How to Stabilize Your Success

Summary

Maxwell Leadership Podcast: "How to Stabilize Your Success"
Host: John Maxwell (with Mark Cole & Chris Robinson)
Date: July 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the lesser-discussed side of success: stability. John Maxwell, joined by hosts Mark Cole and Chris Robinson, explores practical ways leaders can keep their success grounded, sustainable, and positively impactful over time. The team discusses the inward definitions leaders must establish, the pitfalls of unchecked power, the role of accountability, and how ego and momentum can masquerade as genuine achievement. They encourage listeners to reflect on their own successes and blind spots and introduce a series of episodes examining success stabilization in depth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Success: Outward Results vs. Inward Reality

[03:40–09:30] (John Maxwell teaching)

• John Maxwell observes few leaders talk about stabilizing success, not just achieving it. Many highly successful people “crash and burn” because of instability beneath outward triumphs.
• Quote (John Maxwell, 04:55):
  “You cannot travel without successfully until you first traveled within.”
• He encourages listeners to pursue an inward definition of success before chasing external validations or accolades.
• John’s personal success metric:
  “Those closest to me who know me the best love and respect me the most.”
  (John Maxwell, 06:30)
• If outsiders like you more than insiders, “you got a problem.”
• Mark Cole and Chris Robinson echo the need for inner alignment and authenticity.

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2. The Dangers of Unchecked Power

[09:30–13:30] (John Maxwell teaching)

• Success often brings power, but "power unchecked is incredibly unhealthy. Power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts."
• The antidote is accountability:
  “The stabilizer for power is accountability.” (John Maxwell, 10:20)
• Personal accountability is vital—setting the bar higher for yourself than anyone else would.
• Recognizing blind spots is essential; self-awareness only develops when others speak honestly into your life: “My self-awareness today is not that I was self aware. My self-awareness today is someone else made me aware until I could be self aware myself.”
  (John Maxwell, 12:55)
• Leaders need people who both love them unconditionally and won’t “let you destroy yourself.”

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3. Success and Momentum: Don’t Confuse a Tailwind

[15:00–19:00]

• The team discusses Jamie Kern Lima’s advice:
  “Don’t confuse a tailwind with success.”
• Mark Cole recounts corporate stories (Ed Bastian, Delta CEO) to illustrate that external factors (tailwinds) can artificially boost outcomes—real leadership is proven in headwinds and adversity.
• Quote (Mark Cole, 19:00):
  “Difficult times is when leaders are needed much more than successful times.”

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4. When Success Feels Elusive: Stabilizing in the Absence of Wins

[19:18–22:39]

• Mark Cole discusses seasons when nothing seems to work, emphasizing:
  • Disassociating losses from personal worth (“Just because we were not winning did not make me a loser.”)
  • Making a “winning list” and an “adversity-overcome list” to regain perspective.
  • Embracing pressure as a sign that you’re “in the game” (referencing Jack Nicklaus).

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5. Authentic Leadership: Closing the Persona Gap

[24:00–26:00]

• Chris Robinson: The goal is consistency—“who I am onstage and who I am in person… there’s not a mismatch.”
• John Maxwell stands out as a model leader with a minimal gap between public and private personas.
• Inauthenticity, driven by fame, power, or success, can “distort the truth” (Mark Cole).

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6. Power Dynamics and Giving Up Control

[26:00–33:00]

• Mark Cole reflects on how unchecked control, over time, shifted from motivation to manipulation—and how he’s had to learn, through team feedback, the importance of delegation and empowerment.
• Quote (Mark Cole, 32:50):
  “It was becoming ineffective because now my control freakness was not on benefit of somebody else, it was on benefit of me… I was turning it into manipulation for what I needed from people.”
• Positive changes in the organization have come by replacing control with genuine motivation.
• Chris remarks on the visible difference this shift has made for the team.

