← McElroy and Cubelic in the Morning
McElroy and Cubelic in the Morning
College athletics salary cap?| More valuable coaching or players?| Mac and Cube
00:46:58
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- [00:07]
Damian Mitchell
Welcome into McElroy and Kubelik in the morning. No Cole, no Greg today, Damian Mitchell here with you and also joined by a special guest. Many know him as the Suit. We know him as Boss man, the one and only Ryan Haney sitting in with me for three hours this morning and filling in for Calling Gray. We got to call in the big guns, brother. How are you doing this morning?
- [00:34]
Ryan Haney
Big guns. I think half the staff is on last chance before school vacation. But hey, that's, that's part of what we do. So nice to be on the other side of getting. I used to get to do this a lot more many, many moons ago when the things were different and not as much of a chance. So it's fun to be in here.
- [00:53]
Damian Mitchell
Hey, I'm glad that you're here with me for three hours, man. We're going to have some fun, talk some ball and how much do you have you watched a lot of offensive line, defensive line tape? Have you?
- [01:02]
Ryan Haney
Yeah. It's funny you say that like I didn't even go to sleep last night because I was so far behind.
- [01:08]
Damian Mitchell
SEC media days didn't catch you up or anything.
- [01:10]
Ryan Haney
That was a week. Last week was a week.
- [01:13]
Damian Mitchell
It was indeed. But appreciate you hopping in with us. Also our wonderful listeners. 205-834-9450. Your calls, your text, always welcome here on the show. Of course, we're looking at Big Ten media days coming kicking off today in Chicago. Interested to hear what Tony Petiti has to say as the Big Ten. Is he going to address the, the elephant in the room of how the Big Ten is the best conference in college athletics? I think we have something to say down here. But again, when you've, when you're the three time national champions, you've had three different schools represent your conference. You know, you, you can, you can start, you can strike that flag on
- [01:50]
Ryan Haney
down as you know, the whole thing's funny, right? It's like people spend too much time on X and social media and that's like that becomes their identity, you know. So it's like, oh, we gotta have this battle of who's the best. I mean, the two best are clear, right? Like when you start getting into the future of college football, the Big Ten, the sec, financially, other reasons, you know, stand above. So it's like I find it funny that it's like, it's almost like arguing about the afc, nfc. Oh, the NFC is better. Sure, they've won the last three or four Super Bowls, but. And here comes Patrick Mahomes right Like things change. It's cyclical. So, yeah, I'm interested to kind of to flesh this out this week and see the rebuttal, if you will, and see if there's a lot of common themes between what Commissioner Sankey did and what's going to happen up in the Big ten. Because it does seem we are at this tipping point with everything and I know seems like that's said every week, but even listening to you and Conrad back in the office last hour, we're talking about it and talking about the proposed $46 million, $50 million, whatever it is. I mean, at what point, I mean, is, okay, if this is how it's going to be, is it not just it's got to be collective bargaining and it's got to, you're going to have to have private equity to help subsidize some of this. And a lot of folks don't understand when that happens, that means there's going to be a clearing out of certain things in the athletic department because if you're in private equity, you want your money back. So, you know, it's, it's really, really an interesting time. And I've said this before, I don't know that. And I would include, this isn't like me speaking out at anyone. I would include you and I in this.
- [03:34]
Damian Mitchell
Correct.
- [03:34]
Ryan Haney
Because we're college football fans. I still don't know that everyone gathers where we're at because I still feel like there's this, oh, if this does this, then I'm never watching again and all that everybody's speaking and what they're going to do if the game changes. But the game has already changed so much. If they understand if it has or not. There's the reality of it is there's so much money to be left on the table that is left on the table and money to be made in the broadcasting rights. And you got to follow those things. It just seems like in everything in big business, it doesn't seem in everything in big business you got to ultimately follow the money. And this is no different.
- [04:13]
Damian Mitchell
Oh, 100%. And what Ryan was referring to is the call that happened a couple days ago with Senator Cruz and Senator Cantwell kind of discussing the future of the Protect College Sports act that if they, I mean, pretty much it's, it's not going to be signed anytime soon, but they're trying to get to the, they're crossing the T's and.in the eyes of the finalization of what they can present. That's something that the Big Ten and the SEC and other commissioners can agree on. The call happened a couple days ago on Sunday night, ended after midnight and it centered around a $25 million retention pool for schools to retain players in addition to the 21.3 million dollar rev share cap plus a 5 million dollar women's credit for women athletes only the credit would push the annual per school all encompassing cap to $51 million. And he says how Ross Dellinger reports. However, such an increase in the cap must be paired with restrictive language related to nil deals associated with some entities and sponsors. The language must close the loophole that schools are using to circumvent the cap. If not, the $51 million becomes the new floor instead of the ceiling. The call comes days after leader John TH and and told Hill who Hill reporters, Capitol Hill reporters that he did not expect to the bill to reach the floor by the time the Senators break for a month long recess August 7th. So when you look at one me and Conrad, we talked about this this morning as well. There's no way this is going to be sustainable for the the long term, long term health of college athletics if you're requiring, if you're requiring teams in the Big Ten one that just say like not every team pulls equal amount of weight, revenue and value as far as their, their, their college athletics are concerned. So if you're telling me that everybody across the the Power 4 is responsible for $51 million total in their athletic budget year after year after year, that's not going to the money's going to run dry. Like unless you're Texas, Texas Tech, who's to say, you know, Texas A and M, Ohio State, Notre Dame, those are the ones you could probably say have the best chance. But as far as everybody else collectively they're going to the well's going to run dry. Yeah, yeah.
