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Meet the Press NOW — April 21
00:52:51
President Trump announces he’s extending the U.S. ceasefire with Iran. Federal Reserve Chairman nominee Kevin Warsh faces questions about the central bank’s independence during his confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill. Virginians head to the polls to vote on a referendum that would enact a new congressional map in Democrats’ favor. UNICEF Spokesperson James Elder speaks on the humanitarian crisis in Lebanon.
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- [00:01]
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Monica Alba
Welcome to MEET the Press. Now. I'm Monica Alba in Washington where the next steps in US Peace talks with Iran are unclear. With Vice President Vance's planned trip to Pakistan for in person talks now in a holding pattern and Pakistani mediators warning the cease fire is set to expire before 8pm tonight as President Trump signals he's prepared to restart the war if there is no final deal. This hour, the President is set to hold an event at the White House with college athletes where he could provide an update on the war with Iran. If he does, we'll bring you those remarks. But for now, Vice President Vance and the rest of the negotiating team remain in Washington with Vance, special envoy Steve Witkoff and the President's son in law, Jared Kushner, all attending meetings at the White House today. Iran's Foreign Ministry saying today that no final decision has been made on on whether Iran will participate in those talks, accusing the US of inconsistent behavior and unacceptable actions. Mediators in Pakistan say they're trying to convince the Iranian leadership to come to the table. The standoff comes amid uncertainty as to when exactly the ceasefire formally expires, with Pakistan saying it lapses tonight, but President Trump telling Bloomberg yesterday that it expires at some point tomorrow. In a post on social media this morning, President Trump accused Iran of violating the ceasefire numerous times. And in an interview with CNBC today, he said he doesn't want to extend the cease fire and he's prepared to resume strikes on Iran.
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Interviewer
To be clear, you're saying that you
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Monica Alba
need at least the prospects for a
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Interviewer Follow-up
signed deal today and tomorrow or else you would resume bombing Iran.
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President Trump
Well, I expect to be bombing because I think that's a better attitude to go in with. But we're ready to go. I mean, the military is raring to go. I want to make a good deal. I'm not going to be rushed. I have all the time in the world. I want to make it not a good deal. I want to make a great deal.
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Monica Alba
It comes as the Trump administration is also escalating its enforcement operations at sea, intercepting vessels it says are providing material support to Iran. The Pentagon releasing this video of US Forces boarding a sanctioned tanker, this time in the Pacific. It's the second vessel US Troops have boarded in recent days. President Trump told CNBC the vessel had, quote, a gift from China for Iran amid growing uneasiness about Beijing's support for Tehran as the war drags on. Joining me now are NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez, NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons is in Islamabad and NBC News national security reporter Gordon Lubold. Thank you all here for being here on these very fast moving developments. And Gabe, what do we know about how the vice president has been spending today as we wait to see if this trip is even still on?
- [04:05]
Gabe Gutierrez
Yeah, that's right, Monica. Look, this is a very fluid situation here at the White House. We have from that source familiar with the discussions that Jared Kushner, the president's son in law, as well as the special envoy Steve Woodkoff are here at the White House meeting with the president along with Vice President Vance, whose trip is now in a holding pattern as far as we know. As you said, though, we are expecting potentially to hear from the president within the next few minutes when he holds that event with NCAA athletes here at the White House. But it has been a very uncertain day as we've been hearing from Iranian officials, from the Pakistani mediators and from President Trump earlier this morning talking about the possibility of these negotiations. But as of now, Monica, this holding pattern, we find ourselves in waiting to hear what the final decision has been in order to find out whether the vice president is even making this trip to Islamabad.
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Monica Alba
Yeah, confusion there gave and confusion on some of these conflicting timelines on when the cease fire actually expires. Do we have any clarity on when that deal ends?
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Gabe Gutierrez
No. We've been asking White House officials really throughout the day to provide some of that clarity. The president has said that the deadline is tomorrow. Pakistani meteors, however, say it is Wednesday morning in Pakistan, but that would mean it's within a few hours here Eastern time. So it is totally unclear when this cease fire deadline would arrive. The president though, as you said in your introduction, he has been saying that he is ready to resume bombing Iran if a deal is that is not struck. Again, though, all that remains up in the air at the moment.
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Monica Alba
Monica and Gabe, the president also said today that the boat that the US had seized yesterday did have this, quote, gift from China on board. How is the administration reacting to that, especially when the president does have that high stakes meeting to China with the Chinese president in the coming weeks?
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Gabe Gutierrez
Look, White House officials have been saying for the last several days that this trip, this summit with President Xi, highly anticipated meeting is still on. But yes, the president raising some questions this morning in that interview with CNBC when he was describing the so called gift from China. Now, there are a lot of questions about whether this could be some dual use equipment, perhaps at least that's what it would be considered by Washington and what knowledge President Xi and China had in any of these, any of this equipment, whether the US Administration considers it weapons coming from China to Iran. Although President Xi, the president, President Trump has said has denied that he will send any weapons to China. But all this comes just weeks over that before that highly anticipated meeting. Unclear how this all plays out and again unclear whether we get to these peace talks which are scheduled, expected at least in Islamabad, all of this. We're in a holding pattern here at the White House.
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Monica Alba
Gabe, watching it all from the North Lawn. Thank you so much. I do now want to go to Kier, who is there? Kieran, that's the question right now. Do we think these talks are even going to take place where you are?
