← Meet the Press
Meet the Press
May 17 — Sen. Lindsey Graham, Sen. Chris Van Hollen and James Comey
00:47:25
Kristen Welker interviews Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) as President Trump returns to Washington after his summit in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. Former FBI Director James Comey joins exclusively as he faces a second indictment from the Trump administration. Lanhee Chen, Adrienne Elrod and Ryan Nobles join the roundtable.
Loading summary
Transcript161 lines
- [00:00]
LifeLock Advertiser
You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft.
- [00:05]
Kristen Welker
I thought it was safe.
- [00:06]
LifeLock Advertiser
If that happens, LifeLock gives you a US based restoration agent who will stick by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims. Your agent handles it all. In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com Pandora terms apply.
- [00:30]
Dish Network Advertiser
Tired of overpaying with Direct TV? Dish offers a reliable low price every month without surprises. Get the TV you love and start watching live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to DISH today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at $89.99 a month with our two year price guarantee. Call 888 add dish or visit dish.com today.
- [01:01]
Kristen Welker
This Sunday, trade offs. President Trump meets Chinese President Xi Jinping in a high stakes summit with trade, security and the future of the world's two largest economies on the line.
- [01:15]
Senator Lindsey Graham
You're a great leader. Sometimes people don't like me saying it, but I say it anyway because it's true. I only say the truth.
- [01:21]
Kristen Welker
As China expands its global power, what did the president actually gain? Plus cost crisis. The economic fallout from the war with Iran is hitting home as inflation climbs to a three year high and the issue becomes a midterm flashpoint.
- [01:38]
President Donald Trump
I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
- [01:48]
Kristen Welker
Donald Trump and Republicans don't give a damn.
- [01:53]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Short term pain. It's going to be short term pain, but the pain is much less than people thought.
- [01:57]
Kristen Welker
Are Americans paying the price? My guests this morning, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. And legal pressure.
- [02:10]
Senator Lindsey Graham
He's a dirty cop. He's a crooked man.
- [02:12]
Kristen Welker
Former FBI Director James Comey joins us exclusively as he faces a second indictment from the Trump administration. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Brian Nobles, Adrienne Elrod, former senior advisor to the Harris campaign, and Lonnie Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press
- [02:39]
Charles Barkley
from NBC News
- [02:41]
Meet the Press Announcer
in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
- [02:49]
Kristen Welker
Good Sunday morning overnight, the latest target of President Trump's retribution campaign going down in defeat. Two term Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy losing his bid for Reelection to a Trump backed challenger who advances to a runoff. This after Senator Cassidy voted to convict Mr. Trump in his impeachment trial during the first term. We'll have much more on that coming up. But first, the President returned to Washington after his two day summit in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. In historic meeting, the president said strengthened ties between between the two nations, but which did not produce a major agreement on trade or a commitment from China to help end the war with Iran.
- [03:36]
President Donald Trump
Mr. President, did President Xi make any
- [03:39]
Meet the Press Announcer
firm commitments to put pressure on the
- [03:42]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Iranians to reopen the Strait of Hormuz?
- [03:46]
I'm not asking for any favors because when you ask for favors, you have to do favors in return. We don't need favors.
- [03:53]
Kristen Welker
Meanwhile, tensions intensifying in the Middle East. A fragile ceasefire still holding. But the Strait of Hormuz remains closed. And major questions remain about what comes next here at home. The economic impact of the war is putting new pressure on American households. With inflation hitting a three year high this week and gas prices remaining above $4.50 a gallon. President Trump making this striking admission earlier in the week. When you're negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are American financial situations motivating you to make a deal?
- [04:31]
President Donald Trump
Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American's financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.
- [04:47]
Kristen Welker
And joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to me.
- [04:53]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Thank you very much.
- [04:54]
Kristen Welker
Thank you for being here after an historic week.
- [04:57]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [04:57]
Kristen Welker
Let's start right there with the President's summit in China. One of the biggest issues discussed was Taiwan. Just for our viewers, it's a self ruling democracy that China has vowed to control. Now, Congress voted to approve billions of dollars in arms sales to defend the island. But in an interview after the summit was President Trump would not commit to supporting Taiwan. I want to play you a little bit of what he had to say.
- [05:24]
Senator Lindsey Graham
You're waiting on approving billions of dollars of weapons for Taiwan. Is that moving forward? Well, I haven't approved it yet. We're going to see what happens. What are you looking at? I may do it. I may not do it.
- [05:35]
President Donald Trump
Yeah.
- [05:35]
Senator Lindsey Graham
What's your, your hinge? Well, I'm not going to say that, but I may do it. I may not do it.
- [05:40]
Kristen Welker
Senator, can Taiwan be secure without U.S. support?
- [05:45]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Well, I think it's in our interest to make sure they can be secure. The country for a long time has a one China policy. Now what does that mean? We don't recognize two Chinas. We recognize one China with two systems. It's been the policy of the United States to help provide military aid to Taiwan. We have economic integration with Taiwan. So I want to continue that policy. Strategic ambiguity. What would we do if China invaded Taiwan? Well, we have strategic ambiguity. Trump said. President Trump, it would be up to me and me alone and he's right about that. What can I do as a member of Congress? We'll be introducing with Senator Sullivan from Alaska hard hitting pre invasion sanctions that would put tariffs and sanctions on China if they did invade Taiwan. I want China to know if you invade Taiwan, try to take Taiwan by force, here's what happens to your economy. The full weight and measure of, of sanctions and terrorists from the United States will kick in on day one. That's what I want to do to deter an invasion. As to the weapon sales, if the president decides not to approve the package, I'll leave that up to him. But I hope he will be able to tell the country by saying no to the weapons package. I got an agreement with China that makes Taiwan more secure. We'll see what happens.
