← Men In Blazers
Men In Blazers
France’s Depth, Messi’s Back, and Norway’s Potential: Cup of Cups Preview 06/09/26
00:35:55
Loading summary
Transcript113 lines
- [00:00]
Roger Bennett
For nearly two decades, almost as long as Tim Ream has been in the U.S. men's National Team, All State has bat the growth of this game in every corner of this great footballing nation, from grassroots pitches to the biggest stages, they've been here believing in it, protecting its future. Because supporting soccer, it's not just about match days. And that's why All State offers affordable coverage at personalised rates, so you can spend less time worrying and and more time watching. Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. Visit allstate.com or call a local agent today. Allstate. You're in good hands. Potential savings vary subject to terms and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. It's Rog here to sing my praise for a very special New balance football boot, the 442. It's no nonsense workhorse midfielders and defenders don't ones who do the dirty work but also ping a pass to perfection. It's a classic boot design with modern enhancements with an ultra lightweight sole. Synthetic microfiber material retains a soft premium in hand feel, allowing for the lighter weight, the superior touch on the ball. Get a pair for yourself or the
- [01:09]
Michael Davies
footballer and your family.
- [01:11]
Roger Bennett
At NewBalance.com Soccer, we are delighted to bring you the Men in Blazers City Guides presented by Visa, a joyously assembled guide to the best places to eat, drink and explore and watch the beautiful game across the country. It's a guide aimed at helping fans experience the city as a local. It's built by you, our listeners, recommending some of the best small businesses in your communities, like the finest Viet Cajun in Houston.
- [01:40]
Michael Davies
Yes.
- [01:40]
Roger Bennett
The best burrito in San Francisco.
- [01:42]
Michael Davies
Yes.
- [01:43]
Roger Bennett
Where to save a lemon pepper wet in Atlanta.
- [01:47]
Michael Davies
Yes.
- [01:47]
Roger Bennett
Yes.
- [01:48]
Michael Davies
Yes. Yes.
- [01:49]
Roger Bennett
A massive shout out to our sponsor, Visa, who's made this guide possible. Visa gives local business owners the tools and support to be ready for moments exactly like this one. Welcoming you to enjoy the games this summer. Start planning your journey@meninblazers.com CityGuides. You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network, Suboptimal Radio.
- [02:13]
Rory Smith
I'm really surprised Messi's here. I'm really surprised that Messi didn't see what happened in 2022 as the perfect way to sign off from international football. He's definitely kind of a throwback to an era where players kind of made their reputations in the World cup, but Mbappe's done it the other way around. He's kind of Francis Kylian Mbappe rather than like a club player, which is unusual and possibly unique. It's not quite fair to represent Norway as like erling Haaland plus 10 of the guys. But it does feel as though it's his chance to kind of lay claim to this tournament and marked himself out as a genuine superstar.
- [02:50]
Michael Davies
Welcome back to your cup of cup preview Reviews presented by Camarena. We're deep into the Alphabet. I and J featuring both of last tournament's finalists. Cliffhanger much. Can Argentina run it back with many of the same guys who run it four years ago? And is France the most stacked cast since Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey? I happen to be joined by the Matt Damon of football analysis, it's Mr. Rory Smith.
- [03:13]
Rory Smith
We're running out of letters, Rog.
- [03:15]
Michael Davies
We'll just go again. World Cup 2074, whatever will be like Group AA. And we'll think nostalgically to the time it was just 48.
- [03:24]
Rory Smith
48 teams was the perfect amount. Roger, say yeah, yeah.
- [03:27]
Michael Davies
It was just per 104 games. It was. Oh, just right. So let's start at Group I for I, Caramba. Because if there's death to be had in a new World cup format where 2/3 of the third place teams advance, this one is probably the death rattliest. France finalists in the last two editions, Norway's Erling Haaland let loose. It is nation's first international tournament in a generation. Senegal, who hold and parade out that African nations cup that they may or may not have won. And Iraq, who win the nickname sweepstakes with the Lions of mesopotamia for the first time in 40 years. Or is it fair to say this is the most mortality curious of all the groups?
- [04:05]
Rory Smith
Yeah, it's like mortality adjacent, isn't it? It's not quite a group of death because too many teams get through. So as long as everybody beats Iraq, or as long as Iraq win one game against somebody else, then maybe three of them can get through. But there is a little bit of a risk in this group that one of the big names goes home early.
- [04:22]
Michael Davies
Thin line between Groupo death and group of Life. Today's episode is presented by our great friends at Camarena Tequila. Wherever you're enjoying the beautiful game, be sure to kick off with Camarena. Kickoff in England means something very, very different. But France, let's start with them. Captained by now 27 year old Killian Abaft. It's hard to believe. Still a baby.
- [04:42]
Rory Smith
In my imagination he's still a teenager, isn't he?
