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Meet the Press
Meet the Press NOW — April 6
00:49:24
President Trump ramps up his threats to strike Iran's civilian infrastructure ahead of his Tuesday evening deadline. Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and retired Colonel Steve Warren join Meet the Press NOW to discuss the rescue operation of two airmen who ejected from a downed F-15 deep inside Iran. The astronauts on Artemis II fly by the moon. Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder discusses the NATO chief's upcoming White House visit as the president continues to lash out against allies.
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- [00:00]
Dan Cummins
Hey, it's Dan Cummins.
- [00:02]
Ryan Nobles
If you're into the weird, the wild,
- [00:03]
Dan Cummins
and the downright bizarre, check out my podcast, Time Suck. Each week I dive into shocking stories like the rise of the Nexium cult, the origins of conspiracies like QAnon, and the San Francisco witch killer murders. With deep dives and dark humor, Time Suck brings you the stories that'll fascinate you, make you laugh, and fill your head with lots of strange facts. New episodes drop every Monday. Join the cult of the curious. Follow Time Suck wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:29]
Ryan Nobles
Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two.
- [00:40]
Ivo Daalder
We dive deep with guests that you
- [00:43]
Ryan Nobles
love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the Sirius XM app. Download it today. Hi there and welcome to Meet the Press. Now, I'm Ryan Nobles in Washington, and we begin with breaking news on the war against Iran, with President Trump now threatening to level the country tomorrow, including its civilian infrastructure, unless Tehran makes a deal, essentially doubling down on his profanity laced social media post over the weekend demanding Tehran open the Strait of Hormuz as oil prices continue to climb. Speaking from the White House briefing room this afternoon, President Trump warned that Iran is facing total destruction, but provided little clarity on how much longer the war could last. Here's some of what he had to say.
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Donald Trump
The entire country can be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night.
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Ryan Nobles
Are you concerned that your threat to
- [02:00]
Tom Costello
bomb power plants and bridges amount.
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Donald Trump
No, not at all.
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Leon Panetta
No.
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Donald Trump
I hope I don't have to do it.
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Julie Sorkin
Your messaging on the war has moved from the war is coming to an end to war going to be bombing
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Ryan Nobles
Iran to the Stone Ages.
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Julie Sorkin
And we've heard a range of those kind of messages. So are you.
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Ryan Nobles
So which is it?
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Julie Sorkin
Are you winding this down?
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Donald Trump
I can't tell you. I don't know. I can't. It depends what they do. We're giving them. We're giving them till tomorrow, 8 o' clock Eastern Time. And after that, they're going to have no bridges, they're going to have no power plants. Stone Ages. Yeah. We have a plan because of the power of our military, where every bridge in Iran will be decimated by 12 o' clock tomorrow night where every power plant in Iran will be out of business, burning, exploding and never to be used again. I mean complete demolition by 12 o'. Clock. And it will happen over a period of four hours if we wanted to.
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Ryan Nobles
Now this comes amid reports of a potential 45 day cease fire in the works. A White House official telling NBC News it's one of many things being discussed. Though it remains unclear who exactly the White House is talking to inside Iran. The President was pressed about the state of negotiations twice today. First during the White House Easter egg roll and then again during his press briefing.
- [03:26]
Donald Trump
They've made a proposal and it's a significant proposal. It's a significant step. It's not good enough, but it's a very significant step. They have made the negotiating now and they've made a very significant step. We'll see what happens. I can't talk about ceasefire, but I can tell you that we have a active willing participant on the other side. They would like to be able to make a deal. I can't say any more than that.
- [03:54]
Ryan Nobles
Now Iran's state media is reporting that Tehran is rejecting the possibility of a temporary cease fire, instead emphasizing the need for the permanent end to the war. All of it coming after. The President's expletive laced social media post on Easter Sunday sent shockwaves across the globe where he renewed his threat to launch strikes on Iran's civilian infrastructure if the Strait of Hormuz isn't Open by his 8pm deadline tomorrow. Writing quote, open the effin straight you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. The President today defending that crude language.
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Julie Sorkin
Why does he use such vulgar language
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Tom Costello
in that true social post?
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Donald Trump
Only to make my point. I think you've heard it before.
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Ryan Nobles
Joining me now is NBC News White House correspondent Julie Serkin, NBC News national security reporter Gordon Lubold, NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons and NBC News senior business correspondent Christine Romans. Julie, let's start with you. What else stood out to you from the President's press conference today?
- [04:55]
Julie Sorkin
Ryan, I'll start on those rescued airmen because it was really interesting the level of detail that the President gave. At one point he even wanted Dan Kaine to provide the exact number of troops, military personnel that were involved in this effort. And Kaine said he rather not especially. Kaine said if they have to do this sometime again soon. I also thought the President, when he was asked in regards to that operation whether everybody was on board, he actually revealed that they weren't. He said a number of very senior military officials were Nervous that this would be a very daring operation that could potentially cost lives. It would cost equipment, it would cost a lot of money. And again, as the President laid out, this was a plane that was taken out by a shoulder missile. Again that was extremely interesting and it was new. Now in addition to that, the President did say on oil for example, that he wants to take seize the oil from Iran but he won't do it, most likely because of people back home. They wouldn't be satisfied with it. But the President did say why does he want the oil? Well, he said, quote, I'm a businessman first. I thought that was extremely interesting. A notable omission from the President there. Admission. Excuse me. As well as the plan. The President repeatedly saying he will not provide details. Forgive that noise as you see the grass being cut behind me there. But the President did say when it comes to that plan that it could start at 8pm tomorrow, it could last until midnight, it could go on for four hours. And then the President said all of Iran's power plants will be decimated. He was asked if that is a war crime under international law. It certainly could be the President saying he believes the Iranian people would want that kind of move. He also again said that the Iranian regime had killed thousands of protesters over the last two months. Again saying that he's not sure if this is a war that is escalating or is winding down as he considers a cease fire proposal put forward this morning by Pakistan. Ryan.
