Melanie Zenona (Host) (2:48)

Swalwell's attorney just releasing a statement saying in part, Congressman Eric Swalwell categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been leveled against him. These accusations are false, fabricated, and deeply offensive. A calculated and transparent political hit job designed to destroy the reputation of a man who has spent 20 years in public service. We should note that Swallow did apologize for what he called mistakes in judgment in his resignation announcement. House Speaker Mike Johnson and Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries today, both responding to Swalwell's decision to leave office.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:25)

Can we get your reaction to the

Kelly O'Donnell (NBC White House Correspondent) (3:26)

decision by Gonzalez and Swalwell to resign? Do you believe they made the right decision?

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:30)

I do. I mean, the, you know, my views have been made known about the terrible

Melanie Zenona (Host) (3:38)

allegations that were made and obviously the

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:39)

facts that they both admitted to.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (3:41)

And I think it was the appropriate thing.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:43)

Could you push Swallow to resign?

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (3:45)

Member conversations that I've had will remain private.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:47)

Do you think Biden call for him publicly to resign?

Melanie Zenona (Host) (3:50)

Given these allegations?

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (3:51)

He's made the right decision.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (3:54)

The allegations against Swalwell, who was a 2020 presidential candidate, a Trump impeachment manager, and until this weekend, a top candidate for governor in California, have rattled others on Capitol Hill. That includes Senator Ruben Gallego, who was close friends with Swalwell and chaired his 2020 presidential campaign. Gallego today responding to questions about what

Senator Ruben Gallego (4:15)

he knew and when Eric Swell lied to all of us, he lied to the most powerful people in this country. And they trusted him. They trust him in some most sensitive spots in our government, whether it was on Judiciary Committee, intel Committee, impeaching Donald Trump. And that clouded my judgment, my friendship with him, our family's friendship together with him clouded my judgment. And I was wrong. I deeply, deeply regret that. I also had no knowledge of predatory behavior, sexual assault or harassment.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (4:53)

NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles joins me now, along with NBC's Camilla Bernal in Los Angeles and NBC News legal analyst Misty Maris. Ryan, I do want to start with you over on Capitol Hill. It's just been quite a stunning a few days over on Capitol Hill. Let's start with Eric Swalwell, though, and his resignation. What specifically led to his decision to step down. Walk us through all of that.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (5:18)

It just became just a mountain of accusations against him and an unbelievable pressure campaign that just seemed to be too much for Swalwell to handle. And there was a very concerted effort here, one that I think was real, to pair the beginning of an ethics investigation with a potential expulsion resolution. Now, there was always the chance that that expulsion resolution may have been tabled pending the results of that ethics investigation. But it seemed as though, especially given the fact that there was also a Republican expulsion mentioned, a potential expulsion resolution connected to a Republican and Tony Gonzalez that you could pair with it, that there might have been enough support for that expulsion measure just to go through. And it became clear that Swalwell just did not want to deal with that anymore. So instead of going through that whole process, especially given the fact that he was not coming back to his congressional seat under any circumstance at the end of this term, Swalwell just decided to end everything today, effectively ending that congressional ethics investigation, but certainly not ending the legal trouble he is now facing.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (6:20)

Yeah, no doubt, Ryan. The Allegations against him seem to be impacting some of his fellow Democrats, specifically those who have been close to him. What can you tell us?

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (6:29)

You know, Melanie, up until about the middle of last week, there were many Democrats that were still rushing to the defense of Eric Swalwell. You'll remember that there was a social media influencer campaign that for weeks, maybe even months, had been floating the idea of these rumors connected to Swalwell and his misconduct, but they had yet to reveal any specific information. During that period of time, many of his fellow Democrats rushed to his defense, including Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego. Well, today Gallego, actually, after calling for him to be expelled right before Swalwell resigned, said over and over again in a very tense 40 minute press conference that he had been lied to by Eric Swalwell and even admitted that Swalwell's misdeeds because of their close connection could impact his political future. Listen to this back and forth with our Julie Cirkuit.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (7:22)

Congressman, you have future political ambitions.

Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (7:24)

How can people trust you to run

Melanie Zenona (Host) (7:25)

for higher office if you didn't know that your best friend was engaging in even inappropriate behavior?

Senator Ruben Gallego (7:30)

Look, I messed up. I'm human. I trusted this man. I trusted him to watch my children. I would watch his children. He knew that I had just gone through the most bruising campaign where I was accused of being a mule for the cartel, where I was. My kids were subjected to TV commercials about what an awful human being I was. And he knew how to prey on that. And I was a loyal friend to someone that just was not loyal to me.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (8:00)

Of course, Gallego has flirted with the idea of even running for president in 2028. He's visited some of the early states. He doesn't bat down the speculation surrounding it. But there is a growing campaign of people asking questions about Gallego's association with Swalwell. He made it clear today he knew nothing of his alleged misconduct and was completely taken aback when he learned the details from some of these accusers. Melanie?

Melanie Zenona (Host) (8:26)

Yeah, I assume those questions not going away anytime soon. Camilla, I want to bring you into this conversation. You're in California right now. That's where the latest woman came forward today with some accusations. Walk us through all of that.

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (8:39)

Yeah.

