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Meet the Press
May 31 — Fmr. VP Mike Pence and Gov. Andy Beshear
00:47:33
Kristen Welker interviews former Vice President Mike Pence and Gov. Andy Beshear (D-Ky.). Leigh Ann Caldwell, Val Demings, Garrett Haake and Stephen Hayes join the roundtable.
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Uncrustables Host
It's the Smuckers Uncrustables Radio Hour with round, soft pillowy bread filled with delicious PB and J. Here's your host Uncrustables. Call her on line three. What's eating you? No one crust, Is that you?
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Donald Trump
Ugh.
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Mike Pence
Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry, crust.
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Kristen Welker
I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Kosentix advocate chef Michelle Bernstein.
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Cyndi Lauper
We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
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Kristen Welker
this Sunday, midterm pressure rising costs from the war with Iran heighten the political stakes as peace talks drag on amid a wave of new strikes.
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Donald Trump
They thought they were going to outweigh me. You know we'll outweigh him. He's got the midterms.
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Mike Pence
I don't care about the midterms.
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Kristen Welker
Is there a deal to end the war? Plus, conservative crossroads.
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Mike Pence
We just made history.
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Kristen Welker
President Trump scores another win in Texas, elevating Ken Paxton and tightening his grip on the Republican Party.
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Mike Pence
His endorsement in this most power is the most powerful force in politics.
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Kristen Welker
But is the president putting his Senate majority at risk? Talk to former Vice President Mike Pence. And who's next? Democrats wrestle with the lessons of 2024 as the 2028 field begins to take shape. As I watched it, I thought, oh my God, he's having a stroke. Has the party learned from its past mistakes? I'll talk to Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, an emerging 2028 contender. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News chief White House correspondent Garrett Hake, Leanne Caldw, Washington correspondent for puck, former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings and Stephen Hayes, editor of the Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday. It's MEET the press From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. Good Sunday morning. President Trump is facing one of the most consequential decisions of his presidency, whether to accept a deal with Iran or risk a deeper conflict in the Middle East. After a week of new strikes by both sides, the president is signaling he's in no rush to make a deal.
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Donald Trump
They originally said we will not develop a nuclear weapon. I said, well, what happens if you buy a nuclear weapon? So now it says we will not develop or in any way purchase a military weapon. That's a big difference. So we're getting what we want.
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Mike Pence
Slowly.
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Donald Trump
Very tough negotiators. It takes a long time. I'm in no hurry. I'd like to say I'm in a hurry because, you know, gasoline prices are
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Mike Pence
going to come tumbling down.
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Donald Trump
But if you're going to be in a hurry, you're not going to make a good deal.
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Kristen Welker
As the conflict drags on, the economic fallout is growing here at home with inflation rising to its highest level in three years, all of it putting more pressure on President Trump ahead of the midterms in places where Republicans may be vulnerable. This week, the Cook Political Report moved the Texas Senate race from likely Republican to lead Republican after Trump backed candidate Attorney General Ken Paxton defeated longtime incumbent Senator John Cornyn. Paxton will face Democrat James Talarico in November. Democrats who haven't won a Texas Senate race since 1988 now see an opening. But President Trump insists politics isn't driving his thinking on Iran.
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Donald Trump
They thought they were going to outweigh me. You know, we'll outweigh him. He's got the midterms. I don't care about the midterms.
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Kristen Welker
Joining me now is former Vice President Mike Pence. He's the author of the new book what Conservatives Rediscovering the conservative conscience. Mr. Vice President, welcome back to Meet the Press.
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Mike Pence
Thank you, Chris. It's good to be back.
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Kristen Welker
It's wonderful to have you here, have your book. We're gonna talk about it in just a moment. I do wanna start, though, on Texas, this big political shakeup this week. Ken Paxton now the Republican nominee. Of course, what happens in Texas could help to determine whether Repub hold on to control of the Senate. Republicans themselves, though, have raised ethical, moral, even strategic concerns about Attorney General Ken Paxton. Do you believe that Ken Paxton as the nominee could put the Texas Senate seat in jeopardy for Republicans?
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Mike Pence
Well, I have great confidence in Republicans in Texas and maintaining the majority in The Senate is enormously important in a midterm election where it's going to be going to be an uphill battle in the House of Representatives, although I'm proud of the effort Republicans are making in that regard as well. But look, I see all of this as evidence of, you know, the President Trump has enormous popularity in the Republican Party. His endorsement in Texas, his endorsement in Louisiana, his endorsements in Indiana prove that out. And I think the reason the president is popular is because during our time in office and over the last several years, people have seen this is a president who's been willing to fight radical left and to champion the principles that have defined our party for 50 years. And I'm grateful for that. But the reason I wrote the book is because there's a new threat to that historic conservatism in the Republican Party and it's a threat from the populist right that would embrace big government. The policies, many of which have been embraced by this administration, of not only broad based tariffs, nationalization of businesses, price controls. There's also been a willingness to embrace some of the rhetoric of the populist right with regard to isolationism. There are voices that have pulled us back from unwavering support as leader of the free world, particularly in Eastern Europe, and even many challenging our support for Israel. And then lastly, just marginalizing the right to life, which has always been at the center of our movement. So for me, I'm not surprised by what happened in Texas or in the other primaries because of the way the President has championed our cause against the radical left. But I want people to understand what conservatives believe as we go into this midterm election. I'd love to see Republicans get back to running on those conservative principles again. And in 2028, I think it'll be more important to decide what we're for before we decide who we're for.