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Ryan Nobles
Julie, do you get the sense the President is feeling a bit emboldened after the US military operation to rescue the US airman who was shot down?
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Julie Sorkin
Absolutely. Several times he detailed the military operation. I thought that exchange that I mentioned with General Kaine where Kaine clearly did not want to give away classified intelligence sensitive information. The President saying multiple times referring to the fact that those details could have made a movie. He talked about the fact that this was the most historic operation, essentially saying that it's never been done before. We know there have been countless risky and dangerous operations that have been conducted to rescue Americans, troops and civilians alike. But the President multiple times spoke about this operation in terms of forecasting and showing off American strength and might only he said, the President, that this is something that Americans can do. He said the technology that we have, the anti air defense capabilities, even the planes, the 155 aircraft the President said were involved in this is something that showcased the American military might. And again it comes at a very critical point. You know, I thought it was even interesting when the President was Asked about Artemis. Right, the space shuttle operation that is taking place right now, he said it comes at a critical time so that the Americans can continue to showcase its might as they're involved in this war in Iran. So all of those things the president very eager to show off today.
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Ryan Nobles
And finally, the president also kind of alarmingly threatened jail time today for whomever leaked the news about the US Pilot who was rescued. Let's first listen to what he had to say.
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Donald Trump
We're looking very hard to find that leaker. So whoever knows, we think we'll be able to find it out because we're going to go to the media company that released it and we're going to say national security, give it up or go to jail.
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Ryan Nobles
Threatening jail time against reporters. How seriously do you expect the administration will pursue this investigation?
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Julie Sorkin
Ryan, this is something we know that has been weighing on the mind of the president for days, ever since that leak first surfaced on Friday. We know that the White House was intentionally very quiet not to reveal details when that first airman, the pilot, was rescued from Iran. Again, the president not really saying much until the second airman was rescued in those early morning hours, the late night hours of Saturday, I should say. And so this is something I know that the White House is going to take seriously. In addition to those comments that you just heard, President Trump said that this was a leak that endangered the rest of the operation. They said that it became a much more difficult operation to rescue that second airman. Again, you had American personnel, hundreds of them, the president said, involved in this. You had 155 aircraft involved in this. And again, this was happening not in the middle of the night, but in broad daylight. So for those reasons, the president said it is extremely pertinent for them to find out who this leaker is. We know the administration has been trying to prevent leaks, a shift that we've seen in the president's second term than the first term. And so this is something I expect they will take extremely seriously, especially at the Department of Defense. We know Pete Hex sit there at the helm of that department has tried to keep media access restricted. And the message very carefully crafted coming from the Pentagon, whoever needs to hear it, Ryan.
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Ryan Nobles
Okay, Julie Sorkin, thanks for that. Let's turn now to Gordon, who's in studio here with me. Obviously, the president's proud of this mission to save this airman. Obviously, we're very glad that he is home. But it did not come without a cost, perhaps hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military aircraft that were lost As a result of this, what more can you tell us about what went into this mission? The planning and the execution?
- [10:07]
Gordon Lubold
Sure. So military always likes to talk about, it's a planning organization. It sure came to bear in this case. And I think as this conflict has unfolded the last several weeks, the threat that something like this could happen was you plan for all the more. And so there was definitely a plan to kind of figure out in vague way, like depending on the circumstances, how to go in. You know, again, as Julie said, and as the President said, there's a stuff of Hollywood, you know, like behind enemy lines, very risky. The first, the first rescue of the first airmen, as the President said, was done by day, super perilous, very dangerous. But that was conducted fairly quickly as we learned a little bit more about today. The second one, far more perilous just because it was, it required more assets, a lot of aircraft, a lot of personnel, and, and it was done under cover of darkness. I think, as Julie said and the President mentioned, I think the, the biggest thing to me that we learned was that what brought down the F15E aircraft to begin with was a shoulder fired weapon shot by, you know, any operative of the regime and really kind of laid bare the perils not just of, you know, the Air Force and the Navy, which the US military is all but decimated in many ways, but the individual threats posed by individuals on the ground.
- [11:40]
Ryan Nobles
And the President also talked about a contingency plan. They needed to use lighter aircraft. What more do we know about that?
- [11:45]
Gordon Lubold
Right. I think that's more the President just kind of providing commentary on, on an operation that he's clearly very intrigued by. You know, as we know now, some of the aircraft went to the, what they call the lz, the landing zone, to, to retrieve the second airman once he was initially found. And they got stuck in the sand. But the US and as the President mentioned today, even the contingency plan, the backup plan, was, you know, remarkable in and of itself. They had aircraft ready to come in and, and undo the problem after the other ones got stuck.
