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Meet the Press
Meet the Press NOW — June 19
00:52:52
Vice President Vance postpones talks with Iran after Israel launches an assault on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon. Aziz Abu Sarah, a Palestinian activist, and Maoz Inon, an Israeli activist, turn their personal grief into message of peace in an NBC News Common Ground conversation. Americans across the country celebrate Juneteenth, which was designated as a federal holiday only five years ago.
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Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
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Commercial Disclaimer / Interviewer
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Welcome to MEET the press. Now I Melanie's Nona in Washington. And we begin with the deal between the US And Iran already hitting a roadblock. The next round of negotiations was supposed to already be underway, but is now on hold. Overnight, Vice President Vance abruptly canceled plans to go to Switzerland to meet with Iranian leaders. A White House spokesperson citing complicated logistics and saying, quote, we look forward to beginning technical talks as soon as possible. Today's talks were derailed after Israel launched a major assault at Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. Prime Minister Netanyahu claiming those strikes eliminated dozens of terrorists. The ongoing conflict between Israel and Iran's proxy Hezbollah in Lebanon has been a key step sticking point in the negotiations with Iran. Israel was not a part of the deal, but the first point of the memorandum of understanding is the end of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon. President Trump telling NBC's Gabe Gutierrez in a phone call this afternoon that he spoke with Israel earlier today and asked them to agree to a cease fire with Hezbollah. Both sides have now agreed to a renewed cease fire, but according to a source with knowledge of the intelligence assessments, US Spy agencies believe Israel will likely continue to launch attacks on Hezbollah in Lebanon, potentially jeopardizing the deal. Meanwhile, in a new interview with Axios, President Trump was asked what he learned about the limits of his power during this war with Iran. Here's what he said.
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Commercial Disclaimer / Interviewer
What have you learned about not just the exercise of power, but the limits on your power as a result of the conflict?
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President Trump
There are no limits. No limits. No, not. I haven't learned that lesson Yet I know there are, but you know there are no limits. We defeated them totally militarily.
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Commercial Disclaimer / Interviewer
However, beginning of conflict. You had talked you only wanted unconditional surrender and. Well, the MOU doesn't look like unconditional surrender.
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President Trump
Well, it really probably is unconditional surrender. Yes, I think so.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
The agreement does not explicitly require Iran's unconditional surrender, but it does require Iran to ensure passage through the Strait of Hormuz for 60 days in exchange for immediate sanctions relief and eventual access to billions in frozen assets. Iran also agrees it will not procure a nuclear weapon, a commitment they've repeatedly made, including during the 2015 negotiations that resulted in President Obama's Iran nuclear deal. The former president sitting down with NBC's Craig Melvin in a new interview and offering his assessment of the Trump administration's agreement.
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Interviewer
What do you make of what we
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
know about the deal so far?
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Former President Obama
I am very happy to see a ceasefire and I'm hopeful that it holds. We've now fought a war, spent billions and billions of dollars, put enormous strain on our military. A lot of people have died and it feels like we're back where we were before we started the war, except maybe a little bit worse off.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Joining me now is NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez. And NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley is in Tel Aviv. Thank you both so much for joining. Gabe, I want to start with you. What do we know about why the vice President's trip was canceled and is it already spelling bad news for this agreement?
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
Hey there, Mel. Well, you laid it out in your introduction. The White House saying that this was due to logistical considerations. But look, there were, there was a lot that was abrupt about this. The vice president was expected to head there on Friday. And all of a sudden plans change. And we learned a little bit more overnight when we saw that those attacks have continued fighting between Israel and Hezbollah. Now, Israel maintaining that it only fired on Hezbollah because the Iran backed militant group killed three Israeli, excuse me, four Israeli soldiers. But this was viewed as a violation of the ceasefire. And so there has been this back and forth in the overnight hours about what this all meant. Now, several hours later, according to a US Official, Israel and Hezbollah did enter into this cease fire. And I spoke with President Trump a little earlier today. The president saying that he did speak with Israel, although he dec to say whether he specifically spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But at this point, it's up in the air when Vice President Vance will go to Switzerland. The President told me that he did expect the Vice President to go at some point, but that his special envoy, Steve Witkoff would likely travel there first and Vance would go at some point later. But at this point it's lot is up in the air and we don't know when this 60 day window in fact will begin in earnest. The window technically has begun, but when these negotiators will sit down for the long, difficult work of trying to come to some sort of an agreement on these thorny issues that are still on the table now.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Yeah, a lot up in the air indeed. Gabe, we also heard the president say that he doesn't think there are any limits to his power even after this more than 100 day conflict with Iran. Do you get the sense that the president feels emboldened?
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
Well, look, I mean, President Trump, he likes taking a question like that from an interviewer. And you don't expect the president to say that he doesn't feel he has power. And you would think that's, that's not really his style to come back and say that. But look, the president does feel and is trying to sell this as a win, saying that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. Now, of course, we know that Iran had previously said that it wouldn't have a nuclear weapon even during the previous Obama administration era deal. But at this point the president in reality was looking, making some political calculation here. He has repeatedly said that the American people didn't have the appetite for a long war in Iran. So in some ways, while he feels he has no power, at the same way he feels constrained, at least at some, on some level. But when it comes to political pressures here. But certainly the president in he is speaking right now to at Joint Base Andrews. He's unveiling that new Qatari plane that cost him $400 million, but it was gifted by the Qatari royal. The president again touting what happened in Iran, arguing that it is a positive deal for the United States. And he seems to want to move on from all this, even though there's still a lot to discuss in this next 60 day window when as I said, they'll have to come to some sort of an agreement on these negotiations or kick the can down the road and extend this window even further.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Melissa, Gabe, stick with us for a little bit. But I do want to turn to Matt over in Israel. Matt, Israel and Hezbollah traded strikes overnight but now appear to have agreed to a cease fire. What's the latest?
