3 Things Every Leader Needs to Thrive

Summary

Maxwell Leadership Podcast
Episode: 3 Things Every Leader Needs to Thrive
Date: September 12, 2025
Host: John Maxwell
Guests: Mark Cole, John Gordon

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together leadership authority John Maxwell and best-selling author and coach John Gordon, with host Mark Cole, to discuss the three essential elements every leader needs to truly thrive: Mission, Team, and Scoreboard. Drawing from personal stories, coaching experience, and years of leadership insight, they break down how each of these components fuels transformational leadership and lasting impact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Necessity of Mission

What is Mission and Why Does It Matter?

• John Maxwell opens the discussion by emphasizing the innate human need for mission. He references Stephen Covey’s “begin with the end in mind,” explaining:
  • “You don’t begin if you’re not sure you have a good end. And so many people... the end is the mission.” (07:49)
  • Having a mission keeps leaders intentional and focused; it prevents distraction and drifting.

Staying Focused Amidst Distractions

• Maxwell shares his father’s advice:
  • “‘Put this before you.’ If we would put it before us, it would expand, get bigger... For distractions, my dad would say: ‘Put that behind you.’” (09:27)
• Leaders must be intentional in pursuing their mission, as “everything worthwhile, it’s uphill.” (07:59)

Finding Your Mission

• John Gordon discusses how people lose their sense of mission at inflection points (e.g., retirement, graduation).
  • “We don’t get burned out because of what we do. We get burned out because we forget why we do it.” (11:35)
• He encourages action, reflection, and—if you’re a person of faith—seeking divine guidance to uncover purpose:
  • “When you seek the One who created you for a purpose, then you’ll find your purpose.” (13:07)

When You Don’t Have a Dream

• Maxwell shares advice for those without a clear dream:
  • “If you don’t have a dream, find somebody that has a dream that appeals to you and join them... Usually, if you do that, God will give you your own dream.” (14:10)

2. The Power of Team

Team as Foundation for Growth

• Gordon defines “team” broadly: work, family, community (17:45) and emphasizes relationships and connection:
  • “If you don’t have a team, you will feel isolated, disconnected… and from that, you will feel weak and powerless.” (18:10)
• The pandemic highlighted the pain of isolation, proving our deep need for relational bonds.
  • “Getting together with great leaders… I left alive, energized, better.” (18:41)
• “When you have a team, you have people who support you, believe in you, encourage you, and challenge you.” (19:25)

Family as Team

• Both Gordons and Maxwells attribute their success to family, especially spouses, as core team members (19:28).

Making Teams Better: Insights from John Maxwell and John Wooden

• Maxwell, recalling advice from Coach John Wooden:
  • “Every day as a coach, I ask the question: How can I make my team better?” (20:34)
  • Maxwell adds his own daily reflection: “How can I be a better leader? Because... if I become a better leader, my team will get better.” (21:25)
• Leaders must avoid placing all improvement responsibility on the team—the leader’s self-growth is critical.

Collaboration vs. Cooperation

• Winning teams move from simple cooperation to active collaboration:
  • “When you collaborate, you want to do things together. ... It is impossible to have great thinking without collaboration.” (24:40)
  • Shared thinking always improves ideas: “I’ve never... walked out of that meeting with a worse idea than I came in. It’s always a better idea.” (25:40)

Leadership Can Be Lonely Without Team

• Gordon notes many leaders are isolated, and real growth happens when leaders come together:
  • “Leaders get better when they come together... Get together, grow together.” (27:11)
• Maxwell agrees, urging leaders to attend growth events with team members for compounding benefits:
  • “If you’re in the room, you got it. If you’re not in the room, it’s not contagious.” (29:10)

3. The Essential Role of a Scoreboard

Why a Scoreboard?

• Gordon explains why tracking progress and knowing what “winning” looks like is vital:
  • “There are two key scoreboards in life. There’s that scoreboard of success—competition... but then there’s that bigger scoreboard of impact.” (31:25)
• True significance comes from pursuing the impact scoreboard, not just short-term wins.

Scoreboard as Self-Awareness and Growth

• Maxwell articulates the necessity for awareness:
  • “You can’t fix what you don’t know... the scoreboard creates awareness and I think that is essential because you can’t fix what you don’t know.” (35:24)
  • Every arena and field has visible scoreboards for this reason.

Personal, Success, and Significance Scoreboards

• Mark Cole summarizes by breaking it down:
  • Personal Scoreboard: How you’re fulfilling your potential
  • Success Scoreboard: Business metrics, KPIs
  • Significance Scoreboard: The difference you make in others’ lives (36:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Maxwell (On Focus & Mission) [09:27]:

  “My father’s favorite word was ‘focus.’ When he wanted us to concentrate, he’d say: ‘Put this before you’... For distractions, he’d say: ‘Put that behind you.’ Because when you don’t see it, it really fades away after a while.”

• John Gordon (On Purpose) [13:07]:

  “When you seek the One who created you for a purpose, then you’ll find your purpose ... I believe when you find a connection to God, you’ll live life so much more meaningfully and powerfully.”

• John Maxwell (On Team & Leadership) [21:25]:

  “The best way to make your team better is for me to lead them better. If I lead them better, they get better… I’m asking: ‘How can I be a better leader?’”

• John Gordon (On Teams & Leaders) [27:11]:

  “When leaders get together, they grow together... It’s not common in leadership, but the more we bring leaders together, you compete, you challenge, but you also support and encourage.”

