C (8:52)

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A (9:53)

Hey, welcome back everybody. Chris, I'm glad you're here. I look forward to wrestling with this content and application to our podcast listeners. I watch you serve others. You're one of the best at it and so it's going to be fun. I'm reminded today of Gandhi's quote when he says, the best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others. When John in the lesson today said a great leader serves others, I went, wow. I think Gandhi, I think Maxwell, I think people that have this great ability and great opportunity to be self contained, to get into the believing their own press clippings and to keep that leadership from a servant of mindset is pretty spectacular. And so I'm really excited to be able to share this with you today. I would love to kind of just talk through, you know, this concept of what John says in 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, the law of addition. Leaders add value to others by serving them. I want you to talk to me just a little bit, Chris. You're all about giving people experiences that they couldn't get on their own. Tell me how you've kind of developed this mantra and this mindset into your life and leadership.

D (11:03)

Yeah, well, I mean, this was a paradox shift. I mean, I remember, you know, the law of addition, but goes all the way back to the law of the lid, you know, and in the law of the lid, it shows a graph on page five of leadership ability versus dedication to success. On page six, the exact same thing, but it shows with that increase of leadership ability. And I remember looking at that page that day and over time and eventually looked at it going, man, you know, I could dedicate my skill set to my success only. And if I stay in that lower part of that grid, I can be really good at what I am. And I could be the star, or I could buy into what this John Maxwell is talking about and become a leader, and I could be greater than the star. Like, at first I thought, you know, come on, because the, you know, the ego wants to go, oh, I could be a superstar. But something shifted when I really bought into this philosophy of serving others, of, hey, I cannot be the star or the superstar. What if I was the star creator? And when I made that shift of really putting my focus on helping others, and I remember specifically going, man, if I could help more people become managers than anybody else in the company, how much more valuable would I be to the organization? And when I made that shift and then when that became the motive, naturally what happened was all of my sales numbers went up. Our everything. You know, we begin to win often. I begin to attract great leaders. Why? Because they knew I had had one motive and one motive only, and that was to get them to the management position, to help them get pro on the job. And when I took that, I mean, it was everything in life changed for me, and I fell in love with it. So this philosophy that Zig Zealer talks about, about helping people get what they want, and with John saying, instead of asking people to serve me, I need to serve them. Instead of asking people to add value to me, I need to add value to them. You know, that is usually coming from a lack of abundance mindset when we're saying, well, I don't want to give people, I don't want to serve them. They need to serve me. But when you can give that and when you begin to serve, man, life really begins to expand. And I mean, it's good. On the other side of serving, you.

A (13:13)

Know, when you base serving others to John's first point, he says, here's what serving others has taught me. And that's kind of the whole point we're bringing to you in the podcast. He said it taught him to value people. And it struck me because as long as I've been with John 25 years, there's still so much about John's developmental of leadership mindset, philosophy, and actions that I don't know. It was all developed before I came on the team. But I often wonder, because I have felt like that valuing people is why you want to serve them. Not by serving them, understand a greater value of people. But John's teaching, hey, I really understood the value of people and how to add value to them when I had and when I adopted this servant leadership mindset. So as John was teaching that today, I was going, wow, it's truly this exponential factor that comes into place when you truly want to value someone and you begin to serve them for their agenda, for their accomplishments, rather than my agenda or my pursuits. And then you start seeing that success. It awakens the next gear of valuing people. It really awakens this concept. I know we spent all of 2024 kind of creating, distributing and proving the model of high road leadership. I talked about it, I know podcast family, I probably talked about it to the point of nausea. But it's become a mantra for us, right?

B (14:50)

Yeah.

A (14:50)

And it became a mirror for people to look at and go, ooh, that's not high road leadership, that's low road leadership. It created a mirror for us to go, ooh, I'm not very high road right there. I think when you purpose that you are going to lead others for their benefit, in other words, you're leading them for what they want to accomplish rather than what you can get out of them, I think you begin to have this cake and eat it too. Perspective. Most leaders, they want their cake and eat it too, right. They want something that benefits them and they want you to feel good about it. That's the cake.

B (15:24)

And eat it too.

A (15:24)

Hey, I really have a passion here. Feel it and maybe you'll get happy too. I've watched you, I've watched John, I've watched other servant leaders that I admire so much really, truly begin to value those people because of an intrinsic passion to value them. But I also see now that there is a greater capacity to create value for people. You do that, you. You look for people to expose them to opportunities they couldn't get on their own.

D (15:56)

Yeah, absolutely. But it's a hard shift. And what I love about this teaching though, because you can't see it on the front side of this. John is teaching what he's learned from serving others. Like, you can't see this benefit on the other side. Like, I think for the most part, a lot of people will take it as well. This is a tactic or a strategy for me to get what I really want. So it's almost starts out with the wrong motive of manip. And so you never actually reap the benefit of what he's really talking about here, but when you really embrace this and you buy into this idea of genuinely putting other people's motives first, generally serving people, generally adding value to people, there's a joy, there's a fulfillment, there is a growth on the other side that, that you cannot see on the front side of this strategy or tactic.

