Maxwell Leadership Podcast – "Your Motives Matter"

Host: Mark Cole (with teaching from John C. Maxwell)
Date: December 3, 2025
Theme: Why motives are central to transformational leadership

Episode Overview

This episode centers on one core truth in leadership: Your motives matter. John Maxwell and host Mark Cole explore why the underlying reasons behind your desire to lead shape the health, impact, and legacy of your leadership. The episode challenges listeners to undertake a deep, honest examination of their own motives, offering practical advice and memorable stories to illustrate how leaders can shift from self-centeredness to service-driven motives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Motives Matter in Leadership

• Self-Reflection: Both John Maxwell and Mark Cole stress that transformational leadership isn't only about results—it's about why you pursue those results ([01:56]).
• Motives and Influence: Mark Cole opens with foundational questions:
  • Why do you lead?
  • What do you want to be known for with your leadership?
    ("Doing the right thing for the right reason is the most important issue in leadership today." — Mark Cole, [00:39])

2. The Difference Between Motivation and Manipulation

John Maxwell outlines clear distinctions:

• Motivation is for mutual gain; Manipulation is for personal gain ([03:59]).
• Motivation values people and fosters loyalty; manipulation devalues people and breeds resentment ([04:55]).
• Memorable comparison by John:

  “Motivation empowers people. Manipulation controls people.” ([04:32])

3. Recognizing Unhealthy Motives

• Leaders may act selfishly either intentionally or from unexamined pain and insecurity ([02:45]).
• The "Golden Rule" is highlighted as the standard:

  “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That’s the standard. But it’s hard to live by.” — John Maxwell ([03:19])

• If your actions benefit you at the expense of others, you’re taking the “low road” in leadership ([06:08]).

4. Improving Your Motives Through Character and Values

• Your motives can be changed—character development and intentional choices are key ([07:10]).
• Quoting Gandhi:

  “A man of character will make himself worthy of any position that he has given.” ([07:17])

5. Reject Actions That Undermine Leadership

• Stop chasing what’s easy: “Everything worthwhile in life is uphill” ([07:46]).
• Stop chasing applause: Focusing on recognition or popularity skews motives and may compromise integrity ([08:36]).
  • John shares wisdom from Carnegie and William James about the deep human craving for appreciation and how it can sidetrack leadership ([08:52]).

Memorable Quotes

• John Maxwell ([04:55]):

  “Motivation is fueled by love and manipulation is fueled by ego. Motivation relies on substance and manipulation relies on style.”

• Mark Cole ([11:55]):

  “Your leadership is not about you. Your leadership is not about gaining status or popularity. Your leadership is about others.”

• John Maxwell ([08:52]):

  “If we are motivated by applause, we care too much about what others think about us. But if we are motivated by adding value to people, we care about what others think about themselves.”

• Mark Cole ([27:17]):

  "Do you want to be loved or do you want to lead? Sometimes you can't have both ... sometimes I shortcut my leadership looking for applause rather than looking for a moment that we will applaud later."

Breakdown of Important Segments (with Timestamps)

[01:56] — John Maxwell’s Lesson: Why Motives Matter

• Childhood lessons on right action and attitude.
• Leaders must ask, "Why do I want to lead others?"
• Selfish or unexamined motives can lead to harming others.
• Introduction of the “Golden Rule” as leadership’s guiding light.

[03:59] — Motivation vs. Manipulation

• Motivation: mutual benefit, driven by love and substance, empowers others.
• Manipulation: self-serving, driven by ego and style, controls others.

[06:08] — The Importance of Doing the Right Things for the Right Reasons

• Identifying if your actions serve your interests at the expense of others.
• Improvement possible by focusing on values, as Gandhi modeled.

[07:46] — Rejecting Actions that Undermine Leadership (Stop Chasing Easy & Applause)

• Courage in making the right decision, even if it’s hard or unpopular.
• The trap of recognition and seeking approval.

[11:27] — Mark Cole’s Application & Reflection

• Unpacking John’s points through personal and practical examples.
• Leadership story from Indonesia: shifting focus from productivity metrics to employee fulfillment increases both fulfillment and productivity ([13:15]).
• Steps for leaders to check and refine their motives.

Practical Application Points

1. Conduct a Personal Motive Check ([16:09])

• Before every important decision, ask: “Who will this benefit most?”
• Take honest inventory of your heart’s drivers.

2. Seek Honest Feedback ([18:27])

• Invite trusted colleagues to reflect and critique your motives following key meetings or decisions.
• Example: Mark describes seeking feedback after a tough meeting, revealing how frustration can be misunderstood by the team.

3. Reject Actions That Undermine Leadership ([22:05])

• Avoid shortcuts and easy fixes that dilute your effectiveness.
• Reject the need for applause—focus on effectiveness and adding value even if it’s not popular.

4. Create a Culture of Service ([34:03])

• Mark shares a story from a faith-based roundtable: senior leaders are asked, “What are you doing to serve the people on your team?” Service must precede title and position.

5. Regularly Reflect on Your “Why” ([36:19])

• Schedule regular self-assessment of your motives.
• Ask: “This year, what did I do to serve, and how can I serve better next year?”
• Revisit and rewrite your personal leadership “Why” as your context changes.

Notable Moments & Anecdotes

• The Indonesia Fulfillment Metric Story ([13:15]):
  A business leader shifted from traditional productivity metrics to assessing employee fulfillment; productivity tripled as a result.
• John’s Direct Question to Mark ([27:17]):
  “Do you want to be loved, or do you want to lead?”—led Mark on an 18-month mentorship journey about embracing effectiveness over popularity.
• Faith Roundtable Story ([34:07]):
  A pastor requires senior leaders to actively serve without their title, focusing their motivation on people over position.

Actionable Reflection Questions

• Before your next leadership decision, ask: “Am I doing this for personal gain, or because it adds value to others?” ([28:22])
• Regularly check, “Why do I lead?” and seek accountability from peers to remain grounded in service.

Tone & Language

The episode’s tone is earnest, reflective, and practical. Both John Maxwell and Mark Cole speak candidly—with anecdotes, challenging questions, and a sense of humility—to encourage listeners to wrestle honestly with their own leadership motives and embrace a journey of service.

Final Thought

"Your motives color your leadership more than anything else." — John Maxwell ([09:49])

“Thanks for checking your motives and making your motives about others, because your motives matter. And, by the way, they’ll bring powerful, positive change to the world around you, because everyone deserves to be led well.” — Mark Cole ([41:14])

For more resources and to download the episode resource, visit:
maxwellpodcast.com/motivesmatter