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Meet the Press NOW — July 30
00:49:54
Tensions build between President Trump and key Senate Republicans over the president’s agenda with less than 100 days to the midterms. The U.S. carries out a “heavy wave” of strikes on Iran after an attempted surprise attack on U.S. forces in the Middle East. Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate state Rep. Francesca Hong (D) joins Meet the Press NOW to react to Mandela Barnes suspending his campaign in the state’s closely watched primary race.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Welcome to Meet the Press. Now. I'm Kelly o' Donnell in Washington, where President Trump finds himself increasingly at odds with multiple Republican senators, including the Senate's Republican leader, publicly fighting over the President's agenda ahead of the midterms and putting his attorney general pick's confirmation in peril. The Senate Judiciary Committee was forced to delay a vote today to advance Todd Blanche's nomination to be Attorney General after Republican Senators Thom Tillis and John Cornyn, who are both leaving office when their terms expire. They're holding up the nomination over concerns about a deal Blanche cut to settle the President's lawsuit against the irs. That deal gave the President and his family businesses immunity from tax audits and created a so called anti weaponization fund that could compensate Trump allies. Cornyn and Tillis want the DOJ to commit in writing to change that settlement and not move forward with the fund. The president today lashing out at the two senators on social media, taking credit for ending their political careers and threatening to pull Blanche's nomination until after those senators leave office in January. Now, it's worth noting neither Tillis nor Cornyn have explicitly said they would vote against Blanche, but both have made clear they are holding out until their demands are met.
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Senator John Cornyn
It causes me concern if they don't want to put it in writing that this is not something that is going to be enforceable in the long term because as you know, people can change their mind later on whether it's to reconstitute the weaponization fund or that what they claim the limits are of the release, that now they take a different position in a court. If they don't come to terms with the resolution that Senator Tillis and I have requested, then I think he's not going to be confirmed at this point anytime soon.
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Senator Thom Tillis
Senator Tillis, are you just as dug in as John Cornyn is on this nomination?
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Kelly O'Donnell
Of course I dug in. I mean, what we are, are consistent.
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Senator Thom Tillis
What if they just wait you out?
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Ad Voice
What if they just wait until you leave office?
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Senator Thom Tillis
Hey, 158 days, they can try it
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Kelly O'Donnell
again, roll the dice on what the, what the Senate confirmat process looks like next year. It's all on him. Certainly within his authority to do that. Meanwhile, the president's relationship with Senate Majority Leader John Thune is increasingly on the rocks amid an intensifying standoff over the president's election overhaul bill. Look, we have to be able to get proof of citizenship when you vote. Otherwise we don't have elections. We have to be able to get voter id. So John is a leader and hopefully he can get the votes. Well, I would like them to get it passed. What I'd really like is for them to filibuster. Kill the filibuster. Terminate the filibuster. We've had to vote on the full
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Senator John Cornyn
Save America act twice that didn't even
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Kelly O'Donnell
get 50, let alone 60. Everybody call John Thune at the Senate, he's the leader of the Republican Party and tell him to get this stuff approved. Getting rid of the filibuster, non starter. You don't have the votes.
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Susan Page
Well, we don't.
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Kelly O'Donnell
And I, and I've actually told, I've had this conversation with the president many times. The votes aren't there to do it. I know he thinks he can persuade people, but there are a lot of folks who are very, this is a, this is a hard position for a lot of Senate Republicans. And do you think Senate Majority Leader
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Senator Thom Tillis
John Thune, after the comments you heard
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Kelly O'Donnell
regarding Save America and some other stuff,
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Francesca Hong
do you think he's still the man for the job?
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Kelly O'Donnell
Well, we're going to find out and
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Dan Delouse
I'll let you know.
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Senator Thom Tillis
All right.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Well, that's, that's nice of him, I guess. I don't know what you say on that. It's a, that's a decision made by my colleagues. The rifts between President Trump and Senate Republicans over both of these presidential priorities come fewer than 100 days to the midterms as the Republican Party hopes to overcome significant political headwinds on the Iran war, the economy in order to keep their majorities in Congress. So to talk about all of this, joining me now from the White House is NBC's Monica Alba. With me here on set, Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Serkin and senior justice reporter Ryan Reilly. So, Monica, let's start with you. We saw how threatening the threat from the president to simply hold off until Corn and Tillis are out of office. There are some concerns about that because that is a gamble. Who knows what the Senate will look like in January. So there's a risk there of not only them being gone, but others being concerned about voting for Blanche cuz the circumstances wouldn't change. What are you hearing there?
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Monica Alba
That's exactly right, Kelly. That is certainly something that could be a concern here. But it's sort of the way we read it and see this is this is President Trump kind of punting this problem for now because there isn't an easy solution to it, at least not in the immediate. And he is sort of arguing that he's willing to take that risk. And the fact that right now Todd Blanche is the acting attorney general means that he can continue in that position for a certain period of time. So what the White House is saying is they basically can keep it that way until December potentially. But then of course, as you pointed out, the outcome of the midterm elections could really change the likelihood of his confirmation one way or the other. And then at that point, there is a question about what the president would need to do in terms of nominating somebody new to the position to become the permanent attorney general. But this is a president, as you know, Kelly, that really enjoys having some of his top cabinet officials in this acting capacity. And there are some that he has kept kind of repeating in that way. And it's possible he could try to do that here with Acting Attorney General Blanche. But again, he'll confront the political reality and the reality of what he needs to do in terms of the permanent position a few months down the line.
