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Meet the Press
Meet the Press NOW – March 25
00:51:42
Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.) joins Meet the Press NOW to discuss the war in Iran and why she opposes additional funding. Swedish Defense Chief Michael Claesson joins to discuss the growing fallout from the U.S. war with Iran and ongoing efforts to support Ukraine as Russia’s war continues. DHS remains partially shut down as Congress remains divided on funding, with TSA agents set to miss another paycheck. Tech journalist Jacob Ward explains the implications for technology companies after a jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in causing harm to a young woman and failing to warn users about the risks of their platforms.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:11]
Kristen Welker
Welcome to Meet the Press. Now I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, where the Trump administration appears to be moving forward with the war in Iran on dual tracks, both diplomatically and militarily, sending to Iran a new proposal to end the war while simultaneously surging more military assets and troops to the region. This afternoon, White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt touting the success of the US Military operations in the Middle East. As we approach the four week mark
- [01:37]
Caroline Levitt
of the war, it's abundantly clear that Operation Epic Fury has been a resounding military triumph. The Iranian regime is being crippled and their ability to threaten the United States and our allies is being significantly weakened. Their ambitions of building a nuclear weapon have also been crushed to an even greater degree than they were in Operation midnight hammer in June 2025. That's why you're beginning to see the regime look for an exit ramp. The president's preference is always peace. There does not need to be any more death and destruction. But if Iran fails to accept the reality of the current moment, if they fail to understand that they have been defeated militarily and will continue to be President Trump will ensure they are hit harder than they have ever been hit before. President Trump does not bluff and he is prepared to unleash hell.
- [02:29]
Kristen Welker
Now. Despite that latest threat, the Trump administration is also signaling that it is looking to wind down the war, sending Iran a 15 point plan to end the conflict. According to two regional sources and a US official, that proposal, delivered to Iranian officials through Pakistan would which is looking to play a role as mediator. But Iranian state tv, citing A senior political security official says Tehran has rejected the offer and it will not allow President Trump to dictate the timing of the end of the war. That same official also countering with Iran's demands to end the war, including a complete halt to aggression and assassinations, payments for war damages and reparations, and recognition of Iran's sovereignty over the strait of Hormuz. NBC's Gabe Gutierrez asked White House press Secretary Caroline Levitt today what Iran's apparent rejection of the U.S. proposal means for the talks.
- [03:22]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
Iranian state TV has said that Iran has rejected the U.S. s 15 point plan to end the war. What's the White House's response to that? And have these talks hit a dead end?
- [03:34]
Caroline Levitt
They have not. Talks continue, they are productive, as the president said on Monday, and they continue to be. I am not going to negotiate on behalf of the president here at the podium. We have what I will tell you is these talks are ongoing. We're not going to get into the nitty gritty details that have been exchanged between the United States and Iran at this time.
- [03:53]
Kristen Welker
It comes as President Trump has approved the deployment of more than 1,000 soldiers to the Middle east even after claiming the US has won the war. The head of Iran's parliament responding, writing on social media that Iran is closely monitoring US Troop deployment, adding, quote, do not test our resolve to defend our land. It comes as we're learning new details about how White House officials are briefing President Trump about the state of the war, including a daily video montage that runs about two minutes long showing the biggest and most successful US Strikes. That's according to three current US Officials and a former US Official. One official describing the daily highlights real as a series of clips of stuff blowing up. The White House, saying that that characterization simplifies the president's briefings. Now just moments ago, Iran's foreign minister responding to our reporting posting on social media, quote, it seems the war is being sold not once but daily, even to the president himself through carefully curated videos. Joining me now is NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba and NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley. Thanks to both of you for joining me, Monica. So let's start with this potential diplomacy track. What are you hearing about this 15 point plan that the US sent to the Iranians?
- [05:10]
Monica Alba
Well, the White House is really trying to downplay this today, Kristen, and saying that there are ongoing talks and negotiations, but they are pushing back specifically on 15 point plan. Even though it was the president himself who first introduced the idea of 15 points when he was the one who revealed these talks earlier this week, on Monday, in fact, and he did discuss a couple of those points and said that he didn't want to get into the others. And the White House today is saying similarly that they don't want to get into some of the substance of what might be in these points and they also don't want to talk about who might be on the receiving end. On the other end of this, they have not identified who, if any of those Iranian officials have actually been able to review this and engage with the US Negotiators, who according to the president, could be anybody from his special envoy, Steve Wyckoff to his son in law, Jared Kushner. And he's also now said that potentially the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio and The Vice President, J.D. vance would also somehow be involved in all of this. But again, we are really lacking the exact specifics and the back and forth. Instead just seeing the sort of public display of the White House saying that everything that's out there isn't correct and of Iran saying that they haven't necessarily formally engaged in this. So a lot of this seems to be still continuing, Kristen, behind the scenes, the White House not ready to say where those talks really stand today.
- [06:32]
Kristen Welker
And Monica, take us inside this new reporting, this highlights reel that President Trump is receiving as part of his daily briefings about the war.