- [07:09]
Kristen Welker
You want him to send the weapons though and does he support the sanctions package you just talked about?
- [07:14]
Senator Lindsey Graham
We haven't talked to him about it, but I think there'll be overwhelming sources support in Congress to let China, if we'd done this with Russia, if you invade Ukraine, here's what happens to you on day one. I don't think they would invade it. So let's make it clear to China, if you try to take Taiwan by force, here's what happens to your economy on day one. I'm hoping the administration would support that in terms of weapon sales, it's up to the President. I would encourage him to make Taiwan strong so we can deter aggression. If you give an inch on China, they'll take them on Taiwan. I think they'll take a mile. But not looking for war. We're not looking for conflict. I want to keep the status quo.
- [07:53]
Kristen Welker
Just to follow up on that point, President Trump warned other countries last year that when it comes to Iranian oil, quote, if you buy it, you're not doing any business with the United States. As you know, China buys 90% of Iran's oil. Are you disappointed that President Trump wasn't able to get China to stop buying Iranian oil during this summit?
- [08:18]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Well, President Trump said we don't need China. I'm not looking for a favor from China to help to end the Iranian conflict, but here's the the soft underbelly of Iran, their fossil fuel economy. As to Russia, we're very close to sanctions being passed by the Congress that will allow the president to put tariffs and sanctions on the shadow fleet and any country that buys cheap Russian oil to prop up Putin. It doesn't help. Ukraine can be tariffed. He put a 25% tariff on India. President Trump did, buying Russian oil. They'll come a moment here where China is going to have to be held accountable for what they're doing. And without China buying Iranian oil, their economy would collapse. So where are we with Iran? I think we've hit a wall when it comes to negotiations. Here's what the President said just a couple of days ago. Basically, I can say this with the I'm not going to be much more patient. Any sane person would make a deal, but they might be crazy. The President's had it with moving the goalpost. You get a deal, the next day they wake up in the President's word. It's like we never had the conversation. So what happens next? I think we hit a wall on deal making. I would encourage the president look at reducing Iran's military capability even further. They've been dramatically weakened, but they're still targets. That could weaken them more militarily. And I would also keep the embargo on to weaken their economy. And I'd let the Iranians know. If you keep terrorizing the region, Cargill and which is your source of reven will be in play. I think that's. That would be the smart next play. You can't pursue a deal more than the people on the other side want a deal.
- [10:01]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you, I just want to be very explicit. You are saying you think these negotiations have hit a wall?
- [10:07]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yes, ma'.
- [10:07]
Kristen Welker
Am. Are you saying, Senator, that you think it's time for President Trump to resume military action against Iran?
- [10:14]
Senator Lindsey Graham
I think you can't get a coherent answer from Iran because they can't be coherent. I think they're so disheveled now, they're so weakened, they agree to things and the next day back up. President Trump's very frustrated. So what to do next? I think it's going to be very difficult to get a deal with the current regime. Is there any evidence they've changed? I talked to the CIA director yesterday. Is there any evidence that their crowd in charge now is any less committed to destroying Israel going after US The Great Satan purifying Islam? I think the answer is no. So weaken them further and you may get a deal later. But you're not going to get a deal with this crowd until you hurt them more.
- [10:54]
Kristen Welker
So you're saying it sounds like you do support more military action at this point. Do you think that's something that will happen? Do you think it could happen in days, weeks?
- [11:02]
Senator Lindsey Graham
I think the status quo is hurting us all. The longer the strait is closed, the more we try to pursue a deal that never happens, the stronger Iran gets. So, according my analysis is there's nothing to suggest that the people in charge now are any different in terms of the regime's goal to terrorize the world, destroy Israel, come after us. So what do you do next? You weaken them further. What President Trump has done has been amazing militarily, but there's still more targets to be had and there's things we can do to hurt their. The energy infrastructure is their soft underbelly. If you go back to the fight, I put energy on top of the list.
- [11:42]
Kristen Welker
So you're calling for strikes on the energy infrastructure?
- [11:45]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yeah, I'm calling to hurt this regime. If you do the same old thing, you're going to get the same result. Hurt them more. Maybe they'll make a deal if you hurt them enough. But right now, I think they're trying to wait us out. I think they're playing games, and in the words of the president, I think they're crazy. I think he's right.
- [12:01]
Kristen Welker
Senator. The goal of this, One of the key goals from President Trump was to get their Iran. Iran's nuclear capabilities to wipe that out. How does the United States retrieve Iran's nuclear material without sending in ground forces?
- [12:16]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Well, hopefully you can do it diplomatically,
- [12:19]
Kristen Welker
but don't you need to send in ground forces if you want to retrieve it, which is what we've heard prioritize.
- [12:23]
Senator Lindsey Graham
He wants. He wants to get the nuclear dust. There's another way to do it, and I talked to him about it yesterday. Draw a circle around where we know it's at. Call it the. The circle of death. Anybody goes inside this circle is going to die. Until we can find a way to deal with this, the goal is to make sure they can't retrieve it. They can't make a dirty bomb, they can't further enrich their enrichment capability has been obliterated, at least for a couple years.
- [12:48]
Kristen Welker
All right, let me turn to the economy and the economic effects of the war, which are being felt here at home. Inflation has climbed to highest Annual rate in three years. Gas prices are at a four year high. Grocery prices are climbing. President Trump was pressed on how all of these factors impact how he views his negotiations with Iran. Take a look.