- [04:44]
Michael Davies
There'll be a perpetual blur of speed and legs and e go and big cup. Mo he's back at the tournament where he's made his Most indelible contributions. 2018 A winner scoring four goals, including one in the final. First team to do that since some kid called Pele. Last time he hoisted the whole nation on his back. Scored eight times, including that final hat trick losing to Argentina, agonizingly on penalties. But life is not a straight line and since then, Mbappe has become somewhat of an albatross. In the past five years, Paris St Germain and Real Madrid have won four Champions League between them. Mbappe has won zero, despite paying for both of those teams. Oh, we laugh because otherwise we cry, but French roar. Completely different story. One goal behind the all time French scoring record. If he bags five this summer, he'll become the leading goal scorer in the men's tournament in history. Rour is Mbappe just a magnificent historical anomaly who saves his best moments for the international stage, not for the club shirt?
- [05:42]
Rory Smith
He's definitely kind of a throwback to an era where players kind of made their reputations in the World cup, that what they did for their country outweighed what they did for their clubs. And that doesn't really happen anymore because the Premier League and the Champions League in particular have such kind of a weight on like our day to day imagination around the game. That's where you forge your reputation, it's where you make your legend. And then the World cup is this thing that kind of rolls around every four years and it's almost, I guess, the icing on the cake more than anything. But Mbappe's done it the other way around. As you say, like probably the greatest achievement of his career is winning the World cup with France at the age of 18. The greatest individual performance of his career is the World cup final hat trick that didn't win him the World cup in 2022. Whereas at club level, he's not really had that defining moment either for PSG or for Real Madrid. He's won some French titles. Well done. He scored some big goals for real, but no major trophies. He's kind of Francis Kylian Mbappe rather than like a club player, which is unusual and possibly unique.
- [06:44]
Michael Davies
And the one thing maybe I share with Kylian Mbappe so far is that we both peaked very early in our teams. This is not about Mace, it's about France and this team is utterly loaded.
- [06:54]
Roger Bennett
Silence.
- [06:55]
Michael Davies
Mbappe set to cope with the reigning Ballon d' or winner, Ousmane Dembele, who's his two footed There's a number of Champions League trophies he's won over the past two years. Or Michael Alise, genius avant garde by a Munich maverick, perhaps the most informed attacker in the world. This season you got impish, mischievous Manchester City delight, Ryan Turkey, probably on the bench. The no look pass in human form look. All of this has its roots in the 1970s when to revamp its national pedigree, France started building centre the formation 16 training academies all over the country, most famous of which is probably Clairefontaine, offering free access to elite footballers to develop their skills. And it's worked. They won Euro 1984, World Cup 1998 at home and then the following Euro race. But raw, when this current roster unpacks at the downtown four seasons in Boston, which will be their base camp for the summer, it is truly stat like Pringles, it could possibly be the deepest World cup squad of all time. Does it have any inherent weakness?
- [07:55]
Rory Smith
Not really weakness, no. I mean, France could have named a second squad of 26 players that probably would also have won the World cup, which is genuinely extraordinary, that the amount of talent France produces is kind of hard to grasp. Just the sheer kind of numbers of players that are there for Didier Deschamps to call up if he wants.
- [08:14]
Michael Davies
By the way, I love the idea of a French second string winning the World cup, which would be the ultimate dream for all. The Kylian Mbappe haters would love that, the notion of a French second team winning a trophy without him. But we're not here to hate. We're here to talk about one of the most fascinating complexities in this roster, which is the gent who oversees it as he has, it should be said, for the past 14 years, Didier Deschamps, one of the elitely tiny small number of players to win the World cup, both as a player and the manager, guided France to two consecutive World cup finals. And despite all that pedigree, it often feels like Deschamp is just there. He kind of exists. Low on aura, low on charisma, not viewed as a coveted manager that's going to be prized away, but still his resume can't be doubted. He's gone through a process which has been called oxygenization, breathing new faces into a deeply talented roster. He said, quote, I'm not nostalgic, I don't look to the past, I But ultimately France will go as Didier Deschamps goes, in that he's got the unenviable task of talent management. All that talent, all that ego, and only 11 of them can Start. That's some unique set of problems.
- [09:20]
Rory Smith
He was nicknamed the Water Carrier by eric Cantona in 1998 when France won the World Cup. He was kind of the guy who did the work for the more talented people on the team, and he's kind of taken that approach to this French side. So as much as they have for the last 10, 12, 14 years had this incredible array of attacking talent, Deschamps has always kind of kept them on quite a tight leash that he doesn't that France never kind of ripped through teams. They never. They always seem to be playing slightly within themselves, which creates unhappiness certainly among the fan base because they feel like actually we could be beating these teams much more heavily. But then you wonder like, maybe that's the secret of his success, because as you say, you can't really argue with results. I guess the complexity this time is there's even more talent. There's even more talent. You listed the players and you didn't mention Desiree Douay. You didn't mention Bradley Barcola. Like, they have so many of these players who will want to be in the team and will want to be expressing themselves. Can Deschamp do that while still kind of building the structure and the organization he needs to actually get France to the final?