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Kelly O'Donnell
And we're also tracking those tensions with the majority leader, John Thune, and that's over the Save America Act. We've heard the president calling for this for a very long time, wanting that done. And he's also been vague on whether he thinks Thune is the best person to lead the Republican conference. And that seems reflective of his frustration over all of this. What do you think the, the future of that relationship looks like?
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Monica Alba
Well, one potential insight into this is that White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles was spotted a meeting with Senator Thune just Yesterday. It's unclear what exactly they talked about, but it's hard to imagine that there wasn't some kind of discussion about some of the president's recent comments. And even the press secretary, Caroline Levitt, remember that she said that the president was losing patience with Senator Thune. And Thune shot back and said, okay, well then she should try to kind of come up with the votes here that simply do not exist for something like the Save America Act. So they had been trading those barbs back and forth. And so perhaps yesterday was a meeting to talk about some of that in person and see where there could be some room to work on some things that they do agree on. But Senator Thune has been crystal clear there that there just doesn't seem to be a support for that or for the filibuster issue that the president's been fixated on as well.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Kelly, sometimes the vote count is really just about the math. And he knows the math. One of the things that is striking about some of these issues that are really causing tensions, they're very much personal priorities for the president, things that he deeply wants more than broader issues that reflect sort of the interests of the larger party. When you're looking at the anti weaponization fund, the Save America act, the filibuster, how is that sort of casting a sort of Trump like shadow over the agenda ahead of the midterms?
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Monica Alba
And these are years long fixations in some cases. These are things that the president has really been obsessed with. And even if maybe some aides around him are trying to get him to focus on other topics, not necessarily abandon those completely, the president often returns to them. And so certainly when you're having a moment where the war against Iran is affecting the economy in the way that it is, there are certainly conversations inside the White House about trying to put that forward front and center and try to make that an issue that the White House is being out front on when it comes to affordability. But then the president comes out and dismisses that himself, saying that he doesn't really want to be talking about that. So then he often does revert to these other real passion projects that he is the one spending a ton of time on, even if they may not go anywhere.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Kelly, Monica, thank you for all those insights. Let me turn now to Julie and Ryan here in the studio with us. And Julie, when we're looking at where we are with the Blanche nomination, very clear, these two senators who have a vote on the committee, that's crucial, they don't seem to be budging and there are others in the party who may not be taking the hits publicly, but they share some of the same concerns. Is that your sense?
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Julie Serkin
This was my sense in talking to all these different lawmakers and sources today that maybe this is a strategy on the part of Cornyn and Tillis. Two lawmakers, two senators who aren't running again. Right. The President made sure of that. Maybe this is their opportunity to really hold the line in the sand and kind of give cover to the other opponents, Republican lawmakers. Because I have talked to a number of Republicans, including Senator John Curtis, for example, who met with Blanche over other concerns he had yesterday. Todd Young told me that it's a moot point to ask him what he thinks about Blanche because at this point he's not out of the committee. But all of this, at this point, Kelly, is still about Cornyn and Tillis. And we just got word that at least Cornyn had a pretty interesting and good meeting with Blanche this afternoon. We're out to Tillis to see if he met with him. But I want you to take a listen to what Cornyn had to tell us about the President's threats and what he wants out of this.
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Francesca Hong
Watch this.
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Senator John Cornyn
I don't know if it's just a negotiating technique on his part, but it doesn't really solve any problems because there's no guarantee he's going to have enough Republican votes in January to confirm him if he withdraws a nomination now. Well, until. Unless the weaponization fund and this other provision is put to bed, there's a lot more senators than just me and Tillis concerned about that.
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Julie Serkin
And Kelly, when I asked Cornyn about it this morning, he told me the President's comments that, oh, Cornyn's just doing this cuz he's mad at him. Those are erroneous. And it's a convenient excuse because both
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Kelly O'Donnell
men have talked about the principles behind this. They don't want taxpayer money used to compensate victims, the perceived victims or allies. And they're uncomfortable about the IRS settlement. So that certainly is part of it. Do you think this is different than the tensions with Thune?
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Julie Serkin
I certainly think it is. The tensions with Thune are so notable because if you cover him every day, right. This is somebody who's so poised you can't really tell all much that he's thinking. But in the case of the President and his jabs at him, most of those interactions we have are off camera because of where he is in the Capitol. The smile and smug laughter on his face every time has just been Growing exponentially. And so when it comes with Leader Thune, Republicans are the ones who vote for him in the Senate. It's a closed ballot process. And that's basically what Thune said. He said he doesn't vote in my election, which I thought was interesting. With Cornyn and Tillis. They're not running anymore. I mean, they're free. They're free. And as Senator Tillis told me a few months ago in our interview, it's a little different when you're free. Right. You get to say the things you're actually thinking and do the things that you actually want to do. And so I don't think they're going to let up that easily, but we'll see. What came of this meeting with Blanche
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Kelly O'Donnell
and Ryan, you and I cover the Justice Department, spend a lot of time dealing with things that Blanche is involved in. How do you view this and what are you learning from talking to people? That they expected this to go pretty smoothly and that he would be confirmed if not, or at least moved to the next phase today or maybe early next week. And that seems to be very, very up in the air.
