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How Serving Others Unlocks Self-Discovery

Maxwell Leadership Podcast

Wed Apr 01 2026

Summary

Maxwell Leadership Podcast
Host: John Maxwell
Episode: How Serving Others Unlocks Self-Discovery
Date: April 1, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the transformative power of servanthood in leadership, specifically how serving others becomes a catalyst for profound self-discovery. John Maxwell, joined by co-hosts Chris Robinson and Mark Cole, draws from pivotal moments with figures like Zig Ziglar to illustrate how shifting focus from self to others marks a turning point not only in leadership effectiveness but also in understanding oneself. The trio dives into the nuances of responsibility, motive, and teamwork, sharing personal stories and actionable insights to help listeners unlock their own journey of self-discovery through service.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Influencers: Zig Ziglar’s Impact

Personal Stories of Impact
- Chris Robinson recounts a transformative bathroom meeting with Zig Ziglar, underscoring the unexpected moments in which wisdom and direction can be imparted. Zig’s advice to pursue his purpose wholeheartedly left an indelible mark.
  - Quote: “He says, young man...I don't know what you're here for, but whatever it is, pursue it with all your heart, and I'll see you at the top.” — Chris Robinson recounting Zig Ziglar (02:41)
- Mark Cole shares how Zig Ziglar helped him reframe a childhood insecurity (having red hair), highlighting the importance of seeing ourselves through another’s encouragement.

Servanthood as Self-Discovery (John Maxwell Teaching)

Early Misconceptions of Leadership
- John describes his youthful view of leadership as “getting people to serve my vision,” which changed dramatically after hearing Zig’s teaching in Dayton, Ohio.
  - Quote: “If you would help other people get what they want, that in the end, they would help you get what you want. And that was the day that I realized...I had this servanthood thing completely misunderstood.” — John Maxwell (07:28)
- This encounter prompted a paradigm shift: true leadership is more about serving people than gathering followers for one’s own dream.
The Motive Question
- John emphasizes the critical self-inquiry: “Why do I want to be a leader?” He warns that self-centered motives lead leadership astray.
  - Quote: “Many, many times we want to become a leader because we feel there are benefits for us, and it's too much about us and it's too little about others.” — John Maxwell (08:46)
Valuing People Over “Fixing” Them
- John contrasts “helping the hurting” and “fixing the broken,” which can paradoxically be self-serving, with serving because we see others as valuable.
  - Quote: “If you're hurting, I'll help you. And if you're broken, I'll fix you. But if I see you as valuable, I'll serve you.” — John Maxwell (10:08)
The Power of Teamwork
- Serving others reveals the interdependence of a successful team. Referencing his Law of Mount Everest, John explains how bigger challenges necessitate deeper teamwork.
  - Quote: “As the challenge escalates, the need for teamwork elevates.” — John Maxwell (11:16)
  - Memorable phrase: “Teamwork makes the dream work.” (11:12)

Application & Practical Strategies

Three Pillars for Continuous Self-Discovery

(As summarized by Mark Cole and Chris Robinson)

1. Responsibility (13:39)

Putting People First: The leader’s true responsibility is not what they can get from others, but what they can deposit into them.
- Quote: “My first responsibility is what I’m depositing, not what I’m withdrawing.” — Mark Cole (16:25)
Compassion comes from personal experience: Mark shares that being pushed out as a leader made him deeply empathetic to exhausted or struggling leaders.

2. Motive (17:18)

Diagnosing True Motives: Both Chris and Mark reflect on how early leadership ambitions often come from shallow places—money, title, power—but should be interrogated for deeper roots.
- Quote: “John has these three purpose questions...What makes you sing? What makes you cry? What makes you dream?” — Mark Cole (18:01)
- Mark uses these questions to help leaders dig beneath surface motivations for a deeper sense of calling and impact.
Insight from Experience: Chris notes that attaining his early goals brought little fulfillment until he shifted to leading for others’ benefit, inspired by Maxwell’s teachings.