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Kristen Welker
Well, you talk about the case for conservative principles, and I'm going to read some of your book in just a moment. But you also talk about the importance of charact, that character matters in public service. Ken Paxton was indicted on security fraud charges in 2015. He was impeached by members of his own party over alleged bribery in 2023. His wife filed for divorce in 2025 after accusing him of adultery. Bottom line. Mr. Vice President, do you support Ken Paxton?
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Mike Pence
Well, I could never if I was voting in Texas, I could never vote for the Democrat nominee. Talarico, who is a radical left, supports abortion on demand.
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Kristen Welker
But do you support Ken Paxton?
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Mike Pence
Do you gender ideology of the Democratic Party. Look, I think in many respects Republicans have lost our way, but Democrats have lost their mind. And I think the reason why we're going to hold the Senate and we have a real shot to hold the House, is because of the extremism on the Democratic side. I mean, you literally have candidates, not just the mayor of New York, with some of the most prominent voices in the party that are openly advocating for socialist policies and socialism itself. And I think that's the reason why this election is so important. But it's also the reason why I think there's an enormous opportunity ahead for Republicans to be a choice, not an echo, as President Ronald Reagan said back in the day, is to literally say as they go farther and farther to the progressive left, the answer ought not to be the antidote of the populist right of protectionism, isolationism and marginalizing the right to life. The answer ought to be to sound, as the Bible says, a clear call for conservative principles. And that's what I'm going to be advocating in this book and across the country.
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Kristen Welker
Now, let's talk big picture because Senator John Cornyn's defeat is the latest. You talked about this string of losses. Bill Cassidy, Congressman Thomas Massie, several Indiana state senators. Senator Lindsey Graham was on this program several weeks ago. He told me the Republican Party is the party of Donald Trump. Is the Republican Party the party of Donald Trump?
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Mike Pence
Oh, I don't think there's any question about the President's popularity. I give him all the credit in the world for the, the hold that he has on Republican voters. But I, I maintain to you that it's because of the President's commitment to take on the radical left in our four years and, and also ever since. But I think what's lesser known right now is the way this second Trump administration has depart the conservative agenda that we governed on, the conservative agenda that has defined the Republican Party since the days of Ronald Reagan and before. And that's an agenda of American leadership, limited government, free market economics, the right to life. And on a number of those issues, the President's been good. I want to give him credit for securing the border, the extending tax cuts, standing with Israel. But when you see an administration with broad based tariffs nationalizing American, American businesses, questioning and pulling back from our allies as they endure the brutal assault in Eastern Europe from Russia, I think Republicans would do well to take some time to reflect on what we believe again and take that message to the American people.
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Kristen Welker
Is there room right now, Mr. Vice President, in the Republican Party for disagreement.
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Mike Pence
Well, in primaries there's a little less room.
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Kristen Welker
What about general elections? You're making a robust case against populism. What about broadly speaking?
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Mike Pence
I think there's. I think that we're living in a time of extraordinary change in both political parties. You literally see the Democratic Party being dragged off not just to the radical left, but to socialist policies and extremism on social issues. But in the Republican Party there are these fault lines. And, but I still believe, Kristen, that the overwhelming majority of people that ever vote Republican, believe in freedom, believe in limited government, believe in traditional values. And I think if Republicans this fall and in 2028 hold up those time honored conservative principles, those voters will rally to our cause.
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Kristen Welker
All right, well, let's delve into your book, what Conservatives Believe. I want to read an excerpt. You write this. We face a momentous choice. Will we remain a of conservative beliefs or will we follow the siren song of populism unmoored to conservative principles? The future of our party, our movement, and even our country belongs to one or the other. It cannot belong to both. The divide between these two factions is too vast. Republicans must pick a side. Strong words there, Mr. Vice President. Is your book effectively a rejection of the MAGA movement?
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Mike Pence
Well, not at all. You know, Kristen, I spoke in front of more MAGA rallies than I could possibly remember. And these were some of the most freedom loving, patriotic, God fearing, conservative Americans that I ever met. And they still are. I mean, I understand the loyalty to the president. I understand their the desire to support him in primary elections and to stand by while he pushes back on the radical left. But I believe that the overwhelming majority of people in the MAGA movement believe that America is the leader of the free world, believe in limited government, less taxes, less regulations, would reject ideas like nationalization of businesses and price controls and broad based tariffs. And at the core of our movement is a commitment to the sanctity of life. I mean, we had the most pro life administration in American history. We, we put the judges on the court who sent Roe vs. Wade to the ash heap of history where it belongs. But Kristin, in this administration we see a desire to relegate the right to life to a state only issue to actually have a pro abortion secretary of HHS who has done nothing to limit the availability of the abortion pill on a mail order basis that Joe Biden made possible across the country. Dangerous pill claims, unborn lives is a danger to women. So when you see the administration embracing those populist ideas, I think we're going to Have a fulsome debate about the future.