- [06:34]
Ryan Haney
You're saying the best chance the other side of that is what happens when that money dies off. Meaning what happens to the person that's donating? They pass away. And if there's no it's not written out that certain money keeps going to a university. Who's to say whoever inherits that says I don't, I don't care to pay 18 year old kids all this money to go play a game.
- [06:55]
Damian Mitchell
Correct.
- [06:57]
Ryan Haney
You know that's the bottom line is all this sounds great. Who's going to enforce it?
- [07:02]
Damian Mitchell
That's the question.
- [07:03]
Ryan Haney
It's like everything else. I mean you can yes, there needs to be change. Yes it needs to come quickly. It Also needs to be right. But at the end of the day, none of it matters if you're going to enforce it. If you say everyone's going to play by the same rules, they never have.
- [07:17]
Damian Mitchell
No.
- [07:18]
Ryan Haney
Why would we assume that that's going to change now? So then it becomes, what are you going to do about it? Is it going to be selective? It's like anything. You have to choose to want to enforce something if you're going to enforce it. I don't know that there's a perfect system out there. And I understand there's a lot of people listening in that probably won't like what I say. But at some point just get the words college football out of it and just make it a separate entity that's licensed through the university or something, you know, almost. Because I don't know how it's sustainable the other way. I mean, it's where it's going, what it's going to take down with it. A lot of sports. I think you're going to see all the talk of the top 50, top 60 teams that can't afford this model if they're struggling being somewhere and the other's not. No one said that to me. That's just. I'm trying to use what I see going on because it's not going to be sustainable for everyone. And that's okay, by the way.
- [08:19]
Damian Mitchell
Right.
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Ryan Haney
But let's try to figure it out before, you know, it's, you've got this group doing their thing, this other group doing their thing, this other group doing their thing. You know, that's the. At the end of the day, it's what, when will people quit watching on tv? When will they keep going to the stadium? Everybody can complain about not liking it, but so far neither one of those things are happening. It's just the opposite.
- [08:43]
Damian Mitchell
Exactly. And to that point too, when you look at the revenue sports like football, basketball, especially on the men's side, like to your point of, okay, say if Texas A and M goes out there and lays an egg and they go six and six and they stack on, you know, an eight and four season one, well, the money ain't gonna look the same as it did when Texas A and M was, you know, 13 and 1, 12 and 2, you know, going to the College Football Playoff eventually, like you said, the big money boosters are going to look down and say, why am I trying to suffice a ro. Why am I trying to put together a roster for $30 million and then I have to disperse the rest of this, of this money to a program like say basketball doesn't get off the, doesn't get off the ground and it's okay, I'm not going to continue to fork over money. And if we're not going to have a product on the field or on the court that's sustainable of saying, okay, we can compete at the highest of high level.
- [09:35]
Ryan Haney
So, and we all know this, the more the money that comes in, the higher the expectation.
- [09:40]
Damian Mitchell
Oh, 100%. Lane Kiffin, for example.
- [09:42]
Ryan Haney
Right. You say, you say he's, it's a $50 million roster, hypothetically, supposedly whatever's been said.
- [09:47]
Damian Mitchell
Right.
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Ryan Haney
Well, sure, you have brought in the talent, but didn't we see that somewhere else in this state last year where a lot of talent was brought in?
- [09:57]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah.
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Ryan Haney
Still didn't equate for whatever reason what was going on in that facility, what was going on in the locker room, what was going on for whatever reason didn't equate to wins. So that's the other problem.
- [10:07]
Damian Mitchell
Yep.
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Ryan Haney
And yeah, that's the 50 million is the cost of doing business is what they're saying.
- [10:14]
Damian Mitchell
Right.
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Ryan Haney
To try to field a competitive team that can compete for the College Football Playoff. That's their theory. They don't make it. Epic failure.
- [10:22]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah. You're out of 40 million for that year. And like we said, I understand, you know, it's, it's always tough when it starts to get into a politician's hands when we're making decisions on college athletics and how it's, how it could look, how it should look because they have thousands of things on their mind on a day to day basis and they don't even understand and process the structure of what's going on in college athletics. And you know, when, when we had the, the, the college football roundtable with Nick Saban and amongst other leaders and he tried his best to explain like hey, this, the model that we're going is not going to sustain like we're, we're going to run dry at every single level. Even the biggest of the biggest brands are going to get to a point where it's going to be capped out. And then to your kind of what we discussed about LSU, if, if you only have 50, $51 million to, to play with or to having your budget to retain. Well, he just spent 50, 50 million of it supposedly on it, just on football.
- [11:21]
Ryan Haney
Right.
- [11:22]
Damian Mitchell
So if Will Wade still gotta fill the basketball team, LSU baseball's got to get back into the swing of things. The College World Series, not to mention some of the Other sports is tennis and all these other in track. So are they going to, if they're not bringing in a profit, what's the point of us trying to spend money to make sure they're. Their roster is up to date or up to standard, up to code because they're falling by the wayside. So if it, like you said, we're either going to get to a point where it's hey, this is college or not semi pro, but this is higher learning football because if it's not associated with the college because of the revenue that they're bringing in, not everybody's going to be on the same plan. Think of your Boston College and the ACC and, or, or Duke or somebody where it's, I mean we also academically we have to make sure we, these guys can play. But then on the other end it's oh, we have to also field a competitive team so our money pool doesn't run dry. Now basketball is going to be fine, but Duke football, now you, you lost Darium mints in the transfer portal and you, we all know like the money was good in Miami. So he's, he jumped ship from Duke to Miami. How many, how many teams are we going to say are the haves and the have nots? And it's going to get to a point where that even the pool of the halves is going to start to dwindle and we're going to have more have nots than haves.
