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Med Spa Success Strategies
How to Hire and Retain Top Talent for Your Med Spa - Interview with Kim Burke
01:00:07
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- [00:00]
Ricky Shockley
Welcome to the Med Spa Success Strategies podcast. I'm your host, Ricky Shockley with MedSpa Magic Marketing. And this is where med spa and aesthetics practice owners come to discover strategies and tactics that help them better market and manage their practices so they can grow, improve profitability and have more financial freedom. I'm excited today to be joined by Kim Burke. Kim is the founder and medical director of KISS Aesthetics. She's a certified nurse practitioner and is listed as one of the top 100 best injectors in America. She she also trains the best in the industry by instructing the KISS Academy, her own private injectable training course. We're going to talk about how Kim grew a successful business from scratch, how she goes about hiring and managing a team of a players and how critical that is to operating a successful med spa. And then some things she she's done from just a marketing client acquisition standpoint with consults and just some other best practices that have helped her her grow a super successful business in the Chicagoland area. So with that being said, let's get right into today's interview. Hi Kim, thank you so much for joining us. We're excited to have you on the podcast today.
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Kim Burke
Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here, Ricky. Thank you.
- [01:08]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah, I'm excited about this conversation. I guess for those that aren't familiar, could you give us a little bit of a background on yourself and your business? Your business is, I guess, yeah.
- [01:17]
Kim Burke
So I'm a nurse practitioner by trade. I am the owner of KISS Esthetic Chicago. So we have two locations in the southwest burbs and they're about 45 minutes, about 40, 45 minutes away from each other. We have one location in the town that we're currently living in, and then we have another location actually in the area that I grew up in. So I have a lot of, you know, contacts there and it just felt kind of natural to have. That was actually our first location was the area that I grew up in. And slowly and kind of organically the other location came about just because I realized, you know, I have a lot of clients and friends that live in my immediate area and I would love to be able to service them a lot easier. And the fact that even if I didn't grow as a business, it would just be nice to have something close, close to home for me to go and, you know, do some office hours at. And honestly, that location has actually grown quicker and has a larger clientele than our original location, which is kind of unusual because where we live, it's, it's. We're in the middle of nowhere. Ish. We have grain elevators across the street from our location. We're in the downtown area of Minooka. Having said that, it's still about 45 miles outside of the city. And we get a lot of phone calls when people are on their way and they're like, I think I'm lost. And we're like, nope, nope. You see?
- [02:55]
Ricky Shockley
Just keep going.
- [02:55]
Kim Burke
You see grain elevators. Yep, we're in the right spot. And they're like, really? And it's just really interesting because as soon as they walk into our practice, they're like, wow, this doesn't feel like it should be in this town. And we're like, I know, that's the whole point. And so slowly, you know, we have had other competitors, you know, in the area start businesses very similar to ours. And, you know, it's, it's, it's in a way, I guess a compliment, but it is what it is. We're continuing to do what we do, which at the end of the day is provide excellent customer service, amazing results, and have people want to come back and tell their friends. And, you know, the whole experience of, you know, that was fun. They, they enjoy the camaraderie, the fact that they see that we're having fun with this and we enjoy what we do and they feel that and they want to pass that along to the people that they love and care about because they want them to experience the same thing.
- [04:00]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah. That's awesome. I was, as we were kind of preparing for the interview, I looked at your reviews and it's very rare you see someone with that many reviews maintaining like a five star rating on Google. So I want to get into some of those things around patient care. So going back to the decision to start a med spa, what made you actually want to start your own business and not just be an injector somewhere?
- [04:19]
Kim Burke
Well, that's a great question. So. So from the first I started working when I was like 13 or 14 years old, you know, at the neighborhood restaurant, until I was in my late 30s, I could say that out of all the companies I've worked for, whether they were healthcare related or if they were, you know, completely of the healthcare industry, I worked for one company that I felt valued and as if they actually cared about their employees. And it was, it was kind of disheartening because especially when you're in the healthcare industry and you're taking care of people in the hospital setting. Let's Say for example, where these people are sick and they need, they need you and you know, we're doing more with less and, you know, more patience, less support staff, supplies are limited and just the expectation keeps getting higher and higher and higher and that doesn't feel good. So one of the biggest things that, you know, I, I wanted to this event, this started off as being kind of a side gig as most people start in their injection. Yeah, I was working full time as a family nurse practitioner. I had a fabulous job where I had amazing benefits and made great money. I just wasn't using my brain per se. Like it was a very kind of mindless job, but extremely flexible. And in my head I thought I was going to retire from that company. And once I started kind of taking some classes and learning how to inject, I really felt empowered. And I was like, you know what? I can do this and I think I can do this well. And I think I can balance working my current job and also injecting clients. So I started doing that for a couple months, I would say. And then I was finding that my real job was getting in the way. And with I, you know, if I had a handful of injectable clients on my schedule, I was like, oh, I actually have to go to work today too. And you know, it was just a decision I had to made, I had to make where I was, I wanted to do, you know, I had to pick. And I was really lucky that I had the support of my husband because once, like again, like I said, the position that I had with the company that I had was extremely, extremely lucrative and easy and all the things, I checked all the boxes, but here I am trying, you know, I said I'm going to leave and we're going to, I'm going to go on this journey and I don't know what it's going to look like, but. And he, I don't know that he's pretty brave for being on board. And so that's kind of how this, this started. I got to the point where I realized I couldn't do it alone because it was just me. You know, I was the, I was booking the appointments, I was running my social media, I was trying to, you know, get a website up and running. I was marketing, I was ordering product, I was doing pos, I was doing all of the things and I sort of lost my sense of balance with my life, my life in general, because I went into this feeling like I refuse to fail. Like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm going to do this and it's going to work. Period. End of story. There is zero room for failure. Just more of a pride thing. Honestly. It wasn't even like a financial thing. It was more of just like, if this is something that I'm going to commit myself to doing, it's going to work. So I put my everything into trying to be all of all of the things and found that I really didn't know how to balance. I really had a hard time giving up the control of, you know, bringing on people. Am I bringing on the right people? Are they going to do the things the way I would do them? Are they going to, you know, what if. What if I hire another injector and the patient is unhappy because they've been seeing me, and then what if I potentially lose them? And, you know, it was very scary, but it was eventually something that I had to do. Actually, at a certain point, I stepped away from my. My own business and decided that because I'm having such a hard time balancing, you know, my work life, my work in life, you know, things at home and family, I actually worked. I took a position within a plastic surgery group. And did, you know, I was like, maybe I just need to clock in, clock out. That way I can check the box of doing what I love is injecting, but I don't have to do the back end of it. I don't have to manage, you know, booking my appointments and ordering my products and all the things. But I realized within less than a year that that wasn't it. I was not happy. I was like. And not to say that they didn't, you know, run. We ran our businesses. And the way I like to put it is that we have very different business models. And that's okay. It's just. It didn't fit me. So I decided to go back, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go to do my own business again, and I'm just gonna really try to balance it. So, having said that, it's. It's. It's always been a challenge, but that's when, you know, I had to kind of release the reins and hire, you know, and hire the right people and make sure that whether they're talking to me or somebody else or the injector, if they're seeing me to get their injections or somebody else, they are going to have the same seamless experience. So that was really, really important to me so that it took some time for me to get comfortable with it. But, you know, now I'm at the point where it's fabulous because we've cultivated an amazing team. And I feel so confident in all of the team members that regardless of who is the. At the forefront of KISS aesthetics, they are creating that experience the same way I would. So that takes time and a lot of training and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. But it, you know, it's. It's all about finding the right people.