- [06:40]
Monica Alba
Yeah, this is quite a scoop from our colleagues Kathryn Doyle, Courtney Kuby and Dan Delouse, who do really provide a window into how the president is getting some of the information about this massive military operation. And that is through this two minute sizzle reel in effect. Now, that's not the only way that he's getting information, according to the officials who spoke to our colleagues for this story. They say that he is also constantly meeting with military advisers, certainly with his top cabinet officials, and he's pretty much getting briefed all day long. But it is raising and fueling concerns that he might be getting a slimmer window into what is actually happening on the battlefield here because many people simply want to present him sometimes with more of the US Victories and not necessarily some of the more challenging aspects. But the White House has really said that this is a president who is taking in all kinds of information, that that is normally how he operates, that he's quizzing people constantly and talking to people all the time and getting all sorts of angles and perspectives. But I think this is a really illuminating story about how the president digests information and about the kind of information that some of his top aides are putting in front of him on a daily basis.
- [07:50]
Kristen Welker
KRISTEN well, Monica, let me also ask you about some of the new poll numbers that we're getting that show almost 60% of U.S. adults think U.S. military actions against Iran have gone too far. More than 60% oppose U.S. boots on the ground. What's been the reaction inside the White House? Is there concern about these numbers?
- [08:10]
Monica Alba
MONICA well, they're certainly aware of them. And I do think that when you hear the president in almost every public event in the last couple of weeks try to say that this is winding down potentially, that militarily he believes the objectives have already been won, that this is something that's going to be done soon, does sort of see signal an awareness within the White House that there is this concern that this is maybe going on too long. But here's a little bit more of what the White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt, had to say today, specifically when asked about what young people should take away from the war.
- [08:42]
Kristen Welker
Here's what President Trump's message would be
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Matt Bradley
to those voters who kind of swung
- [08:45]
Kristen Welker
into his coalition in 2024, but maybe don't feel the administration is going as they had expected.
- [08:50]
Caroline Levitt
President Trump is doing this for you. He's doing this for young people so that we are no longer threatened by a rogue terrorist regime in the Middle East. As for the temporary short term fluctuation in gas prices, the president has said once these combat operations are over, this administration is going to continue to unleash American energy dominance. We're continuing to do that every day and we're going to see prices at the pump go back down just as we have over the past year because
- [09:16]
Monica Alba
of this president and that awareness about the poll numbers. Kristen just as important is the awareness about the rising gas prices which you saw her talk about there as well.
- [09:26]
Kristen Welker
Major flashpoint as we head into the midterms. Monica Alba at the White House, thank you so much. Matt, let me go to you. What are you hearing from officials in the region about this latest diplomatic effort?
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Matt Bradley
Yeah, well, we haven't really heard much from the Israelis. We only just heard from Caroline Levitt. The people that I'm speaking to here see this as something that, you know, that the that Witkoff is kind of dealing with when it comes to the Israelis. They see the diplomacy and have been seeing diplomacy as a separ separate track managed by the US and not just managed entirely by the US Government, but specifically an effort that's been led by Witkoff, Steve Witkoff, President Trump's chief envoy, and Jared Kushner, his son in Law, who's also taken a very frontline diplomatic role. The Israelis haven't really, from the beginning, from long before the war actually started, put very much stock into the diplomatic process. And in fact, they almost were kind of acting like they were just going to wait it out. And they did. And that's when the offensive started back in late February. So now it's unclear whether the Israelis are going to be taking this particular round of negotiations seriously. But I can tell you that what I've been reading from the Israeli media, what I've been hearing from people, is that they don't necessarily see these as particularly real. The Iranians have basically rejected the notion that there are any negotiations to begin with. So the Israelis don't really see anything to talk about when it comes to these negotiations, and that's why they haven't really been commenting on it very much at all.
- [10:58]
Kristen Welker
What are you hearing about the potential demands that Iran is making? For example, we know that the US Wants Iran to never have a nuclear weapon again.
- [11:09]
Matt Bradley
Well, I mean, we've been hearing this from Benjamin Netanyahu. You know, when it comes to the goals of this war, Israel's goals are much, much more clearly defined than those of the United States. They basically just want to make sure that Iran doesn't have the power to attack Israel or hurt Israelis. Now, one of the things that is the major issue here, the major fear among Israeli officials is that they don't want this president to have started this war and then to come to some sort of abrupt deal to end it before the Israelis have reached their own goals, which are very specific to the Israelis, which means cutting off the Iranian ability to attack Israel, which is quite close to Iran, particularly compared to the United States. The Israeli leadership is worried that President Trump will not only just stop the fighting, but that he'll force Israel to stop fighting as well. That means the Israelis won't have another opportunity to go into Iran and attack some of its ballistic missile sites, its nuclear enrichment facilities, without the approval of the US who, after having attacked Iran and after having come to some sort of deal with them, might be more reluctant to give Israel the green light.
- [12:16]
Kristen Welker
Well, and that's what makes these diplomatic talks so incredibly complicated and challenging. Matt Bradley, thank you so much for your great reporting. We really appreciate it. We do want to turn now to Capitol Hill, where a deal to fund the Department of Homeland Security and end the travel chaos caused by long security lines at airports across the country appears to be stalling once again, Democrats today putting the ball back in Republicans court submitting a counteroffer to the GOP proposal. The Republican plan would fund all of DHS except for the part of Immigration and Customs Enforcement that handled deportations and use a budget maneuver to bypass Democrats to fund the rest of ICE at a later point. The Republican offer did not include major reforms to ice, as Democrats demanded. Here's Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer earlier today.
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Chuck Schumer
Our offer is a reasonable good faith proposal that contains some of the very same asks Democrats have been talking about now for months. Over the last day, Republicans have made the outrageous and bad faith claim that Democrats are somehow moving the goalpost back in these negotiations. They are saying Democrats change the ask. They're saying Democrats are backtracking and suddenly introducing new demands at the last minute. This is nonsense. Nonsense.