- [13:10]
President Donald Trump
I don't think about American's financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.
- [13:21]
Kristen Welker
Do you agree with the President that he shouldn't be taking Americans financial situation into account when dealing with Iran?
- [13:28]
Senator Lindsey Graham
That's his Churchill moment. When Churchill came into power, he promised blood, sweat to heartache until we deal with the Nazis who are an existential threat to the British way of life. And if Hitler had taken charge of the planet, it would have been the darkest hour in humanity. I believe Iran wants a nuclear weapon. They would use it. So does President Trump. They would use it as part of their religious agenda. They would destroy the Jewish state that would eventually hold us hostage. So his audience, the Iranian regime, do I worry about gas prices? Yes. But President Trump's right. The biggest threat to disability in the world is a nuclear armed Iran. And whatever price we have to pay, we will pay. What did Churchill say? Whatever price we have to pay to beat Hitler, we will pay. Same with Iran. The good news, we're inside the 10 yard line. I think if we go back to military activity, weaken them further, then we can end this thing pretty soon.
- [14:21]
Kristen Welker
Senator, you take me to my next question. Because 70% of Americans in a new poll say President Trump is doing a bad job on the economy. The number one issue for voters, as you know, bottom line, is it worth losing the midterms if the result is
- [14:35]
Senator Lindsey Graham
a non nuclear Iran, it's worth losing my job. If I had to give my job up to make sure Iran would never have a nuclear weapon, I would do it.
- [14:45]
Kristen Welker
Would you give up the House in the Senate?
- [14:47]
Senator Lindsey Graham
I would give up. Politically, the most important thing I can do with the job I've been given is to protect the American people. Now you don't have to agree with me, but I've been this way for 20 years. I believe they're religious Nazis in Iran. If they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it. They've been trying to get one. They've been cheating. Obama and Biden were jokes when it came to containing Iran. Trump is doing something people should have done a long time ago. But here's the good news. Gas prices will come down when you put Iran in a box. Saudi Israel peace will become possible when you put Iran in a box. The upside of dealing with Iran is enormously good, but you gotta deal with them.
- [15:27]
Kristen Welker
Senator, let me ask you about the news overnight. Senator Bill Cassidy losing his primary in Louisiana. You worked closely with Senator Bill Cassidy on a range of different issues, including a plan to replace Obamacare. He, of course, voted to convict President Trump back in 2021 in the impeachment trial. Now he's lost his seat. Are you glad that Senator Cassidy is no longer going to be your colleague?
- [15:50]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Senator no, I like Bill. I thought he's a great senator, but he made a political decision. He tried to. He voted to impeach President Trump, which would have ruined his political life. He could never run for office again. Massey's in on the ballot Tuesday. He votes against Trump all the time. What's the headline? Trump Strong. Those who try to destroy Trump politically stand in the way of his agenda are going to lose. Bill made a decision. What would LBJ do? Is it natural for a politician to go after people who try to destroy their, their political life? So, Bill, Cassie's lost because he tried to destroy Trump. Massie's going to lose because he's trying to destroy the agenda. You can disagree with President Trump, but if you try to destroy him, you're going to lose because this is the party of Donald Trump.
- [16:38]
Kristen Welker
Very quickly, does his defeat send a message if this is the party of Donald Trump, that there's no room in the party to break with?
- [16:46]
Senator Lindsey Graham
President no, I, I just talked to him a few minutes ago. We have a difference.
- [16:50]
Kristen Welker
President Trump.
- [16:51]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yeah, just a few minutes ago. There's no room in this party to destroy his agenda or to destroy him and his family. As a Republican, Democrats do it all the time. If you align with Democrats to stop his agenda like Massie does, you're going to lose. If you allow with Democrats to drive him out of office like Cassidy did, you're going to lose. I disagree with Trump. President President Trump, on occasion, he endorsed me. It's been enormously helpful to me. Thank you, President Trump, for endorsing me. It's helped me in my primary. It's just a reality and it's a good reality. I think President Trump's doing a hell of a good job. And if you get, if you try to destroy him, you're going to get destroyed. That's the takeaway.
- [17:28]
Kristen Welker
All right, Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much for being here in person to discuss a very busy week. We really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen joins me next.
- [17:43]
Comcast Business Advertiser
The world of business is constantly evolving and Comcast business keeps you totally in step with secure AI backed networking in more than 100 countries. They're powering over 90% of the Fortune 500 and millions of small businesses. That's a lot of muscle. And behind it all, thousands of experts answering your call at 2am like it's 2pm One partner powering how business gets done for companies around the globe. When you add it all up, no one does business like Comcast Business.
- [18:13]
Dish Network Advertiser
Tired of overpaying with DirecTV. Dish offers a reliable low price every month without surprises. Get the TV you love and start watching live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to Dish today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at $89.99 a month with our two year price guarantee. Call 888 add dish or visit dish.com today.
- [18:43]
Charles Barkley
It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair. And let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play. That's where Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrella to grills and grill accessories, Wayfair's got it all and it shows up fast. I'm talking fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to Wayfarer.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season.
- [19:10]
Kristen Welker
Wayfair, every style, every home. Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Senator Van Hollen, welcome back to MEET THE press.
- [19:21]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yes.
- [19:23]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
It's great to be with you, Kristen.
