SEC vs Big Ten - who's best | Heather Dinich talks 20-team Playoff | Mac & Cube

Summary

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Podcast Summary: SEC vs Big Ten - Who's Best? | Heather Dinich Talks 20-Team Playoff | Mac & Cube

Podcast: McElroy and Cubelic in the Morning (Jox-FM | Cumulus Media Birmingham)
Date: August 11, 2026
Special Guest: Heather Dinich (ESPN)
Main Hosts: Greg McElroy, Cole Cubelic
Key Topics: College Football Playoff Expansion, SEC vs Big Ten Conference Comparison, Program Philosophy—Ceiling vs Consistency

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth discussion of the potential expansion of the College Football Playoff (CFP) system, including newly reported conversations about a possible 20-team postseason. The central theme explores both logistics and implications of CFP changes, particularly from the perspective of college football powerhouses in the SEC and Big Ten. ESPN's Heather Dinich provides exclusive insight into the decision-making process and controversies. Following Dinich’s segment, the hosts pivot to a passionate and analytical comparison of the SEC and Big Ten—debating depth, stability, and elite potential—while also addressing program philosophies (consistent winning vs. championship ceiling) using recent team histories.

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Key Segment Summaries & Timestamps

1. Inside the 20-Team Playoff Conversation

[00:45 – 12:07]

Guest: Heather Dinich (ESPN)

• Origin of the 20-Team Playoff Idea

  • Heather shares the backstory:

    “This is something that I heard a couple weeks ago ... It came from multiple well-placed sources in the CFP conversation. But when it was discussed, it was more to shut the door on it than really explore it.”
    — Heather Dinich [01:20]

  • The plan proposed: Keep 12 teams as is; invite 8 more (total 20); the additional 8 would play in 'play-in' games, potentially hosted by each Power Four conference as a replacement for lost conference championship games.
  • Most stakeholders had little appetite for the 20-team model, especially for the play-in game concept.

• Why Even Discuss 20 or 24 Teams?

  • Main issues are about “access, access, access” as pressure mounts due to SEC schedule difficulties and job security among coaches.

    “There is a universal agreement amongst all CFP leaders that more access is better given how difficult the schedule has gotten in the SEC.”
    — Heather Dinich [05:02]

• Revenue Concerns & Calendar Logistics

  • SEC’s biggest concern: replacing $80–100M per conference from lost championship games.
  • No guaranteed revenue stream yet for a 24-team format.
  • Logistical challenges around academic and recruiting calendars.

  • “There are also concerns that Sankey [SEC Commissioner] has said publicly about the possibility of devaluing the regular season ... If you go all the way down to 24 teams ... a four-loss Iowa, a five-loss Mississippi State—it's kind of like, what are we doing here?”
    — Heather Dinich [05:57]

• Is College Football Like Other Sports?

  • Big Ten's Tony Petitti (former MLB exec) pushes for access, comparing to pro sports.
  • Dinich notes vital differences:

    “Everyone wants to compare it, but it’s ... so different because of the money, … free agency, the rules.”
    — Heather Dinich [07:45]

• What’s Next in the CFP Expansion Process?

  • Another meeting likely before the annual September summit; deadline is Dec. 1 for playoff format decisions.

  • “They are on the clock ... They’re talking about unwinding conference championship game TV contracts, trying to figure out when and where to play these games in the calendar.”
    — Heather Dinich [10:11]

Memorable Quotes

• “Access, access, access. That’s always the answer.”
  — Heather Dinich [05:02]
• On the drawbacks:
  “If you’re looking at a four-loss Iowa, a five-loss Mississippi State—it’s kind of like, what are we doing here?”
  — Heather Dinich [05:57]
• On NFL/MLB comparisons:
  “College football is different than all those sports. … Everyone wants to compare it, but it’s not the same.”
  — Heather Dinich [07:45]
• On the urgency for change:
  “The clock is ticking. They have to decide by December 1 if the playoff’s going to change.”
  — Heather Dinich [10:11]

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2. SEC vs Big Ten: Who’s the Top Conference Now?

[13:06 – 38:57]

Call-In and Debate: SEC Best?

• Fan Callers: Assert SEC’s dominance regardless of format (“the best conference is the SEC ... always” [13:06]).
• Hosts’ Counterpoint:
  • SEC unquestionably dominated for a decade, but landscape is shifting. Recent years show the Big Ten closing the gap at the top and, in some areas, surpassing.

Key Discussion Points

• Depth vs. Elite Talent

  • SEC’s historical depth and top-end talent cited, but Big Ten’s “top three” (Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon) might have been stronger than SEC’s best last year [19:25–19:54].

• Middle-Tier Parity or Cannibalization?

  • SEC’s “middle” teams (Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Auburn) may be solid but can easily end up as 6–7 win teams that cannibalize each other, muddying national perceptions.

    “If the middle of the SEC cannibalizes itself and only Georgia, only Texas, or only Georgia, Texas, Ole Miss truly separate, it’s going to be hard to have this argument nationally.”
    — Cole [19:54]

  • Big Ten’s mid-tier (Maryland, Rutgers, Minnesota, Penn State, Iowa) seen as having slightly lower ceilings but higher floors.

• Bottom-of-the-League Comparison

  • Hosts push back on the old SEC mantra “every team can get every team any week.” Historical records show some SEC teams (Arkansas, Vandy, Mississippi State) have repeatedly struggled.

Returning Host: Greg McElroy’s Take

[26:07 – 38:14]

• Top End Analysis [27:45]:

  “At the top, they (Big Ten) were significantly stronger. Their top three teams had a much higher ceiling than any SEC team last year. But [the SEC] is deeper in the middle.”