- [13:36]
Kristen Welker
The exact specifics of the Democratic plan remain unclear, but Senator Schumer says it includes many of the party's original demands to reign in ice. Now leader Thune dismissing Schumer's counteroffer, saying it's not even close to being real.
- [13:51]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
They know better. They're asking for things that have already been turned down. So it just seems like they're going in circles. I mean, this is spinning, spinning. I'm still hoping that there are reasonable Democrats who find funding DHS to be important enough of a priority to be willing to take yes for an answer.
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Kristen Welker
It comes as senior DHS officials testified on the impact of the shutdown today and the pressure TSA officers are facing as they work without pay, with many calling out as long lines persist at airports.
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Acting TSA Administrator
This fiscal year, TSA has been shut down for 50% of the time, or 85 days. And if still shut down this Friday, we will have reached nearly $1 billion in missed paychecks. Many in our workforce have missed bill payments, received eviction notices, had their cars repossessed and utilities shut off, lost their childcare, defaulted on loans, damaged their credit line and drained their retirement savings. Some are sleeping in their cars, selling their blood in plasma and taking on jobs, second jobs to make ends meet, all while being expected to perform at the highest level when in uniform to protect the traveling public.
- [15:07]
Kristen Welker
Joining me now is senior national political reporter Sahil Kapoor and Priscilla Thompson is at George Bush International Airport in Houston. Thank you both for being here. Sahil, yesterday there was some cautious optimism on Capitol Hill that maybe a deal was coming into focus. What's the mood on the Hill today?
- [15:26]
Sahil Kapoor
Well, Kristen, the mood is sour today. The two parties in the Senate have gotten a little bit closer on concept, but there's still no breakthrough on a deal that can actually pass and get signed into law. The Senate is about to fail yet again on yet another bill to try to fund DHS, because there aren't 60 votes right now. Here is the crux of the dispute. There have been offers traded back and forth. What Senator John Thune and the Republicans believe is that Democrats cannot reasonably demand reforms to ICE if that funding is getting stripped out of the underlying bill. That's the Republican view. The Democratic view is that the bill still funds cbp, which is de facto carrying out a number of ICE operations. They note that it was CBP agents that killed Alex Preddy in Minneapolis. So they can't fund that without some reforms. Now, one plausible endgame that I've spoken to some senators about could be that the only reforms that get added to this underlying bill that requires 60 votes are those that the White House has already agreed to, like requiring agents to wear body cameras identifying which agency that officers are from. Leave aside the more thorny issues like masks and judicial warrants. That could be where this ends up, Kristen. But right now there's still no breakthrough, as I said. And looming over all of this is a scheduled two week recess that was supposed to begin at the end of tomorrow. Are they still going to go on recess while all this chaos at airports is getting worse and there's still no deal?
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Kristen Welker
Yeah, and the president was saying they should cancel their break if there's no deal. Do Democrats have any leverage, Sahil, here?
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Sahil Kapoor
Yeah, of course they do. And it's all in the Senate, Kristen, because they need 60 votes, Republicans do to get anything passed. That's the entire reason the shutdown is ongoing and they don't have 60 votes. So Democrats have the ability to block any DHS funding unless at least some of their demands are met. What they keep saying is that Republicans can, because TSA is the immediate crisis fund. TSA is a standalone bill. They agree on TSA funding. They agree on the amount of it. What Democrats have been calling for is a simple standalone TSA bill to pass to fund that and to end all of this delay at airports. But Republicans are saying no to that. They don't want to strip out different components of this and pass these things piecemeal because they worry at the end of it, everything except ICE and CBP and immigration enforcement will end up getting funded.
- [17:46]
Kristen Welker
All right, Sahil, I know you're in for a busy couple of days on the Hill. Thank you so much for that reporting. Priscilla, let me turn to you. So we heard the acting TSA Administrator. They're testifying about the financial burden, the emotional burden that many TSA officers are under. What are you hearing from officials there in Houston where you are?
- [18:07]
Priscilla Thompson
Yeah, we're seeing it on the ground here where the TSA has had to send in national deployment officers to help staff some of these airports in Houston that are hovering at about 40% when it comes to call outs because these agents are taking on other jobs so that they can pay their bills and feed their families. And I will tell you, frustrated travelers are taking note. One man came up to me and he said, tell those senators we will not forget this in November. And of course, November being those midterm elections.
- [18:34]
Kristen Welker
Well, that's a pretty powerful point, Priscilla, and that's the backdrop to all of this. You're so right to point that out. Houston has, frankly been among the airports with the longest lines during this shutdown. So how are things looking today? I know you've been there since the early hours this morning, Priscilla.
- [18:51]
Priscilla Thompson
Yeah, we saw a bit of a
- [18:53]
Kristen Welker
lull, but look at this.
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Priscilla Thompson
The lines are long again. And this isn't even half of it. The rest of it is snaking underneath this building, through baggage claim, we're told, almost to the hotel that is connected to the airport. I want to play some of the conversations that I've had with people who are arriving early and what they're finding. Take a listen. How are you feeling about the line?
- [19:14]
Matt Bradley
So far, so good.
- [19:15]
Kristen Welker
We came here.
- [19:16]
Matt Bradley
Our flight leaves at 2:00'.
- [19:17]
Kristen Welker
Clock.
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Matt Bradley
So we got here plenty of time.
- [19:18]
Kristen Welker
We've been watching on the news all week.