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Matt Bradley (NBC International Correspondent)
Yeah, I mean that is something that we just heard this afternoon. It ended what could have been a deal breaker and has been in the past. This kind of fighting between Hezbollah and Lebanon has a habit, Hezbollah and Israel has a habit of really, really closing off the negotiations between Iran and the U.S. it looks like, because some pressure either from the U.S. or from somewhere was put to bear on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to ignore calls from his own cabinet demanding that he go after Hezbollah with everything Israel has. Instead, he came to this arrangement, though, after the Israelis had pummeled several positions with dozens of airstrikes throughout Lebanon. Now, whether or not this lasts, whether or not Israel holds its fire to placate a president and Vice President J.D. vance, who have been extreme critical over the past couple of days, well, only time will tell. And that reporting that you came up with that was told to NBC News that there is information among US Intelligence agencies that Israel might try to play the spoiler to this deal by going after Hezbollah in Lebanon. Well, that would just be Netanyahu bowing not just to his right wing flank, but also to the entire political class here in Israel who have been dismayed by this deal and want to see Hezbollah taken care of once and for all.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
And Matt, I want to play some of what the president and the vice president have been saying this past week.
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President Trump
I think they could do better with respect to Hezbollah. I'm not saying they shouldn't protect themselves. I'm saying when two drones are shot into the desert and drop harmlessly, you don't have to knock down buildings in Beirut. They could behave better and frankly, they could do a better job.
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Vice President Vance
What the president has grown frustrated sometimes is that we seem to be right on the cusp of a major breakthrough in the agreement. And then all of a sudden there's a major explosion that goes off in a civilian population center in Beirut and a lot of people who have nothing to do with Hezbollah lose their lives. That's not acceptable. That's the sort of thing that we've asked for, closer coordination so that we ensure it doesn't happen.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Matt, how much will the next 60 days of negotiations between the US and Iran rely on Israel and Hezbollah actually sticking to the ceasefire?
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Matt Bradley (NBC International Correspondent)
Well, that's unclear because the fact of the matter is we've seen the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah going on and it hasn't broken ceasefires in the past. What has broken ceasefires or what has ended moves toward negotiations are when the Israelis fire missiles with airstrikes at the southern suburb of Beirut, Lebanon's capital. That's the neighborhood of Dahia, which was a Hezbollah stronghold, or when Hezbollah fires missiles into northern Lebanon Neither of those events have happened here. So it might be one of the reasons why both sides were so swiftly able to step back from the brink. But if any of those things do happen, if the conflict escalates to that level, then Iran has already shown that they are more than capable and willing to fire missiles at Israel from Iran, renewing the very kind of conflict this whole ceasefire is trying to avoid.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Matt, thank you. For more on this, I'm joined now by Ernie Nose, former Energy Secretary during the Obama administration. He also was one of the lead negotiators for that 2015 Iran nuclear deal. Sir, thank you so much for joining us. Your perspective, so important right now. I want to start with this timeline. Vice President Vance confirmed that that 60 day period of talks between that began yesterday. The negotiations you took part in though, took almost two years. So is it even possible to reach a deal in just two months?
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Ernie Moniz (Former Energy Secretary)
Well, first of all, Mel, I think it's important to stress right at the beginning that the MOU that was signed is not really what I would call an Iran deal. It was a oil and commodities deal opening up Hormuz, principally because the economic pressures were getting to be very, very intense in the United States, in Iran, in Europe and elsewhere. So all very difficult issues with regard to Iran, the nuclear issues in particular, were just kicked down the road. They were punted. And in answer to your question, I do not see how it's possible to negotiate a whole set of very difficult questions in 60 days or even with some modest extension, unless, of course, the agreement is reached without the kind of specificity that we felt we needed in 2015. Because our, our mantra was don't trust and verify, namely statements, for example, the pledge to never acquire a nuclear weapon. Terrific. We, we welcome that statement, but we don't trust it. I mean, without the, the backup of, okay, how do you in fact block the possibility? How do you verify that they are following, following the agreement with, you know, complying? So there's a lot to do. Unless again, ambiguity is allowed to kind of be the style of the agreement. And if that's the case, I'm afraid the agreement, agreement is really not worth very much. History tells us that in dealing with Iran we need very specific agreements. That, that's why the agreement, by the way, in 2015 ran more than 150 pages. It was not based upon trust. It was a don't trust and verify agreement. And the verification was absolutely central and extraordinary. It went well beyond what any other country is committed to doing.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
I want to play for you Some of what Vice President Vance said yesterday when asked about why their deal will be better than the 2015 nuclear deal. Let's take a listen.
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Vice President Vance
The Obama nuclear deal allowed enrichment. Ours will not. The Obama deal allowed the accumulation of stockpiled weapons grade material. Ours is actually leading to the destruction of that stockpile of enriched material. So there are many differences. The Obama deal gave them over a billion dollars of American money. The this deal gives them $0 of American money. So a lot of substantive differences, but I think the most important differences are where we're coming at it from a position of strength and the fact that our Gulf coast partners love this deal.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Sir, what is your response to that? And do you think the Vice President is setting the bar perhaps too high when it comes to what the administration can actually get out of the Iranians?