3. Need (28:37)

Valuing Team Members: Leaders must move from viewing people as means to an end to seeing them as essential, valuable contributors.
- Quote: “You need people, and your leaders, you don’t need people to get your agenda done. You need people to get good things for them done, for bigger dreams than yours.” — Mark Cole (29:52)
Chess Metaphor: Mark likens a team to chess pieces—each is valuable, none are dispensable if the “game” (the collective mission) is going to succeed.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Zig Ziglar to Chris Robinson (02:41):
“Never in a million years did I think writing one little book would take me all around the world...whatever it is, pursue it with all your heart, and I’ll see you at the top.”
John Maxwell on Servanthood Shift (07:28):
“It’s even more wonderful when the leader serves the people.”
John Maxwell’s Value Statement (10:08):
“If you’re hurting, I’ll help you, and if you’re broken, I’ll fix you. But if I see you as valuable, I’ll serve you.”
Teamwork Maxim (11:12):
“Teamwork makes the dream work.”
Mark Cole on Responsibility (16:25):
“My first responsibility is what I’m depositing, not what I’m withdrawing.”
Mark Cole on Motive (18:01): “What makes you sing? What makes you cry? What makes you dream?”
Closing Reflection (31:08):
“True leadership is really about putting others first, not yourself. So simple, yet so powerful...everyone deserves to be led.” — Mark Cole, quoting listener feedback

Timestamps for Important Segments

[01:09] Chris Robinson’s Zig Ziglar Story
[05:15] John Maxwell’s Teaching: Servanthood and Leadership Paradigm Shift
[08:42] The Motive Question: Why Do I Want to be a Leader?
[10:08] Valuing People: From Fixing to Serving
[11:12] Teamwork and the Mount Everest Law
[13:39] Application—Mark and Chris Unpack Responsibility, Motive, and Need
[17:18] Exploration of Leadership Motives and Self-Discovery
[25:30] Chris’s Shift from Attaining Success to Creating Value for Others
[28:37] The Emotional and Practical Shift When Leaders Genuinely Value People
[31:08] Closing Thoughts on Putting Others First

Conclusion

The core message: When leaders prioritize serving others, they unlock not only the potential of those they lead but also discover the deeper motivations, capacities, and fulfillment within themselves. The journey to impactful leadership is marked by continual self-discovery—rooted in responsibility, shaped by authentic motives, and perpetuated by true teamwork.

For more resources mentioned in the episode, visit: maxwellpodcast.com/others
Next Steps: Take time to ask yourself—what motivates your leadership, and where can you serve more deeply today?

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Transcript

A (0:00)

Foreign. Welcome to today's episode of the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. Today, John Maxwell is going to talk to us about serving others to unlock self discovery. Now, I love Chris Robinson. I love always when you're here, it's always fun, it's always leadership, and it's always a chance to just add value to others, which is kind of our favorite thing. I was thinking, as John's teaching today, and you're getting ready to hear this, Chris. And I just listened to it right before this intro, and John talks about somebody that really unlocked his self discovery, which is Zig Ziglar. Right. And so you'll hear John talk about the first time he heard Zig was in Dayton, Ohio. How many of our podcast listeners out there, how many of you viewers, you can remember hearing Zig Ziglar? And so today, because so much of my self discovery has been because of people like John Maxwell, people like you, Chris Robinson, but also Zig Ziglar. And so tell me, how did Zig Ziglar unlock your self discovery and give me a Zig story?

B (1:09)

Yeah, so I've got one Zig Ziglar story that is that I will always remember. And so, you know, I was invited by a friend of mine to go to a conference. It was in Dallas, Texas. And, you know, I told him, hey, I can't afford to get down there. I just didn't have the money at the time. I mean, I was broke. And he says, well, hey, he goes, I'll take care of the hotel room. I've got a suite. You can sleep on the couch and I'll take care of your ticket. Just get down there. And I said, okay, I'll get down there. And so I go down there broke. I mean, not two pennies to rub together. I'm sleeping on my buddy's couch, but I'm going in and I'm listening to speakers. I'm listening to speakers and Zig Ziglar gets up and he speaks. And then, you know, afterwards, throughout the day, I'm kind of hanging around. Another speaker is spe. I get up and I go to the bathroom. Well, I'm walking to the bathroom and you know, right in front of me is Zig. And I'm going, I hope he's not going to the bathroom. Well, sure enough, he goes to the bathroom. And, you know, I stop right there and I say to his handler, I'll just, you know, I'll wait because I want to give him his space. I, you know, I want to go in there. And you know how people Are people talk to you in the bathroom? They will. And he says, oh, no, go ahead. You know. So I go into the bathroom. It's me and Zig in the bathroom, okay? And we're done with the urinals and we're washing our hands, and he looks at me, says, young man, I don't know why you're here. He goes, but let me tell you this. He says, never in a million years did I think writing one little book would take me all around the world. He says, I don't know what you're here for, young man. He goes, but whatever it is, pursue it with all your heart, and I'll see you at the top.