• On Predictable Consistency:

  “The Big Ten’s strength is stability. … High floor, low ceiling. The SEC has more pros and thus a higher ceiling. A team like Auburn with Cam Newton can transcend expectations. That’s why there’s more parity in the league.”
  — Greg McElroy [33:02–35:41]

• Stability or Ceiling? Program Philosophy

  • Debate on whether a program/fanbase would prefer:
    • Consistent 6–9 win seasons (e.g., Kentucky, Missouri) or
    • Occasional championship runs with down years (e.g., Auburn, Florida).
  • Notable comparison: Last 10 years—Auburn and Kentucky have identical records (68–58), but Kentucky has more 10-win seasons ([41:06–41:47]).

    “Based on expectations, I’d rather be Kentucky. They’ve overachieved; Auburn’s underachieved.”
    — Greg McElroy [43:19]

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3. Trivia and Data: “Would You Rather Be...?”

[39:12 – 47:14]

• Auburn vs. Kentucky (Past 10 Years):
  • Both teams: 68–58; Kentucky has more ten-win seasons.
• Missouri vs. Florida (Past 10 Years):
  • Each has two ten-win seasons; Florida edges Missouri in total wins, but the margin is close.
• Vanderbilt vs. Arkansas: Similar, both with subpar records.

“If you ask fans over the last decade who’s been dealing with more disappointment, it’d be Auburn by a mile.” — Greg McElroy [43:44]

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Notable Quotes

• Heather Dinich:
  “Access, access, access—that’s always the answer when asking why move beyond 12 teams.” [05:02]
• Cole Cubelic:
  “If the middle of the SEC cannibalizes itself ... it’s going to be hard to have this argument nationally.” [19:54]
• Greg McElroy:
  “Their (Big Ten’s) top three teams have a much higher ceiling than the best team in the SEC.” [28:48]
  “The Big Ten’s strength is stability—a crazy high floor. The SEC’s advantage is more pros and a higher ceiling.” [33:01]
• On program fanbases:
  “Would you rather have one championship run and five disappointing years, or 10 straight years of being steady?” [37:29]

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Episode Takeaways

• CFP expansion to 20 (or even 24) is a real discussion, but faces major hurdles in revenue replacement and cultural fit.
• SEC’s middle depth is excellent, but Big Ten’s current top tier may surpass it in terms of championship contenders.
• The age-old question—do fans prefer stability or sporadic greatness?—remains alive and well, as illustrated by historic team data.
• Both leagues are evolving, and the line between them is thinner than ever; national title “trump card” remains critical in winning arguments.
• College football’s uniqueness—structurally and culturally—means playoff expansion debates are more complex than merely citing pro sports precedents.

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For college football diehards, this episode offers a nuanced, numbers-rich, and candid discussion of where the SEC and Big Ten stand—and why the future of the sport remains uncertain and fiercely debated at every level.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Everywhere.

[C]

That's Millennium

[B]

McElroy in Kubelik in the morning starts now. We'll come back to some of our College Football Playoff discussion. I do think we need to revisit some of the things that were brought up by our callers a few moments ago. But it's 8am Tuesday, August 11, right here on Jocks. We're going to bring Heather Dennis of ESPN into the show. She joins us now on the Hagenbotham Hotline to discuss this potential 20 team playoff. How real was it? What was the actual discussion? Heather, can you give us some details as to how this even came into the picture to be discussed yesterday?

[D]

Sure. I'll take you behind the scenes a little bit just on the reporting of it. I mean, this is something that I heard about a couple of weeks ago and, and it bubbled up from a source who's familiar with the conversations. And I reached out to a second source because that's how I operate. I need more than one person before I report anything. And the second source shut it down. So I was like, all right, I'm not going to touch this right now. And then yesterday morning, just checking in with some people about the meeting, someone else said it and I was like, all right, this is more than one person. This is over the span of a couple of weeks. There's some validity to this. And then I called the third person and confirmed it. That's when I put it out for the world through ESPN alerts and on Twitter and everything. But they talked about it, but they were very quick to say we're not going to, we're not analyzing this right now. So the reality is it went nowhere fast. But there are some people who support it as a compromise because, you know, you would have the 12 teams basically like you have right now, 12 team playoffs and then you have eight more teams. That's how you get your 20. And then those eight teams would play in, play in games. And the idea there is each Power four conference would host one of those playing games to help compensate for the loss of a conference championship game. But in the room, there wasn't a lot of support yesterday for even the idea of playing games. So, you know, they. Did they talk about it? Yes, they did. But probably more to shut the door on it than to explore it at least right this second.

[B]

Did you have any details on if the conversation with that 20 team playoff would have gone further, what it would have looked like as far as qualification, who's in, who's out, how that happens, etc.

[D]

No, and that's the thing is they haven't even done a deep dive necessary to make a decision on 24. So there were some people who scoffed at the idea of why are we even bringing this up when we haven't gotten enough information to make a decision on a 24 team playoff. And so yesterday, and it was a video conference, it was a zoom yesterday, most of the time that wasn't, you know, business related as far as the CFP goes, was spent talking about what a 24 team field would look like with a calendar, with the recruiting calendar, with the academic calendar if you get rid of conference championship games. And there was a presentation from industry leaders to try and give them an idea of what revenue would look like if you lose over $200 million in conference championship games. And my understanding was that, that there wasn't. There's not a guarantee right now that says, okay, if you do this, you're going to make that. So the door is still open on 24. And that's where everyone is leaning right now outside of the SEC collectively. But you know, you heard Greg Sankey say this multiple occasions. He's not opposed to 24. He just wants all the information before making that decision.