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Ernie Moniz (Former Energy Secretary)
Well, first of all, every aspect of that comment has problems, shall we say? First, on the enrichment, it's important to that the objective that we had, that President Obama had and that President Trump has, the objective is no nuclear weapon in Iran. The objective is not no enrichment per se. No enrichment can be a very effective way of enforcing the idea that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. But there are other ways of doing that as well. And in fact, I think we demonstrated that in 2015. Now, whether this next negotiation can actually succeed with Iran zeroing out its enrichment activity remains to be seen. That's one of the very, very tough questions. I personally doubt very much that that will succeed. I note that if you go all the way back to 2003, the, the Europeans, the George W. Bush administration, they all tried to get no enrichment. It failed miserably that in 2015, we had to deal with 19,000 Iranian centrifuges. The second point about the weapons grade material, I just really don't understand. Our agreement was just the opposite. It had Iran confined for 15 years to 3.67%. To put that in context, that's a very, very low enrichment, lower than almost any enrichment you'll find in a nuclear power plant today. Whereas once the United States withdrew from the agreement, now over the last years, Iran has in fact accumulated nearly half a ton of 60% enriched uranium. Let's put that in context. 60% enriched uranium is directly usable in a nuclear bomb. So the withdrawal, quite the contrary, gave them that. And now our task is to roll it back. And we must roll it back. That, to me, is one of the highest priorities. In terms of the finances, that one plus billion dollars that went back to Iran, it was not American money. In the sense that that was money Iran had paid for weapons purchases which we declined to send to them after the revolution. So they had paid that money to the United States for something that wasn't delivered. In this case, the vice president, I think will be correct that there will be not direct funding, but the amount of funds being freed up according to the MoU once an agreement is reached, makes a billion dollars pale in comparison, much, much more funding. And secondly, there is also the commitment to the $300 billion somewhat undefined reconstruction fund, which was never part of the agreement in 2015. So I really just don't understand any of those statements. They conflict in my view, with the reality.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
And just to wrap up here, what will you be looking for as we go forward with these 60 day negotiations?
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Ernie Moniz (Former Energy Secretary)
Well, on the, on the nuclear side, we've already said, I think the number, the first two essential tasks are find out where is the 60% enriched uranium, what condition is it in, what risk does it pose and how do we eliminate that risk with verification. Iran has to cooperate, operate actively for that to succeed. And so that should be tested right up front. Number two, the most important part of the previous agreement, we've always said, we said it in 2015 and we've said it consistently since, is the extraordinary verification measures. To be clear, Iran agreed in 2015 to verification measures that are imposed on no other country. We must find out very early in the negotiation are they willing to submit once again to extraordinary verification measures or not. For example, the vice president talked about the no enrichment commitment. And again, I would love to see that happen. I'm suspicious, but I'd love to see it happen. However, if Iran agrees to no enrichment, and imagine they do, but they don't agree to verification measures that allow the international inspectors to go to suspected covert sites, the agreement is worthless because what are they doing away from the inspectors? So that's an example of how these things are linked. And that's just on the nuclear side. There are many, many other important questions to be resolved. As you've already emphasized and your colleagues emphasized, we have no idea how these Lebanon restrictions are going to be imposed. Other countries, European countries, for example, have made it very clear there will not be a fee for going, sending ships through Hormuz. Well, if you look at the mou, it's practically an invitation to have some sort of fee imposed after 60 days. We could go on. There are many, many unresolved questions even beyond the nuclear issue that put this agreement in the long term at great risk.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Well, Secretary Moniz, we appreciate your perspective. Thank you.
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Ernie Moniz (Former Energy Secretary)
Thank you.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Gabe Gutierrez is still with us over at the White House. And Gabe, I want to turn back to you on another developing story over there, and that is the increasingly frayed relationship between the president and the Italian prime minister, Giorgio Maloney, that's Italy's foreign minister now also canceling a visit to the US after comments President Trump made to an Italian TV channel. Walk us through what happened there.
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
Well, look, it has turned into quite the international incident. And this all stems from an interview that President Trump did with an Italian media outlet where he reportedly said that the prime minister of Italy, Giorgio Maloney, had begged for a photo with the president over at the G7 summit. Now, the Italian foreign minister has since canceled a planned trip to the United States and Meloni is firing back and she's saying, quote, I don't know why the president of the United States behaves this way with his own allies. It's not, after all, the first time this has happened. I can only say it's a shame he does not show the same determination with the enemies of the west, with the enemies of the United States. Now, she said that what the president said to that Italian reporter that she had begged for a photo, she denied that ever happened. Now, I spoke with the president earlier today and I asked him about this incident. He doubled down. He said that she did ask him for a photo and then he went on to say she was a big fan of him, of the president. They've previously been allies, but I don't want her as a fan because she was not there along with the NATO group, group having to do with the strait. Essentially the president arguing that she and other European allies, he still resents that they didn't take a bigger role or offer to help reopen the Strait of Hormuz. And in this particular case, in my conversation with him, he fired back at her and said that he doesn't want her as a friend or an ally.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Now, great work with that interview. I do also want to ask about a major domestic update. That's acting Director of National Intelligence Bill Pulte. He has his first day on the job today after Trump delayed the confirmation of Jay Clayton for the full time role. Gabe, why is the president so insistent on having Pulte in this acting role?