- [11:01]
Ricky Shockley
I think that's one of the things that's actually really cool about this industry. And I always say this, even, like, with my business. As a marketing person, you got into this because you like doing what you like doing, and the business is the part that you had to figure out and delegating, and you actually care about your patients and the people that you serve. So that gives you this little bit of hesitation when it comes to delegating and trying to figure out how to connect the dots to actually grow a business.
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Kim Burke
Yeah.
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Ricky Shockley
But I love that the heart of, like, serving your patients and your clients is at the core of that, and I think that's a common thread for a lot of people. You know, a lot of people started out the way that you started. This wasn't on my list of kind of questions or topics, but I really. I really like this topic. Kind of branch off when you decide, because there are a lot of people that are in that situation. They might be pretty successful, they might be doing around, you know, a million dollars a year in business, but they're the only injector, and they're very hesitant. They don't really know what the next step is to bring on other people that are going to provide the same level of care and service. So how did you go thinking about and planning when it came to delegation and how much of it is hiring the right people and. Or having the right processes for making sure those people do things the way that you want them done.
- [12:03]
Kim Burke
Yeah. Good question. Once again, my business model is a little bit different than most because when you talk to people, people will always say, oh, my God, don't hire friends. Do not hire friends. That's the worst thing you can do. So the first person I hired was my best friend. She is a CPA by trade. And she asked me, you know, who's. Who's doing your book? Like, who's handling the financials? And I was like, what do you mean? I keep all my receipts. I'm super organized. And she's like, there's a little more to this. So I Brought her on very part time. And I also brought on another friend of mine to kind of help me with the back end. Phone calls, bookings, websites, social media kind of things. And that was extremely helpful, obviously, and they're still with me to this day. I also needed another injector. Like, I specifically remember getting the phone call. I was on vacation and my girlfriend, who was my employee, said, you have 35 people on your wait list. Like, this is not, this isn't realistic. You're going to lose people, they're going to drop off because they're gonna, they're gonna, they're not gonna wait. You know, you need to, you need to hire somebody in order to accommodate these people. And I was like, oh, crap. Yeah, you know, so I actually, the first injector that I hired was. She was one of my patients. So I, you know, everybody on our team, there seems to be some sort of personal connection there. A lot of our people are not just randoms off the street that because they sent a resume. It's either I've known you personally, you were a cl, you're a friend of a friend, or you came, you know, very highly recommended by someone else who works within the practice. We very rarely just hire cold, I would say, and that has helped us a lot. I had my first injector that I hired. Her name's Ashley. She's still with us today. And this girl is a hustler. She, you know, has. Was the kind of girl that since she was 16, had three jobs and that's all she knew. She, you know, when I first brought her on board, it was observing and training and she worked nights at the hospital. And she would shadow me all day long, go straight to the hospital, work a night shift, maybe go home and sleep a couple hours and then come back the next day. Like crazy. Work ethic, you know, and she just proved to me that she wants this and she's making it a priority. And she was driven and motivated and hungry. And those are the things that we look for when we're hiring. You know, skill we can train. I'm not worried necessarily about that. You know, Ashley is a trainer for one of the companies to, for the threads. I trained for three companies for the pharmaceutical companies. Like skills we got you personality, drive, motivation, hustle, hunger. Those are things and, you know, just the charisma, those are things that you can't teach. So those are the things that we look for when we hire. Even if it's somebody, you know, the front desk, injector, esthetician, back office. Those are things that make a good practice exceptional.
- [15:35]
Ricky Shockley
That makes complete sense. So you're the things that you can't train for. Those are the priorities in terms of hiring. These are the things that you have to have. The intangibles that are just at this point, they're inherent. You either have them or you don't. And we can train in terms of the skill development.
- [15:48]
Kim Burke
Yep.
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Ricky Shockley
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And then when you're, when it comes to hiring friends or people that you know, at least through some sort of connection, one of the biggest challenges when it comes to growing your business is making sure that you're making good hiring decisions and that you're, you have people that have those intangibles that have good work ethic and follow through and, and good attitude.
- [16:05]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
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Ricky Shockley
And it's a little hard to guarantee that when you're hiring cold. So if you have some sort of familiarity with the people that you're hiring, you can kind of check that box.
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Kim Burke
Yeah.
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Ricky Shockley
So that makes sense. I think that, I think that's a really good strategy. So when it comes to being a good injector and developing the skill set side, obviously that's something that you took very seriously to get to the point where you are as an injector trainer. How did you go about developing your skill set and why was that important to you?
