Full panel: Govs. Kevin Stitt & Matt Meyer on keeping the American dream alive

Summary

Meet the Press – August 2, 2026

Episode: Full panel: Govs. Kevin Stitt & Matt Meyer on keeping the American dream alive

Host: NBC News
Guests: Governor Kevin Stitt (Oklahoma) & Governor Matt Meyer (Delaware)
Moderator: Kristen Welker

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Meet the Press features a dynamic conversation between Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt and Delaware Governor Matt Meyer, focusing on the evolving concept of the American dream. Panelists tackle critical issues facing Americans, including opportunity, homeownership, regulation, education, technology (especially AI), energy policy, and health care. Through shared stories and policy debate, the two governors provide insight into bipartisan approaches and regional philosophies, demonstrating both differences and common ground in their leadership.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining and Preserving the American Dream

• Personal Narratives (02:11, 03:33):
  • Gov. Stitt: Shared his own path from starting a company with $1,000 to becoming governor, emphasizing opportunity and hard work.
    • “Only in our country can you start a company with $1,000 in a computer like I did … Only in America.” (02:11)
  • Gov. Meyer: Detailed his family's immigration story, highlighting America’s history as a refuge—for safety as well as opportunity—and underscoring that many now feel hard work is not enough to succeed.
    • “What we’re seeing now ... is so many people who don’t see that opportunity … if I get up a little earlier and work a little harder, I still don’t have money at the end of the month for rent.” (03:33)

2. Accessibility and Affordability of the American Dream

• Polls Show Waning Faith (04:55):
  • 78% of Americans see the American dream as “out of reach.” Both governors respond with policy solutions aimed at restoring faith, focusing on opportunity rather than promising equal outcomes.
• Homeownership & Regulation (05:15, 06:19):
  • Gov. Stitt: Identifies homeownership as a core wealth-builder, advocates for “supply-side” solutions, and warns about overregulation as a hidden tax.
    • “There’s about a $1.7 trillion regulatory cost to the consumers in America just because of overregulation.” (08:00)
  • Gov. Meyer: Focus on streamlining permitting, reducing soft costs, and leveraging technology for faster, more effective government response.
    • “A third of the cost today in America of building a new home is … dealing with government and soft cost. That’s way too much.” (06:19)
    • “A slow yes is often worse than a fast no.” (10:48)

3. Innovation in Education and Workforce Training

• Learning from Switzerland – Apprenticeships (11:43):
  • Both governors recount a joint trip to Switzerland to study its education and apprenticeship system, advocating a shift away from rigid college-for-all mindsets toward workforce integration.
  • Gov. Stitt:
    • “We put these kids in the right opportunity to succeed … giving them experiences to work in a company, to do an apprenticeship … showing up to work on time, team building, working with others.” (11:43)
  • Gov. Meyer:
    • "They had integrated their educational system with workforce. ... This is about global competitiveness. This is about how America wins the future." (13:42)
• State Actions:
  • Delaware: Gathering employer input; involving businesses in curricula and pathways from middle school onwards. (14:51)
  • Oklahoma: Addressing employer liability concerns, changing laws, and encouraging business partnerships with high schools. (15:27)

4. Technology, AI, and the Changing Workforce

• Opportunities & Fears (18:37, 19:09):
  • Gov. Stitt:
    • Sees AI as a customizable classroom tool to aid teachers and individualize instruction.
    • “AI now can have a customized lesson plan for one student … It’s going to be a tool for teachers to use.” (19:09)
  • Gov. Meyer:
    • Acknowledges AI’s positive life-saving impacts (medical field), but stresses the fears around job loss and the speed of change.
    • “This is happening overnight and it’s very scary. … What we need to do more than anything is prepare a workforce of tomorrow.” (20:12)

5. Infrastructure, Energy, & Permitting Reform

• Data Centers and Local Impact (21:36, 22:12):
  • Gov. Stitt: Praises economic benefits from tech companies in Oklahoma but addresses concerns like water usage and electricity cost by requiring protections for local ratepayers and stricter environmental compliance.
  • Gov. Meyer: Emphasizes protecting local communities, preventing “billionaires” from dominating land use, and ensuring that economic development doesn’t burden residents or degrade the environment.
• Renewable Energy & Federalism (25:51, 26:34):
  • Gov. Meyer: Details Delaware’s struggle for offshore wind and energy independence; expresses frustration with shifting federal policy.
  • Gov. Stitt: Calls for an “all-of-the-above” energy approach, regulatory stability, and limiting federal overreach in state energy decisions.

6. Government Scope and Federalism

• State Autonomy vs. One-Size-Fits-All (29:44, 29:57):
  • Gov. Stitt: Argues for state-level decision-making and experimentation—“laboratories of democracy.”
    • “He’s closer to the citizens of Delaware than I am or somebody in Washington, D.C. ... we know what Oklahoma thinks more than somebody in Washington, D.C.” (29:57)
• Depolarization & Common Goals (30:39):
  • Gov. Meyer: Downplays partisan divisions, highlighting kitchen-table issues that cross the aisle and the dangers of profit-driven media/actors who benefit from discord.