[B]

Heather, we had this conversation a little bit earlier on our show discussing 20 and then it led into this. And 24 obviously is going to be a part of the conversation. Heather Dennis of ESPN joining us on the Higginbotham hotline. When you talk to people who are in these meetings, when you talk to people who, whether it's Tony Petiti, anybody else that's pushing for something different, what are the real issues with 12 that people come up with? Because I don't find a lot of people that tell you what's wrong with

[D]

12 right now, that's a fair question. And the answer every time is access, access, access, access. And you know where you are based out of right now. How many coaches in the SEC got fired? Right? And There's a lot of people in the SEC saying, look, why did we go to nine games if we're not going to expand the playoff? Not a lot of people. Every single coach in the February coaches meeting was like, wait a minute, they were pissed off. Why did we do this and not do that? So how many is the right number? Is it 16? Is it 24? That's yet to be determined. But I think there is a universal agreement amongst all CFP leaders that more access is better given how difficult the schedule has gotten in the sec.

[B]

Heather Dennis joining us on the Higginbotham hotline. What, what are the hold ups around the details of 24 for the SEC?

[D]

I would say the biggest thing is revenue. I mean, when you're looking at a conference championship game that generates between 80 to 100 million dollars according to sources, you have to have some sort of guarantee that you're going to be able to make up for that. And there's also concerns that Sankey has said publicly about the possibility of devaluing the regular season. And you know, all your listeners know how special college football is because every game truly does matter. Every single one. You're going to hear me talking about the playoff from the LSU game and the season opener against Clemson because that game is going to matter on selection day. And so there are concerns that if you go all the way down to 24 teams and you're looking at a four loss Iowa, five loss Mississippi State, it's kind of like, what are we doing here? And the answer to that is we are giving everyone a chance according to the Big Ten side of it is you look at the NFL and not in every NFL team that's in the playoffs has a winning record even, you know, so there's a lot of comparisons. Particularly and Tony Petita, he's talked about Major League Baseball, given his background about access and fairness and just a chance, a reward at the end of the season.

[B]

That feels like one of the things that I feel like a lot of fans have gotten on board. I don't know if it's the exact conversation from an access standpoint behind the scenes with administrators, but we keep hearing about these percentages of teams and leagues that make the postseason and how low that is for college football. Is that sort of one of the things they're leaning on?

[D]

Yeah, but the other thing too is that the flip side, the counter counter to that is college football is different than all of those sports.

[B]

Right?

[D]

It always has been. And you know, my job is to see both sides of it. And I truly do. I get it. But when you look at college football, there aren't the disparity that leaders in college athletics has created through nil. Through the salary cap. You know, a salary cap. I say salary cap, but it is not like the NFL. Everyone wants to compare it, but it's. They're so different because of the money, because of free agency, because of the rules. Right. So you make it wider. You can, but the reality is you're going to have schools with less financial resources, which means. And you know, this less depth on the offensive and defensive lines. By the time you get to late January, those are the teams that can win the national title. The ones that have an arch manning on their bitch. You know, like, who's your backup? What are you going to do when Dante Moore goes down and it's January 23rd, you know, so there are a whole lot of issues that make this conversation different from the NFL.

[B]

Well, it's like I've said, and I use this the last couple of days when this has come up, how many people, U.S. college football fans, are walking around saying, you know what, if we could just be more like the NBA or if we could just be more like the NHL, I would. I would really get more into college football. I just. I don't think anybody's saying that or thinking that. I just don't think it's a real part of the conversation.

[D]

No. And it is so different. But everyone will tell you, and this is why there's been that whole jumble about federal legislation is they do need some more rules. But it's interesting because on the flip side, you do have more parity. I mean, look at Indiana. Indiana is the greatest example of how it can work for a school that's out there right now. And when I say how it can work, I mean the salary to pay your coaches, bring in a signetti to keep him there, to hire the assistants to bring in the transfers that can repeat as a national title contender. So, you know, it depends on where your seat is at the table. Is it working for me now? Oh, I'm all for it. Is it not? Oh, things have to change. That's life.

[B]

Okay, so Heather Dennis of ESPN with us on the Higginbotham Hotline, what's next in these College Football Playoff conversations?

[D]

I would be surprised if they don't have another meeting between now and the scheduled September meeting. They meet every September in Chicago at Big Ten headquarters, and I think they'll have a video conference again between now and then. To talk more about 24. But the clock is ticking. They have to decide by Dec. 1 if the playoff's going to change and if it's not, that's okay. Like it can stay at 12. And that's a very real scenario if they can't figure this out. I mean, and they're talking about unwinding conference championship game TV contracts and trying to figure out when and where to play these games in the calendar. So they are on the clock.

[B]

Was there a conversation with 20 when it even came up that the conference championship games would essentially turn into some sort of playoff games, but ownership would stay within the leagues there and they could manage them however they wanted?

[D]

Yes, that's the. That's the theory behind that, at least that I've heard from multiple sources. That's the pitch is the A4 Power 4 conferences would be guaranteed to host those playing games instead of the conference championship games. But that was something that there just wasn't a lot of interest in, in the room and got shut down real quickly as far as playing games, which to me is kind of interesting because, I mean, like, I. It's all blurred together now. But there was a point, I can't remember when, when the Big Ten was interested in playing games and they were interested in automatic qualifiers at one point, too. And these conversations are so fluid. They're so fluid.

[B]

Heather, thank you so much for the insight, the information. We appreciate it and look forward to having you back again soon.

[D]

Sounds good. Let's get these games started, man, so we can start talking about football.