- [19:25]
Kristen Welker
It's great to have you back. We really appreciate your being here. Let's start with President Trump's summit in China. He returned without securing a commitment from China to help broker an end to the war in Iran. I'm curious, do you think that the US Needs China's support in order to bring an end to the war with Iran?
- [19:49]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
I don't think we need China's support. I think the fastest way to end the war in Iran is just to stop digging a hole even deeper. And that's what we should do right now. After all, Donald Trump was the candidate who said he was going to keep us out of wars and he was going to focus on bringing down prices. And of course, he's done just the opposite. Gas and other prices are going through the roof. He says he's not thinking about American finances and he's gotten into this in this war that's making us less safe. So, no, we don't need China to get us out. We just need to end it.
- [20:21]
Kristen Welker
Well, you've made it very clear you agree with the premise of the war, which is that Iran should never obtain a nuclear weapon. Based on what you're saying, that it's time to just get out of Iran, do you think diplomacy could actually bring about another Iran nuclear deal at this point, Senator?
- [20:41]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
Well, I know if we had people who were willing to negotiate, we could get it done, because we got that done when President Obama was in office. We had the jcpoa. The JCPOA prevented Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. It dramatically contained its nuclear enrichment program, and it had the world's most intense inspection regime, so that if they cheated, we could catch them like that. And, of course, just last year, Donald Trump told the country that he had obliterated Iran's nuclear enrichment program. Taken care of it, and his head of dni, Tulsi Gabbard, testified that they have no evidence that Iran wants to resume it. So the president got dragged into this war. Prime Minister Netanyahu said that he'd been waiting 40 years for somebody to go to war with him in Iran. He found a president stupid enough to do it. I blame Donald Trump for that decision, but here we are.
- [21:41]
Kristen Welker
All right, let me shift gears now, Senator. I do want to ask you about something that unfolded this week on Capitol Hill. This was your heated exchange with FBI Director Kash Patel. It was during a Senate hearing this week where the two of you sparred over reporting about Patel's alleged drinking habits. We have to stress that Patel has denied all of the allegations against him. But I do want to play a section from that hearing and get your reaction on the other side. Take a look.
- [22:10]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
So there have been no occasions during your tenure when FBI personnel were unable to promptly reach you?
- [22:16]
FBI Director Kash Patel
Absolutely not. You can ask my entire workforce. They hear from me at every single hour of the day, as do these great gentlemen here, as do the men and women of the interagency and state and local law enforcement in the White House.
- [22:26]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
And so there have been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you, is that right?
- [22:32]
FBI Director Kash Patel
Nope. It's a total farce. I don't even know where you get this stuff, but it doesn't make it credible because you say so.
- [22:37]
Kristen Welker
Do you believe that the FBI can function effectively with Director Patel in charge?
- [22:45]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
Oh, I don't. But it's not simply because of this issue. The fact that there's so many reports that indicate that his drinking has meant that he's Incapacitated at many times. As I said, Kristen, I really don't care what he does on his free time, so long as he's not putting the public at risk, so long as he's not compromising his important mission as Director of the FBI. But beyond this, we also have the fact that he has completely weaponized the FBI. He went after agents who were helpful, helped investigate the January 6 rioters. More recently, he went after agents who were part of the investigation of Trump's taking classified materials to, to Mar a Lago. They didn't decide to do that. They were following their orders. And by the way, many of them were part of the counter espionage unit with respect to Iran. So he fired them at the very moment we need them most when we have this conflict with Iran. So I think he needs to go for a whole host of reasons.
- [23:50]
Kristen Welker
Well, Senator, you took the Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test. You challenged Director Patel to do the same. Do you have any indication that he's actually going to take that test, or do you think that that was a challenge that to some extent you did just to prove a point?
- [24:11]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
Well, he said in, in public testimony that he would do it. He's also under oath automatically in the sense that lying to Congress is a crime. So he said he's going to do it. Yeah, yeah. My, my, my sense from Patel's conduct overall is he may or may not do it, but I unfortunately won't be able to believe the results because in that hearing, he did lie several times.
- [24:39]
Senator Lindsey Graham
All right.
- [24:40]
Kristen Welker
Well, I do want to turn to the redistricting battle where Democrats have faced, as you know, Senator, a series of recent setbacks in the courts. Do you believe that Democrats are in danger of losing their fight to win back the House?
- [24:58]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
I do not. I think the Democrats will win back the House because there's so much momentum. People are extremely upset, as they should be, with the fact that, you know, Trump has handled the economy in a terrible way. Prices are going through the roof. Life is unaffordable for millions and millions of Americans. He started a war that he promised he wouldn't. And so I think the momentum is very much there now. Obviously, these decisions, including the more recent, you know, attack on the Voting Rights act, which was a huge, infamously bad decision, provides some setbacks. But I think, I think the political winds, Kristen, are blowing strongly enough that Democrats will win back the House.
- [25:43]
Kristen Welker
Senator, Maryland is actually considering redrawing its state maps after the Democrat led state Senate previously rejected measures to redistrict. And these new maps would in fact, eliminate the states lone Republican representative. Do you support redrawing the lines before the midterms? What do you say to the Chargers? It's hypocritical.
- [26:08]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
Oh, I do, if it's possible. Look, here's my view, Kristen. I've always supported nationwide nonpartisan redistricting. We should put on a blindfold and we should draw congressional districts in nonpartisan ways. But Republicans have blocked that legislation at the federal level. Meanwhile, Trump has ordered Texas to engage in redistricting, which they did. So I am very much opposed to unilateral disarmament. I want to thank California for what they're doing, the Virginians for what they did despite their Supreme Court decision. And Maryland and other states should do what we can because the future control of the House is at stake right here. And we need to do everything we can to prevent a continuation of what is a complete rubber stamp for Donald Trump. You heard Lindsey Graham. He said this is the party of Donald Trump. It is. It's a personality cult. And we need checks and balances, not a personality cult of rubber stamps.