7. Health Care Approaches and Sustainability

• State vs. Federal Roles (32:16, 34:05)
  • Gov. Stitt: Critiques current federal incentives, suggesting more autonomy and responsibility for states in health care funding and delivery.
    • “Let's have a competition, right? That's the laboratories of democracy. Maybe his way is better and I'm going to switch to his way after a few years. Maybe my way is better, right?” (35:16)
  • Gov. Meyer: Argues for universal health care as a moral imperative aligned with American values.
    • "It's inhumane and un-American to say fifth graders who my son goes to school with should not have equal access to health care.” (34:05)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Gov. Stitt: “I don't believe there's any such thing as equal outcomes, but we want equal opportunities for everyone to work hard and chase their American dream.” (02:11)
• Gov. Meyer: “A slow yes is often worse than a fast no. If we're going to take three years to clear your permit, that's like, that's worse than just saying no.” (10:48)
• Gov. Stitt: “In Switzerland, their compulsory education ends as their freshman year of high school. … workforce training is education.” (11:43)
• Gov. Meyer: “They had integrated their educational system with workforce. ... This is about global competitiveness. This is about how America wins the future.” (13:42)
• Gov. Stitt: “We can't be a country that puts our thumb on the scale that says we don't like you because you're rich.” (28:30)
• Gov. Meyer: “Sorry to use the B word again, but there's billionaires making money off our division of getting people angry.” (30:39)
• Gov. Stitt: “Most people in Oklahoma think they just want government out of their lives ... let the free market work and that is the best solution.” (38:41)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:55 – Introduction of Governors and Framing the American Dream Conversation
• 02:11 – Stitt: Personal Story & the American Dream
• 03:33 – Meyer: Immigrant Story and Equity in Opportunity
• 04:55 – 78% Poll on American Dream Accessibility
• 06:19 – Meyer: Streamlining Permitting and Reducing Soft Costs
• 10:48 – “A slow yes is often worse than a fast no.”
• 11:43 – Swiss Apprenticeship Model
• 13:42 – Global Competitiveness in Education
• 18:37 – AI and the Workforce
• 22:12 – Data Centers, Communities & Environmental Protections
• 25:51 – Renewable Energy, State vs. Federal Powers
• 29:57 – States as Laboratories of Democracy
• 32:16 – Approaches to Health Care Funding
• 34:05 – Meyer: Health Care as a Human Right
• 38:41 – Stitt: Lessons Learned as Governor, Limited Government

---

Conclusion: Lessons and Final Thoughts

• Gov. Meyer: Warns of the danger if America can't find common ground and adapt quickly—must address workforce, permitting, health care, and energy for everyone if the American opportunity is to endure. (37:31)
• Gov. Stitt: Emphasizes the value of self-determination and local governance, underscoring citizens’ desire for effective infrastructure, economy, and education without unnecessary government intervention. (38:41)

---

This episode offered not only policy debate but also notable camaraderie and moments of agreement, showing a path toward bipartisan efforts to keep the American dream accessible for future generations.

Transcript

[Empower Advertiser]

Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Maxing is so maxing right now, bro. Get ready for spicy chicken maxing because Carl's Jr. Is saving you big with a 5.99 maxed out double stack, double stack, double stack spicy chicken sandwich. Seriously, just 5.99 double stack spicy chicken. This is unreal value in the bromosphere. The new spicy chicken Max Wallet friendly, Max tasty only at Carl's Jr available for a limited time at participating restaurants. Tax on included. Not valid for use within a combo or in combination with any other offered discount.

[Moderator]

First conversation is on the American dream. And to have that conversation, I want to welcome back to the stage chair Governor Stitt of this great state of Oklahoma. Let's give him a big round of applause. Thank you, Governor. Thank you for having me. And Governor Matt Meyer of Delaware. Hi, Governor. Thank you for being here. Please have a seat. We are so looking forward to these conversations Governor Meyer and I were discussing. I'm a Philly girl, obviously. Governor Meyer from the great state of Delaware. We're Deb. Who is more excited about LeBron James coming to Philadelphia. Well, talk about the American dream. I mean, LeBron James is someone who embodies that. We do want to talk about the American dream and how the people of this country feel about it. And Governor Stitt, I want to start with you. Talk about what the American dream means to you as a governor and how every day when you wake up, you try to help the people of this great state achieve the American dream.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here and this important conversation. And thanks, my good buddy, Governor Meyer for being here with me. You know, I've lived the American dream. Only in our country can you start a company with $1,000 in a computer like I did, and then grow that over the next 20 years to over 1,000 employees and then have a midlife crisis and run for governor and actually according to my wife, and then and actually win and serve your state. Be the governor where your grandparents grew up. Only in America. Everybody that I talk to I'd say, hey, tell me your American dream story. And people will tell me things just like that. Like, hey, I had no idea I grew up over here. And to a single parent or a very, very, you know, I loved how some of the people say I grew up in a middle class home on a good day and was able to accomplish amazing things through our education, through our free markets and all. Millions of people around the world look to America because they know the opportunity and the potential. We don't want to lose that. I don't believe there's any such thing as equal outcomes, but we want equal opportunities for everyone to work hard and chase their American dream.