A (2:49)

Oh, my.

A (2:59)

What a moment. What a moment. You know, I got to hear him a few times, got to visit with him with John. And he loved John. John loved him. So there was a. There's a lot of Zig memories here for. But I heard John first time in Atlanta, Georgia, same kind of story. I met him kind of toward the backstage kind of thing. It wasn't a VIP experience because I didn't have. I didn't have the ability to do VIP either. But I saw him in the hall, and here's what he said. And this will mean something to you in just a moment. He says, all my wife's people. Now, if you remember the way he talked about his wife, the redhead. And back before all the gray that has now overtaken my head, I was redhead and pretty bright red hair. And he went, my wife's people. And it was kind of this moment. And that was big for me because I grew up little nervous or not liking my red hair. And I've told that story on the podcast before, but I became one of Zig's wife's people. And I was like, yes, I made it. I may not be at the top like Chris Robinson, but I'm one of the wife's people. I told her that story after Zig passed away. It's fun story. Hey, here's what we want to do today. We want to unlock your self discovery. We want leaders. We want you to unlock other people's self discovery like John Maxwell, like Zig Ziglar has done for Chris. Now, Chris, isn't it funny? You wrote your first book last year. Zig Ziglar is seeing you at the top, buddy. So look, grab a pen, grab a piece of paper. We're going to have a great time today. Adding value to you Expecting you to multiply value to others by unlocking self discovery. If you would like to download our bonus resource if you would like to check out different things that's applicable today's episode, you can go to maxwellpodcast.com others if you've never watched us on YouTube, our YouTube channel is in the show notes as well. You can come in and enjoy being in the studio with Chris and I. By the way, I do want to see you self discover and become incredible and so listen to John. Come back and join Chris and I and we will unpack today's lesson. Here is John Maxwell.

C (5:15)

Serving Others teaches you about yourself When I serve you, I not only add value to you, but I began to learn about myself. I did a series of teachings some time ago on what I called servanthood surprises. And the basic thesis of that teaching was the fact that when I began to serve other people, I was surprised, taken back, to be honest with you, at some of the incredible things that I learned about me. It wasn't about me because I was serving you, but while I was serving you, I began to understand myself. I began to see myself in a way that I don't think I would have ever experienced if it wasn't for the fact that I was committed on focusing on you. Isn't it interesting when we focus on others because it's all about others, we learn about ourselves. Now let me just start off by saying that I didn't really understand as a young leader servanthood at all. In fact, if you would have come up to me in my middle 20s and said, okay, what does leadership mean to you? I would have said with a great deal of excitement. Leadership to me means that I have this vision and I share it with others and they buy into this vision and they get on my leadership train and I build this great organization. And back then, leadership wasn't about me serving anybody. In fact, this doesn't sound very good, but I think it's quite truthful. Leadership for me was about people coming and serving me and who could I get to help me with my dream and my vision. And I was always looking around, recruiting people and come onto my team, but it was all about me. But when I was 26 in Dayton, Ohio, for the first time now it wasn't the last time, I heard many, many times Zig Ziglar speak. But for the first time, sitting on the front row in that Dayton arena with probably 10 to 12,000 people there, I heard Zig Say that if you would help other people get what they want, that in the end, they would help you get what you want. And that was the day that I realized. You talk about learning about yourself. That was the day that I realized that I had this servanthood thing completely misunderstood. I thought I led so that people could serve. It kind of goes back to the statement that it's wonderful when the people believe in the leader, but it's more wonderful when the leader believes in the people. Well, in my idea of leadership at the beginning, it was wonderful when the people served the leader. And yet Zig that day taught me. And I made this incredible paradigm shift. Yeah, it's wonderful when the people serve the leader, but it's even more wonderful when the leader serves the people. Now, when I heard Zig and Dayton that day, I began to reflect on myself and realized that I needed to make a U turn, that I was basically here on the other opposite end of the spectrum. I would say, join my team and serve me. And all of a sudden, Zig says, no, no, no. You just help people get what they want. You start with serving others and putting them first. And what happened to me in this paradigm shift about leadership, I had to ask myself a motive question. And the motive question was very simple.