Camilla Bernal (NBC Los Angeles Correspondent) (8:39)

So the accusations were obviously very disturbing and very graphic. To hear the accuser today saying it essentially was a relationship that she thought was a friendship. They had met through social circles because she had a business, she was a model here in Los Angeles, and she thought she could get some help from Eric Swalwell. And essentially what happened was that after two social encounters, she says there was a third encounter. And it was in that third encounter where she believes she was drugged and choked. And she said she essentially felt like she died. And what's important here is that they want a criminal investigation in all of this. The attorneys today saying, look, when you lose your job in Congress, that's not accountability. So they want to see this criminal investigation because they believe that that's how they will get justice in this case. And the accuser admitting that, yes, it took a long time for her to come forward because this happened in 2018, but saying that she does have ev. That she has the text messages, she has that photo with him, she told other people she also saw a therapist. So they believe they have a substantial case against Eric Swalwell. And so we'll see what happens moving forward. But they already went to the LA County Sheriff's Department to try to get that ball rolling, essentially, in terms of the investigation, and we'll see how this all develops. But specifically, they want that criminal investigation.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (10:03)

Mel and Camilla, I need to ask, what is the timeline on that investigation? Do we know what that could potentially look like?

Camilla Bernal (NBC Los Angeles Correspondent) (10:11)

We don't, because first there has to be a report that's made by the L. A Sheriff's Department, and then it's something where the DA will decide if this is something they want to charge and prosecute in the future. So we don't have an exact timeline. And the attorney said if none of this works out, then we might consider civil action as well. But they are primarily focused on the criminal part of all of this first, and then they'll see how this all develops. Because I did ask, you know, what, what is the goal or what do you want? And they're not exactly sure what that looks like, other than the fact that they want authorities to investigate this and see this as something criminal.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (10:50)

And, Ryan, I have to get to this other resignation that just happened today. Tony Gonzalez, he was a Republican from Texas. What kind of pressure was he facing to step down?

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (10:59)

Well, there's no doubt that the Swalwell allegations put an even brighter spotlight on Tony Gonzalez. He was already facing an enormous amount of pressure to leave Congress. Initially, his plan was to stay through the balance of his term. But then once the drumbeat of expulsion surrounding Swalwell started to pick up, it was almost immediately connected to Gonzalez as well. And there was obviously kind of a political exit ramp here for those who didn't want to affect the margins in the House of Representatives between Republicans and Democrats. And the opportunity to vote yes on expulsion for both a Republican and a Democrat and not impact the margins seemed enticing, which was one of the reasons that you thought maybe this is something that could happen even before the ethics investigation went forward. Just like Swalwell, Gonzalez did not appear to want any part of the potential of being expelled from Congress before his term was up. So he just decided to call it quits on his career as well. His career is effectively over at 11:59 tonight.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (11:58)

Yeah. Just a remarkable turn of events over the last 24 hours. Ryan on Capitol Hill, Camilla in California, thank you both so much. I do want to get some legal perspective now with our Misty Maris. Misty, let's start with the new allegations against Swalwell in California. What is the statute of limitations here and what potential charges could he face?

Commercial Announcer (12:17)

So these allegations are from 2018. So the statute of limitations is still in play on the criminal side and the civil when it comes to criminal conduct for a forcible rape, which would be the highest level charges and would fit the bill if the accuser, what she said today in that press conference were to be proved in court. There is no statute of limitations, Mel, that has been extinguished by the state of California, massive changes to the law in 2017. So just a year before she said the allegations took place for lesser sexual assault type offenses that could potentially be at issue. The statute of limitations is 10 years. So still fall within that timeframe to potentially investigate and ultimately charge on the criminal side.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (13:02)

And Missy, the accuser here, her name is Lana Drew. She said she did not file a police report in 2018 when the alleged rape took place, but she did tell people close to her and says she recorded these events in her calendar. So from a legal perspective, talk to me about how important that potential corroborating evidence could be to the case.

Commercial Announcer (13:21)

Anytime you have a case where you have a time that's lapsed significantly, there's going to be a lot of evidence that no longer exist, like medical treatment or video recordings. So that is something that oftentimes comes down to in these cases, he said, she said. So corroborating evidence is key. And what she pointed to in that press conference was a handwritten calendar that she told friends around and family members around that time about these allegations and also therapy notes relating to treatment that she sought. Now all of that would be at play and something investigators would look at. The closer in time to the actual alleged conduct, the more weight it would be given. But all of that is imperative because prosecutors don't do what he said, she said. Who's more credible? What prosecutors need to analyze is whether there's enough evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt. So anything to corroborate one side or the other is going to be imperative to that analysis.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (14:19)

And Missy, her attorney, says they are willing to cooperate with the Manhattan district attorney's office, who is also launching its own investigation into an alleged assault by Swallow from another woman. What do you make of that?

