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Meet the Press
Meet the Press NOW — July 17
00:49:49
President Donald Trump doubles down on election fraud claims four months ahead of the midterm elections. Election Assistance Commission Chair, Thomas Hicks, who was ousted by Trump reacts to the president’s claims. U.S. targets key infrastructure around Iran’s main port for the seventh consecutive day of strikes. Maine U.S. Senate candidate Nirav Shah (D) joins Meet the Press NOW to discuss his bid to replace Platner in a “rocket primary”.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:42]
Melanie Zanona
Welcome to Meet the Press. Now I'm Melanie Zenona in Washington, where the Trump administration is now threatening state election officials as President Trump ratchets up his attacks on US elections ahead of the midterms, sowing doubts about his 2020 defeat and warning that the current election system remains vulnerable to fraud. In a roughly 25 minute primetime address from the White House last night, the President deemed the US Election system unsecure and untrustworthy, despite long standing and bipartisan agreement from state, local and federal officials that elections in America are safe and free and fair. In his address, the President announced the declassification of intelligence that he claims supports his allegations.
- [02:27]
Donald Trump
Every American deserves to know that when they cast their vote, that vote will be counted accurately in a system. And that is to make that system secure, one where cheating and interference are not just difficult but virtually impossible. Unfortunately, the system we have today falls catastrophically short of that standard. Tonight I'm announcing the immediate declassification and release of critical intelligence, revealing shocking vulnerabilities in our election infrastructure. This evidence shows that the election system we have dangerously exposes and really exposes like levels never thought possible to hacking, exploitation and foreign interference.
- [03:18]
Melanie Zanona
It's important to note here that many of the allegations laid out by the president are not supported or verifiable from the newly released documents, which are heavily redacted. And in some cases, the documents actually contradict the president's claims or raise issues already widely known to election officials. The president accused China specifically of meddling in the 2020 election and alleged that members of his own administration conspired against him to cover it up.
- [03:46]
Donald Trump
US Spy agencies began learning about the compromise of voter registration files in 2020 when they discovered that tens of millions of voter data. Think of that. Tens of millions of voters data in 18 states have been bought, stolen or hacked by China. Yet those responsible for sounding the alarm instead kept the information secret and hidden. They did not disclose to me as president or to anyone else, and to the best of our knowledge, they did not inform Congress. In fact, all they kept saying is this is the most secure election in the history of our country. A standard, very pat line that was divvied out to say the president is
- [04:36]
Melanie Zanona
now instructing the Justice Department, the CIA and the Director of National Intelligence to investigate what he says is the concealment of China's meddling. Mr. Trump also Using last night's address to once again urge Congress to pass the election security bill known as the Save America act, which, as we've pointed out multiple times, faces bipartisan pushback in
- [04:56]
Donald Trump
the Senate addressing this crisis of election security, demands that Congress must pass the Save America. How easy is that to do? Unless you want to cheat. The only reason you wouldn't do it is you want to cheat because your policies are so bad and your candidates are so pathetic that you can't get away or can't get elected any other way.
- [05:27]
Melanie Zanona
After the president last night claims 278,000 non citizens were found on voter rolls. Today, Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen threatens states with penalties if they don't comply with the administration's demands for a review of the nation's election system. He also issued this threat to former U.S. officials who called the 2020 elections secure.
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Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas
Everybody that purposely misled the American people, abused their power and their authority and decided not to continue doing their job will be held accountable. What does that accountability look like? I don't know. Is it criminal? We'll pursue criminal charges. If it is not criminal. We'll make sure you never work for the federal government again and you never have the ability to have a clearance again.
- [06:14]
Melanie Zanona
NBC News senior reporter Jane Timm, who covers election administration and policy, joins me now along with NBC News national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter, NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, and NBC News senior national political reporter Sahil Kapoor. A lot to dive in here, Tom, I want to start with you. Let's start with were there any sort of major revelations in the declassified documents that were released last night?
- [06:44]
Tom Winter
I think there were some interesting things in there, an awful lot of things that we had previously seen before in various releases of documents, indictments or notices from Treasury. I think one of the things that comes across just the scale in school scope of voter registration information that according to these documents, which comes from the United States intelligence community, but we don't even know what agency, because even that was redacted because it was quote, sensitive agency. Just the size and scope of the information that China has upwards of perhaps 200 million individuals in the United States that they may have some basic information on that. They had been able to get that from 18 states. They were only able to identify a handful of those states. And so it's just interesting how much of that data that they actually have. We should note there's an asterisk to that, which is you can buy right now and go on Georgia's secretary of state website and purchase their voter registration information. You gather a lot of it through public records requests. It's information that we look at in the news media to be able to determine if, if there are any voter registrations that we should look at for any potential fraud, limited as it might be in different places at different times. But in the intelligence community, there's a bit of a concern as far as what is China doing with all that information and as now start to involve AI in the intelligence communities and they're certainly using it, the US Is as well. Do you start to come up with all sorts of historical and background information that can be helpful for spying in the future? That's something that we'll watch that goes far beyond the issues discussed by the president last night.