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Keir Simmons
We have no idea. Honestly, we thought that they would be this week. That's the indications that we were getting. And certainly the Pakistanis have been saying today that they have been in constant contact with the Iranians, persuading them, working to try to convince them to come here to Islamabad for these talks when we're in an extraordinary position where effectively the Trump administration is indicating pretty clearly that it would like to have the talks and the Iranian regime is indicating that frankly it may not. And in fact, just before we came on air, Monika, Iranian media said that for now, and that I suppose is a small opening of a door. Still, the decision by the Iranian regime is final not to attend the talks on Wednesday. Now why is that? Well, the Iranians are accusing the US of contravening the cease fire just the same as President Trump today accused Iran of contravening the cease fire. I think the taking of that Iranian cargo ship near the Strait of Hormuz in the past few days had a real impact, even if President Trump now saying that there were. That there were supplies on it from the Chinese for the Iranians, raising questions about that. And frankly, the simple fact is that there's just an enormous gulf in trust. The question now, of course, is, is either side as prepared to go back to war as they are saying they are?
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Monica Alba
Yeah. And the President had said that the bombs will start falling if this cease fire expires. But the question that we've been trying to discuss and find the answer to is that we don't know when that actually happens. What's your sense from the Pakistani side of things about when the cease fire does actually end, and why did they choose that time versus the time it seems the President has been talking about, which would be tomorrow evening?
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Keir Simmons
I don't know. I mean, look, the Pakistanis said in their statement in the past few hours that the cease fire runs out in the early hours of the morning here, four in the morning, here or thereabouts. Why they think that? I think it's to do with when President Trump announced the ceasefire two weeks ago. Of course, it's President Trump's ceasefire, so in a sense, it's for him to decide when it ends. And he is, of course, the actor in all of this who has said that he doesn't want to extend the ceasefire. It's quite clear to me that a number of governments, including the Pakistanis, have been trying to persuade President Trump to extend that ceasefire. Of course, the trouble is, is what President Trump is trying to do is gain leverage over the Iranians by demonstrating that he is prepared to go back to war, that he is prepared to inflict more punishment on them. On the other hand, the Iranians believe that they've survived all that and that they can survive again. And I guess, in a way, if it comes to that, this will be, again, a kind of race, a dismal race between whether the Iranian economy or the world economy suffers most.
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Monica Alba
And the President had said it was highly unlikely he could extend this deadline again, but maybe now he will. Keir Simmons, thank you so much for being there and bringing us that report from Islamabad. Gordon, I do want to turn to you now to talk a little bit more about this vessel that was boarded, this time in the Pacific. What more do we know about that incident?
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Kevin Warsh
Right.
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Gordon Lubold
So very little, honestly. You know, U.S. forces boarded the ship. The Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff recently, the Pentagon said this kind of search for any boats supporting Iran goes global. And this is the first example of that, I point out that the US Marines are still on the other boat that was boarded over the weekend
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Interviewer
near
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Gordon Lubold
the Strait of Hormuz. And so what they're finding obviously takes some time and kind of figuring out what they will do with these ships. It sounds like there was a gift from China on this one, but we don't know a lot much more about it. But I think that these boardings, we could see a lot more of them as time unfolds.
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Monica Alba
Let's talk more about that because we have seen these two in recent days. So does that indicate to you you do think there will be more maritime interdictions? This is something that the US Military is prepared to do, trains to do. But how many of more do you
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Gordon Lubold
think this is an easy signal send for from the Trump administration to, to Iran and to ships and ships kind of maybe seeking, you know, safe harbor, as it were, around the world if they're supporting Iran, It's a, it's, it's an easy operation in that sense. I shouldn't say it's easy, but it's just to your point, US Forces trained exactly this and I think, you know, there's no problem in them doing more of them. They have the forces, they have the wherewithal to do this. And I think, as I say, it's just an important message right now.
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Monica Alba
The President keeps saying that the military is ready to go if he does decide he wants to resume dropping bombs. But talk to us a little bit about the specific threats that he's been making in recent days against the power plants and bridges specifically. So if this ceasefire is off is a sense that that would be where he goes next, those military targets.
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Gordon Lubold
I think that there's no question, of course, this is all in the mind of President Trump and I think sometimes he even doesn't know exactly what he's going to do, the next move. But I think it's clear that if he decides, you know, these talks are over and he wants to resume strikes, that, that can happen anytime. It could happen tonight, could happen tomorrow, happen, you know, so we don't know. But certainly from the get go, US Military forces in the region have been ready for any manner of strikes and I'm sure they're ready to, to go back at it. And so those sites are those, these kind of potentially dual purpose sites. I think there's some legal debate about whether they are valid, but yeah, could go after them quickly.
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Monica Alba
Gordon Bluebold, thank you so much for your reporting. I do want to go back to Gabe Gutierrez, because I understand that President Trump has just issued a message about exactly what we were discussing. Gabe, what is the latest? What can you tell us?
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Gabe Gutierrez
Well, Monaco, just within the past few moments, President Trump posting on social media that he is extending the cease fire, but he will continue the blockade of Iranian ports. And the President writing that at the request, at the request of Pakistani officials, we've been asked to hold our attacks on the country of Iran until such a time as their leaders and representatives can come up with a unified proposal. The President also saying that the government of Iran is seriously, is seriously fractured. So, Monica, this all comes after a day of rapid fire developments where the vice President was expected to leave for Pakistan return, staying here in Washington, meeting with the President. There's been a series of meetings with Jared Kushner and with Steve Witkoff throughout the day. And now we're hearing from the President of the United States that he's doing something that he said he did not want to do even earlier today, extending the ceasefire. Again, we are, as we read through this right now. Yeah, from.
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Monica Alba
I want to go ahead. Yeah, I want to talk a little bit more about what you just said, which is that this is language he used that was identical to the last time that he extended the cease fire, which was two weeks ago. Prior to that, he had said it was highly unlikely that he would push this deadline back again. Then he did. Here we are again today, where before this, that's the exact same thing he said it was highly unlikely he would do it, but not impossible. So talk a little bit more about that. And also that issue of the blockade, because that had been a really key sticking point. Right. For the Iranian side of negotiations.
