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Med Spa CEO
The New Rules of Aesthetic Marketing with Neal Karski of Patient Engine
01:13:15
Ready to increase your ROI on ad investments? In this special replay of a MedSpa CEO Live event, Neal Karski, founder of Patient Engine and Iconic Spa, joins me to dive deep into the new rules of aesthetic marketing in 2024 and 2025. He shares his...
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- [00:00]
A
Why, hello, my beautiful friend. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today you are in for a treat because today's special episode is actually a replay of a recent MedSpa CEO Live interview in which I brought on special guest Neal Karski. Neal is actually the founder of Patient Engine, which is a customer acquisition agency that really specializes in meta ads for med spas and aesthetic practices. And he's also the founder of Iconic Spa. So he's the founder of his own med spa, which he talks about in this interview that he recently opened earlier this year. The inspiration for actually this conversation came about because about a month ago, one of our shared clients, who is a Med Spa Advantage member, had messaged me and said, you know, I've missed a couple of the weekly Med Spa CEO calls, okay? Every single week inside the Med Spa Advantage, we have a weekly call for the CEOs inside of the membership. And this particular client had missed a couple of calls and was unlike her to miss calls. And she said, hey, we recently hired this new company for their meta ads and they had received so many booked appointments in the last 30 days that she was actually playing catch up and just trying to keep up with the volume of the calls that they had booked. And since then, Neil and I have a number of other shared clients as well. And we were having this conversation about what we're seeing when it comes to paid traffic. Not only that, but what we're seeing personally with our clients when it comes to marketing and creating high ticket sales systems within your practice or med spa. And so I invited Neil to come on so that we could really unpack what is currently working in the industry when it comes to paid advertising and also high ticket selling. Because you do not want to invest money in paid ads and not have a backend system to really optimize the revenue, the profits, the average patient visit value, and ultimately your lifetime patient value as well too. And one of the questions I often get asked, and Neil actually speaks really openly and honestly about it during this conversation is how much ad spend should I have? How long should I run my ads for? And all of those questions and really truly, I am somebody who spends. I invest heavily in advertising and last month I actually got a over a 10x ROAS, which ROAS means return on ad spend for my own personal ad campaigns. I love paid advertising. My mindset around paid advertising is that I'm all in on it. And when you're thinking about whether or not you want to invest in paid advertising, Neil unpacks this and we talk about it during this interview as well. I really want you to have a mindset shift. Many of you take an approach of scarcity when you're thinking about your paid advertising. What I mean by that is like what is the minimum amount I can spend in order to get the results that I want? And I understand where you're coming from. You do not want to spend on advertising that isn't going to demonstratively affect your bottom line positively. But what I often find folks do is they will try to just dip their toe in or you look to partner with a that is the cheapest that you can find or you look to say how can I spend the least? And what I found even with my own paid ad campaigns is that my mindset shift is one I'm all in on figuring out ads because if you're a practice or med spa owner that has the capacity and is growing your actual capacity to have more patients or clients coming to your business, paid ads is a great option to actually fill and continuously reliably fill that capacity expansion that you have. The other thing I would say is that it's incredibly important and Neil and I talk about it during this conversation to have a back end plan to make sure that you're optimizing every single new lead that is every single new patient client that you receive from your paid traffic. Without further ado, I am going to let you listen into this incredible conversation where Neil and I deep dive the new rules for aesthetic marketing in 2024 and 2025. Enjoy. Welcome to the MedSpa CEO podcast where I teach you how to grow and scale your med spa or aesthetic practice so that you can have the Inc impact you know you were meant for without overwhelm, stress or feeling like you have to sacrifice your personal life and happiness to do so. It's totally possible for you and your business. Plus simpler than you think. Keep listening to find out how. Welcome welcome welcome everybody. Welcome to the new rules for Aesthetic Marketing. This is a special Med Spa CEO live podcast that I am co conspirating with Neil Karski Patient Engine. We have a great presentation plan for you guys. Conversation. Really we're going to be sharing really truly what we're seeing is really helping our patients right now in 2024 and what we know is going to continue to be help our our clients be successful in 2025. Neal, welcome. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you today. First of all, let me introduce myself and give Neil a chance to introduce himself as well too. So for any of you who don't know me, my name's Heather Terveen. I am host of the Med Spa CEO podcast and also the founder of the Med Spa Advantage program. I have actually been working in the industry since 2006. Originally as an esthetician and laser tech. I worked both in plastic surgeon and medical aesthetic practice style offices. And now I really work with aesthetic practices and med spas and help them to grow through creating unique signature menus and helping them with their marketing and their sales systems with their teams. So Neil and I were introduced through some shared clients. Neil, take a minute to introduce yourself. Tell us about Patient Engine and also Iconic Spa as well too.
- [07:11]
B
Yeah, sounds good. Thanks Heather, for having me. So I am the CEO founder of Patient Engine. We're a meta lead generation and lead conversion and coaching agency in the medical aesthetic space. We specialize in non invasive body sculpting and minimally invasive and non invasive facial aesthetics. We also do some weight loss ads as well. And we've been around for about four and a half years with close to 200 clients here in the US and we'll talk about today what differentiates us and our business model. So I'm not going to get too much into that because it's, it's going to play into our conversation a little bit. But back in December of last year, I started building my own spa because one, I figured I had a blueprint to be able to, to scale that type of an operation beam that I've been running paid acquisition systems and coaching hundreds of people in the last five years. So I figured, hey, if I can't do this, then something is off. So I decided to build my brand. It's called Iconic Spa and I built it in four months and I opened in March of this year. And we, so we've been around for about, I guess seven months and I think we crossed close to 300,000 in revenue already.
- [08:28]
A
Amazing. Congrats.
- [08:29]
B
Thank you. With one room and one provider. So we'll get into that as well during this conversation. But I also wanted to immerse myself in the shoes of an operator. Not only testing my own system that I created, but also understanding how it feels to be a med spa owner and what kind of challenges there are and how can I also serve my clients better.
- [08:51]
A
I love it in the trenches, man. You're in the trenches now. Already in the trenches.
- [08:56]
B
No, I'm not in the trenches though it's nice to be able to like actually run a spa remotely, which is I Think what a lot of it is. You teach some of that as well, right?