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Kristen Welker
Okay. And we should say there is a debate over the medical background to what you're saying. But let's stay on this topic. Look, you ran for president against Donald Trump in 2024, arguing that he put himself above the Constitution on January 6th. And I guess my question is, do you believe that President Trump is a populist and that the party needs to move beyond Donald Trump?
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Mike Pence
Well, I'm not much for labels, but I do say in the book that I lost count on the number of times that I would say to the president privately, well, that's the conservative position. And he'd wave his hand and say, he'd say it's not conservative. It's just common sense. I mean, in fairness to the president, he's never really said he was a conservative. And in so many ways, I think he's, you know, he, he represents in some measure what the populist right is about. The populist right is attempting to take the President's departure from the conservative agenda, whether it be on tariffs, whether it be with regard to Ukraine and Eastern Europe, whether it be regard to life, and try to make that the new foundational philosophy of the Republican Party.
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Kristen Welker
So are you saying it's time for Republicans to move beyond Donald Trump?
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Mike Pence
Well, look, you know, as I wrote in the book, leaders fade into history, but principles endure. And I truly do believe that Republicans deserve to know that there is a populist right movement. Some of their agenda items the administration has embraced, some they haven't. I mean, I give the president great credit for the way he stood with Israel, stood up to Iran, to the way the president extended all those Trump Pence tax cuts. But where, where he's embraced that populist movement, there's a. I think you could see the Republican Party, if we don't get it right, we're going to end up moving in the progressive direction. And for the sake, not of our party or elections, but for the sake of the country, I believe we have to have a party that's advancing these timeless conservative principles of life and liberty.
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Kristen Welker
Let's talk about the future. A lot of people see Vice President J.D. vance as the potential heir apparent to President Trump. Could Vice President J.D. vance be the type of leader of the conservative movement that you are talking about here?
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Mike Pence
Well, I think that'll be up for voters to decide.
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Kristen Welker
But do you see him as someone who embodies the core conservative principles that you write about in this book?
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Mike Pence
Well, what I'll tell you is my Focus. The focus of the book is I think it's going to be important as we look to 2028 to first focus on what we're for before we focus on who we're for. I mean, when, when I was Vice President, I led in the polls as a potential successor to the President as well. It comes with the office to a certain extent. And the Vice President's been carrying himself in a dignified and honorable way. I respect that. But I think as we go into 2028, my hope, my ambition is that we will have a fulsome debate over whether this populist right agenda, which is a big government Republican agenda that marginalizes values, that pulls back from American leadership in the world, is who are or whether we're going to return to those time honored principles that have defined our party and not just won elections, but won a strong and free and prosperous America.
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Kristen Welker
We're almost out of time. Let's do a little rapid fire here. You've heard about the president's $1.8 billion fund, the so called anti weaponization fund to pay people who say they were unfairly investigated or prosecuted by the government. It's tied up in the courts right now. But Mr. Vice President, should the government, government in any instance compensate people who attacked law enforcement officers on January 6th?
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Mike Pence
Well, look, I think that the weaponization fund is a, it's a bad idea from the start and I would encourage the administration just to drop it. The Justice Department has the ability to settle cases like they did with that pro life family who was put upon during the Biden administration. Got us a well deserved seven figure settlement this week. But, but let's get rid of this fund. I mean, I mean it's, it's deeply offensive to me that, that you could have a fund that could even possibly compensate people who assaulted police officers or vandalized the Capitol on January 6th. And I think that's broadly held by most Republicans and, and most Americans.
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Kristen Welker
Finally, Mr. Vice President, I have to ask you, a year ago I asked you when I had the chance to sit down with you if you would ever consider running for president again. You told me, quote, I don't see that in my future. Are you ruling out a run in 2028?
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Mike Pence
Well, look, I like to say to people my life is not my own. I'm a man of faith and Karen and I will pray about the future. But I have no active ambition to re enter politics. As Luke Combs says in the song I think I Rode that Rocket about as far as it can fly. This book for me is all about trying to play a role now in my party to be a champion for the conservative principles that drew me to the Republican Party to begin with. Their principles of a commitment to limited government, the rule of law, American leadership in the world, traditional moral values. I want to champion those principles with what remains in my bully pulpit. And we'll let the future take care of itself.
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Kristen Welker
All right. Well, we'll keep the conversation going. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you so very much for being here in person. Thank you.
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Mike Pence
Thank you, Kristen.
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Kristen Welker
Really appreciate it. Always great to see you. When we come back, Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky joins me next.
- [20:23]
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Uncrustables Podcast Host
It's the Smuckers Uncrustables podcast with your host, Uncrustables.
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Uncrustables Host
Okay, Today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust. Thanks for having me. Today's topic, he's round with soft pillowy bread. Hey. Filled with delicious PB and J. Are you talking about yourself? And you can take him anywhere.
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Mike Pence
Why'd you invite.