- [10:26]
Michael Davies
We'll find out in their very first game June 16 in New Jersey come against former colony Senegal. Just like in 2002, nothing could possibly go wrong here. Back then, reigning champion France was sensationally upsmart by a whip smart, whip quick Senegal in the opening game of the tournament. 1 nil set the tone for a really wild opening round. That summer, Senegal went all the way to the quarterfinals. If they're underestimated, then not anymore. The Lions of Turanga, highest ranked team out of Africa. That's one for all you David Attenborough fans at home 31 friendly winner Wembley last June. Since then, coach Papa chow joined late 2024 and Senegal have lost just two games on the field. Friendly to Brazil and of course last week against a resurgent. You can't stop Christian Pulisic in the USA. Plus technically most recent AFCON final. Though no one in Senegal is giving that trophy back. The U.S. beat them at the weekend on a fairly odd spongy field in Charlotte Asterix. So this team unbeaten in qualifying, conceding only thrice their fans were brightly coloured. The body paint oft head geared, facing a near total travel ban. Raw, you've got afcon. Also chip on the shoulder. Will any team enter this tournament propelled by Such a vast sense of righteous indignation.
- [11:39]
Rory Smith
Yeah, Senegal will kind of want to prove they're the rightful champions of Africa. I think leaving aside, you know, the memories of 2002 when they beat France in that opening game, that still stands as one of the great shocks. They'll definitely kind of arrive in the States wanting to prove they're the rightful champions of Africa, which they kind of are. In my head, just my memory of that game is Senegal won 1 nil. After a dole in extra time, Morocco got a very controversial penalty as the home team Senegal got a little bit suspicious. They walked off the pitch. They were eventually persuaded back onto the pitch largely by their captain, Sadio Mane. Brahim Diaz, the Morocco player, took the penalty, missed the penalty. The game then went all the way through extra time, went to a penalty shootout, which Senegal won, making them champions of Africa. Until several months later, caf, the African Federation, told them that actually the match had been annulled and now Morocco were
- [12:27]
Michael Davies
champions and that Senegal had to give the trophy back. Senegal were like, nope, Senegal don't know
- [12:32]
Rory Smith
where the trophy is. It's very hard. You've got to pay a lot of postage on it. It's very expensive.
- [12:36]
Michael Davies
And they do parade it out at very, very opportune moments.
- [12:39]
Rory Smith
So there is that kind of sense of injustice. I think for Senegal, the whole thing is very complicated and very messy, but it does feel an awful lot like Senegal maybe did win that game under the conditions and you can't just reverse the result. But they also have a huge amount of quality, Raj. They've got such a kind of deep squad, but they've also got the talent to kind of live up to that reputation.
- [12:59]
Michael Davies
Do they have this roster topped by all time leading national scorer Sadio mane, that footballing UK Premier League and the Champions League from his time with you at Liverpool. One last tournament in him, at least at age 34 before he said he'll retire. Internationally maneuver, join the wildly uncalibrated Nico Jackson, Everton surreal artist Dillermann, and and die with Crystal Palace's European champion Ismaila Sar in reserve for a population of around 20 million. It's got to be said Senegal cranks out elite footballers largely thanks to a series of state of the art academies that have cropped up across the nation in the past couple of decades, which has been bolstered by their savvy recruitment of diaspora players, largely from France. Thirteen of the current roster comes through the domestic academies, but they tend to feed almost instantly to Europe instead of into the local clubs. The 13 players. This is amazing. They cost the combined $116,000 in transfer fees when they were sold onto academies in Europe's major leagues. They've since been flipped for a combined $94 million. That's some incredible machine rule. I'm not sure it actually helps the. I'm not sure actually helps the Senegalese domestic game. Somebody's making money.
- [14:11]
Rory Smith
The problem is that Senegal doesn't see the benefits of the money that talent goes on to make. And it does feel as though that's a, that's another flaw in the model. They have got these, these academies that do find young talent in Senegal that do give them high quality training and then do send them on to European clubs, often through like partnership arrangements. Surprising number of Senegalese players come through the French team Metz because of a partnership arrangement between Mets and one of the academies in Senegal. But you do see the amount of money that European clubs pay for them when they are kind of game ready. And you wonder whether it might not be better for Senegal if that money was going directly, directly into the Senegalese system rather than to the French clubs that have taken them out of Africa.