- [16:31]
Kim Burke
So one of the things that has always been important to me is education. I feel like nobody will ever fault me by learning. So I just kind of took that and ran with it. You know, I, I, of course, you know, we all started somewhere. So I took one injection course. And to be honest with you, the inject, the first injection course I took was a nightmare. It was a huge group of people. It was in like a hotel. It was one instructor. And honestly, I think I left there more confused than when I came. And that was a very notable experience for me because in my head I said, you know, what if and when I get to the point where I feel like I'm skilled at this craft enough to train others, I know exactly what not to do. Because that didn't feel good. I didn't like it. It wasn't a good learning environment. It was expensive, it was very little hands on. It felt cold. It was, it was all the things that I wouldn't as a student. So having said that, when we do, we, we offer injectable training. We do group trainings. We have, we have like a level one and a level two, and we also offer private Trainings and shadow days. And the biggest thing that I make sure of is our small class size. I want it to be intimate. I want people to have a lot of hands on. I want them to get to know me and they can reach out to me if they have any questions afterwards. You know, the biggest question is, you know, they always want, they always want to know what to do next and education. I just tell them, invest in yourself. Nobody will ever fault you for investing in yourself. And it just proves that you are serious about this industry that you have. You know, these courses are expensive, let's be real. And the fact that you've taken your own money to, in your own time and didn't just put it on your employer, as if they'll just train me, they'll show me what to do. The fact that they've taken that initiative is huge. So that's something I always look for when, when hiring, we typically tend to hire from our group injective, injectable trainings because it just, you know, we, we get a great pool of potential applicants. I get to know them, they get to know me and the practice and like, what we, how we do things, and it becomes very natural. So, you know, we typically always have like a large stack of resumes on file that we can pull from when we're looking to hire that right person. So that, that in itself is amazing. And I, and I have been lucky enough to, you know, help others within the Chicagoland area. You know, people will reach out to me. They're like, oh my God, I need an injector, please. Do you have anybody send them my way? And I'm like, dig through my resumes. I'm like, she lives near you, she lives near you. You know, give her a call, all that. But that's extremely helpful. Having that pool to kind of choose from. That helps. And then I can put a name to the face and I can see they almost don't realize it, but it's like, almost like a pseudo interview.
- [19:53]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah.
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Kim Burke
You know, an unofficial.
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Ricky Shockley
And then you become a matchmaker. Yeah, exactly.
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Kim Burke
Because I'm watching how they interact. I'm watching to see if they're taking the initiative to be the first one. Are they sitting there quiet and completely meek and doesn't know how to have a conversation? Or are they charismatic and smiling and like really trying and motivated? So that, that's, that's really helpful.
- [20:14]
Ricky Shockley
You mentioned earlier, like, that there's a big difference in terms of the success of your business from being good to being great. I don't remember what context that came up in originally in the conversation, but I think that's in this business and I think most businesses you're not really winning as a med spa because you're doing something that's super innovative that nobody else is doing. You're doing, you're winning because you're doing it a little bit better than everybody else. So I think the same thing is true with injectors. So how do you make sure that the injectors that work for you continue to stay educated, that they continue to be top tier providers that actually know what they're doing, you know, at a superior level?
- [20:48]
Kim Burke
Yeah, sure. So we offer, you know, we're actually being, we're still small business. We have about 17 employees between our two locations and we, you know, I always find it interesting when we go to conferences and things like that over all over the country when I go to these management and leadership or business track kind of sessions and they talk about benefits and what sorts of things do you do to keep your staff happy or to retain your current staff. And I really feel like it's interesting because we have set up our business so that, you know, we are able to offer things like health Insurance, Vision, Dental, 401K, CME Money and those things. You know, that's the reality is, is people need insurance. You know, people want that allowance of this industry is growing and changing every day and if you're not at the forefront of it, somebody else is and clients are educated. Social media is in your face. People ask for treatments by product. They're like, oh, I want such and such in my lips and I need 20 units right here. Even though medicine, right at the end of the day we are practicing medicine and these are prescription drugs and it doesn't necessarily work like that. But this industry is unique in that way where they will request and demand certain products based off of the marketing of that company. So it's, it's important for me to make sure our providers are trained and up. They are at the forefront of, you know, the changes within the industry to keep up. Because our clients, they know what they want. They, they're, they're educated for the most part. And you know, we have to be the one to say, actually I see what you're saying. But the pro, the, the result that you're looking for is going to be better achieved with product X over the product that you're requesting. You know, here's why, you know, and by then, honestly they don't, they are usually 100% receptive to that. Very rarely do we get pushback when somebody says I want this over this. It's honestly a non issue. We don't necessarily even have that conversation in the, in the treatment room. You know, I just say, okay, yep, I know what you're thinking and this is what we're going to do and this is how we're going to do it. And they're like, sounds good. And so that's not even. And I think being educated as to using the right product, the right placement, the rheology of it, the duration of how long they can expect the, these treatments to last, just, just educating them, you know, that that is, that's huge.
- [23:33]
Ricky Shockley
This episode is brought to you by Med Spa Magic Marketing, my agency. We help Med spas and aesthetics practices grow with more effective marketing strategies. And I know that's a vague phrase, right? It's a vague claim. So I have an offer for you. I offer this to any new prospects if you're interested in exploring any of them. Another marketing option, a new agency or, or just getting into Facebook, Instagram, Google Ads for the first time. I'd love to show you why we're different, what we're doing for clients. And we can do that via a one and a half hour planning session where I'll outline a specific marketing plan and I'll give you all of the blueprints that we would implement if we were to do business together. Now you can take that, use that on your own, hire someone else to help you execute it or work with us. We really don't hold anything back on that strategy call. And I think you'll have a lot of confidence in how you manage your marketing investment moving forward. Understanding some of the nuances that can help you implement more effective marketing strategies for your business. So if you want to do that, you can go to medspamagicmarketing.com in terms of. You mentioned one of your first injectors still with you today in terms of retention. And the challenges that come around come with retaining team members, especially when people are wanting to start their own things. There's a lot of competition. People are always looking for specific things in terms of pay structure. How do you create stickiness knowing that your injectors are ultimately, they're the forefront of the client relationship. So how do you create stickiness so that those people want to stay with you?