- [12:40]
Ryan Haney
Yeah, well, that's why the NFL works. A lot of people say I don't really care about the NFL as much and that's totally fine. But you've got a salary cap, everybody's by the rules, there's luxury tax, there's all these things involved and it's set to try to give everyone. If you're playing by the rules and if your franchise chooses to spend the money, you do have a shot to fill that competitive team to, to compete. And if that's where we're headed with all of this, like our fans, the thing that worries me and all of it with fans because I think we're conditioned. I mean let's take the Saban error, right? Like Alabama hardly lost. If they lost, it was won maybe twice a year. I think once, maybe three times. Once they had it going. Something like that. Right. Well that becomes what you expect to do every season. If you're now running it like a business and you're having this money and donations are down, things like that. Or you're like, hey look, we spent more than we wanted to the last three years because we really like this crop of players we had in here. And that's when we wanted to make a run we thought was our window. Can fans accept a quote, unquote, rebuild? Because when you get the money involved in the payroll and all that, that happens. That's real life.
- [13:53]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah.
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Ryan Haney
And that kind of goes back to. Do we understand where the game's headed? I don't know if we're conditioned to think that way. But if you look in any pro sports, for the most part, take baseball out of it because there's no salary cap. You sit in the NFL, you see it in the NBA, you see it in the NHL. Sometimes you got to plan for your run and then build it back up. Look at what the Titans are doing right now in Nashville. They said, hey, look, we know we got the new stadium going. We're not gonna be able to keep all these guys. They kind of tore it down to try to build it back, to have a team that hopefully going into 27, when they open that new stadium, will be competing for the playoffs and make a run there, you know, so there's a lot of long term strategy involved, which is totally different than we think as college football fans, because everything's such. So, so in the moment, in my opinion.
- [14:38]
Damian Mitchell
And Greg has brought up this point too, where the NFL is only responsible for 32 teams. College athletics just in the FBS is 100, what, 30, 738.
- [14:49]
Ryan Haney
Right.
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Damian Mitchell
And then in the SEC and the ACE in the, in the Big Ten is 34. So is this just looking for the Big Ten and SEC, like, hey, if y' all split, this is the model that we're going to be going moving forward with y' all and then everybody else, you're kind of just left by the wayside unless you're trying to jump up and, and join this quote, unquote Super League. So that's where the kind of the Super Conference and the Super League and it kind of makes sense because, okay, if you do separate and have and you play, quote, unquote, play by your own rules, these are the rules that you're going to have to play with under and some may. Are we going to get to a point where we start relegating some teams? So if you're the Kentucky footballs of the world, hey, if you're, if you're consistently finding yourself at the bottom, I mean, you know, no shot at Mississippi State, but the past couple seasons you've been down there at the bottom, your
- [15:38]
Ryan Haney
basketball, I Think that's where it needs to be. Right. Because if from my as a fan, what I'd like to see put the people that do have the resources and can compete regardless of what it's been in the past and make the most competitive league and tier it that way, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And then you see who the best is based off those kinds of things.
- [16:00]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah, because you got to think we don't even see like the Big Ten for example. They're not contractually obligated to play a Power 4 school. If you schedule a Power 4 school, cool. If not, we'll continue with the season on as it is because I think as a fan we, when we're having these discussions of, you know, a home and home between certain, you know, big time programs and then a couple years down the road they start to x them out because of the fact that, oh, it's not going to bring in any money. But also we're, I feel as though as the fans we're kind of handcuffed because we don't get a chance to see those matchups. And that's one thing I would say about scheduling back in the day. Like you've got those, you know, the Michigan's and and versus Miami's. You got the Nebraska's versus, you know, Florida States of the world. And you got them on a pretty yearly basis because it was no, we want the best teams to play in the regular season but everybody's trying to save themselves for the College Football Playoff. And really and truly, if you don't navigate your conference schedule, there's no guarantee you're going to be playing for the college football playoffs. So why not go ahead and get that stuff, you know, taken care of like I, I kudos to Texas and Ohio State for the past two seasons. Right. We're going, we're getting those matchups but we don't see those on a regular basis on a regular occurrence because of the fact that, hey, I don't want to suffer a loss because if I lose, if anything it's shown you the com the committee's going to honor that. Hey, y' all at least put them on the schedule and y' all played them early on. So you know, if Texas hadn't lost to Florida late in the season, they ended up having a good win over Oklahoma and a not played Ohio State, they probably their strength of schedule wouldn't have looked as good because of the fact that, oh, at least y' all were willing to go Go to Columbus and actually play.
- [17:36]
Ryan Haney
Yeah, excellent point. We'll take your text on that. 205-834-9450 as McElroy and Kublick in the morning rolls on.
- [17:55]
Damian Mitchell
Welcome back into McElroy and Kubelik in the morning. Damian Mitchell and Ryan Haney the suit in with you today filling in for the guys. Call back with you tomorrow. Greg out the Rest of the week. 205-834-9450 Been discussing just the, the changes around college athletics. The Cruise Cantwell bill. Is it going to, are they going to fine tune the language? Is $51 million even enough? That's another question too. If that's the number that they came up with, is that even going to be enough moving forward?
