, you know, these candidates collected plenty of valid signatures, well over the required number. And our party, you know, employed, you know, serious law firm to take these candidates to court. And then they had to go through every single signature at the Board of Elections again and check it against the, you know, the record at the Board of Elections that might be from 40 years ago, while these lawyers argued, oh, that doesn't match that signature, you know, looks a little bit different from the one on file. Trying to get enough signatures kicked off so these candidates couldn't run for office. And not only did the party spend many thousands of dollars on this, but these candidates now, you know, are starting their terms as district leaders in debt with legal bills to pay off from fighting their own party. And it's just absurd, you know, the amount of time and money we all spent when we could have been out talking with voters, engaging with voters, and instead we're sitting at the board of elections, sitting in court, arguing with our own party about whether these people should even be allowed to be on the ballot.
- [30:32]
A
So, Julio, let me quickly just come back to you for a second. So are you saying as the next county party chair, none of that. No Democratic primary of any kind, district leader, you know, race of any kind among Democrats, not going to spend party money trying to kick people off the ballot? Not, not spending money in Democratic primaries at all?
- [30:56]
B
As a county party, I think I will never say never, but I will say I do think that there are more ways we can spend our finances. I do think the there is a role for the party in primaries in terms of education and ensuring people have information about their candidates. Obviously. I think there are also maybe times where there we have a Dino who is running, who's not real Democrat and we want to ensure we're protecting our Democratic line. I think those are very. Those are exceptions and should not really
- [31:29]
A
be the rule for those unfamiliar Democrat and name only Dino. So Caitlin, maybe start. Start this one. But anyone jump in? We're, you know, I keep saying sort of along the lines of this is a presumptive because the vote hasn't happened yet. How sure of a thing is this? You know, you announced that you had the majority of district leaders after the elections that happened in June. Then you announced that that majority of district leaders that can elect the chair of the party has agreed to back Julio. This vote will happen very likely, sort of late September. Any pitfalls here? Are there ways that the current leadership, Assemblymember Bashad Hermelin or others could do something to change the rules to not allow this to happen? Are you preparing for a potential legal. What's the what's the forecast here? Are there ways that this could go, go awry?
- [32:34]
C
Great question. There's been plenty of shenanigans, I'll say that, that the party has tried and you know, we've seen the last six years since running district leaders and as I mentioned prior with county committee. That said, I think, you know, the process is quite clear that a majority of district leaders elects the party chair. Julio has the support of a majority of district leaders through the coalition. And we are in conversation with other district leaders who may not be part of the coalition but who share our values and who are really frustrated by what they've seen in the last six years, in the last decade from a party that is no longer fulfilling its most basic responsibility.
- [33:19]
A
People might want to also get in with the winners in the next.
- [33:26]
C
And so I think you know, but by. With all of that, it seems like a clear path. That's not to say the party won't try to do something illegal. They have tried plenty of. Of tactics before, particularly around when we've had success at County Committee. And as mentioned, they spend a lot of housekeeping money on legal fights. They like to waste away the money in that mechanism and with their preferred law firm. And so I think it's something that we are keeping an eye on, but it's something that we are hoping that we will not have to spend any more party money on these types of fights and that we can really turn our attention to what it looks like to build a party that actually works for Brooklyn Democrats.
- [34:17]
A
Tony, Julio, any worries about pitfalls or attempts at tactics that could try to not have this come to fruition?