[Moderator]

Governor Meyer, Governor Stitts talking about everyone having equal opportunity. How do you see the American dream as the governor of Delaware?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Well, 100 years ago, a little over 100 years ago, my grandfather came to this country as a baby. He didn't speak a word of English. He didn't come for economic opportunity. He came because family members of ours were getting killed because they were Jewish in Eastern Europe and came here just for a safe place. And what our family quickly learned, as many other American families have, is that if you put your head down, you work hard, you do the right things, you study and get up a little earlier than everyone else and work a little later, you can buy a house, you can build a bigger house, you can take your kids to amazing restaurants. And it's amazing when you hear the stories. As Governor Stitt has done an amazing job telling stories from across our country, different than my own, but similar in so many ways. I think what we're seeing now across our community in Delaware and across the country, Democrat, Republican, urban, suburban, rural, is so many people who don't see that opportunity, who think that, wait a second, if I get up a little earlier and work a little harder, I still don't have money at the end of the month for rent. I don't have money at the end of the month to put gas in my car. And so that's why what we're doing here is so critical, sitting down, not as Democrats and Republicans, but as Americans to say, how do we get this American dream to truly work for everyone?

[Moderator]

It's such an important point. And in fact, according to our latest NBC News poll, Governor Stitt, 78% of Americans feel as though the American dream is out of reach for them. Why is that and where do you begin to address that and quite frankly, help to restore people's faith in the American Dream?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

I mean, that's a, it's a complicated question. And that's where maybe some of the policy things I believe, you know, I believe we have to keep the free market, make it easier to start businesses, make it easy for opportunities for people. He mentioned homeownership. It's something we're all focused on across the country, is making sure affordability is there. Well, I believe it is a supply side issue. We need to continue to encourage development on housing. We need to continue to encourage the entrepreneurs to meet the needs. And sometimes with overregulation, you can stammy the growth of those type of developments. So that's one of the practical ways that we can do it with homeownership. Obviously, that's one of the greatest wealth builders of the middle class and it's something that we believe in in Oklahoma and America, and that's important.

[Moderator]

Governor Meyer, when you hear that 78%, does it surprise you? Where do you begin, your work? Homeownership? And we're going to talk about that. Where do you think the starting point is for people?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Well, 78% is a high number. But what I've found in my polling, my personal polling and parades and going door to door in Delaware is close to 100% of people want a government that works for them, that actually delivers. And for whatever reason, in this day we live in so many people look at government and instantly think delay and bureaucracy and you're not going to get the right answer quickly. So what we're trying to do, and I know a number of governors here are working very hard on, is how do we use the latest, greatest technologies and innovations? How do we bring people together to work quickly to deliver for people. I'm in my 18 months in office. In those 18 months, we've improved housing affordability, according to realtor.com faster than any other state in the country. We've done so simply by addressing some of what Governor Stitt saying, making it very easy to get permitting. Making a third of the cost today in America of building a new home is not building the home. It's dealing with government and dealing with the soft cost. That's way too much. Every delay we interpret as an increased cost for the people of our state. We're streamlining, we're putting shot clocks on permitting so that everything is expected to take a set amount of time. We're giving private individuals that come who want to do things a single point of contact so stuff gets done.

[Moderator]

Well, let's stay on that point for a moment. I mean, how important is permitting and the permitting process because there's a fine line. On the one hand, you want to speed up development in some areas. On the other hand, yes, you want to make homes, developments more accessible for more people. Where do you fall on that?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Governor SAID well, I mean, to Governor Myers point, things are taking way too long to build. Democrats, Republicans, we all agree on that. Oklahoma is kind of the pipeline capital of the world. And some of the biggest CEOs of the pipeline companies are telling me you're saying, governor, it costs as much to permit a project as it does to actually put the steel in the ground. And I try to explain that to people. I said, think about that. If you, if you, if you are saving your whole life to build your dream home, you go get a loan, you start building your dream home, but then you realize it costs as much to permit as it does to actually build it. Okay, that's what we're doing. That is a hidden tax, hidden cost to the consumer. And back to affordability, there's about a $1.7 trillion regulatory cost to the consumers in America just because of overregulation. And so we've got to address that. And I think governors are uniquely positioned to make these kind of appeals to Congress to say, hey, we've got, we've gotten way too off the, on one side here. The pendulum needs to come back to some more normalcy and some quicker projects.