- [18:29]
Ryan Haney
No, it's not going to be enough. Just look, the way technology is moving right in every industry and the way everyone just sees the cost being for players or whatever, right? Like it's the number of staff that's needed now, the innovation that's needed, the way they can sell to a player. Look, you just got out of practice. Come sit in this chair or stand on this virtual field and let's talk through what we did. I mean it's mind blowing. Some of the tools that are out there that increase by the day, while that takes time or cost money, it takes people to work with those things. Everybody's looking for that edge. So I think when everyone hears right now the words money go straight to the players. What about the coaching contracts? Yeah, think about that. I mean, look, I'm not saying they shouldn't make it, but I mean if you're, if you're paying a coach 14, 15, 30, 13, 12, however much million dollars a year, what can that go to a roster? And at what point I think you see this sometimes do these head coach or these athletic directors say, hey look, we like this guy, we could get him for six or seven million dollars rather than pay 10 or 11. That's three or four million dollars you have for something else. You have to start thinking of it that way. It's crazy that in my opinion I could be totally wrong. But it's. Otherwise how are you going to pay for all this stuff?
- [19:43]
Damian Mitchell
Correct. It's to a point where like this is such a business now and it has to operate as such. And you know, I, somebody that's being like so young into it, I know I'm only, I'm only 30, but even in the span of about 10 years I've seen the game that I even grew up with looks complete. It's completely different. And I can only imagine for people that are older it's man like you genuinely have no idea what your roster is going to look like year to year to year to year. And even in the span like think of India, Indiana until Kurt Signetti got there was the losing is the most losing his program in college football in power for college football. And yet they just won the national championship this past year.
- [20:28]
Ryan Haney
So what it was. So what is the takeaway from that? To me it's if you get the coach right, the rest can fall into place. The players will culture the culture the process. All those things. He realized, hey I can get a bunch of good players that need further development. They're older and I think that gives us the advantage. And it happened to work for him. It's not always going to be the case because nothing is obviously perfect. But you know, that's the question that I find fascinating. I'd love to hear on the text line or you can call in 205-834-9450. Would you rather see your team focus if they had to make a choice on the infrastructure, the coaching staff spend more of your resources there because they can get more out of the players they have or do you think it's all. No, we'd rather have the best, the best roster in just decent coaching. Because it is a puzzle to try to make all this work finance wise. If this, you know where it's going. And I, you know, you just talk about the changing of the game and where it is going. What do people value? You see what I'm saying? Because going back to your thing about Indiana and Kurt Signetti, he didn't just stumble on that in two years like he had a plan and it worked well now everybody looks at and says well Kurt Signetti wanted Indiana in two years and won a national championship. Anyone else can. Well, when you have a $50 million roster like LSU does, what do people expect if you're writing that check right.
- [21:58]
Damian Mitchell
Return on investment. And I think that's, that's the unique, that's the unique spot that we're in. Because you saw and speaking of Lane Kiffin when he was at Ole Miss like he poor. He coined himself as the portal King.
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Ryan Haney
Yeah.
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Damian Mitchell
And Ole Miss, they were more successful than they had been in years past. But was it really a culture being built or was it just, hey, we need a roster today. And think about it from perspective.
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Ryan Haney
Last year I think, I think, you know, Lane, you can, you can tee up Lane For a lot of things in that, that's fine. A lot of it he says or
- [22:34]
Damian Mitchell
does, but he can coach ball.
- [22:36]
Ryan Haney
He can coach ball. But I think he figured out the portal a lot better than a lot of people did on the front end. Again, that's not biking. Well, he went to the portal. Yeah, but he made the right moves and he did it and he was able to do it. The question is, is it the portal or is it the high school players moving forward? Here's the other thing. You're paying a high school kid a lot. He signs out of high school. Dutton materialize as quick. Don't want to pay him again that amount the second year or he hasn't played enough, he's going to transfer. Yeah, you know, it's just, it's the reality of it all.
- [23:07]
Damian Mitchell
And that's the thing, that's the thing about college athletics. Now that we're in, it's, it's such a money making machine. Like it, it's going to print money. You're, for the most part, if you're successful, you're going to get a return on your investment. But also on that same token, you're giving the players and the athletes a ton of leverage because one, you can bring in as much money as you, as you possibly can if your team is successful, all the eyeballs, the ticket revenue, you're bringing it in. But also if the player gets some and they feel as though, oh, their value is, is more than what it is at the present moment, like you said, they can hit the transfer portal. That doesn't happen in real.
- [23:46]
Ryan Haney
Right. John Mack text in Gentlemen, Texas A and M is not the same as the other Schools. We have 22,000 oil wells in the Permian Basin generating 65,000 barrels of oil a day. That's $6.5 million a day. Well, I mean, that goes back to your point. Texas A and M is always going to be in the halves, correct? That's fine. But at what point if all this money's going in, should Texas A and M be in the Final Four, Final Eight every year? Every year, last year should, you know, because that's how it's going to be viewed, correct. Texas Tech in there, through Texas, you got Notre Dame. If Mark Cuban's pouring Indiana into Indiana, usc, Tennessee, there's some other teams that come to mind. You know as well as you go through that. But if that's the case, then
- [24:31]
Damian Mitchell
last year shouldn't just be a, right, an exception to the rule. That should be the standard moving forward. And even Mike Elko talked about that during SEC media days. And he talked, he talked. What keeps the players, you know, grounded? What keeps him humble? It's. He looks, he walks by that trophy case every single day and it's empty. So at some point, if you're going to continue to pour in that money, when do you get the SEC championship game appearance? Or when do you get to play for a college football national title instead? So if, if that is the benchmark, then that should be, that model should be sustainable from years to come. And think about Texas, for example. I mean, Texas, the brand we know. But when you look at it holistically, the history of it, they've had blips on the radar.