A (16:45)

You know, I'm glad you said that, because in this idea of valuing teamwork, which is the, the next thing that John said, it talked. I've watched a lot of leaders that don't have servant leadership at the heart level start out with nomenclature, with language about serving others. Let me serve you, let me help you get what you want. But then you start putting the team around them where there are multiple things at play, there's multiple agendas, there's multiple complexity, because now you have a team. And I've watched leaders lose their credibility. Because when you get a team of aspirational leaders or aspirational people and they start wanting this, the true colors of whether someone is a servant leader or not begins to show up. I can give you story after story after story of people that talked a great game and even when it was small, lived out that gate, right? But the more complexity you began to see, their aspirations and their real desire to manipulate people began to roll out. It's almost turned into me interviewing you. How do you determine within people that you have led before whether they're talking a good game of servant leadership? That works when it's small, but then it begins to transition to manipulation when the complexity or the challenge happens. How do you detect that early on?

D (18:10)

Well, I mean, once you're truly serving and once you truly understand these principles, it's actually really easy to see. I mean, you could see the motive very quickly and, and I say the greatest way. And if you, if you don't live this way and you can't see and you don't understand servant leadership, once you begin to understand it, time will always reveal it. Time will always reveal a person's true motives. And so if you cannot tell and you're not really sure, I gotta do it, wait a little bit, you know, because they go show up, that real person is going to show up and you're going to see, are they there really to serve others? Are they really there to serve themselves? And without fail, it shows up every single time. It may be a month, maybe a year, but it's going to show up. Time will always tell a person's motive.

A (18:57)

So recently John and I were talking, I think this will benefit definitely is relevant here. And John had a phone call come in that the person wanted to talk to. John knew I was in the room. So John popped it on speakerphone where we both could weigh in on it. And this particular leader that was asking advice was. They were really not asking advice. They were telling what they were going to do, but they packaged it as, I'm going to ask you advice. But by the time John gave them one, maybe two things to think about from a different perspective, they shut him down. And it was obvious to me, it was obvious to John. We've been in a lot of these situations. Finish the conversation. John said, well, I'll bless you for that. I'll give you my blessings or my accolades or my permission's a bad word, but I'll give you that. Go ahead, go for it. We get off the phone and I go, john, I got two questions for you. How, number one, do you bless something that you know from a leadership perspective is not right? Number two, how do you not defend and try to convince that person that what. What they are? And I. It was really a true mentorship moment for me. And so John said, well, let me, let me tell you this, Mark. He said, number one, I bless people that's already got their mind made up, because what do I want to do? Try to tear down their made up mind? I just want to let them know that I'm behind them. And by the way, when they figure out down the road that it's a bad idea, I want them to want to feel welcome to come back to me not going, well, John's going to go back. I'm going to go back to John. And they'll say, I told you so. And I went, whoa. He said, but here's the bigger reason. He said, within all of their processing, I feel like there's greatness that I can't see. Because I believe in every person, there is greatness that I cannot see. And if I try to convince them to the greatness that I can see rather than to celebrate the greatness that I cannot see, I have found that I stymie people's value rather than enhance it.

D (20:52)

Wow. Come on. I went, oh, my goodness.

A (20:56)

Because too often, Chris, I do this. And I really needed mentoring from John this, because too often I sit in this setting where somebody's making a decision. I go, this is the biggest bonehead decision that I've ever seen. And by the way, I'm a leader that sees more than before. And God's given me to you to tell you how Wrong. You really are. You're welcome, right? I mean, you're welcome. I'm getting ready to lay into you. And what John did that moment was to help me understand how to, number one, read the person. Are they really asking for advice? Are they really telling you and wanting your approval and how to give approval, even if from your leadership vantage point of seeing more? And before you see that, there could be some tough times on it, because people need to feel the value of being able to make their own decisions. But here's what I love about this story, that I didn't even start today's podcast to share the story. The next morning, John came to me and he said, hey, Mark, I'll tell you something. I couldn't get my mind off the conversation we had last night. And he said, I don't think I was clear enough as a person, as a leader in that person's life to give them the other side of the perspective of what they need to do. But how I do it is important as doing it. So would you like to watch how I do it? I went, yeah, I'd love to see it. Called the person back and he said, hey, I want you to know I see the greatness in you, and there's a chance I'm not seeing everything that you're seeing about yourself, but can I give you a vantage point of what I'm seeing about this? Shared it with the person. I'm not kidding with you. It wasn't five minutes later. It wasn't two minutes later. It was 30 seconds in the day. This was a big decision. The person went, I wasn't even seeing that. I'm going to make the other decision. The decision I knew they should have made all along. But how John helped them do that was serving them according to the value he said saw in them, which was brilliant, incredible. And too often, us leaders that see more and before we weaponize what we see rather than serve with what we see. And I'm just telling you, I learned something valuable just a couple of weeks ago in watching John serve with seeing more and before, rather than beating or mandating or weaponizing seeing more and before.

D (23:06)

And the last thing that he learned on there was that he became greatly fulfilled, that he was going from success to significance. We talk about this a lot. How have you felt significance through serving people in whatever capacity of life?