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Senator Thom Tillis
Yeah. I mean, members of those that YOLO caucus. Right. Are the ones who are really sort of holding this up. It is really remarkable because I think, you know, they are worried about the value of that IRS essential agreement. Right. And they're also the weaponization fund is still this major thing. And there are other ways that potentially they could go forward still reimbursing individuals, even if they set aside that weaponization fund. There's this. There's just a procedure to do that anyway. And they also have been paying out to other Trump allies. And so I think they're, you know, getting this in writing in some fashion is something I think that has been a priority for members of the Senate there. But there's been this major hesitation to do that on the DOJ side. Just put anything further in writing. You know, they had this hearing. He said that, you know, they weren't moving forward with it, but they really have resisted putting it in writing. So I think that's.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Amy. And how notable is that to you in that Blanche said he was under oath and he repeatedly said the fund is not moving forward. And yet the language that these two senators want seems to be a bridge too far. Now, we also have to explain to people it's not just the Department of Justice, it is also the Trump family as plaintiffs, that their lawyers, separate private lawyers are also a part of this. But is this something where Blanche is up against his own boss, certainly.
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Senator Thom Tillis
And I think the language of that Trump post sort of lays that out that he was willing to just sort of say, hey, he can be in this acting capacity for a longer period of time. That's not, that's not that important to me. And I think you can sort of reading behind the leaves there. He would also have to kind of agree to this because he's the other party. And that's why judges and all these former judges have raised questions about the really unique situation that we find ourselves in here, where you have the executive controlling one side and the other side of this litigation. It's just a really unusual circumstance for sure, that has been playing out here.
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Kelly O'Donnell
And that's what makes it controversial. Do you get a sense when you hear the two senators saying somewhat complimentary things about Blanche that he's negotiating in good faith, he's having conversations? Do you get a sense that he has a strategy that is different than the president's?
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Brian Chung
I don't.
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Senator Thom Tillis
Yeah. I mean, he still has to get that all checked off because they do seem to be very willing to vote for him. As long as this is sort of signed off on. This is like the only thing holding it up. So it seems as though, you know, based on your reporting, it seems as though they're just kind of, what's the deal here? Why don't we just sort of move forward and get this written out in.
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Julie Serkin
And they keep saying they don't know who is in charge. That is preventing it from going forward. Even though you could guess who's in charge.
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Senator Thom Tillis
Yes.
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Kelly O'Donnell
They leave it open to people to maybe fill that gap with who might be in charge. We're watching this closely. If you get any updates while we're on the air, please let us know. Thank you both so much for being here. And we will be turning now from these domestic troubles to some conflicts overseas. The Pentagon announcing it completed a quote, heavy wave of strikes against Iran after its attempted attack on US Forces in the region. The renewed military activity breaking the days long pause in strikes between the US And Iran. Iran's Revolutionary Guard telling state media that, quote, the aggressor will be punished today. Meanwhile, sources tell NBC News the president erupted during a meeting last week with his top national security officials. Raising his voice, using expletives, a Trump ally also telling NBC News the president is, quote, exasperated by a lack of good options with the Iran war. White House press Secretary Caroline Levitt denying that characterization, saying the president did not lose his temper during the meeting. It all comes as Several new polls show a majority of Americans disapprove of the president's handling of the situation in Iran as the war now enters its sixth month. Joining me now is NBC News intelligence reporter Dan Delouse. Good to have you with us today. So when you are hearing this account of the president's mood and how the war is dragging on beyond his predictions initially a four to six weeks, how is the Pentagon grappling with that?
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Dan Delouse
I think it's a very difficult situation for the president, for the White House and for the Pentagon. And they really are struggling to figure out the way out of this maze because the Iranian regime has proven much more resilient and much more willing to resist kind of demands to capitulate. Now, a war that was supposed to last maybe four to five weeks, according to the president. We're now into the six month, Kelly, and I think they're struggling to find what are the options that will get the US out of that war in a satisfactory way. And the negotiations have sort of deadlocked at this point and the war itself is sort of entering a kind of dangerous deadlock as well where the US can't seem to find the upper hand. So that's where that frustration is probably coming from and how our colleagues are reporting that tense meeting last week.
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Kelly O'Donnell
And Dan, there, there have been reports out of Iran that they were making claims that the strikes they carried out had resulted in casualties on the US Side. The Pentagon has not been backing that up. Is there any more clarity on that picture?
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Dan Delouse
At the moment we don't have any reports of new casualties, but we do know that 18 US service members have been killed already in this war and hundreds have been wounded. There was that the Iran has sort of spread widened where it's attacking. So it started to attack the US Bases and forces in Jordan and caused casualties there, as you know. And now we have them. Iran attacking a tanker. A tanker is in Egypt. They're suspected of hitting commercial ships on Egypt. Egypt's port near the Suez Canal. That's a new development. So the more the war continues, there is this persistent risk for US Forces that are out there at all these bases that are being targeted across the region. And of course they're in the air and they're at sea as well.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Do you get a sense that when you're talking about the risk of it spilling into other nations, other nations involved? We've seen strikes that have affected the region. There's always the concern about the unexpected thing that triggers this really taking off in a new direction. We've seen that with certainly other conflicts. We have also seen the sustained nature of the war in Ukraine where different parts of that country have been pulled in. What is your sense about the risk there of it spilling into something even larger?