• John Gordon (On Scoreboard) [31:25]:

  “There are two key scoreboards in life... Success is temporary. Your soul is eternal. Let’s do things that last forever. Focus on the second scoreboard and make an impact.”

• John Maxwell (On Awareness & Scoreboard) [35:24]:

  “You can’t fix what you don’t know. The scoreboard creates awareness... At halftime, if you don’t know the score, what’s your game plan?”

• John Gordon (On Consistency) [40:36]:

  “John telling me, ‘Consistency compounds.’ When you show up every day and you put these ideas into practice... that’s when you see incredible results.”

• John Maxwell (On Self-Investment) [43:05]:

  “The first person you should invest in is yourself. Not because you’re selfish, but because you’re selfless. You cannot give what you do not have.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:31] — Why every leader needs a mission (John Maxwell)
• [11:29] — What to do if you don’t have a mission (John Gordon)
• [14:10] — Advice for those without a dream (John Maxwell)
• [17:41] — Why a team is vital for leaders (John Gordon)
• [20:27] — The importance of making yourself and your team better (John Maxwell)
• [24:40] — Distinguishing collaboration vs. cooperation in teams (John Maxwell)
• [27:11] — The loneliness of leadership without a team (John Gordon)
• [31:19] — The importance of a scoreboard for leaders (John Gordon)
• [35:24] — Scoreboards as a tool for self-awareness and improvement (John Maxwell)
• [36:56] — Different types of scoreboards to track growth and success (Mark Cole)
• [40:36] — Consistency compounds: the key to long-term impact (John Gordon)
• [43:05] — Invest first in yourself, then in your team (John Maxwell)

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Summary Table: The 3 Things Every Leader Needs to Thrive

| Element | Purpose / Benefit | Action Step | |--------------|:---------------------------------------------------------------------:|--------------------------------------------------| | Mission | Provides focus, intentionality, purpose. | Define your WHY and stay focused. | | Team | Offers support, connection, and growth; fosters collaboration. | Build and invest in authentic relationships. | | Scoreboard | Creates awareness; measures success, significance, and progress. | Track your KPIs, growth, and impact metrics. |

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Episode Closing — Final Thoughts

• Consistency is the difference maker. “Consistency compounds,” Maxwell’s mantra, is repeated herein—reminding leaders that what you do daily builds your legacy.
• Invest in yourself first, then in others. Leaders are called to personal growth so they can pour into their teams and communities.
• Find your mission, build your team, keep score. These three elements—well-understood and intentionally applied—are the formula for not only thriving as a leader but for making a lasting, eternal difference.

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For More

• Event mentioned: “A Day with John and John” — visit adaywithjonand.com [JON not JOHN] for details.
• Connect with the podcast and submit questions for future shows.

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This episode is a powerful reminder that thriving in leadership is about clarity of mission, the strength of your relationships, and keeping your progress visible and meaningful. As John Maxwell puts it:

“You cannot give what you do not have and come with someone else and double your investment.” (43:05)

Transcript

[John Gordon]

Foreign.

[Mark Cole]

Hey, welcome back to Maxwell Leadership Podcast. As you already know, you're in for a treat. We try to give you a treat every podcast, but today I've just got to tell you, our founder, our friend, your, and my guide, the leadership guru, in my opinion of the world. John Maxwell is live with us today. John, I always love getting to do it live with you. I miss you when you're not around. So does everybody else. Good to have you here today.

[John Maxwell]

I'm delighted to be with you. I was talking to somebody the other day about the podcast, and they talk about, Mark, how much they love you taking our leadership stuff and making it practical for them. And I said, well, you know, I think we're the number one leadership podcast in the world. And they said, how'd you get there? I said, I don't show up very much, Mark. We found the secret sauce. But every once in a while, Mark lets me on, and this is one of those days. So thanks, buddy.

[Mark Cole]

Well, I'm glad my brother found you that day and told you that I was doing a good job or either that other person that I told that I would pay them if they would tell you I was doing a good job. So I'm really glad they found you. Hey, really? Seriously, Hundreds of thousands of people every single week tune in. Today is a special, not just because John is here, but every once in a while, I'll get somebody that I want on the podcast. And when John hears about it, he says, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. I'm gonna be on there too if this person is on there. And today, that is what has happened, because I have speake author, I've got incredible coach John Gordon on the podcast live with us today. And I'll tell you a little bit more about John Gordon. But John Maxwell, you would not let me have this podcast without you on here live. And that's because John Gordon is not only your friend, but man, you guys do some incredible stuff together. Isn't that right?

[John Maxwell]

We have a blast helping people, adding value to people. What I love about John is he's so practical. You know, he's a communicator. And when he's done, you have a game plan. I mean, sometimes you hear motivational speakers and you feel good the next day, but you're not sure why. You know, it's just you're going around feeling good and happy, but when John, when he's finished with you, you feel good the next day. But you know why? Because he's very practical, very down to earth application. Could be his middle name. You can take what he says and apply it to your life. And so, yes, that's exactly what happens. Mark every once in a while, lets me know who's going to be on the show. And I say, well, wait a min, you know, do I ever get on my show? I mean, is there any kind of founders privileges? And then Mark delays it for two or three days to consider if he should let me on or not. Flips a coin and heads. I'm on tail. And this coin came up right for me.

