Messi's Argentina pull off another miracle and knock out England: Night Cup 07/15/26

Summary

---

Episode Overview

Title: Messi's Argentina pull off another miracle and knock out England: Night Cup 07/15/26
Podcast: Men In Blazers
Date: July 15, 2026
Location: Live from Atlanta
Theme:
A reflection on a World Cup semi-final for the ages: Argentina’s astonishing late comeback to defeat England 2-1, plumbing the depths of historic rivalry, national identity, suffering, and the eternal magic of Lionel Messi. The hosts dissect the match as a modern sporting epic, blending football analysis with discussions on emotion, history, and the unique traditions of both nations.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Match as Modern Epic: Argentina vs England Rivalry

• The hosts frame the game as a collision of “biblical” scale, charged with history, war, colonialism, and national trauma.
• “[This] was a clash of football. Yeah, but it was also about war and nationalism, politics, empire, colonialism, the death of empire, collective memory.” (A, 00:31)
• The game is woven intimately into the cultural DNA of both countries, with particular weight for Argentina, where “football’s how their foreign policy’s played out.” (A, 03:32)
• England’s own wounds: 1986 Maradona "Hand of God," 1998 Beckham red card, “60 years of hurt” since 1966, and ongoing trauma of recent near-misses. (A, 05:25)

2. Atmosphere in Atlanta & Argentine Identity

• “Enormous numbers of Argentinians have poured into this city…living, breathing Buenos Aires.” (A, 08:40)
• “There are 50,000 Argentinians in that stadium and there's probably as many in the fan park and they are going to have a party.” (B, 09:13)
• The hosts note how the “noise in that stadium kind of swirls around...a cauldron.” (B, 10:22)
• The emotional intensity is heightened: English anthem thoroughly booed; fans on both sides tense, nervous, and ecstatic by turns.

3. First Half: Tactical Grit & “Dark Arts”

• The clash quickly devolves into fouls, “prison rules, shivs out of anal cavities type of football." (A, 11:59)
• Argentina’s approach: break up England’s rhythm, use calculated fouls (“rotating who was doing the fouling, so everyone got their first one free” - B, 19:08)
• Argentine “Picardía”: “Little vein of spite, villainous…what makes Argentine football so special.” (B, 16:21)
• Match statistics: First 30 minutes without a shot, “combined XG 0.08,” brutal, zero rhythm. (A, 20:18)

Notable Quotes

• “Sports is not war, but for Argentina, this game, it kind of is.” (A, 03:32)
• “There's a whole philosophy within Argentina of dark arts.” (A, 16:42)

4. The Referee’s Role

• US-based referee criticized (though ultimately not blamed for the result), “let everything go. I mean, everything.” (A, 17:21)
• “He was definitely refereeing the occasion, not the actual game.” (A, 20:18)
• This leniency suits Argentina’s preferred chaos and physicality.

5. Second Half: English Hope, Argentine Siege

• England’s Goal (Anthony Gordon, 53:00):
  • “He anticipated it…a very difficult finish look incredibly effortless.” (A, 24:52–25:22)
  • “For the first time…Argentina had been caught and England had punished them.” (B, 25:43)
• Hosts liken the experience to a scene from Die Hard: England on the verge of triumph before chaos resumes. (A, 27:27)
• After the goal, Argentina take over, mounting relentless pressure. “From about the 58th, 59th minute, it started to feel like a siege.” (B, 31:04)
• England retreat into a defensive shell—“the inferiority complex to rise back to the surface.” (C, 34:12)
• England go “full Pulis” with four central defenders, ceding control and inviting pressure.

Notable Quotes

• “We were meant to get a little more German. Your theory is...he became very English in that moment.” (A-C, 34:06)
• “Desperate attack against frenzied defense. The English Bash Brothers. It's just Dan Byrne.” (A, 33:04)

6. The Argentine Comeback: Magic or Self-Destruction?

• Enzo Fernández Equalizer (85'):
  • “Messi got the ball back from a short corner, drew all the focus. Everybody collapsed on him. Fedenzo Fernández in acres...He unloaded beautifully…This Argentinian team, it is alchemy. They will not die.” (A, 36:51–37:07)
• Argentina dominate possession: “12% for England, 88% for Argentina” post England’s lead. (A, 38:21)
• Critique of Tuchel’s approach: Overly defensive, ceding initiative, “climb into the coffin and hope they forget to throw the dirt on top.” (C, 43:10)
• Hosts debate whether the comeback is “magic” or England’s own self-inflicted wound.
  • “It is magic. I’m only being churlish because I’m annoyed.” (C, 46:55)
  • “There’s a self-inflicted nature to this which is agonizing for you.” (A, 47:41)

Notable Quotes

• “If there’s a rationale, it makes no sense. It is defying logic.” (A, 48:53)
• “This is possibly the most England thing that ever England did.” (A, 50:21)

7. Decisive Moment: Lautaro Martínez’s Winner

• 92': Messi’s cross finds Lautaro Martínez, who scores: “Another comeback, it was almost like witnessing a biblical miracle…This was not football that we were watching. We were watching something ecstatic, something euphoric, something evangelical.” (A, 45:03–46:01)
• The hosts paint the moment as “magic”—beyond tactical analysis.

8. Aftermath: Narrative, Identity, and Looking Ahead

• England’s defeat fits into the trope of “noble failure”—joining 1990, 2018, and now 2026. (A, 48:53–50:32)
• Tuchel comes under immediate criticism from English media: "lost his bottle," “cowardice ended England’s World Cup dream” (Independence, Rooney, 53:11).
• Hosts express empathy for Tuchel and players, but note “choices that were made meant it just gave England the least possible chance of progressing from about the 55th minute.” (C, 52:45)
• For Argentina, Andres Cantor celebrates “a group of footballers who reach Olympus…what this team has in abundance is heart.” (A, 54:06)
• Hosts preview final vs. Spain—Spain as “process,” Argentina as “moments”—and marvel at the mythic resonance of Messi and Lamine Yamal facing off, referencing a famous photo of them from years before.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “This is a clash of football...but it was also about war and nationalism, politics, empire, colonialism, the death of empire, collective memory.” (A, 00:31)
• “Football’s how [Argentina’s] foreign policy’s played out.” (A, 03:32)
• “This is prison rules, shivs out of anal cavities type of football.” (A, 11:59)
• “There's a whole philosophy within Argentina of dark arts.” (A, 16:42)
• “The game is about working the handle for the shooter…Argentina had done that four times to free Enzo on the edge of the box.” (B, 37:07)
• “England’s foreign policy has become football, in a post Brexit world in which the nation is a real dented sense of self.” (A, 06:00)
• “It's a final of finals. It's a team that is perfectly rational, perfectly organized...against a team that make no sense at all...they will want it more, suffer more, fight more for Lionel, for Diego, for this legacy to be demigods.” (A, 61:16)
• “When you see Lionel Messi, tenacity, man. Just resilience. I see determination. I see a love and a passion for the game, man.” (D/Ludacris, 64:04)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|-------------| | Epic framing & historical context | 00:00–06:30 | | Pre-match/National identity & rivalry | 03:00–09:30 | | Atmosphere & first half analysis | 10:06–20:18 | | “Dark arts,” Argentine tactics | 12:13–16:45 | | Referee discussion | 17:19–20:18 | | Second half, England’s goal (Gordon, 53') | 24:52–26:12 | | Argentine siege, England’s retreat | 28:20–34:56 | | Enzo Fernández equalizer (85’) | 36:51–38:21 | | Lautaro Martínez winner (92’) | 45:03–46:10 | | England’s “noble failure” narrative | 48:53–52:45 | | Tuchel critique & media reaction | 53:11–54:06 | | Final preview & legacy discussion | 55:00–61:34 | | Ludacris on Messi (closing) | 64:04–64:42 |

---

Final Preview & Podcast Tone

The hosts blend irreverence, melancholy, and awe—lamenting England’s fate while celebrating the uniquely gripping drama produced by Argentina and Messi. Their analysis is both deeply emotional and laced with British self-deprecation, dark humor, banter, and grand narrative flourishes.