C (8:42)

Why do I want to be a leader? To this day, when people come up to me and they share with me that they want to lead, I say, well, that's a very good thing to do. But let me ask you a question. Why do you wanna be a leader? And I want to listen to their answer. Because many, many times we want to become a leader because we feel that there are benefits for us, and it's too much about us and it's too little about others. So I took Zig's advice. I began to learn how to serve people. I began to ask people, what would be the best way that I can add value to you? And I began to focus on just helping people be successful. And that changed my life. Until I serve people, I really don't value them. That there's something about putting other people first that makes them a priority in your life. And with that priority in your life, you begin to truly value that person. You've heard me say before that if you're hurting, I'll help you, and if you're broken, I'll fix you. But if I see you as valuable, I'll serve you. For many years, I saw people as hurting, so I helped them, and I saw them broken, so I fixed them. But to be Honest with you, when I did those things, it made me look good. I wasn't doing it to make me look good. But honestly, the people would say, oh, John, if you wouldn't have come, where would I be today? I almost had like a messiah sense to myself, well, here I am. And wow, you're broken. I'll fix you. Oh, my, you're hurting. I'll help you. Okay? But you see, everything changes. That table completely turns. I no longer have the upper hand when I see you as valuable, because now, because I see you as a person of value, I'll serve you. So serving others has taught me to really value people. When you begin to serve others, you begin to understand their importance on the team, and you understand how that you begin to need each other. I have a statement that has been quoted many, many times. I'll bet you've maybe even quoted it once or twice. Teamwork makes the dream work. In my book on the 17 laws of teamwork, I talk about the law of Mount Everest. And the law of Mount Everest just simply says, as the challenge escalates, the need for teamwork elevates. In other words, if you have a Mount Everest experience in front of you, you can't accomplish it by yourself. You need others. What I discovered is when I began to serve others, I began to value the gifts of others and their contribution and how they were helping me climb a Mount Everest in my life, and it would be impossible without them on my team and without me being on their team for us to do this together. So it just has taught me to greatly value teamwork.

A (14:51)

I want to put that out as a full disclosure because I do. But it's because of my life journey. You see, I was a leader that went through a very difficult time and I was pushed out. I was a leader that wanted a second chance and in some ways didn't get that second chance. Now in other ways I've gotten a crazy good second chance and it's been quite the ride. But I was a leader that needed understanding when my frailty, my humanity showed up. And I didn't get that. Did I deserve it? No. But I wanted it. Should I have gotten it? Lord, no. I should have gotten exactly what I got. But I wanted it. And so I always have this spot in my heart that has paid off a lot of times. It's also been A lot of times that I waited too long to make some difficult decisions. That's the paradox of this conversation. But because of my leadership journey, because of what I didn't get at a time that I wanted it, I've always felt this authentic compassion for people that are wore out, people that need somebody to talk to, people that are struggling in an area that is impeding their leadership, not their, excuse me, it is impeding their ability to lead, not their leadership. They're still a good leader. They just have a challenge in their life that is impacting their ability to lead, but not their leadership. And so I have that. And again there's been a lot of times that having that patience that I don't have in many other areas. Patience is not what my wife and my kids tell me I'm really good at. But in this environment, in this particular description of what you've done, I've really realized my responsibility is not to look at you based on what I am getting from you. It's what I'm depositing into you. That's a true leadership posture. That's my first responsibility is what I'm depositing, what I'm with, not what I'm withdrawing. And because there was a time to where I needed a deposit in my leadership and all I got was a withdrawal, which was a bounce check by the way. There was nothing in there. It's really given me a sense of that responsibility.

A (18:01)