[Mark Cole]

Well, I wish we would have had the podcast on earlier. Our production team, I wish they could have just started the podcast before we started the podcast. Because to hear John Maxwell and John Gordon interact is always recordable. There's going to be something. There's going to be a pickup. And we spent about 10 minutes before we started the podcast today with John and John Sherry, you know, I'm reminded, and John Gordon, I'm coming to you. I got to spend four days with them around sports, and I'm going to tell you, we watched a lot of football, we had a lot of fun, but the leadership conversations that happens between these two guys is something I wish for every one of you. In fact, I've asked both of them if I could open up an invitation to you podcast family of a day. They're going to spend conversing and talking about leadership, and I'll give you more of that. That's the teaser. You're going to have to stay till the end because we're getting ready to get into some content. But John Gordon, man, you do a lot. You work with sports teams, you've written. I don't know how many books you can tell us in just a minute, but I'll tell you three you've written because they've impacted me personally. You've written the seven commitments of a great team and that's your most recent. I've already started implementing some of that into our team. You wrote the book a couple of years ago called the One Truth. Guys, I'm just going to tell you, if you pick up any book, get that one, because that was a game changer. And then, John, you're probably most known for the energy bus, but tell me what it is about content writing impacting people that just wakes you up every morning. It's good to have you with us, man.

[John Gordon]

Well, as I've learned from John Maxwell, it's always about adding value. Mark, you're the same way. I love you guys. And yeah, when I'm with John, there are two things that happen. I learned something, and I laugh a lot. You know, there's not many people you can say that about, right? You might learn, but you don't laugh. Or you might laugh, but you don't learn. But you learn and you laugh. And so John just makes you feel good. And that's what I love to do as well. I love to impact people. I love to give them tools. As John said, I believe principles inform, but practices transform. And so when we can help people implement these ideas and these practices and you make it simple and you remove the clutter, then you allow people to actually take action and create incredible results. That's what happens. So I've learned a lot from John. It's so funny because I'm coming on this podcast, right? And usually people are like, John, you've written 32 books. How have you done that? They're, like, in awe that I've written 32 books. And I'm with John Maxwell today, who's written over a hundred, right? So I want to ask John, hey, John, how'd you write over a hundred books? Right?

[John Maxwell]

Let me explain something. I have my iPhone here, and you already said, principles inform and practices transform. You see, I'm not texting anybody else. I'm putting it in my quote file right now under your name. So when I write the book, I'll give you credit. No royalties, but I'll give you credit. But I'll do this on this. And here's what I want the people on the podcast to know. If they go spend a day with you and me, they had better bring a lot of paper, because we're just not going to talk about theory. We're going to get it right down to where they are, and we're going to help them. And they're going to be doing what I'm doing right now. I'm taking your quote and I'm filing it right now because I don't want to lose it. So if you see me doing this, I'm not texting anybody else. I'm just listening to John Gordon, and he's teaching me something that I want that I don't want to lose. And if you don't file it, you lose it. So anyway, we're going to. We're going to have a great day. We're going to. We're going to help a lot of people, John.

[Mark Cole]

I'm glad you said that, John, because many of you have been looking for the excuse to go from just a podcast listener to a podcast viewer. And if you would like to view this podcast or we're going to reference a couple of links throughout the day throughout this content. And if you'd like to view the podcast, if you would like to look at a couple of the links that we're going to provide throughout the show today. So if you'll go to maxwellpodcast.com John Gordon, you'll be able to get the show notes. John and John, it's interesting because you guys were talking about the three things every leader needs to thrive. The three things. And again, I've read both of you, I follow both of you, and I think you've lived a life of helping people with these three things. And the first thing that you say that every leader needs to thrive to succeed, to be successful is a mission is something that wakes them up in the morning, something that keeps them up at night. And John Maxwell, I'd love to go to you first and just go, why does every leader need a mission?

[John Maxwell]

Because we were born to have a mission. I mean, we were born to do something that's beneficial on purpose. You know, go back to Stephen Covey's Habits book. You know, what does he say? Begin with the end in mind. When he says begin with the end of mind, what he's saying is, have a mission. In other words, have something at the end that is so great that it causes you every day to begin that journey, to continue getting toward that mission. You know, you don't begin if you're not sure you have a good end. And so many people. And so the end is the mission. The end is the big picture. The end is what you're probably called for. You know, that's just huge. So you have to be. When I think of mission, I think of intentional living. I think of being intentional. No one ever got a mission or stayed on the course unintentionally. And intentional living, intentional thinking, intentional actions, it's so essential because as I teach, everything worthwhile, it's uphill. It's all uphill. So if it's all uphill, you have to be intentional to get there. And if you have a dream, if you have a mission, it's something worthwhile. And something worthwhile takes a long time and you have to climb. No one ever drifted to success. And, you know, in fact, if you drift, you always get to some undesired location, to be honest with you. So mission is so important because it keeps us. It keeps us focused. Because, you know, one of the questions, Mark, you're with me a lot. We're getting. And when I speak a lot, one of the questions I'm getting a lot recently in the last year are people that are asking me all the time about distractions. How do you keep from being distracted? And we live in such a fast social kind of culture where you're just kind of going for quick hits and quick thumbs ups and everything else. And all of a sudden I realize people are really getting distracted a lot. And the reason I bring that up is because we're mission. Mission causes you to focus. And what happens is when you focus on something, it expands. When you focus on something, it gets bigger and more clear. In fact, my father, when we were younger, that was one of his favorite words, focus. And when he wanted us to really concentrate, focus on something, he had a phrase. He'd say, put this before you. He said, put this before you. Because he knew if we would put it before us, it would be clear and it would expand, it would get bigger. He also had another expression for distractions or something that wasn't important. He said, put that behind you, put that behind you. Because, you know, the moment I put something behind me, everything gets smaller. When you don't see it, it just really kind of fades away after a while. And so when we think of mission, we have to be intentional. We have to begin with the end of the mind. And I think the asset of mission is it causes us to focus, which allows us now not to be distracted with distractions because we're living a bigger life than what those distractions are. And it begins to expand, it begins to become clear. Let's put it this way, I've never known a successful person at the end of their life said, I just don't know what I lived my life for. Every person, that wraps it up well, started it well because they had something to focus on called mission that kept.