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7. The Role of Accountability in Organizational Culture

[34:15–35:30]

• Leaders should strive to build a culture of accountability without fear or shame, encouraging honest feedback and open dialogue.
• Mark Cole suggests:
  • Ask, “How do you create a culture where your team feels safe to be accountable without fear of shame or punishment?”
  • After communicating, follow up with questions:
    • “What did you hear?”
    • “What do you anticipate doing with what you heard?”
    • “How could I have said it better?”
      (Mark Cole paraphrasing advice, 36:40)

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Notable Quotes

• John Maxwell (06:30):
  “Those closest to me who know me the best love and respect me the most.”
• John Maxwell (10:20):
  “The stabilizer for power is accountability.”
• Jamie Kern Lima (Referenced by John, 04:00):
  “Don’t confuse a tailwind with success.”
• Mark Cole (19:00):
  “Difficult times is when leaders are needed much more than successful times.”
• Mark Cole (32:50):
  “I was turning it into manipulation for what I needed from people.”

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Memorable Moments

• John describing his six-month journey to define success and landing on a definition rooted in authentic relationships.
• The vulnerability shown by Mark Cole recounting feedback from his own team about his controlling tendencies, and the organizational growth that followed his letting go.
• Referencing Delta CEO Ed Bastian’s experiences of headwinds and tailwinds to highlight the importance of perspective on success.

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Key Timestamps

• 03:40 — John introduces the concept of “success stabilizers.”
• 06:30 — John’s personal inward definition of success.
• 10:20 — Power and accountability.
• 12:55 — The reality of blind spots and external feedback.
• 15:00 — Jamie Kern Lima’s “tailwind vs. success” insight.
• 19:00 — Mark Cole: leadership is needed more in tough times.
• 24:00 — Chris Robinson and Mark Cole on authenticity as a success metric.
• 26:25 — Mark Cole’s first real lessons about the misuse of control and power.
• 32:50 — Mark’s narrative on manipulation and organizational healing.
• 34:15 — Building a shame-free culture of accountability.
• 36:40 — Practical advice for post-communication feedback.

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Summary

"How to Stabilize Your Success" challenges listeners to explore what truly holds success together. It’s not public applause, revenue, or influence, but inward definitions, authentic relationships, relentless personal accountability, and a willingness to listen to hard truths. Mark and Chris share their journeys of leadership, vulnerability, and change, echoing John Maxwell's foundational principle: True, lasting success is rooted in how those who know you best experience and respect you. This episode sets the stage for further exploration of success stability in upcoming episodes, inviting leaders to look within and build the character needed for enduring influence.

Transcript

[A]

John asking me the question, do you want to be popular with people or do you want to be productive with people? Do you want to lead people or be loved by people? And that was a riveting thought for me because I was, like, loved. I want to be popular with people. I'm all about the people, John. And he's going, yeah, it's going to be a liability to you one day. Welcome to today's leadership podcast. We're the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. We want to add value to you so that you'll go multiply value to others. I'm really excited about today's podcast, not only because I'm joined with Chris Robinson and love getting to do stuff together. Chris. And talk about John's content and how we live it out and apply it, but also because John did a lesson recently that was riveting to everyone that got to hear it, and that lesson was all about success stabilizers. How do you keep success in check in your leadership? How do you make sure that it doesn't create challenges or create disconnect from you and your team and you and others and even you and yourself? And so I'm really excited because today we're going to talk about how to stabilize your success. But for the next couple of weeks, next couple of episodes, we're going to take some time and really dig into this concept. So whether you think you're successful, whether you want to be successful, or whether you want to figure out how to deal with those successful people that are problematic, well, there you are right there. You're going to really enjoy the next three weeks of episodes. And today, Chris, I just want to start off. You've been really successful in your life. Really, really successful. What do you think probably is the thing that you consider the thing you've been most successful at in your life.

