Part Two: Before the Big Bang: God, Alien Life & The Operating System of Reality | Dr. Brian Keating

Summary

Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown

Episode: Before the Big Bang: God, Alien Life & The Operating System of Reality (Pt 2)

Guest: Dr. Brian Keating
Hosts: Mayim Bialik & Jonathan Cohen
Date: June 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deep-diving, wide-ranging conversation, neuroscientist Mayim Bialik and co-host Jonathan Cohen continue their discussion with Dr. Brian Keating, an astrophysicist and thinker at the intersection of science and spirituality. This episode fearlessly explores some of humanity’s most profound mysteries: the scientific search for God, grappling with imposter syndrome among brilliant minds, the quest for extraterrestrial life (and the peculiarities of cattle mutilations), and whether the universe itself might be a simulation. The hosts and Dr. Keating examine how boundaries between science and spirituality blur and debate how we can rigorously investigate questions that stretch the limits of current understanding.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can God's Existence Be Scientifically Tested?

[01:40 – 07:36]

• Dr. Brian Keating asserts that the question of God’s existence should not be immune from scientific scrutiny:
  • “I don't like to have belief but I don't think we should limit God by saying what evidence he should be subjected to… you're basically saying you can't question God.” (Dr. Keating, 01:40)
• He critiques New Atheists like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, and their “calcified, sclerotic” understanding of religion—often rooted in childhood experiences and strawman versions of faith.
  • “They're left with this frozen, calcified, sclerotic view.” (Dr. Keating, 03:21)
• Mayim Bialik reframes the issue:
  • “We confuse religion with God… there's a pattern in the universe that does not care who you bow down to.” (Mayim, 04:09)
  • Emphasizes the transcendent, experiential sense of "oneness" and beauty as more fundamental than institutional religion.

2. The Value of Questioning

[06:45 – 09:43]

• Both argue institutions—whether religious or scientific—must permit questioning for progress:
  • “Anyone who says you cannot question it… If you cannot falsify it… then to me it's like a hobby with a yarmulke and some kugel on Saturdays.” (Dr. Keating, 06:45)
• Dr. Keating highlights a Talmudic ban on asking about creation “before the beginning of time” and calls it anti-scientific:
  • “I hate the knot of questions that you can’t ask. There’s a whole bunch of questions you can’t answer, and that’s my job—to either be wrong or fail…” (07:36)
• The group finds common ground in scientific and spiritual humility:
  • “I'd rather have questions that I can't answer than answers I can't question.” (referencing Feynman, Sagan, 07:36)
  • “The very word… Israel… means fights with God. You have to ask these questions.” (Dr. Keating, 07:36)

3. Anecdote vs. Data & Scientific Rigor

[13:21 – 15:37]

• The crew unpacks the tension between personal experience and the standards of science:
  • “If you cannot measure something the way you measure other things… you can't simultaneously be upset that people who like to measure things don't consider that there is proof for it.” (Mayim, 14:00)
  • “The plural of anecdote is not data.” (Dr. Keating, 28:09, echoing Mayim earlier)
• Mayim remains optimistic about future advances making more phenomena measurable.

4. On “Theory” and Imposter Syndrome in Science

[15:37 – 23:00]

• Dr. Keating warns against misunderstandings of “theory” in science (theories are well-supported frameworks—not just speculation).
• Shares a fascinating, multi-generational account of “imposter syndrome,” revealing even giants like Einstein and Newton suffered doubt:
  • “When you win a Nobel Prize… you get to meet the King of Sweden… and you sign a logbook. He [Barry Barish] sees Albert Einstein’s signature staring him in the face mocking him and he says, 'I am not fit to be in the same universe as Albert Einstein.'” (17:19)
  • “Isaac Newton, he died a virgin—he said it was his greatest accomplishment!” (18:41)
• The hosts and guest relate, underlining the universality of self-doubt among high achievers.

5. Extraterrestrial Life & Possibility vs. Probability

[23:00 – 33:04]

• Dr. Keating shares his unique religious experience at the South Pole, highlighting how rare intelligent life feels even on Earth’s vast, empty regions (Antarctica only has ~1,200 people despite its size).
• On the search for UAPs (UFOs) and aliens:
  • “We have zero evidence that UAPs are actually coming from other civilizations… We have a sample of one [Earth]. Statistically, you cannot compute an expectation from a sample of one.” (26:02)
• The group jokes about Elon Musk and Mars. Dr. Keating gifts Mayim an actual fragment of Mars as a tangible symbol of interplanetary exchange (panspermia):
  • “This is yours to keep… you can touch another piece of another world.” (27:52)
• Despite possibility, there’s no evidence for extraterrestrial life. The error comes in treating what’s possible as probable.

6. The Dangers of Confirmation Bias and “Aliens of the Gaps”

[28:57 – 33:04]

• The conversation returns to the pitfalls of seeking confirmation:
  • “You have this temptation to in science find what you’re seeking to find. The most dangerous words in science are when you say something like, ‘Eureka! I have found it!’ because you had a preconceived outcome…” (31:36)
  • True scientists must avoid “aliens of the gaps,” the tendency to fill gaps in understanding with dramatic theories.