- [27:07]
Kristen Welker
All right, Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so very much for being here.
- [27:12]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
Thank you.
- [27:13]
Kristen Welker
And when we come back, former FBI Director James Comey joins me next.
- [27:21]
LinkedIn Advertiser
LinkedIn's AI powered job search can help you find the most relevant roles based on your goals and experience. It cannot help you find something to talk about in the elevator.
- [27:30]
Kristen Welker
So ride any dragons this weekend?
- [27:33]
LinkedIn Advertiser
It can help you find your next job just by describing it in your own words. It cannot stop your co worker from describing their dreams.
- [27:40]
Kristen Welker
So I was flying, right?
- [27:41]
LinkedIn Advertiser
And while we can't help you advance in the Office Foosball tournament, LinkedIn can help you advance in your career. LinkedIn is the network that works for you.
- [27:51]
Will Arnett
Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it.
- [28:25]
Andrew Moyes
Today in Orlando, meetings reach another level thanks to a growing list of award winning restaurants, a world class convention center, a great hotel community, easy access through the airport, and of course, the weather. Andrew Moyes, VP of Fan Expo hq, had this to say about Orlando. Orlando really can be that destination where you can innovate, collaborate, and look into the future. And that's what makes Orlando unbelievably real. Learn more@orlandoforbusiness.com
- [28:56]
Kristen Welker
welcome back. And joining me now is former FBI Director James Comey, author of the new novel Red Verdict. Director Comey, welcome back to Meet the Press.
- [29:06]
Meet the Press Announcer
Great to be with you.
- [29:07]
Kristen Welker
Great to have you here. Congratulations on your novel. We'll talk about it in just a moment. I do want to start with this extraordinary moment in which you find yourself. You're facing a second indictment by the Trump administration trial in just a few weeks, potentially. I know you're not going to comment on the specifics of the case, but I want to ask you a big picture question. The charges against you stem from this Instagram post of Seashells that spelled out 8647. You see it right there? The indictment says it was, quote, a serious expression of an intent to do harm to the President of the United States. Has being under this microscope changed the way you've live your life, Director Comey?
- [29:49]
Meet the Press Announcer
It's made me want to spend more time as a grandfather pushing my grandkids on a swing and not talking to awesome people like yourself. But it hasn't changed how I see the world or my life.
- [30:00]
Kristen Welker
Well, I interviewed the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, earlier this month, and he said, quote, this is not just about a single Instagram post. This is about a body of evidence that the grand jury collected over the series of about 11 months. Do you know what he's talking about? Evidence over the series of 11 months?
- [30:19]
Meet the Press Announcer
Yeah, I saw that. As you said a few minutes ago, I don't talk about the case because the federal court rules require you not. I would urge the acting attorney general to bone up on the rules.
- [30:32]
Kristen Welker
So. But do you know what he's talking about with.
- [30:34]
Meet the Press Announcer
I don't want to comment on it because then some would say, I'm commenting on the case. He ought not to be talking about it. I can't talk about it. That's why we have a judicial process in a courtroom.
- [30:43]
Kristen Welker
Fair enough. In an interview with Stephen Colbert last year, you did address what you, you were thinking when you and your wife were walking on the beach. You said you saw the shells in the sand. I wanna just play a little bit of what you told Stephen Colbert.
- [30:56]
Meet the Press Announcer
She looked at it and said, why'd someone put their address in the sand? All right? And then we stood at it trying to figure, looked at it, trying to figure out what it was. And she'd long been a server in restaurants. And she said, you know what I think it is?
- [31:07]
Senator Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [31:07]
Meet the Press Announcer
I think it's a reference to restaurants. When you'd 86 something in a restaurant,
- [31:11]
Senator Chris Van Hollen
it's off the menu.
- [31:12]
Meet the Press Announcer
Yeah. I said, no. I remember as a kid, you'd say 86 to get out of a place. This place stinks. Let's 86 it. And so I said, I think it's a clever political message. And she said, you should take a picture of it. I said, sure. And then she said, you should Instagram that. And boom.
- [31:28]
Kristen Welker
Just big picture. Director Comey, what do you say to those who would argue the former director of the FBI shouldn't be putting political posts on Instagram or social media?
- [31:39]
Meet the Press Announcer
Yeah, I'm a private citizen. I saw a shell in the fall of 2024 where someone wrote an endorsement of Kamala Harris in a big seashell. I took a picture of it, thought it was very clever, and I think I wrote, ariel understands the assignment, a reference to Little Mermaid. I'm a private citizen. Again, I'm not gonna talk about that particular post, but I use Instagram the way any awkward, nerdy dad would.
- [32:04]
Kristen Welker
Well, in the past, you've said you have faith in the legal system. As you face this second. Second indictment, are you confident that you will be cleared one way or another?
- [32:15]
Meet the Press Announcer
I have complete faith in our judicial system. It's the genius of our founders. It's frankly the only leg of our three leg stool that is still standing in the US Government. But it's standing tall and straight. It is the guardian of the rule of law, and I believe in it. And so let's make use of it.
- [32:33]
Kristen Welker
And you've publicly posted. You haven't done anything wrong. You haven't done anything illegal. So are you confident that at the end of the day, you'll be cleared in one way or another?