[B]

Most successful or. Again, I think success is relative. Yeah, we all have degrees of success. I've had a degree of success, but honestly, I. I would really break it down to something very simple, as I'm still alive, I'm still healthy, and I'm making a difference in an impact on people around the world. Now, if you go back to and say, well, Chris, that. That doesn't seem like very lofty at all, but you got to understand that. You know, I thought that as a teenager, I was either going to be dead or in jail. Yeah, for sure, like dead or in jail. And I never saw my life beyond the age of 21, 25. I didn't have a vision beyond that. I honestly thought Those were going to be one of my two paths. And so the fact that I live well beyond 21, well beyond 25, the fact that I'm raising kids, that I am making an impact and difference of people around the world, that to me is a great success, well beyond what I thought of as a kid.

[A]

Well, you're being successful, I'll tell you that much. Hey, and we want you to be successful too. And we want you to stabilize that success against some of the things that at times will distract you in believing too much about your success. So here we go. I want you to grab a pen, grab a paper. Maybe you want our bonus resource which is just a follow along tool as John teaches, you can get that tool and other things, links and things that will make you in your leadership journey better. All of that [e-mail] stable and if you'll go there, maxwellpodcast.com stable. You'll also see the link to follow us on YouTube. You'll be able to take in this podcast visually and get to be a part of it that way. Take a moment, get ready. John is going to challenge you to be successful, but stay connected and stay relevant. Here is John Maxwell.

[C]