- [25:16]
Ryan Haney
Dan texted in at 205-834-9450. College football is watered down. It's not about the coaches or the players. It's about the pimps. The pimps run college football. He makes a decent point there. There are a lot of people involved, always, you say, have their handouts that are influencing things. I've heard them called street pimps. I've heard them called that in high school football too. Probably an accurate term for some of the stuff you hear that goes on. But to his, to, I think Dan. Is that right? Yeah. To Dan's point, I know how you get it. Get rid of it. Because there's always going to be third party influencers involved.
- [25:51]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah. And then think about some of the teams that, I mean, we're, we're, we're trying to find ways and trying to not necessarily invent the wheel, but we're trying to bring in more income as possible. And you think about the logo patches that are on jerseys now. Never would have thought back in the day that would be an issue. Now we have them on stadiums and the licensing deals on some of the names of stadiums. Like they're, they're changing because you have to be able to get some sort of revenue, some sort of, like you said, return on investment at every way, shape or form.
- [26:19]
Ryan Haney
Yeah. So lead text in. He says collegiate money should be invested in the coaches instead of the players. Players can bring a winning season to a team, but coaches establish a winner culture that can be repeated. It should be winning culture. I think you put winner should be. Can be repeated year after year. That goes back to the Kurt Signetti example. And that's why I find it fascinating. It's because everybody's like, oh, well, the roster is this amount. Well, yeah, but if you don't have. I mean, that was the knock On Hugh Freeze last year, was it not. Everybody said, he's got the roster now, this is going to be 100% on him if he can't win. And it was.
- [26:52]
Damian Mitchell
And it was.
- [26:53]
Ryan Haney
So it's fascinating to see different people think different things. Some people think, no, just get the roster if you got a guy that can draws something up. But I'm with Lee, it always starts and ends with the culture, you know, See, and that's.
- [27:09]
Damian Mitchell
So that's.
- [27:10]
Ryan Haney
If you don't, if you don't have the right culture and foster that every day and consistently, right, a program that large, you're not going to reach your, the potential goals that you want to reach.
- [27:19]
Damian Mitchell
And see, that's where it's, it's a little bit unique for like South Carolina, for example. I think Shane Beamer establishes a good culture at South Carolina, but they don't consistently get those Jimmies and Joes there to play at South Carolina. So it's kind of that balance of man, you know, if he can get the talents of, you know, Dylan Stewart, Lenore Sellers, but on a winning side of things, they're not consistently there, but he can. He's shown they can get players because that's what him and him and Mark Stoops used to have a little bit battle of, you know, Mark Stoops and say, like, hey, we're building the culture over here in Kentucky. Like, this is our identity. This is how it goes. But then you look on the field and it's man, okay, well, when are they going to get over that hump? And I think nowadays, because like you said, if we're spending X amount on a roster, the expectations are going to flip over quickly. Like, think about Tennessee and how many people, like, are starting to turn on Josh Hypo when it was bone dry when he got there.
- [28:18]
Ryan Haney
Like, that's a whole, that's, that, that's a whole nother thing. We could spend the next two and a half hours. It's like, people get on Kalin Debore. We can go down that rabbit hole because I'm with you. But again, that money changes everything. You're throwing out money at a certain level. Fair or not, people throwing out the money want the return on their investment. And if there's a lot of people throwing in money to help get these players in their, in their mind not getting what they thought they should get paid for, it creates a problem within these systems. 205-834-9450 where is your thoughts on where college football is headed? Is this sustainable. Would you like to see more thrown at coaches or players? Several of you have chimed in and we'll get to those on the other side. This is McElroy and Kubelik in the Morning,
- [29:13]
Damian Mitchell
7:35 here on McElroy and Kublick in the Morning. Damian and Ryan here with you trying to fix college sports. How are we going to do it? Great conversation. You can join in 205-834-9450. Your texture calls always welcome. Pretty sure we're going to be getting to a lot of these questions and comments at our Jocks Kickoff Party, which you can come celebrate the kickoff to college football with us at the Bill Smith Buick GMC Jocks Kickoff Party in the ballroom at Regents Field. To win a pair of tickets for you and the guests, text the keyword winner and your Full name to 205-834-9450. Again, that keyword is winner W I N N E R and your full name. The 205-834-9450 winners are drawn and notified daily. It's the Bill Smith Buick GMC Jocks Kickoff Party presented by Myers Tree Service. For more information, visit jocksfm.com being in
- [30:11]
Ryan Haney
the ballroom before we get back to this just opens up a lot of things can be able to do some things we haven't done in years past being indoors there at Regents Field and had confirmed yesterday Coach Mortensen will join us from uab. So he's going to come. Yeah. Going to kind of talk about his first season for a few minutes to those that are in attendance. So good luck to all those registering. We'll be registering through next Friday. Again, every day we draw winners. I think it's five, six, seven, eight winners, whatever the number is, but they're drawn every day. If you don't win today, try again tomorrow. It's a new keyword. All right. 205-834-9450. Ryan and Damien in for Cole and Greg. You can text or call us as we continue this conversation. You know, where is the money best spent is kind of what we're talking about right now in college football with all these proposals and things out there. And Drew has texted in listing on the UMP and Huntsville. He says money is probably better spent on coaches, but the coach will tell you to spend it on the players. You can have an expensive roster, but without the leader, it won't work. Kind of case in point, Auburn last year had all the five stars and this and that. It didn't work. It didn't translate into wins. So that is, somebody's going to pay the price. When that happens, I think Kurt Signetti, the way we talk about, I think this gets lost in all that we talk about Indiana, well, that's nil. See what can happen now Indiana is suddenly good. Everybody forgets what the guy that came in and I mean the guy stood up there. I'll never forget. I remember he had taken the job a couple days before and it was like a cba. I think it was like a Sunday afternoon basketball game or something. And he was speaking there at assembly hall and that's when he went off on Ohio State and Michigan and then most of all Purdue. And I kind of like, man, this is kind of interesting this guy's saying this. And I thought to myself, I hope he put his money where his mouth is. I mean, you haven't seen Indiana do that. And he's done it and he's done
- [32:07]
Damian Mitchell
it at the highest level.