- [08:18]
Melanie Zanona
Yes, some really important points you laid out there, Jane. Give us a little fact check here. The president accused China of meddling, but is there any evidence that China actually tampered with votes in the United States?
- [08:33]
Jane Timm
We know that foreign adversaries have interfered, tried to influence our elections, but we also know they have not intervened. They have not changed the ballots, they have not changed the results. They have not stolen any elections, despite the fact that President Trump sort of cast allusions to that. You know, we're not going to have a stolen election again. He said at one point we have absolutely no evidence of any changed votes or election infrastructure that has has been sort of targeted or gone after in that way.
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Melanie Zanona
And Tom, the President also accused Venezuela of trying to rig the 2020 election. Do any of the documents released last night back up that allegation?
- [09:15]
Tom Winter
Well, some of the documents and some of the things that have come up before as it pertains to Venezuela have to do with some allegations of what Venezuela might have been trying to do in its own elections. But there does not appear to be any evidence that was offered in the documents last night that they were trying to actually change or were able to change any votes here in the United States. Just a note on that as well. Look, there are definitely electronic machines that are used here in the United States to record and tabulate the votes, but we also have a paper backup system in most locations and in most states in this country. So you have the ability to check if there was ever a concern the paper ballot versus what the machine is telling you to provide some sort of a comparison. So there does not appear to be anything that is indicated in the documents, at least that I've been able to find so far that shows Venezuela actually trying trying to change votes here in the United States.
- [10:07]
Melanie Zanona
Tom, the president also alleged voter fraud in Michigan during his address last night. What is he claiming here and is there any evidence of it?
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Tom Winter
Well, that's an interesting question. So there was an FBI investigation that kicked off after the Michigan State Police in 2020 and 2021 went to the FBI and said, hey, look, we've got some information from Muskegon, Michigan, where there's an indication from the clerk that some of the names on their voter registration forms that were submitted to them either don't appear to be real. There's no address that backs them up. The information is wrong. And do you guys want to take a look at this? There was a preliminary investigation where they used public records tools, some of the tools, frankly, we use, to see if the information on the forms was backed up in reality by certain individuals. At other points, there was more of an investigative step that was taken. This took approximately five years. According to the Michigan State Police, in a statement that they've provided to some news outlets, they were ultimately able to determine, and apparently according to the clerk as well, that none of those voter registration forms actually led to anybody being added to the voter rolls or any ballots being disseminated to individuals that didn't, that did not exist. According to the FBI records of interviews, it appears that there was a group that was canvassing for Voters and that some of those canvassers may have been rewarded financially or in other means to be able to submit a certain amount of names. And they may have put information down. May have, again, this investigation is not complete. May have put information down in order just to hit their quotas, not necessarily trying to register people in an effort to impact the election. They are gonna take a second look at this. We'll continue to track it.
- [11:49]
Melanie Zanona
Jane, picking up on that, I mentioned at the top of the show that the president said the DHS found at least 278,000 noncitizens who are registered to vote in federal elections. But in reality, how common is non citizens actually voting?
- [12:06]
Jane Timm
Noncitizen voting is incredibly uncommon. It's a very serious crime, punishable in many cases by deportation. And it's a crime that leaves a paper trail by default. You would have a record of this occurring if there is a non citizen who is voting. We do know that occasionally noncitizens show up on the voter rolls either because of clerical error or because someone checked up the wrong box on, say, a driver's licen application, where in many states do voter registration at the DMV in that way. So we know that they occasionally show up on the voter rolls, but it's not a source of voter fraud. It's very rare that you see noncitizens voting. And the data that the president, his administration put out in support of this suggests that they combed through some public voter rolls to try and find evidence of fraud. But we know that public voter rolls do not have enough information to give you determinations of whether or not someone's a non citizen or not.
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Melanie Zanona
Yes, such an important distinction here, Jane. The DHS secretary also said his department would scrub through the voter rolls looking for those non citizens. Just how feasible is that? I mean, I think it sounds like
- [13:19]
Jane Timm
they're going to continue doing the work that they did to come up with these big, huge, broad numbers. They can then refer those to election officials and say, please look into these. And election officials want to have updated rolls. They do list maintenance routinely throughout the year, trying sure that they have the most accurate voter rolls possible. They use all kinds of databases to make sure that they have accurate voter rolls as well. So, you know, they may find a handful of non citizens on the voter rolls. But typically when you have really big numbers like this, what you're getting is lists of newly naturalized citizens where government database might have flagged them as, say, having a green card previously. And therefore they get flagged as a non citizen in a search like this when it's really broad and not as specific as necessary.
- [14:05]
Melanie Zanona
Jane and Tim, thank you so much for those really, really helpful and important breakdowns. I do want to go now to the White House with Monica Alba. Oh, she's actually in New York. Excuse me, where the president also is this weekend. Monica, does the Trump administration, do they really see last night's speech as a success or is there any concern about how this may have played out?
