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Meet the Press
Meet the Press NOW — April 27
00:54:50
White House Correspondents' Dinner shooter Cole Tomas Allen is charged with attempting to assassinate President Trump as new details emerge about the incident and his motivations. Expert in extremism and polarization Cynthia Miller-Idriss talks about the rise in political violence. President Trump meets with top national security officials to discuss the future of the war with Iran after the latest negotiations were abruptly canceled.
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Dish Network Announcer
For 45 years, Dish has been connecting America with the best in family, tv, entertainment and advanced technology at an unbeatable value. And that commitment continues with our new
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Melanie Zanona
45th anniversary special offer.
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Dish Network Announcer
Get the lowest price in satellite TV, starting as low as $89.99 a month. In a world of rising costs and hidden fees, Dish stays transparent, reliable and honest, just like our founders intended. Learn more by calling 888-3-add-D dish or visit dish.com terms and conditions apply. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from dateline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcast podcasts.
- [01:11]
Melanie Zanona
Welcome to Meet the press. Now I'm Melanie Zenona in Washington with breaking news. We have new details and new fallout from Saturday night's attempted assassination of President Trump at the White House correspondence center after 31 year old Cole Tomas Allen, armed with a shotgun, handgun and knives, breached security in an attempt to target the President and other top government officials. The sound of multiple gunshots echoed through the dinner, forcing the President, the Vice President and other high ranking government officials to take cover before being evacuated by their security details. The suspect was in federal court for the first time this afternoon and moments ago we heard from Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche alongside FBI Director Cash Patel and U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro.
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Tom Winter
This man was a floor above the ballroom with hundreds of federal agents between him and the President of the United States. The Department of Justice approaches incidents like this with urgency and clarity of purpose. Violence has no place in civic life.
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Carol Lam
There will be additional charges as this investigation continues to unfold, but make no mistake, this was an attempted assassination of the President of the United States with the defendant making clear what his intent was. And that intent was was to bring down as many of the high ranking cabinet officials as he could.
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Melanie Zanona
In addition to being charged with attempted assassination of the President, Cole Tomas Allen also faces two counts of firearm related offenses, including the discharge of a firearm. Authorities say he exchanged fire with law enforcement before being wrestled to the ground and detained. One Secret Service agent was shot, but was protected by a bulletproof vest and is expected to be okay. Authorities also say that minutes before the attack, the suspect sent his family notes apologizing for what he was going to do, criticizing the President without mentioning his name and also writing about the lax security at the hotel. The President describing his Experience of the harrowing incident on CBS's 60 Minutes last night, along with his interactions with members of his own security detail trying to protect him.
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Donald Trump
I wanted to see what was happening, and I wasn't making it that easy for him. I wanted to see what was going on. And by that time, we started to realize maybe it was a bad problem. Different kind of a problem, Bad one, and different than what would be normal noise from a ballroom, which you hear all the time. And I was surrounded by great people, and I probably made them act a little bit more slow. I said, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me see. Wait a minute. So, you know, I'm telling.
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Melanie Zanona
Just at that moment where it looks like you go sort of down with the service, you were telling them to wait.
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Donald Trump
No, what happened is then I started walking with them. I turned, I started walking, and they said, please go down. Please go down on the floor. So I went down and first lady went down also. But we were asked to go down by the agents as I was walking.
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Evie Pompous
In other words, they wanted you almost to crawl.
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Donald Trump
I was standing up, pretty much. I was standing up and then turned around the opposite direction and started pretty much walking out. Pretty tall, a little bent over because, you know, I'm not looking to be standing too tall. And. But I was walking out. It was pretty about halfway there. And they said, please go down to the floor. Please go down to the floor. So I dropped to the floor. So did the first lady.
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Melanie Zanona
The incident marks the latest in a rash of politically motivated violence which has included deadly attacks on members of both parties and multiple attempts on the president's life. NBC's Garrett Hake pressing the President about the recent spate of violence at the White House Saturday night after the incident.
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Gary Grumbach
There's been so much political violence, not just aimed at yourself, but at other members of members of Congress, State House speakers, you name it. Is that just the cost of doing business, do politics in America anymore?
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Donald Trump
Yeah.
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Matt Bradley
Well, what else, Richard?
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Donald Trump
We're not the only country. You look at this great violence with all countries. I was talking to somebody from another country today, and they have numerous assassinations of political figures all over the world. You look at South America and South America, it's like some of the numbers are just horrific. It's dangerous. It's dangerous stuff, whether it's here or someplace else. No country is immune. No country.
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Melanie Zanona
We've got all angles of this story covered with NBC News national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter. NBC News legal affairs reporter Gary Grumbach, NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, former U.S. attorney and current NBC News legal analyst, Carol Lam and Evie Pompous, former special Secret Service agent and now an NBC News law enforcement analyst. Thank you all so much for joining us. Tom, I do want to start with you. Just take us through these charges and what more we learned from the suspect's court appearance today.