- [32:08]
Ryan Haney
At the highest level. Right?
- [32:10]
Damian Mitchell
And I think, and to your point too, when it comes to the coaching side of it all, like you, some coaches kind of, they're different. So when you look at Dabo Sweeney and now in this Nil era, we haven't seen Clemson be at the heights that they've consistently, they were consistently at during the mid-2010s because he was sticking to the old model and trying to say like, no, this is what's worked for me. We're gonna keep this thing rolling. And at first he was anti transfer portal. Like, no, we're not going to get, we're not looking in the portal. We're gonna build them up, develop them and we'll, we'll see where they go. But I think that end up being his Achilles heel because he saw these other, these other programs, they're jumping them instantly. Like you look at Miami, what they were able to do with Cam Ward a couple years ago and then you follow that up with Carson Beck last year with a national championship appearance and now you're going to the well again with Darian Mensah, who's on his third school in three years. So when you look at like coaching has a major part in all of this because Kirby Smart, even with the changes around it, still has Georgia at a, at a consistent level of being at the top or near the top in college football. And to me, when you look at what, what Josh Hyp done at Tennessee from where, I mean again the, the nature of the game changed. They took advantage of it with the addition to Hinden Hooker and those guys and other places as well. But I do think when you, you bring up a great point when it comes to coaching because Florida is now on their third coach in the last what, six seasons. So even programs that were like we thought like they would never drop off, you see that, hey, if you're not come, if you're not, if you're not keeping up with the Joneses, you're going to get left behind. And acquiring talent has never been a problem at Florida. Has never been a problem. And now with John Sumrall who's only been a head coach and granted I didn't realize this until I started looking at SEC media day. He's only been a head coach for four. For four years.
- [34:08]
Ryan Haney
Sure.
- [34:09]
Damian Mitchell
Only been a head coach for four years and now he's landed at the job like Florida. And the expectation at least from, I mean you look at his demeanor like it's easy to gravitate towards somebody like that. But he knows what this new age is. He still has old school principles, but I feel as though he's going to get the best out of the players that he has and he's still got a chance to get guys out of the transfer portal. Getting guys out of high school, going to Florida, that it's, it's still coaching is still the. Not necessarily end all be all because you still gotta have the Jimmy's and Joe's, but you got to have a leader in place that is able to, to relegate and able to say, hey, like, hey, this is what we're doing. This is the plan. This is how we're going to go about it. He's not blowing smoke. It is. No, this is what we're going to do. This is how it's going to be executed and let's go out here and play ball. Like there's so many caveats because I think, you know, Kurt Signetti being a coach under Nick Saban, I'm pretty sure he was a sponge and soaked up a lot of game from him. But he also was a head coach of Elon. It doesn't, I don't know too many people that are saying like I want to, I want to take that Elon job. He went.
- [35:11]
Ryan Haney
Your responsibilities at Elon are a lot different than they are at Alabama. You might not be getting on the tractor, cutting the practice field at Alabama. Like you might have to at Elon or something like that. Yeah.
- [35:20]
Damian Mitchell
And kind of goes back and then he went to James Madison, had success at James Madison, parlayed him to Indiana of all places. And again, when you look at the players that he had, he got Fernando Mendoza from California. The only reason I know who Fernando Mendoza was going into the season is because they played Auburn. And it wasn't like he lit Auburn up. It was okay. Like, I remember him playing. Never would have thought that he was going to end up being the Heisman Trophy winner, the number one overall pick. Now he's the. The Las Vegas Raiders quarterback. So it's okay. Who brought that out of him? His plate? I mean, his play wasn't terrible at Cal with Coach Wilcox, but Coach Signetti and the pieces that he put around him, you. You saw his game elevate.
- [35:59]
Ryan Haney
A lot of folks texting in saying they think it should go, just what you're talking about, into coaching and development. Jason's texted in and says, I think what we don't talk about enough with coaching is how Ohio State has adapted the new Nick Saban model, which is you have an NFL coaching roster to draw in talent for the next level. Whereas, like DeBoer from Alabama, in comparison, it's like elementary school versus varsity. I don't know. I think. I think in the front end, I see what he's going for there. Ohio State's got a lot of guys from the NFL they're selling, hey, we know what it takes. You're getting here. These guys. Arthur Smith, now former Steelers off the Falcons, offensive coordinator, or head coach at the Falcons, I should say, then Titans offensive coordinators, now the offensive coordinator there. You had the defensive coordinator that was with Belichick. Oh, gosh, he left after this year, the bearded guy. Anyway, Patricia, Matt, Patricia, Matt. Patricia. You've had Chip Kelly, you've had a lot of that. And I think that's the point he's making. There's. That's what they're selling. And I guess the point is Alabama is not right there.