A (23:20)

Yeah. So, you know, where we get a lot of significance around here is through the work of our nonprofit. We've done really well with John's intellectual property. John sold. Sold is the key word there. 36 million copies of books. And so there's an economic model there we've been able to monetize instructionally designing his content for sell, incorporate in entrepreneur spaces and personal development self help spaces. And it's wonderful because our content truly brings life change and there's significance in what we sell as a business. But I think the greatest form of significance that we felt is in serving people that don't have a chance of ever giving anything back. They have a chance of paying it forward, which is a great sense of significance and fulfillment, but they don't ever have a chance of paying it back. And there's a big difference in paying it forward and paying it back. In our corporate space, we try to offer enough value that when you pay for it, you go, oh, that was a great exchange. You paid back. We paid back with what you gave us in the contract. But in our nonprofit, there's this pay it forward perspective and the significance of a relationship that is commissioned to pay something forward rather than pay something back. It's a depth of appreciation for what we get to do that I can't describe. And so just this past year, in 2024, we're doing transformational work in the country of Panama.

D (24:55)

Yeah.

A (24:56)

And you've been a few times. I've been a few times. I love, I love. Yeah, I love Panama. And John and I's schedule could not match the most recent trip that we had there. And so our entire team went over without us. Like 70 something. You were there, right?

D (25:15)

Yep, that's correct.

A (25:15)

There was about 70 something there. Chris and I, I started getting these reports back, and I can't tell you the feeling of significance that came at that moment. Now I just described the significance that comes from our nonprofit work to our for profit work. I gave you that. But the significance of when somebody is creating environments to where other people can pay it forward, that is off of the vision and the energy you've created. It's. It's. To me, it's without comparison with how that feels when you have inspired. I mean, imagine you and I both trying to get our kids to do something and they finally get it, and then they inspire somebody else to get some life principle too. There's just a great fulfillment when reproduction happens at the third generation.

D (26:04)

Yeah. And the reproduction was strong there in Panama. I remember sitting inside that room because this was the first trip that we had done for country transformation trip without you and John Maxwell there. And it was on the shoulders of me and Juan Verikin. The president of our Spanish platform. And I'm going, what's this going to be like? But then I found myself in this space going, hey, there's going to be a time and a place where John is not going to be there. And I think it was really at that point in time because shortly after that, I found myself going over to Cambodia without you and John. Yes. And I'm meeting with government officials, the princess and all these people, and John's not there. And it was there where I had this light, but this fulfillment of like, wait a minute, the multiplication's happening.

A (26:48)

Yes.

D (26:48)

Like I'm in these rooms now where John was, but now it's my goal and my vision to be where John is not. So for all these years it's been for me to be around you and John, but now it's like, not that I don't want to be around you guys, I want to be right beside you, but there's places that I have to be that you and John cannot in order for it to continue to multiply.

A (27:09)

And, and seeing that servant leadership expand generationally over multiple people, generations of leaders, is real fulfilling. And I think that's why John says he became greatly fulfilled when he served others and then watched them serve others. Because to the point of this entire podcast, I think there's an intrinsic value that you communicate to someone when you truly serve them without a gentleman agenda, when you truly serve them without anticipation of an exchange back, there is an intrinsic value. We did a podcast a couple of weeks ago that I would encourage all of you to go listen to about passion, getting more passion, what makes you sing, what makes you dream, what makes you cry. And there is the next generation of fulfillment, the next multiplier of fulfillment that happens when you see people inspired to serve, that inspires others to serve. So anyway, I'm extremely thankful. I'll tell you, I want to go today to a listener comment. Colin. Colin listened to the podcast. The best thing you can do for yourself and others. We'll put that in the show notes because you'll like that. But Colin says the ability to see more and before others is a powerful leadership trait. I agree, Colin. He went on to say, it's inspiring to think about how we can develop that skill through practice and discipline. And that is the thing that's the purpose of this podcast is we want to help you develop your skills and your abilities. Today, I want to share with you this four figure digital product that we've created. It's an online course on 21 laws. It's typically $1,050. And today, for those of you that really want to take the rest of 2020 and develop a leadership course to enhance to develop your leaderships, we want to give you this 21 irrefutable laws of leadership online course for $199 today. And we want to do that simply because we believe in you. We want to serve you. We want to add value. We want to cultivate that value that's in you and see it impact others around you. You can get more information about that in the Show Notes. You can find out the the link to the best thing you can do for yourself and others. You can watch this podcast again on YouTube. You can get a bonus resource that we have there for you in the Show Notes. Thanks for joining us today. We do this so that we can bring powerful positive change to the world around us because everyone deserves to be led. Well.

E (29:52)

Are you ready to elevate your leadership to new heights? Join the movement towards High Road leadership with John C. Maxwell's latest book. In High Road Leadership, John explores the power of valuing all people, doing the right things for the right reasons, and placing others above personal agendas. Learn how to inspire positive change and bring people together in a world that divides. Order now and receive exclusive bonuses including a keynote on High Road Leadership by John Mack Maxwell himself and a sneak peek into three impactful chapters. Take the first step towards becoming a High Road Leader. Visit HighRoad LeadershipBook.com to order your copy today.