Commercial Announcer (14:30)

Well, we're looking at allegations that are very similar. And whenever you have that, there's going to be an analysis by investigators. And also ultimately, if there are criminal charges about patterns of conduct, we've seen this in other cases. So there could be sharing of information about what is received in the course of these investigations. And all of that could be at issue in both parallel investigations in New York and California. So you're talking about investigations going on on the criminal side in two different states and then other allegations which are relate to these unsolicited pictures and videos through Snapchat. That's a different story, but could still be relevant to the analysis in both jurisdictions as far as that pattern of conduct.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (15:15)

Misty, thank you so much. With me now is Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, a Democrat from Michigan. Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. I do want to start with these disturbing allegations against now former Congressman Eric Swalwell. I just want to get your reaction to his decision and more generally to this moment in Congress, because it really does feel like a reckoning on Capitol Hill.

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (15:37)

Well, it is a reckoning. And what my reaction is is my reaction every time I hear allegations in actually see videos of sexual attacks and staffers placed in these kinds of positions. It's horrific. It shouldn't happen. We shouldn't tolerate it. And we have to make it safe for people to come forward and report what happened. And I think that even the time, for the length of time it took for some of this become public shows you that the MeToo moment wasn't as freeing as everybody felt and that there are consequences when you tell people what happened to you. And unfortunately, that's still reality. So we're I'm glad that he had enough sense to resign so we didn't have to put the House through this and that Tony Gonzalez should have resigned when he admitted to having an affair with the staffer who committed suicide by lighting herself on fire. Republicans should have done what Democrats do, show the colleague, the member, that they will not tolerate this behavior. But is a day of reckoning or I don't know I've been living through a lot of things. I'm not old, but I'm seasoned. I have many of my own stories where you would never have dared come forward. And even when I asked for help, was told, deal with it or leave, we're not there anymore. You don't have to do that. But we still have not gone as far as we want and bad behavior will still continue.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (17:09)

Swala's attorney says that the woman's allegations are fabricated and part of a, quote, calculated and transportation transparent political hit job. What is your reaction to that suggestion that these women are lying?

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (17:23)

So I think the previous lawyer, the legal analyst that just preceded me, talked about patterns. It does sound like many of the women are reporting similar things that happened. I do believe in due process, so that matters. But the congressman himself is admitting to mistakes that he made. People need to understand that when you are in an institution like this, you live in a fishbowl and that you have to live up to a higher standard. And somehow he put himself in a place to be that people have made these allegations. Now, I want to be clear. I never heard anything or I would have gone and confronted him when I was did it. But I'm now hearing from probably more men than women that there were rumors out there for a while. So, you know, people are entitled to due process, but I also think nobody has to put up with it and women are too scared to come forward.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (18:24)

I know you say you haven't heard the rumors, but do you believe that the Democratic leadership had zero idea about any of this? Given that you said there have been rumors circulating for quite a while about

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (18:34)

him, but, you know,

Melanie Zenona (Host) (18:38)

you would really

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (18:39)

be surprised at how everybody thinks that. We all hear everything. But if you're somebody. I don't go out at night. I don't. Since my husband died, I'm never dating again. I don't want to have any. So I work. I go to events and I work. I think that they're a group of people that do talk to each other at night, try to help, relax, have social life and. But I do believe leadership hadn't heard about it because I know them and I think if they had, they would have confronted it. And the one person I know, if she had heard it, would have decimated him, and that's Nancy Pelosi.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (19:17)

I do want to turn to the ongoing shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security. Congressional Republicans are working to fund the department without Democratic votes. Do you think Democrats need to reconsider some concessions in order to not leave the shutdown empty handed.

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (19:31)

Look, I'm going to tell you this point blank. We need guardrails for ice. And it is inexcusable that the Republicans are still playing games and that TSA is not being funded. Proposals have been put out there, the Senate has voted on them. That would fund the tsa, the Coast Guard, fema, which need to be done. And Republicans are trying to put the blame on us. I think the American people think ICE needs guardrails. And when I went through TSA this morning to come back here, they all talked to me. They are hurting, they are scared. Yes. They got partial payments. They're due. They're owed back pay. One of the TSA agents said to me, dad, I can't afford my school loans. I mean, we're organizing food banks. This is inexcusable. We should be. We shouldn't have been out. We should have been here for the last two weeks. And we need to figure out how we're going to get people to keep us safe paid, period. And that's their responsibility as well as ours. But we also need guardrails on ice.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (20:26)

You know, Republicans are talking about funding ICE and CBP and the broader agency now for three years through reconciliation. That would mean no Democratic input for the rest of this Trump administration. Could that not be a worse outcome than if Democrats had come to the table on a compromise?

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (20:42)

Well, one, do you and I know that that reconciliation wish is even going to happen? And two, if we win the House and Senate back, we are going to fight very hard to ensure that we aren't making the TSA and others a ping pong ball in all of this, but to go back and undo damage that we are seeing, starting with the big bad bill.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (21:04)

Recently, NBC News did speak to some voters in Michigan about how they feel about the Democratic Party, their assessment of the party heading into the midterms. I want you to take a listen to some of what they said.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (21:15)

I'd like to know what are the key characteristics or traits that best describe today's Democratic Party.

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (21:24)

Subdued.

Commercial Announcer (21:26)

All right.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (21:26)

Paul.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (21:27)

Disjointed.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (21:29)

Cindy.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (21:32)

Lacking.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (21:34)

Lucy.

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (21:35)

Spineless.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (21:36)

I think the word that best describes it them right now is bruised.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (21:43)

Those are some tough words. Congresswoman, what do you make of that assessment and what do you think Democrats need to do in order to regain the confidence of the base?