- [19:19]
Priscilla Thompson
Yeah.
- [19:20]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
So we knew better than to get here.
- [19:21]
International Traveler
So we're from Australia and we were just transiting and we didn't. We didn't know.
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Monica Alba
Yeah.
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International Traveler
So we were here.
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Senator Tammy Duckworth
What's good with you here?
- [19:28]
International Traveler
We were here three hours early for our flight to Japan, but we still didn't make it.
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Priscilla Thompson
And had you heard or seen what was going on here?
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Scott Wong
No.
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International Traveler
So yesterday, obviously, we found out a lot more about what was going on after the trauma. That was yesterday. Yeah. And so that's why we're here 8 hours early today to make sure we actually get on a flight.
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Priscilla Thompson
And Kristen, can you imagine being an international traveler right now and dealing with this? That woman told me that she has spent about a thousand dollars having to rebook flights and hotels and all kinds of things as a result of this
- [20:02]
Kristen Welker
chaos and to get to the airport eight hours before a flight. Priscilla, that is unbelievable. Well, those travelers tell the tale of this moment. We really appreciate your joining us and your great reporting. Priscilla, thanks so much. Coming up, we will dive deeper into the war against Iran and the battle over DHS funding with a top Senate Democrat and combat veteran. My interview with Senator Tammy Duckworth is next. Plus, breaking news that is rocking the tech world after a landmark verdict against social media giants Meta and YouTube, finding them liable for failing to protect users from social media addiction. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now.
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- [22:49]
Kristen Welker
Welcome back. Senate Democrats are demanding that President Trump come to Congress to seek authorization for the Iran War but today the White House said it has no current plans to do so. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth from Illinois. Senator Duckworth, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
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Senator Tammy Duckworth
Thanks for having me on.
- [23:12]
Kristen Welker
I want to start with something we heard earlier today from the press secretary. Take a listen. Is there a point either a number
- [23:20]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
of ground troops or a number of
- [23:21]
Kristen Welker
days at which the President will consider
- [23:23]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
seeking authorization from Congress?
- [23:25]
Caroline Levitt
Well, as you know right now that formal authorization from Congress is not necessary because we're currently in major combat operations in Iran, the Department of War and the pressure. The President, as I said, estimated about a four to six week timeline for the full completion of these military combat operations. So at this moment, it's unnecessary. But of course, the President and this administration will always abide by the law.
- [23:48]
Kristen Welker
Senator, what's your reaction to hearing that Caroline Levitt says it's unnecessary to go to Congress right now?
- [23:55]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Well, I would urge her to read the Constitution of the United States. He has to come to Congress. Only Congress can declare war. And if she's saying that we're in major combat operations and we're in a war, that's only Congress as the elected representatives of the American people can do that. And really, you know, it's egregious why Republicans are continuing to enable a five time draft dodger who's using our troops as counterfeiter in his illegal war of choice. They need to come to Congress and tell us why is it that they launch this attack and what exactly is the end game? What is going to happen next? And frankly, the American people want to
- [24:32]
Kristen Welker
know, would you in fact authorize this war if the President came to you and sought your approval?
- [24:41]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Well, he would have to tell us why. This is the role of Congress. He presents to us why this war is justified, what the end state is and what is next. And then Congress debates and then we have the vote. This is what happened with the war in Iraq, right? Colin Powell came to the Congress, presented the state and then the evidence, and then Congress voted. Trump needs to do that. But right now all we have is an incoherent war that Trump cannot articulate a justification for. And he's already killed 13 of our troops and put thousands of Americans in danger and sent costs through the roof here at home.
- [25:22]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you about what we are hearing about the state of play. The United States States has sent Iran a 15 point plan to end the war. Now, this is according to Iranian state television, but Iran, according to Iranian state television, has rejected that. Proposal. But I want to ask you more broadly, Senator, do you think that this war can be brought to an end through negotiations?
- [25:49]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Look, I support peace, and for the sake of our troops, national security, and the global economy, I hope there are peace talks that are fruitful. But I got to tell you, Donald Trump needs all the help he can get. I mean, he's so called the best negotiator in the world. And Mr. Ard of the deal was if he was any good at diplomacy, he wouldn't have launched us into this illegal war that is costing troops lives and driving up costs all over the United States in the first place. And it's really a disaster. That's why I'm pushing for a War Powers Resolution that will bring an end to this conflict before it costs any more lives and any more suffering. But you got to understand, the end state that he's talking about is where we were before he launched the war. He's talking about having navigation and open navigation in the Hormuz Strait. Well, guess what? There was open navigation in the Hormuz Strait before he actually launched these attacks. So let's be clear, no one is actually winning this war.
- [26:42]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you, because you're saying you're pushing for War Powers Resolution to bring this war to an end. US Allies in the Gulf warns that could have consequences ending this war too quickly. At this point, what do you say to US Allies who say if the United States were to leave now, that that could potentially put them in more danger?
- [27:06]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Well, the War Powers Resolution doesn't actually end the war. It just stops. And while Trump and his administration comes to Congress and justifies the war and then tells us what is the next step, and then we will decide whether or not we continue to pursue this. This is all on Trump. He's burned billions of taxpayer dollars. He's put thousands of Americans and our allies at risk in the region. And simply, this was not a war that was necessary, and it's too high a price to pay. Donald Trump got into office by saying america first. And I mean, that's a bunch of baloney because all he's done is involved us in wars all over and continue to expend billions of taxpayer dollars for a war choice.