- [12:24]
Ryan Nobles
But amidst all of this and the good news about the airmen being both airmen being saved, this is still a war that is raging by any measure. And Secretary Hegseth said today that it's the largest volume of strikes since the start of the war. They've already said that their air defenses have been decimated, that the nuclear program has been obliterated. What are they targeting with strikes?
- [12:48]
Gordon Lubold
And I would note that the Secretary has said that several times over the course of this conflict of several weeks like this is going to be the biggest day. And so he's saying it once again. Is there really no easy way for us to measure that other than these principals coming out and saying this? But they are continuing to go after, you know, finish these conventional targets, the Navy, the Air Force, ballistic missile sites, what are known as command and control sites, where, where top military officials operate, other headquarters buildings in the military. I think that they will continue to kind of prosecute against those targets for now to eliminate drone sites and drone manufacturing sites, which remain a problem until they get to a point where they decide to shift gears.
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Ryan Nobles
Okay, Gordon, thanks for that. Let's go now to Kier Kir. How do we expect officials in Iran will react to what we heard from President Trump today?
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Keir Simmons
Well, I think what we heard President Trump do today is try to use what was once have been called the bully pulpit of the American presidency to push the Iranians into a compromise. And President Trump is frustrated that the Iranians haven't compromised, as Steve Wyckoff said before the war, frustrated that they haven't capitulated. And actually the president set it out in that news conference very clearly. He described a particular situation. He didn't exactly say when this was when he thought there might be a deal. And then Steve Witkoff, his negotiator, his envoy, Jared Kushner, his son in law and The Vice President, J.D. vance came to him and said, I think the Iranians are breaking the deal. This is according to President Trump's account. And he said to them, to his team, if you like, okay, tell them to look out the window and in 45 minutes will have hit a major bridge. And we know, of course, that that bridge was hit. And what President Trump was describing there effectively is what he sees as his negotiating style, which is to threaten and even to take action, while at the same time trying to hold out an offer of a deal. To your question, the issue is that the Iranians want quite a number of concessions in order to agree to a deal, including, and this is an important one for them, for example, an agreement that the US And Israel will never strike them again. Effectively, what you're seeing is the United States and Israel on the one side and the Iranians on the other side both indicate that they would like an end to this war, but they would like it on their terms. It sounds familiar. It's very much the kind of thing that I've been talking about in relation to another war between Russia and Ukraine. The question here is not about whether the Two sides would like to stop fighting. They would. The question is on what terms are they prepared to stop fighting.
- [15:43]
Ryan Nobles
And obviously there's Israel, the United States, Iran's role in all of this. But there is a lot of interest for all these different Gulf states as well. And we're just over 24 hours from the President's deadline for Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz. I know you're in Saudi Arabia now. What is the mood like in these Gulf countries? Are they bracing for another major escalation or do they hold out any hope that there could be an agreement before the deadline?
- [16:10]
Keir Simmons
They are bracing. They are worried about it, no question. That, that being said, a number of the Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, have been able to be very effective in protecting themselves from these missiles and drones, albeit some have got through and the debris from interceptions has caused real damage. And it's interesting, the message that you hear from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries is actually similar to the kind of message you're hearing from President Trump. And that is this. We want the war to stop, but we don't want it to stop if what it ends up with is a weakened but angry and effectively empowered Iran. And that all goes to the question of the Strait of Hormuz and whether it can be opened up. And I think that is why it's very difficult to see how President Trump doesn't come to the conclusion that there's going to be need to be more action by the United States in order to open up the Strait of Hormuz, possibly taking islands in the strait with all of the risks that that will entail and all of the questions of boots on the ground that that will raise.
- [17:15]
Ryan Nobles
Okay, Kir Simmons in Saudi Arabia. Kir, thanks for that. Now Christine to you. And you heard Kir talk about what is it stake with the straightforward moves? It's obviously something that markets around the world are keeping a very close eye on. How do the markets react today from what we heard from President Trump?
- [17:30]
Christine Romans
Well, oil markets quite frankly rose when the President reiterated his threat about 8pm tomorrow and a four hour window in which he could decimate civilian important energy structure inside Iran. So you saw crude oil go up, it's above $112 a barrel. Diesel prices are up $5. Now look at gas above 412. And when I talk to experts, they say if you start to see oil prices continue to rise, maybe as high as $120 a barrel, you know, then you're talking about four and a half dollar gas in the U.S. so all of this is not hypothetical. There are tangible, tangible effects right now of what's happening in the Middle East. You have less oil going through the Strait of Hormuz onto global markets. You have less oil being produced and liquefied natural gas being produced in some of these prices in the Middle East. So that's just less supply, supply, demand. You know, College Economics 101. When supply goes down, demand is still relatively high. That means prices go up.
- [18:30]
Ryan Nobles
And obviously the place we're seeing it most specifically and immediately is at the gas pump, which you already outlined. But let's say Iran opened the Strait of Hormuz tomorrow by the deadline, would that be enough to bring gas prices down in the near term?
- [18:45]
Christine Romans
I think you would see in markets probably a reaction where in the futures markets you would see oil prices come down in some, in far out futures contract months. Not to get too, too wonky about how these things are priced and traded, but if you are a gas station owner or operator in the United States, you're not going to be lowering gas dramatically in the very near term.