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (21:51)

Look, I'm at times get called Debbie Downer in meetings because I tell people the truth. Because I'm out there listening to those voters that were in your focus group and they're not afraid to tell me the same thing. We as Democrats have been got to show people that we can deliver for them. They are worried about how much their groceries cost, what their gasoline prices are. They want to see us fight for them and they want to see us deliver. We have to develop our plan of what we're going to deliver for them right away when we regain the house and then deliver on it. And we're also going to besides addressing affordability, we have to help fix the broken health care system and we've got to address the corruption that we are watching in government right now.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (22:33)

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much. Coming up, the latest in the war against Iran. President Trump says a new round of negotiations with Tehran could happen over the next two days in Pakistan as top US Israeli and Lebanese diplomats met here in Washington today. Plus, papacy and Public Policy Vice President JD Vance responds to the President's extraordinary food feud with the Pope Leo and the social media post that sparked backlash for depicting the President as a Christlike figure. You're watching Meet the Press now.

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Accuser / Victim (23:12)

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Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (23:43)

Let's just take a step back.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (23:45)

It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Welcome back. Turning now to the war with Iran. With the cease fire deal between Washington and Tehran set to expire a week from today, with the clock ticking, a new round of in person talks between the US And Iran could be held as early as this week. That according to two people familiar with the ongoing negotiations. President Trump also telling the New York Post that talks could happen over the next two days. Sources tell NBC News that opening the Strait of Hormuz remains a major sticking point in negotiations and that during talks over the weekend, the US asked for a 20 year suspension of Iran's uranium enrichment, but Iranian officials would only agree to a three to five year suspension. Meanwhile, here in Washington, Secretary of State Marco Rubio hosted direct talks between Israeli and Lebanese officials, their first in decades as Israel continues to strike targets in Lebanon tied to Iran's proxy Hezbollah. Secretary Rubio saying that the talks today are More than just about a ceasefire between the two sides.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (24:52)

This is a historic opportunity.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (24:54)

We understand we're working against decades of history and complexities that have led us

Melanie Zenona (Host) (24:58)

to this unique moment and the opportunity here.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (25:01)

I know some of you are shouting questions about ceasefires.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (25:03)

This is a lot more than just about that.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (25:04)

This is about bringing a permanent end to 20 or 30 years of Hezbollah's influence in this part of the world.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (25:13)

Joining me now from the White House is NBC's Kelly O'. Donnell. And NBC's chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell is here with me on set. Kelly, I do want to start with you over at the White House. What more do we know about the next talks between the US And Iran and the Trump administration's demands in this negotiation?

Kelly O'Donnell (NBC White House Correspondent) (25:31)

Well, as you outline, Mel, there is a new timeline that the President and his team are talking about, and it gives us a sense of the urgency that they feel to keep conversation happening. And they are mindful that there is a deadline coming and that is the end of the cease fire period on the 22nd. So that is a data point that can be critical in this because there is an expectation that if there isn't forward progress, what would that mean? Would the US Resume hostile activity toward Iran? Would there be some other way to intervene? Those are outstanding questions. It's also clear that the issues are deep and there is a real divide. When you consider that Iran views with such an intense fervor that it has to have some control over its own nuclear future. And that the term that the United States would even consider 20 years at a minimum, with a lot of extenuating asterisks for specific parts of that program, that that's a non starter for Iran. For the US any shorter term is a non starter. So it gives you a sense that there is some distance here between these parties. That's not a surprise, but it just gives us a sense of how challenging this could be. When the president talks about it being in the next couple of days, if it is in fact going to be in Pakistan again, that's quite a considerable distance to travel. So there should be signs coming if there are specific talks. At this point, we don't have time and place set, but kind of a window of opportunity, especially with the talks between Israel and Lebanon. It gives you a sense that diplomacy is kind of the moment right now. Is there room for conversation that could keep hostilities from ramping up? Again, that's the big question. Is there something to talk about? Can they make progress?

Melanie Zenona (Host) (27:18)

Big question indeed. Kelly, do you get the sense that the administration feels like its blockade of Iranian ports is an effective tool to ramp up pressure on Iran ahead of the next round of talks.

Kelly O'Donnell (NBC White House Correspondent) (27:28)

Well, you do get the sense of that. That seemed to be a tactic that the president came up with in Iraq. Progress here. That wasn't an intention of the early planning, at least not anything he described publicly. And by using the considerable resources that he placed into that part of the world to try to hold vessels that are coming out of Iranian ports to signal to those that they consider to be problematic that they cannot go past the US but it has limited the traffic substantially. It is far from the kind of traffic through the Strait of Hormuzzi that existed before this conflict began. So it is tamping down the hostility. It is perhaps a lever of pressure on Iran because its economic capacity is affected by this, but so are many other countries. So that is a tension point that is certainly going to build with time.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (28:18)

Kelly o' DONNELL thank you, Andrea. I want to turn to you. Kelly mentioned that there's this deep divide when it comes to the nuclear problem program. Is there even a deal to be made in this temporary amount of time before the ceasefire actually ends?