- [14:52]
Michael Davies
A team that I cannot wait to witness. Norway back in the tournament for the first time since 1998. Erling Haaland and Martin Odegaard coming together to propel their boys to a perfect record in qualifying. Eight wins out of eight helped dunk Italy out of the World Cup. Along the way campaigning, including an 11:1 demolition of Paul Moldova. Wouldn't somebody think of the Moldovans? Big Earl milked his way to 16 goals in those eight games. Man obliterated Norway's 87 year old scoring record. The age of just 24. He's got more goals than caps for Norway. Heads into his first international tournament admitting he feels more relief than happy. Real quote, does a lot of pressure and stuff.
- [15:34]
Rory Smith
He's so eloquent.
- [15:36]
Michael Davies
He's a poet as well as a goal score. Who says you can't do it all? Is this the summer that Erling Haaland announced himself as the single most recognizable player on the planet?
- [15:45]
Rory Smith
It's not quite fair to represent Norway as like erling Haaland plus 10 of the guys. But it does feel as though obviously he's the standard bearer, obviously he's the talisman. But he is kind of one of the great characters of the modern game as well. And I think from his point of view this isn't just a chance to prove that, you know, he is one of the best footballers in Norway's history or that he's the person who can take them out of the group stage at the World Cup. It's his chance to kind of lay claim to this tournament and mark himself out as a genuine superstar rather than kind of the dull cyborg who plays up front for Manchester City, the global
- [16:19]
Michael Davies
superstar he would love. I mean, there is a chance here to be the face of the game in the United States. Kylian Mbappe actually actively wants that. Massive NBA fan. He senses the power for the future of his career. I think Erling Haaland wants that too. Can do that too. And you're right, it's not 10 plus Big Earl. This is a team that the nation is so unbelievably proud of. Kind of really moving. Watching the Norwegian squad get unveiled by the country's monarch, King Harald V himself. Best Harold since Kane talked beautifully about how his nation has waited, quote, a long time to return to the World Cup. This is a real quote. The hope has lived on. On gravel, on grass and artificial turf, across long distances, ferries and mountain passes. That's what's wrong with the game in America. We don't do enough football on ferries. It does remain to be seen how fit Martin Erdogan is after the rigors of, you know, the Arsenal trophy celebration. Atletico Madrid's Alexander saw off powerfully physical, forced. Crystal Palace's Jurgen Strand Larsen is not chopped liver and Oscar Boba. Fulham also knows where the net is on occasion. That attack is peerless. But the squad, particularly the limited defensive options, may end the flow of Aquavit after game success pretty, pretty early. This is an incredibly talented squad for a nation whose population is smaller than West Scotland. In pound for pound, they might be one of the best in the world.
- [17:38]
Rory Smith
Yeah, they produce a huge amount of talent. And to be honest, not just in soccer at the moment. Norway's kind of dominance of lots of different sports from like middle distance running to tennis and golf. They've got superstars in everything. It's not just stuff they can do more than just slide down mountains. The Norwegians, that's what we've discovered in recent years.
- [17:55]
Michael Davies
Black belt in chess, man.
- [17:56]
Rory Smith
The black belt in chess. Exactly. Magnus Carlsen, I think. I think Norway's approach might have to be to try and outscore teams because they do have this incredibly stacked front line. The defence is decent. They're okay. They won't be kind of overly vulnerable. But there's no real superstars in there. Players like Oster Bob and Arby Leipzig's Antonio Noosa. It's in the creative role with Martin Odegaard and then it's all of their massive strikers. Those, you know, the players you've named, Sorloth, Stran, Larsen, Haaland are some of the biggest, some of the biggest humans at this tournament and that is ultimately kind of an advantage. So I think as the tournament wears on, Norway to stay in it probably have to take the approach that attack is the best form of defence.
- [18:36]
Michael Davies
Those giants, that massive human flesh may not win the World cup, but they would fancy their chances in a royal rumble. Last member of group I most arduous journey to get their really, truly grueling campaign over 28 months and a tournament high of 21 games to qualify, it's Iraq also faced near impossible logistics. During the playoffs, the entire nations airspace was shut down because of nearby conflict. The team, 60% of which is based domestically, mostly for Baghdadi clubs, had to take 10 hour bus rides from Jordan, catch a flight to Mexico for the intercontinental qualifier journey. The player said was quote hell. But their Australian manager Graham Arnold said was the best option out of plans A to F. He himself was grounded in Dubai. Once in Mexico, the team soared. They beat Bolivia 21 in Monterrey and they qualified. It's quite moving watching the fans both watching the fans, both Iraqi and Mexican, rush the pitch. Mexican fans embrace this team through flags, through sombrero from the stands. Players posed topless with those sombreros on. And you saw in that moment it was another example of a football team thriving because of not despite the agony of their nation.