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Tom Winter
Right. So it's just three counts so far. And it's important to note that this has been charged non complaint, meaning an FBI agent swears out an affidavit and then says the evidence that they've uncovered so far that would lead them to be able to charge the three counts you're looking at on screen. Count one, that attempt to assassinate the president, United States. That carries a sentence up to life in prison. Count three, discharge of a firearm during a crime of violence. That's a mandatory minimum if there's a conviction of 10 years in prison. Included in this is a detailed timeline of the travels of Allen. The information as far as how he was able to get from California, where he lives, to Washington, D.C. by train, the fact that he was able to get a hotel room here at the Hilton Hotel, where you see him now on the ground having been stripped of his clothing after being taken into custody. That purchase happens or that reservation, I should say happens on April 6th, the 21st. He travels L. A to Chicago. He begins his journey from Chicago to Washington on the 23rd, and on the 24th, he arrives in D.C. that was Friday, this incident obviously happening on Saturday night. And he checks into the hotel. The U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, Jeanine Pirro, says there will be additional charges she mentioned at the press conference. She says he knew that Trump was in the ballroom and there's a reference to the fact that the event is televised. So I'd be curious to know if they've developed some evidence that he either had the TV on and his room to this event or was somehow streaming the coverage of it so that Alan knew when he would be he being the president of the United States in the ballroom. There's also a reference in the note. We've been reporting on it for the last couple of days, not quoting from it extensively because why give this person more publicity than they were seeking? But there is a line that says administration officials, parentheses, not including Mr. Patel, of course, he's the FBI director. They are targets, prioritized from highest ranking to lowest. So who's the highest ranking member? The Trump administration, the president of the United states, of course. 3. Now, according to the Justice Department, both in the Biden administration and in this administration, three attempts of assassination against the President of the United States. Two of those, of course, is a candidate. And obviously this is all quite serious. And in the backdrop of continued political threats in this country and targeted assassinations, both involving Minnesota lawmakers, the arson attack on Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence, and the assassination of Charl Kirk, just to name a few.
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Melanie Zanona
Yeah, the list goes on and on. Gary, prosecutors just unsealed the charging documents in the case. What more did we learn and what happened in court today?
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Gary Grumbach
Yes, we learned a lot about exactly how he did what he did and what he had on him at the time. Prosecutors saying today in court that he had a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. That is the one that apparently he did fire at least one shot from. He also had a.38 caliber semiautomatic pistol, three knives, and as the prosecutor said in court today, other dangerous paraphernalia. We don't exactly know exactly what else that will be, but that will certainly come out as this investigation and this case unfolds here in court. He walked in with a blue jumpsuit on, sat down, answered all the questions from the judge as the judge read and read him his rights and read him the three charges against him that could be if he is found guilty and if he is convicted here, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars because of that attempted assassination charge. And we also talked through exactly how exactly he walked through, ran through those magnometers saying that the Secret Service officer was shot once in the chest. The officer was wearing a ballistic vest at the time. He has since been released from the hospital and he's doing just fine. The officer then drew his service weapon and fired multiple times at Cole Allen, who fell to the ground, but was not hit by any of those shots. So he was injured just by simply falling to the ground and then was apprehended from that point. So an interesting play by play of exactly what happened in the lobby of the ballroom.
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Melanie Zanona
And Carol, we just heard about those charges, but talk to me about what kind of sentences are actually associated with those charges.
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Carol Lam
Yeah, I think Tom was exactly right in the way he recapped that. The, the most serious charge, of course, targeting the assassination of the President of the United States. Because there was no actual death in the case, the death penalty is off the table, but it does carry potential life sentence. And then there's the discharge of a firearm during the crime of violence. That carries a minimum mandatory 10 years enhancement to the sentence that you would get on count one. With which is the attempted assassination and then there's the transportation of the firearms across state lines, which carries at least a five year sentence. So serious charges with the sentence enhancement as well. So those are the potential charges.
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Melanie Zanona
Monica, I want to turn to you over at the White House. What are we hearing from the White House and how is the president reacting to these latest charges?
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Monica Alba
Well, Mel, the White House did have a press briefing earlier today ahead of the DOJ presser. And Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, was actually supposed to be on maternity leave already. She indicated on Friday that that was going to be her last day working. She, of course, was at the dinner and then was supposed to go off and have her next baby. But she said she wanted to come today and brief reporters and take questions, given the circumstances, given the fact that she was there and wanted the president, she says, wanted her to be able to come forward and share some additional information. So we know that they wanted to get out and do that before the DOJ press or before we learned all the details about these specific charges. And the president, from what I can tell, I'm checking my phone, has actually been weighing in on other matters on Truth Social. He's been talking about different renovation projects and other news stories, but hasn't specifically talked about this beyond his comments last night on 60 Minutes and what he has been generally talking about and what he said from that very same lectern in the briefing room on Saturday night just a couple of hours after he was rushed from that stage, which is that he is applauding law enforcement, their efforts overall. He's saying that they acted quite quickly in order to neutralize the suspect, but of course now raising these larger legitimate questions about the security footprint. So this is a White House right now that is letting the sort of legal process play out on that lane and then in their own lane, they are making this about what this could mean for future events. And a security review that is starting to get underway that the White House will have to kind of look at holistically whether they are going to change anything in light of this event. The president has been a little bit critical of the Washington Hilton as a venue itself, saying that maybe there were some vulnerabilities and he's trying to use that to try to make the pitch for his $400 million ballroom project. But that is facing some legal hurdles. So you're hearing a lot of different messages from the administration. But Caroline Levitt, who was also working around the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt in 2024, was making the point today that this is the now third assassination attempt against the President in the last couple of years. And they are really trying to project to the American people and to the public that they say the President is going to continue to appear at events, is going to continue to carry on, but behind the scenes, we know that there are discussions about what that actually looks like.
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Melanie Zanona
Yeah, no doubt that's going to be a huge storyline in the days ahead. Gary, Jeanine Pirro said that additional charges are likely to come in this case. Do we have any sense of when that might happen?
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Gary Grumbach
So this is all part of the investigative process. Right. They are literally only about 48 hours removed from when this incident actually happened. And look at what they've done already. They've already searched the individual's house in California. They know he came from California via train through Chicago and then over here to D.C. they know when he checked in, they've searched his room. They searched the items that were certainly on his person at the time. And so they're going to take all of that information and look through it and try to find a motive here.
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Tom Winter
There.
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Gary Grumbach
Yes, we have certainly that document, that email that was sent to individuals that he was related to about exactly sort of what his intent could be, but they're going to look into more of that, talk to those individuals that he sent that to. What did mom and dad know? What did any significant others perhaps know about the situation? And further charges could come based off those conversations.