- [37:09]
Damian Mitchell
Well, I mean, the Caitlin DeBoer situation,
- [37:12]
Ryan Haney
to me, yeah, that's a whole nother.
- [37:14]
Damian Mitchell
I know. And it's.
- [37:15]
Ryan Haney
The poor guy. I mean, other than his name not being Nick Saban, I mean, what have people expected? That's, again, that's a whole nother discussion.
- [37:22]
Damian Mitchell
But it's a fact. And people can't get over a loss to Vanderbilt. They can't get over, you know, two losses to Oklahoma, yet you did knock off Oklahoma.
- [37:29]
Ryan Haney
But again, let's go back to the origins of this conversation.
- [37:34]
Damian Mitchell
It wasn't like it used to be.
- [37:36]
Ryan Haney
It's not like it used to be. And, you know, I was talking. I think it was a Pat Smith yesterday. And people, people go, oh my, the rankings for SEC media days and Big Ten media days and preseason polls and all that, which I get why we do it. But I just think it's funny because everybody voting couldn't tell you everything you need to know. And again, there's certain things you don't know with rosters right now, but like what is first place in a conference now? Is it where, where is that baseline that you see it with the parity that's out there? Is it nine and oh, is it seven and two? Is it six and three? So point being, you could have six teams tied for first in the team that's one loss behind him is technically seventh. So that can be misleading.
- [38:21]
Damian Mitchell
That is true.
- [38:22]
Ryan Haney
So I think it kind of goes back to, okay, yeah, you lost to Vanderbilt, lost Oklahoma. You still made the playoff. You beat the team that beat you earlier in the season. Correct. In year two.
- [38:32]
Damian Mitchell
It's still not enough. It's still not enough. I always talk about the 2025 season, but only.
- [38:39]
Ryan Haney
But only one team is going to win it.
- [38:40]
Damian Mitchell
Correct. Only one.
- [38:41]
Ryan Haney
It's like if you make it to the Final Four in basketball, that's a huge feat. Right. You're disappointed if you lose in the semifinals or in the championship game. But Alabama and Auburn getting to the Final Four when they've done it is a huge feat. So you could still celebrate it again. I get where certain schools were, especially Alabama under the Saban years, but I mean, Saban's gone. He also left for a reason.
- [39:04]
Damian Mitchell
Correct.
- [39:05]
Ryan Haney
He didn't want to deal with this mess.
- [39:07]
Damian Mitchell
He's getting too up there in age.
- [39:09]
Ryan Haney
I mean, he's up there in age.
- [39:10]
Damian Mitchell
Can't deal with it.
- [39:11]
Ryan Haney
Yeah, new coaching staff, they've turned over a lot of stuff. They got to get their guys in there. Two years in and you got a playoff win. I don't understand why the sky's falling in Tuscaloosa. Just me.
- [39:22]
Damian Mitchell
You're not alone. You're not alone. 205-834-9450. We keep the conversation going on the other side. Keep a locked right on jocks.
- [39:36]
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- [40:06]
Chris Van Vleet
Hey, I'm Chris VanVleet. Go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines with the biggest names in pro wrestling and beyond. Mr. Sandman. All I ever wanted to be was a pro wrestler so I got to
- [40:16]
Damian Mitchell
live my life and make people really happy.
- [40:19]
Chris Van Vleet
The Heartbreak Kid himself, Shawn Michaels. Do you think there's anybody better than you were? I think I was great at what I did and I think other people were great at what they did as well. Greatness is more mindset, I think than anything else. Mindset, motivation, insight with Chris Van Vleet. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
- [40:40]
Damian Mitchell
Welcome back into McElroy and Kublick in the morning. Damian Mitchell and Ryan Haney in for the guys this morning trying to figure out what's going on with college athletics. How do we fix it? It's, it's $51 million even enough to sustain with the Cruise Cantwell bill. That's doesn't look like it's going to be passed but they're at least trying to fine tune and get some sort of structure for it. 205-834-9450 Been having some great conversation on the jocks text line as you can hop in and continue the conversation as well.
- [41:12]
Ryan Haney
Nathan has texted in and he said could bigger programs contractually work with smaller programs to build rosters? For instance, could Florida work with Troy? Florida max out both limits on roster development and Troy be a feeder school for talent they want to develop and come get one day. Could that also apply to staff systems and schemes? So that would be a symbol that would be a, almost a major league baseball model right where you got the farm systems, you got players, stuff like that. I think that's a fascinating concept. I think it in the current landscape of college, I don't know how it would work with college affiliations and stuff but I see what he's going for there. Yeah, I see totally what he's going for there. Almost makes you wonder if you could have some juco programs that were more feeder systems, things like that which I
- [41:55]
Damian Mitchell
mean it used to kind of be.
- [41:56]
Ryan Haney
Yeah, it used to kind of be like that. Yeah,
- [41:59]
Damian Mitchell
that'd be tough because then, because at that point say if that does happen and each power four school had a group of six school. Well if a G6 program ends up going to feed and they're going in the college football playoff and what's to say that they playing say if Ohio State and again this is just Hypothetically speaking. And Miami of Ohio ends up going into the College Football Playoff and they match up with Ohio State. It's basically saying like we're going to beat you and we're also going to take some of your players along with us. You're feeding us.
- [42:32]
Ryan Haney
That kind of already happens anyway.
- [42:34]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah, that's why, yeah, that's why they don't video. That's why they don't, they don't air spring games anymore.
- [42:39]
Ryan Haney
Well, no, and I get what he's going for. In theory, that sounds good. In theory. It makes sense organizationally in the way things without all the conferences just entirely blowing up, which I don't think think will happen.