- [19:44]
Rory Smith
It gives them a motivating force, doesn't it? Like an animus behind what they're doing, a sense of purpose that maybe feels more immediate than it does for some other countries who kind of expect to be here. That there is very clearly like an aspect of nation building about being at the World Cup. For teams like Iraq, the complications didn't stop when they qualified. They had five players refused visas initially. It means so much for the Iraqis to be here. It is such a chance for them on a bigger world stage than you can get anywhere else. So that you know, as you say, 28 months, all the kind of challenges they faced, all of the logistical difficulties, all that stuff is worth it to be at the World cup regardless of what happens once the tournament starts.
- [20:21]
Michael Davies
Most important, least important thing and then some. It's time for our spoiler alert. Your match to watch in Groupon.
- [20:28]
Rory Smith
It's really hard to pick because any combination of Senegal, Norway and France is going to be great. I think France, Norway is the obvious one.
- [20:35]
Michael Davies
June 26, definitely top three marquee clash of that opening round. I'm going to be quite emotional watching Iraq back in the tournament against Haaland in Boston on June 16th. I don't know how you say bionic in Arabic. The player you're looking out for, I'm
- [20:50]
Rory Smith
going to go for one just to butter you up. Rog. Ilian Jai for Senegal.
- [20:54]
Michael Davies
Why are you buttering me up?
- [20:56]
Rory Smith
He's an Evertonian.
- [20:57]
Michael Davies
Was probably by the time you're watching this or by the end of the
- [21:01]
Rory Smith
World cup, he will still be an Everton icon by the end of the World Cup.
- [21:03]
Michael Davies
But look at me, I'm distancing. I'm not my heart broken.
- [21:07]
Rory Smith
It is his chance to shine.
- [21:09]
Michael Davies
God, I'm gonna enjoy watching Ryan Cherky. Just mischievous. He told me this season. He told me if a defender looks at him in the eyes, he finds it disrespectful and he wants to humiliate them. So when he grins when he's running down the wing. Can't get enough of that in my life. Who win the group?
- [21:26]
Rory Smith
France.
- [21:28]
Michael Davies
Iraq. Hot take. And with that gentleman and your boldest and your boldest pov.
- [21:33]
Rory Smith
My boldest take for this group is that this will be Didier Deschamps last tournament for France and it will not end happily.
- [21:41]
Michael Davies
C' est mort.
- [21:42]
Rory Smith
I think that they di mort di plus dit plus. I think that they will get knocked out in a way that makes the French public think that they should have been more attacking.
- [21:53]
Michael Davies
You mean a World cup off?
- [21:55]
Rory Smith
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Michael Davies
I think Iraq are going to get three points.
- [21:58]
Rory Smith
Oh, and that'll take them through. Who do you think they're taking them off, Rog?
- [22:01]
Michael Davies
Tune in to next episode to find out more.
- [22:07]
Roger Bennett
A word from our friends at 1440. The 2022 World cup final drew 1.5 billion viewers. It's 11 times this year's Super Bowl. To understand how football became the world's game and what drove it, listen to 1440 explores with financial Times journalist Simon Kuiper. It will give you the inside scoop into the depths of the tournament. Listen to 1440 explores.
- [22:29]
Michael Davies
Wherever you get your podcasts, this message
- [22:32]
Apple Card Announcer
is brought to you by Apple Card. For a limited time, when you get a new Apple card and purchase AirPods Pro 3 at Apple, you can earn back the cost up to 250 daily cash. New AirPods Pro and up to $250 bonus daily cash back. Now that's music to my ears. Subject to credit approval limitations and spend requirements apply. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and more at Apple Co AirPods
- [23:03]
Michael Davies
onto Group J for. Geez Louise, can Argentina squeeze one more out for the lads? I don't even know what that means. Raw. But four years ago, Lionel Messi, greatest male player to ever do it, not named Beto. I don't know what that means, Raw.
- [23:20]
Rory Smith
I'm not sure I want to know what it means.
- [23:23]
Michael Davies
Well, I don't know if you've heard this, but stay with me here. Four years ago, little man Lionel Messi, suddenly the greatest male ever to kick a football, finally won his first World cup at his fifth attempt. It was, quote, the dream of my life. You know, meeting Salt BAE has that effect on people. Glorious Capa. To an ecstatic career that's delighted and awed in equal measure. Inspired, honestly, so many millions around the world. Except get this, it wasn't the Capa le Messi World Cup 2. Electric boogaloo. We're getting the crazy gang together. We're going for one more heist. Raw. And shockingly, the roster has been kept largely intact. 17 players from the final in Qatar back again. Any player even started once in that World Cup. They're back again. You got feces Sturer in chief goalkeeper of the tournament last time Emi Martinez back. Rodrigo De Paul will pack up his mate mug, join into Miami. Buddy Messi, age 32. And you could argue, look, they've won the last two Copa Americas, finished top of South American qualifying by nine clear points, including a 4:1 bare bottom spanking at Brazil that sealed qualification with four games to go, prompting fireworks from the starting. Monumental rafters in Buenos Aires. On the other hand, last thing to
- [24:37]
Rory Smith
repeat was Brazil in 1962.