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Uncrustables Host
And we are out of time. Are you really cutting me off?
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Cosentyx Advertisement Voice
Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich.
- [21:22]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
Sorry, crust.
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Kristen Welker
Dish has been connecting communities like yours
- [21:26]
Mike Pence
for the last 45 years, providing the
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Kristen Welker
TV you love at a price you can trust. Watch live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to DISH today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at 89.99amonth with our two year price guarantee. Call 888-@dish or visit dish.com today. Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky. Governor Beshear, welcome back to MEET press.
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Uncrustables Host
Thanks for having me.
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Kristen Welker
Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. We want to start with the results in Texas this week. Your reaction to Senator Cornyn's loss to Attorney General Ken Paxton. Paxton will now face off against State Senator James Talarico. Democrats have not won a Texas Senate seat, as you know, in more than 30 years. How confident are you the Democrats can actually win this or race.
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Uncrustables Host
Listen, Texas is in play. Democrats have never run against a candidate like Ken Paxton that is so corrupt that his own party impeached him. This is someone who does not have the character. I'll say it. Since Vice President Pence won't to serve as AG or even as dog catcher, this is somebody who would use his office to enrich himself. That would be a rubber stamp for the president and would do nothing for the people of Texas. He has shown that as AG, he cannot be the next US Senator there. And James Talarico is out there. He is spreading his message about being there for American families, about putting them ahead of the politics, about bringing down prices, expanding access to health care, making sure they feel safe in their community. Those things that make life just a little bit better and a little bit easier as the Trump administration is making things so much harder.
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Kristen Welker
Well, Governor Beshear, let's talk about James Talarico as a candidate. As you know, Ken Paxton's campaign already has attack ads out hitting him over past comments on race, gender, religion. Take a look at one of them.
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Mike Pence
This is Texas.
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Kristen Welker
This is not.
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Uncrustables Podcast Host
There are many more than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six.
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Mike Pence
This is Texas. This is not.
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Uncrustables Podcast Host
The American flag is such a complicated
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Donald Trump
symbol for most of us.
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Mike Pence
This is Texas.
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Kristen Welker
This is not.
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Uncrustables Host
They're gonna call me a radical leftist.
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Mike Pence
This is Texas.
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Kristen Welker
This is not something that you love. That's not family or friends.
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Uncrustables Podcast Host
I love and just say this because it's on my mind. The trans children.
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Kristen Welker
So let me ask you. Talarico now says he did miss the mark on some of those statements. You've previously said Democrats need to shy away from what you have referred to as advocacy speak. Do you place those comments by James Talarico into that category of advocacy? What would your counsel be to him?
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Uncrustables Host
Well, I think what you've got here is a candidate in Ken Paxton that knows he has nothing to offer. And so what does he do? He simply attacks his opponent over and over. James Talarico is out there showing the values of loving your neighbor as yourself. And the parable of the Good Samaritan that says that everyone is our neighbor. He's trying to support Americans of all types to be less judgmental. Why? Because the Bible tells us to judge not lest ye be judged. But we heard it from Mike Pence, too. When asked about a corrupt candidate in Ken Paxton and whether he could support him, all he did is turn and attack Democrats. That's not very Christian of him. But it's also not a very good strategy.
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Kristen Welker
Let's talk about the message that we are hearing from you. You spoke at South Carolina Palmetto Dinner Friday night. I want to play a little bit of that speech and do some analysis on the other side.
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Uncrustables Host
And while all this is painful that we're seeing from the Trump administration, it is providing us a huge opportunity for Democrats to go out and regain the trust of the American people, to be the party of common sense, common ground and getting things done. Democrats can win again by taking back the middle and it is there for the taking.
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Kristen Welker
Governor, as you know, there's a lot of energy with the progressive left right now. How can Democrats both, as you say, take back the middle without alienating progressives?
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Uncrustables Host
Well, I, I don't think a lot about progressive or moderate. I think about the American people. The way that Democrats win regardless of, of, of what box they're put into by the media is to focus on the daily lives of our people. It's the idea that when most Americans wake up in the morning, they're not thinking about the next election. They're thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family. They're thinking about their next doctor's appointment for themselves, their parents or their kids. They're thinking about the roads and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off of at and whether they feel safe in their community. Regardless of what part of the Democratic Party you fall in, if you believe in the American dream, if you want to make sure that it's viable again, if you want to bring down the age of first time homeownership, which right now is about 40 years old, then there is opportunity out there. The American people are struggling. Donald Trump said he'd bring prices down, but his tariffs have skyrocketed. Them is an illegal tax on the American people. His war in Iran has the price of gasoline and diesel through the roof, which is making everything more expensive. Is big ugly bill is ripping health care away from rural communities and taking food off the table of Americans. Where the Democratic Party needs to be is one that focuses really on those nonpartisan issues. If we're going to make your life a little bit better, whether you are a Democrat, a Republican or an independent, we know the world is too tough right now and it's our job to do better.