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
Look, this is puzzling a lot of Republicans on the Hill, as you know, this week, the president telling them to put a hold on Clinton's nomination and his confirmation hearing in order to have Bill Pulte in this job taking office today now, the president had told the Wall Street Journal several weeks ago that he wanted Bill Pulte to fire a lot of people. And that appears to be something that the president is intent on. Bill Pulte, of course, critics say he has little to no national security experience, that he was overseeing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And federal housing official. The president says that he does have the qualifications for this one role. Again, many critics, including Republicans, are skeptical. But he is seen as a Trump loyalist here. And at this point, the president appears to want him in this job, at least for a short period of time until he says that they can get someone else to replace Jay Clayton over at the Southern District of New York. But that appears to be a stall tactic to at least get Bill Pulte in this job for a couple of weeks, in his words, the president's words, a few weeks ago, to fire a lot of people, potentially downsize that agency now.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Quite the saga. Gabe Gutierrez, thank you. Coming up, lessons in war. The panel joins me next to dig into the President Trump's views on power after he told Axios there are, quote, no limits on his authority. Plus, there is something in the water. An update on the growing problems plaguing President Trump's reflecting pool renovation. You're watching MEET THE Press now.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Welcome back. Joining me now is our terrific past. Nicholas Wu, congressional reporter for Semaphore Megan Hayes, former special assistant to President Biden and Republican strategist Matt Gorman, he is also an NBC News contributor. Thank you all so much for joining. Happy Friday. We have a lot to dig into. But Nick, I want to start with that Axios interview that we referenced at the top of the show responding to a question about what he's learned about the limits of his power. Let's play that moment.
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Commercial Disclaimer / Interviewer
What have you learned about not just the exercise of power, but the limits on your power as a result of the conflict?
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President Trump
There are no limits.
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Commercial Disclaimer / Interviewer
No limits.
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President Trump
No, not. I haven't learned that lesson yet. I know there are, but you know, there are no limits. We defeated them totally militarily.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Now, Nick, is that statement at odds with reality, especially given the fact that he is agreeing to an agreement with Iran?
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Nicholas Wu (Congressional Reporter)
Very much so. I mean, right this week we've seen very much the limits of the president's power, whether it's the, you know, the emerging deal that's coming with Iran or the, the revolt in many ways among Capitol Hill Republicans against his agenda, whether, you know, with the director of national intelligence and, you know, the, the pushback against the slush fund on Capitol Hill. It's been, you know, very much an exercise in restraint.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Yeah, that's a really great point, Matt, picking up on that, how much do you think that Trump's response there was more about how he sort of broadly views lose his power? And do you think Republicans are comfortable with that level of executive power?
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Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
Well, for this way we've known for what, 10 years in a political sense, do we expect him to say anything different? Do we expect him to go into in depth analysis of the limits of checks and balances on his power or is he going to say exactly what he said before? I don't expect anything less. We know what his limits are, of course, the markets and gas price and the Constitution, to say nothing of that. But look, I don't expect him to be suddenly have a very nuanced answer about that, especially when Iran intensibly is one of the audiences he's talking to. But I think also to Nick's point, what we've seen this week is if you try and put Trump in a box, he's going to try his best to blow up the box. I don't mean that metaphorically, but also if you're an Iranian military leader, maybe literally too. But again, I wouldn't expect anything different. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
And Meghan, what can Democrats do to provide a check on the president? Obviously we saw one of those war power resolutions pass, but what else can they do?
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Megan Hayes (Former Special Assistant to President Biden, Democrat Strategist)
I think they are going to run ads and all they can do really is they can prepare for the midterms. And all these things are going to come home to roost for the Republicans in Congress who are not actually doing their check on the Trump, on Trump's power. But Democrats don't have a lot of power when they don't have any power right now. So Trump, his power really is limitless when Congress won't check him.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
And speaking of the midterms, Matt, do you think it's a double edged sword here for Republicans who are on the one hand relieved that this war is over, especially as get close closer to the midterms versus some of them who are really unhappy with the terms of this deal?
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Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
Look, I think part of that I actually believe is just simply the tensions between the White House and the Senate which are very real at this point. But I think too the White House and folks I've talked to close there believe that ending this war, this deal and is going to be politically popular, especially with the downstream effects, lower gas prices and more of the normality we had earlier this year was just when it came to gas price. He was touting that and it's not State of the Union come to pass. And they believe that folks that are skeptical on the Hill are going to be able to take credit for the downstream effects and enjoy the fruits of that.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
We shall see. Staying on the topic of the midterms though, Nick, there is a new ad out from a Susan Collins aligned PAC hitting her Democratic opponent Graham Platner. I want to play some of that ad.
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Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
I respect Graham Platner service but he doesn't respect ours.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Platner falsely accused a military hero of war crimes.
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Ernie Moniz (Former Energy Secretary)
He said a Purple heart recipient didn't deserve to live after being shot trying to save his own troops.
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Aziz Abu Sara (Palestinian Peace Activist)
And Platner blames his Nazi tattoo on military culture.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
That's insulting. And this is actually the third type of ad we've seen from this pac very similarly hitting him on some of his past controversial statements that he said on Reddit. Do you think these types of negative ads tend to be effective?