[B]

Exactly. We're going to try to do that today. Thank you so much.

[D]

You bet. Thanks.

[B]

Heather Dennis of espn joining us on the Higginbotham hotline. Some updates around those conversations that took place yesterday from college football administrators on the future of the College Football Playoff. Where does it go next? Nobody really knows. Nobody knows exactly what that's going to look like. Obviously, I don't think we're going to be looking at anything in the next few days. It's going to be a massive shift, a massive change. And that includes the heat. Alabama heat and humidity can be brutal. Don't let it affect your home and family. Keep them comfortable with an affordable Trane cooling system. Recognize as America's Most trusted brand 12 consecutive years. You can rely on a train. Find a comfort specialist near [e-mail] I will continue this conversation back to a couple of things that you guys brought up and more. You know what? First, Tiny has been patient on hold, wanted to talk 12 team, college football Playoff. Let's let Tiny in on the Higginbotham hotline. Tiny, what's on your mind this morning?

[D]

How you doing, Cole? How are you this morning?

[B]

I'm great, thank you very much.

[D]

I was just letting everybody know, man, that if it's 12 teams of his 16 teams, the best conference is the SEC.

[B]

And when you get in the playoffs,

[D]

the SEC beat them, beat up each other so much that you really don't have a competition because every SEC team is beat up, man, and the Big Ten don't play as hard as the SEC does. So how do you go far, far saying that? I always gonna say the SEC is gonna always be the best conference.

[B]

I think we all here in this part of the country believe that, but sometimes I don't know if the actual football allows that to be true. Let's discuss it. Let's weigh them. Let's weigh them. We'll do this. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to weigh the Big Ten in the SEC. Next on Jocks.

[A]

Don't leave Jocks back at the house. Download the Jocks 945 app and take us anywhere in the car, at work or at the game. Live audio, video and podcasts on your schedule. The Jocks945 app, wherever you may be.

[B]

All right, welcome back in McElroy and Kubelik in the morning. Appreciate you guys tuning in. 8:17, Tuesday, August 11th right here on Jocks McElroy going to be hopping back in here in a few moments. Had first day of school, so he had some things that he had to take care of. And we'll continue talking SEC versus Big Ten. We had a couple of callers earlier just call in, say, hey, listen, you can't do that because the SEC every year is going to be better. I don't know if that's where we are right this second. Do I think we were there for a decade plus? Yeah, I do. But I don't know if I can just look at the mindset that was introduced to the show a little bit earlier of every team can get every team every week. Y' all watch some of these Arkansas teams the last few years. I don't know how dangerous I label as Auburn last year, two years ago. I mean, defense kept him in some games, but offensively they just weren't even capable. Here's the thing that bothers me about Indiana. You could talk about the age, you could talk about other people being banged up when they play them, but they played team football. They operated as a team, they executed as a team. That's what put him ahead of everybody else. That's what made him so different. It wasn't overly reliant on one wide receiver. It wasn't overly reliant on one running back, making people miss, running people over. It wasn't just a good, slash, dominant offensive line. You had a group of tight ends that helped. You had running backs that understood where to hit, how to hit, where to go, when to cut, when to get north and south. And then you had receivers on same page with their quarterback that knew when to get in and out of breaks, make tough catches. A defense that when they ran a stunt, when they ran a twist, when they ran a pressure in an unselfish nature in how they executed, how to get things done. And it's frustrating to hear that just, oh, they were old or, oh, other teams were dinged up and banged up the top of the SEC last year. How many teams did we really view at the end of the season could somehow, some way, put it together and go win a national championship? Maybe we should be doing that going into this year more so than last year. Like Oklahoma got into the playoffs. Do we think they could win a national title? Do we think Alabama could win a national title last year? I did not.

[E]

No.

[B]

Got in the playoffs, won a playoff game is great with that offensive line. How do you guys think it would have looked if Alabama played Miami last

[E]

year

[C]

slightly better than Indiana?

[B]

Really?

[C]

Slightly. They just scored a touchdown.

[E]

I think.

[B]

That was a group of killers. Miami had a defense last year. Could Georgia have won a national title last year? I think so. I think they potentially could have put things together now. They have not performed well in the playoff the last two years. I get that. Ole Miss. Yes. Look what they did. Okay. Do we think A and M, realistically, going into the playoff last year, do we think they could have won a national title? I think people know where I stand. And the answer to that would have been no. I may have given Texas a better chance than Texas A and M. They didn't even get in. So we're looking at two as of now. Georgia, Ole Miss. Okay. How many Big Ten teams do we think going into the College Football Playoff last year could have won a national title? Because I'd have said three. Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon. What about going into this year? How many will we take this year? If we looked at just. And this is obviously a massive project projection, we don't know exactly what these teams are going to look like what they're going to be. We think Ohio State can win a national title this year. I think just about everybody's going to be on board. Indiana, I think just about everybody's going to be on board. Oregon, I think just everybody's going to be on board. Penn State not there yet. Washington not quite at that point just yet. I love Minnesota, but not to win a national title. Michigan, not national title yet. Iowa not national championship? No. USC is your team right there where you need to look at and say, maybe I still have some things that need to be proven from that program and how they operate. But you got, you got three, maybe four.

[E]

All right.

[B]

In the sec, we know we got Georgia, we know we got Texas potential to win a national title. Who else? LSU is not there. Don't bring that. Oklahoma, probably. And then it's fun. A and M there, Bama there,

[E]

because

[B]

I put Ole Miss there. I think they should be there at

[C]

least in the discussion.