- [19:07]
Josh Orton
Why?
- [19:07]
Christine Romans
Because there's still less oil being produced and shipped through here. There's still a backlog of weeks, if not months of getting things back up normal. It's not a switch, Ryan, as you know, it's not a switch that just goes on and off. I mean, there are long supply chain effects here. There's also diesel fuel, jet oil, jet fuel. There are all kinds of different products that haven't been moving through there like fertilizer. So the knock on effect is much, much more than what, you know, American drivers are putting into their gas tank. It's, it's really a global oil shock that we haven't seen in a generation. Some, some experts say that we've never seen and that's going to take some time, some time to get back to normal. Even if things miraculously just overnight went back to pre war conditions.
- [19:54]
Gordon Lubold
Yeah.
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Ryan Nobles
People traveling right now are seeing the sticker shock on their airline ticket as a result of this. Christine Romans, thanks as always for breaking it down for us. Coming up, what is next in the war as the president threatens to destroy virtually all of Iran if a deal isn't reached by tomorrow. Oh, a former defense secretary and a top military Expert join me next Houston, do you copy? The Artemis 2 crew makes history, officially traveling deeper into space than anyone has before. We have the latest on the mission and new images of the moon you're not going to want to miss. You're watching Meet the press. Now. The world of business is constantly evolving. And Comcast business keeps you totally in step with secure AI backed networking in more than 100 countries. They're powering over 90% of the Fortune 500 and millions of small businesses. That's a lot of muscle. And behind it all, thousands of experts answering your call at 2am like it's 2pm One partner powering how business gets done for companies around the globe. When you add it all up, no one does business like Comcast business. Hey, podcast listeners.
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- [22:30]
Leon Panetta
Well, without question, I think, as the President has said, we've, we've largely achieved a great deal of our military objectives here. There's probably still a few targets that remain, but I think overall we have in fact achieved our military objectives. The problem is that in order to get to a ceasefire, which I think is where we all need to go, you've got to deal with the straits of Hormuz. And that remains a fundamental issue that if we don't address, is obviously going to put tremendous pressure on our economy and on the American people. So the key right now is for the President to try to see if they, if we can at least work out a deal between allowing some kind of ceasefire in exchange for opening up the Straits of Hormuz. I think that is the best turnout that can happen in this sixth week of the war.
- [23:40]
Ryan Nobles
Okay, Colonel Warren, let's turn to you. We did learn quite a bit more about the details of the operation to rescue the two US Airmen in Iran. What stood out to you from what we learned today?
- [23:51]
Steve Warren
Well, two things really stood out to me. The first was that, you know, hundreds of American military members willingly put their lives in danger to find our downed aviator. And I think that really speaks to the ethos that we try to live by in the military, which is, I will never leave a fallen comrade behind. We try to live by that. The other piece of that same ethos was demonstrated by that aviator who never quit. You know, that's the other piece of our ethos. I will never quit, and he never did. He stuck in there. And I think the other thing that stood out to me were those images of the aircraft that we had to leave, you know, destroyed on the battlefield. Right, because we didn't want any of that equipment to fall into enemy hands. That's two C130s, potentially some helicopters as well. All of that, we had to abandon that there, but we didn't leave a single thing for the enemy to gain.
- [24:49]
Ryan Nobles
Secretary Panetta, I want to play for you something that the former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson said on Meet the Press yesterday about the operation to rescue that airman. Take a listen. I would encourage the President and the Secretary of Defense, consistent with operational security, share as much of that with the American public so that the American public can appreciate what goes into this kind of operational Was more complicated than the bin Laden operation, for example. Wow.
- [25:15]
Keir Simmons
I'm not sure any of that.
- [25:16]
Mariana Sotomayor
Something.
- [25:17]
Ryan Nobles
I'm not sure any of that justifies a $1.5 trillion budget request. But still, this was. This was remarkable. And I think Americans deserve to see a lot more about it. Mr. Secretary, you were in the room during the bin Laden raid. Do you agree with his assessment? Was this operation more complicated than the operation that killed bin Laden?
- [25:39]
Leon Panetta
Well, you know, not. Not being there. I. You know, it's hard for me to make a judgment one way or the other. I can tell you this. The bin Laden operation was a complicated operation that required intelligence people and Special Forces working together. Clearly, this operation was equally well planned. It involved intelligence sources, the CIA, it involves Special Forces being able to go in and conduct this operation. It was an outstanding operation. I give them a hell of a lot of credit. I have tremendous confidence in the ability of our military, military to do these kinds of things. And I would hope that the President would kind of use this as a way to try to determine what is the best path now to bringing this war to an end. That really is the key point in the sixth week of the war that I think everybody would like to have.
- [26:43]
Ryan Nobles
And Colonel Warren, we've talked a lot. The President's talked a lot about all these military successes. He's even described Iran as being decapitated, but yet they were still able to shoot down a US Fighter jet from what we learned from today was just a, a shoulder fired missile. What does this tell you about Iran's military capabilities, even if it's as downgraded as the Trump administration is suggesting? All right.
- [27:06]
Steve Warren
The military capabilities of Iran are significantly downgraded. I believe the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the commander of Central Command when they say that, I do believe them. But we have to understand that downgraded does not mean eliminated. We have to understand that. But you know, air superiority does not mean we are invulnerable. There are still weapons systems out there on the battlefield. The skies that we fly in today, while we have control of those skies, they are not the friendly skies. We cannot fly with absolute impunity. And that's something we have to keep in mind. Wars are dangerous and this is a war.