---

Summary Table: Match Flow

| Minute | Event/Note | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00–45 | First half dominated by fouls, almost no shots, “prison rules” | | 53 | Anthony Gordon puts England ahead after a swift counterattack | | ~58–85 | Argentina mount relentless pressure; England retreat deeper | | 85 | Enzo Fernández equalizes with a sublime long-range strike | | 92 | Messi cross finds Lautaro Martínez for miraculous winner | | FT | Argentina advance, England devastated; narrative turns to legacy, myth|

---

Usefulness for Non-Listeners

This summary provides:

• The historical and emotional context surrounding the match.
• A clear breakdown of match events, tactics, and turning points.
• Key thematic discussions (national identity, pain, and football magic).
• Time-stamped highlight quotes for orientation.
• The tone and unique conversational spirit of the Men In Blazers’ style.
• Preview and framing for the upcoming Spain-Argentina final.

---

For further questions, predictions, or context: Email [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network Suboptimal Radio. Day 35 of the Cooper Das Koopas. Oh, an Englishman. Bit sad. A Scotsman. Absolutely ecstatic. But we have just witnessed an epic game at biblical levels. We are live from Atlanta. Just seen a game. I don't like to be hyperbolic, between Argentina and England. The ballads will be written about that. Tapestries will be woven. This is a clash of football. Yeah, but it was also about war and nationalism, politics, empire, colonialism, the death of empire, collective memory. And at the end of the day, Argentina. Another epic comeback from a team. There's no team in sports who portrayed the fours up and then act upon it. They will face Spain in Sunday's final, knowing that every bloody time they find a way. It's an honor to break it down with you, but with my World cup wife fresh back from the game, Rory Smith.

[B]

How you doing?

[A]

You try not to smile.

[B]

I'm. I'm a professional, Rog.

[C]

Very.

[B]

I'm very. There's a lot of emotions, mainly tiredness from sprinting out of the stadium.

[A]

Yeah, man. Ludacris was right. That's all I'll tell you. We got Wrexham, Yao Ming, Mr. Humphrey. Car. The only English fan amongst us. How are you feeling?

[C]

I. I feel like I've been relegated to the back seat of the car with our setup today. Yeah. We're not in the bus.

[B]

You're the tool tit at the back of the bus. You should be smoking a cigarette.

[A]

This is like. Can I just say, the Driving Miss Daisy reaction pouring in from across the country on chat. Nyc. Finn says, truly gutted for England. But Messi going out to an Anthony Gordon goal would have been like watching nobility fail to a faceless longbowman. Anthony would have made an incredible pick back in the day. No. Woodbridge, va. Says France vs England in the third place game. The original Army Navy game.

[B]

Absolutely right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Ultimately, England controlled the seas.

[A]

You got that to look forward to. Hump, smile. Big third place game.

[B]

Don't mock him.

[C]

Come on.

[A]

Wait at the chop.662 says think Messi will cradle you? Mean after he beats him on the pitch?

[B]

Could we. Could we coin giving someone a bath as a way to describe defeating them? If Messi gives lamina bath, or is it too intimate?

[A]

There will be hundreds of memes being coined at the moment with Messi just having, like, little baby Harry Kane in that bath. Probably actually a real one. But we will get to all of that squirreling. Harland is with us. Let's get right into it. This game. England 1, Argentina 2. We always say that the joy of the World cup is that when these two teams take the field, the nation's histories, politics, cultures, all of it take the field alongside them. In this game, there's almost too much history. Humph. This is the most heated of rivalries and not in the kind of slightly erotic hbo, let's all get along and. And face up to our irresistible love kind of way. This is bad blood, this is vibes, this is spite. This is history. You know, the past, the humanity, the essence of who we are. There was this scene last night in Buenos Aires. Let's take a quick look.

[B]

See, I would argue that this is the wrong flag.

[A]

Well, a bit of Scotland in there, too. Now. It's too late for you to get angry, baby.

[B]

What about the population of Puerto Madryn in Argentina, where there's a large Welsh community?

[A]

Oh, you're intellectualizing. They. We got your point. I mean, sports is not war, but for Argentina, this game, it kind of is. Football's how their foreign policies played out.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I mean, look, I think. I think, you know, when. When you think of Argentina on the world stage, it is synonymous with football. Like, I think there's. I think of beef, I think of. I think of gauchos, you know, But I think ultimately you think about Argentina as a footballing powerhouse. And so for them, I think these games are. Look, it's incredibly important to England as well. But there is, as you've used the phrase many times about Argentina, there's a magic to it, and I think some of that is driven by. It is just the national cultural identity is wrapped up in football.

[B]

It's how they speak to the world more than anything. If you think about Britain, and I don't want to kind of begin to.

[A]

I'm going to ask you about England in one moment, but you kind of

[B]

have music and film and famous television characters. Argentina to a lot of the planet is it speaks to the world through football. That's its main thing. I mean, big national team. Yeah, it's the national team. It's Messi, it's Maradona. That is Argentina in our imagination, how they assert themselves.

[A]

It's how they express greatness. You know, the Argentinians see English people in their words. We talked about this in depth on yesterday's Night cup and you can find it on our YouTube as usurping pirates, the Malvinas hangs heavily over this game. The Falkland Islands, a raw, raw wound that is being fought out every time and it's very, very rare that England play Argentina. Football. England had their own emotions. This was the scene tonight on Governor's House on the Falkland Islands. Not subtle. Don't know how the Falkland and taxpayers feel about their money at work.

[B]

I think that. I think that's me.

[C]

Is that you?

[B]

Yeah. So presume that we. That they're all the same taxpayers. I don't know.

[A]

And they. I got to say, I don't mind that you don't.

[B]

No. They've been quite active in martial.

[A]

They did the Falklands official account. Did tweet out at one point in the game. Believe things went slightly bums up after that. But for the English nation, raw, this game was far more about footballing wounds. 1986 haunting memory of Diego Maradona. 1998 red card shame for David Beckham. 2002 redemption of David Beckham. England won Argentina nil. Young Mauricio Pochettino giving away the penalty. But raw, the heaviness of Diego Maradona fused with the fact that England have 60 years of hurt since they won the World cup in 1966. And since then it's been decades of agony, of self sabotage, of semi final implosions in 1990 and agony against Germany, 2018, a loss from a leading position in Croatia. You know, in a way, England's foreign policy has become football in a post Brexit world in which the nation is a real dented sense of self. England really needed this for different reasons.

[B]

Oh, there's no question, look, football is England's great soft power. The Premier League is England's greatest export. Now that we don't like Prince Andrew and the royal families a little bit, it's the BBC and it's the Premier League. And so football does play that role for English people as well. And I think, I think we shouldn't underestimate how in love with this World Cup England had been as a country. The mania that my friends at home, my colleagues at home, my family are telling me about is they had gone full on kind of World cup frenzy. But also the last few years for England and Humphrey will probably hope this will have meant more to him than it has to me, have been about slaying ghosts. You know, beating Germany at the Euros was massive. Getting to the semifinals, beating Columbia on penalties in 2018, getting to the semi finals, feeling as though you at last, England was kind of capable of competing at the top end of tournaments. And, you know, it has been a golden age of English football by the standards of the England national team. This has been an amazing 10 years. Argentina were the final boss and I think that's what, that's what this game represented. There is all that history, there is Maradona, the Hand of God, there's Beckham, Simeone, all that stuff. But I think what this game meant in England more than anything was if England can get over Argentina, then that is, there is nothing left to fear.

[C]

Yeah, I think, I think that's very, very true. It's probably, you know, for friends who are new to the world of football perhaps, and discovering England via the Premier League and the players that play there and have seen England in recent tournaments, get to kind of the semi final stage, get to final stages, never quite get over the line. Might think that is the norm. But for me, growing up, you know, England had this enormous inferiority complex perhaps on, on the world footballing stage. We were terrified of Germany, we were terrified of. Of Spain, France, Argentina, whoever, whoever may be Italy as well. Always, always a kind of problem team. And you know, there, there have been these kind of golden generations of England footballers who've singularly failed or between them and the manager and whatever it may be to live up to the hype. And I think that this team has done, albeit if we're going to discuss in this game again in, in further depth, maybe did not live up to it today.

[A]

And we also ultimately terrified of the tabloid buzzsaw, which in its own utterly scuppered team after team, tournament after tournament. The effect of all of this is that today we had a World cup semi final in which we effectively got to watch the world's only transcontinental derby. That's what it felt like. Just enormous numbers of Argentinians have poured into this city over the past two days. It has been remarkable to live, remarkable to breathe, remarkable to experience the downtown where we are. You can hear them now right outside of our hotel. They felt like they were. They follow V8, they follow Buenos Aires.