- [34:31]
D
I guess I'd say the reason why I feel confident in this team and in this leadership transition is that there's a huge coalition behind Julio and behind the 22 district leaders of the Brooklyn Can't Wait slate. It's much bigger than nkd. You know, NKD certainly couldn't have done this on our own. But, you know, it goes from, you know, coalition partners in southern Brooklyn, like district leader Chris McCreight, who's running in a crucial assembly race against a Republican in Bay Ridge and Coney island. And he has strong allies down there from, you know, Senator Andrew Gonard and Councilmember Kayla Santu Suso, who know how to beat Republicans and are so excited to have a party that's going to have their back finally. And we need to do that this November. We need that party. And then we have allies, you know, from the reform movement going all the way back to the IDC fight. You know, Zellner Myhre. Senator Zellner Myhre is a strong ally. And, you know, newly elected district leaders Mikel Williams and Nikisha Evans in the 43rd assembly district also, you know, have a long history with reform and with building structures that are going to be accountable and transparent. And we know we need that in the party. And then in northern Brooklyn, we have so many amazing allies.
- [36:04]
A
You know, so it's a broad. A broad coalition. I get it. But I imagine there's.
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B
There's as.
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A
As we were just getting at a little bit of questions about whether, you know, there can be attempts at changing the rules or things like that before the next vote is taken.
- [36:21]
D
So, I mean, I guess, yeah, it's a long answer, but I guess I'm just saying that, you know, it would be the party chair alone against, you know, a huge coalition that goes across Brooklyn of people that want a strong party for elections this November and beyond.
- [36:35]
A
So, Julio, let's talk a little bit more about, you know, again, under the assumption or the likelihood that this does happen, we get back on that track. What is the sort of strategies for party building look like? So you mentioned some of activating more of these thousands of members of county committee that often don't hear much from the party. What is, you know, what. What are sort of some of the strategies and tactics that you'd look to bring in in terms of activating people, in terms of how the fundraising would be different, you know, use of, I don't know, social media or any, any of the different ways in which, you know, in politics, people try to reach people, activate people, organize people, fundraise from people. What, what are some of the things you're planning to do if you do take the reins here?
- [37:24]
B
Yeah, I'd say obviously that also starts with hiring a competent executive director, someone who has experience in campaign finance, someone who has experience in organizing and field work for campaigns. You know, someone who can really help lift the party and what we're trying to do. I think it also.
- [37:48]
A
We have someone lined up for that position. Or is that a. That's a down the road thing.
- [37:53]
B
That is a down the road thing. We do not have someone lined up for that. I also think it is really building like a team of folks who can help day one on certain things. In terms of fundraising organizing. I think there's a lot of work to do in restoring the trust of our party. And it really starts with hiring really competent folks who can help do that work. I mean, in terms of social media, I really want to up our game. We saw in the last mayoral election how now Mayor Mamdani really moved folks and really was able to get out a message of affordability across the entire city. And I think, you know, it is a really untapped source of and way to get people engaged and get our message out, you know, not just during elections, but really on issues that matter to. To Democrats on affordability, housing. And it, I think is a. Is a real way I really want to help elevate the. The party.
- [39:05]
A
Caitlin? Tony, you want to jump in on any, you know, sort of strategies that maybe that you used at NKD that you want to bring to the county party or other ways that you think, you know, some of the outreach efforts, activation efforts. You know, it seems to me like going back to one of these questions about what does the Brooklyn Democratic Party actually do? You know, there's been questions about why the Brooklyn Party isn't sending, you know, I don't know, busloads of volunteers to districts even outside of Brooklyn and outside the city to, you know, help with Democrats win in swing districts and so forth. But any thoughts on other things you'd like to see the party, you know, sort of adopt, you know, ways in which it can evolve, etc.
- [39:48]
C
Yeah, I think just to underscore something that Julio was saying around, you know, hiring people with real background and experience for all of this, just wanted to jump in and flag that. That. That. That would be quite different than what we've currently seen. And I think part of the. The reason behind some of the challenges or why, you know, we haven't seen communications as strong from. From the current party or as strong of organizing efforts that for a long time, the folks in those positions have, you know, been handpicked by party leadership and not necessarily people who are identified to build the party in that direction. And so I think that in itself will be a change and will make a difference across the board. And then to what you just mentioned, I think definitely opportunities to just go where Democrats are excited. And I think we saw that in the last election. We saw lots of folks from Brooklyn going to swing districts, not many through the party because the infrastructure and the excitement just wasn't there. And so I think identifying how Brooklyn Democrats want to be involved and activated and then making that happen is something that New Kings, Democrats at Rupture Block, the other clubs around the borough, have prioritized, listening to our members and what they want to be doing and then helping them get there. And that's something that I think building more of that grassroots energy and connection a new party under Julio's leadership will be able to do.