- [24:55]
Kim Burke
Yeah, that's a great question and it's something that I don't want to say. I, I, it's, it's definitely in my brain at the forefront of my brain every day is that, you know, despite having contracts and employment agreements and all of the things, especially now with the new ftc, you know, coming September, the non compete, which potentially may, you know, be become a thing, I try really hard in order to create that environment where people don't want to leave, they are comfortable, they like it, and it's the simple things that, you know, I, I originally was trying to read too much into it and be, you know, running a business and managing people was very scary to me because I'm clinical, I don't have that background. And so when there was an issue, you know, in the, within the staff or somebody wanted to quit or you know, that there was problems, I would clam up because I was like, oh, I don't know how to, I don't know how to navigate this. Like give like I can handle, you know, a patient complication, a crappy review, I can handle, you know, a somebody upset. But when there's a problem with an employee, that's not my jam and I don't want any part of it. So I kind of had to learn the hard way and say, you know what? As a business owner and a leader, these are things that, these are skills that I need to learn and I need to feel comfortable with that. So having said that, you know, I, and of course I'm never, I never stop learning. So I don't want it to be like, oh, I don't care so much about the injectable, you know, education because of course that is still extremely important to me. But you know, I had, I had immersed myself so heavily in the clinical side of it and learning the rheology and how products work and education that what I didn't feel comfortable with was like I said, the managing of people and so I had to shift. So in, I would say in 2024, I kind of made.
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Ricky Shockley
And this.
- [27:15]
Kim Burke
I still. Who talks about their New Year's resolutions in damn near July, I still, because I'm holding myself accountable to it, is that in 2024, you know, I made a commitment to myself and to my team that I was going to be a better leader. I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know what it necessarily entailed, but I was going to figure it out and that my team is important to me and they trust me and I need to deliver on my end. So myself, my practice manager and Ashley, my lead injector, we have six or seven injectors right now. So she's Our lead injector. So we all took a leadership course. It was like management and leadership. It was through a Dale Carnegie class. It was their platform, and I highly recommend it. We learned a lot, but it just gave me the tools to feel more comfortable in order to manage and navigate the day in, day out behind the scenes of how do you run a successful team? And that, like I said before, it's the things that are so simple. Like, I was making it way more complicated than it needed to be. You know, just making people feel heard, right? Instead of saying, you need to do this, you need to do that. It's more of a conversation. Let's talk about this. Tell me why. Like more of asking a question. Tell me why you did X, Y and Z. You know, what, do you think that that was the right thing or do you think it should you. It should have been handled another way, you know, by. By letting them come up with the idea on their own, as opposed to somebody saying, you know, you do this, or, here's our next project. Go. It is a conversation. It is. Listen, I'm one brain, I have one brain. And we have a team of 17 people and 17 brains are going to come up with more ideas that are creative and no idea is a bad idea. This is a collaboration. We'll try it. I'm open to anything. I'm open to suggestions. It's not like my idea is the only idea. And this is what we're doing. We work as a team. Every other week we do a team meeting and we discuss our goals and what our new initiatives are going to be. And it's not always driven by me, you know, because others on the team have fabulous ideas and I love to hear it.
- [29:41]
Ricky Shockley
Three words you use there that I loved. And I think this is a really good mindset for people. Like you said, there are so many people that get into the space that they've got the medical side training, they feel comfortable and confident with that. They start a business and they kind of just hope that they're going to figure it out. And maybe a lot of people listening to this, maybe you figured it out enough to get to the point where you are. But I think for anybody taking a look at inside critically and saying, how do I get to the next level if I want to attain something bigger than what I have now, some of that's going to come down to developing those leadership skills. So I really like some of the words you use there. Team collaboration. So if people that work for you feel like they're on A team, and it's a collaborative work environment. They're probably going to have a lot better feeling when they come into the office at the start of the day, when they check out at the end of the day, as a. As opposed to just feeling like they're a pawn or they're just being told what to do. So I really like those two words. Thinking of it as a team and always having a collaborative mindset.
- [30:30]
Kim Burke
Yeah. I mean, getting back to the question about retention. How do you keep people there? And that's. That. That's exactly it. You know, it's making them feel empowered that they have a voice and that they're being heard and that I'm interested in them, that I know about them, what I know, what's going on in their life. It's about having just simple touch points. And, you know, one of the things that I also learned was, you know, I tried really hard to constantly give, you know, positive reinforcement, but I found myself utilizing the same. The same term, like, I appreciate you so much. You're amazing. But then that loses value. Right.
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Ricky Shockley
You.
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Kim Burke
If I'm doing. If I'm saying those same things like, you're the best, I appreciate it. I value so much. But I'm saying it to everybody every day.
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Ricky Shockley
I think about this exact thing. That's why I'm laughing.
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Kim Burke
That doesn't hold weight. Right. So. But to me, I'm checking the box. I'm checking my box because I'm giving them positive feedback. But to them, it's like, cool, thanks. You know, so I've learned to kind of adjust the way I'm giving feedback, being more specific. Specific by saying, you know what? The fact that you got here early today shows me that you're prompt, you're taking initiative, and I really, really appreciate that. That's it.
- [32:00]
Ricky Shockley
I love that.
- [32:01]
Kim Burke
Just being specific as opposed to be like, oh, hey, oh, my God, you're doing a great job. Thanks so much.
- [32:07]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah, it's kind of interesting because I do feel like there are levels to this. So we try to do that too. Like, we have a core value sheet, and when somebody does something on our team, we try to point out what they did in terms of living up to a core value. Hey, this is awesome. Good job being resourceful today with this one thing, or great job following the golden rule with how we dealt with that interaction with a client. So trying to find specifics, But I think there's some people listening to this that it would at least be a good step if they did walk around the Office and said, great job. I appreciate you, because I don't think that's how everybody treats their team. So I think at least. At least as an intermediate step, that might be a good place to start. And then I love that, though, it's trying to figure out when you're giving feedback, how to make it specific so that you're showing them why you value what you appreciate, the specific things that they're doing to help, you know, the business succeed, and things that you specifically appreciate. That was great.