[B]

Yeah, we saw that clip yesterday, didn't we, of the fans in underground Atlanta, I think it's called, compared to what will happen tonight now that they've won, that is. That will be very tight. I mean, there are. There are 50,000 Argentinians in that stadium and there's probably as many in the fan park and they are going to have a party.

[A]

You can beat our national team, but you can never take our squirrel.

[B]

We need to put it there. So it looks like it's covering Humphrey some private parts.

[A]

Well, it kind of looks like it's emerging.

[C]

I do put A cowboy hat on

[A]

my private parts quite often in a slightly erotic way. If you are a. If you're a squirrel fetishist, this is probably almost impossible to watch and concentrate on.

[B]

Slightly larger.

[A]

Thank you. Just off the hat. The. There you are now. It's amazing.

[C]

Unfortunately, I can't really see it from where I am squirreling. Harland is blocking my idea.

[A]

I don't know what to do with that. I mean, you were in the stadium. It was amazing to watch. They booed the English national anthem so you could not hear the thing. They won the anthems by a million. What was the atmosphere like in the Mercedes Benz? What did it sound like? What did you feel?

[B]

It felt very noisy. The noise in that stadium kind of swirls around. It doesn't feel like an English game where you've got it coming from one end and it's a battle of sounds. It kind of feels more like a cauldron. And it built and built and built. At the start it was extremely noisy. After the anthems and the Argentines getting their first songs out. I thought England's fans were incredible as well, the. The amount of noise they made. But to be perfectly honest with you, rog, after about 10 minutes it got quite quiet because everyone got very nervous.

[C]

Nervous, yeah.

[A]

Footballingly. We finally. 87 minutes into the game, Bill, like the game itself, we get to the football. Thomas Tuchel was not going to die wondering. Not sentimental. Three changes to the team that had outlasted Norway almost. Bellingham. Bellingham their way past Norway. Both fullbacks change. Rhys James and Jed Spencer in for Conso and Nico Morgan Rogers replacing the quite now damaged goods from an England perspective. Noni Madwake. You know, we knew that the football was going to be mysterious. Both nations have been incoherent, they've been vulnerable, they've been sluggish at times broken. And there was no pretense to tactical control by most of them throughout the tournament. But man, they. We knew they were both teams in moments. That's what we knew. Going incapable of magic, messy magic. Bellingham, magic vibes. And that's what made this game so fascinating. As a prospect from the off, England attempted to press Argentina tried to challenge their confidence physically. Enzo Fernandez took out Ellie Anderson inside two minutes with a. Almost a freebie reducer that you know you're going to get away with in a game like this. Set a tone now. Six combined fouls inside the first 10 minutes hang a record. Elbows were finding ribs, feet were being left in. Zero shots on goal before the water Break. This was, this was prison rules, shivs out of anal cavities type of football.

[B]

It was very clearly, and I say this with no judgment at all, very clearly, Argentina's approach to try and drag England into a scrappy, bad tempered, kind of disjointed sort of game. That's what Argentina wanted. We said before yesterday, we said on stage today, they're not quick, Argentina can't counter punch you. They have no pace, so they needed it to be tight and compact and snarly. And they spent the first 15 minutes establishing those rules of engagement.

[A]

I mean, it was blood and thunder to watch. I don't know what it was like for you. It's the first World cup game to not have a shot of any kind in the first 30 minutes. Part of me was like, God, if there's no shots by halftime, FIFA should just article 27 Cape Verde straight into the final, by the way. Probably I'd be all right with that. But was all the fouling essentially tacit admission by Argentina that they were not capable of going 2 to 2 in a footballing way? And this is what they got. They just had to drag them into a world of hurt, a world of pain, a world of, of mental abrasion.

[C]

Well, it felt like, you know, as Roy says, they, they have, you know, Scaloni is a very good manager. He had identified what England's strengths were, knows very well what Argentina strengths were and worked to negates England's strengths and pushed Argentina strengths to the fore. And yeah, I mean, that, that initial period, certainly, I think, you know, it's such a, I think England as a footballing entity for years, again, that mentality has been an issue for them and sometimes that's, there's too much passion spelled P a s H u N where. And we talked about actually, you know, performative Englanding from Bellingham earlier in the tournament. You know, this, this idea that so often, you know, England that have loved over the years, players like David Batty, who, who sort of crunched everyone he went near in the 1998 World cup, then missed a penalty that was like the epitome of an Eng. Miss, a penalty to get knocked out of the World cup, but spend the rest of your time there absolutely crunching nice, technically gifted European players. And, and so I think, you know, there's an understandable move on Argentine's parts. Can. Can they rattle England? Do you know Bellingham, has he got a bit of a temper? Does he have a temperament issue? I don't think he does, but I Think that. That when. When you see the way he plays, certainly in the press and things that there's. There's often. You know, I'm sure everyone's seen that extraordinary quote from the Daily Mail where they suggested leaving Jude Bellingham at home before the tournament because of his mentality issues. But I think you can see. Yes. And you could see that, yeah, Argentina quite rightly were like, you know, we talked about the dark arts and that they see that as a legitimately important part of playing football. And it was on full display in those. In those first 20 odd minutes.

[B]

But what I thought was really key was that if initially I kind of thought they looked too worked up, we talked a lot about kind of how much this means to them for various, you know, for sporting and political reasons. And the risk was always that they let the emotion overwhelm them. It was really calculated. They knew what they were doing. I don't have a problem with that. I know a lot of. We talked to a lot of Americans who really don't like the flopping, but I don't mind. That is part of the game. You have to kind of establish yourself physically. It felt after a while, it was a bit like, okay, you can see that this is a strategy. They will break up the play. They won't let England use their pace. They won't kind of allow the rhythm to build. They are doing this on purpose to. To make sure that England, as Humphrey says, can't assert themselves. And the key thing, the moment you. You kind of knew they'd won that battle, they'd established that this was the game they wanted was Elliot Anderson's foul on Messi, which was the most kind of blatant. I'm just going to go through.

[C]

You tackle.

[B]

You don't really see them anymore. You see them all the time.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. The.

[A]

I mean, essentially they set the battlefield is what they did. England got dragged into it. I did love Jude Bellingham because, you know, he was rattled by it, but he's, like, trained himself to laugh in the face of the player who tries to shithouse him. It's just an incredible, like a practice form of footballing aikido. I love this tweet. It's amazing. It kind of captured the first half. Quite funny how the Argentina team is basically a who's who are Premier League hate figures. And then just to really run the point home, there's Diego Simeone's actual son.

[B]

Yeah, but that was it. Gutier Romero, Enzo Fernandez, you know, they are. They've got that side Argentine players do have it. They learn it. It's what. It's what makes Argentine football so special. If we had more time, Rog, I would build a long and detailed theory about why it's. Why. Why it explains Argentina's current success and not Brazil's. It's that. That little vein of spite, villainous.

[A]

There's a whole philosophy within Argentina of dark arts.

[B]

Sprinter. Yeah, and Picardilla is the other one. The word that they use. The ability, the desire that you get from playing on the. On the patch of wasteland to win at all costs.

[A]

Those are the two values that drove this win. That's what we saw. That's what they lived. That's what propelled ultimately this incredible turnaround again. But it is in Argentina, the fans. It's part of the joy of watching when Enzo Martinez, when. When Martinez at the end fell over backwards, the goalkeeper and grabbed his bum. I mean, it was just amazing. Just.

[B]

That was a sincere injury, what you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah, I was just. And then even he laughed. It was just genuinely. I got the photo, I got the meme. I'm showing England the derision of my buttock. I mean, it's just peak joy through neutralizing, emasculating, utterly throwing the opponent off the game. I'm not a referee talker about it. I mean, all referees are human. All referees are flawed. Not an interesting talking point. I do want to talk about this gent for one minute because it was a very curious. First off, he let everything go. I mean, everything. First 15 fouls are all freebies. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I mean, I'm not that person, but I was like, oh, my God. US based referee is my elfath. MLS ref let Elliot Anderson be fouled every six touches in the opening 30 minutes, which is just incredible. Many of these files were not given. Jude Bellingham was kicked at will again. Lots of fouls that took was losing his mind. There were a lot of people who couldn't believe that an MLS ref was given this game when the league's Pearl Messi was playing. Conspiracy theorists get stuck in there and you write them. Messi burst through. Kane tried to foul him, was left in a pile of like old man sketches. Then just alchemic, messy injury. I think Jed Spence also bounced off him. Elliot Anderson took him out and behold, finally a yellow card. I wrote in my game notes, raw ref, never going to beat the allegations.