- [09:07]
A
I. The impetus for this conversation, really one of our shared clients who's in a coaching program that I have called the Med Spa Advantage, she had missed a couple of our weekly coaching calls, which we have our weekly coaching calls on Wednesdays. And she reached, she messages me and she goes, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be at the call this week. But I've missed a couple of weeks because we hired this new company and we've had like 57 booked appointments in the last 30 days. And I've just been playing catch up because they've been so busy. And I, you know, I kind of laughed and I messaged her back. I'm like, yeah, but how many of those appointments actually showed? And she was like, 95%. I was like, wow, that's interesting. And so that was the first I'd heard of you. And since then I've had a number of other clients actually sign up with you. But I think it's really interesting, as somebody who's been in the industry a long time and heard a lot of different stories, some positive, some not so positive. When it comes to my clients hiring customer acquisition companies, I think what you guys are doing is pretty unique. The industry has. Is changing and evolving as all industries at when they become more mature do. And so I wanted to invite you on to really talk about, like, what are we seeing that is working for our clients and what specifically are some of the, like, old rules versus new rules as well, too. So where do you want to start off with? I know that number one, you said offer is king is one of the new rules that you want to chat about. So can you tell me more about that?
- [10:50]
B
Yeah. So, interestingly enough, my beginnings in this industry were when I had a creative agency. And that was my first really company that I had before Patient Engine and it was called they Do. And we got hired to do a website and branding and design work for a med spot and it was in Chicago. And interestingly enough, they asked us for marketing, you know, and I was like, well, we'll try this. So this is like, this is really about five years ago or so, maybe. Yeah, five, five and a half years ago or something. And it was right before the lockdowns. And I ran a simple ad and this, this company was doing body sculpting. This is how I kind of got into the body sculpting space. And they had a machine that was similar to coolsculpting. Right. And coolsculpting was kind of the OG in the space. And I put up a simple ad and it was something like it was a lady holding up a sign and she had whatever their machine, their vice was called, the technology that they had branded is greater than coolsculpting. Mind you probably violated a lot of rules, but it's okay at the time, at the time, you know, and no, no offense to CoolSculpting, but at the time that ads I think generated like 300 leads on a thousand dollars ad spend, right? It was like $3.30 leads. It was crazy. And one, it was a different time. Two, I think it was still early on for meta ads and I, I think that for paid acquisition people were a lot. The world looked completely different. I think people were a lot more reliable, people were a lot more committed. People actually went through and booked an appointment and showed up pretty easily. And then that quickly with like Covid and stuff like that, it changed so much, right. People became the opposite of that, right. As a, as a society, unfortunately. So that's how I kind of, that was like my first ad. Then they actually shut the business down, which is, which was kind of sad. Then fast forward to about four and a four and a half years ago. Four years ago when we were, when I was first starting, I realized looking at, I'm a big Hermosi fan for those of you who know her Mosi but he was, he's kind of the OG of social media marketing and in the service space and he talked a lot about value stacking, offer, et cetera. So I realized looking at, just studying ads and psychology of the service based businesses that you had to have an offer that was one compelling, two irresistible, three differentiated. Four it caught your attention, right? Because as we talk about offer, like my ad in that particular campaign, my first one was, was not really. It was not a, an offer based on price, it was an offer based on value or a comparison. Right. It was like hey, that's better than another thing in today's day and age that doesn't work anymore, at least to me unless you have a massive budget, right? So if you're running like a brand awareness campaign that's like hey, this is non invasive or this is better than this one. You're going to really have to spend a lot of money to get your point across. Well, a lot of my clients and your clients, well, we don't. They don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on marketing, right. So you have to use your dollars very intelligibly. Therefore, in my opinion, being price transparent. So having an upfront price, you know, anywhere between 149, 249, which is, I think the range that intra offered should operate in for aesthetics, allows you to be transparent because you're showing the retail cost, you're showing the discount, you're showing the price, you're showing what it includes. And it allows you, in my opinion, when we stack a couple things, so main treatment, bonus, it allows us to have a better offer than a competitor. Right. Unfortunately, these days, I mean, you know, there's, we've, we've seen crazy things like you know, $39 body sculpting session or stuff like that. So there's a down, there's all, of course there's a downside to that, but how you also market the designs you use, the ads you use, super important be able to do that. But the first rule, yeah to me is offer is king. If you don't have a strong offer that's better than, at least better or competitive to what your local competitors are running, you're probably going to fall behind. Especially if you don't want to spend tens of thousands of dollars, which a lot of us, like I said, it's not a budget that we have. Right. So I think it's important to talk about the pain points we're solving and the differentiators. But offer really to me is, and.
- [15:49]
A
Not to jump the, the gun, but explain it a little bit, you guys are actually collecting money or a deposit for the service on the front end.
- [16:00]
B
Yeah. So basically it has to, to us it's always been running a paid offer like in service based health and wellness esthetics marketing used to be like get free consults, book a free consult. Which like I said five years ago, a lot of people booked consults and showed up. We're not, we're not there anymore. Then there was like a get a free console plus voucher. The problem with that is most people don't know it's a voucher of what you know, it's like there's lack of transparency but also like lack of clarity. Like of what is it off. A voucher of 500 is a voucher of 10,000. Right. So we have to realize like people have very short attention spans. Everybody's distracted. We're competing as, as marketers and as providers. We're competing for time, attention, money, energy, commitment. Right. Those, those five things. So it's really hard to capture that when we only, we only have split seconds. Right. So that offer has to be communicated very clearly and we personally take deposits from our clients to secure the spot because one, we don't trust people but we, no, we just want to make sure they, they're serious about the appointment and are going to actually show. So we, you know, take a non refundable deposit, credit card on file, clearly communicate the terms and conditions. You know, there's times of the year when there's more cancellations, no shows. Yes, they're always going to happen. We'd like to think that we, we try to minimize them for clients as much as possible. Like I said, it is somewhat, you know, seasonal. But you know, at my spa, I, I have, I think I increased my no show fee. $250. It used to be 100 and I've, I've charged it a few times and I honestly, you know, I know some people are just don't feel comfortable in doing so. But if we have a client that's taking it, that's, that's committed to coming in and they, we value our time, we value their time and they call it no call, no show. We try to get a hold of them, we try to give them a chance. Otherwise we charge the national fee. I know it's, I was just in.
- [18:04]
A
Denver, I told you, and we went up to Boulder and there was a restaurant that I booked a reservation at that was like a very like, you know, best restaurants in Boulder type of a place. And they took a credit card and a fee and were like, if you don't show up, they're going to charge for each person $25, you know, and there's lots of restaurants that don't do that as well too. So I think it's, you know, you make a choice on that as well. But what I think is really interesting that a lot of people don't understand is how meta advertising works when you are actually collecting money. Meta goes out and finds people with its 10,000 little data points that are more likely to spend money online like that, are more likely to actually convert into that, do you know what I'm saying? As opposed to a free consult. Because meta is very smart as well. So it actually helps. I would, and correct me if I'm wrong, wrong Neil, and you probably could articulate it better than me, but it actually helps with your qualification process as well too. Because meta is going to go find type circuit of users that are more likely to spend money online. Is that correct?