I have never heard anybody talk about how do you stabilize and make solid the success that you have in life? Because as we know, a whole bunch of people that are highly successful become train wrecks. Are you with me? And they crash and burn. And I've watched it happen. You've watched it happen. And I've never heard anybody teach on how do you stabilize your success so that it's solid and it's got a core when you're successful. There are certain things that happen with your success and when they happen, how do we stabilize that? You've heard me teach that. You know, the greatest detriment to tomorrow's success is today's success. In the 1980s, especially 87, 88, I was really starting, I'm like 40, and I'm really starting to experience a lot of success. The church that I lead is, they've written a book on it. It's one of the ten most influential churches in America. But the books I'm writing are selling a lot. They're doing really well. They're really picking up. I'm getting 100 invitations every month to speak. And so it's just a real good time for me. And this is what I caught myself in this, you know, in this success kind of wave. And I'm reminded of what my wonderful, precious good friend Jamie Kern Lima Said, don't confuse a tailwind with success. And I began to look at other people that were successful, many of them much more successful than me. And they were crashing and burning and they were not doing well in other parts of their life. And that's when I said, I have got to develop an inward definition of success. Now, here we go. Before you have an outward definition of success, I think you should have an inward definition definition of success. You cannot travel without successfully until you first traveled within. And so when we crash and burn on the outside, almost always is an indication that the inside isn't solid. So probably for six months I kept asking myself, what's my personal definition of success? What. What is going to be success for me? And I think it's important for you to do that because I think a lot of people will tell you what success is, and if you're not careful, you'll start chasing other people's idea of what success is. After about six months, I came to the conclusion. And by the way, since 1987, probably this has been my inward, personal definition of success. Very simple. Those closest to me who know me the best love and respect me the most. Those closest to me who know me the best love and respect me the most. That has been my core. That has been my success stabilizer. So that when everybody's kind of applauding and kind of going crazy, I go back and say, now, John, they don't probably know you very well, but the people that know you really well, the people that know you the best, do they love and respect you the most? Because if that's true, you are very successful in life because you're the real deal. You're very authentic. Because those who are close to me, I mean, you take people like Barbara and Linda and Mark and Aaron and all these other people that are my. You know, all these people that I have around me, they know me very well. And they not only know what I do well, well, they know all of my idiosyncrasies and I have a whole bunch. And they know all my faults, they know all my weaknesses. They. They know me, they know me very well. And we have a great relationship. There's no covering. We don't try to cover anything. We just are who we are. But when people who really know you well, they love and respect you more than people who don't know you well, that's success. Let me just flip it so I make sure you have it. When people who don't know you well like you better than people who Know you well. Are you with me? You got that one, didn't you? Then you got a problem. Isn't that right? And so that has been my. I would have to say that's been my core. No matter where I was or what I was doing, I constantly kept that in front of me. Do those who know me the best, do they love and respect me the most? That's a stabilizer for me. Now you're getting the picture. So let's talk about success, because success gives people a lot of stuff. One thing that success gives, and I'm going to give you several right now. They're not in any order, like one's more important than the other. We just start with one. And if you're successful, you get a lot of power. The power comes along with success. This is huge, you know, lot of power. Now, power unchecked is incredibly unhealthy. You know, power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. So you give a person power without a stabilizer in their life, and they're going to get off the rails real quick. So how do I, when I have this power, when I get this authority, how do I stabilize myself and not mess up? Well, the stabilizer for power is accountability. The moment that you make yourself accountable to someone else, where they can speak into your life and talk to you honestly and that somebody is, quote, checking up on you, this becomes absolutely huge. You see, we judge ourselves by our intentions and we judge others by their actions. That's just human. That's who we are. What accountability does is it closes the gap between intentions and actions. And everybody, everybody needs to be accountable to somebody. I don't think I would follow anybody as a leader if they didn't have someone that they were accountable to, if they didn't have an accountability structure within their life. And by the way, you have to give people permission to hold you accountable. I'm the founder of seven companies. If I wanted to, I could look at everybody and tell them to take a giant leap and that they're my companies and I'm gonna do whatever I want to do. And I could run my life like that. If I wanted to, I could. But it's a dangerous way to run your life. It's a stupid way to run your life. It's gonna catch up with me. It's only a matter of time. But you have to be. You have to make yourself accountable to people. You've gotta. And by the way, you don't need to make yourself accountable to a lot of people. And if you make yourself accountable to people. Make sure that they love you unconditionally so that they don't have another agenda. They're not trying to destroy you, but the same sense they're not let go. See, when you get the right person to be accountable to, they're not going to destroy you because they love you unconditionally, but they're not gonna let you destroy yourself. Don't miss that. So they're always on your side. But part of being on your side is to say, hey, you need to make a change now. By the way, let me just say this about accountability. I think one of the most important things to stabilize our success with power is to be personally accountable to ourselves. I've often said I set the accountability bar on myself higher than anybody else sets it. And so I really have never needed anybody to say, john, strive for excellence. I never have needed anybody to say, work a little harder. There's a wonderful self discipline about making yourself personally accountable that just really is huge. In my book no Limits, I talk in there about self awareness and I talk about how do you reach your capacity and I talk about the fact that one of the ways that you reach capacity is to have self awareness. But I've also come to the conclusion that there's no such thing as self awareness. We have blind spots. I have blind spots and I'm never going to see, I'm never going to discover those blind spots on my own. I need you to help me. I need you to walk in my life and say, john, that's a blind spot for you. I mean, if they're blind spots, guess what? They are. They're blind spots. What part of blind spots do we not understand? But when somebody comes in and speaks to us. My self awareness today is not that I was self aware. My self awareness today is someone else made me aware until I could be self aware myself. Do you follow me? I got it. I picked it up. I picked it up from somewhere else. So when things are great and they happen and I write a book or communicate well or stand in all that stuff, I'm totally aware. I'm aware. I'm aware that it's a gift. It's not me and a person with ego, they really lack awareness of all the people around them that have helped them be successful.

[A]

Hey, I hope you really enjoy that, Chris. I know I did. And just hearing John teach that and then share a component of that. This podcast episode was really impacted. I was reminded of a quote by Theodore Roosevelt. He said, successful, the real success does not depend on the position you hold, but upon how you carry that position. And so, as John's now talking not only about success and defining it for us in the lesson, he's really challenging us, and we'll do for the next couple episodes, how do you stabilize that success that you have? And so I'm super excited. John says the greatest detriment to tomorrow's success is today's success. So, by the way, whether you feel successful today or whether you don't, if you want to be successful tomorrow, your success perspective today is the determining factor. So we all want to be successful tomorrow.