[Mark Cole]

Them on the right track for 25 years. John, you've lived on mission, you've known your mission, you've lived on mission, and you've inspired people with your mission. But John Gordon, let me ask you, what do you do if you don't have a mission? How do you find a mission?

[John Gordon]

That's a great question because we, we talk about the importance of a, of a mission. We don't get burned out because of what we do. We get burned out because we forget why we do it. And as John said, you know, when you know your why, you'll know the way. You're not going to let obstacles get in the way. And the best thing a leader can provide is clarity. And when you have clarity, as John was. Was alluding to, you get focused action and. And purpose. The mission gives you that focus, action. So we know we're better when we. When we're living on mission. We have a mission. But what happens when you don't have one? And that's a big challenge because, you know, think about the guy who retires and he had a mission every day at his company. He had a mission every day at his nonprofit or his church. He know. He knew what he was waking up for every day. And then you retire, you no longer have that mission. That person needs to find a new mission. Or the kid who's in high school. And the goal was to get into college. The mission was to get into a great college. We've all been there with our. Our kids. Well, many of us have. I know you have Mark. Myself as well. And then now you're in college, the mission's done. You have to create a new mission. And so every day, if you don't have one, the goal in life is to find that why, find that mission. And if you don't have one, I really believe you have to start asking and reflecting, and you have to start thinking about, how can I live on mission, live on purpose? Start being intentional to say, how can I be of use for the good of others? How can I add value? How could I make a difference? When I start living on purpose and you start living on purpose, you become a conduit for a greater purpose that wants to use you and will reveal your greater purpose to you. But if you're not taking action, living on purpose, your purpose will never find you. So start being more intentional. Look for ways to make a difference. I'm a person of faith, and I do believe that we have to seek the One who created us for a purpose. And when you seek the One who created you for a purpose purpose and has a purpose, then you'll find your purpose. We're all seeking our purpose, right? Rick Warren wrote the book Purpose driven life. Over 100 million copies. Everyone's looking for their purpose. I believe when you find a connection to God, you actually will find your purpose and your why, and you'll live life so much more meaningfully and powerfully.

[John Maxwell]

You know, John, if I can just jump in here for a moment, I wrote a book a few years ago called Put yout Dream to the Test. And so I started teaching on it after I wrote it. And one of my big surprises was people come up to me and they would say, I love the book, but I don't have a dream. Honestly, I wrote that whole book assuming everybody had a dream. And then I get this wake up call, my first talk on it. People say, well, I don't have a dream. So then I thought, oh, my gosh, it was a terrible miss. So then I began to ask myself, well, how can I help people don't have a dream. And it took me two or three times to figure it out, but I didn't figure it out. And what I tell them is this. If you don't have a dream, find somebody that has a dream that appeals to you and join them. Just go join them on their dream. And what happens is if you get someone else's dream that you're really kind of in love with too, now you're living that purpose life. But what happens is, usually if you go and do that for a period of time, God will give you your own dream, and it's just a matter of time. So I think purpose, I think for people who think, well, I don't think I have a purpose yet, go find somebody that has a good purpose that you can really identify with and jump in and help them. What a wonderful thing to do. Help somebody with their purpose. I think once you get around people that do this, it begins to be contagious.

[John Gordon]

And you know, when, John, when people have been around us together at these events we've done together, what's cool is they have reported to me, you know what? I am now ready to go live on purpose. And I feel like this purpose, this greater purpose, there's something for me, and I'm excited about it. So they leave excited, knowing they're here to do something. They're not quite sure what, but they know there's something they're meant to do that's greater.

[John Maxwell]

And.

[John Gordon]

And you know, the research shows people are most energized when they're using their strengths and their gifts for a bigger purpose beyond themselves. So your mission is always going to be bigger than you and John. You have demonstrated that for all of us.

[John Maxwell]

Well, and one last quick thought on that is what I like about when we get together with people like this event we're going to have, John, is we give people permission. Yeah, we give people permission to kind of do what they kind of want to do. But nobody ever walked in their life and said, that's a good thing. And sometimes it isn't a great push. Sometimes it's just like, if you don't mind, I'll just open the gate for you no, just walk through it. And I think when we're together, we're going to give a lot of. We're going to open a lot of gates. We're going to have people that are in that room that are real close, but they're not there yet. And we're just going to give them permission. And I think they're going to walk through that gate, and I think they're going to look at you and me a few months later and say, now that was a day that was worth my time.