- [19:27]
Dan Delouse
I think that is really the concern now if you talk to governments in the Middle east and Europe. The real fear here, Kelly, is that the war then gains a kind of new momentum, kind of snowballs, where a war between the US And Iran becomes a war of many actors, a full blown regional war. You had Saudi Arabia yesterday joining the US in carrying out strikes against Iranian backed militia in Iraq. That was also a new development. And then we mentioned the strike there on the port in Egypt. And you see the possibility that it becomes even harder to negotiate an end if you have even more actors and a wider geographic area being affected. And then of course, the war is also strangely merging in some ways with the war in Ukraine because you have Russia about that.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Yes, yes. Russia launching a drone attack overnight and that that one missile crashed into Poland. That same idea of it spilling into a neighboring country. And what is NATO saying and do they have any plan to respond to this based on that alliance where if a NATO country is involved, others often are committed to come to their aid. What's the status there?
- [20:44]
Dan Delouse
So at the moment it's relatively calm. But again, this is a reminder of just how volatile and dangerous that war in Ukraine is and always has been. You have all those NATO countries bordering Ukraine and this missile fell into a farm field, luckily in Poland. And it was a Russian missile, Poland says. But Poland itself and NATO is not accusing of Russia of intentionally launching an attack on Poland. But it does raise this risk that you would have a mistake or a miscalculation and then another mistake or misinterpretation of what Russia or another adversary is doing. So a very, very kind of frightening reminder that there are incredibly high stakes there in Ukraine and that the longer that war drags on, the more you do have this risk of the alliance somehow being drawn in.
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Kelly O'Donnell
It's so perilous. Dan, thank you so much for sharing your expertise on all these topics. Really appreciate it. And coming up, it's on to the economy. New data from the Commerce Department shows US Economic growth unexpected slowing and prices just stubbornly rising. Plus, breaking news in the establishment versus progressive battle inside the Democratic Party as Wisconsin's Mandela Barnes suspends his campaign for governor. Now that could clear the field for the surging candidacy of democratic Socialist Francesca Hong, who will join us live. This will be her first interview since the news about Barnes broke. You're watching Meet THE Press now.
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Kelly O'Donnell
Welcome back. There are new concerns today about a potential slowdown of the U.S. economy. The Commerce Department reporting that the economy grew just one and a half percent in the second quarter of the year, slower than expected, and that core inflation, which excludes volatile costs for food and energy, remained elevated at 3.3% last month. The news comes a day after Fed Chair Kevin Warsh announced the central bank would keep key interest rates steady as tensions with Iran persist after President Trump announced new tariffs last week. So on Wall street today, stocks rallied after yesterday's sell off, all three major indices closing up more than 1% on the day. NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung joins me now. Good to see you, Brian. So help us understand this. GDP slowed, inflation remained high, yet the markets rallied after yesterday's tumultuous close. So help us to make sense of
- [25:08]
Brian Chung
that yeah, well, look, I think the bounce back is just the markets trying to reason with what was, quite frankly, a confusing. The Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, in his only second press conference since beginning his tenure after being appointed by Donald Trump to lead the central bank earlier this year. It was not a good day on Wall street yesterday. The Dow ended the day down over 2%. Some of that was because of what was going on with Meta Stock, but the other part of it was also just general confusion after the Fed decided to hold interest rates steady, but then said, we don't have anything to share with you about what their next moves are going to be. Kevin Warsh wants to do away with what they call forward guidance, which means that as we get even data like this morning, where you had less than expected growth in GDP, 1.5% compared to what economists were expecting, 1.8%. We don't know what the Fed is going to do with that because Kevin Warsh declined to say how they're thinking about the economy going forward from here. So that could be one sense why we will have this volatility for at least some time in the stock market and especially the bond market with the Federal Reserve under new leadership. Leadership and under a new regime.
- [26:12]
Kelly O'Donnell
So checking out some more data, the Commerce Department reported today that the gross domestic product slowed to just 1.5% in the second quarter. And what fueled that economic slowdown? And what does that look back about the past quarter tell us about the current state? What's happening right now in the economy?
- [26:30]
Brian Chung
Yeah, well, again, gdp for those that maybe don't understand the Alphabet soup of economic data, it's just a proxy for how much the economy grow by 1.5% was how much the economy grew at.
- [26:39]
Francesca Hong
At.
- [26:39]
Brian Chung
If you were to pace it out between March and June of this year, what was happening during that time? Of course, the breakout of the war with Iran. The Q1 numbers didn't fully reflect that. So this is kind of the first read through that some of the decline, or rather the, you know, short of expectations number that we got was because of reduced government spending, which the Trump administration might see as a win. But it was also because of more imports compared to exports. We imported a lot more into this country than we did exports, and that has the tendency to drag on GDP because of the way that it's accounting. That would not be a win for an administration that has been trying to boost U.S. exports and reduce imports. Now, a lot of that could be artificial intelligence investment. That is something that analysts have looked at. But of course, there's a lot going on in that and there's a lot of noise in that data, although consumer spending was still strong. But as we talked about this K shaped economy, it's what kind of consumer is driving that? Is that the wealthy that has a lot of money at the expense of the low income, that that's saving a lot more. That means that there's a lot more nuance to this data than initially thought off the top line.