[B]

No, I think what if you were to play? So a lot of the journalists who were sat around me were enervated by the referee's performance. I wasn't in the right frame of mind to think about things in that detail. I think Argentina, to an extent, were quite smart in terms of. They rotated who was doing the fouling, so everyone got their first one free.

[A]

Like Hacker Shack in the old. In the old Shaquille o' Neill balls

[B]

days, and that's a thing that happens a lot, is that teams will. Even Wrexham, I'm sure, will consider it. I think it's probably got one of

[C]

the best disciplinary records.

[A]

The Corinthian spirit lives on at Kyras.

[B]

Phil Parkinson is especially good at making sure people only get one foul each. Yeah, no, they will. Teams will be like, okay, look, you know, the players know when they might be on a bit of a warning, and they just make sure they're not the one that does it. But, yeah, Anderson, I mean, I think you'd struggle to argue that that was definitely a yellow card. I think the bigger issue is consistency with.

[C]

Yes, I think, listen, I think Anderson was definitely, definitely worthy of a card. I suppose the question is, I don't. I don't think the referee had a massive impact on this game because ultimately, this period of play, exciting as it. As it was, and. And as much as it set up the rest of the game, ultimately it was. It was neither won nor lost in this period. And I think by the time we got into the second half, the referee was refereeing the game in a way that, you know, you could argue is more consistent or is just, you know, that he had built to. So I. I don't think. I think anyone of an England persuasion in that first half early on was a bit like, blimey, he's giving. You know, there's an obvious. It's obvious what's going on here, and is he out of his depth? The other. However, I don't think it had a big impact on the game.

[A]

And he was definitely refereeing the occasion, not the actual game. And when it did, it did allow the game, furthermore, to be played in the Argentinian terrain. Like, I'm gonna let this go. I don't want to be giving out. It was like a derby, you know, Jamie Carragher always knew when he played Everton that you could do a horrific foul in the first 60 seconds because ref was never going to pull a card out, because then what would he be doing pulling cards out the whole time? And suddenly he becomes the focus of the game, let everything go. And it becomes ultimately exactly. Reinforcing that physical advantage. The aggro the unbottled physicality and pure emotion which was that first half. I mean these stats are brutal. First half combined first half shots, fewest in the game at the tournament. Combined XG 0.08. This isn't a World cup semi final. Fewest in a game at this World Cup. This was, this was like that. The old he takes out a knife, you take out a gun, he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his. That's the Chicago way. That's what we were watching in a football game. Paridis got away with about five reckless tackles, completely uncooled. And just before halftime there was a shot of a quite frantic Thomas Tuchel. We laughed at it together. He was writing madly.

[B]

Dear referees, officials, I'm very unhappy with your performance today.

[A]

Signed a the Amira tt. I mean this was exactly the kind of reality, this kind of moment, this kind of halftime team tour, this kind of plan. That's what we thought. This kind of game, this kind of occasion that he was hired for.

[C]

Yeah, and you know, this is sort of cometh the hour, cometh the man hopefully was the idea. And yes, I mean again, I suppose for people that are not as familiar with how England have, have gone about their business for years, I think as much as anything the feeling has been that England, you know, tend to, tend to not produce their best performances in the, in the biggest moments. And the idea was to bring Tuchel in, who was someone who had this kind of aura for knockout football and for producing great performances just when it mattered. And again, and the hope was that he would go in at halftime and make some changes, give him some instructions that we're going to bring them out a very different prospect in the second half.

[B]

And he has tootle, to be fair, has throughout this tournament with the slight exception of the sub of the halftime subsidence, Norway, which I thought was a bit weird, he's been probably the best manager at using the hydration breaks and half time to, to kind of switch around how his team's playing.

[A]

All that is context for everything that was to come. He was in your term. He was meant to be the ghost slayer for this team. And as the world arrives in the United States for the biggest spectacle in sports, we're going coast to coast, host city to host city to meet the world with the men in blazers. Match day live tour. These are free college game day style live events taking place just before kickoff at some of the biggest games of the summer. But we'll be taking the stage with celebrity guests in front of thousands of fans. It's going to be amazing. Come and be with us in person or From Afar on YouTube. Let's celebrate this some other way. It's meant to be celebrated. Let's head to the events tab on meninblazers.com for all the details. To the football to more together courage. But what did we see? I think everything that follows was best captured by something Miguel Delaney wrote this morning when he said all logic also indicates that this is going to become a match where logic ceases to apply, where mayhem again engulfs the teams. And that felt like the totem. In the first couple of minutes of the first half, Argentina started to press higher. A little more ambition. What I couldn't tell. Alvarez Ping two shots at Pickford. I think he decided to feel emboldened. And I wonder whether it was their plan or whether England were letting them on to them. Because suddenly Argentina were caught with a hands down in transition for the first time or game and team of moments. This was England's moment. And it was Rice starting. The move fed Morgan Rogers. What a selection. It felt like in the moment he just arced a serious poem of a cross into the box. And who was there? Anthony Gordon never called you a ginger bastard. He anticipated it. He sped the blind side of Molina. I think he made a very difficult finish look incredibly effortless. And he learned it on Duolingo. Stunning moment. Football in a bruising, bruising, eyesore. I mean, such a remarkable finish. Even Victoria Beckham got paid attention.

[D]

Yeah, it was.

[B]

It was. It's one of those goals from where I was in the stadium that you could see coming because I think is it Talia Feto does the kind of overhead that doesn't clear the lines that needs to go further and then suddenly everything breaks. So the Rodgers is really smart to hold his run to make sure he's not offside. The cross is beautiful. And you could what? You could see Jordan thinking, Molina can't see me. He's not checked his shoulder and the little darting run to get ahead of him. And it is a really controlled finish. It's a really hard finish. Charlie Kipp actually scored a goal like that when we played the other day. It was a really delicate touch.

[A]

It's kind of finished. That you can do, dear viewer, but completely by accident.

[B]

Yeah, well, that's harsh on Charlie. But it was the fact you could see it coming. It was almost. You watched it almost in slow motion because you understood exactly the angles of what was about to happen. A brilliant finish. And you what? That stood out to me as was for the first time, as you say, Argentina had been caught and England had punished them.

[A]

That.

[B]

That's the moment they'd been waiting for.

[C]

Yeah, it was. It was, you know, a goal that again, at times, to use sort of historical context, I think it felt. It felt quite un England, like, in some way, in these sorts of scenarios. And, yeah, it came at a time when, as you say, Argentina had perhaps started to sort of step up, be in the ascendancy for a little bit of time. And so, yes, very welcome at that moment, for those of us in English persuasion.

[B]

Did you celebrate?

[C]

I did a little.

[B]

A little one of these. Retaining a bit of dignity.

[A]

You didn't get out.

[C]

I didn't get out of my seat. I did a little.

[A]

You did just do a little. A little. Yeah, little one of those. Because you knew.

[C]

Because I know what comes.

[A]

You kind of know.

[B]

By the way, you've got this guy.

[A]

I used to work at a homeless shelter, my first job in the United States, and the homeless guys used to love to watch Die Hard. Over and over. Every night they'd watch Die Hard, but they'd only watch the moments until when the building had been taken over and then they stopped. They liked the building being taken over. They didn't want justice, they wanted Hans Gruber. They wanted chaos. They wanted. That was the end of the movie. Like, great. The, you know, the state has been defeated. And I loved it. I thought it was so brilliant. If you are England curious. And a lot of Americans are. I mean, when I was at the England conga games, so many Americans were wearing England jerseys. It's that Premier League kind of affection, that emotional bond. You should stop watching in this moment, Hans Gruber has taken over the building. This is your moment. Because in that, we're like, wow, England winning in a World cup semi final. We kind of have a. There's a national groove, there's a, you know, England, England in those moments. But this is the England of Harry Kane. This is the England of Jude Bellingham. This is the England of. Of defiance. In their own right. They're writing their own narrative. And Argentina looks stung in the moment. Messi's face, by the way, man, was giving out so many memes in this game, I've got to tell you, just world class. He looks stunned, but that's also, I think, the face that he pulls where he knows he's going to start probing the half spaces. Jude Bellingham tried to, man, mark him for a spell, shadow him everywhere. This was Main man on, main man fair. Two minutes later, Enzo was freed. Simeone bore down on goal with murderous intent. And it felt from an England perspective in the second, this was going to be their day because. Not so fast, my friend. Jed Spence. Jed Spence. That was amazing. Finally unplugged son. Abraham Lincoln chinstrap flashback. He hit him harder than Derwin James. It was unbelievable.