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Gabe Gutierrez
Well, certainly, look, and as you were just speaking about with Kir, you know, Iranian state media now saying that these negotiations are off. And part of the reason that they cite is this what they see as an act of piracy on the part of the United States with the US Military enforcing that blockade on Iranian ports, seizing that vessel on Sunday. But yes, you're right, Monica, I remember you were here at the White House. We, you asked the President about this several weeks ago and he said it was highly unlikely he would extend the cease fire. He is now extending the cease fire also just announcing it right now after a markets close. The markets close at 4pm and we're expecting to hear from the President within the next few minutes, potentially here at this unrelated event at the White House. But again, that breaking news just within the past few minutes, the President announcing that his cease fire deadline is extended, but that the US Will continue to enforce that blockade on Iranian ports.
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Monica Alba
And Gabe, tell us a little bit more about what we know took place at the White House today. We haven't seen the president on camera in a couple of days. He certainly did that lengthy interview this morning with cnbc. But it does seem that there was a lot of behind the scenes discussion and closed door meetings to try to figure out some of these next steps. What do we know about how those went and who was in them?
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Gabe Gutierrez
That's right. Well, look, White House officials have kept very tight, tight lips on what has happened here at the White House throughout the day. We, we had expected the vice president potentially at some point today to board that plane for Pakistan, but we learned that he was instead coming here to the White House. And then several hours later, we heard that it was those lead negotiation, those negotiators, Steve Witkoff as well as Jared Kushner, that were arriving here as well to jump in on those policy meetings with the vice president and President Trump. Again, we don't know exactly what communication they may have had. It appears they have been speaking with the Pakistanis, according to President Trump's message on social media that Pakistan has been communicating the Iranian position to the US but there you see it right there. The president once again calling it the government of Iran seriously fractured and extending this cease fire until they can come up with a unified proposal. Of course, this comes as the president had ramped up his rhetoric, his threats against the Iranian regime over the weekend, and yet late last week, he had been saying that the people he had been speaking with in Iran were much more reasonable than the previous regime. So a lot of conflicting messaging there from the president now extending that cease fire after a day of a holding pattern here at the White House.
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Monica Alba
Monica, Gabe, thank you so much for bringing us that breaking news. We are going to stay on top of the developments and we'll bring you the president's expected remarks later this hour if they happen. Coming up, the fate of the Fed and the fate of President Trump's nominee to lead the central bank, both in the spotlight as Kevin Warsh faces a crucial confirmation test. We have the takeaways from today's hearing and President Trump's latest comments on the economy. Plus, a Democratic House lawmaker from Florida just resigned from Congress, the third House resignation in just over a week. We're live on Capitol Hill. You're watching Meet THE Press. Now,
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Monica Alba
Welcome back. It has been a busy and contentious day on Capitol Hill with President Trump's pick to lead the Federal Reserve, Kevin Warsh facing difficult questions from his confirmation hearing about his independence and his views on the state of the economy. Warsh defended his record just hours after President Trump said publicly he would be disappointed if Warsh did not lower interest rates as chairman Wash today, dodging questions from Democrats about the president while insisting he would not be influenced by political pressure.
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Melanie Zanona
Name one aspect of President Trump's economic
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Monica Alba
agenda with which you disagree.
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Kevin Warsh
Well, Senator, the Federal Reserve in recent years has wandered outside of its remit, wandered into other I'm asking for something that's not something. If I'm confirmed, the Federal Reserve should stay in its lane. Just one I do have a disagreement, actually, Senator, with the president. I think even this morning he said that he thought I was out of central casting. I think central casting, I'd look older, grayer and maybe show up here with a cigar of sorts.
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Monica Alba
Quite adorable.
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Senator Tom Tillis
You maintain you'll be independent of President Trump?
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Kevin Warsh
Yes, Senator, I do. Presidents tend to be for cutting rates. I think the difference is President Trump expresses it quite publicly without surrogates or subterfuge. But presidents want lower rates. But Fed independence is up to the Fed.
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Monica Alba
A vote on Warsh's nomination is currently being blocked by Republican Senator Tom Tillis, who's demanding the Justice Department drop its investigation of Fed Chair Jerome Powell Tillis today speaking out during the hearing about his decision.
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Senator Tom Tillis
The problem that I have here is that we had some US Attorney with a dream or assistant US Attorney thinking it would be cute to bring Chair Powell under an investigation just a few months before the position was going to be open May 15. The term would have expired. We'd be having this hearing. You'd be getting confirmed. Custom also suggests that the sitting chair, even though he has two years left on his term, would have exited it. But instead, we have somebody who thinks a building project that went over by about $700 million with a lot of what seemed to be justifications for it are holding up this whole process.
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Monica Alba
President Trump, however, doubling down on his support of the DOJ's investigation, while also baselessly suggesting Powell may have received kickbacks from the construction.
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President Trump
Somehow we have to find out how this can happen. It's not the first time. How does this happen? Has did the contractor make $3.5 billion? I can't imagine that too late is taking money on construction? I can't, but it's possible. But we have to find out why is a job that should have cost $25 million costing billions and billions of dollars.
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Monica Alba
NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Melanie Zanona joins me now, along with NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung. Thank you both for being here. Mel, Senator Tillis didn't back down from his blockade of Warsh's nomination. What did he tell reporters after speaking out at the hearing today?
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Melanie Zanona Reporter
Yeah, Senator, tell us. Really not budging here. And he is retiring, so he's kind of in a YOLO mode right now. But what's interesting, Monica, in this situation is that he actually doesn't have any issues with Kevin Marsh. In fact, he's called him a fine, qualified nominee. He didn't spend any of the time at the hearing today trying to seek commitments from him or grilling him. Instead, he has focused his time and his ire on the fact that there is this, what he views bogus investigation into the current Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell. Take a listen to what he told us after the hearing.