- [32:54]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
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Ricky Shockley
Great little tips and takeaways there. So.
- [32:56]
Kim Burke
And another thing that I just actually implemented, which I think was really, really helpful, was an exit interview. And, you know, it was one of my 3:00am thoughts, because, you know, being a business owner entrepreneur, we never sleep. And if we're sleeping, our brains are still going.
- [33:13]
Ricky Shockley
And, you know, that's the worst part.
- [33:14]
Kim Burke
Yeah, I was just laying in bed and I was like, you know what? I really need to have that exit interview because it's. I need that constructive feedback for me. You know, I need to know, like, I kind of wait until the dust settles a little bit where it's not, like, uncomfortable or, you know, I give where I find that. You know, what if they've moved on, we've moved on. Everybody's good, we're happy, and I, you know, we'll reach out and I'll just be like, hey, you know, listen, like, I see that, you know, you've moved on. We're super happy for you. Things are going great for us. But I just want to touch base with you to see, like, what you. What you liked here, what. Where we missed the mark, what I can do better in the future. Like, what are some things, like, help me, you know, I want to be better. So what a. And I'm like. And be honest with me. Don't sugarcoat it. It's okay. Like, this is a safe space, you know, like, you're no longer our employee, and you don't have to filter what you're saying to me.
- [34:14]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah.
- [34:15]
Kim Burke
And that, I think, has been a huge opportunity for me to learn.
- [34:21]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah, I love that. So exit interview is a great little takeaway there, too. You said something earlier, and I wanted to make a note and go back to this because I think this is interesting and this is something we always think about on the marketing side of the equation. You mentioned that a lot of people totally switching gears here for the listeners. So for switching gears. But I had this note, and I didn't want to miss it. You mentioned that so many People come into the office and they ask for a specific product. Like they don't come in going, you know, I've been thinking about getting something. What do you recommend? You have so many people that come in, 20 units of disport right here. Do whatever you're going to do here. First of all, what is generally the backstory with those patients? Are they coming from somewhere? Did they move to the area and they were getting services somewhere else? So they're new to you, Are they switching providers? What is generally the, like the origin?
- [35:05]
Kim Burke
Yeah, well, I think there's, I think there's two kinds. I think they're the, the younger ones tend to be like, my girlfriend got their lips done and she had Product X in her lips and it looks good, so that's what I want. And then like I said, we have that conversation of, okay, well let's talk about your goals and what you're thinking and about your lip shape and your structure and what we're trying to achieve. And then I choose the product that's best suited for, you know, your goals and based off of my recommendations. So there's that. And then the other one is if, yeah, let's say they are new to the area, they recently moved and they are coming to us for the first time, I will listen to them. So if they say, if they have been around the block and they say, you know what, I just moved to the area, I used to see a provider in Virginia and I know I got this many units, my frontalis, this many in my glabella, this many micros. I loved it. It worked great, perfect. I'm like, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. You know what I mean? Like, there's really no sense of me trying to say, like, if they're happy, why am I going to mess with that? So, you know, if I see, if I feel like the treatment is within reason, right. So I tend to be a little bit conservative with my talks. I always like to have room to move. I will under treat them initially at that very first visit and I tell them that, that, you know, I'm conservative. I want the opportunity for if in that two week time period you feel like you need something tweaked or adjusted, I don't want you to come back at two weeks and say, I'm frozen, I'm stiff, I hate this. Make it go, make it go away and there's nothing I can do. You know, some people like to be frozen and that's fine, but it takes time to figure that out. Right. Versus some people like to have a little bit of movement and they just want to look softer. And a lot of times people are nervous. They don't know what they want, they don't know what they like, and they're, they appreciate when I say, you know what, I'm going to base off what I'm seeing, how many units you need, and I'm going to dial it back a little because I usually say about by a third because I want that opportunity. If in two weeks I have room to move, I can add more. It takes two seconds. It's no big deal. We document it in your chart, we figure out what your recipe is, and based off of that, if that works for you, beautiful. Boom, boom, boom. We see you every three to four months and it's in and out. It's no big deal. You know, and they, they really, I see them usually go, okay, thank you. That makes me feel so much better. And then also too, I think that that says something about us as providers that, you know, yes, obviously this is a business and we're here to, to make a profit, but I'm not looking to just, you know, get the most money out of your pocket at that particular visit. I really want you to be happy, period. End of story. Because there's no way to, I mean, if you piss someone off at their first Botox visit or disport visit, you'll never see them again. You know, like, they will move on.
- [38:20]
Ricky Shockley
So that, that is an outstanding insight and I love that because so many times we talk about in this space and you see so much advice about how to cross sell and upsell and all these sorts of things. But ultimately, this is a business that's built on trust. And you're setting now the precedent from the initial visit that you're a trustworthy provider. You actually have their best interest at heart. You're not there to sell them something they don't need just so you can make a buck.
- [38:43]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
- [38:44]
Ricky Shockley
So one little simple thing is probably creating stickiness, better patient retention, higher trusts, better reviews. That one little decision, I think is leading to a waterfall of benefits for both the patient and the business.
- [38:57]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
- [38:58]
Ricky Shockley
And sometimes when you're aligning your business strategy with what's best for the patient, ultimately it does pay off for your business. So I think there's a good alignment in our system, right in our capitalist system to, to be doing the right thing for people. So that's the first time I've heard that, but I love that, hey, we're going to Come up with the treatment if this is my guess of what the ideal thing is to do. But I'm going to dial it back 25, 30% of what I think the ideal thing is to do. Right. You have a financial incentive to not do that. So you're building so much trust with that, with that decision though, initially, and ultimately, this is not like I have a new patient in the door. Let me see what I can milk them for. It's. Let me do a really good job, make this person happy. And I hope they're here for five years because. Because I'm providing them with a great patient experience and I'm actually doing what's best for them.