- [32:42]
Meet the Press Announcer
All I can do without making my lawyers angry at me is repeat what I said in my initial statement. I'm not just not guilty. I am innocent. And so let's go.
- [32:50]
Kristen Welker
All right. You have, if we look back, been in the crosshairs of politicians in the past. This is not new. From Hillary Clinton, the email investigation, the Russia probe. Looking back, Director Comey, is there anything you would have done differently over the past decade?
- [33:09]
Meet the Press Announcer
Anything? Yeah, lots of things. In my life as a father and a grandfather and as FBI director, there are all kinds of things that I screwed up. The major decisions that people often talk about, I still see them the same. But, yeah, I would be better in all kinds of ways if I had A magic wand.
- [33:27]
Kristen Welker
Yeah. Well, let me be more specific, because you've wondered out loud whether your decision to reopen the Clinton email investigation 11 days before voters went to the polls may have helped elect President President Trump back in 2016. Knowing what you know now, would you have made the same exact decision again?
- [33:48]
Meet the Press Announcer
I think so. The only thing I've wondered is whether I should have dumped that very difficult decision on the attorney general on Oct. 28. She declined to speak to me, but I could have just sent her a memo saying, here's what I think we have to do. But I decided then, and honestly, 10 years later, it feels the same. That would have been a chicken blank thing to do. It was a decision that I had to make because I had testified all summer that the investigation was done, and now it's not done. Do I really conceal that from the American people, from the Congress? I can't. And it would have been a chicken thing to do to dump it on the ag. But sometimes when people are unhappy with me on the street, I think I should have left it for loretta Lynch.
- [34:29]
Kristen Welker
Well, 10 years later, now that you've had all of this time to think about it, do you think that decision did play a role in the election of President Trump?
- [34:39]
Meet the Press Announcer
I hope not. My goal all of that year was to stay out of politics. And having seen two elections after that where, as they said, the difference the FBI made was late deciding voters broke for Trump in 16, but then they did again in 20, and then they did again in 24, when I was home in my pajamas for both elections. So I don't think so. But again, we made the decision because it was the least bad option. Both options sucked, honestly. But this was the one most consistent with the values of the department. So as painful as it is, I'd have to do the same thing again.
- [35:13]
Kristen Welker
President Trump was indicted twice by the Justice Department. As you know, in public posts, he's now justified going after his political enemies because of how he believes he was treated. Do you view the prosecutions against you as political payback?
- [35:31]
Meet the Press Announcer
Well, I can't talk about the shell case. Talk about the first case, the four that got dismissed. Absolutely. And we made a motion to have it dismissed as a vindictive prosec. The President of the United States cannot use the Justice Department to target people because he wants to retaliate against them. We just can't operate as a republic if that happens. And so there's a powerful argument to be made that's illegal. We didn't get to that because there are all kinds of other problems with the case, but absolutely. Going after John Brennan, after Jim Clapper, after Adam Schiff, all of these things are not about the merits. It's about retaliation. And that is not just wrong. It's a way in which our system cannot operate and be effective.
- [36:08]
Kristen Welker
Does it make you and your family fearful?
- [36:11]
Meet the Press Announcer
No, because I know what I'm dealing with. Someone who's announced he's now the hunter. Okay, let's go.
- [36:18]
Kristen Welker
Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche told me earlier this month, the evidence that was presented to a grand jury in this latest case, not the government, not the Department of Justice, he said, quote, it's not Todd Blanche that returned an indictment against James Comey, it's the grand jury. Part of the judicial process. Does the fact that a grand jury issued this latest indictment undercut any argument that this latest indictment might be political retribution? Not that you have made that argument here, but for those who would make
- [36:50]
Meet the Press Announcer
that argument, and I'm so tempted to answer that, but can I answer it? About the last case, which is now gone, please. Same argument was made. A grand jury returned an indictment. Still doesn't change the fact that it can be a vindictive prosecution. And there, of course, a magistrate judge found misconduct of a variety of kinds by the late, late breaking appointed U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan. And so it's important. The grand jury's an important part of the process. But there's more to follow.
- [37:18]
Kristen Welker
As you know, the FBI director is meant to serve a nonpartisan 10 year term. I don't have to tell you that you're very familiar with that. Do you think the next president should keep FBI Director Kash Patel in his position through his 10 year term?
- [37:34]
Meet the Press Announcer
Next president should make an evaluation about whether whoever's in that job, job come January of 2029 is performing it in a way that's consistent with the American people's expectations for that organization, which is to be competent, honest and independent. On the current record, it would be a tough continuation for the current director. But I don't know. The president, whoever the President is then will have to make that evaluation.
- [37:56]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you, because would it undermine the independence of the FBI if the next president doesn't allow Patel to serve out that full 10 year term?
- [38:08]
Meet the Press Announcer
Well, again, the values are independence, competence and honesty. And if by some stroke Mr. Patel is reflecting all those values in another two years, then maybe the next president will want to keep him. But I think you have to have a competent, honest and independent person leading that institution, else its other contributions to America are lost.
- [38:29]
Kristen Welker
You've laid out the qualities that you think are necessary to be FBI director. Do you think Kash Patel has those qualities? Has he shown showcased that?
- [38:37]
Meet the Press Announcer
Not for me to say. An expression from law school keeps popping in my head, recip soloquidor, which is Latin, I think, for the thing speaks for itself. So I'll let others make that judgment.