[B]

It was a remarkable bit of defending. And I think you saw in that moment why he had made that selection. Because as much as Spence's, you know, his, his final ball in attack is a little bit unreliable, his recovery speed is insane. And that was. That got England out. I mean, whether Simeone were destroyed, we don't know, but it kind of cut off an angle of attack for Argentina.

[C]

And you saw the sort of roar from him in the response from Pickford and fist pump. Yeah.

[A]

Was it another one? What did you do?

[C]

I did a little fist pump. I think I said, well done, Jed. Sort of tragic little voice from the back of the conference room when we watched the game, awfully well done. As you said, Rog, it felt, you know, in that moment, it was again that moment of like, oh, you know, there you go. It's, it's written in the stars. It's, you know, this is, this is the sort of moment that so often before, in these moments, England have been punished and suddenly the fans are deflated and suddenly the opposition team get, get all the momentum and the whole team retreats into its shell. And sorry if I got too far ahead in the game narrative.

[A]

God, Argentina, proud team, tenacious team, ferocious team. And they started to lock into fighting with a red hot heat. All of that focus that had been about ribs of opponents, eyes of opponents, little, you know, bum, bum, prods in that first half were just dedicated instead to attack, attack, attack. A messy corner, Gonzalez a downward header. Jordan Pickford moving backwards. Plunge spoon that ball off his line, shovel style. I was like, in my game notes, I wrote, oh, these are sad words. This is all Everton past, present and future. Raw. Anthony Gordon pass. Jordan Bickford, present. Jed Spence incoming future. I was like, I wrote my notes in my little handwriting. World cup of Hill Dickinson.

[B]

But you know what? In that, in those, I wasn't watching this through, through, completely neutralize. And I'm, I'm always wary of trusting my judgment in those moments you had

[A]

your shirt off, waving it over your head like this.

[B]

But I think after the goal you would see Argentina dorpier and Messi in particular. All of a sudden he was getting the ball in Those areas, he was causing problems. The, the passing handles changed. They suddenly, they locked onto that whipped ball from the right hand side, looking for that far post run. And there were. There was the Simeone chance and the Spence clearance. There was a couple of corners and then MacAllister hitting the post. I've never seen anything hit the post that hard. Certainly not a header. It was extraordinary. And you suddenly thought, hang on, Argentina are really starting to turn the screw here. And it did. From about the 58th, 59th minute, it started to feel like a siege. And that's fine against Mexico, who's only, with all due respect.

[A]

And Norway.

[B]

And Norway, when they've taken Haaland off, when you know the only threat is Jordan Strand Larsen or Roberto Alvaro. But you think, well, hang on, you've got the greatest player of all time there and you're letting him play on the edge of your box. This is not a particularly good idea.

[C]

Yeah. I'm saying in terms of it, feeling like a siege, part of the problem was that, you know, siege is often your. Historically, you're retreating into a position of defensive strength. You know, a big old castle or something like that. Maybe you've taken your neighbors hostage and had to retreat into their living room while you wait for the FBI. The, the problem was, for me is that maybe England probably had a better chance of escaping from the FBI and going on a, you know, road, a road trip across the country to New York to try and get to the final if they didn't lock themselves in the garage with no windows.

[A]

Say, Cash Patel, we're in here.

[C]

Yeah, See, have you got what it takes? Cash Patel. We. We shouted the crack at the bottom of the door. The door. I mean, I will say, okay, this is me. Roy just made a point of speaking. I'm not a neutral. My heart sank because, you know, England very quickly decided we are shutting up shop.

[A]

I thought you were going to give us a real potted history of siege warfare for a second. You went to a very.

[B]

I didn't, I didn't expect you to go full like Waco. I thought you might go more kind of.

[A]

Well, this thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What do they call these things that Siege guns and all that?

[B]

I thought you might say trebuchet.

[A]

Yeah. Trebuchet.

[C]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, but trebuchet.

[A]

Trebuchet. Sounds like someone asked.

[B]

But it was England who had the trebuchet. Yeah, they had a trebuchet in their back pocket, didn't they, by the way?

[C]

Well.

[A]

Or were they Just a serious question. Yeah. Cash Patel against Dan Byrne. Who you got doing what?

[C]

Dan Burn.

[B]

Running the FBI or winning a header?

[A]

Both.

[B]

Dan Byrne.

[C]

Byrne times two. I mean, unless it's like, which one would you like to go under your crawl space in your house to fetch out, get rid of some spiders or something? I just don't think Dan would fit down.

[A]

No, dad, look. It became desperate attack against frenzy defence. English Bash Brothers were inserted. The English Bash Brothers. It's one person, it's Dan Byrne. It's just Dan Byrne. That man is. Both Bash Brothers race off and burn on. It's like replacing a paintbrush with a potato gun.

[B]

They went from four at the back, which is how they started, to three at the back, and then to four central defenders. Full pew lists. You could see it was Aston for trouble. And they were brilliant when they did that against Mexico in particular, and Norway, to an extent, I think normally didn't ask them that many questions, to be honest, but against Argentina, it is, yeah.

[C]

So early Mexico was a force, you know, their hand was forced, you know, after Drillcons get sent off and all of a sudden you're like, right, well, you know, this is going to be. We're in for hell, so therefore let's send on our demons to, to try and survive in this, in this hot new environment. The problem with this was, for me, it was just, it smacked a classic English moment of. And I know Thomas Tuchel is a German man, but, but we, we were

[A]

meant to, we meant to get a little more German. Your theory is. Yes, he became very English in that moment.

[C]

He changed as English as he possibly could be, which was for us to allow that inferiority complex to rise back to the surface to go, you know, okay, we're. And look, of course the nature of football is we could be sitting here now being like, master stroke from Tuchel. Yeah, he took this thing out of the game. He brought these people on, he said, come on, Argentina, what have you got? And you know what? They didn't have enough.

[A]

But we wouldn't want to be like that. We wouldn't want to say master straight. I think ultimately it's the English way to be able to have someone to crap on. You feel better. That's what you want in life.

[C]

Of course, of course. But, yeah, it is. It's frustrating because I think this was, you know, look, setting aside, you've got to play Spain in the final. That's, that's a. You know, I, I wouldn't fancy England against Spain, but the reality is, is that this feels like such a great opportunity to get to only our second ever World Cup Final.

[A]

But we're still there in the moment. We're not caught there yet. Spoiler alert. You spoiler alert.

[C]

People are too far ahead.

[B]

Yeah. People are watching this without having seen the game.

[A]

I think most people don't watch the game. They just want to hear Raw. Go on. I just want to hear Humph. Go on about crawl spaces and Cash Patel being really big into taxidermy squirrels. But God bless if you're watching Cash. Welcome to football.

[B]

I don't think he is.

[A]

You don't. He's got. He's got. He's probably trying to stop the kidnapping. That humph is signaling to the world. He's done. You know, ultimately, we saw Enzo blast the ball from deep. Oh, it's my wife. Hello, babe. I'll call you in a minute. Oh, gosh. I just muted. It's not very nice, is it?

[B]

No. You know, you're worried. It's fine. She'd do the same to you.

[A]

You know what? She would. She would. She would. She would. Someone's just texted me. Kash Patel. I mean, a lot of Cash Patel related text now.

[C]

I don't know, perhaps he's tweeted this stream out, right?