- [19:12]
B
That's correct. I think there's two sides of this story too. I Think that we're also at the mercy of Meta's algorithm. Right. And which is kind of like the honest truth. It's like, hey, we can, we'll feed it as much data as we can. We'll try to make sure our messaging is correct in our ads and, and Meta analyzes a lot of ad elements. But at the same time, we're also at the mercy of the algorithm. And anybody who tells you otherwise is probably not being honest with you. Right. Like, these platforms, I mean, there are good algorithms are getting smarter and smarter. Are you always going to get the best lead quality people? No, you're not. But the goal is to make sure one, you have the right offer that's going to resonate with the right audience. Two, like, you communicate things clearly, your, your terms, conditions, policies, stuff like that. Right. Because in the three where, like I said, we're looking for serious clients who are looking to put down a credit card. If you're not putting down a credit card, you're likely not serious about it. Right. You're likely not serious about coming in to talk about lead quality a little bit. To be honest, in my spa, most of my clients are not very, you know, disrespect anybody, but they're not the most affluent people. And that's okay for me. It's. My target audience is busy moms and professionals who need help. You know, it's. To me, it's like, you don't have to make $300,000 to come to Iconic Spot. That's not, you know, because we have financing solutions and payment flexibility. But for me, it's like, I just, I know that one, we can provide a lot more value than, you know, some of these other providers, and we are results focused. So we serve a lot of people who just, you know, who want to make this a priority. I think there's a conversation around lead quality. And to me, now that I'm an owner, I kind of, I understand this a little bit, a little bit better. And to be honest, we do get people who can even barely afford the first offer. But guess what, we, we actually get a lot. Also get a lot of people who, you know, who put, who, who are willing to spend 2, 3, 4, 5. I mean, we've sold $7,000 packages before.
- [21:18]
A
Sure. And I have a lot of clients who are, are supposedly in markets that they think are going to be tough to do that, and then it does because people want to invest in themselves. There's a, there's a type of psychology where people, like, want to you know, they want to best invest in the, a really solid solution that they trust is going to provide them with what they're looking, the problems they're looking to solve or the outcomes they're looking to achieve. So, so how do you guys, I know you said, I think you mentioned to me that you, your philosophy is that ad spend is like a scaling mechanism. So can you talk a little bit about your philosophy around ad spend and how you can use it?
- [22:02]
B
Well, let's talk about also terrorists, you know, case study. I mean I love what I call tier three markets. I mean I want to open more SPAs in tier 3 markets, meaning more so rural areas not heavily populated, not heavily saturated. Low competition, low competition on the ad side. What that means too is we have to realize that we're not just competing on the ad side. We're not just competing against other providers, we're competing against other advertisers. You know, and if you're a woman Between 40 and 60, you're getting bombarded with ads. I mean, bombarded with ads, right, because it's, you're like, and if you spend money online you're going to be shown clothing, cosmetics, experiences, everything. Right. So what most people don't realize, right, we're, we're, we're, we're competing against a lot of other players in the space, bigger players who are spending hundreds if not millions of dollars in advertising. So that's one, that's one consideration and factor two is, is going to be the area you live in. And I talked about, I think tariffs campaign is successful because in areas like that we, we are a demand generation company, right. We're not, we don't do Google search where people go and specifically look for a treatment. We generate demand based. What that means is we target the local market and, and we find people who maybe have specific pain points that we can solve on behalf of our clients.
- [23:30]
A
To clarify what he means in case there's somebody who doesn't understand what he means. But with Google people are going out and searching for the thing and you are showing your ad in the search results of what they're is very intentional, right? They're going out and looking for it. You are, are not doing that. There's like more creativity and more things involved in meta advertising is what you're saying.
- [23:54]
B
Yeah, you know, it's more visual. You know, when you're scrolling you're able to, we can catch your attention because by using visual elements and the right messaging and slogans, you know, in an area like Tara's you know, she doesn't have a lot of competition, which, which, which is good. So we're able to, to get really, really great results really fast because we have a proven system. Right. So her cost per acquisition will likely go up over time as more people see the ads. That's, that's natural. But we know that the process in her area works. So, so it's a. To me, it's like most people, you know, unfortunately want results right away, needing gratification. And a lot of times we're able to, you know, crush it, you know, within the first couple of weeks. But sometimes it does take more time and, and it's okay because marketing isn't something that's supposed to be, like I said, an immediate gratification mechanism. It's a system that's perfected, that's improved, that's measured. To me, it's important to look at seasonality, it's important to look at markets, and it's important to look at a competition, and it's important to look at the offer. Right. And we said, offer is king. So, you know, we want to look at three months worth of data and understand, okay, we spent X amount on ad spend, and in Tara's case was 3,000. We spent X amount on ad spend. How many. What is our cost per acquisition? So as it relates to ad spend, Right. If it's 10 appointments, that's 300. It's. It's 50 appointments, it's $60 per appointment. Right. I typically see 100 to 200 depending on the market. It's kind of like the, the average range, 100 being less competitive markets, smaller suburbs, smaller cities, rural areas, and then 200 being like super competitive. Like a downtown Chicago. Yeah. Or Scottsdale. Yeah, Scottsdale. So it really depends where you are. Right. And you should be cognizant of it because if you're in a higher income area that's more populated, that's has a lot more providers in it, your cost to advertise is going to be higher. Right. But the upside is you probably, you know, you get access to people who have higher discretionary incomes. Therefore, sales is super important. I know we'll talk about that today, but that's something to be cognizant about. I'm not, I'm not the person to be to sugarcoat stuff. I like to look at data and say, hey, this is what we see in your area. This is what you can expect. You know, if you spend four grand on ad spend, 20 to 40 appointments. Right. Depending on where you're located right depending what time of the year it is. Right. Right now body sculpting is actually doing pretty well in October. But you know, facial aesthetics is really great in Q4. You know, January through July, body sculpting season, July through moving forward facial aesthetics season. So those are important things. So when it comes to ad spend, when you know your cost per acquisition or on an average and you know you're making sales, what do you do? And I mean it's to me like, like I said, it's not rocket science, but like you just put in more ad spend and you don't have to just, you know, double it overnight. We advise to gradually increase it as you go. So what that means is ad spend in bad times or tough times or competitive times, off season times is a mitigator against slowdowns.
- [27:11]
A
Right.