- [14:28]
Monica Alba
I think just based on the barometer, Mel, of whether the fact that the president did deliver this speech he would view as a success because this is something that he has been fixated on for years, this election that he lost in 2020 and has talked about many different times coming forward and promising that there was this potential evidence that he was going to release. Of course, in the discussion that you just had, it's very clear that some of that information that now has been declassified does not back up some of his more dubious claim. But the fact that he came out and gave this speech overall for the White House and for this administration is viewed in their eyes as a victory because now they can argue that they are putting more of a whole of government approach and different resources of the federal government behind what they say are these vulnerabilities in the election system. Even though at the same time it's really important to point out, Mel, this is an administration that is also dismantling some of the agencies and war that is supposed to be going toward bolstering these elections, like the Election Assistance Commission, for instance. So it is also raising all sorts of questions about exactly where they are putting their focus here.
- [15:38]
Melanie Zanona
And last night, the president also demanded an investigation into the 2020 election. As a reminder, Trump was president in 2020. So who does President Trump want to be investigated? Members of his first administration.
- [15:50]
Monica Alba
And one of those people that of course, we are asking questions about would be his then director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, who is now his director of the CIA. And notably, there were many different members of the president's cabinet in attendance for this speech last night that were visible. We did not see Director Ratcliffe. That doesn't mean that he wasn't there or perhaps in a slightly more behind the scenes role. But he wasn't in those first few rows where you did see people like the vice president, the DHS secretary and the FBI director and beyond. So that stood out to us. But it is unclear who exactly here could be charged or who the president wants to look into, even though he did say he wanted to do so last night.
- [16:34]
Melanie Zanona
And Secretary of State Marco Rubio is set to meet with his Chinese counterparts this weekend ahead of a possible Trump Xi summit in September. Did the allegations made by the president threaten to overshadow US China relations?
- [16:46]
Monica Alba
They certainly could. And it was a bit of a surprise that today White House press Secretary Caroline Levitt confirmed to NBC that that state visit, that major event expected for late September, is still on. That's on track to happen. And it's possible, Mel, remember that the two leaders just met in China this summer, that they could see each other a couple of times this year. There will also be another major summit in China later in the year. And if President xi attends the G20 that is hosted in Florida this year at one of the president's own properties. So the two could be meeting several times in the coming months if those plans stay intact. Mel?
- [17:24]
Melanie Zanona
Yeah, those meetings just got a whole lot more interesting. Monica Alba, thank you. I want to turn now to Sahil Kapoor, who's with me on set, to get some Capitol Hill perspective. As we've mentioned, Trump once again made the case for the Save America Act. It has had a lot of pushback in the Senate. Do you think, though, that last night's speech did anything to move the needle?
- [17:43]
Sahil Kapoor
Short answer, no. There is nothing we saw in the speech and there's nothing we heard in the reaction following it that moves the needle. The Save act remains stalled in the US Senate and currently has no path to passage. Now, the situation is the Save America act, multiple versions of it in fact, have passed the House of Representatives. It has gone to the Senate, where the last vote occurred last month. It failed 48 to 50, losing four Republicans, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Thom Tillis and Mitch McConnell. It has a plausible path to getting a simple majority vote in the Senate, but it has no path around the 60 vote threshold, the filibuster. That is because many Senate Republicans, more than these four, want to preserve the filibuster. And this is a fundamental disconnect between President Trump and these Senate Republicans. He's arguing that this is an existential danger to the country, that election systems are fundamentally insecure and that election gets stolen. Most Senate Republicans know that's a lie. Yes, they're happy to tighten up the rules. They're happy to impose voter ID requirements, which are popular in the country, but they're not willing to do away with an important and longstanding Senate rule that they believe protects conservatives in the long haul. So as things stand, there's still no path to passage for the Save America Act.
- [18:51]
Melanie Zanona
And does the Save America act actually do anything to address some of the concerns that Trump raised last night specifically about foreign adversaries, not in terms of
- [18:58]
Sahil Kapoor
foreign interference and not in terms of tampering. That's the other irony of it. The components of the Save act deal with the domestic front. There's voter ID to cast a ballot, proof of citizenship, to register to vote. It does empower DHS to do more, to flag vote voter in the role that they believe are there unlawfully and to have them removed. But no, it doesn't do anything about tampering, which is part of the evidence, you see, of the president trying to throw everything he can at the wall to get the votes that he doesn't have.
- [19:25]
Melanie Zanona
No doubt. Sahil Kapoor, thank you. Joining me now is Thomas Hicks, who served on the U.S. election Assistance Commission and served as its chair until he was ousted by President Trump recently. Sir, thank you so much for joining us. I want to start with what was your reaction to the president's speech last night?
- [19:44]
Thomas Hicks
Well, there was no real reaction to it because we've heard a lot of these things before. I say the same thing over and over again. The 2020 election went well. The election officials who implemented those rules at that time did their job and the correct winner won. President Trump won in 2016 and President Trump won in 2024. Let's move forward. We've asked my colleagues and I went up to the Hill less than two months ago to ask for additional funding to fund elections. Elections are woefully underfunded. We would like to have new machines put in place for the 2028 election and the 2030 election. That's going to cost a significant amount of money. We're talking billions of dollars. So we would like to see this move forward. I'm no longer at the Election Assistance Commission, but I am still a voter. And I believe that having my vote count and have my vote counted accurately is the best thing that can move forward. I trust the election officials who are administrating our elections, and I hope that they can continue doing so.