[Moderator]

Governor Meyer, how do see solving this issue, Is it about going to Washington, trying to get bipartisan solutions?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

I think it starts with our shared values as Americans. Americans want clean air, they want clean water, they want land to be preserved for generations to come. We can't get rid of all permitting so that every project just goes through and people feel like they're being trampled on by the richest of the rich. At the same time, it's really important to that we provide clear pathways, technological pathways that are transparent to everyone so that people know if you're going to work with government, you're not going to get a governor pointing to a federal agency and a federal agency pointing to a local county official. I think a lot of it is us saying in this day and age, with the technology available and with citizens experience with the private sector where they're used to getting immediate responsiveness and transparent responsiveness, we in government need to make sure we're delivering the same.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

And I'll just, I'll jump in real quick. So I got this actually from Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. He had done an executive order. And I was like, I'm not going to let A Democrat beat me on this issue, and in his executive order, which I copied, was if all state permits are not done within 30 days, they're free to the business. And to your point, we're going to make sure that all the rules are followed, that the EPA guidelines, that we have clean water, clean air, our Department of Environmental quality. But we don't want it to sit on some bureaucrat's desk or we don't want a lawsuit. We want to put shot clocks. We want to put parameters. You can't, you can't just tell, tell the business no forever. Right. Just because you don't want this project. We believe in personal property rights, and we want to move these projects along or tell us what we need to fix them.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

One other thing that I know Governor Stitt knows from private sector, and in my experience in the private sector, I believe in, too. And this is our, our philosophy in the way we run our government. A slow yes is often worse than a fast no. If we're going to take three years to clear your permit, that's like, that's worse than just saying no. So we got to make decisions, make decisions quickly and move forward.

[Moderator]

Are you looking into implementing something like Governor Stitton?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Yeah, we already, we already have in some way similar.

[Moderator]

Okay, well, the root of the American dream. And I don't have to tell the two of you, this is education. It really rests in education. Governor Stitt, as you just said, you were a businessman. Now you're governor. What assumptions did you have that once you became governor, you realized you maybe didn't understand the enormity of some of the challenges facing our educational system?

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

You know, and Governor Meyer and I actually took a trip to Switzerland and we went over there really, to look at their education model and their apprenticeship model. And what does that look like and what can we learn from them to bring back to our states? And it was, it was fascinating because we know that with education, we put these kids in the right opportunity to succeed and what is possible. And sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And so giving them these experiences to work in a company, to do an apprenticeship. And over in Switzerland, their compulsory education ends as their freshman year of high school. And then every kid, almost to the T, like 90% of them will actually go sign up and become an apprentice at a company because they believe that workforce training is education. And the best example, I explained back to Oklahomans, I met a girl, she was 19, Meyer, and I met her, and she wanted to be an architect. And so after her freshman year of high school, she signed a contract and they get paid like $1,000,000 a month to go. And she worked for an architecture firm, right. And she learned drafting. So when she graduates after three years of apprenticeship, she actually can have a job. And she has a skill set as a drafter, but that doesn't foreclose her going to become an architect. About 50% of the kids then go on to university and she would become an architect. And so same percentage in the US we've got 50% kids go to college, the other 50% don't. But it's just a different mindset to get them more engaged in the workforce of what's possible to learning. You know, showing up to work on time, team building, working with others. Just so it's just a different mindset over there. I think that's critical that we bring some of that back to the U.S.

[Moderator]

i mean you were on that trip,

[Governor Matt Meyer]

I was on the other side. We did meet that 19 year old architect to be. We also met a 34 year old chief operating officer of a leading plane manufacturer. 34 years old. He had 20 years of experience at the company. Like how's that possible?

[Moderator]

Right?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

He started as an apprentice at 15. By the time he was 23, he was flying around the world running various global operations. They had integrated their educational system with workforce. So you have, you know, here in Delaware you might get a job in ninth or you might, you might be interested in working for a plane manufacturer in 9th, 10th grade, but you're going to spend your free time working at a restaurant making some spare bucks. As a kid I did something called deliver newspapers. I know kids probably don't know what that is anymore, but that's what I did just to get a few. He was working in his expected career field, developing skills that if he chose that path he could continue. And if not, he'd have skills to go what it is. I'm a sixth and seventh grade math teacher. I was really excited when Governor Stitt invited me on this trip to understand an education system. And I learned over there it's less about education and workforce training. This is about global competitiveness. This is about how America wins the future.

[Moderator]

How do you begin to implement that same mentality, that same focus on apprenticeships that you learned in Switzerland, in your state of Delaware? Have you already begun to do so and how challenging is it?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

When I came back, the first thing I did is I sat down groups of employers and I talked to employers about how, what are your workforce Needs not today, in five years, in 10 years and 20 years. And how can we bring you in to our schools even at 7th and 8th grade? How do we get you involved in both what the kids need to learn in the middle and high school levels, what is the curriculum and also what they're doing from the moment they leave the classroom to go out and maybe do some work for you to start on that pathway.