Accuser / Victim (28:30)

No, there isn't. It would have to be an extension of the ceasefire. They could keep extending the ceasefire if they see that there's any progress. It took two and a half years at the table, plus a few years just to run up to that, to get that joint plan of action, the jcpoa. I was covering that in Vienna and Geneva and other places around Europe. So and that was being done by the secretary of state, John Kerry, and Sharad Zarif, the then foreign minister for Iran, as well as other ministers, you know, Ernie Muniz, who was our energy secretary and a nuclear physicist. There were a number of people, Wendy Sherman, the deputy secretary of state. So there was a large Rachi, by the way, who is now the top negotiator as well as the parliamentary speaker. He was the number two in that delegation. It took years and years, details. And they had to concede that they were not going to get to missiles. It was just going to be the nuclear piece. And they did have a 15 year agreement and it was at very low level, 3.27%. Well, it was only after the Trump administration broke out of that agreement that a year or two later, that is, Iran began to enrich up to 60%, which is very close to weapons grade and very alarming. And it's only since June that there has been no inspection by the International Atomic Energy experts. So there's been no eyes for the eight or nine months now on the nuclear facilities that the president had said were obliterated in that 12 day war in June. But they still have that enriched uranium. They have to decide what to do with it. Iran doesn't want to give up all enrichment. There are deals the US could be offering and we understand they are to pay for the enrichment to provide enriched uranium to Iran for medical and other civilian purposes. Iran is insisting that since they have signed the non proliferation treaty that they should be able to, should be allowed to enrich. There's going to have to be some give on that. But there are two really tough the nuclear deal experts believe. I've been talking to diplomats and military experts. There is a deal to be done, not quickly. And the Strait of Hormuz is more complicated, no doubt.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (30:47)

There's also these talks in Washington day between Israeli and Lebanese officials. Secretary Rubio said he does hope that there could be a deal. I want you to take a listen to what the Israeli ambassador said today after that meeting.

Ryan Nobles (NBC Capitol Hill Correspondent) (31:00)

What gives me hope is the fact that the Lebanese government made it very clear that they will no longer be occupied by by Hezbollah. And Iran has been weakened. Hezbollah is dramatically weakened. This is an opportunity. This is the first time our two countries are sitting together in over three decades. Let's feel the moment. Let's enjoy the moment.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (31:24)

Now my question to you, Andrea, if Hezbollah isn't at the table, is it even possible to get a deal?

Accuser / Victim (31:29)

There is a deal. There's a UN resolution. And the deal will involve Israel taking some territory and creating a buffer zone. Lebanon would probably agree to that. It would be south of the Litany River. They would have to agree not to attack civilian areas. But right now Israel is saying that the ceasefire does not apply to Lebanon, Pakistan and the others. Iran say that it should apply to Lebanon. And Israel has been striking Lebanon, Beirut in the last couple of days fiercely with the most forceful attacks. And that is what international observers, the UN and others say has to stop.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (32:07)

Andrea Mitchell, thank you so much for your perspective. Up next, Acting Attorney General Todd Blanch meets the press speaking to NBC News about the weaponization of the Justice Department, the Epstein files and much more. Stay with us on MEET THE press.

Accuser / Victim (32:20)

Now.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (32:25)

VRBO makes it easy to claim your dream summer spot with early booking deals from homes with pools to poolside loungers. When you book a vrbo, you don't have to reserve any loungers. They're all yours. All you have to do is book early book with VRBO. Welcome back. The Department of Justice released its first so called weaponization report today, alleging federal prosecutors and the Biden DOJ worked closely with outside groups that tracked anti abortion protesters. Ahead of the release of that report, at least four DOJ employees were fired, according to a person familiar with the firings. It comes amid renewed concerns about executive overreach at the Department of Justice, with President Trump's former personal attorney, Todd Blanche now leading the agency. After the president fired Pam Bondi, NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett sat down with the acting attorney General who said Americans should be happy that the president is deeply involved at the Justice Department.

Laura Jarrett (NBC Senior Legal Correspondent) (33:24)

Is the president calling the shots or is the acting Attorney general calling the shots at headquarters?

Todd Blanch (Acting Attorney General) (33:29)

Well, I suppose I would ask you to define calling the shots because the president is the, we can read Article 2 together of the Constitution. It puts the power of the executive in one man, and that's the President of the United States. So he ishe is my boss and he isevery president is the Attorney Royal's boss from the time the Constitution was enacted and the time that an attorney general was selected. And so who is calling the shots? I mean, I think everybody in this country knows and has known for 250 years that the President of the United States, when it comes to the executive, calls the shots.

Laura Jarrett (NBC Senior Legal Correspondent) (34:06)

You talk about success, but some of the cases, at least in the most controversial cases, the ones that get the headlines, the one that the President appears to care very deeply about, the record has been, has been tough for both Comey and James. The indictments get dismissed. The indictment against Congressman Adam Schiff that he called for never gets off the ground. The probe into those six Democratic lawmakers. The grand jury declines to indict. A judge in D.C. tosses out a subpoena for Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. That's bad news for the department.

Accuser / Victim (34:39)

No.