[Mark Cole]

You know, it's so interesting that even sitting with you guys here anytime, I'm with great thinkers, great communicators, but great doers, too. Both of you guys have done some incredible things I walk away better for. And podcast listeners, tune in, because right now, you're hearing two greats connect. You know what I love about both of you? You're. You write, you're kind of on the stage by yourself, but I've heard both of you talk about your need for a team to thrive. You're only as good as your team. And that's not just a statement for both of you. You actually live. Fat John started this podcast off talking about the podcast and him allowing me and our production team to be a part of this. I would like to ask you, John Gordon, when we say team, we're talking about people you connect with, you learn with that, you grow with them. Why is this so important?

[John Gordon]

Yeah, I believe we have a work team. We have a family team. You might have a community team with your church, your nonprofit. And a team is all about relationships. It's about connection. It's about joining together to accomplish something meaningful, something impactful, something great. A team has a purpose. And a team is a living, breathing organism. And we were made for relationships. This is why team is so important. If you don't have a team, you will feel isolated, you will feel disconnected, you will feel separate, and from that, you will feel weak and powerless. Look what happened during the pandemic. So many people felt powerless because they were disconnected and separated. It showed people how much we really need relationships and need others. That's what changed my life, actually. After the pandemic, I realized how important relationships were, and I made that my number one priority. So getting together with great leaders like John, spending time with you, Mark, and we went to those football games together. I probably wouldn't have done that in the past, but by spending time together, I left alive, energized. Better.

[John Maxwell]

That was fun.

[John Gordon]

Yeah, fun, but also better. Like, I Became a better person. My word for the year, dependence was the result of us spending time together doing that. So. So, yeah, when I'm. When I'm older, my word will be depends. But right now it's dependent.

[John Maxwell]

Right now you're on depend. And some days you'll just leave that dance and go to the pen. But you know what? When we're together, when you talk about team, what he's talking about is we have what we call a football feast. And the day after Thanksgiving, we literally go to four football games in three days and just have so much fun together. And we're going to do it again this year.

[John Gordon]

We are. We are. And again, you said, hey, do you want to come again? Yes, I'm. I am. I am in and. And from there. Right? We just had this bond. Well, when you have a team, you have people who support you, believe in you, encourage you, and challenge you. And you can't go through life alone. No one creates success alone. So I think that's the power of a team. They make you better. They challenge you. And I, my. My wife is my team. My kids are my team. Inviting them, my wife, man, I would be in big trouble. And John. John could probably say the same thing. Like, we needed our wives. Mark, you could say the same thing. They.

[Mark Cole]

Yeah, I can't say the same thing. But I to you, I'll tell you, without Catherine, I don't know where you would be, buddy.

[John Gordon]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Cole]

She's not only the blue, she's the champion. That's for sure.

[John Maxwell]

She's captain. She's captain.

[Mark Cole]

John, you've written a lot about teamwork. 17 laws of teamwork. You have demonstrated teams, you talk to a lot of teams. What would you add to this concept of a thriving leader needs a team?

[John Maxwell]

Well, John Wooden was the great coach for ULCLA, and he was a mentor of mine for 14 years. In fact, the last thing he did before he passed away was write the foreword for my book, Sometimes yous Win, Sometimes yous Learn. Just a great. A great coach, very wise person. And one day we were talking and he said to me, he said, you know, every day as a coach, I asked myself the same question. I thought, man, I gotta write this down. If he does it every day. I said, coach, what is it? And he said, I ask every day the question, how can I make my team better? Because he said, that's my responsibility, to make my team better. And we had dozens over the next few years conversations about how you make your team better. And I thought we had A breakthrough moment one day when we were talking about, how do you make a team better? And I said, coach, I've been thinking about it because it's such a great question every day, how can I make my team better? I said, I think I've got another question that maybe could get into that, be as important as every day. And he was so humble. He's ready to learn himself. I mean, he's in his 90s, and he leans into me and gets that John Wooden smile. And he said, john, he said, well, what's the question maybe I should ask every day? I said, well, coach, you don't need to ask it every day because you've already excelled. But I said, I ask it every day, and it's not, how can I make my team better? The question really I'm asking myself is, how can I be a better leader? Because you know what? If I could become a better leader, my team will get better. I think sometimes in leadership roles, we kind of put a little bit too much on the team, and the best way to make your team better is for me to lead them better. If I lead them better, they get better. And if I don't lead them better, they don't get better. And then I remember. Talk about fun experience. One time, John, Rick Hendrick asked me to come up. Of course, he's known for automobiles. He's got, I think, like a hundred automobile stores around America, but he's also nascar, so he's kind of got two games going, selling cars. He's got race cars out there, and he's very successful in both of them. Very, very successful. And he called me one day on the phone. He said, john, I want you to come up, talk to my racers. And I said, okay, so what do you want me to talk about? He said, well, he said, you know, he said, we have three different groups race, and they're kind of like they're all on the same team, but they're three different groups. And he said, they're competitive. And he said, I want them to share ideas, but sometimes they don't share ideas because they're wanting to beat the other team. And he said, your speech has to be, how can you be a competitor on the same team and make each other better? I said, you're asking me to do something impossible. I mean, I don't think. I. I'm not sure I can do that. And I. I really went up there. I went up to Charlotte, and there he had all. He had not only his. His drivers, but he had all the pit crew, he had probably, I don't know, maybe 150 people in the room. And I spent two hours with them on. On. How do you. I mean, there's a, there's an edge there. You know, I, I want to win. And yet really, if we win, it's a victory for, for Hendrick Motor. And that day I talked to them about characteristics of winning teams. And I'll have to say I worked hard on that lesson. And, you know, just let me just. There are six points, in fact, maybe on the day of our day to grow when we're together, if I could have, because I don't have time on this podcast, maybe I can have 10 or 12 minutes and really work them through that. Because when I got finished, I'm watching competitive drivers high fiving each other and Rick's look at me says, that's never been done before. That's never been done before. But, but one of the things. And I said, I said several things, but one of the things that I spoke about that day is that winning teams collaborate together. You know, and his teams were cooperating, but they weren't collaborating. See, when you cooperate. Okay, let's sit down. Okay, let's do some things together. But when you collaborate, you want to do things together. It's not like this is. Well, we got our meeting. Okay, we got to go to the meeting here. It's like, let's get to the meeting because we're going to make each other better. And I talked about the fact that it is impossible to have great thinking without collaboration. That, you know, Mark, the three of us are on this podcast. Let me tell you something. If you have a good idea and I have a good idea, and John has a good idea, and we get in a room and we share those ideas, we just say, here's what I'm thinking. This might make us better. Here's what I know. If Mark, you have a good idea and you bring John and myself into that conversation and say, help me improve that idea within 30 minutes, we'll improve the idea because we have different perspectives and we're trying to aggressively help one another. Same with me. If I throw out an idea, you two are going to make a. Here's what I know. In collaborative, shared thinking, I have never, and I've done this hundreds of times, by the way. I've never gone into a meeting with something that I wanted my team to think about and give me feedback on. Not one time have I ever walked out of that meeting with a worse idea that I Came in. It's always a better idea. They always, always, always uplevel me. And I think that's a big miss so many times in teamwork that we just don't understand the incredible value that each one of us, we can bring something to the table, that if we don't bring it to the table, the other two of us aren't going to get it and we're not going to quite be all that we possibly get. So shared thinking, I think is so important in team and the willingness, the ability to, to share those thoughts to make the team better.