- [27:39]
Kelly O'Donnell
Brian, thank you for helping us understand it. Always good to check in with you. And up next, we have some breaking news. The establishment Democratic candidate suspends his campaign for Wisconsin governor as Democratic socialist Francesca Hong surges in the polls. She joins us here first after the break. And you're watching MEET THE PRESS now.
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Kelly O'Donnell
wherever you download your podcasts. Welcome back. We're turning now to some breaking campaign news. A major shakeup in the closely watched Democratic gubernatorial race in Wisconsin where Mandela Barnes, the state's former lieutenant governor, just announced he is suspending his campaign ahead of the August 11th primary. The move comes as new polling shows 37 year old state representative and Democratic Socialist candidate Francesca Hong surging to the top of a crowded primary field over more establishment candidates. Joining me now is Francesca Hong and we are very pleased that you made time for us today. And obviously with this big change and the race you're competing in, I want to start with that opponent, Mandela Barnes is dropping out. What is your reaction? And are you seeking his endorsement.
- [30:10]
Francesca Hong
The Barnes campaign has run a progressive movement centered campaign. And our deepest respects to his campaign team and we look forward to continuing our grassroots organizing Forward campaign.
- [30:26]
Kelly O'Donnell
And are you going to seek his endorsement
- [30:30]
Francesca Hong
at this time? I am undecided.
- [30:34]
Kelly O'Donnell
Okay, let's move to the issue that is on the minds of many people. And we hear a lot about labels and we hear a lot about the progressive energy in the Democratic Party in a number of races. And some polls are saying that while you're surging in the primary, there may be some information when you look at other surveys about that label Democratic Socialist attached to your name and your vision that that could be a problem for. So what would you say to voters in Wisconsin, a state that sometimes votes Republican, sometimes votes more to the left? How are you going to address that?
- [31:10]
Francesca Hong
We have built a statewide coalition with voters in every corner of Wisconsin. Independents, moderates, Republicans, Democrats who are with us on the issues. I am focused on ensuring that we are an administration that is focused on delivering for working class Wisconsinites, not on the label. And whether it comes to a moratorium on data centers, raising the minimum wage, ensuring that we're investing in our public schools and taxing the wealthiest and mega corporations, ours is a campaign that continues to run on the important issues impacting Wisconsinites every day.
- [31:48]
Kelly O'Donnell
And defining yourself for voters in your home state is certainly critical. The National DSA has recently passed a platform that, including things like abolishing the Senate prisons and ice. You say that you don't agree with some parts of their national platform. Are you trying to have it both ways by embracing that label but also backing away from some aspects of the platform?
- [32:13]
Francesca Hong
So I do not have the endorsement from the national dsa. And this recent platform that was released, there are issues that I disagree on, but my values and my principles are rooted in democracy in and fairness in human rights and ensuring that we are fixing a rape system that doesn't put working class people first. And we are a campaign focused on the work and the workers.
- [32:39]
Kelly O'Donnell
So you may distance yourself from the national party, but you do consider yourself a Democratic socialist, right?
- [32:47]
Francesca Hong
Yes, because it allows me to make sure that the policies that we are supporting, the universal policies that will build permanent affordability, universal child care, paid leave for all, investing in that care economy with minimum wage and raising that minimum wage and strengthening unions by repealing Act 10. These are policies that are rooted in democratic socialism, something that our state has a deep history in. And if you look at where sewer socialism was born in Milwaukee, this was a government that ensured people had everyday needs met and things like trash pickup to making sure that our packers are publicly owned NFL team. These are things that progressives and Wisconsin all across the state are proud of.
- [33:34]
Kelly O'Donnell
But you also have called for abolishing the police and ice. That's a piece of what that political ideology is about too, is it not?
- [33:44]
Francesca Hong
Well, ICE is a rogue agency and an enforcer of fascism. And I believe that it is an agency that indeed needs to be abolished. And I'm going to be a governor that is most serious about being serious about public safety, where we actually invest in our communities and we are tough on the causes in order to be tough on crime, preventing guns from being off the street, taking guns off the street, making sure we're investing in victim services and that people who are incarcerated or work in the prisons are able to work and live with dignity.
- [34:17]
Kelly O'Donnell
How would you describe yourself as being different from the views held by the Democratic Party?
- [34:25]
Francesca Hong
You know, I'm the only wage worker in the race, a single mom and proud daughter of immigrants. And I believe that relatability, that ability to have conversations with anyone and everyone. We're campaigning in dive bars and bowling alleys and making sure that working class people who are demanding a new politics knows that they have a fighter and someone who is fighting for them and alongside them in the, you know, work to actually build a government that is a force of good.
- [34:56]
Kelly O'Donnell
There has been a lot of talk this year across the country in really sort of assessing where is the Democratic Party in a year where Democrats may do well based on just the, the nature, the political moment? Do you think the Democratic brand is a good one or is it ready for some fixing?