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Melanie Zanona
Carol, one thing the suspect was not charged with was assaulting a federal officer, at least not yet. Are you surprised by that?
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Carol Lam
I am a little surprised by that, given that that was the initial reaction of the Justice Department was, you know, there seemed to be no question that the Secret Service agent was. Was shot. And what this suggests to me, because both the complaint and the affidavit attached to the complaint were a little bit ambiguous about what actually happened there. What that tells me is that Jeanine Perot's office probably wants to take a little more time to look at the ballistics and see what actually happened there. Did the discharge of the firearm actually occ his gun or perhaps a law enforcement gun? It doesn't matter legally, because if there's a discharge of a firearm during these events that he caused by his actions, he can be held responsible for the discharge. But I think we have to wait and see what actually happens, because as you read the complaint today, there's no actual tie of the charges to the actual injuries suffered by the Secret Service agent.
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Melanie Zanona
And Tom, I know you referenced the writings earlier from the gunman. What are we learning from those writings? And do investigators think anything he posted publicly could have been perceived as a potential red flag?
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Tom Winter
Well, as far as the public postings, there's nothing that comes out that indicates some sort of an overt threat. I mean, you are entitled to say all sorts of things that most people, I think, would deem to be horrible about a whole variety of topics from a whole bunch of different perspectives. But we have the First Amendment in this country and people have a right to that free speech. Where it becomes a problem from a law enforcement perspective is when we move from speech into threat that crosses a threshold for which things can't be prosecuted. Look, we're still going through the social media of this individual. There are undoubtedly accounts that we might not be, that we can't see or have since been taken down. As I sit here at 4:16 Eastern Time on Monday afternoon, there's nothing that comes across as an overt threat that the FBI or another law enforcement agency could have used to make an arrest ahead of time. As far as the writings go, what are we learning from that other than everything? I mean, I think it's very clear the individual's intentions here. There's really no ambiguity. And so that's something that clearly forms the foundation and most of the walls of this, of this criminal complaint.
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Melanie Zanona
Yeah, Carol, on that subject, how important do you think these writings will be when it comes to this case?
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Carol Lam
Yeah, I mean, it would take a pretty creative defense attorney to come up with a very effective defense in this case. And to the extent, you know, this is obviously a very intelligent individual and to the extent that these writings are out there, they, they pretty much do away with a lot of what you might as a defense attorney hope to say, for example, an insanity defense or something like that. And certainly it doesn't help his case that he signs it as your friendly, you know, federal assassin. There seems to be, you know, he doesn't leave lot of room for a great defense here. There's, you know, the fact that he didn't get close to the ballroom in the sense that it was on a different floor, you know, perhaps opens the door a little bit to some kind of defense. But, you know, it's, to Tom's point, it's pretty, it's a pretty clear cut case here.
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Melanie Zanona
I want to bring you into this conversation, especially on the security aspect of this. There are a lot of questions about the lack of security, but the President has said that the protocols worked as they should have do you see this as a success from the Secret Service perspective?
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Evie Pompous
So let's clarify when we see lack of security, the security plan worked the way it's designed. The way it's designed is you create a perimeter, you figure out where your protector, the president, United States going to be and you build a security around it. Now, I know people are talking about it's a hotel, it's active, people are moving in and out. I've done dozens of hotels. I've never been able to shut down a hotel. So what we're looking at is the placement.
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Melanie Zanona
I want to I need to pause this conversation for a moment for a very different kind of breaking news. You're looking at some live pictures of King Charles and Queen Camilla arriving at the White House right now. It's their first official trip to the US With Charles as the reigning monarch. And it's also the first state visit by a British monarch since Charles mother Queen Elizabeth in 2007. Let's listen in. It's this afternoon. The King and Queen are expected to have tea and take a tour of the White House beehives with the President and the first lady followed by a garden party event at the British Embassy. This White House visit is the first stop on the King and Queen's high profile four day state visit celebrating 250 years of American independence with a goal of reinforcing the bond between the two countries. Tomorrow, the King will deliver a joint address to Congress and attend a state dinner at the White House. House. Monica, I'm going to turn back to the conversation that we were having before about these security measures. You alluded to this earlier. The White House is set to talk about some of these security measures later this week. What is the White House saying about what changes potentially could be made?
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Monica Alba
Yeah, and it's interesting, Mel, because we obviously had some of these discussions that we reported on In 2024, in the summer after the Butler assassination attempt, when it was then candidate Donald Trump, but still he was under Secret Service protection since he had been a former president at that point. And so you did see some shifts to how they conducted some outdoor events. There was a pause in those kinds of events and then they did change some of those things that were apparent to us and that we were able to report on. But behind the scenes, there are always adjustments that can be made that aren't necessarily talked about or revealed because they would potentially endanger the security protocol. So what's going to happen this week is the White House chief of staff, Susie Wiles is going to meet with the head of the U.S. secret Service and DHS leadership to assess what happened over the weekend. And we should be clear that according to the White House, the President is standing with the current leadership, that he does feel that the way that all of this was done in response was handled appropriately. At least that is how they are describing it today. So they stand by how it was dealt with with this attempted attack. But they do want to be sure to huddle together and make a determination about whether future events. Governments need to have some adjustment. So it's too soon to say what that might look like. We know, for instance, over these next couple of days in the state visit with King Charles and Queen Camilla that you were just referencing, that's going on as planned. It doesn't seem like they're making adjustments to that yet. But again, it may not be entirely clear or we may not know until after the fact, but there are some very large events that the President is slated to be a part of. Over the last many months, he has attended about a dozen sporting events. He has gone to very high profile events with thousands and thousands of people at different kinds of venues and stadiums. And so the question is, is that something that's going to continue or will there be a pause on that? Will there be any kind of rethinking of his participation or the way that he's going to be involved in some of those America to 50 events that are scheduled to take place around the 4th of July around celebrating America's independence? That is what they're going to start to review. And it sounds like there will be one meeting this week and of course that will continue because there will need to be more of those now.