7. Simulation Theory: The Universe as Code?

[33:04 – 37:03]

• The crew explores simulation theory as a fascinating, if unfalsifiable, hypothesis.
• Dr. Keating connects this idea with religious thinking and notes you’d need “infinite storage, infinite memory”—and we currently lack evidence.
• Quote: “The absence of a glitch is not evidence against [the simulation hypothesis].” (Dr. Keating, 34:19)

8. Conspiracy, Government Secrecy & Recent Scientist Deaths

[38:22 – 43:55]

• Mayim asks about suspicious deaths among scientists involved in nuclear/aerospace research:
  • Dr. Keating is deeply skeptical but open to mundane explanations and warns about jumping to conspiratorial or alien conclusions.
  • “The first explanation should not be the apologetic answer… to explain an anomaly based on assuming the cause to begin with. That's not scientific.” (Dr. Keating, 41:40)

9. Cattle Mutilations, Energy Weapons, and the Limits of Understanding

[42:23 – 46:16]

• Mayim presses her curiosity about cattle mutilations—a classic UFO trope. Dr. Keating draws parallels with how new technology (like WWII radar) once seemed like “magic”—and how much may remain inexplicable to laypeople.
  • “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” (Referencing Arthur C. Clarke, Dr. Keating, 43:55)
  • “Cattle mutilation is the military…” (Mayim, 45:34)
  • Dr. Keating: “I'm not gonna say it's good or bad, but it helped me understand him [another guest] on a psychological level.” (46:16)

10. Science, Imagination, and Lasting Curiosity

[46:18 – end]

• Dr. Keating presents the hosts with tokens: the “Keating medal for impossible imagination” and a piece of meteorite.
• Discussion of how true breakthroughs require humility, imagination, and openness.
• Final call-outs to Dr. Keating’s books, podcast, and Substack.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On questioning religious or scientific authority:
  “Anyone who says you cannot question it… If you cannot falsify it… then to me it's like a hobby with a yarmulke and some kugel on Saturdays.” (Dr. Keating, 06:45)

• On imposter syndrome:
  “When you win a Nobel Prize… you see Albert Einstein’s signature staring you in the face… ‘I am not fit to be in the same universe as Albert Einstein.’” (Dr. Keating, 17:19)

• On scientific progress:
  “The very word… Israel… means fights with God. You have to ask these questions.” (Dr. Keating, 07:36)

• On possibility vs. probability and alien life:
  “We have zero evidence that UAPs are actually coming from other civilizations…We have a sample of one.” (Dr. Keating, 26:02)

• On simulation theory:
  “The absence of a glitch is not evidence against [the simulation hypothesis].” (Dr. Keating, 34:19)

• On magical technology:
  “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” (Dr. Keating quoting Arthur C. Clarke, 43:55)

• On science vs. anecdote:
  “The plural of anecdote is not data.” (Dr. Keating, 28:09; and earlier)

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Segment Timestamps

• God & Science: 01:40 – 07:36
• Questioning and Intellectual Honesty: 06:45 – 09:43
• Confirmation Bias, Anecdotes, and Scientific Standards: 13:21 – 15:37
• Imposter Syndrome Stories: 15:37 – 23:00
• Life Elsewhere & Mars Rock Segment: 23:00 – 33:04
• Confirmation Bias & Aliens of the Gaps: 28:57 – 33:04
• Simulation Theory: 33:04 – 37:03
• Conspiracies & UAP Scientist Deaths: 38:22 – 43:55
• Cattle Mutilations, Magic, and Technology: 42:23 – 46:16
• Token Presentations & Concluding Remarks: 46:18 – End

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Summary & Takeaways

This episode blends rigorous curiosity with an openness to mystery, repeatedly returning to key scientific principles: skepticism, testability, and the necessity of challenging dogma—be it religious, scientific, or cultural. Dr. Brian Keating’s anecdotes enrich the discussion, while both hosts contribute philosophical, poetic, and personal perspectives. The conversation ultimately celebrates the humility, wonder, and imagination required to approach the biggest questions—acknowledging that certainty is rare, and the search for answers is as important as the answers themselves.

Transcript

[Mayim Bialik]

hi i'm i am bialik i'm jonathan cohen and welcome to part two of our conversation with physicist doctor brian keating part one of our conversation should not be missed and in part two we're going to talk about god's existence can we subject it to scientific tests imposter syndrome that every famous scientist in history has experienced the search for extraterrestrial life and i cannot help but ask about cattle mutilations and could they be connected to aliens here is part two of our conversation with doctor brian keating support comes from wise the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send money abroad with your everyday bank choose the smart way wise you can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on google no unwelcome surprises plus ditch that where's my money feeling most transfers arrive in under twenty seconds join millions saving billions on hidden fees be smart get wise download the wise app today t's and

[Dr. Brian Keating]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Dr. Brian Keating]

pick up fees may apply theory of everything theory so first of all i think that god's existence should be subjected to scientific tests now this i get into trouble you know i'm wearing this funny hat right so like people say like no you should have perfect faith i believe in you know animam i believe in perfect faith that god and all these things are going to happen and no i'm sorry i can't do that you might be able to believe that you might be able to believe you know certain things but you know my sense i don't like to have belief but i don't think we should limit god by saying what he what evidence he should be subjected to so if you do you know kind of assert that you're basically saying you can't question god and there are a lot of bad things said you know by by you know religious atheist by atheists that are almost religious in nature like some of those dogmatic people sam harris i know you've had on i've had him on my show richard dawkins i hosted him in person in your home nation last year and none of them without exception have a familiarity beyond like the basics that you might get in a yeshiva or in a sunday school because what do they do most people like lawrence krauss the most famous you know kind of of the militant new atheist who wrote a book called a universe from nothing which we later come to find nothing ain't nothing but but we'll we can discuss that some other time right his his main notion is that this is religion is damaging and sort of so he's jewish he had a bar mitzvah and then for most jewish boys carl sagan stephen jay gould sam harris the bar mitzvah that they have had that i never had that they had is the graduation it's the getting out of prison it signifies i'm never setting foot in that temple all