- [39:41]
Kim Burke
Yeah, exactly. And sometimes it feels kind of like a, like a short term loss. Right. Like in the short term, am I losing, am I, you know, deterring a patient from getting a treatment, which I, I hear people talk about all the time. They're like, yeah, she actually talked me out of that treatment. I mean, I've had people come in for Kybella and they're like, yeah, I'm going on a girls trip to Nashville in three days, but I want Kybella. I'm like, let's not do that. You know, I'm like, let's get you on the schedule for when you get back. And like, they will leave my office and there's no transactions and I. And it's a loss for me. Right. I. I had an appointment time. You know, they came in, they were ready to pay for a treatment. But I'm like, you're gonna hate me. Like, you really are gonna hate me. And I don't feel right about sending you on a bachelorette party trip to Nashville with, with a bullfrog neck. I just don't, you know. And so it is, like I said, sometimes it feels like a short term loss, but in the end it's a long term gain. At least that's the hope.
- [40:43]
Ricky Shockley
I, a million percent believe that to be true. This is a business that's reliant on retention. Like your success or failure of your business ultimately relies on your ability to make your clients happy.
- [40:53]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
- [40:53]
Ricky Shockley
And to do a good job. Yeah, right. If you're, you could get, you could have a flood of new patients every week. And if they come in and this receptionist was mean and the wait time was too long and the injector stuck dunk and what they were doing and they just tried to sell you a bunch of stuff you didn't need, then your business is going to fail because there's only so many patients that you could possibly bring through that door.
- [41:10]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
- [41:11]
Ricky Shockley
And at some point you're going to run out of people that you didn't, not even just that you didn't make happy, but that you didn't thrill with the experience. Like it wasn't a top notch experience for sure. So I think that's so important. And then it does open the door up to when you actually do have a recommendation. Let's say it's a month from now, a year from now, and you have a recommendation. Hey, we've been doing this. I've got this new thing. It's actually really cool. I think you'd benefit from this other thing that we can do. Yeah, they're going to trust you and they're much more likely to take that seriously as opposed to if the first visit was trying to see what you could milk them from. Now they've got their guard up and they're. Every single time they come in, they're just making sure they've got the no button ready.
- [41:45]
Kim Burke
Yeah, yeah. Very true.
- [41:47]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah. I think that's so many things in life, right. It's like we're so focused on, on the short term benefit that we do it at the expense of what's good for us or the patient or just the general long term play here. So I think that's an outstanding insight.
- [42:00]
Kim Burke
Exactly.
- [42:01]
Ricky Shockley
So, so in terms of the business growth, you started as a small solo provider, as a, as a side hustle, how did you grow it to the point where it is today? What were some of the critical steps or the learning lessons or the key things that you did to help level the business up to get it to the point where it is today?
- [42:17]
Kim Burke
Yeah, number one, staying educated. I immersed myself. I mean, anything that I, I was so hungry to learn that, you know, I made it known to all of the reps. I was googling every conference I could attend because I just figured the more I know as a provider, the more educated I can be, the more marketable I am. And I would put that out there. You know, every time I would be at a conference, it would go on social media. And that I'm learning that I'm growing, that I'm, you know, trying to be the best, best provider in aesthetics that I can be. And social media, you know, it's, It's a catch 22. I love it and hate it at the same time. It, it's amazing because you could, there's such a large reach and it's essentially free, but it's extremely time Consuming and you can get stuck in the wormhole very easily and get caught up in keeping up with the Joneses and what everyone else is doing. So it's, it's, that is tricky. But I will say initially, when I first started I was extremely consistent with posting on social media and I was with posting and with the types of posts, you know, just before and afters, before and after, before and afters. And they were just in your face and so people, you know, really didn't they, they, I mean unless they, you know, unfollowed me, it was just like they were, I was at the front of the mind. So I think social media definitely when I first started was huge. Now we focus more. I would, I would say it's like marketing goes. We, it's organic. You know, as much as, as I know you're a marketing firm and you have all of these amazing tools. The, the growth, the growth of our business. When I say our business, like even though it's, it's me, I solely own it. I don't, we don't have any partners, we don't have any, you know, investors. It's me. But I, when I say we as a business, it's because I don't consider myself like without them, I'm nothing. So when we market, it's, it's the organic, it's the referrals, it's the word of mouth and it's Instagram. It's, I'll say Instagram, but I mean social media and it is Google. Those are the majority. It's, you know, when people write in, you know, we have them fill out new paper, new patient paperwork, it's that those are the three. It's either a friend, Google, social media.
- [44:53]
Ricky Shockley
And I think even in the, in the marketing realm, all you're doing is fuel to the fire of those things. So even as like a marketing provider, all we would be doing is like you're putting fuel on the fire of social with paid by adding paid reach and some strategies to close leads. Or with Google there's an extra placement called Google Ads. But ultimately at the end of the day it is like organic. Word of mouth referrals are the best way to grow your business. And if you've got good patient retention, you're going to be successful because it's only going to go in one direction. If you're retaining patients, it's only going to go in one direction. The problem I see is people thinking that marketing is going to be like a band aid or it's going to solve all of the problems that are in their business. And it's not like you can't spend money on marketing and fix a bad business. I think that's a David Ogilvy quote that I just messed up. But ultimately, doing a good job for your clients, being able to retain patients is what's going to make you successful. And I think sometimes people get so caught up in the shiny thing or the easy thing to do that they don't want to take a look at what they're actually doing with patient experience, with educating their providers, with growing a team and how they treat people, with managing their financials that, that they miss the things that are actually going to make or break their business success. I can even see in the podcast episodes, we've done episodes on financial planning. My man. This is so important. Like, this is way more important than worrying about marketing because if you don't have a sound financial plan, you're going to be screwed. If you don't understand how to manage your money and you're drowning in hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of machine debt, you don't have any patience. You're just setting yourself up for failure. But it doesn't sound fun. So people don't listen to those episodes as much as they listen to the episode is like the top Facebook ads strategies that are trending for 2024. So again, I've said it a million times on this podcast, but that's another reminder to look at this the way that you run your business, the fundamental elements of running a business, operations, financial management and planning, how you treat your team. And you're going to be in much better place patient care than you would if you worry about the shiny object in the room.