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Senator Tom Tillis
At the end of the day, there's only one thing that solves this problem and it's getting rid of the bogus investigation that started without the president's knowledge and has created this situation. Then we can talk about the efficacy of the project budgets. I'd like to do. I would love to do it. And if I found impropriety, I would want my name on the, on the investigation referral to doj. That's how this place works.
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Melanie Zanona Reporter
And given the makeup on this committee, Wash, his nomination cannot get through without the support of Tillis. So unless something big changes here, Kevin Wash, his nomination going to be stuck in limbo for quite some time.
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Monica Alba
Monica and Mel, aside from those concerns over Kevin Wash, his independence, which was a focus today, what were some of Democrats other lines of attack against Trump's pick to lead the Fed?
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Melanie Zanona Reporter
Well, there was also some focus on Kevin Warshaw's personal wealth. That is something that Elizabeth Warren really pressed him on because if confirmed, he would be the wealthiest Fed Reserve chairman to ever hold that position. And there are still a lot of questions about his holdings and exactly what's in his assets. But repeatedly he declined to answer questions about exactly what's in those holdings. He has said he's under a confidentially, a confidentiality agreement that bars him from disclosing some of that. However, as Elizabeth Warren noted, if he's confirmed, he will have to divest those holdings in order to be in compliance with the law, something that Elizabeth Warren wanted noted for the record.
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Monica Alba
Mel, thank you so much for your reporting from the Hill. I want to turn to Brian now and just get your thoughts on his testimony today. And did Kevin Wash give you any indication of how he'd operate as Fed chair if he is confirmed?
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Brian Chung
Yeah, Monica, I think that the elephant in the room during this hearing was the independence by which Kevin Warsh would operate the Federal Reserve if he is appointed to this role. I think there are a lot of questions, understandably because of the noise around what the president has been saying with regards to the current Fed chair, who is Jerome Powell. He has been very vocal during his last administration, in the beginning of this administration, in advocating for lower interest rates, dramatically lower interest rates than there are right now. And there was commentary over the last few months over whether or not the pick who ended up being Kevin Warsh would be someone that would have some sort of backdoor agreement with the president to make lower interest rates as the president has wished. In fact, in a recent interview with our own Tom Yamas, essentially the line of questioning with the president was would Kevin Warsh have gotten the job if he did not assure you that there were going to be lower interest rates? The president suggested in that interview that, yeah, he would not have gotten the job if he didn't feel like interest rates should be lower from where they are now. I should point out in the testimony war said repeatedly that the president never asked him to, quote, predetermined, commit, fix, decide on any interest rate decision in any of our discussions, nor would I ever agree to do so. Would he follow through on that? That is an open question, Monica.
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Monica Alba
Brian and Democrats did focus during the hearing on the Fed's mandate to address inflation, but what is the effort to ensure maximum employment? What did Wash have to say about that specifically?
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Brian Chung
Yeah, and just to zoom out here, again, the Federal Reserve is really mindful of two different aspects of the economy. It is stable prices, which is monitoring for inflation, which is certainly a worry right now with tariffs and the war with Iran, but then also maximum employment, trying to make sure that as many people in the economy can be employed given where interest rates are because that is the Fed's primary lever for steering this economy. Now the Kevin Warsh did seem to suggest that he wasn't happy with the way that the Federal Reserve currently assesses inflation, suggesting that there are other types of measures that they could alternatively look at that he thinks would be better. But I do think, interestingly it was really about consensus. You have to remember the Fed chair is just one of a number of voices inside the Fed that get to decide on interest rates. Here's what he said about what he said should be a family feud, if you will, approach to deciding on interest rates. Take a listen.
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Kevin Warsh
My broad view is that interest rates need to be forward looking, need to be based on better data and we should have a big robust deliberation inside the fomc. I tend to favor messier meetings than some where people don't show up with rehearsed scripts. But we can have a good family fight. If the central bank has that good family fight, I think that they're going to make better decisions.
- [27:48]
Brian Chung
It is a reminder that usually the Fed likes to have consensus around those meetings. The Fed chair is usually the one trying to corral that unanimous vote. But Kevin was saying if he is appointed to this role that he would embrace that debate and maybe a few dissent votes every now and then. So certainly some interesting commentary coming out of the prospective Fed chair who again needs to navigate that till a situation in order to get confirmed.
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Monica Alba
A good old family fight. Okay, Brian Chung, thank you so much for that. Mel, Before I let you go, there is more news on Capitol Hill this time on the House side of things. And another House member, sheila. Sure, Phyllis McCormick who resigned. Was that a surprise to you? And what does that mean for Speaker Johnson's majority margin right now?
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Melanie Zanona Reporter
Well, Monica, it wasn't exactly surprising, even though it is still shocking. I talked to a number of senior Congressional Black Caucus members who said they had privately encouraged her to resign and
- [28:37]
Monica Alba
said they were really trying to walk
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Melanie Zanona Reporter
her through the dynamics she was facing. And those dynamics were that the House Ethics Committee already found her guilty of 25 ethics violations Related to allegations that she stole FEMA money and other federal funds and funneled part of that money into her congressional campaign, allegations that she denies. And in fact, the House Ethics Committee was going to meet this afternoon to determine whether or not they were going to recommend expulsion or some other form of disciplinary action. So she announced that resignation just moments before that hearing. But it is still just remarkable what we have seen on Capitol Hill over the last just eight days alone. This is now the third member to resign after Eric Swallow and Tony Gonzalez both resigned over sexual misconduct. And so it has been really whiplash for the margins here on Capitol Hill. There's also been some members who have been sworn in. But where it stands right now, Republicans can only afford to lose two Republicans on any party line vote. So as always, the the historically small margins very tight right now.