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Kristen Welker
I want to ask you about one of the big headlines for Democrats this week, former first lady Jill Biden speaking out out weighing in on that disastrous debate performance by former President Joe Biden back in 2024. Take a look at what she said, were you horrified as you saw it unfold? I wasn't horrified. I was frightened because I had never ever seen Joe like that before or since. Never since? Yes. Or since. Never seen him? Never? No. What happened? I don't know what happened. I mean, when I, as I watched it, I thought, oh, my God, he's having a stroke. And it scared me to death. This is a sharp contrast to what the former first lady said publicly in the aftermath of the debate. Take a look, Joe. You did such a great job. You answered every question. You knew all the facts. Did former first lady Jill Biden misleading lead the American people? Governor?
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Uncrustables Host
Well, what I see is a first lady that loves her husband, that is fiercely protective, and I'm not going to criticize that. We were all concerned when we saw that debate. This was a president who governed in a way that helped my state, that helped me bring in a significant number of jobs, that's helping me build a bridge that people said no one would ever build in their lifetime between Northern Kentucky and Ohio. But I think it's fair to look back now, given that Joe Biden did drop out and say he shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place. You can both compliment him for things he did that helped your state and your people, but also be able to look back and know that was a decision that should have been made differently.
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Kristen Welker
And what are the broader lessons do you think that Democrats should take from that moment, Governor?
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Uncrustables Host
Well, the lesson that I primarily take is the lesson from the end of the 2024 campaign pain, and that's that most American struggles are are similar. It's about paying the bills at the end of the week and the end of the month. It's about people starting to feel that the economic system is rigged. Why? Because they're working hard. They're playing by the rules. They should get ahead, but they're falling behind. They can't take their kids on the same vacation that their parents took them on. They're worried about whether they can leave their kids better off. That's the party that we have to be, one that spends 80% of its time focused on things that matter to 100% of the American people. Yes, we stand up for all our principles. Yes, we should push back against discrimination every time we see it. But 80% of our time spent on things that matter to 100% of the American people. That means voters can say, I might not agree with you on this or that issue, but I know you're going to work hard to make my life better.
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Kristen Welker
Let me ask you about this nationwide debate over redistricting, including South Carolina, which will of course be one of the first states to vote in 2028. Efforts to redraw South Carolina's maps ahead of the midterms fail failed this week. But it does not eliminate the chances of redistricting in 2028. Do you support a national ban on partisan redistricting?
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Uncrustables Host
I do. But let me first say I'm proud to be in South Carolina, the state that said no thanks to Donald Trump's redistricting. And yes, please, to more governance by Jim Clyburn. The soul and the conscience of the US Congress, having his voice there is so critical. And the idea that basically through Che, he would try to eliminate that important member of Congress. And by the way, he would have won in any district. But proud of this state for what it did. You know, I think it's time for more than just banning partisan redistricting. I think it's time for a fix the darn country constitutional amendment. That way we can enshrine in our constitution that you're not allowed to draw districts. This way we can overturn Citizens United and get big corporate money out of politics. We ought to have term limits even for the Supreme Court so that we don't see what we are seeing right now. And people trying to game when they retire to have somebody else on for 30 or 40 years. People deserve better governance. And what we've seen is our three branches of government on the federal level break down. It's time to take some bold action to where our people can see and can trust this system.
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Kristen Welker
And I misspoke. I think I said your state of South Carolina. What I meant to say is you've been in South Carolina this weekend, including for Jim Clyburn's fish fry this weekend. Historically, of course, a gathering for presidential hopefuls before they had announced that they're running for president. I've asked you this question before. You have not ruled it out. Where are you in your decision making process, Governor? Are you leaning toward a run?
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Uncrustables Host
I'm the same place that I've been fully focused on 2026 because as the head of the Democratic Governors association, we're gonna elect Democratic governors where people aren't expecting it. And we're gonna change the map for 28. When we flip Iowa, Iowa's in play in 28. When we flip Ohio, it's in play in 28. I was just down with Doug Jones in Al. The primary turnout there for Democrats doubled from four years ago. Keisha Lance Bottoms won a primary going away and is an incredibly strong candidate.
- [32:43]
Kristen Welker
Governor, you sounded a lot like a candidate. You sounded a lot like a candidate in South Carolina. Is it fair to say you're thinking about it seriously?
- [32:52]
Uncrustables Host
Well, I haven't ruled it out, but I haven't sat down and had that conversation with my family. I'm trying to fire up Democrats to be a voice of reason in the chaos. It is so important that we win right now. And let me just say, as a Southern democracy, Democratic Governor, to be able to give voice to Southern Democrats being left out, left behind, sometimes looked down on, but scrapping our way back to a seat at the table. Three Southern Democratic governors, two Southern Democratic senators, and another one on the way in, Roy Cooper. So whether I'm in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, like I am right now, I just want to make sure the south has an important place in the Democratic Party.
- [33:27]
Kristen Welker
All right, Governor Bashir, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Appreciate it.
- [33:33]
Uncrustables Host
Thank you.
- [33:34]
Kristen Welker
And when we come back, warning signs are emerging for the GOP as they head into the midterms. Our panel is next.