- [27:12]
B
What that means it will help you potentially offset higher costs. You know, like we're talking about, you know, Christmas when we have a lot of E Commerce competitors. Right. Stuff like that.
- [27:26]
A
An election.
- [27:27]
B
Don't get me started. Yeah, it's, I mean, yeah, the election's definitely been messing with, especially now that there's political ads running, right. It's, they're taking a lot of the, the market share in good times. It's a scaling mechanism, meaning I'm just, I'm doing well. I want more appointments, I want more clients, I want more sales. I'm just going to increase my ad spend. I personally think if you're running a paid ads campaign, you should gradually increase your ad spend continuously. You know, at my small little med spot we do $4,500 a month in ad spend. Our worst month was 30,000 in sales. Right. Our best month was 57,000 in sales. And I'm going to continuously increase my ad spend, right. Every couple of months I'm going to go up by 20% or 25%. I'm just going to keep going until I hit capacity. I know it's a good problem to have, but like that to me is super important. Like I said this before on my, I think it was one of a podcast I was on like three years ago, we as an agency, but always invested in marketing no matter what the time was of the year because, and we increased our spend continuously over the course of years because I knew that growth today is the best hedge against any future uncertainty or risk or losses. To me as a business owner in service, in a service based business, like I would write that down over and over again and I told myself, like I need to be able to grow now. I have no idea what's going to happen three months, I have no idea what's going to happen in six months. But I know that if I can grow today, it's going to put me in a better place six months from now. And if I have tough times coming up, at least I would have had that growth and cash flow and money in a bank to be able to offset any potential losses in the future.
- [29:20]
A
Totally. Okay, I know that A question that many of my clients have or many of the listeners to my podcast have or have experienced in the last however many years and something that you all do well is actually getting people. Of course there's some no shows but I, I have clients who've worked with companies where the no show rate is extremely high for their paid ad funnels. So you guys have come up with a very strong lead conversion. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Because that is something like you alluded to just at the top of our conversation that five years ago that part was less critical than it is these days now.
- [30:10]
B
Yeah, I mean I, it was non existent at that point. And well one, I to talk about the history of the company. Like I used to just do lead gen and we would, you know, put people through the funnel and have them schedule an appointment and send a confirmation and, and then some of our clients would call and like do a pre consult or another confirmation etc. Then we realized man, we're getting. I was, I was, I was looking at the pains of an industry. I'm like man, there's a lot more no shows and also my clients don't have the staff, resources, capacity, energy, desire to convert leads. It's very specific skill set with a very specific process that you need to continuously improve that requires not only workflows and nurturing and automations and stuff but it requires a human touch point. So my director of client success, she came from a very high performing med spy and we built this lead conversion team, we call them appointment closers. And it's like a sales customer service, front desk kind of hybrid. And you know this team is, is absolutely wonderful. They're very, they're driven, they're, you know, and their goal, they're commission based. So they, their goal is to convert as many people as many leads into actual booked appointments, credit cards, deposits on file, calling, texting, emailing, voicemail, dropping, just to get a hold of people. I mean we, we all know how hard it is to get a hold of people these days. I Always say this, like, don't, you know, don't try to call me. My phone is on sleep mode. So I can imagine, you know. You know, it's, you know, so I, I think even, you know, in, during these slower, slower months, like even in Q4, our teams, like some of our conversion rates are like 30 to 35%. Like, it's, it's really fascinating. Right. So even if our lead flow comes down, we're still working our asses off to convert as many of these people into these committed clients on, on. On our clients schedules. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a little bit more about our, you know, lead conversion team. And I think that it's still a big pinpoint in our industry. And I know our clients love the fact that they don't have to nurture these leads. Because if you're a metsbourner or you are a practice manager, whatever, you want to focus on client experience. Right. Client retention and working on your business, not in your business, just, you know, not calling leads. Right. That's.
- [32:47]
A
So if somebody books an appointment through the ad, then somebody on your team helps nurture to make sure that they actually show up. But you've already collected the credit card.
- [32:58]
B
Yeah. So most, most of the appointments we actually book is, I think probably a lot of. A lot of them is just on the phone. We call the lead and we say, hey, what's holding you back from either booking a time or putting down a credit card? And then we're able to answer questions, make them feel comfortable, motivate them, encourage them. Like I said, answer any basic questions, whatever. They need to be able to move forward in the next. Next. Next step.
- [33:29]
A
Gotcha.
- [33:30]
B
Okay, I know we're gonna do a Q and A, but there is a question that came up here that I see. So if you're in a very saturated area, what would be the minimum ad spend? How do you know if you need to spend more or the ad is just not good? Good question. I think these days, to be honest, we're really trying to get a hundred dollars a day as minimum ad spend just because we see that there's competitors. Like there's every single day, guys, there's a. There's more competitors coming to the market every single day. Unfortunately, our government's printing money. Your dollars are worth less, meaning it's going to affect commodities, including advertising. So you probably are going to need to spend more. It's. It's the reality of things. Unless you're running a $29 offer, which most of us Won't ever do. We're going to need to spend money. Right. So I think our minimum was like $2,400 for facial aesthetics. You know, in California we always say three to four thousand. You're absolutely minimum. It really depends on the market you're in. Right. You know, if you are interested, obviously we'll talk about how you can get in touch with us later. But we would advise one, on the area you're in, two, on how much money you want to make. Right. That's really important.
- [34:47]
A
Any open bookings you have, right?
- [34:50]
B
Yeah. What is your capacity? Like, you know, if you want 100 appointments, it's. You're likely not going to get that on 3K ad spend. Right. So it's really about expectations. Like, it's really about like, hey, I want to get, you know, 20 appointments. Okay. Well, you know, you're in a very saturated area. It's probably going to be probably 4 grand in AD spend at the least. Best case scenario you might actually get more appointments. But let's be conservative. Right, but we'll talk about really. I know I'm throwing out some bigger numbers guys, but we'll talk about sales a little bit later and you'll see how all of this makes a lot of sense.
- [35:29]
A
Right? No, of course. And there's another question we can get you to answer as well too. I would much rather. And I think Neil, one of the things I like about him is he's very transparent on the front end as well too. So that people can be. It is about managing in a service based industry that you know, you and I are in and all of our clients are in. Managing expectations is really important and setting people up for success. And we're going to talk about like why mastering high ticket sales is so important and also obviously retention as well too because you know, if you're break even on the deposit, if you will, is that kind of your philosophy a little bit is to make it that that deposit or is it just is?