[A]

That. That long. First long shot from Enzo. I was like, wow, England will love this. This is like, ultimately, you know, you always say that when they're just down to desperation long shots. But within seconds, the football was relentless. It was powered. You were watching football. It was like, powered by. This is so crazy for me to say. It's like powered by the knowledge that Diego Maradona was looking down upon them, that the Malvinas were not free in their minds, their hearts, that Lionel Messi was not ready to play his last game at a World Cup. Yet England were driven deeper and deeper and deeper. You kind of felt the heat of the Azteca in the legs. You felt the extra time against Norway in the mines. And then 85th minute, Messi got the ball back from a short corner, drew all the focus. Everybody collapsed on him. Fedenzo Fernandez in acres of space. And he just unloaded. He unloaded beautifully. His foot was kind of like, side on. It was an incredible technique. It brilliantly took the ball away from. From. From Jordan Pickford's despairing dive with the angle. And my God, in that moment, you realize, this Argentinian team, it is alchemy. They will not die.

[B]

I don't know basketball, Rog, but it is my understanding that a lot of the time, the game is about kind of working the handle for the shooter, the. In a different scenario to the one that might be turning up to buy. Argentina had done that four times. That had been even. I don't know anything about football. And that that had been their plan to free Enzo on the edge of the box. He'd done it in the first half and it went. It was the first shot of the game and it went just over in the far corner. There was the one that Pickford tipped over. That was too straight. There was another one I think was blocked. And that was the fourth. And England did not see it, that they were so deep. They'd become so, so kind of obsessed with defending their box, diving. But also Rod, in the Premier League, which is where most of those players play, no one shoots from distance anymore because they're all tapping it around the box to look for the angle. That's the kind of style of play that has become de rigueur in England. Argentina clearly said, we've got a fella here who can hit it from 25 yards, we're going to let him. You don't. You can't give a player of that quality. Enzo was brilliant today. I think he's a bit up and down for Chelsea, but he was brilliant today. Yeah, you can't give him that many, that many opportunities to get his sights in and from. But to be honest, from that, I think for most of the second half, Argentina were much, much better than England. They had been the superior team.

[A]

Possession between Anthony Gordon's open and Latero Martinez's winner, according to Wapta, 12% for England, 88% from Argentina.

[C]

But this is what was just, again, for someone of an England persuasion was just so frustrating because, you know, through the course of the tournament, you've had who have been the impact players for England, it's been Kane and Bellingham. Why you're asking them to then do a job that is completely far away from what has made them successful and. And what has given England a scrap of success at this World cup is it just. It sort of. It's disappointing.

[B]

But England spent so much time and so much money teaching, bringing, bringing through young players who don't have to hoof the ball clear because they're panicking and under pressure, who can play their way out of trouble. England are just as good at that as the French, the Germans, probably the Argentinians, to be honest. And they did none of it. The ball just kept going, being kicked way as far as they could go. And then either, you know, Otamendi by that stage or Tutti Romero or even Emmy Martinez would pick it up and do it like, we're gonna do this again.

[A]

The crazy thing was also, we're going to get to Thomas Tuchel. This. Had he not watched the Egypt game, had he not watched that movie? I mean, it's a movie. It's like the killer is inside the house. It's like you were screaming. You knew what was going on. And you knew from that moment the goal went in. Argentinian fans, you didn't need to see them, but you knew the shirts were off. You knew they were whipped around the head. The noise was.

[B]

This noise was in. Was insane. That when an Argentinian, When Argentina straw, that Argentinian end of the stadium melts. It looks like the ocean blue and white and it looks like waves bouncing up and down. It is absolute bedlam.

[A]

And you knew in that moment what I'd said about being in the Egypt game. When they went 2 1, they were 2 nil down. When they went 2 1, Argentina, I spoke to you afterwards, I said in that moment when they scored their first goal, the fans around me, the Argentina fans relaxed, which is crazy. They were still going out. They were 21 down, but they knew. They knew, just like, you know, a hunter knows that the prey was done, that they were now going to be out. So you felt the same again, that this was not going to extra time.

[B]

It was.

[A]

It was never a doubt. This is going to go to X time, by the way. If I went to X time, I'd miss my play. Selfish of the players not to finish in 19 minutes, but. So I was kind of hoping that. But the second Argentina scored 1:1, I knew this game was over. Tuchel had neutered his team with extreme defensive crouch. England had only a backward gear. But you knew, didn't you? You knew you were there. You knew it was only a matter of. It wasn't how this was going to end. It was just what was the goal going to look like? And it was going to be in the 90s.

[B]

And the other issue, I mean, I felt the same, Roger, there was a head injury. I don't know who it was to. That seemed to kind of draw the stain a little bit. And I wondered whether. I think it was a genuine injury, but I did wonder whether that might have come at a convenient time because it drew Argentina's momentum. But they just picked the ball up and they're like, right, okay, his head's fine. We're going to put you apart again. It was dominant possession. It was not sterile. At any point, they knew what they were doing.

[A]

But the other thing is like an alpha predator who knew that the little gazelle had been separated from the pack.

[B]

It's a bone constrictor. In fact it's Argentine. It's probably an anaconda. I'm terrified of anacondas. But the other thing is, even if it had gone to extra time, Tootle's side made no sense. So even though Stallone had, I think he'd made all of his changes, if they hadn't stored that equalizer, if we were all still there watching, Argentina would have had a 4, 3. 3. That would have made perfect sense. England were playing with four central defenders, one midfielder maybe and then like three and then one. But everyone was, was within the sort of width of their own box. It was a kind of full on back to the wall for a manager who was a brilliant tactician. Tootle did not seem to actually have a tactic for that.

[C]

Yeah, he sort of threw all his chips on the 0 if that makes sense.

[A]

Which is amazing. I mean if there's a. You can play. If Southgate had done that he would get complete that sentence.

[C]

Well, I mean listen, I dread to think what the English press will, will have to say for, for Thomas Tuchel tomorrow. And I, I'm again as someone who now is very fortunate to work in football, I'm. I'm much more understanding and forgiving of the people that work in it and, and non Germans. I can't even imagine what the pressure feels like. But, but again I just. You think back to that famous quote from Tuchel after the Croatia game where he said, you know, hey, we might lose but let's lose our way. Let's, let's be brave, let's be bold, let's be all these things which live or die. But yeah, and this was a, this was a case of like tonight climb into the coffin and hope that they forget to throw the dirt on top.

[A]

That's another trick.

[B]

I can't, I can't improve on that.

[A]

God. What. This man is slightly espionage. There's a little bit of MI5 training in this man.

[C]

They asked me to join MI5.

[A]

Did they really?

[C]

Thanks. Yeah.

[A]

Who's, who's they? John Le Carre himself about that's all.

[C]

I can't tell you that.

[A]

Did you get approached by yes or no? Just blink. Was it John Le Carre himself who approached it? No. Disappointed.

[C]

I've met his son by the way.

[A]

Nice, nice. We'll talk about that on the other show. Great, great author son today just scared of anacondas. When I was.

[B]

You should be shadows. They're massive.

[A]

When I was six, I watched a documentary by mistake about sea snakes and I spent the next 10 years, every time I went for number two, thinking in Liverpool one was going to come up the system.

[B]

I went to see the original film. Anaconda.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Friend of mine. I was about 13, 14.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I felt that confronting my fear might solve it. That doesn't work.

[A]

No.

[C]

Is that the one with ice cube in it?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Children, do not confront your fears, just be crippled by them. It's the English way.

[C]

Have yourself an ultra.

[A]

There you go. It wasn't even on screen because we're shoved into this hotel conference where I was doing a lot of work with sponsors and it was just off there. Look at that. It's like that but you didn't even know it.

[B]

19. I made just one. One quick thing. I want you to let you fly.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

It's not carry about stuff.

[A]

Squirrels.

[B]

I've been thinking a lot about Tootle. I really like Tuttle as a manager. I was at the Champions League final where his Chelsea team beat Man City and I thought it was an absolute masterclass. He is changing everything with Pulisic. He is brilliant. But his substitutions against Norway at halftime were deeply strange and I do wonder whether he has. And this is a transitive verb. I wonder whether he's Guardiola'd it a bit. He's kind of overthought things. Tried to be too clever because the substitution, it was fine. But one, it's not Mezzito. They've got more than just lobbing the ball at you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And two, it was so early. It was saying we are not going to attack you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And from that point on, McAllister wrapped a second shot off the post. I mean, this was building, building, building. Messi again. 92nd minute. My God. Just goat doing goat. Things do not go gentle into that good night. Lionel did not want to go beat O'Reilly floated what can only be described as a stunning invitation of a cross to the far post. Pickford was stranded and Latero Martinez somehow got between John Stones. And was it Rhys James and is 5 foot 9 but he plays like a big 5 foot 11, man. It was all. At this moment. I don't like to be hyperbolic. Another comeback. It was almost like witnessing a biblical miracle. That's all I got for you. This was not football that we were watching. We were watching something ecstatic, something euphoric, something evangelical to me, like this last 50 minutes of this game, if I saw the Red Sea part, I'd be like, yeah, that's good. But this, the Argentinian comeback from the dead for Lionel, for Diego, for the Malvina, it was, it was that level of miracle I felt like we were watching.