[John Gordon]

And here's what's so cool about this, Mark and John, this is so cool because I spoke to a bunch of training camps the last few weeks and what I talk about, competing for each other, not against each other. I said, when you guys are practicing every day, you're trying to make the team, you're trying to make the team over the other guy, battle together, compete for each other. You're making each other better. I also spoke to the Hendrick auto team and also the racing team, Jimmy Johnson's racing team. Same thing, John, which is cool to hear you talk about that. This is a great example. It exemplifies. Here we are talking. It's spurring things in me, making me think, which is what we're going to do on our day, when we have that day with and we're going to help people build stronger teams. But when I think about leaders, leaders often don't participate or get involved as a team. They don't have a team. A lot of times leadership can be lonely, as you know. And I think more leaders need to find other team members they can bounce ideas off of, sharpen each other, challenge each other. And that's really not common in the leadership world. And I think the more we bring leaders together and you work together, you get to learn from each other. Guess what? You're going to compete, you're going to challenge, but you're going to support, encourage, and then you're going to get better together. So I know you do that, John. You bring leaders together. That's what I'm passionate about. I watched you do that when we were at that Kingdom Leadership Network. I was sitting next to you and I heard it loud and clear. Learn from him. Learn from him. And ever since, I have been bringing more and more leaders together like you have all these years. You're the model for that. But when leaders get together, they grow together. They get together, they grow together. And that is what needs to happen more for leaders, yeah. You've got your team, but you'll be around other leaders. And when you are, you're going to grow as a leader. Then you go back and you're a better leader for your team. And guess what? You might be competing against the same people in the same room. You might be competing against those people. But guess what? I know Rick Hendrick and I know Rick Childress. Two amazing guys, right? They compete, but they're also friends. And they make each other better.

[John Maxwell]

And I have to tag off on this for a moment because you said something. Leaders get better when they come together. And what's going to happen in our day is we're going to have 100 leaders or whatever. We've got a number there of leaders that are going to be together in that room and they're going to be learning from each other. But let me tell you a mistake that I made big time when I was a young leader. I learned it quickly and I'm glad I did because it made all the difference in the world. I used to come to these events like we're talking about here by myself. So I come by myself and man, I take all these notes. Oh, my gosh, I got it. And then I go sit down. My team have a team meeting I want to have. Let me share you what happened. Let me show you what I heard. Let me here. And I'm going. And they're politely taking notes, but I don't have their heart. I got their mind. And I began to ask myself, now, why aren't they as excited as I am? And all of a sudden, it's because they weren't there. Let me just say this. You're either in the room or you're not. And if you're in the room, you got it. It's contagious. If you're not in the room, you'll get it, but it's not contagious. So as we're talking about, I'm going to say, I wouldn't come alone if I were you. Find your a player, maybe the person you're just really mentoring, and say, let's go do this day together. I will promise you you'll learn from the other leaders. But because you have one or two of your people there, you'll learn from each. You'll get. You'll get that double learning experience. And that's what's going to really make that day compound tremendously.

[Mark Cole]

And what John and John are talking about is the day with John on November 3rd, I'm going to tell you how to get there. But you're going to have to wait because I got one more point. So just stay tuned. In fact, if you're on a treadmill, you might want to stop for a moment, take a breather, listen to the last point, and then get your ready to sign up. Because, by the way, there's only 100 people. 100 people is all that's going to be in this room. And so I know you're going to want to hear a lot more of this a day, even some of you, a day and a half of what we're experiencing on this podcast. And so I'm not telling you the link now. Keep running, but get to a stopping point because I'm going to go to the last point. Guys, that we talked about. What is it that makes a leader thrive? We talked about mission, we talked about team. There's another two. There's another one that you two agreed on, and that is a scoreboard. The ability to know where you are in the game and to know what a win looks like. John Gordon, what is it about a scoreboard that's so important?