- [24:39]
Michael Davies
We need a sound effect there. More recently, swore cuts in full of champions who've held on too long, went one bridge too far, did not know when to say adios. We talked already about France's experience in 2002. Italy 2010, got grouped, failed to win a single game. Germany in 2018. Darkness on the edge of town. So raw, it's a bit of a leading setup. Which will this be? A glorious return to the firmament or a tournament too far for the reigning champs?
- [25:07]
Rory Smith
Do you think Italy in 2010 knew they were getting grouped? I don't think they.
- [25:10]
Michael Davies
How'd you say that in Italian?
- [25:14]
Rory Smith
Yeah. Common sense dictates that maybe Argentina should have known when to stick and when to twist a little bit with that generation of players. I'm really surprised Messi's here. I'm really surprised that Messi didn't See what happened in 2022 as the perfect way to sign off from international football. I guess you could say that it's his love of his country, his desire to perform for Argentina. But I think the other thing is maybe that Argentina can't really imagine what Argentina looks like without Lionel Messi. And he maybe felt the pressure that he has to be around, because once he's gone, the world is a cold and dark place for Argentinian football, despite all of the other talent they've got. There's something about having Messi that makes you want to keep Messi for as long as possible. But the risk, Roger, is that we had the perfect Dubai four years ago. And what if this one's rubbish?
- [26:02]
Michael Davies
How do you say you're gonna know when to hold them? Gonna know when to fold them in Spanish, Lionel? Look, let's talk about Messi. Pass his 200th cap, imminently have his 39th birthday during the tournament. Currently got the record with 26 World cup appearances, along with Cristiano, lifelong nemesis and Mexican goalkeeper Memo Ochoa, who he likely doesn't have the face off on the dartboard at home in Fort Lauderdale. He'll set a record by playing in this six World Cup. It's unheard of consistency, it's unheard of prolonged excellence. This is a man who's been hailed as the best player in the world eight times. That's eight Ballon d'. Ors. Messi spent much of the last couple of years dodging the question about whether he'd be here this summer, talking about how at this age, it would be natural to step aside. But here he is, returning as the world's most famous Florida man, sporting his Hard Rock Cafe T shirt and his jorts to don an Argentine jersey once more. Is there a world in which he can repeat the trick?
- [27:01]
Rory Smith
Yeah, I think there has to be. I think you have to admit that it is. It's possible that Argentina, what they've done really well, what Lionel Staloni, the manager's done really well, is kind of cool. A lot of the temperature that always exists around the Argentinian national team. They've got a really tight group of players that is built around Messi. He's at the centre of it. The imagery of whenever they walk out for a game is always of, like, the leader of the pack with his boys around him. That's kind of how Argentina emerge into football matches. Strollone's worked that really cleverly. He's got real team spirit. Everyone knows they have to work that little bit harder to cover for the fact that Messi is now, well, I was going to say older, but Messi stopped like running around when he was about 28. So it's not even that. They just know that Messi's there. His job is to get the ball and do stuff. He's not tracking back. Lionel Messi's not playing for Inter Miami. He really wants to track back and press. He's there to get the ball, make magic happen. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows the terms of engagement. It worked four years ago, it could work again because they do have quality. They've got players other than Messi. There's Julian Alvarez, who is, you know, who's had an outstanding season with Atletico Madrid. Talk between Barcelona and Arsenal. Now you've got Lautaro Martinez, who is a proven forward, not always the most reliable, but here's a proven forward, people like Alexis Mac Allister, who really needs to have a good World cup rog. After a disappointing season for Liverpool, he's saving himself.
- [28:22]
Michael Davies
Enzo Fernandez.
- [28:23]
Rory Smith
Enzo Fernandez at Chelsea, there is. There's plenty of quality in that team. It does take Messi to be the spark. It could work. It's just a bit of a risk.
- [28:32]
Michael Davies
Essentially what you're saying is Lionel Messi's refusal to quit is what makes him an elite athlete. Well, we're just sticking around here chewing the fat about Gelato. But Argentina's opener in Kansas city. So crazy. June 16th. Sincerely, I can't wait to see what Argentinian fans make of burnt ends. They could take that Kansas City delicacy back with them to Argentina and just adore it for generations. That kind of thought bends my brain. That game against Algeria, back in the tournament for the first time since 2014. Best showing at the World cup that year when they reached the round of 16, captained by our old friend, former Manchester City wizard Riyad Mahrez. Now Eval Ahli in Saudi Arabia, joined by current City fullback Rayan Ait Nouri, coached by Vladimir Petkovic. Jiral Nottingham, the man who took Switzerland to the round of 16, 2018 World cup in the Euro 2020 quarterfinals in goal. I love this rule. Luka Zidane, 28 year old son of Algerian French wonder Zinedine Zidane. Lucas been Algeria's first choice goalkeeper at the Africa cup of nations, but then broke his jaw and his chin in April when playing for Spanish side Granada. He's fighting his way back to Sedan in the World cup again. Raw in a lifetime. It's healing.