[Moderator]

And how do you see implementing it here in Oklahoma?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, so, so same type of deal. We, I got our, you know, superintendent of education in Tulsa. I brought them on the trip with us. We also brought our career colleges with us and then some of our business community, some of our HR groups. And we had to first realize what the problem was. And we had to, we passed a law to make sure that liability, the employers were worried about liability about a high school kid coming and working at their factory or working at their company. So we changed that by, by law here in Oklahoma to make sure we covered the insurance forum. So that was one piece, but it's just a mindset change. The companies In Switzerland, literally 5% of their workforce, they want to be apprentice. So they're building that pipeline into their, into their, into their, their companies. And it's just a totally different mindset in America. We're we poo poo kids that maybe aren't going to go straight into college, but literally every single person that we met, that's just natural to go for these three year period and actually learn, get an accreditation, learn what you want to do and then you go to university after that. And it's just totally a paradigm shift that we are trying to bring back. And I'm trying to encourage companies to come into those high schools and give these opportunities to young people so they know what's possible.

[Empower Advertiser]

Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking

[Governor Matt Meyer]

advantage of its national red tag sales

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

event going on right now through Sunday, August 2nd. Stop by any of its participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So Whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't

[Governor Matt Meyer]

want to miss the red tag sales

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton Difference at Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity Builder.

[Daniel, Founder of Pretty Litter]

Hi, I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats and cat owners deserve better than any old fashioned litter. That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create Pretty Litter. Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80% less than clay litter. Just one bag lasts up to a month, meaning fewer refills and less scooping. Pretty Litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter.

[Moderator]

Go to prettylitter.com and use code Pandora for 20% off your first order. Are you optimistic, Governor Meyer, that it can be brought back? That there can be in fact a paradigm shift?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

I think we have to, we have to, we have to make sure, I mean, if you talk honestly when you go into our classrooms, are they truly preparing our kids for a world of 2030, 2040 and beyond? The only way to do that is integration with the workforce needs.

[Moderator]

One of the extraordinary components of the workforce today is AI and excitement about the possibilities, but concerns about the challenges and the risks. And this is going to be one of the through lines of all of our conversations today because it touches almost everything. Governor Stitt, how do you make sure that the workforce here in Oklahoma is both embracing AI in a way that's productive and constructive and that jobs aren't lost? Because that's the big fear.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned AI and education. I think that it can really be another tool for these teachers in the classroom. And what I mean by that is if you're a seventh grade teacher and you've got a classroom of seventh graders, we know not everybody's on the same level, whether it's math or reading or science. And so AI now can have a customized lesson plan for one student and maybe they're back in fifth grade math and they can bring them back up and the same thing with science and reading and, and you can literally use that tool to more customize and help that teacher. And then maybe there's a kid that really should be working ahead and that is very difficult for teachers. So I think it's going to be a tool for teachers to use. We're embracing that. We're not shying away from it. We think as far as the state government's concerned, I'VE had an AI leader in every one of my state agencies to champion that, to see how we can implement AI, become more efficient government throughout our, throughout our state.

[Moderator]

Governor Meyer, how do you see it and what are the biggest challenges and concerns you have about it?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

So my wife Lauren, who's here, is an emergency room doctor and to her, I never want to speak for her, but I think she'd say that artificial intelligence today is saving lives. When she sees patients. It's saving lives of people all over the world. And it's going to do more and more of that the faster there's adoption. There's tremendous opportunity and in every industry for more efficiency and more opportunity for the overwhelming majority of Delawareans, the overwhelming majority of Americans, the overwhelming majority of humans. This is very scary times. You have people who for multiple generations have been in careers that are may not be there in five or 10 years. You take something like the Industrial revolution which took 30, 40, 50 years to really transform an economy, the information revolution which took 10, 20, 25 years, this is happening overnight and it's very scary. And what we need to do more than anything is prepare a workforce of tomorrow, make sure that kids and adults who are mid career can use AI as additive, something that enhances their career skills, that increases their salary, doesn't eliminate job opportunities. It takes some regulation and a lot of hard work rolling up our sleeves as Democrats, Republicans, Independents, wherever you live, whatever your party, we're in this together as Americans.