[Mayim Bialik]

the boys left synagogue yeah but but

[Dr. Brian Keating]

you know for me i came back to it very late in life and and and so i think i have a deeper more adult perspective on it but they're left with this frozen calcified sclerotic view but but i always say to them i said lawrence would you because i've interviewed him many many times and and i love these people but but but i have to be honest with them i can't i'm not gonna pull punches cause i wanna have some big name guest on my show this refutation of a universe from nothing from some thirteen year old pisha you know as my grandfather used to say may he rest in peace no he wouldn't accept that why not because he hasn't done the research he hasn't had enough experience but you here you are accepting this refutation of the existence of god based on the testimonials and the evidence of a thirteen year old i e you fifty sixty years ago it's infantile you would never do it and so i think it's intellectually dishonest i i

[Mayim Bialik]

agree i mean i think you know to to take sort of this other side which is not just a devil's advocate position but i think that one of the the problems is that so many of us as humans confuse religion with god and we confuse the the limitations of humans which in many cases you know like call it the patriarchy call it capitalism there's many many reasons why large structures that involve rules restrictions allegiance and membership don't tend to meet the needs of people as a whole and so this is sort of what i think is important and what we love about speaking to all kinds of physicists in particular is that there is a pattern in the universe that does not care who you bow down to and there's a pattern in the universe that doesn't care whether you believe in gravity or not and there's a pattern in the universe that has a rhythm to a feeling inside of you that is the feeling of right and it's when you see beautiful mountains it's when you see a child being born it's when you see someone die it's when you see someone on the side of the road and their body is broken that feeling in you that you are alive that does not care it doesn't care and so this notion of like oh religion's killed so many people no people have killed a lot of people in the neighborhood of religion that's not the oneness that we're looking to see in the fractal patterns of the universe that notion of like oh you know when when we have biologists and psychologists telling us like find that feeling in yourself that makes you feel like something is blooming something is alive like that's true with a capital t and depending on where your dna landed you and who raped who and who ended up where in terms of your genetic line you're scattered all over this messy messy for like a fraction of a nothing here right after eleven thirty pm eleven fifty nine pm that we you know appeared on the calendar but also this notion of like there's beauty there's shards of light right in the kind of kabbalistic tradition there's shards of light that are scattered all over the universe and we get to bring them back and you get to look through a telescope made by a three d like what and you're looking at these shards and bringing them back together and everybody gets to do it in their own way like no one has that right and any person who tells you they know what god wants is not to be

[Dr. Brian Keating]

listened to anyone who says you cannot question it correct even if it is your religion quote unquote or their religion correct if you cannot falsify it and you can't assert that it it may be fallible then to me it's it's like a hobby with a yarmulke and some kugel on saturdays right it's it's

[Mayim Bialik]

no more than that well and buddha said believe nothing believe nothing even if i say it unless it is true i mean i'm roughly paraphrasing but unless it is true for you unless you find comfort in it and that's like what's even when we spoke to saadvi right she was raised in one tradition she found truth in another but it doesn't mean there was a betrayal it's all just one and if you pull far enough back if you pull light years back right it's all the same like that's the oneness just maybe what

[Dr. Brian Keating]

you were asking before jonathan i wish it was to say like if if this is sort of dovetailing with science then you know what happens if you found scientific evidence you know that god doesn't exist or you know like would you my son asked me that the other day you know would you abandon the torah would you abandon judaism and i said no i said they're completely different things to me and yes if you can find something you know i don't believe as most people do i think that there's so much harm done by these professional religious clerics in our world maybe it's the rabbis of the talmud or whatever but the notion that we can't question them i say is complete nonsense in fact i quote in my book it's actually religiously forbidden to do what i do according to the talmud cause it says about what came at the beginning of time you may ask but what came before those days you're forbidden to ask and i say good thing they weren't grading my nsf grant because i probably wouldn't have gotten it so i hate the not of questions that you can't ask there's a whole bunch of questions you can't answer and that's my job is to either be wrong or fail and not be able to answer something right but the notion that you can't question something and there are some glib things like that or said feynman or carl sagan one of the two jewish atheists that i've mentioned so far and say like i'd rather have questions that i can't answer than answers i can't question that's so simple the very word as you know and maybe john you know too but the word israel it doesn't mean submission to god that's what islam means israel means fights with god you have to ask these questions and you have to be open to the fact that your favorite pet theory about aliens or near death experiences or you know consciousness and astral planes and all the other stuff that you've talked about many times with other guests that i might disagree with on a scientific factual basis i can't disagree on an experiential basis but i would disagree on a factual scientific empirical basis sure and they have to be open to that too you can't just assert these things and say like well you have to believe it because i saw it with my own two eyes i always say like the most dangerous words in science are not that like if i didn't see it i wouldn't have believed it it's if i may

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Dr. Brian Keating]

wouldn't have seen it that's a lot of times what happens inside it's called confirmation bias and it's the most pernicious destructive force in all of science well

[Mayim Bialik]

and it's also that's what you know is sort of taking hold and there's so many reasons to i don't mean to sound you know like i'm ninety there are so many reasons to be grateful for the technology we have for computers for social media but it's also

[Dr. Brian Keating]

to my friend candace owens please because she doesn't believe she thinks science is