- [35:16]
Francesca Hong
We're excited to help strengthen the Democratic Party by building the big tent that we know that we can be building durable Democratic power by fighting to make sure that we win the trifecta. By having a Democratic majority in both the assembly and the Senate and with the bold progressive governor, I believe that we can really do the good work in making sure that we're helping, helping working class folks improve the material conditions of their lives, whether it be with free childcare or making sure we've got fair taxes. We're investing in our rural roads and helping our farmers. These are all things that many of my Democratic colleagues and I have a shared interest in and being able to actually focus on improving lives. And I think that the Democratic brand or the party know I'm most interested in making sure that folks who are a part of that party know that we can do better and we will do better when we have a diverse coalition with that is multi generational, multi zip code and multi ethnic. And that is the coalition that our campaign is building. And I believe we've earned the excitement of voters who are often harder to reach people who may not have voted in 2024 or differently from the Democrats. And I think that's what's exciting right now is that this is a movement moment. And I believe that our campaign is meeting that moment and I'm the leader to meet that moment.
- [36:38]
Kelly O'Donnell
And your campaign, meaning the broad contest for those seeking the primary nomination is in some flux now. So let's go back to where we started. Mandela Barnes dropping out of the race. And you said to me that you weren't certain yet if you would seek his endorsement. Why is that?
- [36:55]
Francesca Hong
I think right now we want to focus on growing our volunteer community and the people who are organizing with us. I'm incredibly proud that this campaign has already knocked 100,000 doors, that we are hosting events that are fun and joyful and that engage people in being a part of building Democratic power here in our state. This is where our campaign will continue to focus on and make sure that we have the resources that we need to defeat Tom Tiffany, who is someone who supports an abortion ban, he's a pedophile protector, he is a traitor to this country by denying who won the 2020 election. And Wisconsinites deserve someone who's going to put Wisconsinites first and not Trump first. Mr. Mining is the weakest candidate the Republicans could put for and we are focused on making sure that we have a Democratic trifecta in the legislature as well as the governor's office. And we actually focus on delivering for Wisconsinites that we're putting them first.
- [37:52]
Kelly O'Donnell
So you're clearly distancing yourself against the lieutenant governor. How will you attract his voters?
- [38:00]
Francesca Hong
I think we will focus on welcoming everyone to our movement that our shared interest and shared values in moving the Democrats to a more progressive position, one that is built building that big 10th diverse coalition. And we are certain that many of the former lieutenant governor supporters share our values and the values of Wisconsinites, which is that we work hard, we hustle, we care about taking care of ourselves and our loved ones. And I plan to be the person who is going to out hustle folks in this race and make sure that Wisconsinites know they have someone who's going to work harder for them than any other governor.
- [38:39]
Kelly O'Donnell
Francesca Hong, thank you for making time to talk with us and to share your views today, especially on a pivotal day in the contest. We'll be watching your race closely.
- [38:49]
Francesca Hong
Thank you so much. Happy to be here.
- [38:51]
Kelly O'Donnell
Thank you so much. Still to come, tech billionaire Elon Musk is reportedly readying a massive investment to boost GOP turnout ahead of the midterms. We'll break that down with the panel. You're watching MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back to the table. And joining me now, the panel, Susan Page, Washington bureau chief at USA Today Joel Payne, Democratic strategist and Lonnie Chen fellow at the Hoover Institute and a contributor to Meet THE Press. Susan, I think all of you actually heard our interview with Francesca Hong in the segment before. What is your sense? This is a big day in that race. We've just learned that Mandela Barnes, a Democrat, was out of the race, suspending his campaign. She is a democratic socialist and is seeing an opportunity here. What's your sense of what to make of this?
- [39:48]
Susan Page
So she's been leading in the polls, but she hasn't been over 50%. And the more establishment Democrats had hoped that somebody else would emerge to challenge her. That latest figure may have hope was centered around Mandela Barnes, no longer around. So sure, her position has greatly improved. The primary is only, you know, a week and a half away. But Democrats across the country are very concerned about the rise of democratic socialist candidates in swing states like Wisconsin and Michigan, where Trump won. It's where Trump won. These are not places like New York City or Denver, Colorado, where these very liberal candidates have managed to show great strength. This is a quintessential central swing state.
- [40:32]
Kelly O'Donnell
And she'll Portland, rural voters, all of that, as well as, you know, big cities and college places.
- [40:37]
Susan Page
Can anyone get enough support to stop Francesca Hong? And that is not clear at this point.
- [40:42]
Kelly O'Donnell
So, gentlemen, when you look at this, Joel, let me start with you then. Is this moment an opportunity for her and are you seeing something in her candidacy that maybe we aren't frame back for a second?
- [40:52]
Willie Geist
There's been a lot of disruption in this race, not just today, in the last month. Sarah Rodriguez, who's the sitting lieutenant governor, was actually the kind of establishment choice until about a month ago when there was tumult within her campaign and she stepped aside. And then Mandela Barnes there has been for a pretty extended period of time. There have been some concerns that he may not be the right viable candidate and of course, he drops out today. So now the race is down to Francesca Hong and David Crowley, who had previously dropped out of the race and then jumped back in the race and now has the support of Governor E. I think to the point that Susan's making here. Democrats are in the midst of really starting to re understand their coalition. And I know by traditional standards this feels very uncomfortable and this feels very bumpy to a lot of Democrats. I think these are the types of discussions and the types of considerations and reconsiderations that have to happen in this era for Democratic politicians because the coalition did not feel like the status quo was working across the country, not just in New York, not just in Colorado, but in the heartland. And there will be difficult conversations and we might have some swings and misses on some candidates. But I do think this is a very necessary period for Democrats.
- [42:02]
Kelly O'Donnell
And Wisconsin's an interesting state because you have had Republicans win, you've had Democrats win controlling the state House. We saw President Trump do well there in this last election. What do you think Republicans are seeing when they see the change on the Democratic side and what it might do for this race?