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Melanie Zanona
And I want to bring you back into this conversation. Talk to me about how security at these types of events like the White House Correspondent center typically work. And given just how many people were in the line of succession that were in attendance, do you think that that should have been given a higher security designation in your view?
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Evie Pompous
This event's been going on for years. So they're following the protocol, a security protocol that they typically had. When you do a side advance, it's called a side advance as an agent, especially if it's been done, they do hand you the paperwork and say, hey, this is what's been done before. It seems to work well. And then you look at that blueprint. There are times where I've done site advances and I have pushed back and said, look, I understand this was done this way before, but I don't Think this is going to work. And I think in the environment that we're in, we've had three assassination attempts. We are looking at a different type of protection plan here that needs to come into place. So it's pushing out the security perimeter, that look, that magnetometer checkpoint, it's really the first line of defense. The question that's being raised is, is it too close? Do you want a tighter perimeter? Do you want to push it out? Now if you push it out, and there was discussion about how the individual actually came, went down to the event, right. He used one of the stairwells internally so nobody would see him. He was undetected, came down, popped out outside the magnetometers. But then when you watch the video, you do see him cruise through super fast. Right? So that's an issue. Is that too close? Do I want more manpower in these stairwells? And, and I would push back and say, should you even be doing an event like this in a hotel if you have so many protectees and all these protect these cabinet members, keep in mind they're being protected by different groups. Secretary Rubio, Department of State, you know, hhs, Kennedy, he's probably got marshals, your members of Congress, a speaker, Capitol police. So you do have a large amount of people in that room. And that does bring concern. The other thing too, that nobody's really talking about is the attendees. You're responsible for all human life. So I'm not just responsible for the president, the vice president, these cabinet members and other protectees. What about the 24, 2600 plus people in there? I have to make sure that they're okay. They are going to where the threat is. The threat is these protectees. So having a plan in place, are they safe? Can I get them out, out of the exit? What if I have a biochemical attack and he used weapons? So now, well, what if he didn't use a weapon? So we bring in the concept of an ied, any type of explosive device. So then where does my security perimeter go? He checked in and had a room. Can you clear these rooms? Now you're talking about fourth amendment right issues. Do I legally, as an agent have the ability to go clear hotel rooms, to look at individuals? So I would, I would suspect that when they're having these closed door talks right now, they should be changing the way they do things. Secret Service has always been an agency that's never liked to intervene, never liked to say no. And in fact it was always told like, we don't say no, we make it work. And I suspect that that's not going to. That's not going to work anymore. I think no should be more prevalent. It should be, we can't do this. This is why. This is why we shouldn't do this. This is what we encourage now. Is your protect going to get more into that bubble?
- [26:16]
Monica Alba
Right.
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Evie Pompous
He's a public figure. You want him out there shaking hands, being in these photos, you know, I get pushed back a lot with like, hey, we want him exposed. And as an individual that puts a security plan together, I would say, well, I don't want him exposed because I can't guarantee his safety. And so how are we. What is protection going to look like in the future? And I think it's really significantly going to change.
- [26:38]
Melanie Zanona
Well, to your exact point. After the first two assassination attempts of President Donald Trump in Pennsylvania, in Florida, the acting head of the Secret Service called for a paradigm shift and how the agency protects the president. So do you think we've seen that shift?
- [26:55]
Evie Pompous
One of the things I would say, you may, you, you may have and you may not. One of the reasons I say, you may not, it seems as though. And again, I can't. I don't have confirmation. The security plan used for this specific event was one that's been used before. That's the concern there. And it requires a specific type of agent to go, an event. And I've had it and push back. And I've. I've had events where I've gone to. Actually, I had an event, President Barack Obama, where he went to a hotel resort, people moving in and out. I couldn't shut the hotel down. They gave me the site survey from the individual, the agent that did it before me, and it's like, hey, this person did it. Not a heavy lift. And when I look through it and I actually walk the perimeter, for me, I was like, I can't secure this. I don't think this is done well. So when I go back and I give inflated numbers, I want more resources, I want more tactical teams. They're looking at me like, like, where are you coming up with these numbers? When this other person secured it with these other numbers. And so I had to make the argument and it was a lot of pushback. He secured it. I think we were very fortunate nothing happened. If you truly want me to secure it, this is what I need. So it is a negotiation process. You have to have the ability to go there and really advocate and say, no, I'm not going to do it with this. This is what I need. Now, if you want to give me five agents, I'll secure it with five. But but for me to say this is a safe venue, this is what I need. So I do suspect that because sometimes with some of these events, it's been done before, here's our plan. I don't think these plans are working anymore. And we're seeing I've never seen it and I've worked under multiple administrations. I have never experienced the level of threats that I've seen with this president and this administration as opposed to all the other protectives I've seen before. This is it truly is astonishing.
- [28:44]
Melanie Zanona
Effy, thank you so much for that just fascinating and important perspective. My thanks to Monica, Tom, Gary and Carol as well. In the wake of Saturday's assassination attempt, White House press secretary Karen Levitt today blasted Democrats while also blaming the left for the rise in political violence. Take a listen.
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Karen Levitt
The left wing cult of hatred against
- [29:07]
Melanie Zanona
the president and all of those who support him and work for him has gotten multiple people hurt, hurt and killed.
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Karen Levitt
And it almost did so again this weekend. When you read the manifesto of this shooter, ask yourselves how different is the rhetoric from this almost assassin than what you read on social media and hear in various forums every single day?
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Melanie Zanona
The answer, if you're being honest with
- [29:32]
Karen Levitt
yourself, is that there is no difference at all.