- [36:15]
B
I think our, I think our break even has always been like sell a package and then you're good. Which is amazing. Right. Because it mitigates the risk. But you know, you cover your cost of marketing. But I look at client lifetime value, right. And at the least I look at annual value of a client and we talk about, you know, measuring. Right. So many METSPA owners do not measure, you know, their average ticket, their retention of a customer, their, you know, how much sales revenue they can derive from a customer. Right. Looking at things very, in a short Term lens. Instead of looking at creating a lifetime customer, I spent, you know, 20 to $25,000, made sometimes some months even more on ads in my agency. Most of the time, you know, month one, you know, we break even or lose money. And that's okay. I'm cognizant of that. But it's retention for me that matters. Right. Because I have insanely high labor costs. So for me, it's like I'm incentivized to keep a client happy and have them stay with me for as long as I can because that's how I'm going to make my return on investment or return on ad spend. And everybody wants to make money right off the bat and sell these packages. I know that. And this is what you and I both are very big advocates of. But you have to look at the long term. Yeah.
- [37:40]
A
If you don't mind, Neil, I'm just going to pop these questions in now since I see them. What are the hallmarks of a high quality ad? But before you get to that, I do think this is related to ad spend and everything we're talking about. You are a big. And I'm a fan of this as well too, that you don't want to, especially when you're first starting with a company you don't want to have, you don't want to dilute across like body sculpting, facial aesthetics, like hair restoration. Right. Meaning you don't. You want to stay focused in the beginning as well too.
- [38:15]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, one, we know what we're good at. So I'm not going to sit here and pretend, you know, we can do everything. And I would love to get into hair restoration one day, but it's.
- [38:25]
A
I will, I just was saying randomly.
- [38:28]
B
Like I know I will get into why also I'll get into some, some, some methodologies and around like why we do certain services. Maybe I'll just, actually I'll dive into that right now. I think it's important if you're a client of mine, if you're a, if you've spoken to me in the past, you know, I'm very big on. I talk about this a lot. People have lost trust in service providers, all service providers. So you need an intro offer to be able to have an opportunity to meet a prospect whether you like it or not. Right. People do not buy packages or treatment plans or signature menu item things over a thousand dollars without meeting and consulting a provider, without having.
- [39:11]
A
Not to a cold traffic ad. They don't. No.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah, exactly. Right. So it's like you need an offer, right? But some things you're not going to be able to give away from 149 to 249, which is, which I understand, right? Some treatments are $2,000 a piece, right? You're not going to be able to give that away. Therefore, you need to look at items or services that are less costly to be able to have that opportunity to catch somebody's attention. That's number one, right? So this is why we do body sculpting and facial aesthetics. I think, you know, a lot of hair restoration, for example, campaigns, you know, it's like, you know, it's two treatments for five grand a piece, right? It's, it's hard to give that away. And we already talked about why free consults or free console plus vouchers don't work. Also if it's free, I can't take a deposit on it. Right. Which is a big point. So that's, that's why we talked about like, offer is king. So when we first start, I talk to clients or Josh, my business growth manager, we talk to clients about, you know, what are you good at in selling, right? Like, is it, is it Facial aesthetics is body sculpting. We know body sculpting, it's a little bit easier to convert clients into a package. But facial aesthetics, I think we're leaning, we're going towards this, this, this, this world where it's more about these holistic facial esthetics, rejuvenation, anti aging, skin care transformations and less about, hey, you know, maybe come back, come back next month, see what happens. You know, so which obviously you're, you're removing predictability from your own sales process. By doing that, you're doing yourself a disservice. So getting that upfront ROI and selling these transformation plans obviously is super important. So we try to focus on one, what type of season it is, what's, you know, and what's performing. Obviously what services. The client has to be able to create that initial offer and then we try to focus on that for, you know, for the first, call it 90 days. And then a lot of our clients will buy another campaign from us. For like example, if we do face, they'll buy body, body, then face. And we basically treat it as a separate project, separate client. So we try to be focused. You know, this is part of our strategy as well. To grow is to be able to differentiate. But we don't try to like run 17 different services. And like you said, diluting ad spend because One, for a campaign to be successful, you need to concentrate your spend to get in front of a large audience so you can gather the data and you can get results. It's not like putting like 200 bucks here, 200 bucks here.
- [41:56]
A
In addition to ad spend. Are there additional fees or are your fees incorporated? No, the agency fee should always. This is just my opinion. This isn't even just for Neil. You always want the agency fee separate from the ad fee. Meaning you want to know what your ad spend is. Would, Would you agree with me, Neil?
- [42:14]
B
Yeah. I mean, your ad spend, you're going to have to pay that anyways. Right. Whether you advertise with an agency or not. So it's basically the cost components. I mean, if you're interested in working with us, we'll dive into those details for you. But the cost components are really, you know, we have our agency fees plus commissions per booked appointment, and then plus the ad spend. Like the ad spend, when you have to think about it, it's just a, it's an expense you're going to have to make. The agency fees and. Or commissions are basically what we make. Right. So I wish that I could, you know.
- [42:49]
A
Right. Well, there are some, there are some agencies out there that will like give a fee and they're like.
- [42:56]
B
That includes like a markup or something.
- [42:58]
A
Yes. And they're not. And then they're not transparent on. I mean, I'm, I'm just saying I've had clients who have been burned before because of that, and it's not as transparent either. So you always want the agency fee separate from the ad spend so that you. It's just less convoluted, if you will. Benjamin says. We've tried running Facebook ads, but we got a bunch of cheap clients who didn't want to buy any packages. How do you avoid those clients?
- [43:25]
B
Good question. Two things. Two things. 80% of people have money. 20% of people don't have money. 80, 20. I. If you, if you guys. I mean, I love stats, mathematics, psychology. Everything is 80, 20 in life. So I think 80 people have money. They either will spend it or don't want to spend it. If you can't CONVEY the value, 20% of people will. Are cheap or don't have the money. Right. So let's, let's talk about reframing the mindset. I never blame my leads for not buying.
- [43:56]
A
We are so in this on the same page here. There's not a market that I've worked in and I've worked in some, like, supposedly Challenging, you know, low socioeconomic markets with clients. I have not worked in a market where we have not been able to sell high ticket signature packages on the back end. Once we have a good sales system for really presenting the value of the offer, the, the outcomes, when somebody believes, when somebody believes they're really going to get the results that they actually booked the appointment for originally, they are much more likely to convert and it is less like whether they're a cheap and so I'm on the same page with you. I like the 8020 I think is correct as well too. So go on Neil. I didn't mean to interrupt but I had to jump in.