- [27:49]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you, because the Pentagon is poised to ask the White House for more than $200 billion to fund the war in Iran for weapons supplies. Will you approve that funding request if the argument is made that that is what is needed to support the troops on the ground, or I shouldn't say troops on the ground to support the military effort. There's.
- [28:12]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Yeah, yeah, this is about. They want $200 billion to continue Trump's war of choice. This is not about whether or not we support our troops in the ground. There's no stronger supporter of the troops than I am. And in fact, that is why I am opposed to this war, because it puts our military men and women who will always do their jobs in harm's way. For a war of choice with Donald Trump, let me make clear to the American people what $200 billion could do. $200 billion could fund a decade of free universal preschool for four year olds. $200 billion could provide seniors with dental, vision and hearing coverage through Medicare for three years. It would build over 2 million affordable homes. It would reverse the snap cuts on the big ugly bill. It would extend the ACA premium tax credits by seven years. That's what $200 billion will do. And you know, there's a technicality here. If a member of Congress votes for the supplemental, it's basically voting to support the war. And I don't support this war. And I don't think the American people do either.
- [29:10]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you about this shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security. There have been various talks. We know that Republicans submitted a potential proposal. Apparently Democratic leadership submitted a counter offer to the Republican plan to fund dhs. Do you know what's in that offer?
- [29:30]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Well, what is happening right now is we Democrats have said, let's put this in writing. What they came back with was essentially what we asked for in the very beginning to prevent the shutdown. We wanted ICE to no longer be masked and we want them to be wearing body cameras that are turned on. We want them to have to have judicial warrants, not just ICE issued administrative warrants, if they're going to come up onto private property. And we want ICE to not be able to just investigate themselves when there is ICE officer involved violence with civilians, that local law enforcement should be able to help investigate that as well. Those are three very broad buckets that we asked for. And that's essentially what the Republicans were coming back with. And what we're saying is, okay, put that in writing. That's the stage we're in right now. Put that in running. For example, ICE will wear body camera. We will give them money for the body cameras, but they must turn them on. So we, the, you know, we saw in Chicago that ICE repeatedly turn off their body cameras. And so we just want to make sure that we get things into writing that are very clear as to what the expectations are.
- [30:32]
Kristen Welker
So you think that there is an off ramp, and if you aren't able to resolve this in the coming days, does that risk Republicans just reopening DHS through reconciliation?
- [30:45]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Well, they already have enough money to fund tsa. For example, remember that during a previous shutdown, Donald Trump, having used reconciliation and swiped money illegally, went ahead and paid the troops anyway. So they've had plenty of money to pay tsa. The Trump administration is just simply choosing not to. They're trying to hold the American traveling public and our wonderful TSA agents hostage to push an agenda that involves having ICE terrorizing the streets of our cities. And we're not going to let that happen
- [31:17]
Kristen Welker
just very quickly, though, because people are missing paychecks. How long are you willing and how long are Democrats willing to hold out? Or do you need to make a deal this week?
- [31:31]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Let me make it clear. Donald Trump could pay TSA tomorrow. He's choosing not to. The question is, Donald Trump, why are you not paying the TSA agents? You have taken enough money into DHS to pay the TSA agents. So let's be clear. Why are Republicans not telling Trump, go ahead and pay the TSA agents while we work out the minutiae of the deals? For example, by saying things like if ICE is going to, we're going to give ICE body cameras, they must turn them on and they must keep that footage for a period of one or two years so that if there is ICE involved violence, we can have the proper investigation. Why is Donald Trump not paying TSA when he has given DHA the money in order to pay that they have plenty of dollars to do this. They're simply choosing not to.
- [32:14]
Kristen Welker
Well, to the argument that the president Republicans would make that they don't, given that it's currently shut down, you would say, what? And do you believe that moderate Democrats will ultimately make a deal, reach across the aisle and make a deal?
- [32:33]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
They have money, they took, under a previous procedure, enough money to pay TSA agents. They're simply choosing not to. And they did it when it was a shutdown involving the military and they actually paid the troops. And so again, they have the money to do this and they're simply choosing not to do so because they're holding the American people and they're holding TSA workers hostage because they're trying to justify having ICE on the streets of our cities terrorizing our communities.
- [33:03]
Kristen Welker
Senator, just one last quick question. When there is a government shutdown, as you know, fingers get pointed on both sides. Do Democrats not bear a burden and a responsibility to bring this government shutdown to an end as well.
- [33:19]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
The ball is in their court. They can end this shutdown anytime they want. They can pay TSA anytime they want. They're simply choosing not to.
- [33:28]
Kristen Welker
All right. Senator Tammy Duckworth, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. As the war with Iran nears the one month mark, the patience of some of America's allies is wearing thin with some European leaders calling for an end to the war, including Spain's Prime Minister who earlier today said, quote, it is not fair that some people are setting the world ablaze whilst the rest of us are left to swallow the ashes. Meanwhile, France's army chief called the USA, quote, unpredictable, an unpredictable ally, and said the U.S. s actions are impacting France's security. That's in contrast to the message we heard from the NATO Secretary General this weekend.
- [34:06]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
Listen, I know there is a lot of debate in the US and in Europe whether this campaign of the President against Iran was necessary. Let me tell you, it is. It is crucial that the president, that us Is doing this.
- [34:21]
Kristen Welker
Joining me now is Sweden's Chief of Defense and Supreme Commander of the Swedish Armed Forces, Michael Claussen. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate.