Todd Blanch (Acting Attorney General) (34:40)

Well, not bad news for the department. It means that we're working hard. I mean, look, for one, some of those indictments were dismissed on procedural grounds because of the U.S. the judge found the U.S. attorney wasn't properly in place. So that's not a, that's not a finding, a factual finding of whether there was probable cause. A grand jury returned indictments in those cases. Some of the investigations you spoke about are just that they're investigations. And the fact that the media picked up on them and drove a narrative, for one, it's not necessarily true. And for two, it's, it's their investigations.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (35:12)

Joining me now is NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett. Laura, thank you so much. That was just an incredible interview, an important interview. What else did you hear from the acting attorney general and what were some of the other major headlines?

Laura Jarrett (NBC Senior Legal Correspondent) (35:26)

Hey, Mel. It was a wide ranging interview. We sat down for about 30 minutes and covered quite a bit of ground just in terms of how is he thinking about his role? Remember, this is somebody who worked quite hard on behalf of the president, then running for office when he was indicted four different times. Todd Blanche in private practice at that point, representing him here in the hush money case in New York. And now he is occupying potentially the highest position at the Justice Department. And I asked him about that and asked him to really sort of drill down at how are you thinking about this role? Right. The president's face is plastered on the Justice Department's walls right now, Mel. Right outside of it, you can see a big banner with his face. And so I said, how? Thinking about this role. And he made it very clear he sees this as entirely at will. He can be hired, fired, he's happy to be there. He essentially said, if I don't get the job, I'll still stay there and I'll still say I love you to the president. And so his loyalty is clear on this. And that really came through in the interview. It also came through just sort of how much he has been beleaguered by the Maxwell Ghislaine Maxwell piece of what he had to do when he had to go and talk to her in person. And also also the entire Jeffrey Epstein investigation, it's been occupying in a large amount of his time, Mel. He had to sort of be at the helm of all of the document production. And he said he was horrified by the fact that some of the survivors, the victim's information was actually left unredacted. He said it was a small percentage and it was a mistake, but he owned up to it and he said it was a big mistake.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (36:57)

Mel, Laura, thank you so much for that incredible reporting. After the break, Democrats face another special election test in New Jersey's 11th congressional district. Steve Kornacki is at the big board, breaking down what to watch for and what the results could mean for November's midterms. Keep it here on MEET the Press now. Welcome back. Voters in New Jersey's 11th district are about to head to the polls on Thursday for a special election in the race to replace now Governor Mikey Sherrill. Progressive Analia Mejia, who won a closely contested Democratic primary earlier this year, will face Republican Joe Hathaway as Democrats hope to continue their trend of overperforming in special elections this year. Joining me now with more from the big board is NBC chief data analyst Steve Kornacki. Steve, talk to us about this overperformance trend and how significantly would make you need to win in order to add to it.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (37:56)

Yeah, Mel, I mean, the trend is very clear at this point. We've had a half a dozen congressional special elections, House special elections since Trump came back to the White House. In all of them, Democrats have done double digits better than they did in the same districts in the 2024 presidential election. So this election in New Jersey's 11th district, which is gonna be on Thursday, a strange date for an election, I know, but it's gonna be on Thursday this week. To set the sort of backdrop for this, Mikey Sherrill, the current governor, she represented this seat. She obviously had to give it up to become governor. It's a Democratic friendly district. In 2024, Kamala Harris, the Democratic candidate for president, won this district by nine points. Now Mejia, the Democrat is pretty far to the left, endorsed by AOC Bernie Sanders. She's running against this, her Republican opponent here he is a suburban mayor in Morris county in a neutral political environment. Nominating a candidate as far to the left as Mejia might really be sort of testing the limits of a district like this for Democrats. But that's where these over performances that we're talking about come in. So keep that in mind here. A nine point win in this district for Kamala Harris in 2024. These are the other special elections that we have seen now to the House since Trump came back to the White House. And I mean, look at this here. It started this is in April of last year, right? This is in a district in Florida, a district that had voted for Trump by 37 points in 2024. The Republican won the special election but only by 15. That was a 22 point shift in the Democrats direction. Right? Same day. It's different part of Florida, 30 point Trump district won by the Republican by 14. 16 point Democratic overperformance. Here in Virginia was a district that Harris had won by 34. It's a democratic district, but it got much more Democratic in the special election. 50 points again, that's a 16 point shift here, an 18 point shift. Look at this, that's 13.5. These are all in the Democrats direction. And then just last week in Georgia Again, there's a 37 point Trump district. Republicans won but only by 12, a 25 point shift. The average shift that we've been seeing in these special elections is 18 points in the Democrats favor. So, again, the backdrop for this election here in New Jersey, you're talking about nine. That's what the Democrats wanted by in 2024, the average shift has been 18. If this form holds on Thursday, the way we've seen in every other race, it's gonna be an absolute blowout for the Democrats. Now, the question is, does that mean something for November? What Republicans will say and Democrats, to a point, will agree on, is that at least some of this, a good part of this, is a result of a turnout disparity between the two parties. The Democratic base much more motivated to get out there and vote in any and every election right now than the Republican base. So in a lower turnout special election, that can sort of exaggerate the effects there, make these things look extra good for Democrats. But I think what Republicans have to worry about is this. This was Trump's first term. This was House special elections in 2017 and 2018 leading into that 2018 midterm. We saw something similar back then, right? I mean, these were, for example, so going back to 2017, nine years ago, here was a district that Trump won by 27 points in the 2016 election. In the special election, the Republicans only won it by. You were seeing. There were a couple exceptions here, but you were seeing similar shifts back then. And of course, what did that produce in 2018? That was the blue wave midterm. Democrats gained 40 seats and they won the House.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (41:27)