- [27:47]
Ryan Nobles
And is that part of the problem, Colonel, in terms of trying to bring this to an end, that even if you have that superiority and you have the advantage militarily, it's very difficult for these things to come to an end in a neat and tidy way?
- [28:02]
Steve Warren
Well, war is never neat and war is never tidy. And my old boss, Secretary Panetta, understands the strategic level of this better than anyone. But what I will tell you is, in my experience, in order to get both sides at the table negotiating in good faith, one side or the other has to have had enough. One side has to say uncle.
- [28:24]
Ryan Nobles
And to that point, Mr. Secretary, the President is now suggesting, in an effort, I guess, to make Iran say uncle, that he's willing to go after civilian energy and infrastructure and potentially its bridges. Do you believe that that strike would be lawful and would it be crossing a red line that the US Military should not cross?
- [28:46]
Leon Panetta
Well, obviously it raises a lot of questions with regards to whether or not, you know it, it's legal or illegal. But I think the bigger question, very frankly is what's going to be the payoff here. Let's assume he goes ahead and does the kind of destruction he's talking about. The one thing he can't eliminate is the ability of Iran to, to keep the Straits of Hormuz closed. And what's going to happen as a result of those attacks is that the price of oil is going to continue to escalate and it's the American people who are going to have to pay that price at the pump. So in some ways, you know, there aren't any winners here. Both sides are going to lose a little bit.
- [29:37]
Ryan Nobles
And Colonel Warren, what type of retribution could come from Iran if the US Were to take that sort of strike or take that sort of action?
- [29:47]
Steve Warren
Well, we know, as we just discussed, that Iran still has capabilities. They still retain offensive capabilities. So I think you can expect to see strikes against civilian infrastructure in the Gulf region. For example, the desalinization plants in many of the Gulf nations, additional strikes on their critical oil and natural gas infrastructure. So we can see again, an escalation will bring an escalation. So as we escalate, I think we can expect the Iranians to do the same.
- [30:20]
Ryan Nobles
Okay, great conversation. Secretary Panetta, Colonel Warren, thank you both for your time and expertise. We appreciate it. Coming up, we are digging deeper into the President's trumped up rhetoric on the war with Iran, the escalating fallout, and what it all means for the path to the midterms. Our panel's next on Meet the Press. Now. Pandora makes it easy for you to find your favorite music. Discover new artists and genres by selecting any song or album, and we'll make you a personalized station for free download
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Ryan Nobles
If you're into the weird, the wild,
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Dan Cummins
and the downright bizarre, check out my podcast, Time Suck. Each week I dive into shocking stories like the rise of the Nexium cult, the origins of conspiracies like QAnon, and the San Francisco witch killer murders. With deep dives and dark humor, Time Suck brings you the stories that'll fascinate you, make you laugh, and fill your head with lots of strange facts. New episodes drop every Monday. Join the cult of the curious. Follow Time Suck wherever you get your podcasts.
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- [31:47]
Mariana Sotomayor
loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank.
- [31:49]
Julie Sorkin
On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans an amount subject to lender approval.
- [31:54]
Donald Trump
Language in that social post only to make my point. I think you've heard it before.
- [32:01]
Ryan Nobles
Welcome back. As we showed you before, that was President Trump this morning brushing off questions about his profanity lay social media post that he made on Easter Sunday telling Iran to open the effing straight, you crazy bastards, as he threatened to strike civilian infrastructure in the country. Joining me now is our panel. Mariana Sotomayor, the congressional reporter at the Washington Post, Josh Orton, a former senior advisor to Vice President Harris and the current president of Demand justice. And Danielle Pletka, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Marianna, you know the president, I don't know how many times I've started a panel with this question, but has shattered a lot of norms. But even this one, especially to read it on an Easter Sunday morning, came as a shock to the system. For those of us that read these from him on a regular basis. I mean, should we be surprised by this anymore? And could this maybe cross the line?
- [32:51]
Mariana Sotomayor
I mean, it was shocking. It was one of those messages that I had to read twice to be like, is this really happening? Especially as I saw other messages, Easter messages coming in from congressional leaders, which were much more, say, much, much more tame, you know, should it be surprising? I mean, I think what we need to look into and understand is, is how legitimate is this threat? Is he really going to go as far as to reign hell all over Iran? Is he going to just obliterate, as he's been saying, this nation, because as many people have been pointing out, that could amount to war crimes. We obviously have not gotten there yet. But if he really, he's been teasing this, you know, decision that has to be made by 8pm and even today during his press conference, he mentioned the fact that he won't say whether he is for this peace plan, but he might be for a peace plan if it's good for him. And Iran opens the Strait of Hormuz. So he hasn't really indicated exactly what's going to happen by tomorrow night, but we're just gonna have to wait and watch, which is another thing that we're used to with Trump. We kind of have to wait and see what he decides.