- [44:45]
B
There's always going to be people like that in my opinion. Right. And but it's to me it's like how can I be better? How can my consultant be better? What can I do better to convey the value? What can I, how can I improve my process? How can I handle. Objection. Objections. Better. How can I provide financing solutions? There's so many different tools and resources. We have to be better. Right. Just because somebody didn't buy a package doesn't mean they're cheap. Maybe we just didn't do a good enough of a job. Right. And that's, that's a reframing the mindset and we, we have sales coaching and training for our clients to be able to go through some of these different things. Because you should not expect your clients to buy if you don't do your homework. That means if you don't have the right process, consultation process, no one's going to, they're probably not going to buy because they're coming in there to check out the initial offer. So you need to put them in your effective initial first visit process for them to be, for them to even consider buying a treatment plan. With that said, how can we on our end of things, what can we control as an advertiser? So one, we can control the offer. I'll tell you that the bigger the initial offer price, the less people you're going to get from a volume perspective. But it helps to somewhat vet the initial clients, especially showing the retail costs, even if the offer is really good, showing the retail costs, introducing them to maybe initial package pricing or at least a range before they even come in. Number two, we try to target high income areas as much as possible. We have, we use the census map where we try to focus on higher income areas. Nothing is foolproof. Unfortunately. Meta has removed a lot of the income targeting and it's also including people who live or have been recently in an area. So it's not 100% unfortunately. But we do our best to try to, like I said, target high income areas. You know, I think our appointment closers do a good job of educating and motivating clients to potentially, potentially move forward in the process. I don't want to say they're not responsible for selling treatment plans for our clients, but they are, you know, they do a good job of I think educating people. If, you know, they say, hey, like, am I going to get results? Like, yeah, I think there's a good chance you're going to get results that might not happen right away. Maybe your body or face need to process things or you know, heal etc. Before you see actual results. But based on, you know, what your goals are, your, whoever you're going to meet with is going to, you know, recommend a treatment plan that's going to be, that's going to help you achieve your goals. So I think there is a. Yeah.
- [47:30]
A
You have to have a game plan for your consultations that really help in it like a very elegant way helps convey what it's actually going to take to get the outcomes that they originally booked for as well too. And putting a lot of thought into that as well too. That's, I mean that's what we work with our clients on as well too is making sure that they really have offers, signature packages on things that adequately conveys what the expected results are going to be and letting them know that it takes more, you know, it's probably going to take a combination approach if we're talking about facial aesthetics to help them get the best outcomes as possible. So putting together a very good game plan for that initial conversation is going to help you ensure that you're optimizing the results that you're getting from your front end advertising as well too. You have to have a high ticket back end game plan for those initial consultations and that's when you can, that's when it gets really fun because then your ad spend, you're like multiples of the ad spend as opposed to worrying about like converting that offer.
- [48:53]
B
Yeah, and I'll say this, the more you spend, the better results you're going to get. Always with ad spend. So let's just say you do have cheap clients. Let's just say it really depends on how good you are in sales. But let's just say you do have cheap clients. Well, guess what, if you're getting 30 clients a month, who cares if you have cheap clients because you're still upselling a lot of your other clients. This really comes down to sales. Right. It's hard for me to think that, you know, let's just say you get 20 appointments a month. If you get 20 appointments a month and you don't upsell any of them, it's not, it's not the clients, it's you. And that's a harsh truth to swallow, but, like, it's you. Like, I know, you know, in my spa, we convert some months. I think our worst month was 40%. Our best month was like 80%. Right. And so we can, we like 60%. And we always tell ourselves, like, I'm not, we're not blaming the clients. Like, we're just, we're going to do our best to sell them. If they're there and they have disposable income or they can qualify for cherry financing or any other solutions, whatever you have, then we're going to do our best to help them. Because if we can't sell them, we can't help them. Right. So we're, we're, we're, we're actually reframing our mindset to a point where it's like, we're not really trying to, like, derived, you know, just take all of their money. We're really trying to help them. And that's allowed us to also being able to sell things a little bit more organically than just saying, like, hey, you know, buy this because you need this. Right. But I know, you know, everybody's always saying, like, hey, you know, this client didn't buy. It was cheap. I mean, like I said, the reality of it is there's going to be cheap clients for sure. But the other side of that reality is you just, you got to get better at sales. And we have, we support our clients in doing so.
- [50:40]
A
Agreed. I want to be cognizant of our time here, too.
- [50:45]
B
I got time. I got time.
- [50:47]
A
I think it is critical to have a game plan. And, you know, what happens with a lot of the clients I've worked with is that it's inconsistent across their providers on sales because they don't have a really strong sales game plan as well. And so putting together a very strong and elegant, like, you know, Neil has a process. I have the CARES consultation process that I coach all of our clients on as well, too. And the goal with that is to really be able to elegantly convey to the patient or client how, you know, a certain solution when. And we really like annual game plans as well, too. So I recommend giving, like, at least A high level annual game plan that's part of our consult process at the get go because it plants the seed for future sales as well too. But at the end of the day you got to have a game plan and also a system that you have so all of you can, you can rely on multiple providers to be able to.
- [51:49]
B
So Heather, with that annual game plan, do you basically set the expectation with the patient on the first visit that you, you know, like, hey, this is, you know, setting the stage for that long term relationship. And then do you let them know like, hey, we'll check in with you periodically?
- [52:06]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is, this is what I would say. And you know, I have, you know, depending on clients, they have different variations of it, but yeah, I recommend annual consultations letting the patient know at that first visit that similarly to how you go to your primary care doctor and you have an annual well check or an annual physical, we do an annual, you know, skin check or you know, whatever the, the specialty of the practice might be because we really partner with our patients long term annual holistic goals. I always recommend using some sort of an analogy or metaphor that's the e part of our care C A R E s process. And I always used a dental or ortho analogy when I was selling in consults in a practice. And so it anchors it to some another field, if you will, that your patient or client is going to understand. Oh like yeah, I need an annual game plan as opposed to just a one off to solve this problem that I'm coming for and especially with facial aesthetics as well too. And then from there I would say, hey, you know, this particular correct, you know, whatever package it might be is similarly to braces, right. Like it's going to give you more advanced outcomes or advanced correction or what have you as well. This skin care system is like not getting medical grade skin care would be like not brushing and flossing your teeth in between your dental appointments. Right? Like you would never do that. And it anchors it to something that the patient actually already invests in. They already invest value. Like I have three kids, I already invest five to seven grand for my kids for corrective braces. It makes sense to me that this package that might be five to seven grand is going to be like, it's going to give me more advanced correction. I really like annual game plans. And then we plant the seed like, hey, like you should, you know, you're going to be coming in for docs, let's say every three to four months if we're talking about facial aesthetics, let's make it glow tox and like have it be a little bit elevated where we're weaving it in. We're letting them know the game plan from the get go. I recommend letting them know if you have a membership right at the get go. You're not necessarily collecting like if they need multiple packages, if you will. Like for myself, I'm a 46 year old woman and I invested in the equivalent to two signature packages last year for myself. And so it doesn't necessarily mean you're collecting everything you'll you want to get them on an initial package, but planting the seed and letting them know like you have an intentional game plan for them for the year. And then another year from now we're going to check in, see how you're doing and then establish another annual game plan. This helps with your average patient visit value. It helps with the lifetime value that I know you and I both care about deeply as well too. And it sets the stage and the expectations for folks as well too. So that's what I recommend. I recommend shifting your and having it be where every year that you, your providers are doing like an annual well check if you will because it opens the dialogue again beyond that initial consultation too.
