Maxwell Leadership Podcast

Episode: 6 Steps to Successful Personal Change (Part 2)

Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Mark Cole
Guest: Traci Morrow
Featuring: Dr. John C. Maxwell

Episode Overview

This episode is the continuation of a two-part series unpacking John Maxwell’s “6 Steps to Successful Personal Change.” In Part 2, the focus is on the final three steps in John’s change process, with practical and personal insights about converting attitude change into behavior, improving performance, and ultimately transforming your life. The discussion also explores the vulnerability, awkwardness, and cost of real change, along with how leaders can persevere through these hurdles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Step 4: When You Change Your Attitude, You Change Your Behavior

• John Maxwell explains: Shifting your attitude directly impacts your actions. Attention determines action—where your focus lies, behavior follows.
• Leaders must first make the personal journey of change themselves before guiding others; don’t be a "travel agent," be a "tour guide."
  • John: “Too many leaders try to be travel agents instead of tour guides. They try to send people where they’ve never been. We give them a brochure, a bon voyage, and off they go... A tour guide says, ‘Let me take you where I’ve been.’” (03:11)
• Practical “attitude change” checklist:
  • Evaluate your current attitudes
  • Strengthen faith over fear
  • Write a statement of purpose
  • Clarify your desire to change
  • Live one day at a time
  • Cultivate good habits and thought patterns
  • Enlist a supportive community
  • Learn from mistakes and seek successful experiences

Step 5: When You Change Your Behavior, You Change Your Performance

• Performance doesn’t change until behavior does.
  • John: “If change is not awkward, it’s not change. Awkwardness is natural... People would rather be comfortable than correct.” (04:32)
• Key insight: It’s not enough to simply “practice.” “Practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes permanent.” (05:38) Practicing the wrong way just makes mistakes consistent.
• Action is the transition point from internal change to external impact (“action is where we get traction”).

Step 6: When You Change Your Performance, You Change Your Life

• True transformation occurs only after consistent improvement in performance.
• John: “When you change your performance, then, and I would say only then, you change your life.” (06:40)

The Awkwardness and Vulnerability in Change

• Both Mark and Traci share the vulnerability and discomfort in acting on positive intentions.
  • Traci: “Number four...is taking that first step and it feels very vulnerable. It’s all the work that you’ve done to see if it’s actually going to work.” (12:30)
  • Mark: “You’ve got to take that first step...and you don’t want to take that first step because you don’t know how...But you’re not going to ever get it if you don’t take that step.” (13:49)

Practicing and Progressing Through Awkwardness

• Surround yourself with those further along the journey; feedback and continuous improvement are essential.
• Mark: “The best way I know to make sure that my practice does not become permanently bad...is realizing that the key to success is constantly not only acting, but changing and improving your actions along the way and getting constant feedback.” (15:47)
• Different stages require different feedback loops—sometimes affirmation, sometimes critique.
  • Mark’s story: Public critique by John Maxwell was humbling but ultimately liberating. Sharing how he progressed from needing affirmation to seeking honest feedback was critical in his journey from “good” to “great.” (18:25–23:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Maxwell: “Practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes permanent. If you’re practicing wrong, you don’t get better...you just get more consistently wrong.” (05:38)
• John Maxwell: “Change makes a person feel alone, even if others are going through it...There’s something about the awkwardness and the time that it takes to make proper changes that just seems to isolate you.” (06:47)
• John Maxwell: “Hope is the foundational principle for all change...the only thing that will motivate them to make that change is the belief it will or it can get better.” (06:47)
• Mark Cole: “This is the traction place. This is where your actions really begin to match your words.” (10:42)
• Traci Morrow: “Nobody stays walking awkwardly forever. I don’t have a 32-year-old son who is still walking around like a toddler...they figure it out.” (14:48)
• Mark Cole: “I think we’ve got to relieve ourselves from greatness when we get started at anything. But at some point, you have to transition from the mindset that I’m just trying to be pretty good to, I now want to be great.” (22:21)
• Mark Cole’s Two Buckets for Criticism: Distinguishing “insight” (from the masses) and “feedback” (from trusted, invited voices). Only feedback from people who know your journey should guide real change. (25:03)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:08 – Introductions; recap of Part 1 and transition to today’s steps
• 01:46 – John Maxwell: Step 4 – Attitude to Behavior
• 04:32 – John Maxwell: Step 5 – Behavior to Performance, “awkwardness is natural”
• 05:38 – “Practice doesn’t make perfect. Practice makes permanent.”
• 06:40 – Step 6 – Performance to Life Change; Four final comments on change
• 10:42 – Mark and Traci: The “traction” in taking real action
• 13:49 – Mark’s analogy: Leadership and learning to walk as a toddler
• 15:47 – Feedback vs. affirmation and improvement through repetition
• 18:25–23:15 – Mark’s personal journey: From public critique to confidence and greatness
• 25:03 – Managing feedback and criticism: Input vs. feedback, handling social media critiques
• 29:06 – The cost (“invoice”) of real change: How Mark counts and manages the cost
• 31:23 – Dealing with isolation during periods of change, good vs. bad isolation
• 33:31 – Cultivating hope: How broad vision and higher narrative motivate ongoing personal growth
• 35:00 – Listener question: Managing time and the myth of perfect balance

Core Takeaways

• Personal change is an inside-out process: It starts with thinking and beliefs, but it only becomes reality when attitude shifts to visible behavior, and sustained behavioral change leads to lasting life change.
• Leaders must go first: You can’t take others where you haven’t been; real credibility comes from modeling, not just messaging.
• Awkwardness and discomfort are proof of genuine change, not failure: Expect vulnerability, setbacks, and the need for resilience at every new step.
• Improvement depends on conscious, corrected practice: “Practice makes permanent”—seek feedback and adapt rather than just repeat.
• Not all feedback is equal: Differentiate between ‘insight’ from the outside world and trusted ‘feedback’ from those invested in your journey.
• Hope is essential: It drives the belief that positive change is possible, despite obstacles.
• Balance is a myth; tension is reality: Managing competing priorities dynamically is part of the change journey.

Additional Resources

• Download Bonus Resource: maxwellpodcast.com/successfulchange
• Relevant episodes: “Success: Keep it Simple” and “Live Life Rich” (referenced by Mark and Traci)

In the words of John Maxwell:
“You’re responsible for the changes that you make in your life. But the good news is you can make the changes you need to make in your life.” (08:38)