[B]

And it takes looking at our day today and going, hey, what can we do something a little different? I agree about earlier today when we were in a meeting together and, you know, you were asking the question of the team, hey, what are you guys doing today that's a little bit different from what you did yesterday in order to shift the results that you get today? And so I think that that leads us off well with just hearing that fresh from you before we even listen to the. The John teaching here this morning. But he, you know, he talks about this phrase from Jamie, Colonel Lima says, don't confuse a tailwind with success. Now, I think that we had a period of time where we had a little bit of a tailwind. You know, we started this journey together in 2020, and immediately we were thrown right into Covid. Yeah. And I mean, we actually, we navigated and did well through Covid, and, man, we were gliding, and then there was this headwind. I mean, we were now and today even getting resistance. And I kind of got to ask you the question, like, what were you seeing there? What was the difference between the tailwind and the headwind that we faced throughout these years?

[A]

It's so funny that when I heard John give that quote today, Chris, number one, I did. I thought about you and I and our leadership. And I love the reference that you did to a leadership meeting that we had today. I thought about the different phases, the different times that we have led. Last week, I was with Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta, and he was talking about over the last 21 years of his leadership at Delta as president, as CEO, all the different things that he has faced. And there's been times that he has experienced great tailwinds. He's in the airline business, and so tailwinds, headwinds kind of work for him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's in great success moments. And it was less about his leadership and more about extenuating circumstances that he couldn't really control. But that's also true about some of the most difficult times of his leadership. It was things that was outside of his ability to control Covid, wars, bankruptcy, some things that he inherited in his leadership. And it reminded me, number one, Chris, that difficult times is when leaders are need much more than successful times. But leaders often feel like they're having the greatest impact in the successful times. And I think that's what Jamie Kern Lima is talking about. I think that's why it caught John so much. I remember the first time Jamie said that in front of John and John went, whoa, whoa, wait, say that again. And she says, oh, yeah. And that time she interchanged it and she said, don't confuse momentum with a tailwind. And then came back and restated and said, don't confuse a tailwind with success. And I think if you look at our leadership, even today, the leadership that we have resistance or this soaring ability that almost everything you touch seems to be working, I think what we have to do as leaders and what John's trying to communicate in this, how to stabilize your success. Don't get too caught up in success being the determining factor of your effectiveness as a leader. Now, we all want success. We all believe that leaders, good leaders, everything rises and falls on leaders. Good leadership brings success, but don't let that determine the ability or the responsibility of how you lead. And that whole quote, don't confuse a tailwind with success is really a sense of abdicating responsibility of leadership and leaders responsibility to productivity as being a dismissal factor. When it's a tailwind, when it's things outside of your control.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Well, what about so. So we. We look at the success side of it. We could dissect that, but talk to the team member, you know, or the person out there listening that just can't find a win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's no momentum. What do you do to stabilize that or to get back to stabilization after everything is unstable?

[A]