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Nicholas Wu (Congressional Reporter)
Well, it remains to be seen how effective they'll be in Maine. I mean we got to remember that the last time Susan Collins felt faced a competitive opponent, Sarah Gideon In 2020, Democrats dumped millions of dollars of negative advertising against her onto the airwaves and that and she won by a very hefty margin. And so the question is now whether it was something like this. We've reached Almost a saturation point. Voters might know, you know, all these negatives about him. And, you know, there's some parallels in the way that voters bake in a lot of those concerns in voting for Trump. Right. They know that there are all these controversial things that have been said, and yet they might decide to vote for him anyway in the. And because he's a Democrat.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
And how much do you think Susan Collins herself is going to lean into some of these attacks? Or do you think she will let people like the President and these outside groups do that sort of attacking for her?
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Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
I think both. She's been a little bit more reserved so far, letting the SUPAC lead the way. But again, you know, she didn't beat Sarah Gideon by being, you know, a little drinking violent. I don't think she'll be in this case either. But again, we haven't. I don't think we've reached saturation point yet. I think the reason they're going out with something like this now is to define him relatively early, before it gets to be October or September, when there's tens of millions of dollars of ads across Maine and all across the country doing it now. Letting it set in, I think helps.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
You know, up until this point, Democrats have really thrown up their hands at a lot of these controversies. But do you think that is enough to just put it on Maine voters, or do you think Democrats need to be out there more defending Platner?
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Megan Hayes (Former Special Assistant to President Biden, Democrat Strategist)
Oh, I don't think Democrats should be defending Platner. You are sacrificing Democrats across the country come 28, because you are now saying you don't believe women and you think that these things are okay for a seat in Maine, that we don't need to have to do the majority, we can win the majority. There's other paths there. So start investing in Ohio and Iowa, North Carolina and Texas and let the Maine race go by its side because you are losing those moderate voters that you're going to need to win in 28. And I just worry that these. There's a huge gender divide with the men in Congress sticking by him and the women not. And women who are moderate in Pennsylvania and in Wisconsin are seeing that and they're taking note and they will remember in 28.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
Do you think Democrats, especially the leadership, actually will try to pivot to some of these theoretically tougher states and cut off Maine?
- [32:09]
Megan Hayes (Former Special Assistant to President Biden, Democrat Strategist)
I don't think they'll cut off Maine, but I think that they've already seen them doing that. This was not Chuck Schumer's choice. I don't think he wants to throw a bunch of money behind this. But I also think this ad is interesting that it is targeting men and not targeting women because Susan Collins isn't super popular with women in Maine because of Roe. So I just, just there's a lot of dynamics in this race that a lot of money is going to be spent, but Democrats would be wise to spend it elsewhere if they want to win the majority.
- [32:30]
Melanie Nona (Host)
And Matt, there is a real anti incumbency theme that we're seeing not just in Maine but in other countries states as well. How concerned do you think Republicans should be about that?
- [32:41]
Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
I think it plays more so when you're seeing people in Washington run usually state races against outsider cancer. Silas in one of the Dakotas, I believe, Dusty Johnson we saw in Iowa. It's not a great track record of a truck trying to leave Congress and do something in your state like run for statewide office. I will also say to Megan's point, we went through this as a party as well where you have winnable Senate race that you just botch. You put candidates up in races that you should be competitive, maybe even win. And certainly Maine, I'm also watching Michigan with Abdul said that could be another one where you leave points on the board essentially because you just nominate really unelectable candidates in swing states.
- [33:15]
Melanie Nona (Host)
I also want to turn to this other story, news out of the Lackland Air Force Base, Nick, where at least 160 people have become sick after a flu outbreak. And it came after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced in April that troops wouldn't be required to be vaccinated for the flu. Now, to be clear, we don't know how many of these people who got sick were not vaccinated. But just in general, how much do you think this incident is going to bring the administration's position on vaccines back to the forefront?
- [33:42]
Nicholas Wu (Congressional Reporter)
It very well might. And there's certainly a lot of risk to putting the administration on the defensive on this issue. That, you know, is of course a big priority for folks like hexag like RFK Jr. But you know, for the general election, perhaps more moderate voter might end up blanching a little bit seeing any kind of pushback against vaccines, especially something with the flu vaccine that folks get every year.
- [34:03]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Well, speaking of RFK Jr. They are planning to put him out on the midterm campaign trail this year. He has been a strong proponent of going against vaccine mandates. Mandates mega. And how much do you think that could become an issue in the midterms?
- [34:16]
Megan Hayes (Former Special Assistant to President Biden, Democrat Strategist)
Oh, I think it's a huge issue. He should go down to Texas where Texas is last in health care and have the least amount of children registered. And these MAHA moms are now going for Gina Hinojosa for governor and will go for James Talarico because of some of these policies. So if he wants to campaign for in Texas, he should feel free.
- [34:29]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Matt, what do you think of that?
- [34:30]
Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
Well, look, I think it also underscores how much the medical community lost credibility of the last six years. I think vaccine mandates, again, we're not talking, we're talking about the flu. And again, in most cases, we people will be fine afterwards. It can take, it can be treated. And most workplaces don't mandate a flu vaccine. So again, I think it's very different. I think this is again, a downstream
- [34:47]
Melanie Nona (Host)
effect is the military. It's military readiness.
- [34:49]
Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
Right.
- [34:49]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Like true, true.