- [34:02]
Ryan Nobles
And the inconsistency of it all, I think is part of why so many people are still asking so many questions about this. But Danny, I Want to go to you on this, and I want to read for you what former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had to say about this. She's obviously been very critical of the president. She's had a falling out with him. But I think she still has kind of a relevant voice in all of this because she is connected to the MAGA move. She understands the MAGA movement, and this is what she said. I know all of you and him, all of you. She's talking about his supporters and the MAGA wing of the party, and he's gone insane. And all of you are complicit. She's also talking about the people working for him. Trump threatening to bomb power plants and bridges hurts the Iranian people, the very people Trump claimed he was freeing. This is not what we promised the American people when they overwhelmingly voted in 2024. I know their. I know this. I was there more than most. This is not making America great again. She goes on to say, this is evil. Trump said earlier today, MAGA still loves me. Is he right? Is there even something like this? Not enough to try and have some of that support erode, particularly that wing of the party that was very much opposed to foreign intervention.
- [35:12]
Josh Orton
I'm very impressed that Marjorie Taylor Greene has become such an object of admiring quotes reports in American media. That wasn't always the case, but I guess she's figured out what is necessary to get into the good graces of some people.
- [35:29]
Ryan Nobles
Are you suggesting that it's not. You're suggesting we shouldn't bring that up?
- [35:33]
Josh Orton
I am suggesting that she is.
- [35:34]
Ryan Nobles
Just because she. So you're saying the only reason I'm talking about.
- [35:37]
Josh Orton
I'm suggesting she's a loathsome anti Semitic pos. That's what I'm suggesting. A horrible human being who we all recognized was a horrible human being. A hater. A hater who Donald Trump never should have supported. And now that she's turned on him, suddenly appealing, and the answer is no. Marjorie Taylor Greene is always a loathsome scumbag.
- [35:58]
Ryan Nobles
But do you think she has the pulse of the base in any way, shape or form?
- [36:00]
Josh Orton
I do not think she has the pulse of the base. I think she has the pulse of Marjorie Taylor Greene and she does what's good for her. But on the question, on the broader question, polling tells us I don't have the pulse of the MAGA movement, such as it is. But I do believe the polling that I see. The polling suggests that the president not only has a higher rate of support on the Iran war with self identified MAGA voters than he does with even Republicans, but it's still up 80, 90%. I think that's pretty solid. So I think Marjorie is talking out of the same mouth that told us that Jewish space lasers were important.
- [36:37]
Danielle Pletka
Okay, Josh, She's a. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a loathsome person for all the reasons you mentioned and is correct about this. Right. Donald Trump is at the lowest nadir of his presidency in terms of popularity. He is about at the same place that Joe Biden was right after his politically fatal debate performance. Right. Donald Trump has no idea what's going to happen next in the Iran war. And what he did with this tweet on Sunday is actually classic. This is actually vintage Donald Trump from the 2016, 27, 2018. He doesn't have control of the narrative. The war is unpopular. They didn't even bother to give us a narrative ahead of time, Wrong or right like they did with the Iraq war. He's now threatening war crimes. He's replaced Ayatollah Khomeini with Ayatollah Khomeini. He bombed their nuclear program last year to take it out. And now we are going to war to take out their nuclear program. The American people are facing sky high gas prices and a midterm election for Republicans that is looking dimmer and dimmer by the second. And so I think what Donald Trump is doing with this tweet is what Donald Trump always does when his back's against the wall and he wants to retake control of the narrative. Now, he may have the pulse of the MAGA wing of the party if he just has the base of the mag, the MAGA base of the party. Come November, it is going to be a landslide for Democrats. And I would sort of, I hate to give advice to Republicans, but I would issue a warning here. Donald Trump does not care if you win or lose. Donald Trump cares about his own legacy. He cares about being in charge. He cares about being loved. He does not care how Republicans do in the midterm. And the longer the congressional Republicans cling to this war and his decisions, the worse it's going to be for them.
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Ryan Nobles
So they're not here this week, Marianna. They don't have to answer questions about this tweet, which we will all be chasing them down to talk about. They're probably pleased that they don't have to deal with that. But at some point, this is going to have to be an issue like Josh talks about, where members of Congress are going to have to weigh in and take A stand one way or the other, particularly now that the president's budget request is in and that there's a potential reconciliation package that could include, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe billions of dollars in terms of support for this war and a supplemental. Where is the Republican Party in Congress on this?
- [38:48]
Mariana Sotomayor
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I've been texting some Republican lawmakers and hoping they would text back, call back, all of a sudden, whatever. They don't want to answer. They don't want to talk about this right now. They're probably enjoying their Easter holidays. But it is going to get complicated for them because they will have to vote and make known how they feel about this war. There are already questions about that 200 billion supplemental. Could they eventually have to vote on even more money because they don't know how long this is going to last. Lawmakers are very upset with the administration not being as forthcoming, not really knowing what the end goal is. They are looking at the mixed messages from Trump in the same way that we are observing them. What is it going to be? What is it not? I think one thing to note in terms of priority for this administration is they obviously sent over this budget that is more significant than not because appropriators tend to appropriate the way that they do. But that is they. The White House has requested $1.5 trillion in defense. That is a significantly large number. Also 73 billion in cuts to domestic spending. Where are voters right now? They are screaming. They have been screaming about the economy. They want to see more investment in their day to day life or at least just a normal regular life. Not have to worry, worry about politics and the fact that even Trump last week said, you know, the federal government can't take care of Medicare, Medicaid. Well, we've known for a very long time that those social issues are front of mind for voters. So he's making very clear. Americans should be prioritizing this war.