[Mayim Bialik]

fake no but i think this this notion that everyone is a scientist is not true and if you see something obviously that doesn't mean that it's true if lots of people say something that also doesn't believe that it's true so i think this is what we're interested in especially you know and scott barry kaufman is a friend of ours who's a cognitive scientist at columbia and you know what he and what we are interested in and what so many of us are interested in is if you cannot measure something the way you measure other things right if you're going to tell me that something like telepathy right or telepathic ability if you're going to tell me that it doesn't behave like anything that i can measure you can't simultaneously be upset that people who like to measure things don't consider that there is proof for it and if and and there's many many reasons why there are things that are difficult to replicate in a scientific setting and as someone who used to do research like i know the room is weird it doesn't smell like home nothing seems normal no one's going to behave like they do when you're in a lab one hundred percent but if you want a scientific community to engage we need to have some way that we can have a shared language so that we can say okay this doesn't behave like testing the ph of you know this substance or whatever i'm not going to you can't weigh it you can't do all the things you do to it you can't run a pcr on it but we have to find ways and i believe that we will i believe that there's just like we have technology now that allows us to see things perceive things and experience things that we never thought possible we're going to get refinement of that at some point you do get to say this cannot be replicated and as you said you cannot challenge people's experience but anecdotal information is not the same as scientific data yeah i think

[Dr. Brian Keating]

that's a big challenge to suggest to people because people are used to thinking of the word theory like it's just oh that's just your theory that's your pet you know kind of hobby horse that you're just waxing no no no in science theory has a very very specific modality of its usage and to use it in the context of like that's just your theory or like it's a gas or like okay you know what's a theory the theory of general relativity have you ever used your gps yeah well then you're using the theory of general relativity because otherwise it would be off by hundreds of meters by the time you drove down the theory of evolution the area of evolution one hundred we have evidence for these things they're not theories they're not guesses they're not and could they be refuted yeah i hope that they are refuted in some sense you know i don't expect that they're going to be overturned look if we knew all the science look i always bring this up in my one of my books that you have over there right i talk about the imposter syndrome because despite as i said before the stereotypes to the contrary scientists are humans right and humans suffer oftentimes from the imposter syndrome you guys have

[Mayim Bialik]

talked about this before i'm suffering from it right now just in general the

[Dr. Brian Keating]

imposter syndrome afflicts scientists in this way and it's instructive to note that it does einstein had the imposter syndrome we think of him as the greatest scientist in human history and how could he possibly have the imposter syndrome he said and i quote in that book my third second book into the impossible think like a nobel prize winner i had interviewed by the time i wrote that book nine nobel prize winners since then i've interviewed twenty three and counting almost as many as you guys no it's the one thing i can say i've done slightly more nobel prize winners than you have but i didn't win a nobel prize like amy fowler but on the other hand i talked to a nobel prize winner once named barry barish here at caltech barry won the nobel prize co shared it for discovering gravitational waves from colliding black holes a billion light years away using the ligo experiment right and he did that and i talked to him and at the end of every interview i asked the same kind of you know like my conceit i say you know what would you tell yourself at age twenty to give yourself the courage to do as you've done to go into the impossible and he said i tell myself to get over the imposter syndrome and i said you mean in the past right he said no like right now i said barry you're in your late seventies you just won the nobel prize a couple years ago you know you're incredible what are you talking about and he goes no no no let me tell you something you know brian because you're never gonna win a nobel prize after your first book he said no he's a very avuncular i love this guy and he wrote the foreword to this book and he told me and the story's in that book he said brian when you win a nobel prize you go to stockholm you have your reindeer supper and you get dressed in the regalia of white coat and tails and you get to meet the king of sweden and it's a huge huge honor it occurs not on alfred nobel's birthday but on his death day two days before yours december tenth he died on december tenth you'd think you do it on his birthday no no you do it on his death day why because he had a near death experience alfred nobel had a near death experience it's the only one i believe alfred nobel you're

[Mayim Bialik]

not allowed to only believe in one if you believe in one you believe

[Dr. Brian Keating]

in them all okay so alfred nobel was walking around paris one day in eighteen eighteen eighty nine i believe it was he's walking around paris he was never married had no kids had a you know a partner but he had no kids no wife and he was walking around he saw a headline in the parisian newspaper it said alfred nobel the merchant of death is dead the man who killed more people than any other person in history because of his invention of dynamite which was used in the nobel arms factories throughout scandinavia and russia he killed more people now he's reading his obituary so as mark twain said reports of my demise have been slightly exaggerated it was his brother ludwig who had died so he realized at that moment like scrooge and and many other people get that realization a wonderful life what's the guy's name it's a wonderful life yeah bailey or yeah yeah george bailey right that he had a gift a glimpse into how the world was going to remember him and it was going to remember him as a scumbag arms dealer who killed people right so we resolved at that time to create a will which would not only be for scientific discoveries they had to very specifically be for the benefit of all humankind and that's why it has one for peace and literature also has chemistry and medicine i mean think about the first nobel prize in physics was awarded to wilhelm roentgen and it was awarded for the discovery of the x ray he invented think how many lives have been improved cancers discovered tumors because of the x ray and that's what he wanted so he had a near death experience when barry won the nobel prize barry barish getting back to that he goes to stockholm and you get this giant metal not unlike the metal you're gonna get in a little bit is that three d printed too foreshadowing yeah so you go there you get this giant metal solid gold and you get a fraction or maybe the whole one point two million dollars and you get a certificate and a painting of your face it's a really splendid ceremony and barry showed it to me he lives in santa monica and he showed it he said brian you have to sign this logbook testifying that you did get your golden medal your million dollars and your certificate so that people don't come back and say hey where's my money you know like that right so they make you sign a book so he's a curious character barry is so he turns the page and who won it before and he looks back he sees you know marie curie he sees richard feynman at caltech and he sees albert einstein and he sees their actual signature from nineteen twenty two albert's signature staring him in the face mocking him and he says i am not fit to be in the same universe as albert einstein how could i possibly be in here i'm an imposter i don't belong here i said barry i've got good news and good news when we did our interview i said barry did you know that einstein had the imposter syndrome he goes you gotta be kidding me he did he said isaac newton contributed more to science by the way science was newton's side hustle right he wrote more about alchemy and religion than he wrote about science but anyway and calculus right he said isaac newton did more for science and math and all of human civilization than any man before or since including einstein i said but that's not all barry because isaac newton had the imposter syndrome now he said oh you gotta be now you're just kidding me how could newton say that he had the imposter syndrome and it turns out isaac newton worshiped in many ways jesus christ so much so that he tried to emulate him in all the ways that he could which were very minuscule right he couldn't turn loaves into fishes he couldn't turn water into wine the ultimate alchemist well he could you know what he could do he could die a virgin and he did now some say his personality helped with that he died a virgin yes newton died a virgin he said it was his greatest accomplishment he was the most christlike as possible now i don't know if christ has a one of my professor friends made a joke about how do you choose your advisor in grad school it's just like it's more important who your advisor is than what you study in that way you want to try to emulate jesus right it's like who your advisor is yeah i get it i didn't say it was my joke okay so in that case yes imposter syndrome is real it afflicts scientists as much as any other person on earth scientists and artists yeah absolutely right we're not good enough we're not right