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Melanie Zanona
Joining me now is Cynthia Miller, Idris, director of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab at American University. I want to start with what we just heard from the press secretary blaming a left wing cult of hatred for the shooting. Are we seeing an uptick in political stream extremism on the left of the political spectrum? And what are we seeing in terms of on the right side of the political spectrum?
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Karen Levitt
Yeah, we have definitely seen an uptick in political violence across the spectrum, across the ideological spectrum and across the sort of non ideological spectrum, I would say, meaning political violence that's motivated by grievances and sort of personality challenges related to anger directed at political leaders or at issues or at even the CEO, the health care CEO in New York City. So and we're seeing upticks in rhetoric across the board that that not only, you know, can facilitate further anger toward elected officials, but also doesn't condemn the violence, especially when it happens to the other side or from your own sort of side. So I think one of the first things we have to see is condemnation of the viol across the board in a bipartisan way. And we also have to look at issues of not just protection of our leaders, but prevention of violence which I hope that we can talk about as well.
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Melanie Zanona
And based on what we know, at least so far, does the suspect fit sort of the typical profile of what you would consider a violent extremist?
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Karen Levitt
I think we're not seeing the same kind of typical profile over the last three, four or five years compared to what we had seen before. So we're seeing less and less, less violence that's motivated by traditional ideologies, far left or far right or Islamist, and much more a mix of grievances, personal complaints, and then a kind of pursuit of meaning and belonging and a desire to have some sort of impact on the world. Almost grand in grandiose ways.
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Donald Trump
Right.
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Karen Levitt
Thinking that they might be a martyr for a cause. And this certainly fits that type of profile in terms of his writing, in terms of feeling like he. He's almost speaking from a place of despair about not feeling like he's see the world that he wants and then somehow turning that into mobilization to violence. That's different than feeling like there's an ideology that you're trying to achieve here. This is a really despairing kind of vision, almost one of hopelessness is the kind of tone of his writing.
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Melanie Zanona
And the press secretary also referenced the role of social media. There was actually a Gallup poll from last year that found people who agree it is sometimes okay to use violence to achieve a political goal are more likely to use social media multiple hours a day. What do you make of those numbers?
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Karen Levitt
Yeah, we have definitely seen the role of social media in proliferating conspiracy theories, false flag claims even about this attack almost immediately and informanting kind of violence and the resulting support for violence and the use of violence as a sort of acceptable means to an end, increasing across the political spectrum. But we also see that people don't want to live this way. And so one of the things I find when I speak to high school students, to parents, to everyone in communities is that they don't want their children to be in violent situations. They don't want to be in violent situations themselves across the spectrum. And so I think that's really important to realize.
- [32:57]
Melanie Zanona
And Cynthia, real quickly here, I want to talk about what brings an individual individual from online to offline, and is it reasonable to expect law enforcement to investigate anyone else who may have made the same kind of remarks online?
- [33:10]
Karen Levitt
Yeah, it's a great question because I think it's an impossible ask to think that law enforcement can be perfect every time, in fact, that the ira, when they had a failed assassination attempt against a British member of the royal family, Once said, you know, that's okay. They have to get it right every time. We only have to get it right once. And so the idea that we can be safer by just continuing to increase our security perimeters or building bigger fences, I think is a false, is really a false claim here. We have to prevent people from seeing that their individual grievances should be mobilized into violent action by helping them off ramp earlier, by educating communities about warning signs and investing in kind of primary prevention that helps them create digital media literacy to reject propaganda manipulation and other harmful things that provably move grievances to violence.
- [34:01]
Melanie Zanona
As a researcher, how do you draw attention to rising political violence on either side of the aisle without suggesting that people are inherently violent based on political affiliation?
- [34:10]
Karen Levitt
I think, you know, we are seeing a society that's more violent. We have something like a 400% increase in road rating incidents. We've had increases in domestic violence. We have increases in political violence. So people are feeling hopeless and scared for a reason. But I also know that people don't believe that this is the way we have to live and they don't want to live this way. So we also point to what you can do provably, which is increase people's sense of belonging, efficacy, their sense of agency, their sense of purpose, meaning community, social cohesion. All of these things provably have in an evidence based way from decades of public health research on violence prevention, shown that you can create safer communities through education and prevention work and not just by securitizing ourselves further. You can only build the castle wall so high and I don't think any of us want to live that way.
- [35:03]
Melanie Zanona
No doubt. Cynthia, thank you so much for bringing us your important expertise. We'll dig deeper into the rise of political violence, the surge of conspiracy theories, and the President's response to another assassination attempt. The panel is next. This is Meet the Press now. Hey guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit down podcast.
- [35:25]
Tom Winter
On this week's episode, I sit down
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Melanie Zanona
with one of the biggest bands in the world, Mumford and Sons, as we get the boys together to talk about their new number one album, Prize Fighter and the evolution of that irresistible foot stomping sound. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts. Let's kickstart your wellness journey with the Start Today app.
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Melanie Zanona
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Melanie Zanona
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- [36:37]
Evie Pompous
Let's just take a step back.
- [36:38]
Melanie Zanona
It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Welcome back. President Trump is seizing on the incident at the White House Correspondent center to make the case for the construction of a White House ballroom, which is already facing legal separation. Facts. Here's some of what the president said about the need for a ballroom. We need the ballroom.
- [37:04]
Donald Trump
That's why Secret Service, that's why the military are demanding it. And you know, as you know, we're
- [37:08]
Melanie Zanona
building a big, beautiful, very, very secure
- [37:11]
Matt Bradley
ballroom in every way with massive bulletproof glass.
- [37:15]
Melanie Zanona
It's almost 4 inches thick.
- [37:16]
Donald Trump
It's pretty amazing stuff. It's not a safe ballroom. I'm building a safe ballroom. And one of the reasons I'm building it is exactly what happened last night.