I. I had a season in my leadership. You will remember that you're leading right beside me. I had a season in that I really, truly had that thought. Why is nothing winning? What to do when you're not winning. My wife, who knew that feeling for me, she found a message online by a good friend of ours, a guy named Steven Furtick. And I went in and what he helped me do is a couple of things. You're Mr. Positive. And so you'll understand some of this. It was truly a case to where tangibly it didn't feel like anything that we were touching and moving was working. And I went in and had to set. I really had to dissect my leadership and my perspective. And the first thing that I did was I unwound the idea that just because we were not winning did not make me a loser. Now, that sounds crazy, doesn't it? We're a positive environment. We're all good. I work for John Maxwell. We're having more success in several parts of our business than we ever did. But I had to truly disconnect not winning to meaning I'm a loser. I really had to. The way I did that is I made a list of all the things that I had won in. I went and, you know, you've heard these gratitude lists, podcast listeners. You've heard these. These challenges. You need to make a gratitude list every single day. And I went and I said, you know what? I'm going to make a winning list, and I'm going to show of all the things that have won in my leadership. That probably doesn't apply to most of you. It did to me that day. And when I did that, man, I got done with that list. And then I did something that Steven Furtick did not challenge me. I went and listed out the adversity I overcame to have that win. And boy, as I did, I created the winning list, and then I created the adversity overcame list to have that win. Man, I walked into the office that day and I went, we gonna win. So, number one, I identified that. I disconnected being a loser. Number two, I made a list of the wins because at this particular time, I really need it. The third thing that I did do that I think is really important is I did create that gratitude list. What are the things that I am grateful for right here? And what I found was most of the things that I was grateful for in the difficult times was the same things I'm grateful for in the good times. And that is, I'm glad I'm in the game. I'm glad I feel the weight of this right now. It's Jack Nicklaus. We did an event with Jack Nicklaus not too long ago, and they said, how do you handle the pressure Sunday? Anyway, I live for Sunday. So the first thing that I do is I embrace the pressure, because the fact that I have the pressure of the Sunday crowd means I played well enough on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday to be in the last group to feel the pressure. He said, great leaders welcome pressure because they're in the game for the pressure. They're in the game for when the stakes are the highest. And so I created a gratitude perspective that says, boy, I'm glad I'm the one leading right now. And I'm not waiting around waiting for a leader to make a decision on whether we're going to make it or not. I'm glad I'm the one that gets to determine that right now.

[B]

John also gave us a definition side here of success. You know, John gives us that definition of those closest to me who know me best, love and respect me the most. How would you define success? Or would you agree with John in that statement? Or how have you modified?

[A]

I do think that success should be determined by those closest to you and not determined by yourself, because, boy, power and success and money and fame and effectiveness is such a distorter of the truth. And too many people have taken a winning moment and made it a championship, and it was nothing more than a moment. And so I do agree with John's success. I'm heavily influenced by that. Success is defined by those that love and respect me the most. And so I agree with him. For me, I go one step further and define what success is and then let people around me tell me how well I'm doing. And the best way I know to define success for Mark Cole is going back to that infamous second day, second most important day in a leader's life, according to Mark Twain. The first day being the day they were born, the second day they discovering why. And I believe that rests around purpose, around one's effectiveness at living. And for me, that is to motivate and inspire people to reach their full potential. So every day I ask myself a success question mark. How well do you think you added value and motivated and inspired people today? How well do you think you did that? And then on days when I'm not sure, I ask a couple of people that I met and said, did I motivate you and did I inspire you? But ultimately, I'm letting on a consistent basis, sometimes yearly, sometimes monthly, I'm letting people close to me give me very big, very clear specifics on how well I am motivating and inspire people to reach their full potential.

[B]

I love that. I love that. I think I live underneath the same philosophy of John, But I think the iteration for me comes down to I really want who I am on stage and who I am in person to never be a mismatch or who you all see on the podcast here to you meet me in person. There's not a mismatch because I've shared it before. And I. And I think this is what John is saying too, but it's how I articulate it. Have. We've met very, very incredible author speakers all around the world. And, you know, you. You've read their books for years, and then you meet them and you go, oh, I love their books.

[A]

Keep it at the book.

[B]

I don't want that gap to be there because I've seen it too often where somebody has a Persona on stage, they have a Persona off stage, they have a Persona on camera, then they have one off camera. And for me, I want that to be as close as it could possibly be, for sure. It's also modeled by John Maxwell because out of all of the authors, speakers, authorities, celebrities that I've been around, he's got the closest gap between who he is on stage and who he is in person said to who I experience. And so I love, love that there. Now he talks about power in this one as well, too. And, you know, power. He says the stabilizer for power is accountability. So there's two things I want to talk about there. The first one is I want to talk about. Because you've shared stories in the past of, you know, when you were five years old, you. You knew that you wanted to lead somebody because you gave an order and they did it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you got them to do it. And so as people grow in success, they get this access to power. Tell me about a time when you really begin to sense that power and how it can be used for good or it could be used for bad.