[Mayim Bialik]

let's pull back talk a little bit about you know the topic that i'm sure everybody asks you about is there life in the universe and you've you've kind of dropped some hints that there's so much specialness to us and also if there are trillions upon trillions of stars and planets and galaxies and all the things how on earth right outside of a religious explanation that we're chosen by god which we're going to set aside how on earth are we supposed to sort of conceptualize this because you

[Dr. Brian Keating]

bring up how on earth because one of the places that i had probably the most you know weird bizarre unusual but also almost transformational religious experience was at the bottom of the world at the south pole in antarctica antarctica is a continent which means that if you drill down deep enough under the ice under the snow you hit rock it's an actual honest to goodness continental in it unlike the north pole if you drill down ice there you go the ocean right the north polar ocean there's whales and things there's santa claus you kill them you kill misses claus but the elves die that's horrible but i've been there and it's a size of about you know about a third of the united states it's a huge continent okay when i'm there i could be like you know i i was in fact the only like practicing jew on an entire continent okay you know say what you want about the middle east or whatever like you know there's jews everywhere right there's bad there there's no chabad at the bottom of the world at south pole i was the only one there right and it's just incredible to think about how desolate it is there was only two hundred thirty five other people there in the entire part of the south pole where i was and it's seven hundred miles away from civilization where there's a whopping thousand people so the whole continent there's a thousand maybe twelve hundred people at maximum in the summertime which is when i'm there the sun's up all the time and wintertime the sun's up all the time after after the beginning of summer how

[Mayim Bialik]

do you know when to go night

[Dr. Brian Keating]

night when you go night night it's very difficult actually to sleep there is almost impossible you're at high elevation nine thousand feet above sea level so you have to pee all the time and and it's bright the sun just makes a circle around the sky twenty four hours a day seven days a week until eventually on march third march twenty first it goes below the horizon that's the first day of fall at the south pole and it comes up in september twenty first the first day of fall here spring there so it's it's not but it doesn't get pitch dark right yeah when the sun sets here it doesn't go black right so it's like but it does go pitch dark around july anyway i'm not there in july my wife doesn't like it right i gotta have chores to do so at the south pole there's a thousand people called a thousand people there now it's one seventh of the earth's landmass surfaces continents right so you'd expect roughly if you just had a bayesian if you said a probabilistic estimate how much of the population it should be about a billion people that live there no there's not so when people make these arguments that there's a trillion stars in our own galaxy and each one has ten planets or david kipping my friend david kipping was on recently talking about the possibility is not probability okay we have zero evidence that that uaps are actually coming from other civilizations that are advanced technologically somehow don't make it past the four hundred five and you know crash off santa catalina island and do tic tac maneuvers also why are they

[Mayim Bialik]

crashing they don't know how to drive

[Dr. Brian Keating]

it's like they made it here he was saying you know your your most recent guest kevin knuth who's a wonderful you know physicist and a brilliant guy you know saying that these things defy the laws of physics they live one light day away from the earth and then they come and visit the earth okay you know what else is one light day away almost it's or one day away you know china right so so let's leave aside those things but possibility of life i admit there's possibility there's possibility there could be a billion people in antarctica there's more than enough room but there's not okay so you have to deal when confronted by a brutal fact that your anecdotes your estimates they're worthless we have a sample of one and from statistics you know if you do a calculation statistics oftentimes you have one over the number minus one right so you compute the standard deviation you compute the average so n minus one for n equals one is zero so you blow up right you cannot compute an expectation from a sample of one now if we found life somewhere else even on mars okay our closest and most earth like of our celestial neighbors in the habitable zone could have liquid water on it has a lot of raw materials on it did have liquid water had flowing rivers and mountains and all sorts of volcanic activity we see no evidence of life we see no evidence of technology there although reportedly when they sent one of the rovers into the caves there on mars they found inscription you guys heard about this on the walls of the of the of the martian lava cave you didn't hear that it had just four words please like and subscribe come on you gotta know that that's what we're gonna find on mars now speaking of mars i like to use this as an example this is one of your many gifts today this mayim is a piece of mars oh so i've talked to elon musk on my podcast the only guest maybe that you guys haven't had and he wants to die on mars i hope you don't die on impact