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Monica Alba
Mel's and own a never dull where you are. Thank you so much for bringing us all of that. We appreciate it. And we are still waiting on those remarks from the president at the White House will be his first public event since announcing a ceasefire extension with Iran just moments ago. We will bring you his remarks if he does start speaking about the war. But up next, battle lines on the ballot. It's Election Day in Virginia and we're on the ground talking to voters as they decide the fate of a redistricting plan that could win Democrats four more seats in Congress. Stay with us. This is MEET THE press. Now.
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Breaking news just coming in moments ago.
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- [31:08]
Monica Alba
Let's just take a step back.
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- [31:19]
Monica Alba
Welcome back. If it's Tuesday, Virginia is voting about the future of voting. Virginia is the latest battleground in a nationwide redistricting battle that President Trump kicked off when he pressured Texas to redraw its congressional maps last year. But today, it's Democrats pushing for a referendum that would enact a new congressional map and potentially gain them four more seats. But as they head to the polls, Virginians would be forgiven for any confusion about which vote would lead to which outcome. Take a listen to how both sides of the debate have leveraged President Obama's words on redistricting.
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- [32:04]
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- [32:07]
Monica Alba
to end partisan gerrymandering.
- [32:09]
Anneliese Keller
But Richmond politicians want to shred our
- [32:11]
Monica Alba
bipartisan process and draw maps for themselves.
- [32:14]
Start Today App Advertiser
Again, Virginia, we are counting on you. Republicans want to steal enough seats in Congress to rig the next election and wield unchecked power for two more years. But you can stop them by voting yes by April 21st.
- [32:30]
Monica Alba
All of it reflects a larger messaging challenge for Democrats who've sought to reframe this gerrymandering as a temporary but necessary counterweight to President Trump.
- [32:40]
Interviewer
In Virginia, no politician is entitled to power. We can stop Trump by voting yes for Fair elections, a temporary fix to level the playing field and put power back in the hands of the people where it belongs. Vote yes to stop the MAGA power grab.
- [32:57]
Monica Alba
The yes on Fair Elections amendment is critical. It's a temporary emergency fix that restores fairness in our elections, preserves independent redistricting,
- [33:07]
NBC News App Advertiser
and returns power to the people.
- [33:10]
Monica Alba
Joining me now is Julie Carey, the Northern Virginia bureau chief at our NBC Washington station wrc. And NBC chief data analyst Steve Kornacki is breaking things down at the big board as he does. Julie, I will start with you. You're on the ground there talking to voters. What are they telling you about this referendum?
- [33:31]
Melanie Zanona
Well, what I will say is voters are very clear about this decision they're making today. And I think what is really remarkable is how engaged voters are with this ballot question. I mean, it is not typical for voters really anywhere to be coming to the polls in the spring, in April, casting ballots in a statewide election. But take a look at those early voting numbers. Nearly 1.4 million Virginians casting early ballots. That's nearly as much as in the statewide election in November, when Virginia selected a new Governor, but when voters are telling me today the people who are voting yes, they tell me almost universally they don't like casting this guest ballot. They don't like the idea of gerrymandering, especially this map that cuts Virginia up into a 101 map, 10 Democrats to one Republican. But they also say they feel like it's something they have to do. You mentioned it. They feel like they have to counter Donald Trump and what is he has asked of other red states to do ask adding GOP votes there. And they're very well aware that Virginia is in the national spotlight and what happens here today could determine who wins control of the House in November. And the yes voters, they want that to be Democrats. They say they want to restore a sense of balance in this country. Now, those voting no, most of them tell me they are Republicans. What they're mostly troubled by is the fact that it dilutes Republicans so much in the Commonwealth. Only one so seat in the entire commonwealth set out and drawn to favor Republicans. So they're troubled by that. You know, they also point out though, that Virginia right now has what's viewed as a very bipartisan fair map that was approved by voters some years ago. So they don't like the idea of seeing that blown up. Take a listen now to what some of the voters had to tell me today about their decision. Share with me yes or no and why.
- [35:15]
Melanie Zanona Reporter
Yes and why?
- [35:18]
Monica Alba
Because we need to, as posters say,
- [35:20]
Melanie Zanona Reporter
level the playing field.
- [35:21]
Interviewer
I would normally probably vote no, that they shouldn't be changing but now. But the only thing that bothered me was the fact that the current president is trying to change it in other states.
- [35:31]
Melanie Zanona
What's your hope about what impact this
- [35:33]
Anneliese Keller
will have in the fall?
- [35:34]
Interviewer Follow-up
That we pick up more seats?
- [35:35]
Monica Alba
Yeah, absolutely.
- [35:36]
Interviewer Follow-up
That's it.
- [35:37]
Melanie Zanona
Plain and simple.
- [35:37]
Interviewer Follow-up
Yeah, plain and simple.
- [35:38]
Voter
I don't believe in changing these maps. I don't believe it's the way to go. And I know this is just going to continue from one state to another state in different directions, but I think we should stop it. The only way to stop is just by voting no.
- [35:51]
Interviewer
I don't care what Texas or California or all them do. This was an independent, it's unbiased, it's 6 to 5 favoring Democrats. But that seems to be fair to me.
- [36:04]
Melanie Zanona
Came back for a minute. So I think you were talking at going to as you can see today, this is a very blue area where a steady stream here in Fairfax County. But again, voters very interested, very engaged in casting their ballots today.
- [36:23]
Monica Alba
Julie, thank you so much for Being there and bringing us those voter voices. Steve, I do want to turn to you. What are you watching for tonight as the vote comes in?