- [40:18]
Ryan Nobles
Let's play that. Let's play what the president had to say about that in social programs last week.
- [40:23]
Donald Trump
We can't take care of daycare. We're a big country. We have 50 states. We have all these other people we're fighting wars with. We can't take care of daycare. It's not possible for us to take care of daycare. Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things. They can do it on a state basis. You can't do it on a federal. We have to take care of one thing, military protection. We have to guard the country.
- [40:46]
Ryan Nobles
Worth noting, the White House did not want this video to get out. They accidentally posted it, but now the cat's out of the bag. So, Danny, to Josh's point, is this the type of midterm message that you'd want if you were a Republican running in the fall?
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Josh Orton
No, but look, I think. I think you characterize the president fairly. Fairly, which is that he's not always a team player. And B, he's really not out there. Just look at the Texas race. Look at John Cornyn.
- [41:12]
Donald Trump
Right.
- [41:13]
Josh Orton
President should have endorsed John Cornyn. The President should still endorse John Cornyn. John Cornyn will win that election. His competitor will not. This is the kind of game that Donald Trump played in 2016. He played it again in 2020. The president has many good qualities, let's say, but these are not among them. And I think that's going to be very difficult. And I think as far as Congress is concerned, you know, look, I wish I could say that Congress had its own interests at heart, but even there, what we've seen. And this is not a. This is not a new phenomenon. I say it every time I'm on the show. I really do. Congress doesn't do its job anymore. And if Congress did its job, whether it was standing up to or acquiescing and what the President wanted, then perhaps it would set himself up for some respect in the midterms.
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Ryan Nobles
Yeah. And, Josh, finally, what role do Democrats play in all of this? Can they continue just to be the party of.
- [42:02]
Tom Costello
No.
- [42:02]
Ryan Nobles
Do they have to offer some sort of an alternative message? Where does this land as we head into the midterms?
- [42:07]
Danielle Pletka
Yeah, that's vitally important, Ryan. And look, I think the old adage of when your enemy shooting themselves in the foot, sort of point, but I don't think Democrats can rest there. I think Trump is gonna, towards the end of his second term, sort of do his own thing to implode the coalition that he built within the Republican Party. But Democrats have to actually pose something that the consumers in this country, the people of this country, the workers in this country, will hear and know they're addressing their problems. What is your plan for childcare? What is your plan for health care? What is your plan to lower prices? It's not going to be just enough to oppose Trump. That being said, you can point for now.
- [42:48]
Ryan Nobles
Mariana, Josh, Danielle, thank you guys all for being. We appreciate it. Welcome back. Turning now to space, you're looking at live pictures aboard the Artemis II spacecraft. It's something you don't see every day. Part of the far side of the Moon. The astronauts right now are circling the moon after making history this afternoon, traveling further from planet Earth than any human ever. Crew member Jeremy Hansen, marking the moment on behalf of his fellow astronauts on board. Take a listen.
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Donald Trump
As we surpass the furthest distance humans have ever traveled from planet Earth. We do so in honoring the extraordinary efforts and feats of our predecessors in human space exploration. We will continue our journey even further into space before Mother Earth succeeded and
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Ryan Nobles
pulling us back to everything that we hold dear.
- [43:50]
Donald Trump
But we most importantly, choose this moment to challenge this generation and the next to make sure this record is not long lived.
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Ryan Nobles
And the crew of Artemis is set to go even further this evening as they continue their lunar flyby. NBC's Tom Costello has more from Mission Control in Houston.
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Tom Costello
So, Ryan, they are right now well into this flyby or flyover on the far side of the moon, about 4 to 6,000 miles above the surface. And that is giving them a view of the moon that no human has ever had before. The totality of the moon, pole to pole on the far side of the moon. Here's what's interesting. You know, for centuries, thousands of years, people thought it was the dark side of the moon. The astronauts have been radioing back, it's actually quite bright, bright on the far side of the moon. Their job is to document, photograph as much as they can and then describe it in human terms. And not only is all of that going to matter in terms of the photography with high resolution, 40 to 80 millimeter zoom lenses, but just the descriptions that we're getting back. We've heard Christina talking about the lunar surface almost looks like it is so bright in places. It almost looks like a lampshade with pinholes in it. We've heard Victor say it's so bright, he has a hard time, his eyes adjusting when he looks away from the window and into the cabin. Incredibly bright, he says. And then they're describing the terrain. They're describing the what, what looks almost like ancient, ancient rivers or lava fields on the moon. The bottom line is that this is going exceptionally well now. They've already broken a major record today. They have flown farther than any humans ever, beating the Apollo 13 record that was set back in 1971. 70, pardon me, by about 4,100 miles. So they are now already in the record books. And this is going to go on for a while. They're going to lose comms, a temporary loss of signal that's planned. It's going to happen in the 6:30 to 7:15 period of time. That's normal. Nobody's worried about it. They'll come out on the other side of the moon and they'll keep going. But this is already proving to be a record setter. One last note here and that is that as they have looked down on the moon, a very poignant emotional moment for anybody watching, they identified two craters that they wanted to name. One of them. They're naming Integrity after their ship and the other one they want to name after Commander Reed Weissman's wife Carol, who passed away just a few years ago, leaving him with two daughters. They want to call that crater Carol's Crater. And everybody on board that ship was broken up. You could see them crying and hugging as they talked about Carol's crater. Mission control simply acknowledged it. Integrity Crater and Carol Crater. It is a very fascinating journey. Ryan, back to you.