- [42:19]
Joel Payne
I think Tom Tiffany is very excited by the prospect of running against Francesca Hong. The reality is energy is gonna meet gravity with this one. And what I mean by that is there is a lot of energy behind this more progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Obviously, if you look at the survey research, that's where you've got a lot of people who are very animated about the 26 election. And beyond the gravity reference is just her positions on some of these issues are so out of touch with so many people in Wisconsin. And it's not just about Wisconsin, it's more broadly. I think a lot of these positions around eliminating the police and bringing public financing to all these elements of life, these are not popular positions, and they certainly are not popular positions in a state like Wisconsin where President Trump's been very successful. And it's generally a pretty moderate state in a lot of ways, unless you think about Madison. But if you look at this, I think the challenge is really going to be, yes, she'll have a lot of energy behind her, but the positions are just so out of touch. I think it's going to be a problem.
- [43:15]
Susan Page
Well, you look at, we've seen a sea change from the days like three weeks ago when Democrats felt pretty confident they were looking at a really good midterm election. But you've had the rise of some of these very liberal candidates, very progressive candidates in more mainstream places. You've seen the huge money advantage that Republicans are going to have, including Elon Musk getting back into this in a big way. And you see the results of that aggressive redistricting over the past year that is going to help Republicans. It's probably going to help Republicans pick up at least a couple House seats. This is a different midterm election than we thought we were going to have.
- [43:50]
Kelly O'Donnell
Let me pick up on your reference to Elon Musk. We know that he spent like a quarter billion in 2024. Then he sort of backed away from politics, went back to his businesses for a bit. Now he's saying he wants to have impact in 2026. What kind of impact do you think he can have?
- [44:05]
Susan Page
Millions of dollars devoted, he says, to organizations. That frees up other money and other packs to be used on TV ads. You know, he is the largest single contributor. Contributor in a single cycle to political campaigns. From his 2024 record with supporting Donald Trump. This is like, you know, he's the richest guy in the world. He has.
- [44:28]
Kelly O'Donnell
I've heard that before. I think. I think he likes to mention that. Where do you think he would play?
- [44:33]
Joel Payne
Well, certainly the organization point is very important because then that does allow the campaign, for example, which gets a lower unit rate in television advertising, to drive a positive message and focus on, you know, elements that are positive to campaigns,
- [44:45]
Kelly O'Donnell
but also stuff of campaign.
- [44:47]
Joel Payne
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's important because, you know, resources get scarce as you go along. And so if you've got an outside force like Elon Musk coming in and saying, look, I'll take care of the organizing piece, the parties can take care of the their piece, and the campaigns can do theirs, that's a huge advantage to campaigns to be able to say, look, we have this air cover that's gonna be important for us as we go into the critical days of the election.
- [45:08]
Willie Geist
Elon Musk, you're right, he did spend a quarter of a billion dollars in 2024. Let's not forget in 2025, he spent a lot of money in Wisconsin and lots of lost a critical state Supreme Court race.
- [45:17]
Kelly O'Donnell
That's a good reminder.
- [45:18]
Willie Geist
And the point that I would make on top of that is you can't resource motivation. And that's the place where Republicans are struggling this cycle. Yes, they have a money advantage, and they may have an infrastructure advantage where they can invest, but their voters are demotivated by a president who's not focused on the things that they care about. And frankly, by a political environment that is not gonna. That is not built to turn them out even in good times. And. And so no matter how much money you have behind the Republican effort, they still have a motivation problem that they have to figure out.
- [45:49]
Kelly O'Donnell
Must be frustrated by the resource gap. Between the two parties?
- [45:53]
Willie Geist
I am. Can I add one other thing too? Just on this whole thing, we're talking about Wisconsin and you could even talk about Michigan. And El said Democrats are gonna have to get very comfortable with being uncomfortable about how these inter party fights are getting decided and what the coalition will look like going forward. This coalition is not going to be quite as dependent on the traditional Democratic constituencies as it has been in the past. And it's not going to look funny and it's going to look like a person like Tom Tiffany saying, oh, I'd rather face Francesca Hong. Until you get into a race with someone who can bring out a different part of the electorate. Democrats have been on the wrong side of that thinking. We want to face Donald Trump as opposed to facing Mitt Romney or John McCain. So I think that political conventional wisdom can change very quickly beneath our feet.
- [46:39]
Kelly O'Donnell
When you're touting being uncomfortable, that gets everybody excited. Right. President Trump has made Republicans uncomfortable by not focusing on issues that deal with the costs that people are bearing in their day to day lives. From gas to food to housing to health care. How much is he a real shadow in this race?
- [47:00]
Joel Payne
He's a massive figure. I mean, whether you like it or not, if you're a Republican, you're going to have to contend with the fact that the president defines the Republican Party. He defines people's impressions of the Republican Party. And I think for most candidates are probably a plus because you get the energy that comes with it. There are a few candidates where I think that distance is going to be important because they are in districts that are so marginal. Numbers are tough, really tough. Well, particularly with the Iran war, I think that has really exacerbated some of these challenges. So I don't think Republicans have much of a choice, frankly. I think the vast majority of Republican candidates are going to own the president and I think that they have to take the advantages and mitigate the disadvantages.