- [36:33]
Interviewer Follow-up
Yeah, I mean, a couple things, I think. First of all, obviously, keep in mind, Virginia is to start with now it's a blue state. Now, there are blue earth states than Virginia, but this is still a state that Kamala Harris won by almost 6 points in 2024, was double digits for Joe Biden in 2020. And in the governor's race just last November, Abigail Spamberger, the Democrat, won this by almost 16 points. So generally Democrats are winning. In Virginia, there was a Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin, who won in 2021 by two points there. So Republicans can win, but when they win, it tends to be very close. And generally there's an advantage to Democrats. So. So with that in mind, where we're looking tonight, one of the places is it looked southwest Virginia. There's not a ton of votes that come out of here, but this is a very Republican part of the state. One thing we saw in that governor's race last fall when Republicans got blown out was turnout was lower here in a core rural Republican area relative to other parts of the state, especially Democratic suburbs closer to Washington, D.C. and Virginia. So is turnout up here? Is it more level? That's something that the Republican side, that the no side in this needs to see happen here. That's one of the ingredients. Then what about swing areas? There are 16 counties or cities, independent cities in Virginia that did vote for Spanberger last year and that voted for Youngkin, the Republican who won the governorship in 2021. The biggest of them would be Virginia beach right here. Virginia beach with about 450,000 people here. This is one tonight that the no side needs to win, probably needs to win, you know, by five points or more if it's going to have a shot statewide. Right next door, another swing area. Again, this was Spanberger and Youngin. Chesapeake, the city of Chesapeake, a quarter of a million people there. And there's also this just south of Richmond, big gigantic suburbia here, Chesterfield County. Again, Spamberger won this going away last year. Youngkin was able to eke out a win here in 2021. So I think this is a really a kind of a bellwether county, Chesterfield county, when that comes in. As it goes, you might be seeing how the state goes. One other to keep in mind, just because I think we will get it earlier right outside of Washington, D.C. loudoun County. And again, this is a very big county now. This is a blue county. I would expect the yes side is going to carry Loudoun County. I only flag it because we tend to get results earlier here, full results earlier here than elsewhere. So I think one thing to keep in mind, if you're looking at Loudon, the set the line at 12. If the yes side is winning by more than 12, I think it's a very good sign for them to carry this. If it's less than 12, that's an encouraging sign for the, for the no side of this thing. And we might get a readout in loud and earlier in terms of more sort of broadly the national stakes of this year. Again, a lot of different numbers here. You're looking at the House playing field comparing 2026 to 2018. Remember, 2018 was Trump's first midterm. And in 2018, the Democrats managed to win 40 seats, House seats in that midterm. Now, the thing to keep in mind is almost all of those democratic gains in 2018 came in two types of districts. You see them right here. In 2018, Democrats made the lion's share of their gains in districts that were held by Republicans but that Trump had lost in the presidential election. There were 25 districts like that in 2018 and almost all of them flipped in 2018. Right now on this map, there are only eight districts like that. But if this Democratic plan goes forward In Virginia, that 8 will become 12. There are four more districts that will be drawn here that would be Republican held, but that Trump would have lost under these new lines. This next category was with the other place where Democrats made their huge gains in 2018. They were Republican seats, but Trump won them by fewer than seven and a half points. Again, there were 23 of those in 2018. There are 15 now. If this passes tonight, that comes down to 13 because a few move over this way. But those are the stakes here. Democrats get much more low hanging fruit if they can win in Virginia.
- [40:25]
Monica Alba
Tonight, Steve Kornacki on a fascinating dynamic right in our backyard. We'll be watching that very closely. Steve, thank you. And we will see you tonight for another edition of the Kornacki Cam, tracking the results in Virginia as they come in. It all kicks off at 6:45 Eastern on nbcnews.com let's turn now to another shakeup in President Trump's cabinet with Lori Chavez D. Rimmer resigning as labor secretary. Chavez Darimer announcing her decision late yesterday in the midst of an inspector general probe into possible misconduct. She's now the third cabinet secretary to leave the administration less than Seven weeks after President Trump ousted both his Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, and his attorney General, Pam Bondi. Joining me now is our panel. Idris Kaloon, staff writer at the Atlantic, Arshi Siddiqui, Democratic strategist and former senior aide to former Speaker Pelosi and Republican strategist Anneliese Keller. Thank you all for being here on a breaking news day. I do want to start, Idris, with you on that news about the labor secretary being out. When we do talk about these other women that the president has now taken out of their respective posts, does three make a pattern? What does it tell you about this Cabinet shakeup?
- [41:42]
Idris Kaloon
It's interesting. I mean, there was, you know, Mike Waltz at the very start of this administration, if you remember him, he was the national security adviser. He got demoted or promoted, depending on who's telling the story, to ambassador of the UN Over Signalgate. So I think the pattern here is, you know, I think all of these Cabinet secretaries lost their jobs for different reasons. In the labor secretary's case, you know, if you read the New York Times, there's been a lot of kind of scandal, not a lot of policy coming out of there. On the DHS side, there was. That's something that was much more important to the president. But again, there was a lot of personal scandal. And in particular, the killing of the two American citizens, I think was what was what caused the president to lose confidence there. And then with Bondi, it's that she wasn't Trumpy enough. Right. She wasn't willing to go far enough for the president. So maybe it's a pattern. But also, I think you could also look at it and say that there are three very disparate causes here.
- [42:33]
Monica Alba
Yeah, there had been so little turnover in the first 12 or 13 months compared to what we've just seen in recent weeks. But they are all very different cases. Annelise, do you think that the next shoe to drop here could be the FBI Director, Kash Patel, in the wake of that reporting from the Atlantic, which detailed his conduct as, quote, erratic, a management failure, and a national security vulnerability? According to the interviews that they included in, in that report that included everybody from former FBI officials to Intel Agency staff, members of Congress and former advisers, could he be on the chopping block?