- [37:27]
Melanie Zanona
Joining me now is the panel Tamara Keith, senior political correspondent for NPR and host of NPR's Politics Podcast. She's also a former president of the White House Correspondent Association Scott Wong, NBC News senior congressional reporter Kendra Barkoff, former press secretary to Vice President Biden and Stephen Hayes, editor and CEO of the Dispatch and an NBC News contributor. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Just such a crazy weekend. Tamara, I want to start with you as a former president of the White House Correspondents Association. Put into perspective for viewers, though, why this idea of holding the White House Correspondents Dinner at something like the White House ballroom is just not a possibility.
- [38:08]
Tamara Keith
The entire point of the White House Correspondents association dinner is to honor a free and independent press and First Amendment guarantees for the press and the idea of of holding an event on the White House grounds, a private organization meant for the independence of the press to hold their event on White House grounds would just have huge ethical issues, but also would just completely contradict the message and the point of the dinner. Also, from a purely logistical standpoint, the White House Correspondents association dinner in that Hilton 2,600 tickets, 2600 seats at the White House, the new ballroom that President Trump wants to build. And it is a very large ballroom that seats 1,000 people. So it's not even close in terms of just the size.
- [39:03]
Melanie Zanona
And it goes towards funding for scholarships. Right, the tickets and everything that's raised from these dinners.
- [39:07]
Tamara Keith
Yes, it funds scholarships and awards and also the work that the WHCA does to protect the rights of the press in the White House.
- [39:15]
Melanie Zanona
The other question I had for you is that Trump said he wants to reschedule in 30 days. Of course, he does not host this event, but just how feasible is it, especially given the conservative security concerns, to try to arrange a large scale event like this in just a short amount of time?
- [39:29]
Tamara Keith
The, the, the WHCA board is meeting to discuss this. That's the official word. As a former president, it like, gives me heart palpitations to even think about trying to restage this dinner this quickly. It takes months to plan. There's a team that comes out from Hollywood to help stage the dinner. There's the mentalist and his schedule, the President's schedule, all of these executives who came in. And also the Hilton is booked up years in advance, as are all the other venues in Washington, D.C. i just, I just don't know how they would pull it off.
- [40:03]
Melanie Zanona
Right. Even security concerns, and I'm not even talking about security. Scott, I want to turn to you. You were at the dinner along with myself. We were also both at the Capitol on January 6th. Talk to me about just the rise in political violence that we've been seeing and what you make of the moment that we're in right now.
- [40:20]
Scott Wong
I mean, look, historically, political violence has always been a part of the culture, right? I mean, four presidents have been assassinated in American history. Ronald Reagan was almost killed at that very hotel, the Washington Hilton, just shortly after taking office. Sadly, Mel, you know, in our careers in Washington, we have seen too many instances of political violence. One of the first stories I ever covered on Capitol Hill back in 2011 was the assassination attempt on Gabby Giffords, a Democrat. I was in Tucson, Arizona that same afternoon, standing in front of the Safeway looking at the vigil that was laid out for Gabby Giffords. We've seen the Congressional baseball shooting since then. We've seen the attempts on President Trump's life. And of course, as you mentioned, we were both in the Capitol on January 6th. I think in this moment, Americans, people in Washington are looking for leadership. They're looking for the leaders to come together and say, enough is enough. We need to tone down the rhetoric it is contributing, it's not the main cause of the political violence, but certainly it is triggering some people who are definitely mentally disturbed in combination with, you know, with our gun culture in America. And so I think we need to see the two sides come together and say something collectively versus pointing the fingers, which is what we've seen in the last three days or so.
- [41:51]
Melanie Zanona
Yeah, that would be nice. But speaking of rhetoric, we have seen a rise in conspiracy theories, Stephen, online. Part of that has been fueled by Trump's renewed push for a ballroom. What do you just make of the idea of how quickly these conspiracy theories spread online? We saw the same thing after the assassination attempts.
- [42:08]
Stephen Hayes
Yeah. I mean, almost instantly. Right. I talked to somebody yesterday who said, do you think this actually happened? I said, yeah, I definitely think this actually happened. I mean, there were 2,000 reporters or 1,000 reporters plus in the room to watch it happen. Yeah, look, I mean, I think the problem. I think Scott's absolutely right. This has been with us for a while. This isn't new, but we can in quantify, point to the increased threats. I mean, the Capitol Hill police last year, the jump in threats that they investigated from 2024 to 2025 was like 9,400 to almost 15,000 threats. The challenge, part of the challenge is in this world that's ever connected and where social media drives sort of this attention economy, people say irresponsible things, the extremists get the attention, and that's. That's who people pay attention to. And it's. Sometimes it's sort of whack job conspiracy theorists. Sometimes it's senators like Mike Lee after this Senate, a tweet blaming the New York Times for not putting this on its front page, as if there was some conspiracy for the Times, keeping it off the front page. No, it was beyond their publication time. I mean, these are sort of basic explanations. But just watching this, I was not at the dinner, but following it in real time. You started to see these conspiracy theories on social media moments after this happened, and it's really disturbing.
- [43:28]
Melanie Zanona
Yeah. What we heard in the White House briefing room today from Karen Levitt, she was blaming Democrats and the left, but the president himself has also engaged in conspiracy theories. You know, we mentioned January 6th. He had a role in instigating some of the violence that took place that day. Kendra, what do you make of.