- [34:51]
Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
But again, it's also it's rarely aside from first responders, which again, you can quantify. We have the debate military qualifies as that. But again, most flu vaccines are not mandated for workplaces. And again, I think there's a downstream effect of how Covid lost the trust and credibility of a ton of respondents, regular folks, especially when it comes to mandating vaccines in workplaces.
- [35:11]
Melanie Nona (Host)
All right, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you for an excellent conversation, Nick, Matt and Meghan. We've got an update now, though, on the growing problems surrounding President Trump's efforts to revitalize Washington, D.C. ahead of the country's 250th birthday next month. One of those projects, the iconic reflecting pool at the National Mall, reopened last week following a more than $14 million renovation project effect. The overhaul was aimed at fixing leaks and ridding the pool of persistent algae growth. It also included painting the floor of the pool a color that the president proudly calls American Flag blue. But just after a few days after opening, the pool became noticeably green with algae growth. The administration said it was working to remove the algae, dumping hydrogen peroxide into the water and using ozone impregnated nanobubbles. Yesterday morning, the Interior Department posted to acts that the water was, quote, crystal clear. But when NBC News paid a visit to the reflecting pool just this afternoon, the water remained green. National Park Service workers were seen vacuuming what the Interior Department says is the remnants of dead algae. Meanwhile, that American Flag blue plate paint that the president touted, it is visibly peeling from the bottom of the pool. NBC's Gary Grumbach went to the National Mall to check it out.
- [36:29]
Gary Grumbach (NBC Reporter)
I want to show you into the water. What this is actually happening. You see that some of the bottom is actually peeling up of the reflecting pool. So this American flag blue is peeling up off the ground of the pool and just sitting in the water. So instead of American flag blue, what you've got here is algae green.
- [36:48]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Our thanks there to Gary Grumbach, always willing to go the extra mile to get the story. Up next, we're celebrating Juneteenth, the country's youngest national holiday, at the country's oldest independent black history museum. We're live in Chicago at the annual celebration of black culture and freedom. You're watching Meet the Press.
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Melanie Nona (Host)
welcome back. Across the country today, Americans are celebrating Juneteenth with parties, parades, concerts. The holiday commemorates the end of slavery, marking the day the last enslaved people in the United States learned they were free. And while Juneteenth has been celebrated in the black community for generations. This is just the fifth year since it became a federal holiday. This Juneteenth. Juneteenth comes a day after the celebration of the opening of the Obama Presidential center, which celebrates the nation's first African American president. But it also comes as the nationwide redistricting war threatens to erode African American representation in Congress. NBC News correspondent Shaq Brewster joins me now reporting from the greatest city in the world. Shaq, you spoke to some folks there in Chicago who are celebrating the holiday Juneteenth today. What do they tell you about the significance of this day?
- [39:46]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
You know, a lot of people say it's very significant for them. And you find that a lot of people celebrate it in different ways. This is one of the festivals that city of Chicago has every single year. You see some of the people behind me. This is one of the food stands. This is just one of the small areas, though, that they have. There's music, there's dancing, there's vendors of black owned businesses. A true celebration of community. But something that you're also hearing today is a lot of reflection. People saying that this is a time to think about not just where we have come as a country, but where we should be going as a country. And I want you to listen to some of those conversations.
- [40:22]
Juneteenth Participant 1
We got a long way to go. I mean, we're free. In 1865, you still see racism in different parts of UC, still see it here in Chicago. It's still kind of like segregated. We still got a long way to go. But I think we, we can get there if we come together as one.
- [40:39]
Interviewer
Freedom is being free of the need to be free. And if we say still have a need to be free, then we're not free. And the way that things are going right now, while there's been a lot of progress over the decades, the fact of the matter is we still got a ways to go.
- [40:57]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
Melanie, one thing that I hear every year I come to this event is there's somewhat of a divide in how people celebrate this holiday and how they have been celebrating this. For some, they've been celebrating it for generations. They've known about it growing up for others, because it became a federal holiday. That's how it got on their radar. And now they find themselves newly celebrating this and still appreciating the history that it reflects. I think that's something you're continuing to hear, and it's an impact of it becoming that federal holiday that people can enjoy.
- [41:27]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Well, Shaq, speaking of this becoming a new holiday. It is now only five years that it's been a federal holiday. How do most Americans feel about race relations overall?
- [41:38]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
Yeah, we just got some new numbers and new NBC News poll. Let's pull them up. Because bottom line is Americans are split on. When asked how you feel about race relations, you have about 48% saying that they either feel very or fairly good, 50% saying fairly or very bad.
- [41:56]
Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
But look at this.
- [41:57]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
When you break it down by race among African American adults, you have about two thirds, two out of every three adults, saying that they feel either fairly or very bad about race relations. And the thing here, Melanie, is that when you put this in context, that number is actually the lowest that it's been since 2014. So these are numbers that are trending in the right direction. But I think you even hear it in some of the conversations that we just played. There's a feeling that there's still so much further we have to go as a country.
- [42:29]
Melanie Nona (Host)
And Shaq, do the people that you spoke to today appear to agree with those poll numbers?
- [42:35]
Matt Gorman (NBC Contributor, Republican Strategist)
Yeah, they do.
- [42:36]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
I think it's pretty consistent in the conversations that I've been having. I think one thing that I caught is that some people are connecting the celebration, the expanding celebrations that we've been seeing for Juneteenth to the feeling that they have about race relations. Listen to one of the conversations I had.