- [55:31]
B
Yeah, I think that's shifting the conversation from the offer that they, that caught their attention to like hey, I want to help you. I think that most, a lot of people struggle with this. I think and this is why the key things that I like to always address and all of our clients when they get access to our program, there's we do four modules. One is on mindset, which to me is very, very important. We talked about that a little bit today. Yeah, extremely important. Taking ownership and accountability of the outcome. Two and also mindset of helping versus selling Two is pricing strategy. I know, I know. You do an excellent job of helping your clients create these signature menu items and packages which are kind of customized to a person's needs, but they're also beautifully branded. In my small spa, we do more like customized treatment plans for depending on a person's needs, whether it's fat reduction, cellulite reduction, skin tightening, muscle toning, how many inches they're looking to lose, etc. And then we actually take 20% off is our standard approach. But pricing strategy, having a pricing strategy that is more so outcome focused than just like standard tiers of like you know, five pack, ten pack of this, whatever process, initial visit process. Super important, right? Yes, we talked about this. Don't expect to sell if you didn't, if you're not, if you don't know what a client actually needs and wants. And needs and wants are two different things. And then the last thing for us is objection. Handling and closing, right? Objection. Handling being able to handle a no and turn that into a yes and then closing. Being able to just assume the sale and close the deal. So all those things are super important in being able to master high ticket sales. I have a question here, so I'm going to answer it because I think it's coming at the right time. But I call my, the gal who works for me a consultant because it's, we do consultative selling. Are you consultants paid commission only or hourly and commission what? I pay a salary just because I want them to have the security. I pay a monthly salary. But, you know, on the other side of the table, you can do hourly as well. It's, it's pretty close. But I pay salary and I pay 10% of commissions for any packages over 750 that we sell from Patient Engine clients. So that my agency runs my, my patient acquisition for my spa. And she gets 15% for any clients she gets from any referrals she gets from that she generates on her own, which incentivizes her to go out and get more clients. If you have somebody who's incentivized, who takes ownership, who knows that they're going to make more money when they sell more for you, why not give him a, an incentive to do that, a structure to do that? She wants to sell as much as possible. She wants to help as many people as possible. And that structure allows her to maximize her earning potential. She's, I mean, guys, she's made, I mean, she's made almost $10,000 one month, right? Like she wants to make sales, she wants to generate her own referrals. Right. But let's talk a little bit about high ticket sales because just because you're getting clients and patients doesn't mean you're going to get an roi, right, Heather?
- [59:12]
A
Oh my gosh. Right. Yeah, no, it's, it's critical and I, you know, to speak to the mindset briefly. I think, you know, a lot of the providers we work with, it's a mix. There's, you know, we have a lot of esthetician providers, a lot of laser techs, and then there's a lot of providers that are coming out of healthcare in some ways and they, you know, they think of selling as slimy, right, as this thing. And, and really we have to shift that thought Process from slimy to like, we are helping our patients and clients make decisions in their best interest, right? And when we have that at the heart of, of what the spirit of it is, then we can open ourselves up to really have conversations with the patient or clients. But that's, that's number one that we've had. And like, it's funny because your first module is mindset. Our first module is mindset as well too, because I can give a strategy to a hundred people and depending on energetically what they're thinking and their beliefs, that strategy is going to be executed and implemented differently across those 100 people, even though it's the same exact strategy, strategy, if you will. And I think you know that as well too. So it really does matter, the mindset part, which is why both you and I have it as a critical component to high ticket sailing and then having a really good game plan for what, what you're going to actually say. And the reason why I'm so bullish on a, a signature menu like, and having a structure that is maybe a little bit more defined than just customized treatment plans is because the more clarity your provider has on what should be recommended to whom and when, the more certainty they will present that recommendation. And the less I can, the more I can help circumvent the cognitive load of your providers who are presenting the packages or game plans, the annual game plans, the more you know, and then I take into account the cognitive load that the patient or client has as well too. The more we can simply present and have clarity on, you know, what we want, recommended to whom and when, the more certainty we will convey and the less confusing it is for the patient as well to make decisions because we're lessening the amount of decisions that they have to make as well too. What else about high ticket selling do you want to add in?
- [61:54]
B
Well, I think a lot of people shy away from, from higher ticket tiers, right? I think a lot of people want, think that they need to, you know, maybe sell a lower tier and then, and then get people to come back. I think that, you know, like I said, we've sold seven thousand dollar packages before because the person needed it. To me it's like, man, like if I can sell a few of those, it's amazing, right? So to me we're not shying away from big ticket items. We're not shying away from asking for them, we're not shining, shying away from putting together plans that are going to help the customers achieve their outcomes, right? We're not, we're not shot. We're, we're being transparent. We're setting good expectations, we're being honest and we're, we know we can help them. So we have the confidence to be able to say, hey, we could, you could start with this 15, 1500 dollars package. But to get the results you want, it's probably gonna, it's probably gonna cost you double that. Where do you wanna start? Sometimes they buy the lower package, but guess what? It's never a question of if, it's a question of how. That is also reframing the mindset, right? It's like this person's here because they have needs. I don't wanna assume how much money they have or questioning their decision making or their purchasing behaviors, whatever it is. I know if they have the pain points, I'm going to find out what those pain points are and I'm going to find out where they want to go, how fast they want to go, what else they tried before, what are they doing right now to help themselves, how bad they want it, what they want it for, motivations, the why. And these are all the questions that we should be asking in a consultation because the consultation is about them, treatment plan parts is about how we can help them fill those gaps. So to me it's taking ownership of that sales process and closing in clients super important. And I'll say this, I mean it's very, very feasible to be able to do really well in the short term, right? But with paid ads, these aren't going to be referral clients. So we need to be cognizant of that. Which means we just need to be sharper and better in our sales process. Doesn't mean we can't sell them the same type of treatment plans and high tickets items, right? It doesn't mean that we should be shying away from that. Like I talked in our Facebook group yesterday about planning I do with my consultant in my spot every Monday we do planning and we talk about how many new clients we have from Patient Engine, how many referral clients we have or people who just found us. And then we try to set conversion goals. How many people are going to upsell, what are going to be our sales goals this, this week. Do we have any people coming back for retail? Do we, are we going to sell a membership? We have a strategy every week to 30 minute and we set, I set expectations, what I'm looking for. We talk about challenges, initiatives, etc. And like, hey listen, like these, you know, I spoke to these people I already called these ladies, like this lady qualified for financing. This lady was telling me that she wants full body. This lady was, you know, wants to work on her stomach. And, and then we have it. Like you said, game plan. It's all about the game plan. We have a strategy, we have a game plan. When people come in, they forget about the offer, they forget about the offer. We dive right into why are you here?