- [34:30]
Michael Claussen
Thank you for having me on the program. Thank you.
- [34:32]
Kristen Welker
Well, we really appreciate your being here. I want to start off by getting your big picture view of the war with Iran. President Trump has argued that Iran did pose an imminent threat, quite frankly, to global security. Do you believe that Iran posed an imminent threat?
- [34:48]
Michael Claussen
I think that Iran definitely poses a threat to the global community. And we all know about the axis between Russia and Iran, and Russia, Iran and North Korea, for example, which definitely poses a threat to global security. In what order to address that? It's not my thing to decide, of course, but it's just the fact that
- [35:11]
Chuck Schumer
this axis exists, part of the President's
- [35:14]
Kristen Welker
justification for the war, and I'll just quote for you a little bit of what he says is that Iran was developing weapons that could, quote, target our very good friends and allies in Europe as well as US Troops overseas. Did Sweden have that perspective that Iran could potentially target it?
- [35:33]
Michael Claussen
Not really, but we have seen some evidence in the last couple of weeks that they actually have the capability to what extent and with what sustainability you can always discuss, but that they definitely have these long range capabilities and opens up a new vector, so to speak, against also targets in Europe. That's more or less a fact too, I would say. But again, I mean, we have been very focused on Russia and are still very focused on Russia. So in that regard, of course, again, going back to the axis between those countries.
- [36:05]
Kristen Welker
Well, and I do want to ask you about Russia in just a moment. There's been a lot of talk about whether there can be diplomatic discussions. President Trump says that the US is talking to Iran. We have reporting that the US has in fact submitted a 15 point plan. Do you think diplomacy is possible and do you think it's possible in this moment?
- [36:27]
Michael Claussen
Well, to be honest, I think that diplomacy always must play a role simultaneously with military action. From my perspective, it's never either or. It's always both. The main effort can be on one or the other aspect. Of course, both have to be in play.
- [36:45]
Kristen Welker
I spoke with President Trump a couple of weeks ago and he said that he was reaching out to NATO allies, asking for your help to secure and reopen the Strait of Hormuz. He's expressed frustration in the wake of that that more allies have not come forward. Does Sweden have any intention to play a role in reopening the strait?
- [37:04]
Michael Claussen
Well, we are open for anything that could contribute to a de. Escalation. A de escalation. And also going back to sort of the free movement, freedom of navigation through international straits, including the Hormuz. So I guess that if there are any approaches made through the NATO system or bilaterally, we would be open to discuss that.
- [37:28]
Kristen Welker
So you would be open to potentially help, but Sweden hasn't made any commitments at this point in time?
- [37:32]
Michael Claussen
No, we have not.
- [37:32]
Kristen Welker
I hear you saying, okay, I want to just get your broad reaction to what we've heard from President Trump recently about NATO. He's called NATO a paper tiger, quote, cowards. And I want to play you a little bit of what we've heard from him. Take a listen.
- [37:46]
Matt Bradley
In the case of NATO, they don't want to help us defend the strait
- [37:51]
Kristen Welker
and they're the ones that need it. NATO could help us, but they so far haven't had the courage to do so. What is your reaction when President Trump makes these comments about NATO? Does it undercut the alliance?
- [38:03]
Michael Claussen
Well, I think that to start with, I can only speak from a Swedish military perspective and certainly not comment on foreign political leaders, comments, commentary on the alliance or anything else, basically. But I can assure anyone that wants to listen that, well, Sweden and Swedes are no cowards. And we have proven that in international operations over decades. Also together with NATO and together with our American allies, shoulder to shoulder.
- [38:32]
Kristen Welker
Do you think those comments impact European leaders?
- [38:35]
Michael Claussen
Well, in many ways. Of course it does. But it also makes us think twice to what extent we actually are in need of focusing on more aspects and more threats than only sort of the ones that directly affects us, which is very often, again, only Russia.
- [38:56]
Kristen Welker
Let me ask you, because Spain's Prime Minister earlier today, and we were talking about Russia, your focus on Russia claimed that Russia has made 8 billion euros, which is some $9 billion, from increased energy prices since the start. Do you believe that Russia is benefiting right now?
- [39:16]
Michael Claussen
Oh, indeed, yes, indeed, of course they do. They already run sort of a wartime economy. They have increased their production capacity with regard to missiles and drones and so on and so forth. And this will be an injection of energy into their war economy.
- [39:36]
Kristen Welker
You are very focused on the war in Ukraine as well, trying to bring that conflict to an end. How does the war in Iran impact the efforts to try to bring the war in Ukraine to an end, do you think?
- [39:50]
Michael Claussen
I think one concern that we all share in the military community globally, or at least in the west, is of course, security of supply. We know that we need the same type of weapon systems up and running for deterring Russia in Europe and in the, in the Arctic. We know that we need the same type of weapon systems to continue to support Ukraine, to underpin their ability to defend themselves. And of course, the war and the operations in the Middle east requires even more. So all this together needs a balancing and needs to be weighed against the production capacity of the defence industrial base
- [40:34]
Kristen Welker
in the west and the defense industrial base. And then there's also the space to actually try to have global leaders work towards bringing an end to the war in Ukraine. Do you have concerns that the focus has shifted to Iran and that that could potentially prolong the war in Ukraine?
- [40:53]
Michael Claussen
I think that that politically and if I may say that also in this context, that media very often has focus on one thing at a time. So obviously it takes focus away from Ukraine and this is something that we need to keep in mind. We need to keep the balance and focus on which countries, which axes are actually playing the strategic play simultaneously.