Wow. Fascinating stuff, Steve. Thank you, as always. And we'll be right back with more Meet the Press. Now. Stay with us. Welcome back. As the President refuses to apologize for his rebuke of Pope Leo, Vice President J.D. vance, the highest ranking Catholic in government, has been left trying to downplay the tensions between the pontiff and the President.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (41:51)

We can respect the Pope. We certainly have a good relationship with the Vatican, but we're also going to disagree on substantive questions from time to time. I think that's a totally reasonable thing and isn't particularly newsworthy. I certainly think that in some cases, it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of, you know, what's going on in the Catholic Church, and let the President United States stick to dictating American public policy.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (42:18)

Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, some Catholic Republicans urged the President to use more caution with his rhetoric.

Steve Kornacki (NBC Chief Data Analyst) (42:25)

That's never really a good look for

Todd Blanch (Acting Attorney General) (42:27)

politicians to cross swords with popes very seldom ends well.

Accuser / Victim (42:30)

I found the president's comments to be offensive, and he needs to stop treating

Congresswoman Debbie Dingell (42:41)

The Pope as if he were a

Melanie Zenona (Host) (42:43)

political rival in America. Joining me now is our all star panel, Tia Mitchell, Washington Bureau Chief for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Adrian Elrod, former senior adviser to the Harris Waltz campaign, and Sarah Chamberlain, President and CEO of the Republican Main Street Partnership. Ladies, thank you so much for joining me today. Tia, I do want to start with you and I got to start with this Pope drama. Trump is continuing to dig in. Today he attacked the Italian prime minister. What do you make of that? Is there a strategy here or do you think this is just classic Trump?

Commercial Announcer (43:14)

Yeah, I think it's classic Trump. Going after a perceived enemy, going after someone he believes was undermining his message on the, the war. But I thought was interesting in that clip you just showed of the vice President when he said, you know, the Pope should stick to issues of morality. Well, the decision of whether to go to war, put human lives at risk, possibly cost, you know, have loss of life is a question of morality. And most presidents have expressed struggling with that very thing. So I don't think it's, you know, it's not outside of the bounds of what you would expect a modern day Pope to weigh in on. I think usually the president lets the Pope have his opinion and moves on. We just don't have that type of president right now.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (43:54)

Now, he did delete a post that he initially posted depicting himself as Jesus, perhaps an acknowledgement that that was in poor taste. But he said he thought he was a doctor in the photo. He said he didn't think it was depicting him as Christ. Sarah, do you buy that?

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (44:08)

No, nobody thinks he was a doctor. I'm sorry, I'm the Republican here and I have to. But no, he tried to be Jesus Christ, which is why it is now removed. And I understand there was a little bit of a meltdown in the White House when he did it. He's removed and they're hoping to move on from that picture.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (44:24)

Did you hear from people in the White House that there was a meltdown? What did they say?

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (44:27)

Just that they didn't know he had done it and they were just, they were not happy. A lot of the members of Congress weren't happy. A lot of the mega people were not happy. I mean, there's a lot of Catholics who support the president and we don't need him pretending he's Jesus Christ.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (44:41)

On that note, he did get a lot of Catholic supporters. Do you think that could hardly hurt his standing, erode some of his supporters with some Republicans who came out to vote for him?

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (44:49)

Absolutely. There are a lot of Republicans who are Catholics and that's a bit offensive. So we're glad he took it down and we're hoping he moves on from that picture.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (44:57)

And Adrienne, something else that was notable was Riley Gaines. She's a conservative commentator. She came out against this only for the president to then say he wasn't a fan of her. But then she said she's going to still support him. So should Democrats sort of temper their expectation here in terms of how this is going to impact the base?

Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (45:12)

I think we just have to look at the overall picture here. I mean, these are self inflicted wounds that President Trump is doing. He didn't have to tweet this picture. He didn't have to go after the Pope. And to the point that you made, I mean, I think it's something like 55 to 60% of Catholics voted for Trump. I mean, I'm not sure if that's accurate, but that's what I've read in a couple things. It's like he's trying to lose the midterms. It's like he's trying to ensure that either J.D. vance or Marco Rubio does not, whoever he appoints or endorses is not going to become president in 2028. These are all self inflicted wounds. And you know, I go back to I was on Hillary Clinton's campaign from start to finish in 2016. I was on President Biden's campaign in 2020. We warned Americans he is unhinged. He does not have the temperament to be president. Something we've been saying for a long time. And you're seeing this play out time and time again in real life. He does go after, you know, going after the pope and trying to perceive him as a domestic political enemy. I mean, this is probably the only time I'm going to agree with Susan Collins. But I thought her statement was very accurate where she said he needs to try stop treating the pope like a domestic political rival. He is the Pope. He trumps, no pun intended, sort of pun intended. He trumps Trump, especially in the eyes of pretty much every Catholic in the world.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (46:27)

And this is coming as Republicans are trying to talk about the tax bill and the tax benefits, the tax filing season. They're doing this big event on Capitol Hill tomorrow. It's just like another example of how this is overshadowing and overstepping on their own message. Tia I do want to turn to this other story on Capitol Hill. We saw back to back resignations, first from Democrat Eric Swalwell, then from Republican Tony Gonzalez. It was just a remarkable turn of events, especially for Swalwell. These allegations didn't come out initially until Friday. Are you surprised how quickly things happened?