[Moderator]

Well, and Governor Stitt, part of this debate over AI and the American dream and how it all fits together is over data centers. And Oklahoma is a data center hub to some extent. Metta, Google, others are engaged in projects here. And you have some residents and governors are dealing with this all across the country in various ways who are concerned about the ways that those data centers might impact their lives. What do you say to Oklahomans who say is this going to help me? Is it going to hurt me? Is it going to decrease the quality of my life? How would you address those questions?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Well, first off, Google has their, I think first or second largest data center located in Pryor, Oklahoma. And it's been, it's been around since I think they built that, maybe 2010, something like that. Tremendous tax revenue, tremendous benefit for the local community, for the local school districts. It's just they've been a great partner to our state. But you're right, there's a lot of concern. And even my own family and cousins and my parents, is this going to make my electricity bill go up right. If this data center comes in our backyard, what does this do to the water usage? And so those are real concerns that we have to address from a state perspective. And so we passed a ratepayer protection law this year. So none of those costs on new electricity generation for that data center that may be developed in your community is going to be passed on to ratepayers or residential consumers. We also passed a closed loop water system. So it's going to be a little more expensive on the front end for those data centers to develop a project. But we know that they aren't going to be wasting water. That's another concern that we have as Oklahomans. So those two things and then the other thing, to hold the public utilities accountable, I pass behind the meter. And this is a game changer. A lot of states are talking about this, but bring your own power, so to speak. We've got a lot of natural gas. You can create your own electricity by getting your own gas turbines, hooking it up to our natural gas, creating your own electricity for your data center, which also is totally off the grid. So we're trying to balance that. We believe we need more electricity. We just were meeting with the FERC administrator earlier, the chairwoman of ferc, and she's like warning America that if we don't build more electricity with the demand and the way we're growing as a country, this is why permitting reform is so important that we will have rolling blackouts. It's just a fact across the United States. And so we need to have permitting reform to get more of those projects done. I believe Oklahoma's leading on it, but the concerns are real. You're going to have to follow the permitting. You're going to have to follow the clean water, the clean air, all the things that we have in place. But we. Sometimes you have people that are complaining if their ice cream's too cold. Right? Sometimes people are just not in my backyard. But we still believe in personal property rights. If you build a. If you own land and you've got, you follow all the rules, you should be able to build it.

[Moderator]

There are some data centers being planned in Delaware as well. What are the tough questions and tough decisions that you're making around these?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Well, we got to make sure billionaires aren't controlling our economy and aren't controlling local land use. We as government officials need to stand up and represent all the people. Democrats, Republicans, urban, suburban, rural. Make sure we're assuring affordability, make sure we're ensuring economic opportunity, and make sure we're protecting environmental sustainability. I've made very clear, and we're having tremendous success in my first 18 months attracting employers to our state. But I'm very clear, if you're going to come take away our water resources and not replenish them, we don't really want you here. If you're going to come and add a penny to ratepayers power bills, we don't want you here. And if you're going to add noise and other factors to the community that destroy community, we don't want that. Delaware is not a huge place. People come there. People are moving at record rates to our beach counties because it's a quiet, calm, affordable place to live, and we have an important responsibility to preserve that.

[Moderator]

And you talk about renewable energy. How important is that to moving forward, to helping people achieve the American dream? And how do you walk that line? Because the federal government isn't necessarily on board with expanding.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

We have, we import 60% of our, of the power we use in Delaware, one of the highest percentages in the country. We have a 1.7 gigawatt offshore wind project, US wind, in partnership with Maryland. We have been lockstep working together, Governor Moore, in my administration and my predecessor, to move that project forward. The Trump administration has just said no go. And it's something that's directly impacting rates in our state. And we're doing everything we can to, to move it forward. I wish the federal government would listen to Governor Stitt and say, hey, let the states do the states and let us move it forward.

[Moderator]

How do you see the issue of renewable energy and expanding access and working with the federal government on that something?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

I'll, I'll agree with him on one point and I'll make a comment on his billionaire comment. Yes, we need all of the above approach. You need to get government out of these pendulum swings. And the way I explain it to people, I'm like, when, when Obama was in office, he killed the Keystone pipeline. Then Trump brings it back, then Biden kills it. Did everybody in here know? This is, this is crazy. Okay. The Keystone pipeline was going to come into Cushing, Oklahoma from Canada. Did you know there's already two pipelines from Canada into Cushing, Oklahoma? Cushing, Oklahoma is where there's about 100 million barrels of commercial oil that's there. It's where West Texas crude is priced from. This Keystone XL pipeline was going to be the third pipeline built. We know that the safest way to move oil and gas is by pipeline. And so everything gets political we don't need whoever is the mayor or the governor or the president to get involved because these projects take eight years. And to Governor Myers point, it's not right to kill the Rhode island wind project after they've been working on it and they're 80% complete just because you don't like it. So we don't need any administration getting involved. That's why permitting reform is so important, because I agree with him that these projects take so long and let him meet the needs and businesses meet the needs of the Delaware citizens because we're all, we all just want cheaper electricity and more affordable price. You're talking about affordability. And now we're making it cost more expensive for electricity there. We're a net exporter. So Oklahoma believes in that and we're lucky to have the oil and natural gas that we do. But we also have wind. We're number two in electricity generated by wind in the U.S. so we believe in all the above approach. We're really close to doing a nuclear deal. That's maybe coming online with Secretary Wright, but I agree with you. The billionaire comment.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

I wasn't talking about you, Kevin.