[B]

It is, it sounds like a really pat, trite line. It is genuinely, it is a type of magic. I thought, I thought that in Qatar and I think that now it is a type. What you are watching is a type of magic.

[C]

No, no, hard disagree.

[B]

Really interesting. What do you think it is?

[C]

I think.

[A]

Have you ever suit, have you ever saw a woman in half on stage?

[B]

No, not on stage.

[C]

Not on stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did once on a cross channel fairy. We had a disagreement about whether I had to put my car up, stay in gear or just put the handbrake on when you're on the ferry. And well, one thing led to another, unfortunately. No, look, it is magic. I'm only being churlish because I'm annoyed. Yeah, because of what?

[B]

No, but I think it should make you feel better.

[C]

Yeah, no, no, I know you're right, but it's hard. And again, this is, perhaps this might be English arrogance to make it more about us than it is about. About an extraordinary performance from Argentina, which it was, it was brilliant. But again you said earlier that this is like Argentina's like the final boss. And again my analogy for what what happened in this game was, it was a bit like a final boss in a video game where you're in an environment and you look around like, oh, there's, there's a pit here with a load of spikes in it. Maybe if I jump in there, it's like a trick and I go in the spike pit and then, and then we jumped in a pit of spikes and died.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So although it was magical, although it was brilliant again and just being grumpy, livid that a series of 5 foot 4 men kept winning headers. There's a self 5 yards out from these.

[A]

There's a self inflicted nature to this which is agonizing for you. Yes, it fits into the troop of other self inflicted. Now you're saying we had agency in this. You're saying no magic, England had active agency in this. That's what you're feeling?

[C]

Yes, I suppose it is. Like, I think, I think narratively, of course, it's always exciting to go, God, this, this Argentina team, irresistible, brilliant. The magic of Messi. He's the greatest of all time. He is the grace of all time. And he again, he put in an extraordinary performance in this game that helped them, help them to win it. But again it's just, it's hard to get past my, my, my, my sour grapes and go those we, we gave them every platform to do what they did.

[B]

Because I like agreeing with Humphrey, I do think you could, you could actually construct a totally kind of non magical account of that second half which was that from the goal that sort of spurred Argentina into action, which happens in football from the 53rd minute was the goal, I think to the 90 or 110th minute, something like that. No, 103rd minute. Argentina were much the better team and Thomas Tootle singularly failed to find an answer to that.

[C]

Yeah, I think it was indeed everything he did only made them better.

[A]

Yes, that's great. Next you're going to try and rationalize out how they did, how he did the lows into fishes thing. You know, there is a rationale. Look, this is, this is, there is something about this. It makes no sense. It is defying logic. And England were left shattered. You know, put me thinks they're going to make Thomas Tuchel walk home. This final will now fit into almost a comforting trope of noble failure. Final curiosity, I think you could call it 1990, which was an agony. That failure so close you didn't think you'd get there again. 2018, the Croatia failure. Now you know, 2026 failure nestles in that, in that collection. All noble failures, but all deeply, deeply, deeply traumatic ones. I mean John Oliver came on, we're filming with him tomorrow and I can't wait to hear what he says. He compared England in World Cups to Charlie running a football with Lucy holding. He decided, we decided maybe Lucy. Maybe Charlie's the one that makes Lucy pull the ball back. He likes the warm feeling of, of failure. Thus it was, thus it will always be. I mean, nail it for us. Thomas Tuchel just said today we played one of our best games, maybe our best game. We have no regrets. That's not really the way Thomas. It's easy to say my decisions were wrong after the defeat. That's your point. How do you think about this? Because I mean there's an agony but it does fit that. That trope of like this is what England do. This is possibly the most England thing that ever England did.

[B]

Yeah, it does. It fits in with a long litany as Humphrey will know of kind of narrow late stage disappointments, I suppose. I think that I'm the same as Humphrey as I don't particularly like criticizing managers And I. Because I think that you too often kind of get close to using the word should. And I don't know what anyone should have done. So I'm not qualified to say that in the same ways. I wouldn't like it if Thomas, too, criticized my podcasting.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

But I do think, like, logically, just as a fan, I would be interested to know, a fan of football, I should say, just hoping the game grows. I would be interested to know what his thinking was about making those changes so early against the team that were not just going against Mexico. It made sense. It was obvious that their plan was, we're going to get Roberto Alvarado to cross the ball in and hope that one of the three massive strikers we've got can head it. So it made sense to go kind of four defenders, width of the box, Big Dan, burn, all that stuff. I don't think it made sense today. I think they surrendered it really, really early. And he will get pelters, not Pinnas, for doing that.

[A]

He will get peltered. I mean, ultimately, to land your point, Thomas Tuka was hired to slay the ghost. These were the very ghosts that he was meant to slay that roared back and undid Humphrey, the team, the nation.

[C]

Yeah, it's. Again, it just, it comes back to this as, as Roy said, I. And I, I am, again, I am reluctant to criticize because I think that the amount of information that is at Thomas Tuchel's fingertips is so much greater than anything that I have in terms of how the players are doing, how they're feeling, like, which, you know, who knows, which of the attack left on the bench has had a stomach bug or has had terrible news from home or any number of things that go into a sense of, well, actually, these options that apparently available to me are not really available to me or I have, I have pretty good data that suggests this thing that seems very obvious will not work. But, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's just, it's classic England in a way. And it's, I think so often I will say that I think individually there's not a single England player that should. Should hold their. Hang their head in shame.

[B]

There's no one at fault individually, no

[C]

one was at fault. Everybody played very well. You know, Jed Spence, who's taken Peltier, had a great game. You know, Rogers comes, hasn't had as much World cup as he'd like to do, produces this incredible pass. Anthony Gordon has been up and down, scores the goal. Jordan Pickford produced A number of really, really good saves. It just. The choices that were made meant it just gave England the least possible chance of progressing from about the 55th minute.

[A]

I mean, the. The early headlines are in Independence headline, Thomas Tuchel lost his bottle and his pure cowardice ended England's World cup dream. Wayne Rooney. I think the decisions Thomas Tuchel made have cost us tonight. There will be more. That kind of answers the. If Gareth Southgate had done this, where we are, I mean, it is going to be a very hard inquest. Does he survive this?

[B]

My instinct would be yes. But then it's. It's hard to say because ultimately, by appointing tutor a German, the fa, the people who run football in England or running the national team were basically saying, we don't care about all the stuff that Southgate talked about. Legacy, culture, all that business. That's all we win and we will now and nonsense, effectively we are here to win now. He was paid. I spoke to a friend of the show, Tarek Panja.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said that Tootle was paid to win the World cup final. He's not done that.

[A]

Let's talk quickly about Andres Cantor so we can land this played he went off on really capped Argentina with a beautiful riff on Telemundo. I'm sure it's all over the Internet. He says this team represents the best of Argentine values. In five days, come what comes, these players will be eternal in Argentina. A group of footballers who reach the heights, who've reached Olympus and who today in Atlanta, Georgia, recalled the epics of the Azteca. They struggled, they trailed. But what this team has in abundance is heart. And with the heart and their football, they've returned to the final to defend their title. There's no other way in Argentina to win these games than without suffering. Post game, Giovanni La Celso went up to the fans and lifted this side. Las Malvinas, son Argentinos. The malvinas or argentinas.

[B]

FIFA's ban on flags about the Malvinas in the stadium, deeply effective.

[A]

They just get a yellow card for taking his shirt off, surely.

[B]

I think the point that Andres made is really valid. Argentina are now playing with house money. They've got back to the final. Spain are a process. Team Argentina are an individual moments team. It's a real interesting, really interesting clash of styles. But ultimately the way this ends is with Argentina's team flying back to Buenos Aires and getting a massive reception of a million people. Whether they win or lose.