- [33:46]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
It's the Smuckers Uncrustables podcast with your host, Uncrustables.
- [33:52]
Uncrustables Host
Okay. Today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust. Thanks for having me. Today's topic, he's round with soft, pillowy bread. Hey. Filled with delicious PB and J. Are you talking about yourself? And you can take them anywhere.
- [34:06]
Mike Pence
Why'd you invite.
- [34:07]
Uncrustables Host
And we are out of time. Are you really cutting me off?
- [34:12]
Kristen Welker
Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich.
- [34:15]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
Sorry, crust.
- [34:16]
Kristen Welker
I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Cosentix advocate chef Michelle Bernstein.
- [34:22]
Cyndi Lauper
We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [34:30]
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- [35:17]
Kristen Welker
university, we help students like you go from will I to why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education to make it more affordable, accessible and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking can I? To Yes, I can and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and assist many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia. Welcome back. The panel is here. Garrett Hake, newly named chief White House correspondent for NBC News Leanne Caldwell, chief Washington correspondent for puck, former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings of Florida, and Steven Hayes, CEO and editor of the Dispatch. Welcome all. Garrett, congratulations.
- [36:07]
Garrett Haake
Thank you.
- [36:07]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
Thank you.
- [36:08]
Kristen Welker
Really thrilled for for you in this new role. Let's start off by talking about your home state of Texas. Yeah. And you heard both the former vice president and the governor kind of weigh in on how they see this race unfolding. The governor saying Texas is now in play. Do you think? And based on your conversations, could this seat be in jeopardy for Republicans?
- [36:31]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
Look, I think it's gonna be a very attractive target for Democrats. The path to the majority, you know, starts in Maine and North Carolina for Democrats, but then they' to pick up a win somewhere else. Is it Ohio? Is it Alaska? Is it Texas? Texas would be by far the most expensive. It has been one of the reddest states in the country. But the elements you would need for it to finally have a Democratic statewide victory, some of them are there, unpopular president, midterm election and a candidate who Democrats think they can really run against and pull some of those kind of like squishy Republican suburban voters who just cannot hold their nose and vote for Ken Paxton. The opportunity is there, but it's going to be incredibly expensive and as I think some of these ads have already shown, incredibly nasty.
- [37:14]
Kristen Welker
Yeah. So Senator John Cornyn, Leah, now joins this caucus on Capitol Hill, referred to as the YOLO caucus, you only Live Once caucus or the Wounded Bear Caucus. How did Trump's endorsement of Ken Paxton land with those Republicans and Republicans on the Hill broadly.
- [37:32]
Leanne Caldwell
Yeah. It, it, this one hurt. Senator John Cornyn is a beloved member of, of that Republican conference. He's a former member of leadership. He has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for his fellow Republicans. And the fact that Donald Trump endorsed against him not only because he's more ideologically aligned with Ken Paxton and perhaps characteristically aligned with Ken Paxton, but also because he was mad at Senate Republicans for not giving him the money for his ballroom. And so there was some retribution in that. And so what this does actually, I've been talking to a lot of senators and senior Republic, and this actually impacts the rest of their agenda. They are not happy. And this, everything could actually be stalled on the Hill because of it.
- [38:19]
Kristen Welker
Well, the stakes are so significant. Steve Hayes, how do you see this battle playing out in Texas? Garrett makes the point. Yep, Democrats are going to be eyeing it. It's still very uphill. But just how nervous are Republicans, particularly because they're going to have to divert so many resources from battlegrounds?
- [38:34]
Donald Trump
I mean, I think that's probably the biggest concern of Republicans right now is if you're running in, you know, in, in Nebraska, in some of these other states that are likely to be competitive, you're gonna see money go to Texas to support Ken Paxton, who, as Leanne points out, these Republicans are not excited about. I think in addition to the squishy Republicans that Garrett mentions in Texas who might be tempted to vote for James Talarico, there's another big group of Texas Republicans who are principled conservatives, and they're not partisans first, they're not Republicans first. They believe stuff and they look at somebody like Ken Paxton who's a walking scandal, and they say, I don't want anything to do. I don't want to have to support him. I don't want to. I'm not going to go to the polls to vote for him. I think that's another group that could affect the outcome of the race.
- [39:20]
Kristen Welker
Yeah, you could feel the former vice president's discomfort in trying to defend him. Val, I want to ask you about another controversial candidate for Democrats. You talked about Maine, Graham Platner. I'm going to just read from my notes because I want to get it right. He's faced a series of controversies, including past posts about sexual assault, a tattoo that resembled a Nazi symbol that he had covered up right before he ran, by the way, and now sexually explicit texts with other women despite being married. Does Graham Platner pose a headache for Democrats?
- [39:55]
Cyndi Lauper
Well, let me go back to Texas for just a moment. Cornyn was a beloved candidate, beloved by Republicans in Washington and in Texas. I'm not sure that candidate flaws matter as much as they used to. Millions of dollars were sent to spent to save Cornyn. Didn't work. Paxton won by a landslide. But the bottom line is Platner, he's a combat veteran, has served in multiple Tours of duty, an oyster farmer. And I believe that sends a message to voters that he understands the working class had to go to work every day. I think people are so worried about the future right now, they're going to look at do I feel like this candidate is going to fight for me and what I care about. If Maine believes that through all of the controversy as we so at Paxton Platner will win.