- [43:44]
Kendra Barkoff
Yeah, I mean, I think leadership starts from the top. And when your president is out there saying that somebody should die or that you should punch somebody, you know, he went after senators Mark Kelly, for speaking what they thought was their truth. I think you have a real vacuum in leadership which is gonna cause these issues. And to this, the point about conspiracy theories online and how quickly they spread, this is an online social media problem. And it's gonna continue getting worse as AI gets, you know, becomes more powerful. And so all of these Internet companies have a responsibility themselves. And until section 230, which is a long time statute that's been put in place to allow people to say whatever they want online and for social media to not have to be held accountable for certain things that individuals say, this problem is going to continue. It's going to get worse. And so that I actually think you're starting to see members of Congress on both sides of the aisle who are really saying enough is enough. We really have to pull back on some of this stuff. And that starts with this section 230 because until that happens, Republicans, the political rhetoric is just going to get out of control.
- [44:51]
Melanie Zanona
Well, Scott, to your point earlier, it's not just Republicans who are facing these types of threats and attempts. It's also Democrats. Talk to me about what the mood is like on Capitol Hill. We've also seen an uptick in the threats to members of Congress. It's at an all time high. How are members feeling in this moment after the weekend?
- [45:07]
Scott Wong
Yeah, clearly very uneasy. Especially the members of Congress who are left behind in that ballroom.
- [45:12]
Melanie Zanona
Right.
- [45:13]
Scott Wong
As the cabinet and the Vice President and the President of the United States and First lady were ushered out of there under protection, members of Congress have felt the threats to them intensify. Stephen alluded to the 15,000 threats in 2025 alone, which is an all time high. They're fearful. They're ramping up security in their homes back in their districts. When they're out and about in their districts talking to constituents, they make sure that they're talking to the local police department to ensure there's a presence there. They are taking, taking all of the measures possible because of the increased threats that they are getting online in phone calls to their person. We have just really seen a ramp up in these threats against members and
- [46:01]
Melanie Zanona
in some cases it's driving members to retire. There have been multiple lawmakers who have retired and said one of the reasons is cuz I just can't do this for my family and our safety anymore. The other thing I want to talk about is the first lady because she is very quiet. Usually she doesn't speak out a lot. But she did come out today and slammed Jimmy Kimmel for His monologue that he did prior to the dinner, of course. But what do you make, Tamara, of the fact that the first lady is actually speaking out here?
- [46:29]
Tamara Keith
The first lady speaks out only when she wants to speak out, when it's important. And she is very protective of her family, and she is very protective of the president. And she was there in that ballroom and. And was evacuated along with the president. You saw her realization in real time that something was going wrong. And the president talked about how she was really upset by it, having seen her documentary, which was more of a film that she produced herself. So not truly a documentary, but it included footage of her after Butler in preparation for the inauguration, wanting that parade to be canceled, wanting the events to be held inside because she was so worried about the safety of her husband. So not surprising to see her weigh in. But also, she is savvy, and this is a political fight that the president and his allies want to have.
- [47:25]
Melanie Zanona
Yeah. And Trump even said that she was traumatized by the events on Saturday. Steven, I do want to play some sound of what Speaker Johnson said earlier today about the role of rhetoric, and we'll talk about it on the other side. They've incited violence, in my view. I mean, you have some of the most prominent figures in the House and the Senate on the day, Democrat side, effectively, you know, calling for.
- [47:45]
Gary Grumbach
For. For war.
- [47:47]
Melanie Zanona
I mean, they use that.
- [47:48]
Carol Lam
Those kinds of metaphors, and it incites violence because there are crazy people in society.
- [47:54]
Melanie Zanona
Stephen, do you think rhetoric like that help turn down the volume?
- [47:58]
Stephen Hayes
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm actually sympathetic to the very basic point that he makes there. I do think that, you know, the rhetoric has gotten too extreme. But, you know, Mike Johnson is somebody who's consistently defending the president. The president uses rhetoric like this all the time and has for the entire time he's been in public office. So I think he's right to call for Democrats to tone down the rhetoric, and I think Democrats should pay heed. But I also think it's more powerful if somebody like Mike Johnson, when President Trump says it, says, you know what, Mr. President, you don't speak for me. You don't speak for Republicans. That's irresponsible language. How often do those of us around this table see Republicans call out the President when he does that? Not very.
- [48:37]
Melanie Zanona
Yeah, not at all. There's some moments of Kumbaya after some of these events. We saw that on Saturday. They don't tend to last, though. Kendra, are you hopeful that this incident will be any different?
- [48:47]
Kendra Barkoff
I wish it I wish I am. I am not hopeful, but I wish it were the case. I think you're right. I think you get a very short stint of rallying together. I think especially since the media was there, it's an important thing to do because it is about freedom of the press in our First Amendment right. But I think unfortunately it's going to take something even worse for really there to be some sort of galvanizing thing where everybody can come together.
- [49:12]
Melanie Zanona
Kendra, Stephen, Scott and Tamara, thank you so much for joining us. Up next, we'll head to the Middle east after peace talks between the US And Iran unravel and as Israel and Hezbollah exchange heavy fire days after President Trump announced an extension of the Israel Lebanon ceasefire. Stay with us on MEET THE Press.
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Melanie Zanona
Welcome back. Turning now to the war with Iran, President Trump convened a meeting at the White House today with his top national security officials to discuss the ongoing conflict and the effort to reopen reopen the Strait of Hormuz. It comes after the president abruptly canceled special envoy Steve Wyckoff and Jared Kushner's planned trip to Pakistan over the weekend, where they were expected to meet with Iranian officials. And amid reports that Iran offered the US A deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz but postpone nuclear talks. Today, White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt acknowledged the White House has seen that new proposal.
- [51:17]
Karen Levitt
The proposal was being discussed. I don't want to get ahead of the president or his national security team.
- [51:22]
Melanie Zanona
What I will reiterate is that the
- [51:23]
Karen Levitt
president's red lines with respect to Iran have been made very, very clear, not just to the American public, but also to them as well. I wouldn't say they're considering it I would just say that there was a discussion this morning that I don't want to get ahead of. And you'll hear directly from the President, I'm sure, on this topic very soon.