- [43:06]
Anneliese Keller
He could be. I mean, obviously he's out vehemently defending himself, saying he's going to sue, that this is not accurate. You know, the rumor mill, I think, will continue to churn, and I think he will go, you know, have some increased scrutiny. There was initial scrutiny for him around some of his. The way that he was operating with travel and things like that. So I wonder if maybe that will sort of come back up and there might be some additional investigations around him on that. But I do think it's interesting that there really have not been any shifts in the Cabinet up until this point. Sometimes people look at, you know, we're coming up on midterms, we want to go ahead and, you know, move on from some of these people that might be creating some negative press stories. So I do think that this is kind of the time you don't want to get too close to the midterms with some of the dysfunction. So there is kind of a win window that I think we should watch for.
- [43:57]
Monica Alba
Yeah, usually there's sort of a memo to the Cabinet of like, if you're going to leave, this is your moment, make your decision, and then everybody hunker down. But we had reported NBC News that the president was frustrated specifically with Cash Patel over some of the antics on display when he was at the Winter Olympics back in February. So could this also kind of present a solution to the president for a problem that he's already been debating?
- [44:22]
Anneliese Keller
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. I don't know how serious some of his frustrations with Cash have been, but certainly if there is, you know, if he wants to put his foot on the gas and get rid of someone and kind of tighten the screws, he's able to do that. And I don't know what would really stop him at this point. I think it's just a matter of, you know, his sort of priorities right now. Everything's in the foreign policy space in Iran, and I think that's kind of where his focus is right now.
- [44:49]
Monica Alba
And on that point, Arshi, what we saw with DHS in particular and the replacement there, at least with former Senator Mullen, now the Secretary of Homeland Security, it almost seems like there's an effort to soften the image of dhs. You've seen a couple of shifts on immigration enforcement and beyond that. So is that maybe the route that the White House could consider here for the doj, too? Do you think that's something that's working for the doj?
- [45:13]
Arshi Siddiqui
I think for doj, if anything, we'll see that the President is going to go very aggressively. We've already seen that foreshadowed in terms of these topics.
- [45:21]
Melanie Zanona
Talk about
- [45:23]
Arshi Siddiqui
voter intimidation, and that's where all of this started. So I would say if you look at Bondi, she actually, we don't see in this Cabinet the difference between Trump 1.0 and 2.0 is the policy alignment is pretty significant. And I think she couldn't have gotten more aggressive. It just, I think her bed style, manner maybe was not playing well. Whereas I think now we see somebody coming into the role who is a little bit on, at least on dhs, that's a little bit more kind of politically. He's able to navigate politically in a way that's a little bit softer around the edges, but just as aggressive on the policy side. And he also has some Democratic relationships. So he does have that open line of communication.
- [46:03]
Monica Alba
Yeah. And it was really interesting just in the last few days where we did see someone like Tucker Carlson. Idris Wright, a longtime Trump ally, now expressing what you could call buyer's remorse over his role, he said, in getting the president elected. Here's what he said on his podcast this week, speaking with his brother who once served as Trump's speechwriter. Let's listen to that.
- [46:25]
Tucker Carlson
You and me and millions of people like us are the reason this is happening right now.
- [46:29]
Gordon Lubold
Yes.
- [46:31]
Tucker Carlson
So I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. You know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be. And I want to say I'm sorry for misleading people. It was not intentional. That's all I'll say.
- [46:48]
Monica Alba
Tormented by it. Wow, Idris. I mean, how significant of a break is this for the president?
- [46:54]
Idris Kaloon
I think it's big. You know, Tucker Carlson has been a devoted fan of his devoted and very important, you know, popularizer. Popularizer of his message. The fact that we've seen not just him, but Marjorie Taylor Greene break with the president so prominently, I think is a sign of the MAGA coalition fraying as people look towards the midterm elections, at which point the Republican contest to be the next president will happen. And certainly based on the president's actions, it doesn't seem like he's making a popularity play to run for a third term or anything like that. So I see that. But, you know, in that podcast, he made a few points. The break is over Israel, Iran, the war that the president promised that he wouldn't get America into, that he's now into. But it's also about vaccines. I mean, that's something that they spent like 20 minutes talking about as well.
- [47:41]
Monica Alba
Yeah. And another prominent podcaster, analyst Joe Rogan, was at the White House, seemingly made up of with the president this weekend. What do you make of his appearance with him? Because there had been some backlash and he had put some distance there specifically with the war in Iran.
- [47:54]
Anneliese Keller
Yeah, I mean, I think he's skeptical of what's going on in Iran, but certainly going to going to take the win and be behind the president for some of his own priorities. But I guess just from a Republican perspective, I see the Tucker Carlson being a little bit differently. You know, Tucker Carlson has totally cratered with Republicans. I think looking at some polls, he's got about 7% of approval with GOP and GOP independent leaning folks, whereas President Trump still like 83, 81% approval with among Republicans. So depending on the polls that you look at, I think if people are going to have to pick between those
- [48:25]
Monica Alba
two like they're going to, they're going
- [48:26]
Anneliese Keller
to stick with President Trump.
- [48:27]
Monica Alba
Archie, in the final moments that we have, is that welcome for Democrats seeing some of this fraying in the MAGA base?
- [48:33]
Arshi Siddiqui
I think the fraying is significant because it reinforces this, this narrative that we are seeing playing out across the board that whether that the president has veered away from his campaign promises, whether forever wars, whether the Epstein files, whether a economic policies and it's making life more difficult for Americans rather than better. So I think that's why that's very significant.