- [41:13]
A
So take us through a little bit more of what this looks like. So if the party is more lowercase D Democratic, has more of a focus on activating members, is more focused on putting resources towards actually competitive general election, is the party, you know, do you have thoughts on sort of like, how much staff does the party have and what does that, you know, sort of look like? And what are, you know, is. Is it that the party is really gearing up for those competitive general elections and then also dedicating a lot of resources outside of Brooklyn? Julio, maybe just say a little bit more help people, you know, if you, you know, are able to come in and start raising even more money than they've been raising and and hire people. You know, what does that look like a little bit more in terms of the organization and the, you know, the operations?
- [42:11]
B
Yeah, I mean, you know, I said earlier that Brooklyn really has an opportunity to set the standard for our entire city and state. And I think ensuring our party is functional and engaged, I think can really lend to that. You know, we can be organizing in, outside of our borough, we can be organizing outside of our state. You know, we, we have, obviously we have the, the midterm elections coming up in, in this November, but we also have a presidential election just two years later and really have an opportunity to, to flex our muscle and, you know, bring people out to some of our swing, the swing states that are nearby us and you know, in terms of like the staffing and what that looks like, you know, I don't have a full answer because I don't even know, you know, who are the people that our party has hired, who are the people on our payroll? With the exception of our interim deputy administrator or executive director, I, I don't know who the parties has employed or who are the folks in, in these roles because that's not something that has been pretty clear. What is clear is I do think we need to up the ante a little bit and ensure that the folks that we do have are high quality and experienced folks because we have a lot we want to accomplish and that's going to take a lot of fundraising. But that's also going to take experience to folks who have done this work before.
- [43:47]
A
And Julio, when you think about helping Democrats win in competitive general elections, like we have referenced southern Brooklyn several times, where you do have a few Republican assembly members, State senator, you have some overlap with Nicole Mayotakis congressional seat, of course, New York 11. Is it your view generally that in more of those sort of purplish places in Brooklyn or beyond that? Pretty much, you know, any Democratic nominee, it's sort of vote blue no matter who, and the party will be ready to support them. Are there ways in which you'd be thinking about, you know, going to your executive committee, going to the county committee and trying to have a policy agenda that, you know, would dictate which candidates you support or don't, or developing certain red lines in terms of, you know, sort of what you mentioned about a dino, you know, quote unquote, dyno about, you know, someone who's running as a Democrat but isn't necessarily that aligned with the broader Democratic priorities? How do you sort of think about that? Because obviously there's discussion all over the country and in New York about, you know, how Democrats broadly do or do not rally behind a nominee, you know, once a primary is over and so forth. Do you have the view that without, you know, perhaps with the exception of someone who's got some major personal scandal or corruption issues or whatever it might be that's pretty extreme, that it's pretty much sort of support the Democratic nominee no matter what, or would there be? Are you envisioning a process around how to determine that?
- [45:26]
B
Yeah, you know, that's a really good point. I do think the party should be supporting our Democrats in our general elections. That being said, I do think that there are some ways we, there should be alignment between our candidates and a party platform which we don't really have. I think when you're talking about a borough as large as Brooklyn, there's a lot of diversity of thought of how we should be approaching certain issues. But I do think that there are values that we all care about. Housing, affordability, safe streets, good paying jobs, affordable health care. Like, these are things that are really basic and I would love that all of our candidates who are running in our general elections believe in those things and want to support those. I myself live in a district that I currently have a Republican senator, so I a state senator. And I really want to ensure that the candidate I'm voting for is going to support those things, whether that is through conversation, through town halls, through education. I want to make sure that the candidates that we're voting for in our general election believe in, you know, our Democratic Party values.