- [20:52]
Melanie Zanona
Talk to me more about the work of the Election Assistance Commission in ensuring voting machines actually work, because that's something that President Trump questioned last night.
- [21:02]
Thomas Hicks
So we had four basic fundamental things. Under the Help America vote Act of 2002, which was signed by President President Bush and passed overwhelmingly in a bipartisan manner, 357 members of the House and 92 members of the Senate voted for that piece of legislation. The election Assistance Commission has two laboratories, one in Colorado and one in Alabama, that does the testing and certification of those equip of the equipment. And I want to be perfectly clear, it's the voluntary voting system guidelines, meaning that it's voluntary for states to take, take this, to take those guidelines. Those are very rigorous tests that are done and those machines function well. And so I, I disagree with the President that these machines are not running accurately. But I will agree with one, with one of your guests just said if you disagree with those results from the machines, there's a paper backup that can be verified in a hand count later on. So 98% of the country has paper backups. And we're only looking towards Louisiana to, to update their systems. And it's not because they don't want to. It's because they don't have the money to do so in a bipartisan way. I and one of my former commissioners went down to Louisiana to testify a few years ago on ways that they could get new voting equipment. And I hope that someday they can to get voting equipment that has a paper trail to it to basically alleviate this thought that the machines are not functioning well.
- [22:35]
Melanie Zanona
President Trump also claimed last night that China meddled in the 2020 election. Did you see any evidence of that while you were on the eac?
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Thomas Hicks
I, we are not an intelligence organization, and so I did not see any of that. But I would hope that the President actually asked President Xi when he comes here in September about the meddling that's just absolutely horrible. And I would say that there are a number of countries that try to meddle in our elections, but they do not affect the vote overall. People, the American people can have confidence that their votes were cast accurately and counted accurately. The correct winners over the last number of elections for the 250 years that this country has been founded are the correct winners. If there is doubts in that, then there are investigations that can be done. At one point, I was able to work for the Committee on House Administration and the United States Congress. And one of the things that Congress has is they can determine that they are the judges of their own electorate. So members of the House, every single member of the House who's ever been elected has been elected and then judged by the House of Representatives. So if they want to go back and look at that, there's this thing called the Contestant Contested Elections act act, where they send out bipartisan teams to look at whether or not there should be information gathered to call those results in the question. They are very rarely overturned and There's a whole chapters of books that are written which can be found at CRS and other areas to look into those sorts of things. But I want to make sure that I'm clear on this. Your vote will not count if you do not cast it. And so I say to the American people, go out in November and cast your votes for whoever you want to. The U.S. election Assistance Commission did not care on who won the votes or who won the elections. What we cared about was that the administration of the elections functioned well and that the accurate winners were the ones counted at the end of the day.
- [24:49]
Melanie Zanona
And what is your advice to secretaries of state who are in charge of executing our elections this fall?
- [24:55]
Thomas Hicks
I wish I could have joined them in South Dakota this last week when they had their national conference, and I would have told them to continue doing what you're doing. Republican, Democrat, and independent secretaries of state oversee the elections in their state for the most part as a chief election official. And so please continue doing your jobs and please continue giving the American people confidence that their votes are counted accurately.
- [25:24]
Melanie Zanona
Thomas Hicks, thank you. We really appreciate it.
- [25:27]
Thomas Hicks
Thank you.
- [25:29]
Melanie Zanona
Coming up, we'll have much more on the fallout from President Trump's intensifying focus on elections as new polling shows him struggling with voters on the most important issue in the midterms, the economy plus war zone expansion. The Pentagon launches strikes on bridges and key infrastructure in Iran as Tehran retaliates against a crucial US Ally in the region. You're watching Meet the Press now.
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Melanie Zanona
Welcome back. The US Is ramping up its attacks on Tehran, hitting key infrastructure in southern Iran overnight as the two sides battle for control over the Strait of Hormuz. These images appear to show the aftermath of a US Strike on a bridge that connects Iran's main port to roads leading towards Tehran. Iran's state media saying six bridges were hit in the latest strikes and at least eight people were killed. Meanwhile, oil prices continue to climb, closing above $80 a barrel for the first time in over a month. Gas prices also ticking back up the average price for a gallon of regular gas just short of the $4 mark. Joining me now is NBC News chief international correspondent Kier Simmons. Kirs, thank you as always for joining us. How are officials in Iran reacting to the latest round of strikes? And is the strike on the bridge in Iran being viewed as an escalation by the United States?
- [28:33]
Kier Simmons
Well, I don't know whether the United States sees it as an escalation. I think the Iranians certainly would see it as an escalation. And there are those in the Iranian regime that were already accusing the US of war crimes. Now, clearly, a bridge can be a piece of civilian infrastructure. Certainly Iran's foreign minister is saying that there were three villages, as he described it, on the bridge, who died. Those bridges, too, though, are also leading to Bandar Abbas, at least some of them do. And that is the port by the Strait of Hormuz. And that's a place where the Iranian military is concentrated. And, of course, inevitably, that port has been used by the Iranians to try to win over their demand that they control the Strait of Hormuz. So certainly what the US Military, US Central Command is saying is that it is trying to degrade Iranian military. It is trying to degrade the Iranian military's capability to strike tankers in the Strait of Hormuz. It is clearly, though, a part of a dangerous escalation across the region. We count now seven neighbors of Iran that have been targeted by Iran, including Qatar, where I am now. And I'll tell you, Mel, that in the early hours of the morning we heard loud explosions, windows shaking. And the Qataris say that that was them intercepting munitions from Iran, flying munitions, and that a child was injured by falling debris.
- [30:11]
Melanie Zanona
Wow. Kier, do Gulf nations still feel confident about their ability to defend against Iran's retaliatory strike strikes?
- [30:21]
Kier Simmons
They are defending against those strikes. I can hear right now the sound of an aircraft. Sounds to me like it's probably that may be a military aircraft. Can be hard to tell in the distance. But certainly I think these countries are working very hard to defend. Certainly at the same time some of these strikes are landing. So for example, in Kuwait, they saw a desalination plant, which is a plant that takes seawater and is able to turn it into drinking water. An energy plant on fire after it was hit. Another example of an impact on civilian life across the region. And that's one of the questions. You'll remember that President Trump warned Iran that he would start to target civilian infrastructure like energy plants if it didn't come back to the negotiating table. But there is a sense that both sides are sliding towards that those kinds of targets maybe as what as one upon a time was called a collateral damage.
- [31:32]
Melanie Zanona
Wow. Keir Simmons reporting from the region. Thank you. Up next, taking the stage and then meeting the press. One of the eight main Senate candidates who battled it out in last night's debate joins me next as the race to replace Graham Platner in a must win state for Democrats heats up.
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Chuck Rocha
Yeah.
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Melanie Zanona
I ordered it this morning.
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Tom Winter
Was online in minutes.
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Nirav Shah
Then they showed up.
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- [32:51]
Melanie Zanona
MEET the PRESS now. Welcome back. Turning now to the high stakes race in Maine to replace Graham Platner as the Democrats Senate candidate to take on Senator Susan Collins. A crowded field took to the debate stage split over two hours last night for the first time since the process to replace Platner began. The candidates generally avoided criticizing Platner, who dropped out of the race after being accused of rape, which he denies. Instead, the candidates said they'd look to carry forward Platner's progressive platform.
- [33:30]
Nirav Shah
I mean, what Graham talked about is
- [33:33]
Chuck Rocha
something that I've been fighting for since I got into politics. Health care, Medicare for all. I mean, people in this country deserve to have health care.
- [33:41]
Monica Alba
The single idea from Graham Platner that spoke most deeply to me is that he's right.
- [33:49]
Melanie Zanona
The democracy that we thought we had
- [33:51]
Monica Alba
has been deeply corrupted by those in power in Washington. Washington, the billionaires and the massive corporations.
- [33:58]
Nirav Shah
There are a lot of areas where Graham's policies and mine overlap. One that I think is particularly relevant this week is the need to finally abolish ICE.
- [34:09]
Melanie Zanona
Joining me now is Dr. Nirav Shah, who was on that debate stage and is running to replace Platner. He's a former public health official who was the director of Maine's center for Disease Control. Doctor, thank you so much for joining us. Let's start with your decision to get into this race. You said last night that this election comes down to, to electability. But last month you came in second place in your bid for the governor's race. So what makes you feel confident that you can defeat an incumbent senator like Collins when you weren't able to win in your primary?
- [34:40]
Nirav Shah
Well, what we need right now for the party is someone who can unify Democrats across the state. One of the reasons in which Senator Collins has been successful in winning is that every single one of her elections, she has been able to peel off a sliver of Democrats who break their ballots and vote cross party and vote for her. What we need then is a candidate who can unify every single Democrat in the state. And my performance on the June 9 gubernatorial primary, even though I came in second, showed that on election night because of our ranked choice voting system. On election night, I had secured the highest number of first choice ballots, not just in one part of the state, but all over the state, urban, rural, north, south, coastal and inland. What that is an indicator of is the strength of support among Democrats that I've, that I've got across the state. More Democrats in Maine ranked me Number one, than any other candidate. And that's going to be the intensity of support as well as the unity of support we're going to need to defeat Susan Collins.
- [35:43]
Melanie Zanona
And analysis released this morning by the Bangor Daily News shows that Troy Jackson is being favored right now by potential Democratic delegates who are in charge of picking the next nominee. You're making the case for electability. Do you think Troy Jackson would not be able to beat Susan Collins?
- [36:01]
Nirav Shah
Based on what we've seen from the gubernatorial primary, the answer is no. I don't think he would have as good of a chance to beat Senator Collins as I would. Senator Jackson came in in third place in the primary, did not have the same number of first choice votes, votes, and thus may not have the same ability to unify the party in all parts of the state, north, south, east, west, as I do.
- [36:24]
Melanie Zanona
Something that really struck me last night at the debate is that you and Jackson as well as the two other candidates on the debate stage seem to really share a lot of the same vision on a lot of the same policy issues. There wasn't a whole lot of actual debating. So is there anything policy wise that differentiates you from the other candidate?
- [36:44]
Nirav Shah
You know, Mel, I think on matters of policy, there is not that much light between the various candidates. All of us are progressives. All of us in the gubernatorial or the congressional races in which we previously run espouse those strong progressive values. And that's why, as you said at the top, what this rocket primary is going to come down to is electability. It's not so much about who is the most progressive or who has the most different or unique set of ideas. It's ultimately going to be about who is best positioned to defeat Senator Collins. As I mentioned, the data show that I am the candidate who is best able to do that. So this race is going to be about organization. It's going to be about recruiting delegates and making a strong showing when we go to the convention next weekend.
- [37:31]
Melanie Zanona
What is the reason you think you're more electable? If it's not as you said about the policy issues, when it comes to you and these other progressive candidates,
- [37:40]
Donald Trump
I
- [37:40]
Nirav Shah
really think it's because what we need is a party that will not have any segment of Democratic voters peel off. And as I mentioned a moment ago, the data show the numbers show I'm the guy that can keep the party together. The other critical factor in the main electorate are independents. Independents are about a third of the state. And in a recent poll I had the highest net favorability rating of any of the candidates among independents. And so the key to this election is going to preventing those Democrats from crossing over and voting for Senator Collins, number one, and then number two, who can get the strongest showing among independents. And the polling data there suggests that, at least when it comes to favorabilities, I've got the best case to keep those independents with the Democratic Party and ultimately defeat Senator Collins come November.
- [38:33]
Melanie Zanona
So will you moderate in the November campaign?
- [38:37]
Nirav Shah
Now, my values are my values indeed, in the gubernatorial race. Those are the same policy positions that I staked out in the gubernatorial race are still at play now that we're in a federal race. Indeed, they're still on my website, just so I can give voters a sense of, of how I was thinking about being a progressive on state policy matters. But no, my values are my values, whether it's the passage of Medicare for all, taxing billionaires at a higher level, suspending arms sales to Israel in light of the genocide. Those are values that I've shared and have had. Now, again, I'm translating them from the state level because of the greater depth and breadth of a federal race.
- [39:20]
Melanie Zanona
Two Democrats who are not backing your candidacy are Illinois Senators Tammy Duckworth and Dick. Both of them have been vocally opposed to your candidacy, citing your handling of the outbreaks of the Legionnaires disease at a veterans home that led to the deaths of 13 people starting in 2015 when you were public health director. Why should Maine voters trust your judgment when two of your would be colleagues say you're not up for the job?
- [39:45]
Nirav Shah
Well, one of the reasons why Maine voters are not surprised, let alone put off by this, is that it's been something that I have talked about here in Maine for as long as I've been here. Maine voters. For Maine voters, this was not a surprise. It came up again from since my very first days handling or being director of the Maine center for Disease Control during the pandemic. It came up numerous times. And what Maine voters care about is the fact that I showed up for them hundreds of times every single day during the pandemic. Now, the other way that voters know that what Senators Duckworth and Durbin are referring to is not something that they should give a lot of concern to is that what this ultimately comes down to is my handling of a public health situation. What voters can take solace in is the fact that my handling of that situation was carefully reviewed by Maine's Governor, Janet Mills when she hired me and then the Biden administration when it hired me to be the number two official at the US cdc. So because that that situation was carefully vetted and ultimately found that we followed the playbook to a T. Well, that's why Maine voters don't have a lot of concern over it. I think they know that it's more politics than reality.
- [41:05]
Melanie Zanona
Yesterday's debate, you didn't call out Platner's controversies on stage. Were you worried that doing so would alienate his progressive voters?
- [41:14]
Nirav Shah
Oh, no, not whatsoever. And indeed, within an hour or two of the story breaking a week and a half ago, I immediately took to social media to talk about how horrifying and appalling the recent set of allegations were. And I immediately called for him to step down. It wasn't a direct question that we were asked last night, but let me affirm and say very clearly the allegations against Mr. Plattner are again, horrifying, appalling. I immediately called for him to step down. He made the right decision in stepping down. I am not seeking his endorsement, nor would I accept it.
- [41:50]
Melanie Zanona
Why don't you call for him to step down even sooner than that, given all the other controversies that were out there about his candidacy?
- [41:57]
Nirav Shah
Well, what we're talking about with this latest allegation is a serious criminal allegation of forcible rape that is different from the allegations that had been made previously. They are again, far more significant of a potentially criminal nature involving forcible rape. That is different than Reddit posts. Those were no less objectionable. They were quite troubling. But once you get into the realm of possible potential criminal liability, well, that's when it's time to bow out.
- [42:28]
Melanie Zanona
Nirav Shah, we thank you for your time and good luck.
- [42:32]
Nirav Shah
Thanks, Mel.
- [42:34]
Melanie Zanona
After the break, Fire in the sky. You're looking at live pictures of a very smoky Philly skyline as tens of millions of Americans are smothered in smoke from those raging Canadian wildfires. Very latest is next. Keep it here on MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Federal health officials have now traced part of that multi state outbreak of psychosuriasis, a parasite that can cause weeks of severe diarrhea, to lettuce served at certain Taco Bell restaurants in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio and West Virginia. The CDC and FDA say they have identified a single supplier in Mexico and that they're working to determine if the contaminated lettuce went to other places. The agencies did not name the supplier, but two sources with knowledge of the investigation tell NBC News that it is Taylor Farms. In a statement this afternoon, Taylor Farms said it is removing all iceberg lettuce sourced from central Mexico indefinitely, but that its branded salads and salad kits are not currently associated with the outbreak. Taco Bell says it has voluntarily removed lettuce suspected in the outbreak from its supply chain nationwide. Nationwide, across the country, 34 states have been impacted by outbreaks, with officials investigating nearly 7,000 cases nationwide. But the worst of it appears to be in Michigan, where cases top 5,000. Nationwide, at least 141 people have been hospitalized since the outbreak began in May. And turning now to a different kind of health threat, the dense smoke cloaking large parts of the country. This is a live look at a very hazy, smoky downtown Chicago, which has seen some of the worst air quality of any city in the entire world over the past 36 hours. The smoke affecting air quality from the Northeast to the upper Midwest, with cities like Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and, as I mentioned, Chicago facing air quality levels so dangerously high that officials are urging everyone to stay indoors. The thick smoke is expected to move south throughout today, dipping as far down as the Carolinas by tonight, fueling the smoke cloud. Wildfires raging across Canada, more than 100 of them deemed out of control. President Trump lashing out at Canada on social media this afternoon, saying he's holding the country responsible for air quality issues in the US and floating new tariffs as potential punishment. Still to come, our panel of political experts dig into Trump's fiery address to the nation as Congress and election officials brace for what's next. This is MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Joining me now is the panel, Tamara Keith, senior political correspondent and host of the NPR Politics podcast Chuck Rocha, Democratic strategist and founder of Solidarity Strategies and Ashley Davis, founding partner at Westfront Strategies and a former homeland Security official during the George W. Bush administration. Thank you all so much for joining us. Happy Friday. Quite a lot to talk about here. Tamara, I want to start with you. Who was the president's speech last night aimed at? Was this for the base? Was this for the voters? Was this for Congress? And what impact do you think it ultimately had?
- [46:02]
Tamara Keith
Yeah. So I was talking to a pollster who has worked with the president, president's broader team, and he said that he saw this as a motivation speech rather than a persuasion speech. At this point, not a lot of people are going to be persuaded by much of anything President Trump says. So the idea would be that it could motivate the base maybe, but it also could deflate people who are sort of irregular voters, the kind of people who help President Trump win in 2024, people who might say, well, if it's Rigged, even go through the process of voting. But I have to say, the other major audience is Congress. He's trying to get this Save America act passed. He has run into a brick wall in the Senate. And so he harnessed the airwaves in a way that only the President of the United States can by doing a primetime address to once again make this pitch for the Save America act, but then also to say, if it doesn't pass, then the election can't be fair. People might cheat. Which is a pretty stunning thing for the president to say, but not necessarily stunning for this president to say, no doubt.
- [47:13]
Melanie Zanona
Ashley, I want to get your perspective because you worked for DHS previously. What did you make of the speech and particularly the role that the DHS is now playing in all of this?
- [47:22]
Ashley Davis
Well, first of all, I actually had a little sigh of relief after the speech because I didn't know which direction it was going. I thought it was going to be much more. More of the every election stolen, you know, kind of rhetoric than it was. One of the things that I really watched today, though, was some of the local officials, election officials around the country, Republicans, Democrats, wherever, actually saying, like, yes, we need more money. We don't have good voting systems. And, you know, so I just thought that part was interesting. But, I mean, I think DHS and obviously the intel committees, I think that's something that he's always wanted to. I hope it doesn't take it away from the mission of dhs, of securing our country. However, if there ever is foreign interference, which we've been hearing about since 2016, starting with Russia, that's obviously a concern, too. I mean, our enemies want to destroy our democracy in any way. So I actually am not shocked that DHS is involved. You're gonna say it's taken away from the midterm election.
- [48:24]
Chuck Rocha
Don't get in my space.
- [48:25]
Tamara Keith
Yeah.
- [48:26]
Melanie Zanona
Well, I want to pick up on something that Tamara was saying about. Democrats are really worried that this is laying the groundwork to say the election was stolen if it doesn't go Trump's way in November. But is there some sort of balance that you think Democrats need to strike here between holding the president accountable and not, you know, raising alarms about something that hasn't even happened yet.
- [48:44]
Chuck Rocha
We're moving into a midterm, so. Moving into a midterm? I run elections for a living, and it's much different than a presidential election. We have to motivate people to show up. And maybe that's what he was doing last night. But I think of quoting A wise woman who is my wife. Last night I was watching this on tv, and she walked by and she goes, what's he talking about? And I said, well, he's talking about election fraud. I need to watch this. I have to talk about on tv. And she said, well, how's your election fraud? He was elected, and Republicans control the House and Republicans control the Senate. Seems like everything's working out for them. Now, that, I think, is how a lot of people probably felt that was watching this. But back to my point, if it's a motivating factor for his base, maybe it works, maybe it don't. But Democrats have to say, sure, there should be more money anytime that there needs to be money moved into updating elections, making sure that the voter systems and all the things that are working, but at the same time going, there ain't no voter fraud right now, but we can update all the systems.
- [49:30]
Tamara Keith
But the Save America act doesn't have money to update those systems. So it's solving for a different problem than the one that the president raised.
- [49:39]
Melanie Zanona
And it doesn't address foreign adversaries.
- [49:40]
Ashley Davis
No.
- [49:41]
Tamara Keith
Right.
- [49:41]
Ashley Davis
Yeah.
- [49:42]
Melanie Zanona
Ashley, is there any risk that this might motivate the base, but it could also depress turnout if people don't think the elections are gonna be safe and their vote won't matter?
- [49:49]
Ashley Davis
Maybe. I just don't know. This is mid July. Is it really people are paying attention to right now, I still think. And goes back to, you know, probably this poll. We'll talk about where people are more concerned about their groceries and more concerned about their gas prices than this. I think, to be honest with you, I'm tired of hearing about the election stuff. So I'm sure. And I do it for a living, so I'm assuming most people are as well.
- [50:13]
Melanie Zanona
I know there's certainly some Republicans on
- [50:15]
Chuck Rocha
Capitol Hill who feel that way in marginal seats. I promise you.
- [50:18]
Melanie Zanona
Yes, I do want to turn to. To the economy. To exactly your point, we have some new polling. It's from cnbc, All America poll. It shows the president's underwater on his handling of the economy. Tamara, what are the midterm implications here?
- [50:31]
Tamara Keith
So the handling of the economy in the first term was President Trump's greatest strength. People really saw him as this outsider businessman who helped the economy. The fact that he's underwater on the economy is a problem for the midterms to. For Republicans. Because every voter you talk to says, the cost of living is what I care about, the price of gas is what I care about, and I have these swing voters that I talk to regularly. I asked them about the speech last night and a couple of them were like, yeah, but he didn't even really address that. There was maybe a sentence and a half about the cost of living in this long speech that the president gave.
- [51:10]
Melanie Zanona
There's also this housing bill. It became law, but he didn't sign it. Is that a missed opportunity for the White House to embrace something that would actually bring down some cost of living?
- [51:18]
Tamara Keith
Well, and he said he wouldn't sign it because he was protesting in favor of the Save America Act. It did become law. I think it's a missed opportunity for some Republicans on the Hill who really wanted a big celebration and, you know, video of the president signing their bill that they could put in their ads. And they've been robbed of that.
- [51:34]
Melanie Zanona
You know, despite this polling that shows Trump underwater and people unhappy about the economy, Democrats don't have a huge edge in this poll either. Chuck, what do you make of that?
- [51:43]
Chuck Rocha
I'm working in races from Maine to California, and there's one thing that's overarching everywhere and it also cuts across almost all the race lines, which is an anxiety about affordability. But it's more than affordability. It's when you talk about what they've done to make things worse. Democrats have two jobs. They have to disqualify the Republicans. And Donald Trump is helping us do that. Exactly with what he did last night. But they also have to make the case of what our vision is. And it doesn't have to be super. Listen to me, Democrats. It does not have to be in a 15 ring binder. You can just say we're going to stop what they're doing and drop a couple of ideas of how to grow the economy.
- [52:15]
Melanie Zanona
And Ashley, how concerned are Republicans about these types of numbers? And do you think there's enough time between now and November to turn it around?
- [52:22]
Ashley Davis
The pushes two things. The numbers are bad, which I think everyone knows and feels. I mean, this one was a little worse than normal. But I think that they're a little happy that they only have the generic poll, the generic numbers of The Democrats up 4 points, which is not that much in regards to a broad wave. But I actually would say something else from what Chuck's saying. I think that people are tired of the status quo. I mean, that's how Trump came in. So the establishment candidate. So you see this upswell of excitement with the socialist candidates or whatever you want to say. I think it is more just like we need to change what's happening in Washington, which is again, how Trump came in. So it's interesting. That's what's happening, and it's a final
- [52:59]
Chuck Rocha
reminder for everybody at home is that this whole race coming in the midterm is going to happen in 35 congressional seats and five Senate races, not any national polls.
- [53:06]
Melanie Zanona
Right. And Tamara, just looking ahead to the midterms, I mean, how much do you think the economy is going to be the central issue?
- [53:13]
Tamara Keith
The economy is the central issue, but also change. As they talked about, people want to shake things up.
- [53:18]
Nirav Shah
People are upset and it's because of
- [53:20]
Chuck Rocha
the anxiety that they feel. That's why incumbents are super unpopular, whether they're in the Democratic primary in a swing district. That's one thing that's cutting across all of my races right now.
- [53:28]
Melanie Zanona
Parties. Right.
- [53:29]
Chuck Rocha
Exactly. They're like, we've tried both sides of this and none of this is getting any better.
- [53:33]
Melanie Zanona
Going to be a very important, interesting election. Tamara, Chuck and Ashley, thank you all. We're back Monday with more MEET THE PRESS now. And there's more ahead on NBC News.
- [53:41]
Cyndi Lauper
Now.
- [53:54]
Shaquille O'Neal
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