[B]

So at the top right now we could maybe argue the SEC is better. And I do think the middle of the SEC will be better this year. I do. That's where this year maybe the SEC could separate. But here's going to be our problem. Here's going to be our issue. And this is where I was asked this question yesterday and we had a long conversation about it. We've talked about the middle of this league this year. Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Auburn. Those teams that could extend and be better than we think or maybe fall backwards just a little bit. Or what if they're all just pretty good teams? What if Florida's not elite, but they're. They're good, they're strong, solid. What if Auburn. Strong, solid, but not elite. What if Mississippi State is really scary but not elite? What if South Carolina is just super dangerous, but a couple parts of that team don't really come together, but they don't look national championship worthy. But you watch them and say, man, I don't want to play them. What if A. What if A and M falls of that category? What if Missouri, Austin Simmons works and they're sort of in that category? LSU doesn't quite get there yet. They're in that category. We're going to have a bunch of 6 and 7 win football teams and that's where it's going to be hard to have this argument. If the middle of the SEC cannibalizes itself and only Georgia, only Texas or only Georgia, Texas, Ole Miss or only Texas, Oklahoma, Ole Miss truly separate, it's going to be hard to have this argument nationally. We'll continue the discussion, talk more about this. Be back in just a moment. Right here on Jocks.

[A]

Keys, check. Seat belt. Check. Jocks 94.5 on your presets. Locked in. Your ride's not ready till jocks is on. Jocks 94. 5, your daily drive. Done. Right. 2, turn it on, lock it in.

[B]

Last year, I don't think you could say it. We've had some callers say every year it's the sec. It's not close. Every team can get every team. I'm not sure what some of y' all have been watching. I understand the venues are difficult. I understand the draftable players have been there. But there are some teams how they manage themselves the last few years. I mean, guys, Arkansas didn't win an SEC game last year. They're 2 and 10 in the league. I can't, I can't sit there and say that that team could get anybody any week. I know Taylor Green was great, but no, not going to, not going to be on board with that. 205-834-9450. You can text in the show. Call into the show. 205-834-9440. Tweet in at Mac and Cube. Mississippi State was 2 and 10 two years ago. Kentucky 4, 8. They want to combine three SEC games. I mean, Auburn won two SEC games two years ago. I mean we don't have to go too far back. Vanderbilt, we know them being the doormat of the league. What that looked like, what that was, how bad that was, don't think they're going back to that. By the way, one of the things that could help this discussion become a little bit easier for people nationally if the SEC does bounce back this year and ultimately to winning the national championship is going to be the trump card. That's going to be the one that people look at and say, well, you don't have this, you don't have that. But if you're going to tell me just blind taste test, do you think it's as easy as 2 +2 that the SEC was better than the Big Ten last year? I'm not sure I can be on board with that. Damian, would you.

[E]

Do. I think if all, I mean it's tough to say. I think that if you put some teams at the bottom of the Big Ten in the sec, they'd still stay at the bottom. But I don't feel as though if there were a few, very few teams at the bottom of the SEC if they Got into the Big Ten, that wouldn't be competitive. Like, I think if you put,

[B]

I

[E]

think if you put UCLA in the sec, they'd still be at the bottom of the pack.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

I think if you flipped. I mean, I'm just. Arkansas. Arkansas is kind of that litmus test because they were competitive in a lot in a few more games than I thought. But again, if that defense translates to the Big Ten, they're not going to have a chance.

[B]

Let's go back three years ago. Arkansas 1 and 7 in the league. Mississippi State 1 and 7 in the league. Vanderbilt was.08 in the league. Florida won three games in the league. South Carolina won three games in the league. Kentucky won three games in the league. Auburn won three games in the league.

[E]

It's. It's tough. It's tough because again, my perception of the sec, I, I think I, I get a little bit of the argument. It's. There's no off weeks. But I'm sure there you can point at some games more times than not that the bottom, the separation between 16 and 10 is a matter of two to three games.

[B]

Fair. It's totally fair.

[E]

I just think the gap, the gap is, and we talked about this at a few times with Greg, it's the margins are slimmer in the SEC as opposed to the Big Ten like, like Purdue, for example. Like everybody likes to hang their hat that Purdue, that 2018 team, they beat Ohio State, they haven't come close since. Whereas I can look at Texas A and M and Arkansas for the past five, six years, that game has been competitive, even though Arkansas for more times than not has been the worst team in that situation. I just think the margins in the SEC are slimmer than they are in the, in the Big Ten.

[B]

All right, let's go to gmac, who hops on the show now. First day of school for the kids. How did that, how was drop off? How did it go today?

[C]

Getting annually less and less emotional for, for the moms involved in the drop off. Have you noticed that over the course of time, maybe it's a little different with, with Kit going to middle school. And I know it hasn't happened for y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

I think it happens tomorrow. Kid going to middle school, among other things. Like, I feel like we've seen a progressive downslope of emotions.

[B]

Oh, no, it's gonna be. And the kids are going to be more and more of just. All right, I'm good. As soon as they walk in, just. I got it.

[C]

I'm talking more the parents.

[B]

It'll depend on last kid and then what grade and last year's of elementary school, things of that nature. It'll alter just a little bit. It'll vary some, but yes, it definitely gets a little bit less emotional. We've been talking. We had a conversation about the College Football Playoff. We had a conversation about getting into the playoff, which rolled us into access to the playoff, and a discussion there. And we had a couple callers just call in and say, listen, the SEC is better than the Big Ten every year. Every team could sneak up and get you every year. Therefore, it makes it more difficult. And I'm kind of like, I don't, I don't know if that's how I see it right now. First off, how did you see these two leagues at the end of the season last year? If you put them side by side, where would you lean as to better conference going into the playoffs? Maybe at the end of the playoffs last year? SEC versus Big Ten.