- [38:47]
Kristen Welker
Okay. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche says that during the second Trump administration, so far more than 200 people have been forced out of the Justice Department. That includes your own daughter, who was a federal prosecutor in New York. Do you have confidence in the Justice Department to serve the people of this country right now?
- [39:08]
Meet the Press Announcer
I do not. Looked at from the top level, the people running it. If you're bragging about forcing out career prosecutors and agents because the president doesn't like a lawful investigation they conducted, something is seriously broken at the top. But I have great confidence in the people down below who are just trying to hang on. And I'm urging them hang on two and a half years and then we can rebuild these institutions. But we need good people in those roles. America does.
- [39:35]
Kristen Welker
All right, Director Comey, let me turn to your novel Red Verdict. Here it is. Great book. It's the latest in your series, quite frankly, of legal thrillers. It's number four. You write scenes based on your decades of experience inside the doj. Do you think your novels still reflect the reality of the people serving in the Justice Department today?
- [39:57]
Meet the Press Announcer
Day yes. Again, I'm going to exclude that top layer and sort of skim that off down below. Yes, people join the Department of Justice, the FBI, which is part of the Department of Justice, because they want to do the right thing. And in the overwhelming main, they do. My characters are flawed because they're humans as I am, but they are good people trying to do the right thing. That's what I love about this writing. And I hope readers first, the stories are really cool and capture you. But most of all, the characters show something that is real and that ought to reassure all of us.
- [40:30]
Kristen Welker
Well, one of the characters, the central character based on your daughter, you have said, I wonder what do you hope this next chapter will look like for your daughter, for you, for your family, in your actual real life?
- [40:46]
Meet the Press Announcer
Well, next chapter for me will be more books and then once a year I will do interviews. So maybe we'll see each other again. But for people like my daughter, my son in law who resigned from the U.S. attorney's office in Virginia the day I was charged, they represent hundreds of quality people. I think they're I don't want to tell them what their employment situation should be. But I hope they flow back. And I think lots and lots of great people will flow back with the opportunity to rebuild the department, which was what happened after Watergate. Great young people came back to save us and they will again.
- [41:18]
Kristen Welker
All right. Director James Comey, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
- [41:22]
Meet the Press Announcer
Thanks for having me.
- [41:23]
Kristen Welker
Thank you. Great to talk to you. When we come back, President Trump back from Beijing after a high stakes meeting with Xi Jinping. 54 years after Richard Nixon opened the door to China in an historic visit that changed the world. Our MEET THE PRESS minute is next. Welcome back. 54 years ago, Richard Nixon made history, becoming the first sitting US President to visit China, meeting with Mao Zedong and ending a quarter century of isolation between the two countries. The trip helped reshape the global balance of power and ultimately paved the way for full diplomatic relations. In 1979, speaking with Meet the Press, more than a decade after leaving the White House, Nixon reflected on that moment.
- [42:13]
Richard Nixon (archival)
I would say that as people look back on the Nixon administration, they're probably most likely to remember 50 years from now, 100 years from now, that it made a difference on a very major issue. We changed the world. If it had not been for the China initiative, which only I could do at that time point, we would be in a terrible situation today with China aligned with the Soviet Union and with the Soviet Union's power, the China initiative hasn't brought peace to the world. We can't be sure what will happen, but without it, we would be in a terrible shape.
- [42:46]
Kristen Welker
And when we come back, a Republican who voted to convict President Trump loses his primary. What does it mean for the gop? The panel is next. Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles, Democratic strategist Adrian Elrod and Lonnie Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here on a jam packed Sunday. Ryan, I have to start with you. These results overnight dramatic. Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy going down in defeat, losing his seat to Trump backed challenger Julia Letlow winning who fell short of winning outright. She would have needed 50% plus one in order to win. So she goes to a runoff with Fleming. What does this moment say about the grip that President Trump has over the Republican Party? You heard Senator Lindsey Graham say it's clear this is the party of Trump's speaker.
- [43:42]
NBC News Correspondent Ryan Nobles
Mother. It's impossible to be a Republican in American politics right now and not be 100% in lockstep with Donald Trump. And that's been proven time and time again. Bill Cassidy, when he cast that vote to convict President Trump in the wake of January 6, basically sealed his political fate. And there was no chance that Donald Trump was ever going to forget about that. But I have to imagine that there are a lot of Republicans that are running in very tight midterm elections in swing districts across the country that have to question the decision making process of the Trump political apparatus. To spend so much time and energy removing Republicans who vote with Donald Trump 90 to 95% of the time, it's a lot of expense. It's a lot of time. And the same applies to what's happening in Kentucky here on Tuesday with Tom Massie. Donald Trump is on a revenge tour. He often wins those revenge tours. But what does it mean for the future health of the Republican Party?
- [44:38]
Kristen Welker
Lonnie, pick up on that point. The Massey race, the most expensive primary in history and the fact that, as Ryan is saying, he votes with Trump over 90% of the time. So did Cassidy, by the way.
- [44:50]
Political Analyst Lonnie Chen
Yeah, but it's not enough. Right. There's two things I'm reminded of here. One is how national our politics have become. It used to be the case you'd like your member of Congress there was somewhat disassociated from your opinion of the national party. You like a member of Congress. You don't like Congress in general. We know all these trends from political science. That's not the case anymore. Right. Politics is nationalized. And there's no greater national figure in Republican politics than Donald Trump. The second thing I would say is Donald Trump is the sun, the moon and the stars for Republican voters. He generates a massive gravitational pull. And the reason why his political apparatus is spending so much time trying to oust Republicans who vote with him 95% of the time is because because they can find Republicans who vote with them 100% of the time. And that margin is worth it for that political apparatus to be able to have members of Congress who are totally aligned with President Trump. I think the warning signs are there for Massie for Tuesday night. The survey research suggests that that race has basically flipped against Massie over the last couple of weeks. I think people in Kentucky like him. They like Donald Trump more.