- [51:41]
Melanie Zanona
Meanwhile, Israel and Lebanon continue to exchange fire with the Israeli military confirming it targeted Hezbollah infrastructure in southern Lebanon. Today the Iran backed military group said it struck an Israeli tank that was violating the ceasefire. Joining me now is NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley in Tel Aviv. Matt, thank you so much for joining us. I want to start with what you are hearing from officials in the region about where talks stand between the US And Iran.
- [52:13]
Matt Bradley
Well, I can tell you that what I'm hearing from officials in the region is not going to clarify the where talks any more than what you're hearing. The last that we heard from the Iranian side was when Abbas Arakchee, the Foreign Minister of Iran, was just visiting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. And then he, rather predictably, and this is what he would do, blamed all of the impasse over these negotiations on the American side and said it was because the US Was asking for too much. Now we've been hearing maximalist demands, and by that I mean basically, basically full on demands that are not really compromising for the past several weeks over this issue. The last we heard from President Trump was to say that he was withdrawing from these talks. He was no longer sending, as you noted, Kushner, nor Witkoff. And he told the Iranians that if they wanted to talk, well, they can call him.
- [53:06]
Melanie Zanona
Last week, President Trump announced the cease fire between Israel and Lebanon would be expected extended for three weeks. Tell me, what is the status of that cease fire?
- [53:17]
Matt Bradley
Yeah, it's interesting question, Mel, because you know, when we're talking about the situation in Lebanon, it really has so much to do with those negotiations between Iran on the one side and America on the other. That was one of the preconditions that the Iranians set even to start those negotiations. But now with that ceasefire and with that extension now for three weeks, weeks, we're really actually seeing the Israeli offensive in Lebanon picking up the pace. We've seen more deaths, we've seen the Israelis expanding the footprint of their warning zone, basically saying that everybody outside of southern Lebanon has to leave. And this is something that has been expanding for the past several weeks and looks to be expanding ever so slightly even more again even with this ceasefire. Now it looks as though the Israelis, and you can really tell from their public comments and others, they are grading under what looks like a US Pressure to halt their offensive in Lebanon. This is a war that has not achieved its goals, just like Israel's war against Iran. So this is something that is going to be controversial for Israelis. The Lebanon issue and Hezbollah is a very, very major preoccupation. And seeing Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli army moving into Lebanon, Lebanon, and now having to stop firing, letting Hezbollah live another day even when they appear to be at their weakest, well, that's not going to be popular. And it's also very clear the Israelis were surprised by just how strong Hezbollah remains more than a year after the last time there was a ceasefire.
- [54:50]
Melanie Zanona
Matt, thank you so much for that important perspective. Right now on Capitol Hill, the Secret Service director is briefing senators about Saturday's shooting at the White House Correspondents Dinner. The incident is also putting the spotlight back on the ongoing shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security. Joining me now to break it all down is NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Cirkin. Julie, just explain to us what is going on here and whether this assassination attempt of the president could finally move the needle on passing DHS funding.
- [55:21]
Julie Cirkin
Now, we're going to need a lot more time to really get into everything that is going on here. But certainly I think there is matter mounting pressure. You heard from Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, opening her remarks today talking about the need to fund this agency because those law enforcement officers, including Secret Service that responded on Saturday night, that took so many members of Congress out of the room, including some Democrats, they're going without pay. So past day 70 of the shutdown. Now, the White House is certainly putting pressure on this branch of government. But here's the thing. Speaker Johnson actually seemed to just go back on his word to pass a Senate passed bill that would have funded the agency minus ICE and Customs and Border Protection. Take a listen to what he said.
- [56:00]
Evie Pompous
Problematic language, haphazardly drafted.
- [56:02]
Melanie Zanona
And so we we've stated our objections about that very clearly.
- [56:06]
Matt Bradley
So you will never put that on the floor.
- [56:08]
Evie Pompous
We have a modified version and I think it's going to be much better for both chambers.
- [56:12]
Melanie Zanona
Doesn't change most of the substance, but it makes sure that we're not going
- [56:16]
Carol Lam
to orphan two of the primary agencies of dhs.
- [56:20]
Julie Cirkin
Now, this started Mel, back in February. So to remind our viewers, Democrats have been holding up funding for the full agency with Immigration and ICE and CBP because they wanted changes to immigration enforcement. Some of those changes have already been made at the executive level, but Democrats want to codify them into law. So Johnson here appearing to go back on his word to just pass that bill and reopen the agencies.
- [56:40]
Melanie Zanona
And Julie, there were also some concerns voiced by members of Congress about their safety during Saturday's incident. What are you hearing about that?
- [56:48]
Julie Cirkin
Yeah, Mellon, I know you had so many conversations about this, too. Look, apparently at 9:54pm There was another announcement over loudspeakers in the ballroom. I got to tell you, though, most of us have already left the ballroom, including members of Congress. But that announcement said that members of Congress should go to the front of the room if they want an escort by Capitol Police back to the Capitol. I walked out of the room with Congressman Jamie Raskin, who obviously didn't hear that message. He was coordinating his own transportation. But certainly this puts a renewed spotlight on the kind of security surrounding these events and also surrounding members of Congress, 530 of them that have had to live with increased threats in this moment of political violence. I also want to just point out that a couple of months ago there was actually an increase already to the monthly stipend the members of Congress are given for their own personal security. You have to remember that only leadership gets detail. So really everybody else is kind of fending for themselves. Although Capitol Police did try to help, at least at the end there.
- [57:39]
Melanie Zanona
Now. Yeah, Julie, this is obviously going to be such a big topic of concern going forward. We've heard from so many members who were already concerned about their safety. I imagine that conversation is going to continue in the days ahead. Julie, thank you so much. We're back tomorrow, though, with more MEET the PRESS now. And there's more ahead on NBC News now.
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