- [46:36]
A
And how do you think about fostering some of that unity? You know, let's say it's coming out of a very competitive, contentious Democratic primary and, you know, there's a winner that's a lot more moderate to, you know, center. Center. Right even. But is a Democrat than you or, you know, a variety of the district leaders who are now potentially going to, you know, be in charge here
- [47:03]
B
is
- [47:03]
A
that, you know, A, how do you think about fostering that unity? Is it the role of the party chair and the, and the, you know, executive committee to foster that unity? And B, I guess, tied in with that. What do you say to the folks who are district leaders now who are not aligned with you? You know, are you ready to sort of, you know, offer them an olive branch? Or do you, or do you see this as something that's going to continue to sort of grow even if you're not necessarily actively supporting primary challenges to some of them that, you know, this is a reform Movement that, you know, will continue to accelerate.
- [47:41]
B
I think that the very basic thing is we have to have dialogues, we have to have conversations, we have to be engaging with folks that we may not necessarily align with just as much as, you know, we engage and talk with folks that we do have alignment with. I think that the. My experience has been is that we haven't really been given opportunities to develop working relationships with folks. There are district leaders who are not in our coalition that I have a very friendly, cordial relationship with, that I have to develop that myself. That's not something, a plate. That's not a place where our party has really fostered that. And I think that's where a place to start is really engage folks who have not always been included or we don't have 100% alignment with so that we can start a dialogue and conversation and see where that alignment is. And you know, I think the same thing applies to our elected officials. Whether we agree 100% on things or not. I think there needs to be a place to have a conversation on where there is alignment. Where is there areas that we can support our community, because end of the day, that's what their role is. And I do think the party can play a role in that, whether that is specifically in neighborhoods or borough or citywide. I do think that there is a role for party to help foster conversations and dialogue so that, you know, we are hearing from our constituents, but also listening and taking action on what we're hearing from.
- [49:08]
A
And I want Tony or Caitlin to jump in on any of this. But just Julia, one more for you on this. Do you foresee as a county chair being a very sort of public person or more of a behind the scenes person or both? I mean, do you, you know, there's different ways that people do it, right? There's a lot of just running the party machinery and doing all the work you'd been talking about. And there's also being out there very publicly and being sort of a major political figure in your own right. How do you sort of think about the role you plan to hold?
- [49:41]
B
Yeah, I kind of see myself a little bit in the middle of that. I, you know, I would be the first party chair that has like a 9 to 5 job. I work for a non profit and so like I have my, I have a job that I need to do to pay my bills and you know, support my, my family and my community. And so that obviously is going to be a little bit limiting because I'm not going to be an assembly Member or a state senator, a congressmember that has a little bit more flexibility and what I can do during the day. That being said, I think going back to before, it really is building a team so that there are other folks who can be a public face when I can't because I have to work. And I really just. What I really want to do is ensure that our party is seen and that people are seen from our party and whether that is through me, through other district leaders, through a county committee chair, really ensuring that people are seeing our party and are feeling seen from our party.
- [50:46]
D
I also wanted to jump in because I know Julio doesn't like the toot his horn so much, but he's. He's already been doing the work of building the bench that, you know, the work that our party isn't doing and building community among the current district leaders, you know, among the sort of reform coalition that it's been in office for a while. Julio is always the one that finds out, you know, which judges are going to be up for consideration first and is able to get some information about them and share it with the other district leaders so they have an idea, okay, these are the people we're going to be asked to vote on in a few days and you know, trying to bring some light into the often obscure workings of the party. And just this year, the Brooklyn Can't Wait coalition recruited six first time candidates who had never run for office before that won their election for district leader. And this, our party could be doing this continually. So we have a bench. So anytime there's a seat that opens up an opportunity to beat a Republican, or we just need talented organizers. You know, on every one of these campaigns there were people, you know, organizing the field strategy, there were people, you know, doing the social media, there were people making phone calls, knocking on doors. All those skills can now feed into our party organization. So I think that there's going to be a really large talent pool. I mean, in Brooklyn, for goodness sakes, we could certainly fill every role that the party needs many times over with extremely talented people. And I think Julio already has a network and now it's just building on that and growing the coalition.