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

i've heard he wants to go to mars but he doesn't want to die

[Dr. Brian Keating]

there it's almost impossible if he could even go there that he wouldn't die there it's not like going to the moon this is an honest to goodness fragment of the planet mars okay i brought the provenance certificate for you and this is yours to keep i gave one i have to say i gave one to joe rogan but he smoked it and i have a feeling you're not gonna do that mayim so i'm gonna give this to you you can touch another piece of another world okay now how did this get here oh

[Mayim Bialik]

it looks like shale like it looks like a very smooth it's got shiny

[Dr. Brian Keating]

it's been sliced from a bigger i'm

[Mayim Bialik]

assuming but i'm saying it looks like

[Dr. Brian Keating]

a rock yes yes jonathan take a

[Mayim Bialik]

look oh it's got a little bumpy

[Dr. Brian Keating]

edge it's got a bumpy edge it

[Mayim Bialik]

looks kind of like a cheese like a fancy cheese when it's got white on the outside no but like the fancier kind okay wow don't take it out of its face i mean it's greasy hands on it now it has

[Dr. Brian Keating]

life on it it's beautiful now it has life on isn't it beautiful it really is when you look at it now how did it get here you might wonder how did it get here

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

any theories elon didn't bring it back

[Dr. Brian Keating]

not yet panspermy it got here via the four hundred five no it got it got here panspermically the way the pansperm i love panspermia it's like one of those like frost on the pumpkin it sounds dirty it's not dirty okay it's a legitimate scientific word what is panspermia for the listeners and viewers penspermia is a theory that life on earth originated from outside the earth and was brought here by rocks meteors meteorites and other things that land here so what i like this sample for and the reason i collect samples of mars and the moon and other things is because that shows us that not only is our planet active our solar system is active we've been exchanging material with all the planets in the solar system since the time in which the solar system really coagulated out of the primordial soup of our solar system pretty much all of them i mean it's not to get out yeah i mean when you guys talk to neil degrasse tyson you know he was he's still kind of you know crowing about that but but yeah so it's far away but time keeps on ticking and we have no limit to how much has been exchanged this meteorite came as a bigger sample found in northwest africa the certificate is embedded inside this telescope so you'll never forget it and it shows it was found in northwest africa it has the chemical composition of parts of mars that have been surveyed with the mars has surveyors that fly around it rovers that it and its composition and the reason that looks red is because it has a certain amount of iron in it so it's basically a rusting planet so we look at it this will under certain conditions look reddish and so the planet earth and mars have been exchanging material for literally billions of years and some of that period of time was during the time that mars had flowing water on it right so it's almost inconceivable that we wouldn't find some evidence of life on mars that could have come from the earth to mars right it could have now people always assume the interesting thing it came backwards it came from mars to earth and that's where it started but right now we have no evidence for it we have no evidence whatsoever so the possibility of it i admit there's a huge possibility of it every couple of years people like when i was listening to david kipping on your show he's just a brilliant guy wonderful youtube channel as well great educator you know he almost looks like forlorn you know that he can't say like scream from the rooftops and that is a very dangerous situation to be in he and i have talked about this because you have this temptation to in science find what you're seeking to find the most dangerous words in science are when you say something like eureka i have found it like archimedes said because you're basically demonstrating that you had a preconceived outcome and in that case you're no different than the apologeticist the christian apologist the jewish apologist that will say that everything has a creator and therefore the universe can't come from nothing it too must have been created so that's an argument from apologetics and in this case though when we talk about aliens and we say well they could get here but you know they defy the laws of physics to get her well i'm a physicist you know i can do the dirac equation you know i can show you you know where the experimental evidence does in calibration you know why aren't you talking to me and when they convene panels like that they convene panels my my friend david spergel is the president simons foundation we started the simons observatory together and you know he convened this panel for nasa this blue ribbon panel that found ninety five percent of phenomena could be explained there are five percent that could and so then the true believers many of which i've had on my show i believe that they've seen stuff i believe that they've experienced them that as you said before the plural of anecdote is not data right it is experiences but and you know taste is not disputable right so in this case we have to look are those five percent of things do they hide all the actual phenomena i call that the aliens of the gaps you know it's like the god of the gaps like you can explain everything using god you know you just insert it there but science keeps on progressing like you said before you know that that we could find evidence for all these different phenomena including near death experiences it's true one hundred years ago i couldn't do what i'm doing now because we didn't have the technology technology always but you can't say future technology will allow us to fill in the gaps that we currently don't understand when it comes to things like aliens and so forth but it is plausible you know that that life could have originated on mars or on earth that's those are plausible but we have no evidence for it right right doesn't mean we stop looking for it how

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

do you feel about the simulation theory

[Dr. Brian Keating]

ah so i think that's part of the reason i'm here my friend rizwan verk was here oh we love him i love him too yeah he's such a sweetheart simulation hypothesis is also a very deistic kind of approach to things there's a master simulator perhaps there's the base layer of reality there's an operating system which is kind of like the torah you know for for me and so when i when i think about it you know there are a whole host of different reasons you know questions that i'd want to ask you know the master simulator i think it's an interesting speculation i'm not as you know simulation maxed as neil degrasse tyson is basically there are ways to spot for example evidence of it or basically the need in the simulation hypothesis would be for infinite storage infinite memory and it's an extrapolation of what humanity has constructed

[Mayim Bialik]

right wait what evidence i mean i know the kind of conceptual evidence of people who have ndes saying i was shown that i chose this and it's a program we're all just like in vr headsets all the time and we just don't know it and like this is real we think but it's really not what what other evidence am i looking for that you would like for