- [29:48]
Rory Smith
It's really nice because Luca, like Zinedine Zidane's other sons who went into football always had that slight air of, maybe he's only in Real Madrid academy because of his surname, but he's gone out and proved that he is a goalkeeper. It's weird that Zinedine Zidane's kid is a goalkeeper, but he's gone out and
- [30:05]
Michael Davies
proved that he's like Jurgen Klinsman's kid.
- [30:07]
Rory Smith
Jonathan is that. Yeah, he is. Jonathan Klinsmann is a goalkeeper. What is it about them that makes them want to do the opposite to their dad's?
- [30:14]
Michael Davies
Dad, I'm not you. You'll never understand me.
- [30:16]
Rory Smith
Well, maybe it's the one position where
- [30:19]
Michael Davies
I love using my hands. Dad, you don't understand me.
- [30:23]
Rory Smith
But maybe it's the one position where they're not like, well, I'm not gonna be compared to my dad here. Like, no one's looking at Jonathan Klinsmann and going, well, Jurgen would have dived for that. Or maybe with Jurgen Klinsmann, they are talking about diving.
- [30:33]
Michael Davies
It's hard to say. Jurgen would never have been beaten at his near post.
- [30:36]
Rory Smith
Exactly.
- [30:36]
Michael Davies
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Rory Smith
So maybe that's. Maybe it's a safe space for them to kind of explore their talent. But I think it's really kind of warming to see Luther Zidane having built himself a career on his own merit in his own position. I guess we just have to hope that his World cup doesn't end like Zinedine Zidane's last World cup did, with an act of brutal violence against an Italian. But it won't, because there's no Italians.
- [31:01]
Michael Davies
Luca, you go and have yours. Algeria's first appearance at a World cup infamous. They won two games somehow still got eliminated somehow doing a lot of heavy lifting here. West Germany, Austria, in their third game, realized they could both get through at Algeria's expense if somehow West Germany won 1 nil. West Germany scored early, and then the two Habsburg teams combined to just pass the ball lazily around the centre circle in a game as close to fixed as can be. Widely known as the disgrace of Hehon. FIFA quickly changed the rules to make sure the final group stage games all happen at the same time. But God bless history, because this World Cup, Algeria have a chance for revenge. Belatedly, they face Austria again, the Wunder team. Let me translate that for those of you are not as agile in your German as I am. I think it means wonder team. They've been fairly modest in their fleeting modern World Cups. Made the round of 16 in the Euros 20, 20 and 24. They're now under Ralf Rangnick, pathfinding high press priest whose footballing stars come to define modern German club football. Influence, really. And influence followers like Jurgen Klopp. Rangnick established a Red Bull system of play where many of these Austrians have come from, like their stud RB Leipzig midfielder Kristof Baumgarder. They play a high octane football that's really delirious to watch when it clicks.
- [32:17]
Rory Smith
Yeah, they've been really good under round it. I think it really helps that they've got so many players who came through that Red Bull stall, who play that Red Bull style of high pressing, ultra intense, quick turnovers, getting the ball back within eight seconds and just going straight forward trying to score.
- [32:32]
Michael Davies
Easy for a club team, hard for an international team. If you all, unless you all have that same shared muscle memory, well, that's it.
- [32:38]
Rory Smith
So they're kind of. A lot of them are watered into an international team that's playing the same way that they play in the club game. You've got a lot of players who are based in Germany, which helps because even if they're not playing within the Red Bull system, they are probably playing a high press style of football because that is kind of the orthodoxy in the Bundesliga. Rangnick is a really talented coach. He's got a core of players who he can work with, who he's been able to implement that style with. I think low key will be quite a strong proposition. They've got a player like Konrad Limer at Bayern Munich who's kind of this auxiliary right back, left back, central midfielder, can do everything, often does do everything, weirdly for an Austrian, a Swiss army knife player. I don't know how that works. I don't know if that's culturally inappropriate or insensitive. It might be they have that kind of versatility, that instinctive understanding of what the system needs. That's quite a good thing to have at a World Cup.
- [33:25]
Michael Davies
Making up the group in their first ever World cup appearance, it's Jordan. The culmination of a long, slow, quiet build up of Jordanese football, both at the domestic level and with this national team where a sequence of Moroccan managers brought the best era in the country's footballing history. They're currently helmed by Jamal Salami. The roster features just two European players, a rest spread across Africa, Middle east and Asia. They've come such a long way from 2016 when they turned to English journeyman Harry Redknapp, who took a break from the wheeling and dealing on transfer day for two games. An 8 nil win over Bangladesh, which must have felt amazing. 51 loss to Australia and Harry bounced. Jordan have a sweet nickname, Al Nashima the Brave. And the players have talked openly about the sleepless nights they're experiencing as they charge towards this World Cup. Look, Asia's field has grown from four to eight qualifiers. But that's not the sole story between Jordan's appearance, is it?