John has three. So I love this. I did not know you were going to ask this. But as soon as you asked it, I knew how I wanted to answer it. Because John has these three purpose questions that we've heard him talk about. What makes you sing? What makes you cry? What makes you dream? What makes you sing cry? Dream, sing, cry, dream. And it's a great motive. Excuse me. It's a great purpose question where you can find that. The thing that gives you purpose is the thing that makes you cry. The thing that gives you purpose is the things that you sing about, you dream about. Love it. I think it's true in leadership, too. Why do I lead? What breaks my heart about leading? When I see X person do this, it breaks my heart. I'll tell you what mine is. It's demeaning people. It's using people for their own benefit. It kills me, man. And to be honest with you, it does make me cry. Now, before I cry, I get a little ticked off. I was trying to figure out which word I could use right here on the podcast because it makes me mad. Honestly. Makes me mad that when people use their position to demoralize, to demean people. But it does make me cry. I don't like that. What makes me sing is when a leader puts aside their agenda and finds the greatness in others. One of the things I love the most about your leadership, Chris, I love this is you give people experiences they would never be able to get. You do it at imc. You bring them backstage, you do all this stuff. Every time you do it, I go, that's the Chris I love. You give people a chance to realize the value that's within them. What I dream about is a world where leaders are so selfless that we don't even know their name. We just know their impact. And so I think when I'm trying to help assess a leader's passion to lead, I ask them, what makes you sing? What makes you dream? Often to play off what you do, it is money. It is the ability to get paid to be a good leader. I don't ever discourage that. In fact, I think your characterization of the reasons you led at the very beginning are not shallow. I think leaving them shallow is problematic. But go dig deeper into that. Why you want to be the boss? Probably because there was something told you a long time ago you couldn't be a boss, and you went, no, no, no. I'm going to show people that they can overcome the lies. That's to them. I guarantee you there's a. I know you. There's a deeper why below your shallow answers that you just characterize. So I would come to you 30 years ago and you would tell me those three reasons. I go, wow, what about money gives you a sense of success? What is it. What is it about being the boss? What is it that telling people the position? Was that the second one? What is it about position that gives you value? And I would go into that, and I guarantee you, underneath there, there's significant.

A (22:28)

So. So I tell people all the time, laughingly, I laugh about my joke. I laugh about my story. I'm the baby of five. I was five years younger than number four in the birth order. And so basically, I was the only child. And everybody had an opinion. We were a total we were a family of leaders. And I'm five years old and my oldest brother's 24 years older than me. Man, I got to make waves quick. And I learned early on I loved telling people what to do. I loved it. Dude, you know what I loved even more than that? I loved it when they did it. There was such a sense of fulfillment. It was better than winning a game. It was better when I could influence a group of people that were older than me, that were disinterested in me and I could, with them, knowing it or not, influence the outcome of what they decided to do. Man, there was such a fulfillment. I didn't know until I was 18 that that was leadership. I didn't know until it was 30 that it was purpose. See, but it all started liking to tell people what to do. It all started with a sense of a carrot, of I loved it when they did it, but what it ended up being, when it was purpose for me, when I wrapped all that in, the reason did not change. The motive behind it changed. And the motive was, man, I was designed to inspire people to reach their full potential. And the way to do that is to lead them to discovering what that full potential is and not let them believe the lie that's limiting the potential they're living in. And when I realized that's why I like telling people what to do, and I liked it even more when they saw results, man, it was a game changer. It let me take the CEO role because my education, my experience, my. There was nothing that lent itself to this career track. Nothing. Not even the way I talk. All of you that are hearing my southern right, there was nothing except one thing. The motive behind this little five year old boy that packaged it a bunch of different ways until I got to the point at 30 that I went, oh, I'm supposed to motivate in this property.

A (28:37)

So I think it's a true sense of need. That's why I pack it. When I was listening to John today in this podcast, I heard if I want to self discover what are constantly the categories I need to be self discovering in, not a moment of self discovery, but a journey of self discovery. That's how I heard the lesson today. So we talked about my responsibility. What I need to discover is my responsibility. And it's always putting people. Where am I not putting people first today? Check it. Where do I need to be putting people there tomorrow? Note it. Where did I not do it yesterday? Condemn it. Because it's going to stop you from your first responsibility as a leader. Secondly, my reason, my motive, man. Go back to your motive. We just did that in a. We gave a real life coaching opportunity here. We need to constantly be going back to our motive. Constantly going back to our motive because we're human. We'll get away from it. The money, the power, the prestige will always convince us to get away from the motive. Get back to the motive now. We're talking about my need, man. I gotta have people, Chris. I cannot carry the responsibility that I've been given by John, by God, without you. I can't. You are a need to me. And too many leaders see people as a distraction to their position rather than a fulfillment of their position. You need people and your leaders. You don't need people to get your agenda done. You need people to get good things for them done. For bigger dreams than yours. And too many times people are pawns and not the purpose, the point. They are a object on a chessboard and not the actual game. Fulfillment. Can't do it without the pawns. Can't do it without the Castles, you're going to think, I know what I'm talking about with chess and I knew a little bit. You can't do it without every piece. That's the masterful piece of chess is knowing how to get the most out of the pieces. Same thing with leadership. You cannot get an agenda that's more important than the person that helps you get to the agenda. You can't. You can't. You're playing the wrong game and you're misusing people. You need people. That's why when John says teamwork makes the dream work, there is no way you have a noble enough dream if you are the only player in your dream. It's not noble enough.