[Dr. Brian Keating]

for the simulation sure well again you're not going to prove like there's no

[Mayim Bialik]

glitches it's not like the matrix but

[Dr. Brian Keating]

that's the glit the glitch is the thing if you if you have a glitch right that could be used as evidence for something right sure but you can't say that the absence of a glitch is evidence against right true true so how do we subject it to

[Mayim Bialik]

science some people like oh planes fall out of the sky i'm like i that doesn't seem like a glitch i mean it seem horrible and tragic and something that shouldn't happen but like i don't know in this simulation mind be

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

alex breakdown is supported by incogni over

[Mayim Bialik]

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[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

incogni dot com mayim mayim bialix breakdown is supported by tumble you know life

[Mayim Bialik]

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[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

you purchase they'll ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them our show sent you

[Mayim Bialik]

shouldn't those things happen right you asked

[Dr. Brian Keating]

before you know why do you know bad things happen to good people i always say well like what's worse why do bad things happen to good people or when good things happen to bad people which which which irritates you more sure but so are either one of those evidence for simulation okay so but if you wrap it up i mean there is no atheist even dawkins even you know stephen hawking the late great stephen hawking even harris they can't refute the proposition that god is creating and rendering reality so too you can't refute the proposition now you have to ask what are the physical constraints on it just like you would ask them on god too now god gets out of it because he is omnip he's he is omnipotent he is omniscient and so forth and so on right subject to certain limitations like humans have free will and all the classic arguments that limit his power which i think are interesting and and worth exploring but again at the end of the day it has to be subject to not proof but falsification i don't see many ways that you could falsify it that doesn't mean it exists like neil said neil said like i find it hard to disagree with it well that is a sign you know perhaps of the limitation of the one who's probing it right i don't give up and say well like i don't think i could prove that the multiverse doesn't exist i'm going try to prove that sure wherever that takes me even if it takes me into a situation that makes it in tension with the bible or some religious doctrine

[Mayim Bialik]

there's something in the news that we wanted to just ask you about and you're kind of the first person that we've had on you know since this became part of the news cycle there's been and i don't know if it's like you know kind of observation bias also there's been a group of recent like deaths and disappearances of certain scientists that have been linked to nuclear research to aerospace programs you know and you know for a lot of people the answer is not sort of like aliens it's usually like a secretive government or possibly an adversarial government do you have opinions about when those things kind of break through the worlds and there's something conspicuous going on the government has already admitted that there's not been transparency which we shouldn't be surprised cuz like like you know it's the government and i would say that for any administration like the structure of the government is made for secrecy and you know lunacy but what do you make of that does that mean anything to you does it give you pause well i was really

[Dr. Brian Keating]

troubled recently a very good scientist that i respect and and admire in a lot of ways she kind of promoted one of these deaths as evidence of a cover up perhaps of uap phenomena that this scientist who is working in chile had worked on phenomena to detect anomalous signatures of flashing lights that were seen first reported in data recently was the data was collected in the nineteen fifties before the space program and it had sort of the appearance of like solar panels or so way before solar panels were invented a and way before the space program even was a thing even on the russian side now is that proof that aliens are visiting here absolutely not not however i didn't like that and i'm not going to name her but but the fact was she was conflating the fact that the scientist who died that he was working on technology that could have detected the existence of these craft currently implying perhaps that he was murdered right by some force some government didn't want his truth to get out blah blah blah when in reality the scientists went for a walk in the atacama desert which is where our simons observatory is located it's an incredibly desolate place they actually use it as a simulator for mars because it's the driest desert on earth in many ways extremely high altitude extremely rocky and desolate and he went hiking this guy older guy with like you know half a water bottle and he was found without any clothes on and they were like this is proof of it like there's apparently some phenomenon maybe neuroscientists like you can explain but when people are in the desert and unfortunately even though it could be very cold or very hot they start to do things like they take off their clothes or maybe he was doing something and he fell to his dad and it was ob obvious that he did and yes they're doing some they're still following up on some anomalies and perhaps his thing and he had a fight with a student the day before look i'm like guys this is nonsense this is tragedy and you're exploiting it to generate uncertainty and bias and mistrust in the government look i have a healthy distrust for government my brother in law is a recon marine okay he's like the toughest guy on steroids that you ever met and this guy has been to afghanistan thirty nine times times and and he's just like the bravest person i've ever known true patriot just a great guy he's been waterboarded he's been tortured he's been left to die by the government intentionally because they're trying to test him and prove his mettle and he succeeded every single time and he even defers and says i am not even as worthy as some of my colleagues who some of them give the you know the ultimate sacrifice right so i'm under no illusions that our government doesn't test people and trick people and do things but but could that not be an explanation for why we're seeing all these things and pilots in the air force and the navy see these things and maybe they're being tested maybe they're being their loyalties are being proven maybe there's adversaries that are trying to do the first explanation should not be the apologetic answer it shouldn't be like what the christian and jewish apologists do which is to explain an anomaly based on assuming the cause to begin with that's not scientific

[Mayim Bialik]

i'm gonna ask one more question before we say goodbye i have a an unnatural obsession with cattle mutilations because the cattle actually no but say less no but there there are these cattle mutilations where bizarre organs are cut out there is no evidence of how someone is arriving in these places cutting out like tongues i mean valerie's gonna back me on this one cutting out like tongues and ovaries like bizarre incisions and to me it's like whatever's happening can someone just explain it so we can stop thinking and wondering and the fact is when things are not explained you get all sorts of wonderings and when you have an internet and you have ability for people to communicate it breeds a lot of suspicion i think similarly to