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, this has happened to me multiple times. John said the statement in the lesson, you guys all heard it, I'm sure, and underlined it, bolded it, highlighted it. Power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And there is a component of leadership, especially when you're known for it, and leadership. First frame of reference, first revelation of leadership for me was telling people what to do and like you said, loving it. When they did it. I just, I absolutely did it. Five years old, I could remember, baby of seven in our family, two parents and five kids. I can remember getting them to do what I wanted them to do at 5 years of age and going, yes, this is everything. Well, that unchecked and that unfiltered. And as John says that as. That as power begins to destabilize success, it takes that power and it begins to manipulate people rather than motivate people. I said often, I said earlier that I exist to motivate and inspire people to reach their full potential. I don't exist to manipulate and challenge people to reach their full potential. Because most of the time I challenge you because I'm not getting from you what I want from you. I want to inspire you so you can get the best out of yourself. I want to motivate you rather than manipulate you. Manipulating is for my benefit, motivating us for yours. And I have found for me personally that when I begin to use my success, use my leadership position, use my authority to manipulate people, I have become destabilized in whatever success gave me the privilege to do that anyway. So I have learned through the years that that comes out in multiple factors. We may talk about this in a little bit, but I've that. That comes out sometimes in control. I want to control. Right.

[B]

Talk about that. Yeah.

[A]

And so I'm sitting here, and I really have to realize it. And for the next couple of weeks, this is not a teaser. We're really going to go deep in how destabilizing success can be, because it can confuse you, it can lie to you, and it can paralyze you to tomorrow's success if you get satisfied with today's. So take a moment and really slow down and identify a place where you have tasted success or where you're tasting success and put that as a framework, because we'll find some places. I'm confident that you're destabilized in that area.

[B]

Yeah. When you know. So we talk about this accountability, then you get this here. But then there's also these blind spots that he talks about. And so I noticed something recently now you just talked about, just kind of slipped out there, said, hey, this control deal, I've watched you here recently begin to give up control of some things inside the organization that you've always had control or handle on. Where is that coming from? Is that coming from accountability? Is that coming from, you know, accountability partners or people that are speaking into your life? Talk to me about this shift that I'm seeing.

[A]

Yeah, so, you know, I can remember. I'm glad you're seeing the shift because we're leading so much. You're in the office today, we're in meetings today, doing podcasts. And so I'm glad to know, one, that you've noticed. Two, I'm glad, as these podcasts continue, I hope that you're able to start giving even more illustrations of me giving agency or a delegation of authority to leaders in my life. It comes from a lesson, however, that has been as profound to me as the lesson I talk about on this podcast. Often about being a people pleaser. John asking me the question, do you want to be popular with people or do you want to be productive with people? Do you want to lead people or be loved by people? And that was a riveting thought for me because I was like, loved. I want to be popular with people. I'm all about the people, John. And he's going, yeah, it's going to be a liability to you one day. And he began to mentor me on that. And it was a long process. Very similar thing happened to me about my leader. I'm very much a people oriented leader, but some of the people, some, not one, not two, some of the people that I have been the most effective leading through the years decided all of a sudden to tell me what it felt like to be on the other side of my leadership in a way that demonstrated I'm a control freak now. My wife's not going to give an aha to that. People very close to me. No, I'm pretty controlling. But how it felt and how it debilitated and how it paralyzed on the other side of me was an aha. A true aha. And to be honest with you, it wasn't just a aha, it was a oh. It was like, wow, what I have done. And by the way, it was very successful during my 15 years of John Maxwell, CEO, it was becoming ineffective as the owner CEO, because now my control freakness was not on benefit of somebody else, it was on benefit of me. And now it was starting to feel like manipulation. It had went from motivating, let's charge the hill for John to manipulation. Let's get what's best for Mark. And I'm just telling you, Chris, it was an aha moment. You asked the question before the podcast. You went, hey, what's a moment? That you really had a blind spot on how you were misusing power. And I went, I got it. I know what it is. And you're getting the benefit of agency and empowerment. Like many people before you, because it worked so well for me before. And it was not a manipulation problem before, it was a motivation. But as it began to be me, the benefactor, I was taking that control freak that I've always been. I was turning it into manipulation for what I needed from people. And it was devastating, number one, to see that. It was devastating to see the unchecked results of that, that I. I'm still working to repair some of that. And now it's even more interesting to watch me change my mindset and to watch the Lids come off of people and they go, oh, okay, I can do this. I'm watching you. I'm watching you lead in a different way right now because you've been given the opportunity that this clarity that I had in my leadership was not even an awareness to me.