[C]

I think the SEC was deeper in the middle last year for sure. I think at the top, obviously, with what Indiana did, how Ohio State played at times. I mean, you can make the case those are the two best teams in college football last year. And I know people will say, well, Ohio State lost them. I, I don't disagree with that. But if we're gauging quality, I want to do so over the course of 14 games. I understand, like, who peaks at the end, who's playing the best ball in the final three or four games is great. I put tremendous stock in that. But also, like, over the course of time, like, tell me two teams. I tell you, all right, you can't have Indiana to win a game last year. Who you take and besides Indiana to win one game

[B]

last year.

[C]

Yeah,

[B]

I would have probably leaned Oregon

[C]

last year over Ohio State.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Well, depends on what, what portion of the season, too. If you're talking. If it was week four, it would have been Ohio State. It's week nine, it would have been Oregon.

[C]

Yeah, it's still, still Big Ten, though. I mean, point taken. Whether it's Oregon or Ohio State, it's one in the same. At the top, they were significantly stronger. There's no denying their ceiling. And their top three teams was much higher than that of the ceiling of the best SEC team. There's no denying that. But you look at the middle of the sec, include Alabama, include Oklahoma, include. Oh, include Texas, include, you know, some other teams. You know, if you want to include Vandy, you want to include Tennessee. I understand those teams lost to Big Ten teams or whatnot in the the bowl games. All that's fair. I think I forget even who Vandy played in the bowl games. Beside the point. Not important. What's most important though is assessing the depth. Last year leaned SEC heavily. I would actually push back on that a bit this season. Now I think the middle of the SEC is still very good. I think it's probably slightly superior teams say, I don't know, four through eight in the sec. Probably a little better than that of teams four through eight in the Big Ten. But I think the Big Ten collectively this year from 4 to 8 has taken a pretty considerable step forward to make that an actual conversation. The advancement expected from sc, the stability expected from an Iowa, the advancement expected from Michigan in time, whether it's this year or next, like they're taking a step for sure. I think Washington's got a chance to be a very good football team this year. I'm a big believer in them. Like you kind of look at it and I don't know if you disagree. I feel like the middle of the Big Ten teams, say four through eight, the middle upper tier of the Big Ten have collectively grown whereas the SEC has kind of stayed the same, which makes the Big Ten have a better argument to be a better league this season. Do you see it that way?

[B]

I see it in somewhat of a similar fashion. I think kind of that that tier two, you could make a better argument about the Big Ten. I just, I look at the middle of the SEC as being large and my fear is that it's going to cannibalize itself. And then therefore we get to the end of the season. You got a lot of six and seven win teams, but when you and I watch them, we look at them and say, man, they're dangerous. They wouldn't want to play that team right now. You better bring your A game when you play that team. I think the Big Ten could have that could have more of those. I think Maryland has a chance to be better than people think, but I don't think they're going to be national championship contenders. I think Rutgers offense can be better than people think. I think Penn State's going to be super solid, but playoff run, make a run. I think Minnesota is going to be a really good football team, but making a run in the playoffs, I don't really see that for them. Michigan a wild card that could end up being really good. I think. I guess the way that I put it is I agree with your sentiment, but I would look at Some of the SEC teams that we put in that same category and say their ceiling is a little bit higher because I'm a little bit lower on LSU than a lot of people right now, but I think their ceiling's pretty high. Florida, I will put them in that category of Big Ten teams we just talked about, but I'd say they have a higher ceiling. South Carolina would be the same. I would put them with the Marylands, the Penn States, the Minnesotas, but I think their ceiling is higher than those teams. They have a chance to read something that maybe those Big Ten teams do not that we just discussed. So I think they're really close right now. If you went teams that could possibly win a national title, I think it's three to three, four to four, three to four, it could go multiple ways. It's going to be really close. And then after that is where it becomes very intriguing. And the ceiling, what is the ceiling of some of those teams? Is it one playoff win? Is it knocking on door of playoff? I think that's where the SEC has a little bit of an advantage. But then maybe bull eligible teams after those that might belong to the Big Ten just because the ceiling for some of those SEC teams are going to be just a little bit higher.

[C]

Yeah. And I can get on board with that. Like I think and the reason why the SEC team ceiling is higher is because they have more pros.

[B]

Like they.

[C]

It's no dis. It's not that dissimilar to watching Kentucky for example in March Madness for many years under John Cal Peri like, okay, yeah, they'd have some really inconsistent performance throughout the regular season, but come tournament time, man, it's a tough team to bet against because those dudes, on any one given day they could just rise up and just blow you out because they got three dudes that'll be playing in the NBA. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of where the SEC is like where the Big Ten strength is in stability a la Iowa. Like Iowa is steady, consistent. Their floor is crazy high. But their ceilings capped. Like same thing can be said for Minnesota. Very high floor, very low ceiling. The same can be said for potentially Illinois. Their win loss total is probably going to be dependent on who they play in the league. Like that's. They can't necessarily elevate beyond. Whereas I think a team like Auburn behind a guy like Cam Newton, granted a unique once in a lifetime type of player, but they can, he can elevate and, and go beyond and, and push a program beyond what's probably expected from a 1 through 105 personnel standpoint. Like, if you have that transcendent guy, your ceiling is just going to be next level. That's why I think people still remain very bullish on South Carolina.

[B]

I do.