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

that is the idea of these energy weapons which sixty minutes recently did the expose on where people had these horrific physical problems and were attacked in some way and it was said oh you're making it up you're going crazy and then they discover the technology that we couldn't have understood scientifically so like there's this gap between science wants these explanations and wants proof naturally and things that we cannot understand based on our current observable data that are hard to explain or maybe very real i think they

[Dr. Brian Keating]

could be impossible to explain for almost the entire population except for maybe a cadre of individual scientists don't forget as arthur c clarke who's the namesake giver of my podcast he said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic and in the sense that you come upon some new technology my favorite example is the following during world war two everyone's familiar with the manhattan project but there was an equal and opposite program going on at mit and in the uk to develop radar this was like an incredible weapon that we were able to use not only for detecting things but actually for doing espionage for doing spoofing so one of the things that louis alvarez who later went on to win the nobel prize and he was also the one who came up with the theory that the chicxulub meteor which struck the earth sixty six million years ago resulted in the death of the dinosaurs so he and his son worked on this together anyway he was one of the greatest geniuses of last century he came up with this idea when the germans are looking for our planes coming in they're sending radio waves out they had some basic radar as well so if we spoof them we can send the following because signals go down as the inverse square of the distance we transmit a signal as we're getting closer that gets weaker as the inverse square so it kept getting weaker and weaker and oh the planes are flying away and then they drop a bomb on them now if you were a german soldier and you were looking you'd say this thing was moving away from us and then it bombed us it moved faster than the speed of light i e it defied the laws of physics or as my toddler used to say it defied the laws of fixits fix it that kind of makes sense so there are many things i'm sure we don't understand cattle mutilation is the

[Mayim Bialik]

military there's no blood and they've taken out the tongue and all of the organs with surgical precision why is there

[Dr. Brian Keating]

no blood well you're a vegan so anything even me having a sandwich i feel this is going to upset suspicious i love kevin knuth i think i'm pronouncing it right yeah the one thing that bothered me about that wonderful interview that you guys did is he led off by saying in nineteen sixty eight when he was at montana state university there was a series of cattle mutilations and that got me kind of interested in anomalous things that nobody could understand and i thought well now i'm starting to learn and i wouldn't have known it if you guys hadn't asked him about it and so well i have no special expertise and i think a good scientist sure i don't know but it did illuminate something about his psychology which i'm not gonna say is good or bad i'm just saying it helped me understand him on a psychological level

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

better we should have you back to

[Mayim Bialik]

review all of our episodes yes seriously this is like this is amazing guys

[Dr. Brian Keating]

you guys are blowing my mind wait i want to present you with the final thing go ahead so you know amy farrah fowler she won the nobel

[Mayim Bialik]

prize correct and i've lost five emmys so you and i are both losers in real life well we can do

[Dr. Brian Keating]

that right but you can't write losing the nobel prize so mayim so on my podcast which is named after sir arthur c clarke's he had many statements many aphorisms one of which was the magic you know any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic another one was for every expert there's an equal and opposite expert which i like to drop on my department chair from time to time and then he said the only way of knowing the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible got it and at uc san diego i founded along with my colleagues and friends the arthur c clarke center for human imagination and i started the podcast during COVID like you guys did because authors couldn't go on book tours and i'm an author and i love to you know support authors and thinkers like nobel prize winners and so we have guests that come from all different domains but you've been an inspiration both of you guys your podcast thank you so i want to present you with the keating medal not a nobel prize but it's a keating medal for impossible imagination and it's got your name on there i love it the thing is for you jonathan this is a meteorite which i said before is the afterbirth if you like of the star that died to make our earth and inside of this is highly magnetic iron nickel cobalt and i actually give these away on my website anyone with a edu email address can win one and so maybe if you put in the show notes whatever but this is highly magnetic too and the beautiful thing about this is that the iron in this meteorite is the same as the iron in the hemoglobin molecules in our blood so these are truly connected and if you take the metal and you look on the back where the monolith is from two thousand one on space odyssey recognize that by the way you know that podcast comes from that movie didn't know that so there's an engineer at apple named vinny sirico and he developed the ipod and when he developed the ipod he said we should call it the ipod because it looks like this remember the circle on it it looks like the eye on hal from two thousand one a space odyssey no way and steve jobs loved it and they call it the ipod and today we're on a podcast whoa right so it's all thanks to arthur c clarke okay so if you look here oh no

[Mayim Bialik]

it's magic it's magic that's amazing and it's proof that cattle mutilations are from

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

aliens wow thank you so much this is really special thank you guys for

[Mayim Bialik]

being here we didn't even get to get into these incredible books and really the personal stories and transformations really that lead to the leaders who have impacted the world in such an incredibly significant way and even though you have not won a nobel prize we just we think you're amazing and we're so grateful to have you here please tell people where they can find out more about you obviously your books all the things

[Dr. Brian Keating]

i have a podcast and a substack kind of you know aping emulating you the simulation hypothesis of my embiotic so yeah so youtube channel podcast books brian

[Mayim Bialik]

keating dot com amazing thank you so

[Dr. Brian Keating]

much thank you guys

[Mayim Bialik]

i really feel like we were just getting started with

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

doctor keating for more on this conversation check out the exclusive content on substack mayim bialik's breakdown on substack and from

[Mayim Bialik]

our breakdown to the one we hope you never have we'll see you next

[Dr. Brian Keating]

time it's maya bialik's breakdown she's gonna break it down for you she's got a neuroscience phd or two non fiction ones and now she's gonna break down so break down she's gonna break it down

[Podcast Announcer/Ad Host]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Dr. Brian Keating]

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