- [47:37]
Kelly O'Donnell
As we wrap this conversation up, what is your sense about how much much both parties need to either reassure or talk about election security?
- [47:45]
Susan Page
Yeah, we saw a Gallup poll out, I think just today that showed 2/3 of Americans are worried that there will be political pressure to change election results in November and that it shows a level of alarm that I don't think we've seen before.
- [47:59]
Kelly O'Donnell
Is that a whole nother thread?
- [48:01]
Willie Geist
I was just going to say one of the things that Republicans should really think about is they're pushing the SAVE Act. You are essentially programming your voters to think there is something wrong with the electoral SO system, which means that their bias is towards thinking that their vote either doesn't count or is not going to count it the way that they want. And I can tell you on the Democratic then maybe we worry about that type of apathy too. So I'd be very careful with programming that in voters.
- [48:22]
Joel Payne
And that's why the energy numbers that you referenced, the energy of the Republican electorate is not where probably we would like to see it going into the election at this point.
- [48:30]
Kelly O'Donnell
Well, so much to talk about. Thank you all for your insights. And we had some breaking news today, so it was interesting to chew on on that for a bit. Joel, Susan Lanhi, thank you so very much. Up next, when AI goes rogue. Policymakers and tech analysts are still racing to figure out exactly how it happened and how to stop it from happening again after OpenAI agents broke out of their testing environment without anyone noticing for days and hacked into another company. We'll tell you more about this. You're watching MEET THE Press now. We're glad you're back. We're learning new details about an incident that has alarmed the tech world after OpenAI, the artificial intelligence giant behind ChatGPT, disclosed that two of its advanced models escaped their testing environment, known as a sandbox, and hacked into another AI company's internal systems. Multiple investigations into the incident from OpenAI and the company that was breached now reveal that the incident was more severe than initially thought, with those rogue AI agents allowed to roam the Internet for days, compromising multiple accounts across multiple services. Now, this comes as OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has been meeting with lawmakers and top Trump administration officials about all of this this week and about AI regulation. Now, we wanna bring in someone who really understands this stuff because I certainly don't. This is Jared Perlow, who covers AI for NBC News. Thank goodness you are here to tell us what this all means. So I am sure I'm not the only one who is not well versed in this. So help us to know exactly what did these autonomous AI agents do?
- [50:20]
Ad Voice
Yeah, well, it sounds incredibly complicated, but it really boils down into a simple situation. So OpenAI was testing its latest model, its newest system that it hasn't publicly deployed yet. And as part of that testing, it gave that model a specific exam. It said, see if you can find the answers to these complicated questions. So what the system did is instead of calculating the answers on its own, it actually decided to try to escape its sandbox, that test environment, and hack into a separate AI company. As you said, that AI company had the answers to that original exam. So, as we now know, several days after the incident, incident, which happened a couple weeks ago, these systems were basically marauding on the Internet, the open Internet, which they were never supposed to have access to for several days. So not only hacking into this one additional AI company, but also infiltrating four other services, according to OpenAI and this other AI company that was hacked. So the analogy I basically give is if a student is supposed to take a test and instead of doing the test, goes through the teacher's drawers to find the answer key, that's basically what happened here. But of course, it's not a mischievous student, it's an AI system.
- [51:29]
Kelly O'Donnell
We could ground the student. I'm not sure what we could do for these AI agents. So how concerned should we be? I've got These flashbacks of the 80s movie War Games where the computers were deciding the fate without a human intervention. Should we be worried?
- [51:44]
Ad Voice
I think we should be. And I don't think this is a marketing ploy. This is an actual cybersecurity event that took place in the real world. And we actually saw the researchers who are designing these systems say and share with the world that they're worried about the systems they're designing as well. So over 1,000 researchers, scientists from the leading AI companies in America wrote this open letter two days ago saying that the federal government should get involved in this situation to help the industry create some sort of an off ramp. Because there's just mounting competition between companies in the US like OpenAI and Anthropic, but also internationally between the US and China. China. And they say that these sorts of race dynamics just don't lend themselves to a positive outcome here. So when the people building the systems say that they're concerned, I think we as a general public should also be pretty concerned.
- [52:29]
Kelly O'Donnell
That is a very big clue. So if these models roam the Internet for days, is it possible that we still haven't learned all of what they did during that period?
- [52:38]
Ad Voice
It is possible. So again, we started this saga knowing that the system hacked into just one company. That's now been expanded to four. Yesterday, when Sam Altman was on Capitol Hill, he told a gaggle of reporters that it's possible that the system actually hacked into more systems in other companies as well. We don't know. OpenAI is currently doing a forensic evaluation and investigation in partnership with some third party companies. They just announced that yesterday. Those investigations will hopefully be wrapped up in the next couple days, next couple of weeks, and we'll know then. I'M doing digging on my own side. And some of the people I'm talking to within these companies say that they're getting inbound interest from dozens of governments around the world.
- [53:20]
Kelly O'Donnell
Well, I so appreciate your knowledge on this. I know you've done a lot of work. You've been to China. There's a lot that you've learned. We'll watch for your report reporting. Thank you, Jared. Thank you for explaining this. I'm both comforted and nervous by by your expertise. Thank you so much. And we will be back tomorrow with more MEET THE PRESS now. But there is more news ahead right here on NBC News News now. Thanks for being with us.
- [53:49]
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