- [46:41]
Kim Burke
Yeah, that's kind of been our, our motto per se. Our mantra for 2024 is that we're going deeper, not wider. We are not necessarily trying to, to grow our, our team. We are figuring out what. Who's really good at what and putting them in the position so that they can just soar and shine. That that's, you know, and we're, you know, the device companies hate me this year because I'm like, we're not buying a device in 2024. Sorry. We're not like, you know, especially now it's the end of Q2, so I'm getting, you know, blow up, up through my email and my, oh, hey, how are you? I'm like, oh, geez. And I'm just, I'm just upfront with that. You know, I'm like, listen, I appreciate. I know sales is tough. I appreciate what you're doing. It's the end of Q2. Hate to burst your bubble. We're not buying a device in 2024. You know, I'm just like, don't waste your time. I'm, you know where we're at. And they appreciate that, you know.
- [47:47]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah, they don't. I know this wasn't on our agenda, but this is another topic that has come up a lot. One of the things that I see with the practices that are struggling the most is they're so overwhelmed by debt, and in large part, it's machine debt. So they don't have enough patience. And they've been sold to kind of a bill of goods by the device manufacturers, and they've got hundreds of thousands, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of dusty machines sitting in the back room. And they're in the situation where, like, the owner can't take home a paycheck. They're struggling to make ends meet, they're struggling to make payroll. And when we look at the culprits, sometimes it's rent, sometimes it's just not having an efficient team. But the one thing that seems to be a glaring common thread are those device payments. How have you gone about making decisions with device payments, debt financing, things like that?
- [48:31]
Kim Burke
So initially, I would say we ran a really lean canvas, meaning that, you know, when it was just me, the overhead was very minimal. Right? I mean, I didn't take a paycheck for years. I was initially in our first location. It was a salon suite. I was renting a room. Overhead was low. I was buying product. As you know, I could see my schedule start to fill up. I didn't, like, place this huge, gigantic order. We didn't offer skincare. We had zero devices. It was me, I. And I had no desire to run the devices and learn them. I just wanted to inject. So, like I said, it was a very lean canvas. There wasn't a whole lot of overhead. And then as things started to grow and progress, I was hearing feedback from my patients where they would be like, oh, I just went down the street and had my laser. But I come to you for injectables, and I'm like, I don't like that. I don't like that you're going down the street, because the chances of you going down the street, like, they offer tox, they offer filler. You know, like, there's a chance that I could lose you, you know, But I am not offering you things to help with your skin. You know, I. I can't get rid of your brown spots with my. With my tox. I can't get rid of your laxity and, you know, build your collagen with. Well, I can, I guess, with Sculptra, but it's. It's just different. And so I was starting to see the void of I don't want to risk losing people. And so I was open for years without any devices, and we slowly started bringing skin care, which great, fine, retail skin care is, you know, is. People need it. But I. It wasn't. But it wasn't priority to me. It was. I was all about injecting. And then once we purchase our first device, I needed to be sure that I had somebody capable and competent to run it, you know, because I know nothing about Lace. I knew nothing about Lacey lasers at that point. I was like, this is. I want somebody who will be able to. I'll buy the machine, but they need to run with it. So that. That's what we did is, you know, I didn't know what to buy. I hired an esthetician who was my friend at the time. We worked together at the plastic surgery group, and she was. She highly recommended a certain laser, and I was like, cool, let's get it. If you feel like you can run it and sell it and get great results, let's do it. And so that. That's. That's honestly how it started. And, you know, it's challenging, too, with having two locations, because we want to be able to service, we want to be able to do laser at both locations. We want to be able to do RF microneedling at both locations. Well, that means double the devices. So we're at that point now. We have, you know, our devices. We have our, you know, laser hydrafacial and our RF microneedling and skin pen at each of the locations. And we're good. We don't do body contouring. We don't do, you know, coolsculpting M sculpt. We don't do any of that. I just have. I just. I've had those treatments myself, and I'm a little underwhelmed. So I need. In order for us to purchase the device, I need to be able to stand behind it and feel comfortable recommending and saying and show people my results and be like, look at, look at. Okay, let me just show you. This was me in 2013. You know, look at all my pigment and sun damage. And, you know, this is 10, 12 years later. And My skin looks better now than it did when I was, you know, 12 years younger. And it's because I'm doing all of the things so I really had, I really have to believe in something in order to make it work. Like, I, I, I can't in good consciousness recommend a treatment that I know is garbage. And I'm not saying that they're, there's, you know, those things are garbage. I just, it's just not something within our practice right now.
- [52:28]
Ricky Shockley
I think that's a great way to do it. So my key takeaways for the listeners there are is one, you started adding devices that supplemented what you were already doing. So it wasn't like, let me get into something totally different and get like a sculpting machine. It's like, hey, I'm doing like, I'm trying to make your face look the way that you want it to look. I've got this part of it down. Let me think about how I'm going to expand into something that can supplement that. So let's stick to that. Let's make sure that it's a device that we're confident is going to be able to produce a result and that we're going to be able to stand by and let's be conservative with it. So let's not come out of the gate and buy 75 devices we can't afford. You started lean for a good amount of time and then slowly added devices that you were confident in. Did you make sure that those were successful and you were able to sell them? One of the things that I always find is if you can't sell, if you bring on a new device and you can't sell it to your existing patients, you're screwed. Because if the people that already know like and trust you aren't going to buy it from you. Another thing, marketing is not going to fix that problem. Yeah, it means that people are not that interested in the product or service unless maybe your price point is so dirt cheap that they're just buying it because you're the cheapest person in town.
- [53:30]
Kim Burke
Yeah, agree.
- [53:32]
Ricky Shockley
Okay. Any, any thoughts on financing debt? Any. Is there a specific formula you use to manage when it's appropriate to bring a device payment on? How are you okay with having a payment? Do you want it to be a certain percentage? Are you trying to pay them off in a certain window? What does that look like?