- [65:19]
A
I agree, like, you know, this is why, like having like an initial question based framework at the beginning to really discover what their goals are and their, you know, their why and to like unpack that, give yourselves a little bit of time to actually do that during the first consultation is so important as well too because once you've uncovered what their goals are and or what problems they're looking to solve, then it becomes really natural to be able to tell them that a solution, it's our duty to tell them this solution that they really actually need as well too. It is actually a negative experience to spend 800, 1500 dollars to discover that I actually needed to spend four to five grand to get the results that I want. I'd much rather you all sell a five to seven to tell them they need a five to $7,000 package, set that expectation and then, you know, if they don't take it, that's fine, but at least you, it's, it's, it's worse when you've sold somebody who something. I've actually had this happen to me myself as well. And then I found out after the fact that I actually needed a lot more than what the provider told me I needed. And she made an assumption that like not everybody wants to be told the, you know, the smallest item. I want to be told what's going to get me the most outstanding results. Like that's why I'm here. Neil, you're an example of this right now, right? You're not telling, you're telling people honestly, hey, like you're gonna need a certain amount of ad spend in order to get great results, right?
- [66:56]
B
Well yeah, when you think about it, just looking at pure data and, and I mean you could do, you could, you started a business to be able to get a higher return on investment, right? That's really why we do that. Or you could put your money in the market and make 5 to 10% year over year. And that's as entrepreneurs, 5 to 10% is not a return that we want.
- [67:18]
A
But not a very exciting return.
- [67:20]
B
No, no. And aesthetics like those returns can be high, right? Like, you know, if you get 3 to 5x. Like you're going to be really. But you have to realize, one, you have to sell and sell effectively. Two, you have to retain your clients and three, you just have to continue to invest and get better, otherwise the immediate gratification is going to kill you. And when you look at ad spend, I have people who are like, you know, you know, who have said, hey, like, you know, you want me to invest 5, 6, 7, $8,000 a month all in. I'm like, yeah, well, you told me you wanted to make 50,000 extra in revenue. Do you, I mean, do you think you can invest a thousand and make 50? I, I don't know these types of businesses. If you do, let me know. I'm happy to invest. You know, I think being realistic, having realistic goals and having realistic expectations is critical because otherwise you just lie in yourself. You fooling yourself. Like, you know, I know that by now, five years down the road. I know, like, my return on Appspan, like there's some months has been really, really crazy. Amazing, right? But it's always been about offer ad spend, sales. Like all the rules that we talked about today, I've always followed that frame. I followed that framework even since I started my swab, because I know that if I start to get too dreamy about things, it brings me back to earth. Right. So I think those were, you know, some of these rule, the key rules and lessons that we say, like, you're probably, if you want to make 20,000amonth in extra revenue, it's probably going to cost you 5,000. Right. Or more. Right. It's like, that's the reality of things. And this is why retention is so important. Client lifetime value, building relationships with your clients, getting referrals. I also love, you know, strategic partnerships, like a big thing for me. We had a, a hair salon owner who, who is next to us and she came over for a consultation. We sold her a massive package and she loved her results. So she started talking to her clients about, about us and we basically, you know, I think she finished her treatment plan. So every client she sends us, we give her a free session and she just keeps sending us clients and we're able to close these packages. So strategic partnerships, paid ads, referrals. Love it. I think those are the three most predictable ways to scale an esthetics business, in my opinion. I think there's a lot of other stuff that we could do. We just have to be careful of where we put our time. Attention.
- [70:02]
A
Sure. Yeah. Oh, Neil, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. I know. I, I get asked about customer acquisition all the time and I love what you guys are doing and I appreciate you coming on to talk honestly to share your insights with us. And if somebody's listening or here with us live, where can they go to connect with you and your team and have a conversation to find out if they're a good candidate for Patient Engine.
- [70:37]
B
Yeah. So PatientEngine co not.com forward/new clients is where you can go to schedule in a discovery call with us. And we have a couple bonuses for, for the next few people that sign up. So it's, it's important to mention that when you do book your appointment that there's a note there at the end after you pick a time. Would love to know whether you came from this podcast or from Heather's program. So we can so we can note that internally at Neil Karski on Instagram. If you want to follow me, follow Heather as well. If you don't already. She's amazing. And yeah, PatientEngine Co new clients is where you can book a call with us. If it's a good fit, we'll schedule another call with you and get things going. And if it's not, at least we'll be able to offer you some advice and some value to help you with your business.
- [71:36]
A
Amazing, Neil. We'll link all that up in the show notes for those of you who are listening on the podcast as well. Thank you to everybody who is here live and asked questions and we appreciate all of you. And for those of you who came over from Neil's world, you can the best place to connect with me is on Instagram @HeatherTurveen. I you can DM me over there to ask any questions I will respond back to personally and then to subscribe to the medba CEO podcast. I drop a new episode every Wednesday and that's a good starting point to get into my world to learn about what I'm doing as well too well. Thank you Neil. Thank you to everybody who joined us live and talk soon. Hey, if you're enjoying this podcast and you're a boutique results driven med spa owner who is looking to drive more sales profitably each month month without hustling yourself into the ground to do so, then you should consider applying to join us inside of the MedSpa Advantage. It's the only program designed to help you grow your revenue and profits while gaining back more time so that you don't feel scattered and drained while running and growing your business. Each month to learn more about whether or not you're a fit for joining us. You can head over to heatherturveen.com applaud, apply to apply to get on a call with us to learn more. That's heatherturveen.com forward/apply to learn more.