[Moderator]

Here's where it gets interesting. Here's where it gets interesting.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

You know, that's, that's easy to take shots, but basically those are developers. We celebrate success in America. And guess what? These are pension plans. These are teachers retirements. These are, everybody is invested in these projects. There's not one guy. Even if there is one guy, we're going to celebrate success. Do they have to follow all the permitting and clean water and clean air? 100%. But we want to make sure that people are following the rules. But we can't be a country that puts our thumb on the scale that says we don't like you because you're rich. And I know you didn't say that, but we don't like you because, but because we want to get out, have, have government get out of business. I think that's the, that's the main point I'm trying to make.

[Moderator]

Governor Meyer, what about that argument?

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Well, I mean, Kevin Stitt and I won't agree on everything, but I'll sit down and talk to him. I agree with most of what he's saying, certainly about permitting and the pendulum swinging back and forth. As long as he's not a Dallas Cowboys fan, we're going to be all right.

[Moderator]

But you said something I thought important, Governor Stitt, not just when it comes to permitting, but dealing with all of these issues, which is getting the Politics out of these issues. How do you begin to do that and does it start and does it depend on governors at the state level?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

I think it does. And you know, I've wait till you hear from Governor Cox because he's amazing on this issue. But basically the federal government's gotten so big and what I mean by that is this shouldn't be a one size fits.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

All.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Right? So in the United States right now, whoever gets into the White House, they want to put their policies and try to make them broad across the whole country. Well, our founding fathers and I talked about it in my speech earlier that New York's different than Virginia and there shouldn't be a one size fits all. He's closer to the citizens of Delaware than I am or somebody in Washington D.C. i should be in charge of Oklahoma. Oklahomans elected me, I'm in Oklahoma, My grandparents are Oklahomans, my parents are Oklahomans. And we know what Oklahoma thinks more than somebody in Washington D.C. and when you try to do a one size fits all across the country and you try to mandate everything, that's when the gridlock happens. Because we don't want to be like Minnesota, we don't want to be like Delaware. That's okay.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Yeah. It was 10 years ago I ran for my first office. I was a 6th and 7th grade math teacher. I ran to reform the education system. And what I found pretty quickly is that everyone in the community, Democrat, Republican, they wanted 911 calls answered quickly. They wanted a highly qualified police officer, paramedic, a firefighter showing up at their door, they wanted sewage to not leak into their basement and they wanted sewage rates to be low. I found it. If someone was a MAGA Republican and I kept sewage out of their basement and kept their sewer rates low, they were supporting a Democrat for governor. And I found if someone was a hardcore Democrat and there was sewage leaking in their basement, 911 call wasn't answered quickly, they weren't supporting me. But what's going on? Is there. Sorry to use the B word again, but there's billionaires making money off our division of getting people angry. And so I just want everyone who's like posting on social media before you post. Think for a second when you do that, you're making a billionaire richer. You're just putting more money in the pockets of people and helping to erode this system. When people Democrat Republican governors are happy to sit down and say, hey 90, what do they say? 85% of our concerns are basically the same and we can find ways to Move forward.

[Moderator]

And I just want to. Finally, one of the biggest issues for Americans all across this country is health care. Governor Stitt, how do you envision making health care more affordable and expanding access to people in the years to come?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, so we just actually had a meeting with, with Dr. Oz and behind closed doors with the governors. And I made this comment that the incentives are, are, are wrong. And this is gonna, this is gonna be. I don't know. I don't know if you'll agree with me on this one, but probably not.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

But it's all right.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Basically, you know, it's a 9010 split, right.

[Moderator]

With states.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

So the federal government pays 90% of our Medicaid expansion. And in the reimbursement rates, we're spending 2 trillion over our income right now. Nobody's talking about the national debt. It's at $40 trillion. We're spending more on interest than we do on our national defense. Now there is a big problem, and we have. We cannot afford to cover everyone. I just don't believe that. But what we can do is we can change the incentives and we can have the states through either block granting or maybe Oklahoma, instead of us sending all of our tax dollars to Washington, D.C. and then they turn around and send them all back to all the different states, maybe we just keep more of our money and we take care of our own health care needs in Oklahoma. And that would change the incentive. Because right now, even in Oklahoma, red state like Oklahoma, here's our philosophy. Well, we might as well get the federal dollars. If we don't get the federal dollars, they're going to Delaware, they're going to Maryland, or they're going to Utah or they're going to California or Texas. So we might as well get everything we can. But we lose the perspective that those are Oklahoma tax dollars going up there, getting washed through the bureaucracy and then coming back to all of our states. So the point is, let's change that incentive a little bit and let's let the states. If Delaware wants to do whatever they're going to do in health care, great, let them do it. Oklahoma does it. That's 50 laboratories of democracy that our founders envision. It's back to a federalism idea that I think would change the dynamics and the perspective of healthcare.