- [42:54]
Juneteenth Participant 2
I think since they made Juneteenth a federal holiday, it has become a little more bigger. It was mainly celebrated in the south, but now it's celebrated literally everywhere. Now everybody is doing something around the world for Juneteenth. So I think the racial part of it is kind of leaving, and everybody, everybody is coming together to celebrate it.
- [43:12]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
You think this holiday has helped and improved race relations?
- [43:14]
Juneteenth Participant 2
I do, because it gives the colored people something to celebrate, too. They don't just celebrate like Fourth of July.
- [43:25]
Shaq Brewster (NBC Correspondent)
The thing is, Melanie, you're seeing events like this not just here in Chicago, but all across the country.
- [43:31]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Shaq in Chicago. Thank you. Turning now to the latest installment of our Common Ground series, where we bring together people with different perspectives who are working together on issues that matter. Today, it's a conversation with two peace activists, one Israeli, one Palestinian, who have transformed personal tragedy into a shared mission for reconciliation amid a conflict that has spanned generations. Maozni Ian's parents were killed by Hamas gunmen in the horrific October 7th terror attacks, and their home was set on fire just days after their killing. Mayo spoke up with this message of peace.
- [44:09]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
I must tell you that I'm not Crying for my parents. I'm crying for those who are going to lose their life in this war. We must stop the war.
- [44:20]
Gabe Gutierrez (NBC White House Correspondent)
The war
- [44:23]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
is not the answer.
- [44:25]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Maoz then got an unexpected message from Aziz Abu Sara, a Palestinian man who he met just one time. When Aziz was 10 years old. His teenage brother died from internal injuries his family say stemmed from being tortured by the Israeli army. Aziz's message to Maoz read, Maoz, I'm so sorry to hear about your parents. That message was the beginning of an unexpected partnership and friendship between the two men who are now the co authors of the new book the Future is Peace. Kristen Welker recently sat down with Maoz and Aziz, and she began by asking Maoz what it was like to receive that message from Aziz in his deepest moment of grief after losing his parents.
- [45:09]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
Aziz reached out to me only three days after I lost my parents. And it was literally, literally like a hand reaching out and saving me from drowning into the ocean of sorrow and pain. And since then, we forged a partnership, a friendship and a brotherhood. And I can now. I'm so honored and proud to say that I lost my parents, but I want Aziz. I want Aziz as a brother.
- [45:34]
Aziz Abu Sara (Palestinian Peace Activist)
Thank you. Thank you, Miles.
- [45:38]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
It's so powerful to see the two of you sitting there together and the bond that you have forged. Aziz Mose describes you as his brother. What was it that made you reach out to him in that moment of desperation?
- [45:56]
Aziz Abu Sara (Palestinian Peace Activist)
Well, Laikma always lost his parents. I lost my brother due to torture in Israeli prison when I was 10 years old. He was 19 years old, Taysir. And so I understand that loneliness of grief, that pain. And what unites us is really our grief and our pain, but also our vision for the future. So I felt that in these dark moments, empathy is very important. And I reached out, not knowing if Maoz would respond, but he did. And he didn't just respond. He responded with tremendous empathy for people in Gaza, for the suffering there, and for speaking out against war. He was, I think, the first Israeli to do that after October 7th. And we realized that the two of us have a goal for the same future, that our region can be without wars, without death, without suffering, and that the stories of people like us don't exist in the future.
- [46:51]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
And now the two of you are fighting for peace in the most powerful and extraordinary way. Maz, let's talk about it. Ten months into the war, you decided to get into a tour van together. You drove for eight days visiting Israeli and Palestinian cities, which you detail in your book, which I Have right here. And I'll just show everyone your book. The Future is Peace. Why did you want to take this journey together, Maoz?
- [47:21]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
So first for me, it was part of my healing. It was only like you say, 10 months after I lost not only my parents, my childhood friends and people I knew my entire life. And it was kind of a journey to healing and to reconciliation. And because both of us are coming from the tourism industry and we both been through a journey that changed our life, we want to manifest it in the Future is Peace. So we are traveling through the holy land for eight days, and each chapter is a day, and each chapter is taking place in a different location. But as we travel through the land, we are also traveling in four dimensions of time. We are traveling through Greek mythology, biblical time in ancient history. We are traveling through the hundred years of conflict. We are traveling through our personal life, lost pain and healing. And most important, we are traveling to the future. And we are transforming in those eight days. We are transforming revenge into reconciliation, despair into hope and trauma into healing. And that's exactly what it's done to us. And it's done to many, many of the readers of the Futurist Beast that keep sending us messages and approaching us us to tell how meaningful the book is for them.
- [48:39]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
Aziz, give us your perspective. Maoz speaks in such powerful terms about what this journey has meant to him. What has it meant to you and what has surprised you and impacted you the most.
- [48:54]
Aziz Abu Sara (Palestinian Peace Activist)
So we started this journey at Maoze's home and at the graveyard where his parents remains were buried. And, and it's such a painful and powerful thing. And then we met with people in his family. I get to meet with his family. And that was very powerful because our relationship extends beyond the two of us to our families as well. And then we went on and met people in the kibbutz who lost family members as well. And then we called my friends from Gaza, right as we can see and hear the bombings. And we called our friends from Gaza, introduced Maoz to some of my friends. And it was incredible because one of the people we Met has lost 50 people in his family in bombings there. And yet he was checking on Maoz and he was saying that he supports our work and he wants us to do this work. And this is an important thing for people to hear. Despite so much loss and so much pain and so much trauma, there is a group of people like Abdelrahim from Gaza, like, like Maoz's neighbors and family that have come together and said we have no Other alternative. And to me, it's not a surprise, but it's so powerful to recite that and to remind people that these people exist and there is no other alternative. And then we continued the journey and Maoz came to visit my family and he got to meet my parents and got to meet my brothers and build that bond as well. So we became become a family together. And our families connect with each other as well.
