Maxwell Leadership Podcast: How to Be a Relatable Leader

Date: May 28, 2025
Host: John Maxwell
Co-Hosts: Mark Cole and Chris Goede

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the transformative power of adversity in leadership, centered on how leaders can become truly relatable. John Maxwell draws from his decades of experience to explain how sharing failures and embracing vulnerability fosters authentic connections, closes the gap between leaders and followers, and unlocks the wisdom needed for impactful leadership. Mark Cole and Chris Goede then break down John’s lessons, sharing their personal insights and a practical framework for authenticity, vulnerability, and emotional capacity in everyday leadership.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Adversity as the Bridge to Relatability

• [02:06] John Maxwell: Opens with the idea that adversity, more than success, creates powerful connection points between leaders and those they serve.
• Success often widens the gap between leaders and others, making them seem “unreachable.” Adversity and openness about one’s struggles, on the other hand, closes the gap and transforms fans into friends.
• Quote:
  “I decided many, many years ago that I didn’t want to have fans... I want friends. If you want friends, you close that gap. And what I know beyond any shadow of a doubt is that adversity closes the gap.”
  — John Maxwell [02:50]

2. Contrasting Success and Failure

• John recounts a pivotal conference where a string of “success” speakers left attendees feeling disconnected. He responded by candidly presenting his own mistakes in a talk titled “Flops, Failures, and Fumbles.”

• Key Insight: Success and failure are not opposites but partners; every significant success is built on the foundation of past failures and adversity.

• Quote:
  “Success and failure go together. I've never known a person that had a success story that wasn’t filled with failure.”
  — John Maxwell [06:27]

• Encourages leaders to ask others about their “failures, losses, adversity, crisis” because wisdom “always comes out of crisis.”

• Quote:
  “Wisdom doesn’t come out of the easy lessons... That’s where wisdom comes from.”
  — John Maxwell [07:09]

3. Authenticity Over Perfection

• [12:01] Chris Goede & Mark Cole: Transition to a more practical framework, beginning with the importance of authenticity rather than striving for perfection.
• Mark shares his personal journey: Early in his life, he projected perfection to gain approval and influence but felt inwardly empty and disconnected. True leadership breakthrough came only when he embraced authenticity.
• Quote:
  “I tried the other way of perfection over authenticity... Stop doing that. Kill that statement. Don’t let anybody tell you that faking it till you make it is a good thing.”
  — Mark Cole [16:22]

Three Reasons to Choose Authenticity

1. Authenticity is sustainable and achievable—perfection is not.
2. Being authentic is more influential and inspiring; people want to emulate, not idolize.
3. Authenticity enables others to say, “If he can do it, I can do it.”

• Quote:
  “When people see you as perfect, they may idolize you, but they don’t want to emulate you. They can’t do it.”
  — Mark Cole [18:16]

4. The Power of Vulnerability

• [21:23] Chris Goede: Highlights that vulnerability (distinct from authenticity) takes connection deeper. Vulnerability is exposing present limitations and asking for help; authenticity is owning past failures.

• Mark clarifies:

  • Authenticity: “It’s a report card on what I've done.”
  • Vulnerability: “If somebody doesn’t help me, I'm going to fail again.”

• Quote:
  “Authenticity is a report on where I struggle. Vulnerability is where I admit if I don't get help, I'm going to keep struggling.”
  — Mark Cole [24:43]

• Vulnerability builds trust and collaboration—it invites team members into problem-solving rather than posturing.

• Quote:
  “Many people are okay with authenticity, they’re not okay with vulnerability. This is a separate category.”
  — Mark Cole [24:17]

5. Building Emotional Capacity and Empathy

• [28:00] Chris Goede: Empathy and emotional intelligence are essential for leaders who want to relate deeply with their team.

• Mark expands the idea to “emotional capacity”—the ability to relate to, accept, and process one’s own and others’ struggles.

• Key Insight: You cannot extend acceptance and support to others’ failures if you don’t first accept your own.

• Quote:
  “You’ve got to relate to yourself first. You’ve got to have empathy with yourself and your challenges before you’ll ever be able to extend empathy to others.”
  — Mark Cole [32:47]

• Mark describes self-assessment exercises where he tested his emotional resilience, which later helped him navigate real crises with more vulnerability and authenticity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Bigger people make you feel bigger, but smaller people make you feel smaller.”
  — John Maxwell [04:33]

• “Wisdom always comes out of crisis. Always.”
  — John Maxwell [07:09]

• “Stop doing that. Kill that statement. Don’t let anybody tell you that faking it till you make it is a good thing.”
  — Mark Cole [16:22]

• “If Mark can do it, I can do it. It really puts belief in others much more than perfection.”
  — Mark Cole [18:55]

• “Authenticity is a report on where I struggle. Vulnerability is where I admit if I don't get help, I'm going to keep struggling.”
  — Mark Cole [24:43]

• “You’ve got to relate to yourself first. In other words, you’ve got to have empathy with yourself and your challenges before you’ll ever be able to extend empathy to others.”
  — Mark Cole [32:47]

Practical Framework: Becoming a More Relatable Leader

[11:57]
Chris Goede’s Three-Part Framework (Unpacked by Mark Cole):

1. Authenticity over perfection – Show up as your real self.
2. Vulnerability – Be willing to acknowledge where you need help right now.
3. Empathy and emotional capacity – Cultivate self-understanding so you can extend true understanding and connection to others.

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:06] John Maxwell: Why adversity creates stronger connections than success
• [04:33] On the isolating power of constant success stories
• [06:27] Success and failure are not opposites
• [07:09] Wisdom comes from crisis and failure, not from “coasting”
• [12:01] Transition to practical leadership framework: authenticity, vulnerability, empathy
• [16:22] Mark Cole on moving from perfection to authenticity
• [18:55] The impact of sharing authentic struggles
• [21:23] The distinct power of vulnerability
• [24:43] Differentiating authenticity (past) and vulnerability (present/future)
• [28:00] Empathy, emotional intelligence, and leadership
• [32:47] Building emotional capacity as a foundation for authenticity and vulnerability

Summary

“How to Be a Relatable Leader” offers a transparent look at how experiencing—and more importantly, sharing—failure, adversity, and vulnerability makes leaders both approachable and transformational. John Maxwell sets the stage with stories and principles from decades of leadership, while Mark Cole and Chris Goede provide a concrete, actionable framework that contemporary leaders can use to deepen their influence. The episode underscores that the path to relational, impactful leadership is not paved with perfection, but with candor, humility, and the willingness to close the gap between yourself and those you lead.

For further growth: Explore John Maxwell's "21 Laws of Leadership," and revisit the related episode "Get a Return on Failure" for deeper dives into these transformational principles.