- [52:26]
A
Caitlin, anything you want to add on any of that?
- [52:28]
C
Or.
- [52:28]
A
I have a, you know, my other, my other question here, and we only have a few minutes left altogether, but you know, another question here is if you see any of this as something that you are working with other sort of like minded folks about in terms of looking at other county parties in the city, you Know, there's been some efforts at looking at, you know, sort of reform efforts in Queens. The Manhattan Democratic Party has sort of not often been that sort of organized or powerful of a, of a county. Are you, are you in conversations with others? Do you, do you see seeds of things happening, especially in, in Queens, next door to Brooklyn?
- [53:14]
C
Not sort of explicitly, but we have had a lot of outreach over the years, including from groups in Queens, from district leaders in Manhattan. We had someone on a recent NKD meeting from Staten island who are looking at, you know, what's been done in Brooklyn and are interested in learning more. I think also sort of zooming out, we're at an interesting moment for this to be happening. When we look at the national Democratic Party. I think a lot of the trends that we've been feeling and seeing in Brooklyn around disengagement and leadership, putting their own interests first, are things that Democrats all over the country, quite frankly, are feeling. And so the idea of how do we build a party, you know, starting at the most local level, at the county level that is actually more responsive and engaging and answering these questions is something that is getting interest. And we're, you know, excited to talk to people who are thinking about that and doing that in their own ways. I, you know, New Kings, Tony can jump in on this, but I don't think New Kings has any intention of going citywide or anything wild like that, but really about supporting people where they are. To do this kind of work and bring back little de democracy to the party, I think is super important.
- [54:28]
A
And how much of the work ahead so very immediately, right. If this vote happens in late September, there's new party leadership. You're very quickly going into the general election this fall, especially for these local assembly and state Senate seats that, you know, we've referenced that Democrats are looking to flip back to Democratic hands or flip. And you also, though, have these statewide races where people expect Governor Hochul to win reelection, but last time it was a six point race, Democratic turnout was down. How do you sort of think about that turn towards the general election? And obviously you have a priority of trying to win some of those Brooklyn legislative seats, but also just broader turnout, get out the vote efforts from the Brooklyn Democratic Party that could contribute or not contribute to the margin in a gubernatorial race that may be close again.
- [55:29]
B
I mean, I would say, you know, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I think we can organize people and get out volunteers for elections while also building and staffing up our party. Obviously, I think, you know, that's not going to be an easy task. But I'm very confident that, you know, we're, we have smart people in our coalition, we have people who can support us and, and really, you know, they want to see the Democratic Party succeed. At least I hope they do. And so I really want, I really do think we can achieve both those things at the same time, obviously.
- [56:03]
A
And do you see it as a key goal to turn Democrats out in Brooklyn for the govern in this fall election? Is that like something that would be an active, you know, goal and, and strategy for you?
- [56:14]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I, I think it, it's smart that we're, you know, turning out for all of our elections, whether that is statewide, citywide. We don't have any citywide this year, but, you know, countywide. I think it, it behooves us to not work in, in tandem in coalition with all of our folks up for election because it, it, you know, that's the best way to activate people.