- [40:50]
Donald Trump
This is where people I think are so people, normal people watching this at home are so frustrated with the level of toxic partisanship where you've got somebody who's, you know, has to defend. You've got Democrats who are defending Graham Platner, who are calling him a good and decent man and arguing that the guy with the Nazi tattoo, we really need him because he has to defeat Susan Collins, one of the most bipartisan members of Congress in the past couple decades, who voted to convict Donald Trump. But it's so important. We have to have Graham Platner. We have to have somebody who savaged military veterans, said that a military veteran who was being shot at deserved to die, who's blamed rape victims for their own assaults. And you've now got a Democratic Party rallying around somebody like that.
- [41:35]
Cyndi Lauper
Paxton is not your model candidate. I mean, let's don't fool ourselves. We could go throughout Washington, D.C. right now and find people from the administration, from the Oval Office on down who are not model people. But I think the suffering of the American people has reached a level where they're willing to go with the person who they think hears them and sees them.
- [41:58]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
I put a button on this, though. I do think this conversation is a microcosm of what we're going to see going into the fall, where you have Democrats and Republicans who would both be able to say what about the other guy? Which has become one of our most popular tropes in political discussion also. We'll see what happens in November. But I also think this is more evidence to the degree which Donald Trump has kind of blown the curb when it comes to scandal. Right. The kind of things that used to be disqualifying for candidates are now two day stories.
- [42:22]
Kristen Welker
Is that the moment that we're in Leanne, where scandals, as the congresswoman is saying, no longer carry the same weight.
- [42:29]
Leanne Caldwell
Absolutely. I was talking to some partner supporters who said exactly that. Well, what about Donald Trump? They're his voters. Look the other way. Why can't we look the other way? So there is the standard out there that that doesn't exist anymore for, for the bases. But what matters is the voters in the middle, the ones, the swing voters, the independent voters who are going to to decide many of these elections.
- [42:51]
Donald Trump
If I can just say real quickly, that's true of people in Washington and people who are in red jerseys or blue jerseys. I didn't say that. I said Ken Paxton is a walking scandal. I think it's a problem for a lot of Republicans. It's those people, those Republicans and normal Democrats across the country who look at the debate in Washington and say, what is this? Why do you. I don't. Why do you have to defend Ken Paxton? Why do you have to defend Graham Flattner?
- [43:13]
Kristen Welker
Well, great conversation. Stick around. Exactly. We're going to keep the conversation going. So don't go anywhere. When we come back, Democrats believe they have their best chance in years to win a Texas Senate seat. As we were just discussing the last Democrat to do it. We'll show you our MEET THE PRESS minute is next. Welcome back. Ken Paxton's victory in the Texas Republican Senate primary has sparked a question. Can a Democrat win a Texas Senate seat? The last to do it was Lloyd Benson in 1988, even as he lost his bid for vice president on the Democratic ticket with Michael Dukakis. Benson joined MEET the Press in 1976 while running both for president and for Senate re election. He was asked how he balanced appealing to Texas voters while seeking national office. Senator Benson, a story in the New York Times says that you're being accused
- [44:15]
Mike Pence
of trying to be a conservative in
- [44:17]
Kristen Welker
Texas and a liberal nationally.
- [44:20]
Mike Pence
Just what is your political philosophy? Well, if you look at these rating organizations, I think you'll find that I don't wear any of their collars. I have not looked at issues and tried to resolve them on some ideological belief. I think people are fed up with that. I look at an issue and ask myself three questions. Questions, Will it work? Do we need it? Can we afford it? If I believe that, I vote for it and if I believe otherwise, I vote against it. And I think that's what the people of Texas want and I think that's what the people of the nation want.
- [44:52]
Kristen Welker
When we come back, presidential health is back in the headlines for both Republicans and Democrats. More with the panel next. I don't know what happened. I mean, when I, as I watched it, I thought, oh, my God, he's having a stroke. And it scared me to death. Welcome back. The panel is still here. Leanne. Boy, so striking to hear the former first lady talk about that disastrous debate performance. There's been a lot of blowback within The Democratic Party, what are you hearing?
- [45:23]
Leanne Caldwell
This is exactly not what they wanted to hear about this or when they didn't die. They don't want to relive this at all. They are trying to look forward. The Democratic Party has had a really tough year. Trump is now finally making their political lives a little bit easier. But, you know, they just, just came off a post presidential election where donors weren't giving. There was no leadership in the party. The DNC is in shambles, which it still is. And they are trying to put this party together and look forward to 2026 and then again to 2028. And they do not want to be talking about Joe Biden.
- [45:58]
Kristen Welker
Joe Biden, Congresswoman, what was your reaction to seeing that? And what kind of reaction are you hearing amongst your colleagues?