- [53:48]
Kim Burke
So once again, I'm very lucky to have a practice manager who is a cpa. And not just any cpa. She's actually A very, very good, reputable and you know, we still, we still have an accountant who handles our corporate taxes and all of that. But every time I meet with him, like I just met with him last week, he's always like, like, you know, you're really lucky because not everyone, people who have an accountant do, they're like, they're not all created the same, you know, so I'm really lucky and in the fact that number one, she's extremely logical and level headed but she, she also keeps me out of jail, meaning that she makes me pay my taxes and she also keeps me in check because I'm more of the emotional one. Like if the rep comes, comes and, and I want, and it's all shiny and glittery and, and looks fun and is, you know, on paper creating these amazing results and I'll like go to her and I'll be like, oh my God, listen, we need to get this device. And here's why. She'll just look at me and she'll be like, we're not doing this. Doesn't make financial sense. And then I'm like, so it's like a mommy, daddy thing. Like sometimes I'll call up like I have to ask daddy, I have to ask, you know, the numbers girl, because she knows the, those numbers inside and out and she knows what we can afford and what we can't afford. And I, I mean, I hate to say it but she honestly understands it more than I do.
- [55:13]
Ricky Shockley
And that was one of your first hires, right? Yeah, this is the one that was.
- [55:16]
Kim Burke
Yeah.
- [55:16]
Ricky Shockley
And yeah, that's really interesting.
- [55:18]
Kim Burke
And so when it usually, you know, we've been lucky enough where, you know, from, from a tax standpoint we pay through the nose, which I guess good for us because that means we're profitable. But it also is, it's, it's, it's very painful. Like I feel like I'm hemorrhaging, you know, to the government. But having said that, you know, she'll be like, you know, I think you're going to be better off. We have, we have the financial means to purchase a device and it will also help you from a tax standpoint. So this year let's, let's try to figure out what device is going to fit, you know, our practice. So that, that's, that's the, that's huge. And like with this year, for example, yeah, we could have a huge tax write off to if we purchase a device, but we're still spending money on something we don't need, you know. Yeah, we could get the, the write off for the tax portion, but like, we don't need it. So, you know, we're, it's just about balancing and you know, all of our devices that we have are paid off, which is probably unusual. I don't know. I don't necessarily have that conversation. So the one that we. So the devices we have, I mean, no, not necessarily.
- [56:45]
Ricky Shockley
The.
- [56:45]
Kim Burke
We finance. All the devices that we purchased, we purchased up front and outright. With the exception of the very first hydrafacial that we, we purchased, we ended up refinancing it over a year, which, whatever, the finance rate was low. And then when we bought our first site on like those are. That was like more than my first house. That was way more than my first house. Like, that was. I was like, what are we doing? This is so ridiculous. But anyway, so we did take out a business loan for that. And at that point the interest rates were really low. And it just got to the point, like, even when I sat down with the accountant and we were here, he was like, yeah, I mean, you could, you could pay it off, you know, if you feel like you need to, but if you don't want to, your interest rate is really low. So it's not a huge deal. So we just, we just kind of looked at what we have, you know, our P L and our financials, and tried to kind of forecast what we're trending to be for the year. And then based off of that, like, we recently just completely paid off our site ton. So that, that's. That was the one that we had a note on for, for some time.
- [57:51]
Ricky Shockley
Bottom line is you're buying things that you can afford. I think a lot of people, when they, when they make a machine purchase, they're buying it in the hopes that they're. That that machine is going to allow them to afford the machine.
- [58:00]
Kim Burke
Yes. And a lot of the companies will pitch it like that. They'll be like, you only need to do X number of treatments and your device is paid off.
- [58:08]
Ricky Shockley
And yeah, there's no plan to get X number of treatments is the problem. And then the thing goes out of style or out of vogue and people don't have I want it anymore. And not only that, one of the.
- [58:16]
Kim Burke
Questions that you have to ask them, which, you know, you learn the hard way, is like, okay, so according to you, what should we be charging for these treatments? And then let's look at the reality of what people are really charging. Because they'll say, oh, you can charge 1500 treatment, and then you look at what people are charging and they're charging like 700, and you're like, wait, what? You know, so you really.
- [58:38]
Ricky Shockley
There goes the math.
- [58:39]
Kim Burke
Yeah. You have to be savvy. You can't, as much as we love our reps and we rely on them, but, like, you can't always trust exactly what we're being told, you know?
- [58:51]
Ricky Shockley
Yeah. You have to do your own analysis. I love that you have someone like that in your corner and that that happened to be one of your first hires. I'd say for people listening to this episode, we did an episode a few episodes ago with Jessica Nunn from Maven Financial Partners. I would go back and listen to that episode because she kind of talks about that you don't want to just have somebody in your corner that at the end of the year tells you how much you owe the irs. You also want someone that is helping you make good financial decisions ahead of time. Yeah. At where is the business right now? Where are we trying to go? Is this a good decision if we're bringing on, you know, an additional investment with like, a new machine or new team members or anything like that? So being ahead of it and actually financially planning instead of just at the end of the year checking your tax bill if it's an important thing to do?
- [59:30]
Kim Burke
Very true, Kim.
- [59:31]
Ricky Shockley
Thank you so much, Kim. I'm put the the links to your practice Kiss aesthetics and also your injector training in the show notes. So anybody that's interested in either one of those resources, make sure that you click those links below in the show notes, whether you're watching on YouTube or any of the platforms. Again, thanks so much for being on the podcast. We hope to see you again soon.
- [59:47]
Kim Burke
Of course. Thank you so much, Ricky. I appreciate it.
- [59:49]
Ricky Shockley
Thanks everyone, for tuning in. This podcast is a production of Med Spa Magic Marketing. If your Med Spa or aesthetic practice is in need of digital marketing services, help with advertising on Facebook, Instagram, Google lead generation, and booking more appointments, please visit Medspamagicmarketing.com.