- [48:54]
Monica Alba
Have to leave it there. Arshi and Elise Idris, thank you so much for your time today. And still to come, left in the lurch, we will get the view from a humanitarian aid worker who's on the ground in Beirut as more than 1 million displaced civilians, including hundreds of thousands of children in Lebanon, face the devastating impact of war. Keep it here. I'll meet the press now. Welcome back. The Israeli military is accusing Hezbollah of firing rockets at its troops in southern Lebanon, with the IDF then firing its own strikes in return despite a 10 day ceasefire. According to officials, the US is expected to host a second round of talks between Israel and Lebanon this Thursday in hopes of extending the current ceasefire. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people who were forced from their homes by Israel's bombing campaign are now returning to southern Lebanon amid the fragile pause with many finding their homes reduced to Rubble. According to UNICEF, more than 1 million people have been displaced by the conflict, including nearly 400,000 children. Joining me now is UNICEF representative James Elder, who is in Beirut. James, thank you so much for being here to talk about this really important issue. And I want to just start with the situation on the ground right now in Lebanon. What are the main humanitarian needs right now for families and how is UNICEF helping them?
- [50:26]
James Elder
It's bleak. I have to say, Monica, obviously it's better because the level of bombardments have, you know, almost, almost stopped. That's a very big plus. But, you know, you've got 400,000 children have been displaced. 400,000. We talk of displacement.
- [50:41]
Vanguard Advertiser
I don't think.
- [50:41]
James Elder
I think people quite understand. I think people feel it quite a neutral term. It's not. It's repetitive, it's violent. So children lose their home and then all the anxiety of their parents, who have, you know, like in most places, spent decades trying to build that home. Many homes, as you and I speak, are still being demolished in the south. Israel continues to do that. So hundreds of thousands of children in schools, but sleeping in schools. So UNICEF is doing everything, goodness me, from biscuits to blankets, you know, trucking in water to places. A lot of stuff, Monica, with children who've been wounded, psychological support, but also medical support, mobile health teams. So it's a huge amount of work in very difficult circumstances. I mean, I've got colleagues who are. Who've also lost family members here. So everyone is rallying around. But Lebanese have suffered hugely time and again, and particularly for children, and they really hadn't recovered psychologically, many of them physically, from the attacks of September 2024.
- [51:40]
Monica Alba
An incredibly difficult situation, no doubt. And on top of that, compounding that, is the fact that government funding cuts to global aid like UNICEF means that you are facing a budget shortfall this year. So how is that impacting your work in Lebanon right now?
- [51:57]
James Elder
Yeah, it's a great question. It's kind of two sides of the same moral retreat. We're seeing international humanitarian law abandoned and remembering. That's the bare minimum the world agreed to in war. It's not the ceiling, it's the floor. And at the same time, whilst that's occurring, hurting children more than ever, because we see, you know, a range of indiscriminate attacks and impunity. Attacks on health workers, attacks on all the services children rely upon. We're seeing those funding cuts. You talk of unprecedented funding cuts, Monica. You know, if we think of the Global Financial Crisis, 2008, 9, the banks were bailed out, no one is bailing out the children. And people just don't understand that. So where I am now in Lebanon, or whether I'm in Haiti or I'm in DRC or Sudan, and you have these incredible colleagues and incredible health workers and partners going to enormous lengths and then suddenly they don't have the nutrition supplies, they suddenly don't have the vaccines and they just don't understand why at this moment of need, they've had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't think anyone truly understands at this moment, given that, you know, we're talking about a few dollars per person here in terms of actual costs from those countries that that can fund. So in Lebanon we're less than one quarter funded. So I talk about that work we're doing of water, of sanitation, of education, of psychological support, of shelter and 3/4 unfunded. That has day to day impacts in terms of the services, the support we can get to children and mothers.
- [53:25]
Monica Alba
And as you alluded to, so many people are returning to Lebanon south to find their homes just completely destroyed. So kind of long term impacts, do you see this creating in Lebanon for children?
- [53:38]
James Elder
Yeah, it's particularly grave. I mean, the country's already still reeling from those attacks of the 8th, on 8th of April, almost two weeks ago, when there were around 150 airstrikes in 10 minutes, when dozens of children were killed in almost an instant. And then you have families hoping to go home, hoping their home will be home, being told that they can't. There is an entire area now that Israel has cordoned off and demolitions continue. And then you have the trauma people are going through. I mean, Monica, just today, earlier today I was with a colleague getting that sense that no one is safe, no one feels safe anywhere. It's a UNICEF colleague and he was walking across the rubble of what was his sister's home. He was returning to it for the first time since an airstrike hit there. It's his younger sister, she was a preschool teacher. She was killed in the strike, her son was killed in the strike, a little three year old boy. He's walking around and he's sort of, he's holding up school books and her textbooks, her teaching material as a preschool teacher. And he's just saying this was the target, this was the target. Now this is not no longer rare. This has been routine Lebanon in Gaza and so on. And so it's going to take a long, long time if the ceasef holds, Monica, if the ceasefire holds for families, for children, for grandparents to recover from this.
- [54:54]
Monica Alba
And in our last moments here, James, what are you hearing from people there about their hopes for the cease fire being extended possibly?
- [55:02]
James Elder
It's a great question, Monica. Look, they have to hope. They know that Lebanese are very, very savvy to the political realities. The last thing they want is war and so they will hope for this ceasefire. As someone said to me today, maybe hope is our blind spot.
- [55:18]
President Trump
Spot.
- [55:18]
James Elder
It's a nice blind spot to have. But the last ceasefire, there were thousands of breaches officially recorded from Israel during that. So they are holding on to hope. But they know that they need something more than that if it really if their children and their families really are to be safe in the coming days and weeks.
- [55:40]
Monica Alba
James Elder of unicef, thank you so much for your time and your efforts on all this. We appreciate it. We're back tomorrow with more MEET THE PRESS now. And there is much more ahead on NBC News. Now,
- [56:03]
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