- [41:21]
Kristen Welker
And you were just in Ukraine. What do you want the world to know about Ukraine and what's happening there right now?
- [41:26]
Michael Claussen
I had the chance to travel 3,000km. I don't know how much that is in miles, but 3,000 kilometers by car throughout Ukraine. I met with several, maybe tens and twenties of military leaders. But the most important thing was to get my own perception of the atmospherics in the country. And my main conclusion is it's not a broken country. They are tired for obvious reasons. But it's not a broken country. So we need to maintain focus on more than one problem.
- [41:57]
Kristen Welker
All right. Thank you so much. We really appreciate your perspective.
- [42:00]
Michael Claussen
Thank you for having me.
- [42:01]
Kristen Welker
Thank you for being here. Please come back soon. Michael Claussen, appreciate your time today. Coming up after the break, a hotly anticipated verdict finding meta and YouTube liable in a case that could have sweeping implications for the tech industry as a surprise humanoid guest raises eyebrows at the White House. You do not want to miss this video. Don't go anywhere. You're watching this. The press now.
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- [44:01]
Kristen Welker
Welcome back. We are following breaking news, a verdict in the landmark case addressing the power and influence of social media. A Los Angeles jury today finding meta and YouTube negligent in the design or operation of their platforms and saying the companies failed to warn users of the dangers of their services. The jurors found that the tech giant's platforms harmed a young user with features that made her addicted and led to mental health problems. The trial, which included testimony from Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, was the first lawsuit of its kind to go to trial. In separate statements, Meta and Google, YouTube's parent company, saying they disagree with today's verdict and plan to appeal. Today's verdict comes just one day after a jury in New Mexico ordered meta to pay $375 million after determining that Meta concealed what it knew about child sexual exploitation on its platform. Meta says it plans to appeal that verdict as well. Joining me now is Jacob Ward, veteran technology journalist and host of the Rip Current podcast. He's also the author of the Loop How Technology Is Creating a World Without Choice and How to Fight Back. Jacob, thanks so much for joining me. So let's talk about today's big verdict. What was your big takeaway?
- [45:18]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
Well, Kristen, this is really, I mean, for me, it is a. I get goosebumps as I say it. It is truly a historic moment. I really think that this is on a par with figuring out that cigarettes cause cancer or that we needed to have seatbelts in cars. This is a huge societal shift that we're seeing unfolding in front of us, really, in real time. And as a result, you know, I think this is the end of social media as we know it, and it is definitely the end of childhood as we have come to accept it. We are seeing for the very first time a social media company found liable, in this case, two of them found liable for the design choices they made and for, as a result, addicting kids in a harmful way to their product. This is something that was unimaginable even a few years ago because these companies have enjoyed such powerful legal protections until now. Now this new legal theory opens up an entirely new can of worms, one that consists of more than 1600 cases that are now going to come down on one or more of these companies. Kristen.
- [46:19]
Kristen Welker
Wow. Well, it's really striking to hear you describe it in that context, Jacob. So paint a picture for me. You say this is the end of social media as we know it. What does that look like in our society?
- [46:33]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
Well, until now, right, we've treated our attention and by extension, our behavior as, first of all, something that you and I are supposed to be entirely in control of ourselves, right? We've been sort of of the opinion that somehow the choices you and I make are totally our own and can't really be shaped by Anybody. But then, of course, what we saw was the rise of an industry that has made its business analyzing and shaping behavior at scale wherever possible. And this is not to say that they had nefarious ideas in mind. They just had discovered that our attention is an incredibly profitable product to traffic in. And so in this case, we're just looking at now a jury that, you know, even a few years ago might not have been able to wrap their minds around the idea that we can have this kind of harm by the design of a platform that was such an abstract concept. As someone who tries to articulate that concept as often as I do, you know, I've spent years trying to get people to understand even the idea that there are. Are armies of experts inside these companies working on that kind of idea. And. And now suddenly you have a jury of our peers suddenly understanding that it seems. And. And as a result, finding these two companies liable. So this could absolutely rewrite the rules. Now, will that be a. A rewriting of the rules that everyone will be happy with? I don't think so. Right. We have enormous First Amendment issues that are going to come up with this. And you know that Meta and YouTube are going to fight tooth and nail because this is an existential threat to the way they do business. So this is not over by any stretch, but I think that the era of treating our behavior as an infinite product to mine, that era is over.
- [48:20]
Kristen Welker
I think it's just really powerful to hear you talk about it in those terms. You talk about the profits. Let's talk about. About the profits of these companies. Metta is worth more than $1 trillion. YouTube is worth more than half a trillion dollars. Its parent company, Alphabet Inc. Is worth more than $3 trillion. Could these companies just absorb the cost and keep doing business, find a way to keep doing business as usual?
- [48:47]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
I mean, when we look, Kristen, at the individual judgments here, Right. You're looking at a $375 million judgment in New Mexico, and that's a slightly different issue. It is a different issue than the one that was settled in L. A. But both of them sort of surround the idea that there is harm being done and a responsibility on the part of the companies in both of those cases. Right. You're looking at numbers that really are a rounding error in the balance sheets of these companies. Of course.
- [49:12]
Senator Tammy Duckworth
Right.