- [34:20]
Rory Smith
No, what you've got is a country that has invested really intelligently in football, that's grown its resources, that's grown its playing base and has got the rewards for it. And there's a temptation, I think, with a lot of these stories to say, oh, it's because the World cup is 48 teams now that it's reduced the quality. Jordan got through automatically. Jordan were the early qualifiers in Asia along with Uzbekistan. This is not a kind of expansion team. They would have got into a 32 team World Cup. You can make the case that because there were more spots available, the pressure was off a little bit and it felt more attainable. But they've made this tournament their first ever World cup entirely on their own merit. They're to be taken seriously. They're not here like all of these teams, they're not here as tourists. They're here to compete. And the fact that they are here means they're good enough to compete.
- [35:03]
Michael Davies
I love the scenes in a Man. When they did qualify, there were car horns blaring, street parties that lasted into the next day. A drone light show in the sky. Sky above their football stadium with the traditional footballing images of the royal family and the fighter jet. It is a constitutional monarchy. Jordan, the society is ultimately an often uneasy collection of tribes and Bedouin confederations united, really united in many ways by their fanatical obsession with the game of football. Jordan is proof of the powerful role this game can play culturally.
- [35:40]
Rory Smith
It's amazing that within Jordan, the two biggest teams are kind of separated along ethnic lines. One is drawn largely from the Palestinian refugee community and one is more ethnic Jordanian. But they both come together for the national team. And it is a kind of unifying force. And it sounds cheesy and corny to say that, but it's true that the entirety of Jordan will support Jordan at the World Cup. And that is ultimately, without wanting to sound too much like I worked for FIFA, that is a force for good.
- [36:09]
Michael Davies
And it's also a force for Pakshisha bars on El Shahid street where they'll be discussing many of the things that we are now raw as we spoiler Alert Group J. What are you going to watch?
- [36:20]
Rory Smith
I think it's the opener. The moment that Argentina arrive at any World cup is always a moment to celebrate. So it's Argentina against Algeria In Kansas City, Missouri, you'll be there.
- [36:30]
Michael Davies
Oh, on June 16th. I'm looking forward to that. Grudge match to Argentina. Austria. Last matchday June 27th again in Kansas City, which will be even tastier than some brisket at Arthur Bryant's. The player to look out for.
- [36:43]
Rory Smith
I mean, Messi will be the center of attention, but I don't know. For Julian Alvarez, I think this could well be a tournament where he really steps up as a proper star.
- [36:50]
Michael Davies
I'm looking at another Argentine, 21 year old Nico Paz. Just drag Como into the Champions League in wondrous ways. Will be on his way to Real Madrid this summer. I think this will be the moment when he makes the whole world know his name. He's going to win this group.
- [37:05]
Rory Smith
I think it'll be Argentina. Roger. I think they'll get through the group.
- [37:08]
Michael Davies
I'm just going to be controversial and say Austria because I like to keep things interesting. Their style of play, I love it. It's called lawn ball in German.
- [37:15]
Rory Smith
Your boldest take beyond Lutzidane, not headbutting anybody. I think Argentina get knocked out in the quarter finals.
- [37:23]
Michael Davies
I think Lucas Zidane's just going to kiss all opponents on the forehead. Do the opposite of what your dad does in life and great things will happen to you too. Viewers, just one more cup of Cups preview pod for you. Mostly because we're running out of letters. It's groups K and L. Does Cristiano Ronaldo make Portugal better? Question at age 41 and England is their national saviour. Is he a chairman?
- [37:50]
Rory Smith
Well, like the Royal Family. Roger
- [37:55]
Michael Davies
Royal. Jordan Pickford's the only Royal that I believe in. Go back and be sure to catch our other group previews if you missed them and come and join us during the tournament itself. We're going to coast to coast for men in blazers. American road trip raw. Me and a cast of thousands going coast to coast. La, Seattle, Louisiana, and then across the country. We got a bus, we got a morning show, morning cup date. We got a night show, night cup. We're going to be with you day and night in person. If you come and be with us us at our match day live. Think college game day, city to city. For more go to meninblazers.com come be with us if you're there in present or if you are there afar we're there to raise a glass with you. And remember today's episode presented by our great friends at Camarena Tequila. You tell us if you think Austria are going to win the group yet and how Lionel Messi's march of wonder is going to go. Wherever you're enjoying the beautiful game, be sure to kick off off with a Camarilla courage.