[Moderator]

And we are, we're going to do a panel on federalism. But I. This, to some extent, is at the core of so many of these issues. Governor Meyer, how do you.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Yeah, we're in the richest, most prosperous nation on earth at the Richest, most prosperous time in history. My son who's here is a rising 5th grader in public school. Anyone who wants in our community, regardless of where they come from, whatever status they have, can go to school for free. We've decided as a community, free education is important to all of us. I actually think the same is as true, if not more true of healthcare. I think there should be health care for everyone. I think it's inhumane and un American to say fifth graders who my son goes to school with should not have equal access to health care. And I think we need to do as state, federal government and the private sector, we need to do whatever we can to provide that assurance to everyone living in my state.

[Moderator]

Go ahead.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

The only thing I would say, like Ronald Reagan says, he holds the higher ground. Of course we want that for everyone. But like Ronald Reagan says, eventually you run out of other people's Money. We're already 2 trillion over our, our Congress is not even debating spending right now. It's just continuing resolution after continuing resolution. Let's have a conversation. If that's important to the American people, let's fund that. But let's fund it with whatever our income is. We cannot afford to keep spending 2 trillion over our income. I'm not telling Congress how to spend it. I'm just giving some ideas that the, that the, we could change the dynamics of how the funding works by keeping more in our states. And if Delaware is spending their money on universal health care, great. Oklahoma wants to take care of the age blind, disabled, pregnant women, children. If you're supposed to be working, we want them working, then let us do that as Oklahomans. Let's have a competition, right? That's the laboratories of democracy. Maybe his way is better and I'm going to switch to his way after a few years. Maybe my way is better, right? And so those are the great things. When we have a one size fits all federal government forcing us to do one thing, that's where the division happens and that's where everybody's at everybody's throat wanting. And the president becomes such an important office that we're all at each other's throats.

[Empower Advertiser]

Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money? So use empower and get good at money. So you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored.

[Moderator]

Try Angel Soft for your tushy.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

It's made by Angels Soft and Strong. Budget friendly. The choice is simple. Pick up a pack today.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Angel Soft.

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

Soft and strong.

[Moderator]

Simple.

[Daniel, Founder of Pretty Litter]

Hi, I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats and cat owners deserve better than any old fashioned litter. That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create Pretty Litter. Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80% less than clay litter. Just one bag lasts up to a month, meaning fewer refills and less scooping. Pretty Litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter.

[Moderator]

Go to prettylittle.com and use code Pandora for 20% off your first order that office. Final question to both of you. What has surprised you most? What is the biggest lesson you've learned about becoming governor? Governor Meyer, first to you.

[Governor Matt Meyer]

Look, I mean, people don't want to hear red state, blue state people. This is an American. We're in it together. The challenges that I'm seeing every single day aren't Republican or Democrat challenges. The challenges of AI that you talked about are really serious. We have a measles outbreak in your state. It's not a Republican or Democrat measles. It's really serious. And the one thing that I know to Governor Stitt's point earlier, if the pendulum keeps swinging backwards and forwards, the America of opportunity that my grandfather saw, that's going to dissipate, that's going to disappear over time. We must find a way. It's an American imperative that we find a way to address these workforce needs, that we address the permanent needs that we address. Health care for everyone, energy for everyone, affordable energy for everyone. Or we're going to see our country really decline into the future. There's tremendous opportunity, but it takes the people who are here coming together, working together, understanding there are differences. States are going to operate differently and that's okay, but we can move move forward.

[Moderator]

Governor Stitt, what has surprised you? What have you, what lesson have you learned that you weren't anticipating once you became governor?

[Governor Kevin Stitt]

You know, I think the greatness of our people, the ability to, you know, I tell people that Oklahoma City is like an inside baseball game. Most people are taking their kids to piano lessons, soccer practice. They're living their lives, they're paying their mortgage, they're wanting the best thing for their kids and sometimes Oklahoma city or Washington D.C. we think we know what's best for everyone and I believe in this self governance and self determination and the fact that most people in Oklahoma think they just want government out of their lives and they want to be able to live their life. They want a great economy, they want great infrastructure, they want a great education system. But beyond that, we shouldn't be thinking of more things to saddle on people. I just believe in limited government, lower taxes, let the free market work and that is the best solution.

[Moderator]

Well, this was a powerful way to kick off this series of common ground conversations. Thank you so much Governor Meyer. Governor Stick, thank you very much.

[Carl's Jr. Advertiser]

Maxing is so maxing right now bro. Get ready for spicy chicken maxing because Carl's Jr. Is saving you big with a 5.99 maxed out double stack double stack double stack spicy chicken sandwich. Seriously just five 99 double stack spicy sandwich chicken. This is unreal value in the bromosphere. The new Spicy Chicken Max Wallet Friendly Max Tasty only at Carl's Jr available for a limited time at participating restaurants, tactile included. Not valid for use within a combo or a combination with any other offered discount.