[B]

That's amazing. And, you know, I was jokingly putting you on the spot here, but like, that, seeing that and hearing that makes all the difference in the world. Yeah. So thank you for your transparency on that and that shift, because I know that it'll help our organization as a whole. But somebody else out there right now is going through this exact same thing for sure, where, you know, they're in your exact same position going, hey, I, I want to be the control person. And, and just that giving up of that control, what that does for other people to allow from the lead, because once you control it, you always have to control it.

[A]

When you lead from a place of motivation with your team, you will see that motivation turn into results like you've never seen. For instance, I was leading from a controlling environment on behalf of someone else, on behalf of the CEO and realized that when I became the top leader, that leading with control began to feel like manipulation, and that manipulation was no longer motivation. And there was a diminishing return on my team's results when I realized that I removed my control freak, my sense of power, and I began to replace it with motivation. The results and the instant step into a greater belief of impact in my team was remarkable, man.

[B]

Well, hey, first and foremost, thank you for your vulnerability today. Thank you for sharing today. It helped me grow. Hopefully it helped our podcast listeners out there grow. And I cannot wait to be back on again.

[A]

Yeah, it's going to be great, Chris. I, I, I love what we're, what we're talking about here of, of just dealing with the concept of success. I, I'm going to get to a listener comment here in just a moment, but I want to ask you a question. How do you create a culture where your team feels safe to be accountable without fear of shame or punishment? If you can get that question and really dig into it, you will have taken home a lesson from this podcast that'll make you a better leader. You can be successful and stay connected. You can be connected and successful and not be seen as too powerful, and you can be effective and successful and give others that same sense of success. Today we have a comment from Karen. Karen heard the podcast called Preparing is Caring. In fact, I would challenge you. We're going to put it in the show [e-mail] stable you can go take in this podcast, Preparing is caring. And also I'm gonna put another podcast in there called Cultivating Humility for Lasting Influence. Here's what Karen says. She says, how can I try to anticipate someone's reaction when they think differently than I do? She said. She goes on and gives some clarity. Thank you, Karen, for that. She says, we have a wide range of ages on our team, and I often have a hard time figuring out how some of them might receive the messages I'm trying to communicate. I'm not very good at getting inside someone else's head when their perspective is very different than mine, but I would like to improve. So back to this. How do I get or anticipate someone's reaction? I have a friend of mine, a great communicator, incredible communicator. When he's getting ready to stand before an audience, he tries to get as many of the people he's getting ready to speak to. He tries to get them in three or no more than four people groups, four avatars, if you will. And he makes sure that his message will impact those avatars, like a single mom, like a college student, like somebody that's pretty successful, all hearing the same message. How do I make sure that it is resonating and connecting with as many people groups as possible? So first thing I would say, Karen, is anticipate what their reaction could be. But the best way is when you're done communicating something, ask questions. What did you hear? What do you anticipate doing with what you heard? And how could I have said it better? And Karen, if you will discipline yourself to really ask those questions, it'll make a difference for you. And by the way, that's what we want to do. We want to make a difference with people that want to make a difference through this podcast. Thank you for leading today. Let's go. Lead well, because everyone deserves to be led well.

[B]

Sam,