- [45:54]
Kristen Welker
Yeah, it seemed like he was gonna hold on. It certainly has gotten a lot tougher based on the recent polling. Adrian, let me have you weigh in this redistrict in the wake of these legal defeats that Democrats have suffered. According to Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political report. Democrats, he said, initially needed three seats to win back the House. Now he projects it's more like 10. Has this become out of reach? You heard Senator Van Hollen say, no, not at all. But what are your conversations?
- [46:23]
Democratic Strategist Adrienne Elrod
Yeah, Senator Van Hollen is exactly right. I mean, look, what happened in Virginia was certainly a setback for Democrats. But Kristen, we're going to win at the ballot box. And we have been winning at the ballot box. I think the stat is 267 out of 297 special elections that have taken place since November 2024. Democrats have either flipped those or significantly overperformed Republicans in those seats. So we are showing that we can win. Trump is underwater on almost every issue from the economy, obviously, affordability being a huge part of the economy, the war in Iran, on gas prices, he is substantially underwater. So we are winning at the ballot box. And look, we're taking the fight to the states. I think this only underscores the importance of Democrats making sure that we have more state legislative wins, that we win more governor's seats so that we can fight tooth and nail on this redistricting battle going forward.
- [47:12]
Kristen Welker
Well, Ryan, pick up on that point because Adrian's talking about the economy's going to be front and center. And here we have these comments that President Trump made as he's departing for China this historic trip. He's pressed on the extent to which Americans financial situation factors into his negotiations with Iran. He says, I don't think about it. How much is that playing on the Capitol Hill to the campaign trail with Republicans. What are they saying?
- [47:37]
NBC News Correspondent Ryan Nobles
And you heard Senator Graham double down on that point with you today. Listen, President Trump's making a bet. That bet is that the American people believe a nuclear free Iran is worth the cost of $5 a gallon of gasoline. And in many ways he's making the same argument that many presidents have made in the wake of 9, 11 during World War II, that American Americans understand the cost of national security. I just don't think there's a lot of evidence that the situation in Iran carries the same level of weight that some of these other international conflicts have. And that if you look at the polling, 77% of Americans believe that the war in Iran is costing them financially. And if the economy is the dominant issue in the fall election, that is a very serious bet for the president to make. And if things don't improve, improve quickly and I mean in the next couple of weeks and those prices don't start to come down, it's hard to Imagine how Republicans don't pay that price in the fall.
- [48:32]
Kristen Welker
Well, Lonnie, Recent polls show 77% say President Trump's policies have actually worsened their economic situation. Is there enough time for it to turn around even if the war were to end in the next few weeks,
- [48:45]
Political Analyst Lonnie Chen
Say, I think the impressions are pretty well baked. I mean, if you look at, for example, the public's perception of the president's handling of cost of living issues, there's been a 20 point swing between last year and this. That's pretty tremendous. I think the key issue here is Democrats have a lot of energy going into this election, but they also have the challenge that their image is limited. I think a lot's capped. I think a lot of Americans question, for example, Democrats positioning on cultural issues. They question whether Democrats are really better able to handle the economy. That's going to go up against this general trend we see in midterm elections where presidents have a tough time. And the president's image in this particular situation on cost of living issues, the top issues issue is severely underwater. So those are the trends we're going to see. I think the redistricting thing has really helped Republicans. The likelihood that they retain the House is a lot higher now than it was before. And I still think the Senate stays Republican.
- [49:37]
Kristen Welker
Adrian, Look, I, I, I respectfully disagree.
- [49:41]
Democratic Strategist Adrienne Elrod
I mean, look, the Democratic Party's brand certainly needs some work. And I think once we get past the midterms and we start focusing on the presidential campaign in 2027, 2028, we've got a number of amazing governors who are running. We've got some really strong candidates who are going to come forward, be front and center and really have an open debate of our country. And I think you will see the Democratic Party brand emerge and improve when that happens. But at the same time, look, when we're looking at the numbers in the House, it seems almost impossible that Republic Republicans would hold on to it. I mean, we are, they're only down a couple of seats or we are Democrats are only down a couple of seats right now. And with redistricting, sure, it's a setback for us. But again, on the issues, Kristen, we are going to win on them. We have been and we will win at the ballot box again in November.
- [50:24]
Kristen Welker
Ryan, final 30 seconds. What are you going to be watching for on Tuesday night? Six states going to the polls.
- [50:28]
NBC News Correspondent Ryan Nobles
I'm not convinced that Tom Massie can't win on Tuesday. And I think there's a possibility that he bucks a trend. But if he does I don't think we should overanalyze that. I think he's a unique politician in a unique district, and it doesn't necessarily mean that Donald Trump doesn't still own the Republican Party.
- [50:42]
Kristen Welker
Well, it is going to be an exciting night, that is for sure. Thank you all for joining us. Really appreciate it. And a quick and important programming note. Please join me along with Hallie Jackson and Steve Kornacki and Ryan Nobles as we break down the results of Tuesday's primary elections on NBC News now starting at C6 30 Eastern. You don't want to miss it. It's going to be a very exciting night. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
- [51:29]
Zepbound Advertiser
Snoring, gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued? Ask your doctor about Zepbound Tirzepatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if a little allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com.