[John Gordon]

We all need that scoreboard. We were designed that way. We love to measure progress. We need to chase things. We need a goal that we want to achieve. Everybody needs a scoreboard on their journey. And I really believe that there are two key scoreboards in life. There's that scoreboard of success. That's that competition that John was talking about. You compete, you're out there working hard, you want to create success, and you're striving and you're trying to thrive. But then there's that bigger scoreboard. And that bigger scoreboard is, is the scoreboard of impact. It's about significance. It's about changing lives, transforming lives. And I think that we learn along this journey how to compete on the first scoreboard. And. And God has designed this as our path and as we do. Because I asked John Maxwell, when we were together, I said, john, are you competitive? He goes, oh, I'm very competitive. I'm very good. And then I played pickleball with Tim Tebow recently. Me versus Tim in singles. 90 degrees, 3pm in the afternoon. One of the most competitive person I've ever met. And there's Tim competing. And in between our. Our breaks, you know, in between our games, we're talking, and he's showing me the lives that he's saving through his. His foundation. They're fighting sex trafficking. He's like, hey, we just saved five girls. And I realized, wow, God, Gave this guy a competitive spirit to fight so that ultimately he will learn to fight for the good. And we learn how to compete and fight, so we learn how to fight for the good. And I think of John Maxwell with that and equip as well. Like, John has created this equip. And when I'm with John, here's John. John's like, hey, we've saved so many souls this week. You know, we have a counter. We're actually measuring it. Think about that. He's measuring it. The organization of equip is measuring it. Why? Because we need a scoreboard. Even when it comes to significance, it keeps us going. It allows us to continue to fight and to thrive. And we are human beings. We're designed that way. So here's John thinking about how can we save more souls every single day? And he's got the number, and he wants to grow the number. And I just love that. I was so enthralled by that mission and that attempt to save even more and impact even more people and develop more people in all these countries and raise up kids in the schools of other countries. Like, the impact that equip is having. I was so inspired, so encouraged that my wife and I, because she heard it as well, she was bought in. She was loving it as much as I was. She's like, we need to do this. I said, I know we need to do this. And we got involved with equipment and John and you, Mark, because why? Because it literally is impacting souls. Success is temporary. Your soul is eternal. Let's do things that last forever. Right? Forever. A forever impact. In my seven commitments of a great team, it talks about teammates are forever. Do you want forever teammates? Do you want to be a forever leader? Focus on the second scoreboard and make an impact. So I just want to say that you guys weren't expecting this, but. But I. I just. But I know. I know the hard work you do behind the scenes, and I don't think people see that, but I do. And I just want people to know, like, this is an organization worthy of your time, your energy, your resources, your tithe you're giving to make an impact because they're impacting souls, which is eternal. And guess what? They're measuring it. And that's a great measurement to have on that second scoreboard. And I've never been more excited to get involved in something. So talk about mission. That's mission. It gives you a team. We're working to make each other better and making the lives of others better. And then Scoreboard, you have all three. You have a fulfilled life and a thriving life. It's just exciting. I just get so excited talking about it.

[John Maxwell]

You know, John, I love what you're saying about scoreboard. And I wrote a book a few years ago called no Limits. And basically the no Limits book says this. If you want to reach your potential, there are three things that you have to have. You have to have awareness, you have to have giftedness, and you have to make the right choices. And the first part, awareness, is all about the scoreboard. You can't fix what you don't know. And if you go to any sporting event, you go to a major sporting event, there's one thing that every sporting event has, and that is they have scoreboards, and they have them invisible. They have them so visible that no matter where you are in the arena or on the field, you could look up there and you can see the score. You've never gone to a Coliseum or a football thing, and the scoreboard is outside and it's not in the arena. And why is that? Because the game is all about the score. In other words, how can you make adjustments if you don't know what the score is? The awareness of where you are allows you to make the changes you need to improve. I mean, at halftime, if you go in, you don't know what the score is. What's your game plan? So the scoreboard creates awareness, and I think that is essential because you can't fix what you don't know. But the moment you know it, now you can do something about it. And so I think that everybody needs to have a scoreboard in their life, and especially the one you were talking about, one that is about others, that really takes us to a level of significance.

[Mark Cole]