[C]

I think Lenoris can fit in this offense. You have a couple takeover guys on defense. You have a great defensive coordinator. Like, they can beat anyone in the league on any given Saturday. That's why a 4 and 8 Florida last year beat arguably the most talented roster in the SEC in Texas, and beat them convincingly, I might add. Like, that's the difference. Whereas in the Big Ten, the only way Ohio State's losing to Maryland is if Ohio State goes in and turns the ball over four times. That's the only way that's happening.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Whereas if you just go toe to toe, South Carolina on their best day could knock off Georgia, could knock off Texas. And I think there's more parity in the league as a result of that. So interpret it however you want. I agree with you. The ceiling's higher. But in the modern era, answer me this. Do you want a higher ceiling or do you want stability? And I think many people would take stability. But in the sec, we want the higher ceiling because we ultimately are going to be defined by championships. And if you don't win championships, you're not any good. But I don't know, like the S. The Big Ten just has a slightly different approach to that. And that's why I think their team is a little more predictable.

[B]

Yeah. And I think too, you look at that stability, think about teams in the SEC over time, maybe not even the last two years, but that we have seen in our lifetimes that have been in that six to nine win range for six, seven, eight years. And all of a sudden fans are like, we got to get over the hump.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they have the one down year. Oh, we got to run him. We got to get him out of here. You had stability for seven years. I think Mark Stoop's a great example of this. I, I don't disagree that it was time, but those conversations were also happening two and three years ago. And you're like, wait a minute, like, you've been one of the more stable programs in the sec. That doesn't mean you're competing for national titles. And that's not enough. So I wonder if that's part of it too, Greg, where stability is great, but I actually think some fans would rather have super high ceiling. Like, would you rather be Auburn or Kentucky in football the last 10 years?

[C]

Kentucky.

[B]

I think some people would say Auburn because they want the potential.

[E]

That is. Wow.

[B]

But I know what, I know what Greg's saying though. I know what Greg's saying. Like Greg, it's a good point that you sit there and you say, well, because 17 will be included in that. Right.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Kentucky never. Yes. In the last 10 years. Never got to what Auburn did in 17.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Beat two number ones in back to back weeks. Got to the SEC championship game. Like that didn't happen. I haven't been for Kentucky.

[C]

Part of it has to do with expectations too though. So like I feel like Kentucky has significantly overachieved in the last 10 years.

[B]

Totally fair.

[C]

Whereas I think Auburn has underachieved in the last 10 years. So a little bit is programmed. But if we're removing name and face, would you rather have the one championship run in five disappointing years or 10 straight years of rock solid or steady?

[B]

Like.

[C]

I, I don't know. I, I think it depends on the program.

[B]

Tennessee or Texas A and m? The last 10 years,

[C]

A and M

[B]

both been to a playoff game. Both big wins against Alabama.

[C]

It's a really good one. That's a, that's a perfect, that's a great one.

[B]

Tennessee probably has more wins against their rival which.

[C]

But they just had so many, they had so many disappointing years. Like it's, it's easy.

[B]

But that's your point, Greg. I feel like A and M, even though they fired a coach, has been more stable.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Like you. Tennessee's been all over the place. But they got some big wins in there and some good season for sure.

[C]

It's true.

[B]

So that's a fun conversation. I'll see if I can contrast any others. We'll take a look at it, discuss it more on the other side. You have to wait for that conversation, Greg. One thing you never have to wait for is your dental care.

[C]

That's because Family Care Dental has you taken care of. They're the urgent care office. You'll be seen the same day. Several locations to make it easy on you. Hoover, Fultondale, Homewood, Alabaster and Trustful. They can get you in for emergencies. They can also do routine appointments that now include free teeth whitening. And they can see you on Fridays and Saturdays. So call them the day for an appointment. 874-9605. That's Family Care Dental. 874-9605.

[B]

All right, we'll take this conversation to the next side teams. Maybe you'd rather be over the last 10 years. Next on Jocks.

[A]

Jocks 94. 5 is live on YouTube every weekday plus video shorts and podcasts. Find us at jocks945 and smash the subscribe and like buttons so you never miss a moment. Jocks94.5 on YouTube.

[B]

All right, welcome back in Macaron Kubrick in the Morning 8:47 Tuesday, August 11th right here on Jocks. You can tweet into the show ackincube text or call into the show. 205-834-94450. Weighing the Big Ten versus the SEC. Also comparing contrasting certain SEC teams over the last decade with a great topic that we kind of stumbled upon of would you rather have consistency or ceiling? Which one? We have some numbers on Auburn, Kentucky which will surprise you in just a moment. First, Greg, tell our listeners about Bill Smith Buick gmc.

[C]

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[B]

right, so Damian has some numbers on Auburn and Kentucky the last 10 years. This is fascinating because we just pulled them and said who would you rather be? Greg went Kentucky. And I said I thought it was a perfect contrast of stability versus ceiling. Damian, what did you find?

[E]

Yeah, through the past 10 seasons, both Auburn and Kentucky have the exact same record of 68 and 58.

[B]

That's crazy. That is insane.

[C]

That is amazing.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So in how many head to heads, like I feel like Kentucky bought a one more head to heads.

[B]

Got him in Auburn got him in 20 last year. Auburn got him in 20. Kentucky got him last year

[E]

and then Auburn went up there in 20. Was it 23, 24.

[C]

And be ran it out. Run all over him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. That's crazy though. Same record. Wow.

[E]

Yeah. And Kentucky has two 10 win seasons in the span of those 10 years as opposed to Auburn's one in 2017.

[B]

What if I sat there and told you guys wind horse fingers before the show, Kentucky has more 10 win seasons last 10 years in Auburn. I don't think people would. Y' all wouldn't believe me?

[E]

No.