- [56:38]
A
Should people understand this? Tony, anyone else jump in as sort of connected to the progressive, the Democratic, socialist, you know, ascendancy, like, you know, for a long time before DSA really got going here in the last, you know, close to decade now, but eight, 10 years, you know, NKD and others were talking of yourselves and themselves as, you know, progressive, reform minded Democrats. Right. So there's ways in which, just like, you know, Brad Lander becoming the city Comptroller or Bill de Blasio becoming the mayor, you know, there's, there's been a growth of progressive wins in New York, but how should people think about this reform movement in Brooklyn politics as connected to the DSA's ascendance? You know, you have a lot of DSA wins in Brooklyn just now, and I know some of your district leader candidates were working in tandem with some of those candidates. How should people think about whether this is part of that movement, somewhat overlapping, not that connected?
- [57:47]
D
I guess I'd say that the Brooklyn Democratic Party contains multitudes and I think that we need to really lean into that. You know, there's certainly been some amazing organizing by DSA candidates, you know, primarily in North Brooklyn, and amazing organizing by sort of more like long standing reform, you know, organizers in sort of central Brooklyn, Brad Lander being a great example. And then there's the people in southern Brooklyn who have to fight every day just to hold seats, hold Republicans back, you know, from taking over the southern half of the borough. So I think that it's a huge diversity of constituencies there and the party needs to embrace all of them, and figure out how a Democratic Party, since we have a two party system, can really serve all of those constituencies and deliver what they need. And I think we're seeing candidates that can do that. I mean, I think, you know, Chris McCrate, who I mentioned earlier, is a district leader, part of this coalition, and he's running for assembly in southern Brooklyn against a Republican incumbent. And I think he knows better than anyone else what it's going to take to win that seat. And the party's job is just to deliver the resources, deliver the boots on the ground so he can accomplish that mission.
- [59:11]
A
He's also part of a group of Democrats in southern Brooklyn where the current party chair and the Democratic Party in Brooklyn has had a lot of issues. There's been a lot of sort of rivalry and a lack of lack of cohesion there.
- [59:25]
D
Yeah. And it's felt like the party chair would rather see Republicans win there than Democrats that she doesn't like, which is, you know, outrageous. In this day and age, in the era of Donald Trump, to be making those calculations is just staggering, you know, and we can't have a party that makes those kind of trades. We have to turn back the Republican tide, and that's got to be the top priority. And I think that makes working in coalition with everyone from conservative Democrats in southern Brooklyn to DSA organizers in northern Brooklyn makes total sense. And the district leaders in this coalition understand that because they will be out there knocking doors for Chris McCrate, even if they don't agree with him on a number of policy issues.
- [60:14]
A
And just coming back to this idea of the quote, unquote, Dino, there are district leaders, Democratic district leaders in Brooklyn, office holders who are pretty conservative Democrats who run on the Democratic and Republican ballot lines. As you look at coming into leadership of the party, are there conversations that Julio, you'll have or others perhaps might have to say, you know, we want a big tent party, but we're going to need you to move towards us a little bit in certain ways. Like how do you think about sort of managing that big tent, but also, you know, perhaps trying to pull people to be more aligned with some of your more progressive values that they might not be championing.
- [61:03]
B
Yeah, obviously I would want to pull folks closer into where my alignment and where we are. I don't think that if you're running as a Democrat for an elected office position that you should also be running as a Republican. That's my personal opinion. Whether that is the opinion of the party, that's yet to be seen. I Do think that there are. If you are support the. Our party and our values, you shouldn't be running as a Republican. You know, obviously, there are some exceptions to that. Judges often run as a Democrat and a Republican, I think, because if they see it as they're not really beholden to either one and want to be partial, impartial. But I do think that, yeah, I
- [61:45]
A
mean, there's a whole nother conversation that I'm holding off on about whether judges should be coming out of party machinery, but I don't think we're not going to get into that now. And so, you know, that's a. That's another conversation I could have with other people on this podcast, but it's certainly something that's been on. On my mind.
- [62:01]
D
Yeah.
- [62:02]
B
Yeah. That's a whole nother podcast.
- [62:03]
C
Yeah.