- [49:12]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
The $3 million judgment for this one plaintiff in L. A. No way. But you look at the 350 other family cases coming down the pipeline. You look at the two, you know that those alone, if you use this math. 3 million per plaintiff. That ends up being in the billions. Right. Or at least over a billion. If you look at the math of the school districts, 250 of which are lined up to file suit, and you think about thousands of students per school district, you're suddenly getting to some very large numbers. And so whether these companies can afford this in a dollars and cents way, you know, I think we can. We'll. We'll figure that out. Time will tell. But the incentive, which they did not face before now, is to change the way they do business, because there is suddenly l In the United States, Kristen, we don't make a lot of changes to how companies do business or, you know, companies don't make a change unless there's financial harm. This was an industry so enormous that we couldn't have imagined doing enough financial harm to make it possible for them to even consider changing. Now those incentives are shifting in a way that we haven't seen, I would say, since the era of big tobacco, since the era of lead paint. Right. These are enormous kinds of judgments that have to come through for a company to consider changing how they do business. And so I just think that we're probably, even though we're going to see endless appeal, this is not by any means settled in court. I think that it is at the first, for the first time, operating at a scale that really touches these companies in a very new way.
- [50:44]
Kristen Welker
Look, before I let you go, I do have to shift gears. I want to show you this sort of extraordinary scene at the White House today. An AI powered robot escorted first lady Melania Trump into a summit on technology and education and opened the summit. Jacob, by actually speaking, it's kind of out of a movie. What were your thoughts when you saw this? What do we take from this moment? What are the implications?
- [51:14]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
I cannot believe that I'm speaking to you on the same day that a jury of, of 12 people, you know, decided we needed to protect kids in this whole new way, established this entirely new idea of harm. And at the same time, you've got this imagery going on. I mean, we have. The reason we're seeing these court cases move forward is because at the federal level, no one's been willing to make the kinds of laws that, that, that democracy has clearly been clamoring for. You know, when I spoke to the, the attorney general general in the New Mexico case, he said, I don't want to have to do this court case by court case, but because we're not getting federal action, we have to. And when you see, I honestly don't know, Christian, but I assume that's Elon Musk's robot, right? When you see the pro tech cabal that is in the White House now and the ways in which they are trying to just open the floodgates for that industry, and you compare that to how the first, you know, this jury of our peers has enacted the first real sort of Democratic input into what everyday Americans want to see from these sorts of companies, the contrast between these two things could not be starker, Kristen.
- [52:26]
Monica Alba
All right.
- [52:27]
Kristen Welker
Jacob Ward, thank you so much for your insights today. We really appreciate it. Good to see you as always.
- [52:32]
Chuck Schumer / Jacob Ward (context dependent)
Thanks, Kristen.
- [52:34]
Kristen Welker
And still to come, Democrats add to their special election winning streak, securing eight a stunning upset in a solidly red Florida House district that includes Mar A Lago. That story's next on MEET THE PRESS now. Welcome back. Turning now to new signs of trouble for Republicans heading into the midterms after Democrats pulled off a surprising victory in President Trump's backyard, literally his backyard, Democrats flipping a Republican held Florida state House district that includes Mar A Lago. Emily Gregory, defeating the Trump endorsed Republican John Maples last night in a district the president won by double digits in 2024. Democrats have now flipped at least 10 seats in state legislative special elections since President Trump returned to the White House last January. Republicans have not flipped any at this point. Joining me now is Scott Wong, senior congressional reporter for NBC News. Scott, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it.
- [53:36]
Scott Wong
Thanks for having me.
- [53:37]
Kristen Welker
So you've been working the phones all day. What are the reactions that you're hearing from both sides of the aisle so far?
- [53:42]
Scott Wong
Well, in fact, I ran into on Capitol Hill the chair, chair people of both the House Republican Campaign Committee and the Democratic Campaign Committee and obviously very different views. Rich Hudson, the Republican who's trying to hang on to the majority, says he's downplaying these results. He says, look, you know, these special elections, they're low turnout. This is a Democratic county that's represented by Democratic Congresswoman Lois Frankel. But Susan Del Bene of Washington State, she's the Democratic chairperson, they're raring to take back the House. And she's saying, look, this shows the energy of the voters that they are positioning themselves against Trump, that they're upset with, you know, the way the country's going, that the high energy prices, the high food costs, they don't like the war. And so, you know, they are seeing this as a real sign that they are poised to take back the majority in November.
- [54:48]
Kristen Welker
Let me read you what House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries had to say. Also celebrating last night, night, we will crush House Republicans in November if DeSantis tries to gerrymander the Florida congressional map. Do you think that last night's results hinder the redistricting efforts in Florida? What's the impact?
- [55:06]
Scott Wong
I think that it's giving Republicans, you know, they're taking a little bit of a pause here.
- [55:11]
Kristen Welker
Interesting.
- [55:12]
Scott Wong
Because, you know, look, if you have governors like Ron DeSantis plowing ahead with more redistricting efforts, Democrats are saying that could backfire on you guys. That could, in fact create more competitive seats in a place like Florida. We saw already, you know, how Democrats responded with Gavin Newsom and Nancy Pelosi in California. They pursued their own redistricting. They're going to net a handful of seats in California. You know, something similar could happen in Florida where you have more seats at play and it actually could backfire against Mike Johnson and the Republicans.
- [55:52]
Kristen Welker
Well, it's just fascinating. Scott Wong, thank you for bringing us those conversations. We really appreciate it. We appreciate your reporting as well. Thanks for being here in person. Thank you for joining us. We will be back tomorrow with more MEET THE Press now. There is much more ahead on NBC News.
- [56:08]
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