[B]

No shot goes even further to make this the perfect contrast. I mean it's, it's unbelievable. Yeah, Kentucky got him last year, 24. Auburn 1 in Lexington. And then the last time they played was 20. Auburn won that game. The last time they played before that was 2015. So that was an all not 10 years Auburn win in Lexington. Yeah, that one wouldn't count.

[C]

Love it. That's crazy. But it really. But based on, to me, based on program expectations, it would be Kentucky still. I know the 17 run was magical. It was. It was a great run and, and had a lot of great moments surrounding it. Auburn also had a nice year in 19. Like there were some good years in there for Auburn for sure. But the level of disappointment based on the preseason expectations is very different. Kentucky's happy going to a bowl every year. That's their goal. Let's get to a bowl. Let's win seven, maybe eight. That'd be incredible. And the rare occurrence in which we win 10. Unbelievable. Throw a parade. But Auburn's expectations are to contend at the top of the sport and that hasn't been a reality it in the last seven or eight years. So that's why I would lean Kentucky because it's based on blue blood status and expectations and what the fan base will be satisfied with. And I would think that if you ask Kentucky or Auburn fans over the last decade who's been dealing with more disappointment, it'd be Auburn by a mile.

[B]

What's another one we could sort of put together and have here? This is.

[E]

Yeah, this.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

This kind of.

[B]

I think this one's going to be hard when you hear it. But think closely here for a moment. The last 10 years, would you rather have Missouri or Florida?

[C]

Well, Eli got there in 20. They've been very steady.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Probably Mizzou for the same reasons. Why you would say Florida and Auburn, like Florida, has expectations of contending for championships. They've had some great years, 20 being the best example of that. But how many other times have they been within striking distance of the SEC title? I know they went in 20, but how many times have they been close

[B]

as far as Florida?

[C]

Yeah, I don't think they've made it outside 19.

[B]

19. They were 11 and 2. 18, they were 10 and 3. They actually have the same number of 10 win seasons the last 10 years.

[C]

Wow. Really?

[B]

18 and 19. Florida 1, 10 and 11. And for Missouri, 23, 24. They won 11 and 10. Yeah, that's another one that if we sat there and asked people for the show today, who has more 10 win seasons the last 10 years? Florida, Missouri. None of us would have believed they would both win two.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Missouri has a Cotton bowl win in there. But you had a couple nice years. You know, before Mullen was gone, you went and won the Orange Bowl. He had a nice win in the Peach Bowl. So competitive with Alabama in the SEC Championship game. Not exactly what you want, but still. But you had those dips. Yeah. You know, you had five and seven. You had a six and seven. Yet another six and seven. You had a four and seven. That will be included. And Missouri hasn't had all great years as well. You know, on the front end of Eli coming, you had. You had a 7 and 6. You had a 6 and 5. 5 and 6. 6 and 7. 6 and 7. I'd be interested for Damien to do the math on total WINS the last 10 years for each. I think it'd be really close, by the way.

[C]

It probably is close. I've got that.

[B]

For which teams for Missouri and Florida.

[C]

Missouri, I believe is 66 and 58 and Florida 74. 52. So Florida's had by what, four games?

[B]

Yeah. Or so.

[C]

Yeah, six.

[E]

Close.

[C]

Based on expectations. Based on expectations. I would say Florida has probably had more disappointing moments. And maybe it's recency bias too. Like there's a little recency 100% there. We're being completely honest. I mean, there and there also feels like with Florida having Anthony Richardson, like a few other guys, like they had some dudes in the last handful of years and just couldn't quite capitalize. So that would probably be a little disappointing as well.

[B]

I would love to. I'm trying to think who we could put up against lsu, but they have a national title, so that's still going to be included in an undefeated season. So that's going to trump a lot of different things. So you almost can't really include them. Who. So who would be? I think with what happened last year, In Ole Miss. That takes them out of the equation with a lot of other teams as well, for sure.

[E]

Vanderbilt and Arkansas.

[C]

I think it's too hard. Vanderbilt, if you have a team that has surged that much in the last two or three years, you're naturally going to feel better because of what they have going into this year. I think that you almost have to remove recency from the overall evaluation because frankly, I completely forgot about Florida in 19. Did you?

[B]

No, it was. That was the Kyle Pitts cadarius, Tony. That was a pretty good team. I think that was that very good.

[C]

Who's the quarterback? Because Kyle Trask was 20, right?

[B]

I think it was. I think it was also trash that year.

[E]

I think so.

[C]

He was two year starter.

[E]

Arkansas is 47 and 75 the past 10 years. Vanderbilt is 43 and 75.

[B]

Yeah. Trask had 29, 41, 25 touchdowns in 2019. You got a little bit of Felipe Franks in there, the tight end.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Yep. In the NFL is all right. All right. Austin Price gives us an injury update on the Vols Next.

[A]

This is McElroy and Kubelik in the morning. Start your day with the morning jolt of Drake toll anywhere in the country your home for talking sports. The United States hockey team has four teeth left. What is LeBron James legacy? Lionel Messi 906 career goals is stupid. All of it. The Knicks, the Los Angeles Lakers, Aaron Rodgers, Georgia football players. The Dolphins, the Mets. As it happened, when it happened. We'll talk all of it. Westwood One sports talk your home for Drake toll. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Start your day with the morning jolt of Drake toll anywhere in the country your home for talking sports. The United States hockey team has four teeth left. What is LeBron James legacy? Lionel Messi 906 career goals is stupid. All of it. The Knicks, the Los Angeles Lakers, Aaron Rodgers, Georgia football players. The Dolphins, the Mets. As it happened, when it happened. We'll talk all of it. Westwood One sports talk your home for Drake toll Follow and listen on your favorite platform.