Commercial Announcer (46:56)

Well, not given what the allegations were. I think, you know, particularly that he was accused not just of, you know, acting inappropriately, as bad as that was, but accused of sexual assault, accused of criminal. And again, he says he's innocent. And, you know, we'll see if they're, you know, that's a high bar. But I think people were shocked at what came out. I think they might have also been shocked at how many women were coming out. And then they're hearing that there's more to come. And I think a lot of Democrats were like, we gotta put a stop to this. And I think that also the fact that there was like a one on one, one Republican, one Democrat, I think all the rank and file members, the 435, were like, hey, we're ready to get rid of both of them.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (47:41)

Do you think Gonzalez would have resigned had it not been for all this Swallow stuff blowing up?

Commercial Announcer (47:45)

Maybe not. I think, again, because for Mike Johnson, there was also a numbers game involved there. But I think it made it easier when it was like, there's one of each, so it kind of comes out in a wash. Because I really do think that rank and file members of both parties were long ready to get rid of Tony Gonzalez, you know, notwithstanding the math problem for Speaker Johnson, and then quickly felt the same way about Eric Swalwell. So it was easy to kind of make them a package deal.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (48:14)

But I did not see Republicans coming out really and saying Gonzalez needs to resign until Swalwell did. So, Sarah, I want to get your take on that. Do you think that's a bad look for Republicans?

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (48:23)

It's not great. I mean, Tony Gonzalez, for full disclosure, was a Republican Main street partnership member until two years ago. There's other things about him that they removed him from Main Street. So we were not surprised to see this. He needed to resign. There's no question.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (48:39)

He was removed from Main street based

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (48:40)

on misgiving allegations, other allegations.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (48:42)

Can you say more about that?

Sarah Chamberlain (Republican Main Street Partnership President & CEO) (48:44)

They're just other allegations that the members of Congress came to us and they removed him from Main Street.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (48:49)

You know, on that topic, this is something we've been talking about on Capitol Hill. It seems like some people at least, least were aware of the rumors of Eric Swalwell on Capitol Hill. It was something that was whispered about in Democratic circles. Do you think there's more responsibility for Democratic colleagues to have come out or question Swalwell or done more to raise this as a potential issue.

Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (49:09)

I mean, I don't know. I don't want to get into the heads of different members of Congress about what should and shouldn't have happened. But the bottom line is, I mean, I've known Eric Swalwell for a long time. I was at absolutely shocked, along with a sea of many other people to see these allegations come out. It's one thing to hear a rumor here or there about something that is not nearly as intense as what we have seen come out. The bottom line is this. People should just if you're going to serve an elected, you're going to be a human being first of all. But also, if you're going to serve an elected office, keep it to yourself. Keep on the straight and narrow. Do not have relations with your staff. Do not, you know, rape or sexually assault. It's just, it is disgusting. There's no place for it in politics. There's no place for it anywhere, but certainly not in politics. And this transcends political boundaries. Whether you're a Democrat or Republican, independent, whatever party affiliation you are, we have no tolerance for this. And I do want to applaud Leader Pelosi, Leader Jeffries, a lot of the senior Democratic leadership for saying absolutely no. Eric, you have to go. You need to resign. You need to not run for governor and ideally resign from Congress. And at least he did that.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (50:19)

Do you think that Ruben Gallego, senator from Arizona, who's really close to Swalwell, this could impact his 2028 political ambitions, given that he was so close to Swalwell?

Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (50:28)

You know, it's hard to tell. He did come out pretty forcefully today in his own little press gaggle and, you know, sort of confronted some of those issues head on. But look, here's the bottom line. This should be a warning to anyone. I don't care who is thinking about running for president, who's thinking about running for elected office. If you have any skeletons like this in your closet, don't do it, because people will find out, as they should. You will be investigated and you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (50:54)

And Tia, I want to ask you really quickly, do you see all of this as a sign that Congress is now more willing to police itself, or do you think this may have been just like a special case?

Commercial Announcer (51:03)

I think it ebbs and flows with the times. You know, I don't want to give them too much credit because we went through them and there was all this, you know, energy about believing women and trusting women. And then, you know, we've seen examples where that wasn't always the case. So today, this week, yes, there is progress. We'll see if it stands.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (51:24)

Tia, thank you so much. Ladies, thank you so much. We're back tomorrow with more Meet THE PRESS now. And there's more ahead on NBC News. Now,

Todd Blanch (Acting Attorney General) (51:34)

he was a young Marine.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (51:36)

She didn't care about convention.

Julie Cirkuit (Reporter) (51:38)

They made a life together.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (51:40)

One night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Mankiewicz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from dateline.

Accuser / Victim (51:56)

Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion.

Melanie Zenona (Host) (51:59)

Now, wherever you get your podcasts.