- [62:04]
B
But I do think there is a place for the party to kind of lead in those conversations and ensure that, you know, people are seen and that, like, you're not having folks running as both Democrats and Republicans.
- [62:18]
A
And is it your view that, you know, I've been having a variety of conversations on this podcast with people coming out of the primaries we had in June, and there's pretty different perspective among Democrats about how much sort of infighting is okay post primary. So, for example, you have Congressman Tom Suozzi, swing district, mostly Long island, little bit of Queens. He feels very comfortable. Seems like part of his, you know, belief system, political brand, to punch left a lot. Right. And I think he thinks that's part of his electoral strategy. I had state party chair Jay Jacobs on this show saying, you know, if that's what he needs to do, everybody's gonna, you know, kind of gotta have tough skin and, like, trust him because he's winning that district. That is not necessarily an easy Democratic win, especially the way a lot of Long Island's been going. You have other Democrats who do not subscribe to that. How do you and anybody, anybody jump in here and I'll let you guys go in a minute. But, you know, how do you, how do you sort of feel about that? And do you think there should be a message from the Brooklyn Democratic Party about what tactics are okay like that and what will be either accepted or frowned upon by the party? And is it kind of like, all right, Chris McCrate, who you've mentioned, you know, if you need to sort of like, punch left and criticize the mayor or whatever it might be, like, go ahead and do that if it's going to get you a win or, you know, should it should it not go to that level?
- [63:50]
B
I mean, I'll just say I think each district and community is very different. Right. What's going to work in Bushwick may be very different than what's going to work in Canarsie. And the needs and the needs in those specific communities are going to be very different. That being said, I do think there's a place for the party to see where there is alignment and see where folks where. I necessarily don't want to draw a line, but I do think that there needs to be some alignment in some of where our candidates are. What that looks like, I'm not quite sure. But I do think that we need to be speaking to the issues that matter to each community. And that may be different in Bay Ridge versus Sunset, park versus Park Slope. And it's really important that our candidates are listening and responding to that
- [64:45]
C
and just building on that. I think something else that's been a real. That's just been lacking with the Brooklyn Democratic Party, but you see it elsewhere is the difference between a short term vision, especially around communications to win election, and a long term vision that looks at how are we building the Democratic brand moving forward and for other candidates. And so I think that's also where figuring out what that line is and how you want folks to think about messaging just punching left, it might work in the short term, but is it hurting us on a statewide level? Is it hurting us over the course of five years? That's where I'm really excited for a new party vision in Brooklyn that's thinking more long term. That's thinking about what are the strategies that we can do now that are building for the future as well and focusing on messaging that will get us where we need to be in the future as well.
- [65:38]
A
I think we'll leave it there. Tony, go ahead. Final thought.
- [65:41]
D
Sure. I mean, my final thought is I feel like this all comes back to building trust, you know, and if. If we have a party in Brooklyn that voters trust, that members of the party trust, that, you know, even the district leaders feel like they can trust their leadership to have an honest conversation, then all this becomes so much easier, you know, then no one should feel ashamed to, you know, run as a Democrat or be scared to run as a Democrat in Brooklyn because they'll know that we all have their backs and if we disagree on something, we can have a conversation about it, which is something Julio has been already facilitating. So I think that there's a world where candidates don't have to hedge their bets and say oh, well, maybe, you know, it's not like the Democratic Party is not going to be enough for me. It's a big tent, you know, and there's plenty of room for people that are going to, you know, do great work for their communities in here. And I think that, you know, we have a huge opportunity to build that here in Brooklyn.
- [66:39]
A
Very interesting. All right. Well, we'll keep an eye on things as they develop. But Tony Malone, Caitlin Kawaguchi and Julio Pena iii, thank you for all the time and thoughts. Appreciate it and stay in touch.
- [66:50]
B
Thanks, Ben.
- [66:50]
D
Thanks so much.
- [66:55]
B
Sa. It.