I love John Maxwell, what John Gordon said there. And in my mind, I just got this vision of three scoreboards in Mark Cole's life. And you're you podcast listener. How are you doing? Compared to how the potential that's in you, how. How well is your personal scoreboard? How are you doing? What are you measuring? What is that scoreboard? We talk a lot here on the podcast about personal growth and life architecting the life you want to live. What's your personal scoreboard? I love the scoreboard that we all care about, and that's our KPIs, that's our business, that's our success scoreboard. And then John Gordon, you did a great job talking about Tim Tebow, John Maxwell's significant scoreboard. And so the big takeaway for Me thriving leader is that you need that personal scoreboard. You need that success scoreboard. You need that significant scoreboard. Guys, I've got to tell you, this episode is coming to an end, but the conversation is not coming to an end. John Maxwell, John Gordon on November 3rd are going to continue not only this conversation, but a much deeper conversation into personal performance, personal success, how to be significant. You take the aggregate impact that they will have. You take the aggregate number of relationships that they will meet between now and November 3rd, and they already, they don't even know yet. All they're going to teach because they're growing and interacting with people between now and game day, which for us is November 3rd. So get ready. Write this URL down. You ready? We'll put this in the show note as well, but I'm going to have to spell it out for a couple of reasons. The URL you want to go to. Guys, there's only 100 people and we've already got some professional athletes, some very successful business leaders. That's already taken up more than half the spots. We don't have many spots left, but I said to John Maxwell and John Gordon, if we're going to do a podcast, I've got to give them a next step to get engaged with you, too. And they gave up some of the spots for this event. That's already happening. Going to happen. They gave it up to you. Podcast listener, podcast viewer. Get ready. Here's the URL. A Day with John and Dot com. I got to spell it out to you because John Gordon spells his name either correctly or incorrectly. I'm gonna let these two fight this out, but incorrectly. John Maxwell says so. You know, it's not spelled like John Maxwell's. A Day with John and Dot com. A D A Y with W I T H J O N J O N A N D. A Day with john and.com will get you to that link. You'll see two things on that link. The full day, that's going to be epic. I'm going to be there. 99 other people plus you are going to be there. And John. And John, of course, will be there. But some of you would like to come in the night before for a special dinner with just a handful of people. You'll see that at that website as well. A Day with John and Dot Com. J O N A N D Dot com. A Day with John and Dot com. Hey, by the way, if you have some questions on the event, John Gordon has made one of his teammates accessible to you. Her email is Angela a n g e l a Angelaeon Gordon.com again j o n g o r d o-n.com John Maxwell. John Gordon. Thank you. John Gordon. I'm going to let you say anything else that you would like to say and then, John Maxwell, I'm going to let you send us off for the day. John Gordon.

[John Gordon]

I just keep getting this vision of John Maxwell and I sitting there at an event and John telling me, consistency compounds. Consistency compounds. And I have never forgotten that because when you show up every day and you put these ideas into practice, those principles that inform and the practices transform, that's when you see incredible results. John, every day has been doing this work, impacting lives, impacting others. We talked about equip and getting involved at equip. I've never seen him more excited when he's talking about equip and the impact and the numbers of people he's impacting. That scoreboard keeps you going. I want to encourage you listening today, have that scoreboard as Mark talked about, and if you don't have it, it. If you don't know what that scoreboard is, start with the mission, get clear in the why. Start building your team, great relationships. Start investing in others and allowing others to invest in you. Get around a great group of people, whether it's our event or another event in the future. Start getting around people who you can connect with. You need that team to uplift you, to encourage you. We're better together. And then lastly, you know, have that scoreboard that drives you every single day. It's okay to be competitive. The best in the world at what they do are competitive, but use that competition for good. Sada oh, the Japanese baseball player. He was the Japanese Babe Ruth. He always looked at his competition as his partner in growth. So you're a competition in business out in the world, that's your partner in growth. Use it to grow every day. Use adversity to grow and use great moments and challenges together to help you grow.

[John Maxwell]

You know, John, Scottish Scheffler is the name in golf right now. They're just saying he's the greatest golfer playing. And in fact, he just tied a record that's 50 years old. He just had the most consecutive top 10 golf finishes of any golfer. They had to go back 50 years to Jack Nicklaus that had that many top 10 finishes. And so I was in conversation just yesterday with a golfer and he said to me, he said, do you know why he is so consistent on the golf course? Well, you know, why is he so consistent, he says, because he consistently plays. He said you watch his schedule on the golf tournament compared to the other golfers, he doesn't miss golf tournaments. And he keeps that game really sharp because he keeps playing that game. It goes back to consistency compounds. You know, I can see for our day that we're having. This is going to be an investment day for you. The first person you should invest in is yourself. Not because you're selfish, but because you're selfless. Because you cannot give what you do not have. Nothing is worse than a leader who has people to follow and he has nowhere to take them. He has nothing to give. So come and invest in yourself so that you can invest in others. You cannot give what you do not have and come with someone else and double your investment. We talk about what's going to be my return. Well, I can tell you right now, if you come alone, you'll get an alone person return. But if you come with a right hand player now, you've got a compounding return and investment. So I'm going to say you come. But if at all possible, bring someone with you. You will have an incredible investment day.

[Mark Cole]

Hey, John Gordon, thank you for you're on the road, man. You're meeting with professional teams that you took time, pulled away to add value to our podcast family. Podcast family listeners, viewers, let us know, let us know on YouTube, let us know on Spotify. Wherever you listen to the podcast, give us a comment, let us know how well we're doing. Maybe you have a question for John Maxwell or John Gordon. Submit a question, we'll find a way to get it to you. Your comments matter. Thanks for giving us a high rating on wherever you rate this podcast. That helps us get the word out. So John Gordon, thank you. Hey, by the way, thank you and Katherine for being a part of our nonprofit. We don't take that lightly. And you said some nice words about that. We didn't ask you to. You just wanted to do that. Thank you. And you don't just talk it, you do it. Y' all are actually helping us make big change for young people and, and people that don't know really their higher purpose. And you guys are making a difference. John Maxwell, you never cease to amaze me with your friends, people like John Gordon that you bring into our world. And thank you for that. And again, podcast listener, thank you for leading. Well, the world around us needs powerful, positive change and everyone deserves to be led. Well, see you next episode.

[John Maxwell]

Sam.