- [50:29]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
Well, and part of what you address in your book and part of the work that you're focused on is how to solve this problem. And Maoz, you have said that you believe a lot of the misunderstanding comes down to education gaps. Talk about that and how you think that might be fixed.
- [50:48]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
Yes. I was born and raised in Israel. Until the age of 30, I had not even not only Palestinian friend. I didn't know any Palestinians. The Palestinians and Israelis. If it's between the Jordan river and Battalion seas, or if the international border of Israel. We live in two segregated communities. And when there is ignorance, like the ignorance I was born and raised within, there is fear. And when there is fear, there is hate. And when there is hate, we human being can do horrible things to each other. And what I learned after working with Palestinian communities within Israel for more than 20 years is that the first step in reaching a shared vision and a shared future is looking to the other side in the eye. And start listening to his stories, start listening to his narrative, pain, suffering, trauma, dreams and aspirations. And only when we are courageous enough to humanize the other side that we were born and raised to believe and to know that is an enemy. He's a monster. Only when we are courageous and brave to humanize the other side, we can humanize ourselves and we can start stepping or moving forward to the journey of a lasting peace.
- [52:02]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
Mao is really a message for the global community that you just shared. Aziz, I'll give you the final word. You have said you refused to learn Hebrew for a long time because you've used it as the language of the enemy. But you eventually enrolled in a Hebrew class. What is your message? What is the message you want to leave people with today?
- [52:22]
Aziz Abu Sara (Palestinian Peace Activist)
Well, like MAOZ, I was 18 years old. First time I met an Israeli who wasn't a soldier and a settler and wasn't part of the occupation of the West Bank. And so I went to study Hebrew. And in that Hebrew class, my teacher treated me like a human being, an Israeli Jewish woman, and recognized my story, recognized who I am. And that is so essential in learning about each other, recognizing the humanity and treating each other as equal, treating each other with dignity. And one of our favorite things we learned in this book as we writing it is poetry. Poetry from Israel, from Palestine. And one of our favorite poems come from Sami Al Qasim, a Palestinian poet. And he talks about the journey. And he says in it, the day I am killed, the day I am killed, my killer rifling through my pockets will find travel taken, tickets, one to peace, one to the fields and the rain, and one to the conscience of a humankind. So I beg you, my dear killer, don't ignore them. Do not waste such a thing. I beg you to take these tickets and to go traveling. And this is our message. Please join us in this journey. We cannot have peace in Israel and Palestine, the Middle east, or anywhere in the world unless we come together. We need every American, we need every European, we all part of this journey of creating peace.
- [53:40]
Kristen Welker (Interviewer)
Well, it is an honor to talk to both of you and we just salute the incredible work that you are doing. Thank you so very much. Aziz Abousrah and Maozynan, thank you for your time and for sharing your incredible story and your incredible bond that is changing lives. Thank you.
- [53:58]
Maozni Ian (Israeli Peace Activist)
Thank you very much.
- [54:01]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Still to come, we've got a live check in from the World cup as the United States is facing off against Australia right now with just minutes left on the clock. This is MEET the Press now. Welcome back. Right now, Team USA is leading 2:0 in the final minutes of this World cup game against Australia. Damien Trujillo from our NBC Bay Area station joins me now from Seattle. Right outside the stadium. I can hear the crowds roaring. Tell us what's going on over there. And how will today's match dictate Team USA's fate in this tournament?
- [54:47]
Damien Trujillo (NBC Bay Area Reporter)
Well, Melda, right now, the US controls its own destiny. But this crowd is roaring, of course. We're in Seattle at Seattle Stadium. This stadium is known for its tournament 12th man in football turns American football. It means the crowd plays a role in what happens during that football game because they are so loud. They're just as loud, if not louder, here at the Seattle Stadium. The chants of usa, usa. Usa. Are resonating here. And so, as I mentioned, USA controls its own destiny. Now, there is a match after this over at San Francisco Bay Area Stadium between Turkey and Paraguay. If Turkey either loses or ties Paraguay, then the US automatically advances over to the knockout round of 32 on July 1 at the same San Francisco Bay Area stadium. So a lot of control here by Team usa. They are playing spectacularly over these last couple of matches, but they feel like they still have a lot to prove. We'll see if by tonight night they make it to that knockout round of 32. They have a good chance if they keep playing their game. Paraguay shows up tonight and either ties or defeats Turkey.
- [56:02]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Mel and Damien, if you could just pick maybe one or two words to describe the mood right now where you are, what would they be?
- [56:11]
Damien Trujillo (NBC Bay Area Reporter)
Oh, it's chaotic. It's loud, it's chaotic and it's enthusiastic. Very patriotic. You know, a couple of weeks before the 4th of July. This is awesome.
- [56:20]
Melanie Nona (Host)
Yeah. Damien, thank you so much. We'll be back Monday with more Meet the Press now. And if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC news station. There's more ahead on NBC News now.
- [56:33]
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