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Ryan Nobles
Okay, Tom, thank you for that. Still to come, President Trump lashing out at Naito again as the head of the alliance prepares is to visit the White House this week. A former ambassador to NATO joins us next. You're watching MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Amid increasing tensions between the US and its NATO allies over the war in Iran, NATO's secretary general is scheduled to meet with President Trump on Wednesday. The president repeatedly voiced his anger with NATO countries for their lack of support, support for the war and for not stepping in to help open the Strait of Hormuz. This afternoon, the president lashed out at NATO once again. Take a listen.
- [47:33]
Donald Trump
I'm very disappointed in NATO.
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Keir Simmons
Very.
- [47:35]
Donald Trump
I think that NATO, I think it's a mark on NATO that will never disappear. Never disappear in my mind. You know, they're coming to see me on Wednesday. They're going to say, oh, we'll do this, we'll do that. Now they all of a sudden want to send things.
- [47:48]
Ryan Nobles
You know, last week the president claimed several times that the US Might leave NATO after the Iran war and told Europe allies it was up to them to take back the straight up Hormuz and get their own oil. Joining me now is Ivo dodler, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO. What did you make of what you heard from the president today?
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Ivo Daalder
You know, frankly, nothing surprising. He's been saying this about NATO for the better part of 25 years. He's never seen the value of NATO. He called it obsolete when he first came to office in 2017. And he's always believed that the burdens of NATO are bigger than the benefits. He's wrong about that. He's always been wrong about that. But it's not particularly surprising. You were earlier talking about the defense budget. He's asking for another sort of $500 billion in defense spending. Well, that's what you would need each year if you wanted to get rid of your alliances. We could not be fighting this war today without NATO. We couldn't fight it without the access to the air bases and refueling stations and all of the other capabilities, capabilities that the United States has built up over the last 80 years as part of the NATO alliance. So the president does this all the time. He just needs to be better informed. NATO is critical to American security. It's even critical to this operation. And he's angry at the fact that the allies are not willing to help on a war in which they were not consulted about, which they think is both unnecessary and illegal, and frankly, is not working out too well for the United States. And they're not going to help him solve that problem for him.
- [49:23]
Ryan Nobles
And he obviously can't get out of NATO all by himself. He'd need an act of Congress to do so. But does it raise a level of doubt amongst these NATO member nations about the willingness for the United States to be a part of this alliance? Do they view it as a pressure tactic, or does it fray that very sacred bond that these countries have had for all of these years and it. Could it leave parts of the world vulnerable as a result?
- [49:49]
Ivo Daalder
Yeah, this is no longer about leverage in a negotiation. You could argue that the president, who wanted European countries to spend more on defense, used it in this first term and in the beginning, even of a second term, the strong language that he needed in order to get the Europeans to do more on defence, which, by the way, they should do and they should have been doing for a very long time. They're now doing it because of the second problem that you mentioned. They're increasing defense spending, not only because they are worried about Russia and the threat that they pose, that Russia poses to their security, but frankly, they're worried about the United States. They don't believe the United States is a reliable ally anymore. They don't believe that they can count on the United States, certainly not as long as Donald Trump is president, to come to their aid. After all, this is not only a president who is repeatedly called into question his commitment to NATO in a variety of different ways, but in fact, a few months ago threatened to use force against NATO by taking Greenland, which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, which of course, is a NATO member. So the last three months have really sort of brought home to many Europeans that The president's distrust and dislike of NATO now may well have strategic consequences. And as you say, a division between the United States and Europe is something that first, the Soviet Union and Russia have been wanting to see for the better part of 80 years. They now have it, and they may one day come and test it.
- [51:21]
Ryan Nobles
Now, the president mentioned that the secretary general will be here in Washington to meet with him. And Mark Ruda, he's been nicknamed the Trump whisperer before. He's obviously a very charming, charming man, and Trump does seem to like him. Can he salvage the relationship with this visit? Will that relationship alone be enough to try and protect this relationship?
- [51:44]
Ivo Daalder
You know, Rich is the Trump whispers among all Trump whispers. And I imagine that the meeting is going to be a good and positive one. What Mark Richard can't do on his own is to erase the 15 months or so now of serious doubts that have been created in the European minds about America's willingness to come to the defense of Europe. And this latest problem that we're facing with regard to Iran, where the differences really are stark and significant and where European countries really, for the first time in this kind of way has, has said, we cannot possibly be part of a military strike that we regard as contrary to international law. This is a big deal, and the president is making a big deal of it. I just don't think that a meeting, even among someone who is as charming as Mark Ritza is going to be, is going to be enough to convince Donald Trump to say, oh, you know what? I was wrong about NATO. I've been wrong about NATO for the last 25 years, and therefore, it's time for me to change course. I don't see that happening.
- [52:53]
Ryan Nobles
Okay. Ambassador Ivar Dodler, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it. We'll be back tomorrow with more MEET THE PRESS now. But there's always more news ahead on NBC News now. Thanks so much for watching. Have a great day. Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts,