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Meet the Press NOW — July 20
00:52:52
The military conflict between the U.S. and Iran intensifies as the Pentagon identifies two U.S. soldiers killed in an Iranian attack of a U.S. air base in Jordan. Former state Senate President Troy Jackson (D-Maine) becomes the likely pick for the Democratic nomination to replace Graham Platner in the Senate race. Former Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli joins Meet the Press NOW to discuss President Trump’s claims of interference in the 2020 election.
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- [00:00]
Kelly O'Donnell
There's only one Ozempic.
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Meet the Press Host
Hello, I'm Ozempic and I'm other GLP1s kinda like him.
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Ken Cuccinelli
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Meet the Press Host
You redid your jingle.
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Jeff Mason
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Ken Cuccinelli
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I told you it was catchy.
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Kelly O'Donnell
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Ken Cuccinelli
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Stephen Hayes
I'm just a regular dad who happens
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Alex Seitzwald
to have a stylist. I really look my best when someone
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Ken Cuccinelli
else makes the decisions.
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Retired Colonel Steve Warren
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Jeff Mason
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Stitch Fix Ad Voice
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Meet the Press Host
Welcome to Meet the Press. Now I'm Kelly o' Donnell in Washington. As the US And Iran inch closer to all out war again with the US death toll rising over the weekend amid nine straight days of US strikes six sending gas prices back to the $4 mark. During the weekend, the Pentagon releasing new video of its continued military assault targeting coastal surveillance sites in an effort to degrade Iran's ability to disrupt traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. Iran now accusing the US of hitting more civilian infrastructure with state media releasing these images of what appear to show damage to a desalinization plant in southern Iran. Now NBC cannot determine when or where this video was shot, but NBC has identified stunning video taken over the weekend showing the moment an Iranian missile hit a US Air base in Jordan. You can clearly see the fireball explosion from that attack. The Pentagon today releasing the names of two soldiers killed in the attack. First Lieutenant Tyler James Feehan and Private Isabella Gonzalez. The Pentagon also announcing it recovered unidentified remains while searching for an American service member reported missing after the strike. And in a separate incident in Iraq, a US Service member was killed during a control detonation of of a downed Iranian drone. Now this brings the US death toll as a result of the war to 17. In a post on social media today, President Trump lashing out at Iran over those troops being killed, writing quote, every time Iran kills an American soldier, they will pay for that killing many times over. It echoes the president's comments yesterday where he appeared to signal the military campaign is not ending anytime soon.
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President Donald Trump
Well, we feel very badly, but you know, those great people, those great patriots were out there fighting that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Iran has been very, very badly damaged. They've lost everything, almost militarily. They've got very little left. They've got some missiles, they've got some drones. They've got some manufacturing ability. Not much. We control the strait. They don't control anything. So we'll see what happens. This is a far bigger that we're doing. We were doing a little job stopping them from having a certain capability. Now we're just ending it. So it's really not the same thing. What we're doing now is we're ending any chance where they can have a nuclear missile.
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Meet the Press Host
Despite the military escalation, Secretary of State Marco Rubio still leaving the door open to diplomacy.
- [04:11]
Secretary of State Marco Rubio
I think we're always open to diplomacy. It has to be real. It has to be a deal that they're willing to live by. Look, Iran a week ago was to put out, supposed to put out a statement saying that the Straits of Hormuz would be open, that they would no longer attack shipping. And instead of doing that, they attacked three ships. I think that was last Friday or Saturday. So, I mean, their behavior has to change in order for ours to change. What I will say is that the United States always remains open to a diplomatic solution. We've tried multiple times with Iran, and we'll continue to try. If that door opens, we'll be happy to see it open. But. Right. And they continue to send signals that they want to talk, that they want to negotiate, but their behavior is what we're responding to. And their behavior is they're launching missiles and drones against ships, including tonight.
- [04:54]
Meet the Press Host
And as we noted, the escalating conflict is pushing fuel prices back up. The average cost of gas is now at $4 a gallon for the first time in more than a month. Joining me now is NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons. He's in Jordan. And with me on set are NBC News senior national security correspondent Courtney Kuby and NBC News military analyst, retired Colonel Steve Warren. Welcome to all of you. Monica, let me start with you. What is the White House and the latest thinking on Iran and its strategy to get back to the negotiating table? We heard a little bit of different language from the president there when he talked about acknowledging some of the capabilities Iran still has and he, of course, acknowledged the deaths of Americans.
- [05:40]
Monica Alba
Certainly, Kelly, and the way that a senior administration official described it to our team may be the best way to sum this up, which is that this is a, quote, time of ambiguity, where it is unclear whether this escalation from a military sense is going to produce what could be this alternative outcome of getting to a negotiated situation where there could be potentially still some diplomatic solution, which you did see Secretary Rubio nodding to there. But President Trump very clearly sending a message today on social media that there will continue to be military action, especially in regards to those fallen service members, and acknowledging that. So the question is what could really change or move things from the direction that we have seen, which is to continue that escalation that would get the parties back to the negotiating table in any meaningful sense. We are told by that senior official that the talks behind the scenes do continue. But it's really unclear, Kelly, what they can actually produce at this point.
- [06:39]
Meet the Press Host
Monica, we saw the president recently dismiss the idea that this is somehow a new normal. But do you think the White House would factor in economic fallout, like prices for gas going up? Is that something that might again cause him to take a different turn?
- [06:55]
Monica Alba
I think so. And you can really assess that based on how they acted when they really celebrated the memorandum of understanding and that signing ceremony that you saw at the palace of Versailles in June, because the White House really took that to try to tell the American people that they should celebrate the fact that now prices were going to come down. And we did see that dip with the price of oil, certainly after that. That, of course, has now gone back up. So it's really hard to imagine that that isn't something that's being considered now and isn't something that they're certainly going to have to address. And that should factor, we believe, into the decision making from what we understand when we talk to White House officials, even though President Trump on the record was the one who said that when he does make these decisions about the negotiations with Iran, that he doesn't factor in Americans personal financial decisions, which of course kicked off a lot of controversy.
- [07:47]
Meet the Press Host
Kelly, changing gears a little bit, I want to get your take on something that the president talked about, and that is the new version of Air Force One. It's got the new paid scheme. This is the gifted plane from Qatar. And he talked about the fact that it will need some security upgrades, even though it's only been in service as a version of Air Force One for a short amount of time. What is happening with this and what are the next steps?
- [08:10]
Monica Alba
This was significant because the president himself acknowledged that this plane, that this luxury jet that had been retrofitted to serve as Air Force One does need additional enhancements and upgrades. And now Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary, is confirming on the record that that is going to take place in the coming weeks, though she does write in a statement that the plane is perfectly safe, safe for the president's travels, but they are going to look at that and it is likely going to take approximately one month to complete those enhancements. And so during that time, Kelly, we can expect the president to be traveling on the older Air Force One, the one that he did end up flying back from Turkey to that air base in the UK before getting back on the new jet to fly in the U.S. so the question is when that will happen and whether it will impact his potential next foreign trip, Kelly.
- [09:01]
Meet the Press Host
And it does raise questions about should that plane have been in service at all, what will it cost taxpayers? Much more to follow on that. Thank you so much. Monica Kir, let me turn to you now you're in Jordan, and that, of course, is one of the countries that Iran is targeting as part of what is broadly being called retaliatory strikes. What is the mood like there? And are people in the region and specifically where you are worried about how this could spiral into even greater military conflict?
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Kelly O'Donnell
Well, I think people already feel as if they are facing a full scale conflict here. We had alarms again, air raid alarms, air raid sirens. Kelly, just in the past few hours here in Amman, Jordan, the capital of the country. Those missiles, according to the Jordanians, three missiles were intercepted to the east of the country. But just another night when the Iranians have fired on this country. And of course, it was a night like this when those servicemen and women were killed here. And it just continues the bombardment. No matter President Trump's warnings to Iran that it would face exponentially more deaths for every American soldier that it killed, the Iranians are doubling down. It's not just here in Jordan. It is in Kuwait and in Bahrain and across the region. This is escalatory. The point is really, I mean, you call it an escalatory spiral. It's hard to see where the off ramp is for either side, honestly.
- [10:40]
Meet the Press Host
So Secretary Rubio says diplomacy still engaged. We want to see that as an option. How difficult do you think it is based on all your reporting, to get the two sides back to the table in a constructive way?
- [10:55]
Kelly O'Donnell
I mean, I think it's certainly possible. The spokesperson for Iran's Foreign Ministry today said talks are a possibility, but then again, just underscoring how challenging it is to talk to the Iranians for the U.S. the foreign minister Iraqi said in an interview just over the weekend that he actually currently doesn't have direct face to face talks with with the key decision maker in Iran that is the new supreme leader. So I think there's a challenge in that respect and also that we have heard from every facet of the Iranian leadership insisting that they are continuing to try to pursue their goals, including control the Strait of Hormuz, for example. So, yes, there can be talks. I think the question is to what end.
- [11:49]
Meet the Press Host
Thank you so much, Kir. We'll go from Amman to right here in the studio. And Courtney, let me start with you. When you consider the military capabilities that remain for Iran, the president, I was a little surprised that he did acknowledge they have some missiles, they have some capabilities. What is left to target? And does that targeting from your reporting look like it's making any difference?
- [12:10]
Courtney Kuby
It's really hard to say because when we look at the statements that are coming out of US Central Command, it's been about 10 days of strikes now. They consistently talk about sort of broadcast of what the US Is going after, things like coastal radar sites, missile launch sites, drone launching sites. And we aren't getting specificity about exactly how many strikes they're taking anymore or the location. Now, frequently they say that it is in direct response to Iran targeting commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, but we aren't hearing as much about it being along the coast as we were initially. And then just to add to that, on Saturday, CENTCOM specifically said that they went after targets that were responsible for the attack that killed those two US Soldiers in Jordan, injuring many more. In fact, frankly, we just in the last few moments we got on social media, the chief spokesperson for the Pentagon announced that there have been nearly 100Americans injured over the last nine or 10 days since July 7, I think it was. So that's dramatically higher than what we had been hearing over the weekend. And we don't have any sense of where those attacks took place or exactly the nature of their injuries. He does go on to say that the majority of those have been returned to duty. But again, there's a lot of opaqueness and lack of transparency about what exactly is happening here.
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Meet the Press Host
Let's just live with that for a second. So we know 17 deaths and now they're telling us more than 100American service members have suffered some kind of injury. And those that go Back to duty. Obviously it was a minor injury, but that is a significant number.
- [13:38]
Courtney Kuby
And it could, some of those, remember, some of the return to duty could be suspected traumatic brain injury because there's like a protocol where they'll watch them for days or even weeks and see if they start to develop symptoms. And that can ultimately lead to, you know, a serious ailment, something that they can even spend months, if not years recovering from. But yes, it does appear that the majority of them have been returned to duty. But again, it just shows we've been asking for days about the exact number of how many Americans have been injured. And now we don't even know where all of these attacks occurred or when.
- [14:09]
Meet the Press Host
Well, maybe your questions help to prompt that. Before I go to the Colonel, do you get a sense, based again on the expertise and reporting you bring to the table here, is there a perceived hole in the US Ability to protect forces in the region? Is that something we're sort of seeing based on the fact that injuries are occurring?
- [14:27]
Courtney Kuby
Yes, absolutely. So it's not a secret that the US Military has expended a huge number of their defenses. So things like the interceptors that are launched from a Thaad or from a Patriot, those are the ones that are literally a missile. They launch up and they target and they slam into an incoming ballistic missile or some other kind of projectile, in some cases a large drone, and take them out. Well, we know that the military has expended a huge number of those not during, during, just during this war, but also during the 12 day war with Iran and Israel last summer. So it takes months and years to replace these inventories and they simply have not had the time to do so. Even with stepped up production efforts by the Defense industrial base here in the United States, they still are way behind where they need to be. And the question is, are attacks like the one that we saw in Jordan? The realization that the US Military simply does not have everything they need to defend the people who are there. Keep in mind, early on when this war was starting and even before it started, the US Military did pull a significant number of people out of the region. But there's still people there, more than 50,000 of them, who could be in harm's way.
- [15:32]
Meet the Press Host
That's concerning information. So, Colonel, let me go to you. You had a role in Operation Inherent Resolve, which was the mission against isis. And as a spokesperson, and I was reminded of that today, and it's very fitting to ask you about this because the Pentagon is currently saying some of these deaths are associated with that mission and not what we commonly think of as the Iran war. You're a communicator in the military as well as having as a colonel, you had real life world experience. Does that make sense? And are these still retaliatory or is this part of kind of a new offensive?
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Retired Colonel Steve Warren
Sure. Two largely different questions. Most likely, the reason the Pentagon has identified those killed in Jordan as part of Operation Inherent Resolve is because that's what they were there for in the first place. Right. Those troops had. May well have deployed six or eight months ago as part of that operation. And so they're sort of attached to that operation. The Iranians don't care. Right. They don't care what operation.
- [16:32]
Meet the Press Host
They're exploiting them.
- [16:33]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
They're just shooting at anybody they can find. Right. So I think. So that's that to build on what Courtney said regarding holes in our defenses. You know, the other important thing to keep in mind, we have a saying in the military, right. The enemy gets a vote.
- [16:46]
Meet the Press Host
Yes.
- [16:47]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
And the Iranians have learned, Right. They are learning over time how to attack American defenses, whether it's different angles of attack, whether they bring their missiles in from a different location, or whether they use swarm attacks. So in any defense, there's always going to be what we sometimes in the army call leakers. Something's going to leak through. That's always a possibility. And now that the Iranians are able to refine their offensive tactics, we will have to now refine our defensive tactics.
- [17:13]
Meet the Press Host
So we've heard from the president. Obliterated. But you're describing an adaptive ability to use what they have to continue to be in the fight.
- [17:21]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
That's exactly right. Every enemy learns, every foe learns. They adapt, they improvise. They figure out new ways to deal with what they're facing. And let's keep in mind the Iranians, you know, they refined IEDs during the war in Iraq. You know, they created, you know, new ways to attack American soldiers. And, you know, they were partnered with the Iraqis often. And so they are experienced at evolving the way they fight to adapt to the way the Americans fight.
- [17:53]
Meet the Press Host
There's another actor from the region that may be wanting to engage here, and that's the Houthis, who are talking about wanting to stop Saudi Arabia from using the Strait of Hormuz. What is your sense of how they would be involved in this and how much of a concern is it?
- [18:07]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
Well, the other thing we have to think about is what cards each everybody has to play. Right. The Americans, we have more cards we can play. And You've heard some of that being talked about, whether it's an assault on an island somewhere, whether it's, you know, intensifying strikes deeper into Iran. Well, the Iranians have cards they can play as well, and one of those cards is the Houthi card. Right. So they can encourage the Houthis to shut down.
- [18:31]
Meet the Press Host
Like a force multiplier for them.
- [18:32]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
It's like a force multiplier. They're a proxy force, a term we've used often. So the Iranians can now energize the Houthis to begin creating a second set of problems for us. Additional economic hardship. You know, lots of things the Houthis can do in the Bab El Mandeb Straits, which is another choke point. And, oh, by the way, let's not forget the Houthis have the capability to range even the Suez Canal.
- [18:57]
Monica Alba
Yeah.
- [18:58]
Meet the Press Host
And I can tell from your body language, Courtney, that you are checking the latest from your sources.
- [19:02]
Courtney Kuby
Yeah, we just found out about 15 minutes ago that the US started another round of strikes against Iran. So, I mean, what's really day 10, then? This is day 10. Yeah. So what's really telling is every day now when they announce that they're doing these strikes, I always look to see exactly what the justification or the reason is. And this is another one where CENTCOM is saying that it's to degrade Iran's military capabilities to attack commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. So unlike over the weekend where they said it was not only to go after those assets that were attacking commercial shipping, it was also then about retaliation for the US Military service members who were injured and killed. Now, this seems to be back to specifically for the Strait of Hormuz. We'll see how it continues to evolve, though.
- [19:40]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
Kelly, this is an example of miscalculations that begin to skid out of control. Right. The Iranians miscalculated. The initial miscalculation was to attack that commercial shipping as it was going through the. We then reacted as you would expect we would. I don't know that we calculated how hard the Iranians would push back. Now Americans are killed. Now this is beginning to spiral even
- [20:01]
Joy Bauer
more out of control.
- [20:02]
Meet the Press Host
Certainly makes it more complicated, more difficult for the president. We also know that he does plan to go to Dover to receive the fallen service members when they return back to the United States. Thank you both for your expertise. We really appreciate that. And coming up, we're going to turn now from those world events to the Democrats and what's happening in the midterm race. Coming up, we'll give you more on what's going on in Maine. He's a logger and he's a former state Senate president Troy Jackson appears ready to replace Graham Platner as the Democrats likely choice to take on Senator Susan Collins. That's after a whirlwind weekend trying to clear the field for his nomination. Plus, we also can tell you that sources tell NBC News that the FBI has been told to stand down on investigating confrontations involving ICE agents, despite growing calls for accountability after the latest fatal shootings by ICE officers. You're watching Meet the Press now.
- [21:05]
Ken Cuccinelli
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Meet the Press Host
Are you shaking a maraca?
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Ozempic Ad Spokesperson
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Ken Cuccinelli
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Meet the Press Host
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Meet the Press Host
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- [22:20]
Meet the Press Host
Welcome back. As we mentioned, there's a new main character in the race to replace Graham Platner. Former Maine State Senate President Troy Jackson has emerged as the Democrats likely pick to take on Republican Senator Susan Collins in the November midterms. On Sunday, all of Jackson's top opponents dropped out of the race, with many throwing their support behind his campaign. That came after Jackson's slate of delegates dominated county meetings and it became clear he would have what appears to be an insurmountable advantage at the upcoming nominating convention. So Jackson who campaigned with Platner before calling on him to drop out following the accusations of rape, which Platner has denied, he's been looking to carry on Platner's populist message and progressive policy. We're not from the left, we're not from the right. We're from the bottom and we're rising. And I know what happens when working people decide that they've had enough.
- [23:18]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
When we do, we stand up, we
- [23:20]
Meet the Press Host
lock arms, we fight back, and then we win. And joining me now is Alex Seitzwald, former NBC News politics reporter, friend of the show here, and current editor of the Maine newspaper, the Mid Coast Villager. So he's our man on the ground. So, Alex, explain to me what happened this weekend and how this went so quickly. I was surprised that Jackson was able to coalesce so much support before the convention. I thought we'd go all the way to the end here.
- [23:48]
Alex Seitzwald
Yeah, Kelly, everyone was surprised by this. Another turn in this very unusual Senate campaign, although this one a bit of an anti climax because Troy Jackson is, as your setup noted, kind of the obvious heir apparent to Graham Plattner. They campaign together, they have similar politics. So it makes sense for a main Democratic electorate that seemed to vote for those politics, 72% for Graham Platner to get the movement the message, but without the man of Platner and Troy Jackson. And this weekend we had these state nominating conventions in all 16 counties in Maine. And I don't think anyone expected it to be wrapped up this quickly. It was a battle between all the candidates to get their slates of delegates elected to next weekend's convention. But Platt, I mean, excuse me, Jackson just out organized the other candidates. He's had the backing of all the labor unions in Maine. He's the former state Senate president, so he knows how to count votes and whip votes. And that's really what this came down to, was getting your people to the polls. I mean, we're talking about, you know, hundreds or thousands of people here, not the entire electorate of the state, getting them to the special county meetings on a Saturday or a Sunday and getting them to vote for your slate of delegates that you had to recruit, too. So after this very tumultuous primary, it looks like Maine Democrats are now uniting behind Troy Jackson, although we still have six days or so until it becomes official. And I don't want to count anything out at this point.
- [25:16]
Meet the Press Host
It sounds you're describing organizational advantage, maybe even more than message or perhaps a mix of both. But that, that was really the Activating thing to get so many delegates to be on Jackson's team and willing to go to the next step and then to get all the others to say, okay, well, surrender, is that the thing? Organization over message. And is there any lesson in that for what would happen in November?
- [25:42]
Alex Seitzwald
Yeah, absolutely, Kelly. This is totally unlike a typical primary, any typical election, really. Kind of an old school process. And it all took place in just 21 days, less than that from since Platner stepped down and the allegations came out. The universe of voters here, the people who matter, are 601 people. You know, that's smaller than some high school, city council, student council elections. And it took getting people recruited to be delegates and then getting people to be recruited as voters at those county conventions and then getting them to show up and then getting them to vote for the slate. So this was really a much more insidery process given the limited time and lack of ability to hold a new primary. And I think Jackson showed that he could dominate that. And you know, to your question, I don't think Jackson could have won if this was about message and door knocking and the kind of typical things of a campaign. And that's not even speculation because he just ran a statewide race for governor a month ago and lost, came in third or fourth place. But he does have those kind of old school insider chops. And in this process he really showed that he could just run circles around the other candidates who are more novice when it comes to that kind of political machinations.
- [27:02]
Meet the Press Host
When you consider the kind of opponent Susan Collins, the Republican who has won and won and won over again, would want to draw from Democrats since the campaign's been put in upheaval, many would argue that Platner was a flawed candidate. That might have been helpful for Collins. What do you think is the sense of how this matchup goes when we're beyond the 600 you just spoke, but really open to all of the voters in the state?
- [27:28]
Alex Seitzwald
Yeah, I mean, that's obviously the big question. And it's really an unknown because Susan Collins has never run against somebody like Troy Jackson, who is the working class kind of guy that Graham Plattner claimed to be. He was born to a 16 year old mother in Fort Kent, which is way up on the Canadian border, small, remote, potato farming and timber logging town. He's a fifth generation logger. He speaks with this thick north Maine woods accent. He's not the most compelling speaker the way Graham Platner is. But you know what, neither is Susan Collins. So this is gonna be a very different race than it would have been with Graham Platner. And I think you'll still see Troy Jackson trying to tie Collins to Trump to the national Republican Party and Collins trying to focus on her work in the state. But Republicans were starting to get excited to run against Platner, and they were hoping that any new allegations would wait to come out until after the deadline. But now they're gonna have to throw out that playbook and start again.
- [28:28]
Meet the Press Host
Well, we know we will see a lot more of you in the months to come. And we could always play the game of tell me you're in Maine without telling me you're in Maine. With that backdrop, it's absolutely perfect for the summer months. Thank you, Alex. And now let me turn to an issue that has become a flashpoint in that Maine Senate race as well as more broadly, the Trump administration's continued immigration crackdown and the fallout after two men who were not the targets of enforcement operations were shot and killed by ICE agents in Maine and in Texas, both while in their cars. President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, saying ICE officers will now be required to wear body cameras during all vehicle stops, despite the administration rescinding a Biden era policy that had required them.
- [29:14]
Tom Homan
I'm a supporter of body cameras. You know, I know that body cameras exonerate officers almost 90% of the time. I want the American people to see where that ICE agencies. You know, you can have cell phone cameras from across the street or cameras from the side or city cameras. I want the American people to see what that ICE officer sees when he takes action.
- [29:36]
Meet the Press Host
That directive comes as NBC News has learned that the FBI will no longer investigate confrontations with ice, according to a memo from last week, leaving DHS to essentially investigate itself when it comes to these types of incidents. Despite the memo, the FBI and DHS deny that policy exists. And joining me now is NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainslie. And, Julia, you've been following this all so closely. And what do we know about how this memo was presented and how sort of leadership is saying, oh, no, that's not the case?
- [30:11]
Julia Ainslie
Well, we understand. And of course, our colleague Mike Kosner, who you work with, understands that the FBI and their field offices got a memo last week telling them that they would know longer be called in to investigate or even assist to investigate, as they were in this main shooting when an ICE officer is accused of using lethal force or even an assault. And so what happened when we went to DHS and DOJ on this just yesterday, they denied it in a joint statement, but the statement is very specific at the end. They say that DOJ can always prosecute if there is a criminal assault on the officer. But that's really not the question. That's not the issue at hand here. We want to know what is going to happen if an ICE officer is accused of assault. And so there's a lot of back and forth here waiting for an answer. But in the meantime, what we've learned is that Homeland Security Investigations would be doing that kind of investigation when an ICE officer is accused of assault or using lethal force. Homeland Security Investigations is part of ice. They have two branches, HSI and then ero. Those are the people you see out on the street. So it's really an agency investigating itself. I'm even asking now what will the role of the DHS inspector general be? They are the ones who are in charge of the investigation into those two incidents you mentioned.
- [31:27]
Meet the Press Host
And this kind of confusion follows the Mullen order to hold off on vehicle, put a pause on that. And then the president saying, no, keep going. So there have been mixed messages when you consider how FBI did have some role, although contentious one, and debated one in Minnesota with the deaths of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy with so what do you expect can happen now in terms of the ability to investigate these incidents when they happen?
- [31:55]
Julia Ainslie
Well, in those investigations, we learned just last week that the federal investigators, meaning the FBI, the Justice Department, handed over evidence to the state. That's a big win for Hennepin County. They want to be able to look at the interviews that were done right after those incidents that you mentioned in Minnesota. But what happens next in terms of the FBI's role? And of course it's been criticized, if they were blocking locals from investigating, investigating, what could they do next? But the FBI at least gave the appearance that there may be some kind of criminal action or justice for people if they were found to have committed a crime and used their force unlawfully.
- [32:35]
Meet the Press Host
And we see how in the political space there continues to be pressure from senators, not Republican senators, but Democrats and independents wanting to have reforms for ice. And that's playing out in real time as this is. All the enforcement measures are also happening.
- [32:49]
Julia Ainslie
Yeah, that's right. And it's really interesting with body cameras because President Biden started a pilot program for body cameras that Trump ended. Now they're bringing that back as if it's a brand new idea.
- [32:59]
Meet the Press Host
And do they have them? Are they available and ready to go?
- [33:03]
Julia Ainslie
We understand they're on their way and should be arriving within the next two months. But then you've got to roll them out, do the training, figure out how all that is stored and make sure they turn them on. It's not as easy as just putting it on a bottom.
- [33:13]
Meet the Press Host
We know you'll bring us the latest when you get it. Thank you, Julia. Up next, protecting the Vote. A former top official from the first Trump administration responds to the president's claims that his own team was suppressing information about the 2020 election he lost to Joe Biden. That interview is coming next. You're watching Meet the Press now,
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- [34:09]
Meet the Press Host
welcome back. President Trump is renewing his push for Congress to pass an elections overhaul bill ahead of the midterms, urging House Republicans today to unify and fight for his legislation even though it faces bipartisan opposition in the Senate. Now, this comes just days after the president used a primetime address to cast doubt on his 2020 election defeat despite vast evidence to the contrary. The president declassifying records he claims showed a conspiracy involving members of his own government to cover up, quote, shocking vulnerabilities in our election infrastructure. The president also accusing China of meddling in the election by acquiring U.S. voter registration files. Now, we should note that the documents do not back up the president's most aggressive claims, and in some cases they contradict them. And the voter files China obtained, that information is either public or readily available now. Joining me now is Ken Cuccinelli. He served as acting deputy secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the first Trump administration. He's now national chairman of the Election Transparency Initiative. We really appreciate you coming in because you have lived some of this. You're doing this work. And I wanted to get a sense from you. When you watched the president the other night, did Mr. Trump say anything that was new to you about the 2020 election or the effort to interfere in it?
- [35:41]
Ken Cuccinelli
Well, the most shocking things to me, and this is clearly my personal bias at the time. I was the deputy secretary at DHS. Throughout 2020, the intelligence community had a working group that met about every month or six weeks, so that the intelligence that was gathered about other countries, primarily China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran's efforts to interfere or influence our elections could be shared. And I looked at the documents myself, and there were things that other parts of the intel community had that they never shared with us, including the Chinese breaches, including the efforts to sort of keep this at a lower level within the intel community. That's what that working group was for. It was to act as a clearinghouse of this information, and it was not shared. And when I went into some of the documents made available after the President's speech, I saw CIA emails that confirmed this. Where you have a 2021 CIA email, for example, of an individual intra CIA saying, hey, why are the same people analyzing the same Chinese agencies, by which I just mean entities, performing similar behavior that they were last year? And last year they were saying this was not ascribable to the Chinese government and the Communist Party. And now they say it is. What has changed in that year? And then, of course, there are the FBI emails where they're a bit more explicit about keeping materials out of the pdb, the Presidential Daily Brief and so forth, which I also got. And so those were. It isn't just the President that gets that daily briefing. A lot of people in senior positions across the government get that daily briefing. But what's most sensitive is, of course, keeping information from the President. So there are things in here, and I would note Iran, for example, hacked Alaska's voter file, and we learned that by Iran trying to exploit it. And that was a big deal, and everyone recognized it as a big deal. I'm a little surprised to hear people playing down the notion that China may obtain access to voter files. And in some states, they're somewhat publicly available, but in other states, you have to sign contracts and do all sorts of other things to get them. Like my home state of Virginia. My home state is not a big deal. They can't exploit these files. It doesn't mean they can change votes.
- [38:26]
Meet the Press Host
That's the key thing. I think that you're right that there are probably many Americans. Yeah, many Americans may have been surprised to learn that China had access to this material, which can be purchased or obtained. But sort of the bottom line was, even though that is troubling for a variety of reasons, what the President's remarks and the documents do not show is that China was able to change any outcomes or affect votes themselves. So I want to. And I appreciate your pointing out the things that you found surprising because you were there at the time.
- [38:56]
Ken Cuccinelli
Yeah. Can I make 100,000 foot level point? So people need to remember we talk about elections and there's very good reasons we do that. But for Russia and China especially more so than any others, they use elections as a strategic opportunity to pit Americans against one another. We see it more clearly with the Russians than with the Chinese that they drive both sides of any particular issue, whether it's Ferguson, whether it's an election, whatever the issue, they want to inflame as many different sides as they can because they believe that Americans turning against Americans is very effective for them strategically. And sadly that's been true and all those countries continue to.
- [39:46]
Meet the Press Host
But we want to be clear about
- [39:47]
Ken Cuccinelli
that and these elections are part of that strategy.
- [39:51]
Meet the Press Host
Everything you're laying out there is accurate based on our reporting and understanding. The distinction is that those international efforts, primarily China, Russia, Iran, is about getting Americans to fight among themselves and to change voter behavior. But it is not about changing how individual Americans actually cast their votes. Therefore, it does not shed light on somehow 2020 was not won by Joe Biden. I think that's the distinction. It is certainly concerning and worthwhile information that are.
- [40:23]
Ken Cuccinelli
I don't think there was any assertion. I don't think there's any assertion of that. I think one of the documents.
- [40:29]
Meet the Press Host
Well, the President says it all the time.
- [40:31]
Ken Cuccinelli
He didn't in the primetime address the. The. One of the things that was in the release made a very simple point and it used to be one that was made more by Democrats until Trump came along. And that is that election machines are vulnerable. And for the. In the same way I talked about China and Russia using elections. Let's talk about election machines. They're just machines. They have software. Lots of things have software and software is hackable. Particularly in the age of artificial intelligence. We're seeing for instance anthropics, Mythos and really Fable 5 even able to exploit software of every kind. Whether it's word processing, election machines, it runs, the soda machine. They're all hackable to differing degrees. And until we re simplify and avoid those vulnerabilities, we are in fact vulnerable. Whether it's China, Russia or criminal agents. They do a lot of example, often state affiliated. Those vulnerabilities are real strong danger area that Americans should all that should all be focused on. And the Save America act is front is front side protection. It's. It's protecting.
- [41:56]
Meet the Press Host
Well, it doesn't really get any of those things.
- [41:58]
Ken Cuccinelli
That's about voter idea as opposed to the electronics. But let me ask you about this, and it's. But it protects the election. So. Yeah. So if you want to. If you want to ask me about something I'm an expert in. Yes, go ahead.
- [42:10]
Meet the Press Host
Yes, we appreciate your expertise and you're bringing a lot of facts to the table. But one question I have for you is, are you concerned that the President brought changes to the election security infrastructure by making cuts in those areas when what you're talking about is fortifying those election systems which are run by states across 8,000 voting areas in the United States. Are you concerned about changes he's made in the agencies that provide that kind of assistance?
- [42:41]
Ken Cuccinelli
So one of the things we saw with the rest of the documents released is that they weren't providing that assistance is that intelligence was known and not shared. The reason the Department of Homeland Security was part of this intel sharing group was because the Department of Homeland Security is the conduit to local offices, state and local offices, to share threats and to warn them. So because that information was not shared with the Department of homeland security in 2020, in turn, those states and local offices were not warned of the potential dangers, for instance, of the Chinese trying to get access to voter files. So when we have specific threat information, the more specific information you can provide to a local or state government, the more efficiently and effectively they can protect themselves. And that wasn't done in 2020. Was there harm from it or not? I don't know. I don't know that there was changing votes. Certainly doing influence was true. And the Chinese, we've always known, try to do this through journalism. One of the interesting things from Thursday night is that they were also trying to influence businesses in this regard.
- [43:59]
Meet the Press Host
We would love for you to come back because you have a lot of expertise in this area and you're right on the front lines with it. I thank you for your time. Appreciate the conversation. Ken Cuccinelli, thank you so much.
- [44:09]
Ken Cuccinelli
My pleasure.
- [44:10]
Meet the Press Host
And still to come, the fight for the future of the Democratic Party as two pillars of the progressive movement rally in Michigan for Senate candidate Abdul EL Sayed in one of the most important primary contests of the midterm season. Keep it right here on Meet the Press. Now. There is a very clear choice before us. We can choose $50 million and counting in dark money trying to buy the state of Michigan, or we can choose Dr. Abdul El Sayed.
- [44:55]
Ken Cuccinelli
This is an election between Abdul and the billionaire class.
- [45:04]
Meet the Press Host
Welcome back. You've been listening to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Senator Bernie Sanders, two of the Most prominent progressives in Congress rallying support for Senate candidate Abdul El Sayed over the weekend. Now El Sayed is live in a tough battle against the more moderate Congresswoman Haley Stevens heading into the August 4th democratic primary. Now this race has become one of the most closely watched of the midterm season and another key test for the Democratic establishment in a must win Senate race for Democrats. Joining me now is NBC News senior national political reporter Henry Gomez. And Henry, you were at the Detroit rally this weekend, part of a series that, that aoc, as she's commonly known and Senator Sanders did with El Sayed, take us inside. Describe the main message coming from these speakers.
- [45:53]
Henry Gomez
Well, Kelly, it was feisty, it was fiery. You know, oftentimes when you go to these political events, like take for instance a President Trump rally for a Senate candidate or a House candidate, you're taken by how many of the people there aren't there for the candidate that he's there to stump for. They're there for President Trump. I found the opposite in Detroit on Saturday night. These people were there just as much for Abdul Al Salad as they were for, for Bernie Sanders as they were for aoc. Now, now those two were of course main draws to get people to come and pack the Detroit Opera House on a, on a Saturday night in the middle of the summer. But I mean, these people were there, they were fired up for their candidate. They were there to hear the message. And you know, there was some anger as well. They're angry about the way things are going in Washington and they see El Said as, as a fighter that can, can shake things up a bit from the status quo.
- [46:42]
Meet the Press Host
Is the anti establishment message enough to resonate with voters in Michigan and around the country or are there more issues that go beyond just that sort of central animating force?
- [46:56]
Henry Gomez
Well, the big issue that's animating the Al Said side in this race right now is Israel and support for Israel. Haley Stevens is a staunch supporter of Israel. She says she believes in a two state solution. Abdul Alad has called what's happened in Gaza a genocide. And that has been something that has animated his supporters as well. Some of the sharpest lines of the night Saturday night, some of the things that drew the most applause were the lines about Israel and condemning Haley Stevens stance on it. It does seem to be what's a motivating factor for all said supporters. The question is, is that going to be enough to counter the tens of millions of dollars that are on the airwaves supporting Haley Stevens and attacking El Sayed?
- [47:39]
Meet the Press Host
And so much of that money has been driven in because of that issue that you just explained for us. Henry, thank you so much about that. We really appreciate it. Abdullah Sayed will join us here on the show tomorrow. So tune in for that. And now we're going to go from Michigan to South Carolina, where Senator Darlene Graham, who has just taken office, she's now made it official that she will in fact run in the special election primary to fill her late brother Senate seat.
- [48:06]
Darlene Graham
I have been crying a lot talking to my family, but with the love of my family, with the support of his staff, I know I'm a hard worker. I learned that from Lindsay. I feel like I can do it. I feel an inner peace about it. Will it be difficult? Yes, absolutely.
- [48:27]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
You're inclined to get in, or have
- [48:30]
Tom Homan
you even made a final decision?
- [48:32]
Darlene Graham
I've made a decision.
- [48:35]
Meet the Press Host
You're in.
- [48:36]
Darlene Graham
I'm in.
- [48:39]
Meet the Press Host
Well, Hannity needed to kind of goose that out of her there. We are joined now by our terrific panel. So today's panel includes Jeff Mason, White House correspondent for Bloomberg. We are also joined by Amisha Cross, Democratic strategist and former Obama campaign adviser. And Stephen Hayes, editor and CEO of the Dispatch and an NBC News contributor. Welcome to all of you. Glad to have you here at the table. I was a little surprised by that. That was the first time I saw that clip. She's had one of the worst weeks, so I'm gonna give her some space and some grace. She just lost her brother. She's now a US Senator, and she's made a big decision. How do you see this affecting a race that had not really been on the radar prior to Senator Graham's death?
- [49:22]
Jeff Mason
Certainly not. I mean, she scrambled a few things with that announcement. And she's got a few things in her corner. One, she's got President Trump. Big deal.
- [49:30]
Meet the Press Host
That's very big.
- [49:30]
Jeff Mason
And she's got her last name or at least part of her last name being the connection to her brother. And there's a nostalgia aspect to that. She no doubt will have some momentum. That said, there are others who wanted and are getting into that race. So it's not a sure thing. And I think people when she first took over for her brother saw her initially as a placeholder. And now that's not what she's doing. So it's fascinating.
- [49:55]
Meet the Press Host
Stephen, let me turn to you. The voters of South Carolina rarely get a chance to vote for an open Senate seat. Strom Thurmond was there forever. And of course, Senator Graham, the late Senator Graham held that seat for a long time. Is she the best candidate in this moment?
- [50:11]
Retired Colonel Steve Warren
Yeah.
- [50:11]
Stephen Hayes
I mean, I think that's a real question that Republicans are grappling with right now. As Jeff said, you know, people initially thought she was a placeholder because that's how she was portrayed.
- [50:20]
Meet the Press Host
Yes.
- [50:21]
Stephen Hayes
And now obviously she's in. The president endorsed her on Friday. What's interesting to me is you have a number of Republicans who are stepping in anyway. I mean, you know, there's all this conversation about whether Donald Trump is sort of losing his grip on the Republican Party. And you're seeing that, I think with some more independent minded Republicans, but not as much in a MAGA state, a red state like South Carolina. But I think the fact that you have somebody like Russell Frye, who's very close to the president, you know, was endorsed by the president before getting in three days after Donald Trump endorsed somebody else, I think it's notable, it's also worth noting that that Senate Majority Leader John Thune, when he was asked about this, did not endorse her, said, you know, we'll see. There are other people getting involved. She's a nice person. Sort of notable that he didn't jump
- [51:07]
Meet the Press Host
on board because it is a big race and a six year term is on the line. And I can imagine that's going to scramble a lot of things. Amisha, let me go to you because there was some talk when Senator Graham was in his last race and he had a formidable Democratic opponent. Is there any room in sort of the electorate there, which is deeply read, definitely aligned with the president? Is there any space for a Democrat to emerge if an unrelative unknown like Darlene Graham were the nominee of the Republican Party?
- [51:39]
Amisha Cross
Knowing the breakdown of the electorate in the great state of South Carolina, I believe we'll see Jesus walk on water a second time before that happens. Then.
- [51:47]
Meet the Press Host
A long shot, I take it.
- [51:48]
Amisha Cross
It's a long shot. I think that the bigger question is whether or not those same Republicans who are going to jump in before and many who now see this as a sign because Lindsey Graham has gone on to glory, see his sister as a formidable opponent. And I do think that it matters that for Donald Trump, this is the
- [52:04]
Meet the Press Host
Donald Trump of it all.
- [52:05]
Amisha Cross
When he came out and endorsed her, that was one thing to come out and also endorse her beyond the initial. She's going to essentially be a placeholder now on into a race. A lot of people are not necessarily backing down because of that. I don't think that that means that Donald Trump's grip is gone, quite frankly. It also means that her fundraising may be up in that case. But I do think that there is a lot of conversation that Republicans will be having. But in terms of the landscape being competitive for Democrats, I would argue South Carolina is and probably always will be fool's gold.
- [52:33]
Meet the Press Host
Well, we will, we'll mark you down as being forthright about that. Let me turn to Michigan, Jeff. When you look at the dynamics that we talked about a little bit in the earlier segment of El Sayed and the kind of groundswell around him and Haley Stevens who's trying to carve out a more moderate space and remember it's Mike Rogers, former member of Congress, former, I believe he was, FBI, formidable person. How do you see this playing out in these dynamics? Clearly a race to watch question is
- [53:06]
Jeff Mason
can a left leaning progressive win statewide?
- [53:10]
Julia Ainslie
Yes.
- [53:10]
Jeff Mason
And you've seen in a place like Michigan, we've obviously seen what's happened in New York, seeing what's happened in my home state of Colorado with the primaries. But, but Democrats have to decide if they want to take the Senate. Do they take it with someone or with a position that clearly has a lot of momentum nationally in terms of the left. But will it appeal to the broader moderate electorate in a state, in a swing state like Michigan? I don't have the answer to that, but that is the question that they are grappling with. And add to that the very interesting politics of Israel in Michigan, particularly with
- [53:49]
Meet the Press Host
the largest Middle Eastern American community outside of the region itself.
- [53:54]
Jeff Mason
There's a reason you're listening to Bernie Sanders and AOC talk about the money coming from aipac.
- [53:58]
Meet the Press Host
Yes.
- [53:58]
Jeff Mason
And that's it.
- [54:00]
Meet the Press Host
Aipec, of course, our audience knows it, but the big political action committee that supports Israel. So when you look at the Israel question and how it is playing out, is this a primarily Michigan storyline in terms of the election or is it broader for the party?
- [54:16]
Amisha Cross
I think it's 100% broader for the party just because of the sheer population size of those who are of Islamic background or who are connected to the region. In Michigan, obviously it was an issue before them, before it was an issue before the rest of the country. But since we entered into the war in Iran specifically, I think that we have seen polling tank for Republicans. We've also seen time and time again Americans, quite frankly, really upset. And in large part it's because of gas price increases, because of affordability concerns. But also as we continue to get more news, and I think you guys broke it a few days ago, when American soldiers die, especially in a war that Americans don't stand behind anyway, you're going to have a really tough time
- [54:56]
Meet the Press Host
on the campaign trail, and we don't really know yet that just is happening and we don't know how that will shape the landscape politically. But it will certainly be part of the conversation when we go back to Let me tap into your thoughts on Maine after we had a just briefly, were you surprised, Stephen, at Hautroy Jackson was able to get the that coalesce around him, the delegates?
- [55:18]
Stephen Hayes
You know, he's not the most eloquent candidate, but he certainly has unions behind him and they can organize. And I think that's what we saw over the weekend.
- [55:25]
Meet the Press Host
Quick was right what we needed there. Stephen, thank you, panel. The time is here. We've got to say thank you for today. There'll be more news right here on NBC News now.
- [55:35]
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