- [42:51]
Damian Mitchell
Right.
- [42:52]
Ryan Haney
That would be tough to pull off.
- [42:54]
Damian Mitchell
Yeah, but that's an interesting. I've yet to hear anybody think of, think of it that way.
- [43:00]
Ryan Haney
Well, I mean, I think it's kind of, that's why it's a fascinating conversation because everyone's got different ideas on what could you do to make it. It's, it seems like in this whole hour, this conversation, what we keep going back to is he who spends the most money should win the title. In theory, probably, yeah. That means you should have the most resources, the best players, the top notch coaching. You have the best edge in the weight room, the edge and nutrition, everything that goes into it. But that's not always the case. And that's the problem. When it doesn't happen, then the frustration from those writing the big checks to get these players in create creates a problem.
- [43:40]
Damian Mitchell
It does. Like, because like, to me it's such a, like it's, it's such a tough concept to really wrap your head around. It's like for example, if we go into 20, 26 and Lane Kiffin and LSU, they don't say if they, they throw up on themselves because again, Lane has shown that he, he can find one or two games on the schedule where you're expected to win. You find out you don't, you mess around, you lose. Say if that happens at LSU in year one, is that fan base going to be patient enough saying like, hey, you know what? We'll, we'll take that one. But my God, you're on bar.
- [44:20]
Ryan Haney
But nope. But very few people are patient with
- [44:23]
Damian Mitchell
anything that's, that's a side.
- [44:25]
Ryan Haney
I mean really kind of the way you people want it all now in college football is no different than the way people want it now. What you see in the world and social media, because everything's moving so fast and there's not a lot of context to anything.
- [44:37]
Damian Mitchell
It's like cable tv.
- [44:39]
Ryan Haney
Yeah. I mean, it's. I read someone online the other day, someone was complimenting how Alex Golish had handled himself and said, you know, I think the most important thing this year, I have no goals, but I set the foundation. I thought that was very honest and profound statement that he said rather than try to come in and say, oh, we're going to go do this in year one or whatever. And I wrote somebody and I saw one of the responses and again, to each their own. But somebody was like, this isn't good enough. This is. This is just an excuse. You've got the money to bring the roster. You should win right now. Well, okay. But I think Auburn right now, from what I've seen over the last five or six seasons on the football field, needs a solid foundation more than they need a one hit, go 10 and two and then it go backwards next year. Yeah, whatever.
- [45:28]
Damian Mitchell
That's just my opinion because on paper, the collection of talent that you had. Yeah, we, we expected more because we also. But the thing is, we had question marks going into last season, as we do every single season.
- [45:39]
Ryan Haney
But the point being the head coach is saying, this is the way we get to where you Auburn fans want it all. And you. And you're going to have that with fan bases. I get that.
- [45:47]
Grainger Announcer
Right.
- [45:47]
Ryan Haney
But there some people are saying that's not enough. Well, I mean, so they're wanting him to pay for the sins of the father. Right, Right.
- [45:54]
Damian Mitchell
And think of Clark Lee example for Vanderbilt. They're not, they don't have to report what they have because they're a private school. They, we don't know. But you know, nobody was knocking down the door to get Diego Pavia on their campus. He was coming from New Mexico State. Right. And he goes go to Nashville, Tennessee at Vanderbilt of all places. A place that we knew year after year we could just pencil in at number 16 or number 14 during that time when there were 14 teams in the league of they're going to be last, they're going to be at the bottom. I mean, James Franklin had a couple of years of success there that parlayed him to Penn State. But Clark Lee, it's been the, the model of, hey, if you give me some time, if you are patient, there's also. There are good things that we're going to build here and there was a foundation. Now granted, now is going to be the telltale sign of that because now you're. It's 2026 AD after Diego. What is it going to look like. But also he got a five star to first five star ever to sign at Vanderbilt. So I, I think that what, what we're getting to is kind of the crux of it all. Coaching is important. You got to have a, a guy in place that if you can give him time to build this thing up. Think of Josh Hypo in 2020. Nobody. I said they were going to win 10 games in 2022 only because I saw how the offense was looking. It wasn't looking like the archaic Jeremy Pruitt where they're going to run the ball in a cloud of dust. It was these long shots that hidden hooker's missing in 21. If he makes 30 more, 30% more of those, they're going to be explosives. And you saw that. So we'll continue the conversation. We'll take a look at the SEC in 2026. How many teams again? Right now we're just projecting how many teams could, could be SEC champion at the end of the season. We'll keep that conversation on the other side. Hear from you. 205834, 9450. Keep a lock for hour number two on McElroy and Cuba in the morning.
- [47:53]
Chris Van Vleet
Hey, I'm Chris Van Vliet. Go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines with the biggest names in pro wrestling and beyond. Jeff Jarrett. Great to see you in this business. The story behind the scenes so much more entertaining than what you see on camera.
- [48:06]
Ryan Haney
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Paul Heyman.
- [48:08]
Chris Van Vleet
Mr. Heyman, you are a master at the little things. That's how you turn good into great.
- [48:13]
Ryan Haney
What does it take to achieve greatness? Whatever it takes, I'm willing to do.
- [48:17]
Chris Van Vleet
That's an Emmy winning performance. How about it Insight with Chris Family? Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
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Ryan Haney
Scrolling with Haley.
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Chris Van Vleet
Join Haley Caronia as she scrolls through the biggest headlines.
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- [48:56]
Damian Mitchell
Scrolling with Haley.
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