- [46:04]
Cyndi Lauper
You know, I didn't know what happened either. I was surprised at the time, timing from the former first Lady. But the bottom line is I believe that it was something, you know, a lot of people are asking, why would she do it now? I think it was something that was very heavy on her heart because of the attention that it received. It involves her husband. Just like I think the reason Melania Trump came out about the Epstein files is because it was something heavy on her heart that she wanted to talk about. First lady said she didn't know what happened. She had never seen that behavior before. She thought he was having a stroke. She was scared to death. I believe her. She's not in the situation room with him. She's not in Cabinet meetings with him. You know, and I think she needed to do this for her own satisfaction and to try to move forward in terms of Democrats. Democrats have got to run their race in tough situations regardless of this moment. They need to run their race focusing on the issues in their states and in their districts. Move on.
- [47:05]
Kristen Welker
Steve, you're shaking your head.
- [47:06]
Donald Trump
Yeah, I don't believe her for a second. I think she's lying. And I think if you had a family member and you've been through this with somebody, you want to feel sympathy for Joe Biden. But you can't anymore because we had had at that point the her report, which was five hours of recordings where Joe Biden was relentlessly confused, couldn't remember his when he served as vice president, couldn't remember when Beau Biden died again and again and again. And this wasn't a surprise to Jill Biden. You had the White House staff revamping its schedule, scheduling the president at certain times to accommodate his problems. You had the speechwriting team taking Entirely different approaches to speeches because Joe Bide was so diminished. It's nonsense. And I think the problem is it's not just a reminder about Joe Biden. It's a reminder that Democrats, broadly the party, pulled one of the worst cover ups in American history by pretending that Joe Biden was something that he wasn't.
- [48:01]
Cyndi Lauper
I think the first lady is different, though. This is not staff. This is not, you know, somebody in his Cabinet. It is the first lady. And I think it makes a difference.
- [48:11]
Kristen Welker
Well, Garrett, as we're having this conversation, the president's health is in the spotlight, about to turn 80 years old. He just had another visit to Walter Reed. What were your takeaways from that report that came out?
- [48:24]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
Well, that was interesting. This was his third visit in about 13 months, which in and of itself is unusual. Though he is a man now about to turn 80 years old. The report itself that came out from his physician was mostly fairly innocuous. It said he gained about 14 pounds in the last year. Talked about some of the more visible kind of health issues he's had. The bruising on his hand, which had attributed to handshaking, and his high dose of aspirin, which we've kind of known about. The swelling in his legs, which this report says have actually gone. I mean, to me, the most interesting thing about this report was that they dropped it in the middle of the night going into a weekend. There's nothing in this that's particularly scandalous or even particularly interesting, but it shows the degree to which this White House does not wanna be having this conversation about presidential health. The president likes to present himself as this incredibly robust, healthy figure. He loves to brag about the cognitive tests which this report says he took. Again, but beyond that, they don't wanna be talking about anything age or health related if they can avoid it.
- [49:17]
Kristen Welker
Leigh Ann, you're out on the trail to talking to voters. Do voters care about the president's health, this president's health, or any president's health? How focused are they on that issue?
- [49:26]
Leanne Caldwell
Well, with Joe Biden, they absolutely cared. It's a big reason why they didn't, you know, elect Kamala Harris and why Democrats lost the election. They feel like they were lied to. And I think that ultimately, if the. If the president's performance of the job is being impacted, then they absolutely care. This president, though, is still extremely active. He is in front of the press every single day. So if he is having health problems, he is not showing it to an extent that Biden did.
- [50:00]
Kristen Welker
Dave, as you know, and Garrett referenced that there have been the marks on his hands. The swelling report did address that. But are there conversations inside Republican circles? Any concerns about those signs?
- [50:11]
Donald Trump
Yeah, I think there are concerns. I mean, look, I think the president, in an odd way, sort of gets the benefit of the doubt because he's been saying sort of crazy things and non sequiturs for more than a decade. So people hear him do that now and they don't say, oh, this a sign of diminished mental acuity. Having said that, it's hard to know what to believe in the report because as Garrett points out, it comes out in the middle of the night. They say that his swelling has improved since last year, but last year they said there was no swelling and that
- [50:36]
Uncrustables Host
they weren't going to treat it, that
- [50:37]
Uncrustables Podcast Host
they weren't going to follow the recommendations of the doctor.
- [50:39]
Kristen Welker
Yeah. All right, guys, great conversation. Thank you all so much for being here. And finally this Sunday morning, we are so excited to share some very big news here at MEET the Press. Next month, we're bringing MEET the MOMENT LIVE to New York City and we will on Monday, June 29, I'll sit down with Academy Award nominated actress, producer and mental health advocate Taraji P. Henson at our venue sponsor, City Winery for what promises to be a candid and inspiring conversation. We will talk about her journey from being a single mom to Hollywood star with unforgettable roles in Hustle and Flow and Hidden Figures and the hit series Empire. We'll also discuss her work to expand access to mental health healthcare in underserved communities. Tickets are limited, so head to meetthepress.com now or scan the QR code on your screen. You see it right there to reserve your spot. We do hope you will join us. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's MEET the press.
- [52:18]
Garrett Haake
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