[A]

I want to land this plane. You want to get on a plane, get on the bloody plane. So we've reached the part of the night we're going to look ahead to the final where we figure out what everyone suddenly believes by taking a look at calcium percentages and peak of the brains of football fans everywhere. Oh, my Lord. His life. Fluid scam below to sign up and trade on Kelsey. There's nowhere else to turn at this point. It could only be the final, the big one on Sunday. Spain and Argentina, we know after this ultramarathon, this is how it ends. They're going to be battling for the Copa das Copas. Spain 58% when Argentina with a 42% chance they will love those odds. We're going to dissect this one a little bit. Initial reaction though. What do you think of that? Who wins? All your face.

[B]

Have these people not been watching? I mean this ends with. I mean Argentina don't lose. They, they are magic. So I mean pay attention.

[A]

And then it ends with Messi missing a penalty and then just, oh, the Baggio ending.

[C]

Well, look, why don't I really block my copy book by going down the like It's a big conspiracy. The only reason why England didn't win is because FIFA wants him to win because he's part of the Illuminati and so they're going to win.

[B]

Do your own research, dude.

[C]

Think for yourself, Rog. You sheep.

[A]

Sheeple. I'm not a sheep.

[C]

You're a squirrel.

[A]

Stuff. Squirrel. Let's talk about this quickly. Spain away in true Atlanta form. They left France smothered and covered. They're fit. They played six of their seven games in in climate controlled state in which, you know, we, we've talked about. I mean that's an incredible advantage in terms of stamina, fitness, durability. This incredible statistic. You mean Lemal has never lost while playing for Spain in 32 games.

[B]

But also, as you said yesterday, the 13 out the last 14 is one finals are won by the team that plays first. Spain are a better team.

[A]

There's also that. But we now have a final that is a reflection of this photograph. Let's take this in one more time. Is this not incredible? I mean, two people in this photograph, both of them will face off in the World cup final. Do you think that's weird for me years later, do you think it's weird

[B]

for Leemon looking at a player he's playing against thinking you've given me a bath? Yeah, that is weird.

[C]

See my John Thomas.

[A]

We've all seen you John Thomas. Do you think it's weird I bet you Lemine loves it. This is, this is like. Did Isaac not like the way his, you know, his legacy is told in the Bible that he was taken onto a hilltop and almost sacrificed. These are legend. This is mythos.

[C]

This is mythos. This is World cup mythos.

[A]

Is this not superhero mythos?

[B]

If Spain win, Lemine should put Messi in some sort of plastic tub and recreate. And recreate it the other way around.

[A]

Where are they now?

[B]

That should be the passing of the battle.

[A]

I mean just, I think, I think Lamine will not be embarrassed because his bits aren't showing. Just knowing how my kids. He's a great math shot.

[C]

Little fat baby in that picture.

[B]

He's a really cute baby.

[C]

Him and his brother like two of the most adorable looking.

[B]

Who do you think baby Lemine or baby brother?

[C]

Really hard to start off.

[A]

Part of that is just a messy look.

[C]

So that is, that is a baby double pivot is hard to beat.

[A]

Doesn't it look beautiful? Brendan Hunt said it's not that big a deal. He had this theory, this is not that big a deal. Story behind this baby wins raffle to get a pick with Messi is a charity thing taken in Barcelona. The odds of him growing up to be a generational talent minute, the fact that they're going to play each other, what these are crazy mind bending realities. Brendan Hunt has a theory today that

[B]

Messi actually in that stage of his life was bathing a lot of babies.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Numbers wise it was quite likely thousand of them.

[A]

It's just what he did to unwind

[C]

after game see in the World cup final channel.

[A]

But the face, the face, the face on him. Does he not look like a man that just relaxes by bathing random strangers?

[B]

Baby, Yeah.

[A]

I feel the pressure of football. I found the chop662 of the chat says by transitive Cape Verde property Argentina will win 1 nil over Spain. Can I get the score prediction from both of you early on?

[B]

I mean, I, I think Spain are a better team. I think that its process, its development. It's the kind of industrialized football. I think Argentina win 21 with a late comeback.

[C]

To be perfectly honest, I. Yeah, I feel like all my predictions have been totally duff for this World cup. So having. I would say the head says Spain, but the heart says Argentina.

[A]

I do not know how you do this. This is just too close to call. Just Spain.

[B]

You made us, you made it.

[C]

You can't be like, if I don't answer the questions, he won't pay me.

[A]

I'm gonna Pay you. I've just heard what you do to people that challenge you on ferries and like getting into your garage which I am never going to be going into. It is too close to call. This is just a. It is a Cooper dust cope. It's a final finals. It's a team that are perfectly rational, perfectly organized that play beautiful idea of football that has been drilled into their footballers for years and years and years. Perfect harmony, perfect combination against a team that make no sense at all. Have almost no idea of football other than the desperate desire to fight. Stick a knife between their teeth and just get into it at close quarters and know if they can stick around and keep it close in those fight in the fourth quarter, throw up the fours just that they will want it more, that they will suffer more, that they will fight more for learnel, for Diego, for this legacy to be demigods, for their people to create magic as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, this is magic to me. What we've witnessed from Argentina in this tournament and that makes it too close to call. You tell us what you think in the chat. Email this meninblazer gmail.com we're gonna pop off. We've got to catch this plane.

[B]

We've got to get home.

[A]

Tomorrow we're taping with John Oliver. We're taping with John Stewart. Also taping with Brene Brown. We have so much beautiful, beautiful, beautiful content. Rory and I will be back Friday night live from the Michelob Ultra pit Side Club, 5:45pm Eastern Time. We're going to be with the great Michael Strahan. We'll stream that live on our YouTube live together. We're going to break down the weekend to come. Come be with us. You can be with us at the Michelob Ultra club. Come and give us a hug in person. And then we're going to be at Fanatics Fest over the weekend Saturday spite Lee and a couple of other characters I think. Is it Wemby? I'm making this up. And then we've got a match day live from Fanatics Fest before the final. Vizinia is going to be amongst the guests. We're going to be at Fanatics Fest. Life watch along in the final with the big hump with Ryan Reynolds with Low Baligan. Oh, all these people. This is a crazy cast actually.

[B]

You've got Flo Banigan.

[A]

Yeah, we got Tiffany Haddish, we got. I'm so excited.

[B]

Seth Rollins.

[A]

Yeah, I love Seth Rollins. And then that very good looking man on the bottom right.

[C]

Oh, that's I mean it. Really, I don't. You should probably have make that graphic and then drop a great big thing and then put me right at the bottom.

[A]

No, you look like you've just come off a boat with Steve Zizu. You look beautiful.

[B]

Is that Ryan Reynolds trying to look like Ryan Gosling?

[C]

I can neither confirm. I'm under very strict instructions. I cannot mention any other eyes.

[A]

We don't go there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There's only one Ryan Reynolds. I almost said Gosling by mistake there.

[B]

Does he play for the Rams or the Chargers? Nobody take me there.

[A]

He's gonna chop me up. This is Rog saying thank you very much on behalf of squirreling Harlan. He's been very quiet tonight. We're going to leave you with a moment from our matchday live this afternoon in Atlanta with the incredible Ludacris, who finally got to meet his own lifelong creative inspiration. Mr. James Horncastle spoke beautifully on the magic of Lionel Messi. He knew. He knew how this game was going to go, Luda. This man, I just say Lionel Messi, over the past two decades, has made so many memories for so many of us. James actually spoke beautifully about it, saying we should not take a second of watching what he does for granted. We'll see you in the final, Leo. This is Rod saying, big, big love and courage. Yeah. By the way, it's Wemby on Saturday. Here's Ludacris. You see when you see Lionel Messi, tenacity, man.

[D]

You know what I mean? Like, just resilience. I see determination. I see. You know, I see just a love and a passion for the game, man. And to be in. To be in it this long and to be doing it for so many years and to still see that level of competitiveness is what is refreshing, because people love this game and we don't take it for granted. And when you see somebody like that who makes that amount of money, but you could tell for him, he loves the game. You know what I mean? He'd be doing it if he wasn't paid that amount of money. That's what's refreshing to see to me.

[C]

Is that why you keep making records, Ludacris as well?

[D]

I keep making records because I have a love for music. Music is my number one.